In sport, teams go to great lengths to paint themselves as the underdog. It’s a tired old tactic designed to lull the other team into unwittingly going a bit easier on them, and it rarely works.

The same principle has been eagerly adopted by families in the wake of this week’s budget, and the decision to freeze the indexing of family payments to families earning in excess of $150,000. And to some extent, the tactic appears to be working.

The logic of families at or just above the $150k threshold is pretty simple, and can be loosely summarised like this: We’re not rich. In fact, we’re struggling to get ahead. Gimme gimme gimme!

That’s not how most of the papers see it today. Both The Australian and The Daily Telegraph have splashed with the Swan/Gillard “attack” on families, and no doubt the papers look similar where you live.

The stories make some valid points, not least the fact that housing costs in major cities like Sydney turn $150k into confetti quicker than a shredding machine – a point made on The Punch last week.

All the same, the thing about these self-professed “battlers” is that they never really look like their life is such a battle. Sure they work hard, and maybe commute long distances, but they always seem to have a house full of stuff, a nice backyard with a freshly-mown lawn, jewellery on their wrists and healthy-looking kids drinking orange juice.

The capping of “Family Tax Benefit B” means there will be 40,000 such families whose welfare lifeline is severed this year. No doubt there’ll be a few more along the way over the next four years, as their incomes edge over the frozen $150k limit.

For having the temerity to introduce this measure, Gillard and Swan have been labelled as class traitors straying from Labor’s True Believer values. Well, boo-bloody-hoo for the families. How many do you think are really going to hit the wall over this? My guess would be none.

Look, obviously life is expensive these days. Housing unaffordability aside, there are rising power costs, fuel costs, food costs, and a childcare system where it’s almost cheaper to employ a nanny if you’ve got more than two kids.

But life has always been expensive, hasn’t it?

As we all know, one of the legacies of the Howard years was the rise of the aspirational battlers. Well, many of those people have now battled, successfully aspired and risen. And you know what’s become of them? They’ve become whingers, that’s what.

Now that they enjoy a comfortable middle class lifestyle, they quite rightly continue to aspire yet further upwards, to get their kids in the best private schools, buy even larger house and more.

But they’re still trapped in the old mentality. They’re drawing a line under their current income, just as they did when they were genuine battlers a decade ago. And they’re again saying “help us, government. Take us another step up the socio-economic ladder.”

Well, at some point the help has to stop and it’s probably at the point where you still drive a Holden but it’s not a beat-up old Torana.

Swan and Gillard know this and so too, in their heart of hearts, do the families crying poor despite earning over 150k. But hey, you can’t blame them for trying. After all, the government has backed down on just about every other promise in three years in power.

224 comments

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    • fairsfair says:

      01:02pm | 12/05/11

      *standing ovation*

      I know that people are hurting - we all are. I don’t take issue with the cuts made by the govt but I do take issue with the fact they are pretending that they are being ‘tough’. If they weren’t so incompetent in managing the greater economy and ensureing affordable services, maybe less people would be hurting. 

      I find it laughable that people on $150k are “struggling” (those who work for themselves aside - perhaps some of your “income” props your business). If you are a run of the mill employee on $150k, you over capitalised. You probably bought too big a house or had one too many kids or made sure that second car was a 4wd. Thats not my problem, how bout you work out how to deal with that yourself.

    • Rick says:

      01:22pm | 12/05/11

      Its a bit like the family that John Hewson paraded out who couldn’t afford to go on their skiing holiday .......yep really struggling

    • persephone says:

      01:52pm | 12/05/11

      Christopher Pyne had a heartbreaker a couple of years ago about the cost of private violin lessons.

      And that was without factoring the cost of a Stradivarius….

    • fairsfair says:

      01:53pm | 12/05/11

      Yes, the Facebook explosion occurred yesterday. Amongst my group of friends the major complaints were coming from those people, who on closer investigation of their home page, just got back from Easter at the Coast and are counting down the months until their NZ holiday. One in particular had multiple snaps of Christian their new purebread giant cat or some wowserish breed - it only set them back about a grand and as its so cold in Brisbane you should see the totes hot jumpers they have bought it. Poor bastards, I really feel for them.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:12pm | 12/05/11

      Lol @fairsfair, your FB friends sound awesome grin

      Well, I have decided that I’ll be blowing a chunk of unaltered-by-the-budget money on Soundwave Revolution tickets.  Van Halen and Alice Cooper FTW! \m/

    • dovif says:

      02:49pm | 12/05/11

      The reason perople are upset is because

      The ALP is telling us we should tighten our belts. But the ALP had almost never managed the budget, Swannie cannot even remember the last time the ALP turned a surplus.

      The ALP has wasted money on the BER, Insulation, Fuel watch, refugee camp, grocery watch, Green loan etc

      Now that they are out of money, they want everyone (but themselves) to tighten the belt?

      ALP is a recession we had to have

    • Enrico says:

      01:03pm | 12/05/11

      And who first introduced us to the welfare nipple all those years ago?...  That’s right.  The Whitlam Labor Government.

    • nossy says:

      01:21pm | 12/05/11

      @Enrico - and who took you off it Enrico ? Julia Gillard ! HMAS Welfare has now been scuttled !  P.S. thanks for that one MarK - got a lot of mileage out of that one fella !

    • Rover says:

      01:05pm | 12/05/11

      The stories today reminded me of a hilarious one in the Oz a few years back when interest rates started rising under Howard. A battler from Double Bay, who complained that she was going to have to start doing her grocery shopping at Bondi Junction instead of Rose Bay.

      We all get it - everyone struggles to an extent. And I understand why families on $150k a year are feeling the pinch. I just object to the taxes of people earning half that going to support wealthier people’s life choices.

    • Markus says:

      01:26pm | 12/05/11

      Ha, that sounds like classic Kevin of Double Bay.
      I miss him. The recent article about cracking down on welfare and tough budgets would have been perfect for his critical analysis.

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      01:49pm | 12/05/11

      Could be worse.  Lots of liars saying they do it though

      Does anyone here remember the story on today tonight a couple of years back.

      A family was on and they were banging on about how unfair the banks are being and they’re going to foreclose on their house.

      Today Tonight went on about how the big evil banks are making them suffer. They can’t afford to eat!

      Then right at the end the last thing the woman said was “please help us save our investment property”.

    • AJ says:

      03:21pm | 12/05/11

      @Rover

      I agree that “struggling” families on $150k are struggling because of lifestyle choices.  Your example, albeit a poor one, an indication of one instance.

      But I disagree with people earning less, that says/thinks/insists that they are “supporting the wealthy”.  No they don’t.  When the “wealthy” receive the little government benefits they do, they essentially pay less tax, and by less I don’t mean like a family with 2 kids with an income of around $50k paying nett no tax less.  I mean they get a insubstantial tax break less.

      They are still paying net tax.  Some pay more than their fair share of the tax bill.  The more you earn, not only do you pay more tax, you are also taxed at a higher % of your income.  And this is the thing that is getting to them, they are paying a lot of tax, and now they are effectively being taxed more and more and more.  In my opinion, not equal, and certainly not fair.

    • Chewy says:

      03:30pm | 12/05/11

      I remember ACA or Today Tonight running a story about rising interest rates/mortgage stress and one of the ‘struggling’  families had to put their house on the market. Well my sympathy lasted about two seconds until seeing the for sale sign was Ray White Avalon, yes beach side AVALON!
      Pass me the violin….

    • TheRealDave says:

      04:28pm | 12/05/11

      I like those TT/ACA reports of ‘battlers’ getting turfed out and most times you see their gear in the house and there’s plasma TV’s, xbox’s, computers AND laptops, wireless routers, foxtel and I’m thinking ‘Sorry, sympathy is zero you moron, pay your bloody bills instead of buying luxury items’.

    • Voxpop says:

      05:58pm | 12/05/11

      AJ the more you earn the easier it is to find tax offsets and minimise the tax you pay.

    • Lisa H. says:

      12:59am | 13/05/11

      Voxpop, that is complete and utter rubbish. I know nothing of the tax breaks you are talking about. Not even Hogan found the mythical dodge of which you speak. The tax office is aggressive, and plays dirty.

      The taxation scheme is set up to hide the brutal reality from PAYGers…or so it seems to this small business person, who is responsible for ‘creating’, saving and then transferring all the PAYG into the govt’s ever-yawning coffers.

      The fact is, rich slash productive people subsidise poor people, not the other way around. Especially for the group that is on 150. Too poor to find any cushy tax dodges (if they ever existed) and too ‘rich’  to do anything but pay, pay, pay.

      Wouldnt it be great if business paid full wages, and you were legally responsible for transferring your own tax and super? I would love it because politics would start making more sense.

    • AJ says:

      01:06am | 13/05/11

      @Voxpop

      I don’t agree.  There are no “easy” ways to offset or minimise tax.

    • Amy in Oz says:

      08:58pm | 13/05/11

      In support of VoxPop, my dad worked at the Aust Tax Office until his retirement a few years ago. He worked in areas such as “High individual Wealth”, reviewing tax claims. He holds his Masters in Taxation Law. He too is of the opinion that the rich do not pay anywhere near their % of tax that their pay bracket asks, but are able to minimise their contributions (though they still do pay their fair share, in his opinion), because they have the means to hire very good tax accountants to work their assests, salary packages, etc to their advantage.

    • Wickerman says:

      01:11pm | 12/05/11

      Hear hear!

      They should get rid of all middle class welfare. Welfare should be used to people in genuine need not relative or perceived need. To compensate drop the income tax rates slightly. Taxpayers should stop paying for lifestyle choices of others. $150K & on struggle street? - STFU.

      BTW, the articles in the Australian: most of the commenters on the article where comments were allowed, are condeeming the couple featured. Especially there was a 30K car in the driveway - whinging leeches.

    • Ms Briz says:

      01:33pm | 12/05/11

      “Taxpayers should stop paying for lifestyle choices of others.”  I agree. So why should families on incomes over $150k not get supported in their choice to have children, but those on lower incomes do?  No one forces you to have kids. If you can’t afford 3 kids, have 2. If you can’t afford 2 have 1.  If you can’t afford 1, don’t have any.

    • Tim says:

      01:40pm | 12/05/11

      Exactly right.
      No family on $150K deserves any handouts for government.
      But then again neither does the family on $80K or $100K.
      We have to stop the entitlement mentality in this country that the government should look after your every whim.
      Welfare is for people in genuine need, it should be a safety net. It’s not so a family can buy a new car or give little Johnny an iPhone.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      01:43pm | 12/05/11

      ‘‘Taxpayers should stop paying for lifestyle choices of others.’’ 
       
      Could not agree more, especially when they are not even Australian. Stop immigration or at least stop that stoopid Family Reunion scheme which allows them to bring the whole tribe over, working or not, and have the long-suffering Aussie taxpayer pick up the bill.

    • Kika says:

      01:55pm | 12/05/11

      Actually Tony, the reunited family scheme doesn’t work as easily as you think. They still need to pass their rules in making entry on their own merit anyway even before they are considered for the reunited scheme. For example, my husband has most of his family back overseas. They would all love to live in Australia, but we are realistic and because they wouldn’t be given Visas it would be a waste of time trying. It’s not so easy.

    • Ando says:

      02:17pm | 12/05/11

      Ms Briz,
      Unfortunatley at some point we have to support the kids whose parents cant afford them. Maybe it should be lower than $150K but those above dont need it.

    • Adam says:

      02:27pm | 12/05/11

      ‘‘Taxpayers should stop paying for lifestyle choices of others.’’

      Exactly. And the biggest lifestyle choice is having kids. Paying for other people to have kids, get family benefits, take paid parental leave, etc, etc would be number 1 on my list. It makes me sick to think we subsidise bogans, bums and underachievers to have kids, yet effectively penalise the high achievers of our society when they do the same. Personally, I know what type of people I want being born into our society and it certainly isn’t the first group.

      We should be getting rid of all handouts, lowering taxes and implementing a flat tax rate.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      02:28pm | 12/05/11

      Kika
       
      I’m interested in this. Why is it then, that all the recent illegal immigrants subsequently claiming asylum status, are young men who promptly send for their families when given permanent residency? For every so-called asylum seeker, we seem to finish with up to 20 welfare recipients.

    • Kika says:

      02:38pm | 12/05/11

      Tony - Obviously I can’t speak for others. Isn’t it normal for them to want their families to live with them? I can only speak for my husband and I. We are fully aware that some of his family would be on welfare forever if they came here. They ask us constantly to ‘sponsor’ them, but we dodge around it because we know they wouldn’t receive a Visa because he would be on welfare forever. Also, you have to prove that they have no other way to support themselves back in their home country, and that you have no other family members who can support you. The ones who ask us to ‘sponsor’ them (like it’s that easy) do have other means of support, so it would be a waste to apply because it would be rejected.  There is one brother who we would like to bring out. He has a degree, well educated but he is young, his mother is still back in their home country and his brothers too. He needs to prove he would qualify for a Visa on his own let alone relyign solely on the reunited Visa to get here.

      A lot of people coming here assume that because you live in a western country life is easy and we all have money trees growing in our backyard. That might be why they assume once here they can support their familie easily. It might be that they soon realise that we aren’t all Mr Moneybags’s and you have to work just as hard to earn a good wage so that’s probably why they end up on welfare. But they still need to prove that those they bring out on the family-reuinted visas that they have no other support back in their country other than the one who lives in Australia.

    • Kika says:

      02:40pm | 12/05/11

      Also… I don’t know why try coming to Australia. The biggest and easiest loophole to get into Australia is a NZ passport.

    • AJ says:

      08:25pm | 12/05/11

      Kika and Tony, let me help you out.  Tony is talking about humanitarian visa and you are referring to inter alia skilled immigrants.  Two totally different types of immigrants, two completely different set of rules.  Just by the way, skilled immigrants on 457 (temporary) visas do not qualify for even 1c of Centrelink support, by that I mean not even assistance with childcare, etc.

    • Brett says:

      02:54pm | 13/05/11

      Hell put the cut off at 90k, then only the true strugglers get the money and the rest have to cut off their foxtel and live where they can afford it. My family earns over 150k, whilst I don’t have kids, I still think this is a good move. If I choose to buy a $1 million house and put myself on struggle street then that is my choice, not the governments to have to care about. Also scrap the baby bonus and paid maternity leave. Paid maternity leave only hurts wome in the workforce anyway. And lastly baby bonus and any other welfare should only be paid to those that are not on the dole. Only those that work and pay tax should have this money given to them if it is kept.

    • Sensible says:

      01:13pm | 12/05/11

      I agree, I blame Howard and his squandering of money on middle class welfare for this sense of entitlement these young-uns have developed.

    • dd says:

      02:15pm | 12/05/11

      I blame Howard for his steady hand keeping Australia on such a straight and safe course that we thought would never diverge, never hit the reefs,our boat would never sink. We grew overconfident and decided to change captains,hoping for a more luxurious, fun way of life with less responsibility and more whoopee! Now our country is reeling from trouble to trouble,we are being invaded by opportunists while our beloved Australia is in dangerous waters and the skipper can’t read the charts.May god help us. SOS. Mayday!We need a new election…fast.

    • Sensibility says:

      02:53pm | 12/05/11

      OMG
      We’re being invaded by Hordes.
      Quick, go sign up to fight the war on opportunists.

    • ALP's fault says:

      03:30pm | 12/05/11

      I blame this on the $100 billion in debt that this incompetant government has accumulated in just 3 year, in the greatest piece of economic vandalism in the history of Australia

      Interest each year on the $100 billion is about $7 billion, which can be easily used to pay for a lot of the cuts.

      If the government had managed the fraud that was the BER and Green loans, the excessive payments of the BER, spend biilions on the failed border protection and will spend billions more to fix it.

      Quite simply it is this governent’s fault

    • Alannah says:

      11:23pm | 13/05/11

      @ Sensible, How is it Howards fault? I blame Kevin Rudd for our debt, after all he handed out so much money in such a short amount of time. The first bonus was $1000 per child just before xmas the year he was voted in and then, it was another $350 per child for kids inprep to year 12. As well as $900 for every adult yep that is why our country is in debt.

      As for the $350 per child my daughter was given this money and was still in DAYCARE, i rang centrelink and told them she’s not at school do you want your money back? They said NO keep it because her 4th birthday fell before feb the 4th the cut off date that year Her birthday was early january, a lot of kids would have recieved the money and still been in daycare.

      That money $350 should have only been paid to kids who had a birthday before the 30th of june 2009 my daughters birthday was 6 months after the school cut off to go into prep, she did prep in 2010.

    • Rev says:

      01:13pm | 12/05/11

      1) Keep the family tax benefit
      2) Abolish the set-top box scheme
      3) Legislate that some of the family tax benefit is for the kids to give (and install!) a set top box for grandma.
      4) Spend the rest on beers.

    • Bitten says:

      01:23pm | 12/05/11

      My initial post is too damn long - you, sir, are hired!

    • Matt says:

      01:51pm | 12/05/11

      Bitten - Your initial post was brilliant…
      This one up there is pretty good too.

    • Bitten says:

      01:13pm | 12/05/11

      Irrespective of where the line is drawn, it remains a fact that the policies of this country firmly discourage hard work and commitment and effort. Bizarrely in response to the protests made by $150K plus income earners, people on welfare have repeatedly suggested, ‘Try living on welfare if it’s such a burden being rich.’ Two issues: firstly, respectfully, the complaint is not about being ‘rich’, the complaint is about being abused for striving to succeed in a schizophrenic society where people are alternatively encouraged to pursue success, then vilified for attaining it. Secondly, if all the higher income earners threw the towel in tomorrow and joined their ‘battler’ brethren on the breadline as those brethren snidely suggest, there would be no taxes to pay for said brethren’s bread. So I’m really not sure what the welfare recipients actually mean to achieve when making this suggestion.

      No one disputes welfare is a necessary support in a civilised society - the fact remains however, that there is much welfare in Australia’s society that is not genuine. And before anyone strops indignantly about how all welfare recipients are just hard done by and I couldn’t possibly know anything about it because I reek of ‘wealth’ (eau de dosh, perhaps?), let me say first:  it is as ridiculous a statement to suggest all welfare recipients are bludgers, as it is to suggest that all welfare recipients are genuinely incapable of supporting themselves - as much as it might pain people to have to acknowledge, the truth is that a middle ground does exist: some people while capable of making a contribution, are lazy and simply don’t want to. Naturally this attitude unfortunately undermines the case for true welfare recipients.

      Let me say secondly, that it is also ridiculous to make any assumption about anyone on the grounds of their opinion on a matter: opinions informed by experience on the matter of welfare may not always agree, but they remain nonetheless, informed by experience.

      FYI, no I am not one of those people the target of this article: I do not earn $150K but neither do I begrudge those who do. I do not support vilification of those who are this nation’s source of income. I don’t believe that there should be middle class welfare (such as the baby bonues or first home buyers grant - seriously, are you an adult and capable of making your own choices and handling resultant consequences in life, or are you still an infant?). I do however believe that those who strive for and attain success should be entitled to the rewards of that success and from those rewards, they can make their own independent decisions about how to pay for such things as healthcare, babies and housing.

    • Kika says:

      01:22pm | 12/05/11

      Yes but shouldn’t there be a limit for those who have attained success and earn a decent income to receive government benefits for things they would have paid for themselves anyway? Back in the olden days people used to save and pay for things themselves and weren’t reliant on ridiculous things like FHOG’s and Baby bonuses.

      Yes, we all pay tax. But we pay tax to run the country. We don’t pay tax in expectation to receive some of it back. Well, not my generation anyway. We won’t ever see an old age pension.

    • Knemon says:

      01:40pm | 12/05/11

      @ Bitten - “if all the higher income earners threw the towel in tomorrow and joined their ‘battler’ brethren on the breadline” - yeah right…like that’s going to happen, are you serious or just delusional?

      I’ve got no problem with what my fellow Australians earn but anyone that earns 150K or more and has a whinge about this is greedy but more so IMO very un-Australian. 

      Gillard finally got something right…as for the LNP saying no to this latest budget on the grounds of simply opposing, wrong, you can’t do that - they should have to offer some alternative option, which we all know they can’t -  they cannot just say we won’t accept something without giving reasons why.

      The pressure is now on Dr NO to put up or shut up.

    • Tim says:

      01:43pm | 12/05/11

      Kika,
      you’re right.
      and that limit should be much, much lower than it is today.

    • Bitten says:

      02:12pm | 12/05/11

      Kika, absolutely I agree with abolition of middle class welfare - I don’t support it at all (sorry not all that clear in the first post). The baby bonus and first home buyers grant are two definite unacceptables to me.

      I do however understand where the sense of entitlement of people who are earning higher incomes comes from: from the disconnect from on the one hand, being vigorously encouraged to pursue success and work hard, and on the other hand, having their earnings ripped off them with an accompanying sneer by politicians as though their earnings aren’t in fact earnings at all, as though this country is a bastion of inherited wealth and divine right. Which of course, it isn’t. But it is much more politically palatable to justift wealth redistribution if the media and politicians pretend that anyone on $xyz did not earn their money from hard work, in fact came by it via unfair or arbitrary means (such as by birth) and therefore are villains for the electorate to demean and abuse.

      In short: people should be allowed to reap the rewards of hard work. Out of those rewards, they should be required to pay for all their individual choices - be it to have a family, buy a house or whatever. Hope this is clearer!

    • Bitten says:

      02:38pm | 12/05/11

      @Knemon: That is an odd thing for you to take issue with. The suggestion that the higher income earners join battlers on the breadline is not one made by me, as I think my post clearly points out.  This suggestion (facetiously made, no question there) is made by those on welfare of some variety crowing at the concerns of higher income earners. You may wish to check out the Money Stuff blog on news.com.au about this very subject - some very bizarre and illogical suggestions being made by those on welfare in thorough dismissal of any higher income earners.

      Two points:

      1. No, I certainly don’t think this will come to pass.

      2. Were it to come to pass, the people who would be disadvantaged would be those currently receiving welfare - that is, those same persons that are making this suggestion.  For the obtuse in the room, if no one is earning high income, where will all that lovely lovely welfare come from, exactly?

      As I have already said, I don’t support middle class welfare. But I don’t support vilification of the middle class either. They receive conflicting messages from their political representatives - on the one hand: work hard, earn lots! And on the other: what’s this, you have $xyz?! And that person over there has less than that! An outrage, sir! Hand that over, you idle swine, you waster, you don’t deserve your money!

      (I love a faux british accent when I type *sigh*)

    • dovif says:

      03:13pm | 12/05/11

      Knemon

      I see your point, yeah Gillard finally got something right. But it is the getting to here part that is the problem

      The Government had stuffed up so often and by so much money, that we did not need to be here in the first place.

      the BER, insulation, Green loan, sending cheques to stimilate the US/UK economy,

      Without all the stuff ups, we would not need to tighten the budget in the first place

    • Kika says:

      03:32pm | 12/05/11

      Bitten - but all of those things are optional. You can live and survive without buying a house or having children. Why should tax payers fund your lifestyle? It’s unlikely that your kids will be destitute and on the street if you don’t receive the bonuses, so why are you entitled to receive those bonuses just because you feel entitled to it?  Why can’t you just save your cash to fund these things like people used to instead of relying on the government?

      This is my concern. When you ‘dole’ cash out to people, people don’t value the purpose for why they’ve received the cash. I support a system which supports the purpose (i.e. Indigenous welfare services rather than just a dole payment, work for the dole, land releases over FHOG and paid parental leave over a baby bonus, ) other than just a flat cash payment.

    • Bitten says:

      04:03pm | 12/05/11

      Sorry Kika, I’m being obtuse - once again, I do not support middle class welfare. At all. As I have said, I do however understand where the attitude comes from. What can society expect if we punish hard work and reward laziness? Um…can you guess?

      Middle class welfare could (and should) be easily discarded if we as a society agreed that effort and hard work should be truly rewarded - by letting people keep the significantly large percentage of their earnings - so from a policy perspective, lower tax outright. From their earnings (*not welfare handouts, but their earnings that they have control over and they get to keep) it is then THEIR responsibility to make and pay for their choices in life accordingly - as you yourself suggest. So no, you do not get a handout to pay for having a baby - but you have your earnings in your pocket to pay for it. You do not get a grant to help you buy a house - you have your earnings in your pocket to pay for it. You do not get welfare - you get control over your income. It is up to YOU what you earn and what you EARN is your reward.

      I think we agree - I’m just not expressing it well, so I do beg your pardon!

    • Chris says:

      09:27pm | 12/05/11

      Bitten, if you could express what you are saying any better I would be surprised. Quite clear and easy to understand. I think Kika needs to take an extra second to actually read what you have written.

    • Chris L says:

      10:23pm | 12/05/11

      I think my disagreement, Bitten, is what vilification? If you’re talking about a few comments on blogs and news sites then you should have a read of what those on $150K and over are saying about everyone else.

      If one should speak in favour of the removal of this welfare you get called a bludger who feeds at the teat of the real worker. Oddly I get no welfare myself, maybe I could it I tried but I don’t need it, so such accusations are often also untrue it seems.

      If the high earners are being villified don’t worry about them, they’re quite capable of dishing it out as well as anyone.

    • Bitten says:

      09:29am | 13/05/11

      @Chris L: I was going to post something in depth but to be honest, I’m waiting for mega exam results today and can’t barely sit down from stress, so I know that unfair and inaccurate assumptions and accusations are made and flow in BOTH directions. Neither is justified, as inaccuracy is profoundly irritating to anyone of intelligence. However, I find that the disconnect between stereotype and reality is far wider when one is considering the $150K plus population than when one is considering the welfare population -  it is just far too politically incorrect to point out that while there are those who genuinely cannot support themselves, there are also those (and there are many of them, let’s stop the childish ‘closing-of-eyes’ and the fingers in ears “Lalalala, I’m not listening!”) who are perfectly capable of making a contribution and paying their way - they just don’t want to. Witness the attacks on the current government for DARING to suggest that people who are out of work on welfare should, I don’t know, maybe be called upon to prove that they are actually actively looking for work?

      It’s far easier politically to attack the ‘rich’ - and why use that term? Why not ‘higher income earners’? Could it be because the term ‘rich’ gives the impression of idleness and arbitrarily bestowed wealth? Is that true here? No. These people are ‘earning’ - how awkward. How much more difficult to justify wealth redistribution when we are taking money, not from some millionaire lord born into wealth from generations of aristocracy, but from ordinary people who are working hard.

      And yes, you are quite right, I suspect that those on $150K don’t need someone to look out for them - I just get annoyed by cheap political and media shots. It’s so freakin’ lazy and designed to feed into people’s prejudices. Witness the slanging, no?

    • Fiona says:

      01:56pm | 13/05/11

      My husband and I fall into the (ever so slightly above) $150K category.  We both live and work full time in Sydney and pay very large taxes which pays for very large welfare benefits to others.  We have 2 children in a mid priced local daycare.  We receive no family tax benefits.  We don’t own a house or a car.

      After we pay for rent, childcare, the costs of getting to work, the electricity, the gas, the water and the groceries we’d actually be financially better off if I stayed home and claimed family benefits instead.

      - Childcare costs rise every other week
      - Rental costs in Sydney are incredible (mortgages are just as bad)
      - Train, bus or car - they’re all expensive to run and getting more expensive
      - Groceries have skyrocketed, whether due to the recent disasters or just plain greedy people
      - Power costs go up and up and up

      Maybe instead of trying to save some pennies here, a few dollars there the government should have a good long hard look at how it spends millions and millions on irrelevant programs like chaplaincy in schools (whatever happened to the separation of church and state? If I want my kids to know about religion I’ll CHOOSE to take them to church and send them to a religious school).

      Also, I find it amazing when people complain about people who’s “lifestyle choice” includes choosing to have kids. If we didn’t choose to have kids who do you think is going to pay the taxes to fund your welfare benefits when you get older?

    • TracyH says:

      02:20pm | 13/05/11

      Bitten: I am your number one fan smile...You express yourself very clearly, with wit and common sense smile. It beats me why people can’t understand you!!!! Keep it up! LOVE the ‘faux british’ written accent wink

    • Bitten says:

      04:22pm | 13/05/11

      Why thank you smile As it turns out, my results aren’t coming out today so I’m going to put my head through my desk now.

    • john hill says:

      08:16am | 14/05/11

      Why would anyone on 150k even consider the job seekers allowance attractive? I’m not on welfare, but looking at Centrelinks website, the job seekers allowance is only something in the order of $250 per week (though it looks like rates can vary). That’s only 13k per year. So why should anyone want to work hard to get 150k when they could get 13k and only have to do work for the dole two days out of every week? Well I can think of 137,000 reasons why someone may want to work for their money if they are capable. And we are talking only in terms of dollars here. I can’t imagine being long term unemployed or out of education, but I’m guessing that I would feel envious of those who have jobs or universities to go to. Even forgetting the extra income, I would want a job like everyone else. But not forgetting the extra income, and knowing how far $250 pere week would get me, I would certainly be pretty motivated to be employed. And certainly if I was making 150k per year, the one question I would NOT be asking myself would be “Why should I work when I can get $250 per week just by meeting my work for the dole obligation?”. If 150k isn’t enough for you to know why you work, then the problem may not be with how everyone else sees 150k compared to 13k, but with how you see it. 13k per year wouldn’t even pay a quarter of my households yearly rent, I can literally not imagine what life would be like on such a low income.

    • Kika says:

      01:15pm | 12/05/11

      Ant, I couldn’t agree with you more. Apparently my husband and my income are below average! If $75K grand is the average income these days we are comparitive paupers! But the thing is, we aren’t. We both work good jobs, we recently bought a really nice new car on a payment system we can easily afford, we don’t own a home yes, but we rent, pay our bills and still have left over cash to save comfortably. Maybe it’s because we don’t have children. But still, we are planning to have kids in the near future and are saving for that.

      Maybe we’re old school and believe you get what you save for. Yeah sure, the paid parental leave is a great idea and will help us a lot in getting be back to work, but anything else is just superfluous I think.

      If you can’t live comfortably on a combined income of $150K I reckon you’ve got issues with your budget!

    • Johnno says:

      01:23pm | 12/05/11

      What I want to see is how much tax the >$150K have payed against the benefits received.

    • fairsfair says:

      01:35pm | 12/05/11

      Its probably a pretty good ratio. They drive on broken roads, go to crap hospitals when they are sick, their kids go to school, they might have also gone to uni. If they get sick they could go on a disability pension, if they lose their high paying job the dole will help them out. Lucky me, I am not even on 1/3 that they are on and I too pay for all this luxury.

      Welfare is breaking this country, while the services that we are all entitled to crumble.

    • Kika says:

      02:07pm | 12/05/11

      If you don’t agree that tax goes towards the greater good of our country, go live in Monaco or something. You can then live happily with no tax and fill your own pot holes in, pay all your doctor’s fees and receive nothing back, if you have kids you’ll have to pay their fees in whole and build your own roads and hospitals etc.

    • Markus says:

      02:47pm | 12/05/11

      Be careful what you wish for, Kika.
      As higher income earners become expected to pay more and more tax to subsidise the poor, the retired, the families, the property investors, the—well pretty much everyone else in the country, on top of paying off the $100 billion in government debt, I seriously foresee younger singles/couples/families not eligible for anything just giving the big middle finger and taking their money elsewhere.

    • Kika says:

      03:35pm | 12/05/11

      Markus - Funny you say that. I already have plans on moving to NZ in a few years!

    • Markus says:

      04:17pm | 12/05/11

      And I’ve been seriously weighing up buying a nice little 3 beddy in Oregon (in cash, of course).
      I know the job market over there is abysmal, but with no need to worry about rent, mortgage or ridiculously jacked up costs on goods, I could even work at Walmart and still be set for life raspberry

    • DaveinPerth says:

      09:34pm | 12/05/11

      @fairsfair - Have you driven on Perth roads? They’re pretty good. In my experience German and Swiss roads are better, but apart from that, where do you go to get better roads ?

    • Shane from Melbourne says:

      01:25pm | 12/05/11

      It is almost a law of nature that people’s lifestyle rises to match their income. When some of that income support is withdrawn by the government then of course they are going to cry in anguish; they’re addicted to that lifestyle. They don’t want to make sacrifices, budget etc. The problem was that welfare was never meant to be an income support to the well off middle to upper classes. That is the great perversion of the welfare system by John Howard and it will ultimately destroy Australia just like it destroyed Greece, Spain and other European countries.

    • Greg says:

      02:38pm | 12/05/11

      Shane from Melbourne you have obsession with perpertuating this inaccurate accusation about John Howard introducing a middle class welfare state. That seems to be the biggest perversion here, your personal obsession with Howard
      You refuse to acknowledge any form of welfare state before the Howard Government. You must have a fetish

    • Craig says:

      03:12pm | 12/05/11

      Of course, there was middle class welfare before Howard.  It’s just that he turned handing money out to middle-class “battlers” into an artform.

    • Shane from Melbourne says:

      03:43pm | 12/05/11

      @Greg- Actually I hate Gillard equally for expanding middle class welfare state through the paid parental leave scheme and an extra $4000 for parents of teenagers. But lets not quibble- I HATE all forms of middle class welfare. Welfare should be confined to the genuinely unemployed, the genuinely disabled and pensioners. People don’t qualify for any of those categories? Then tough luck.

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:27pm | 12/05/11

      No-one is struggling when they’re earning $150k. I don’t care how many kids you’ve got or how big your mortgage is, you’re not struggling.

      The kids are your own choice so don’t ask society to pay for them- it’s not like they are adding anything to society, if we need a bigger population then we can import fully trained migrants who are ready to work and pay taxes.

      The mortgage is also your own choice. Move to a cheaper house and sell the McMansion.

      Similar to electricity and water. Stop using so much and you’ll stop paying so much.

      Stop having take-away food and cook it yourself: it’ll be cheaper and healthier.

      I have no respect for people that whine about the outcomes of their own life decisions. Even less respect when you earn 6 figures and whine about things.

    • Ms Briz says:

      01:35pm | 12/05/11

      “The kids are your own choice so don’t ask society to pay for them” - that applies at all income levels.

    • Matt says:

      01:37pm | 12/05/11

      I hear (read) this term around here a lot… what is a McMansion?

    • Kika says:

      01:53pm | 12/05/11

      Mr Briz - we give people on low income (i.e. much, much less than $150K) a help with their kids for the welfare OF the kids. No one wants to see kids going to school with no lunch, no shoes or clean uniforms. It’s whether the parents actually use the money for the kids is the problem.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      02:20pm | 12/05/11

      From The Age today:
      Around 1.9 million families receive family tax benefit A. Treasury believes that in 2012-13 31,000 will lose the benefit.
      Around 1.6 million families receive family tax benefit B. Treasury believes 9000 of them will lose the benefit.
      Some 700 families will lose the baby bonus and just 17 families will lose paid parental leave.

    • Greg says:

      02:27pm | 12/05/11

      McMansions are what inner-city apartment-living pompous leftists call the houses in the suburbs where the people they look down on and lecture live,

    • AFR says:

      02:39pm | 12/05/11

      Matt, a McMansion is a massive house on a small block of land in the middle of nowhere, that looks like every other one in the street. Bogans move into them, overextend themselves finanancially, complain about how there is no public transport, and why their 200 square house costs $1000 a quarter to power, and ask why the goverment is not helping them because they are battling. This reference might help: http://thingsboganslike.com/2010/02/02/mcmansions/

      In my day we had a term for houses that looked like the rest in the street - Housing Commission.

    • Markus says:

      02:55pm | 12/05/11

      Matt, if Greg’s definition didn’t quite paint the picture for you, see AFR for case in point.

    • Greg says:

      02:55pm | 12/05/11

      AFR is the proof of my definition of a McMansion

    • Tubesteak says:

      03:21pm | 12/05/11

      AFR: Thanks greatly for that reference and explanation. TBL is a great blog!

      Greg: while I do live in an apartment in the inner-city and resent the bogans who live vacuous lives of pointless consumerism who complain about living costs and all the other ill-effects of their unexamined lifestyles I am not a leftist. I’m more of an economic rationalist centrist.

    • AFR says:

      03:32pm | 12/05/11

      What part of my description is inaccurate?
      Huge House, too big for the block? - check
      In a suburb in the middle of nowhere (usually with a silly name ending in “Gardens”), with little public transport? - check
      All houses look EXACTLY the same? - check
      Filled with people mortgaged to the eyeballs, thanks to middle class welfare? - check
      To become suburban ghettos once the shine wears off? - Check.

    • Greg says:

      04:05pm | 12/05/11

      Err ...well…how about all of your description is inaccurate

      Huge House, too big for the block? - check   WHAT? PEOPLE CAN’T LIVE IN A BIG HOUSE IF THEY CHOOSE NOW?
      In a suburb in the middle of nowhere (usually with a silly name ending in “Gardens”), with little public transport? - check   IF IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWWHERE IT WOULDN’T BE A SUBURB. THIS JUST EXEMPLIFIES YOUR SNEERING SNOBBISH TONE
      All houses look EXACTLY the same? - check   NOW YOU ARE JUST BEING SILLY. WHY DON’T YOU HAVE A GO AT PEOPLE LIVING IN APARTMENTS THEN
      Filled with people mortgaged to the eyeballs, thanks to middle class welfare? - check   THEY MAY BE MORTGAGED TO THE EYEBALLS BUT NOT THANKS TO MIDDLE CLASS WELFARE
      To become suburban ghettos once the shine wears off? - Check.  WHAT SUBURD WOULD THAT BE? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO PLACES OR ARE YOU JUST MAKING IT UP

    • Tubesteak says:

      04:55pm | 12/05/11

      reg, think about what you’re saying.

      So people should always be entitled to live as they choose and the government should develop policies that pave the way? No. Government should create policies that encourage efficiencies.

      Big houses are inefficient (much energy and construction costs which is bad for the environment).

      Houses in the suburbs are also inefficient. Not only does it create urban spawl which requires more money for roads, sewerage, transport etc etc etc but it is environmentally unsound, not to mention socially unsound as these people are literally prisoners of their suburb because it doesn’t have the transport options ($$$$) available. This is what creates ghettos. People can’t afford to travel to training (uni, TAFE, apprenticeships) so they forego those opposrtunities. This creates a downward spiral.

      Someone mortgaged to their eyeballs are the first to cry poor. But it’s of their own choosing. The government gives them a handout to buy their vote. It used to be that you couldn’t borrow more than 3 times your income and you had to have a 20% deposit. Now it isn’t. Bad government policy.

    • Stephen says:

      06:54am | 13/05/11

      Matt, in England we used to call them “Jam Butty” estates. These were estates where people purchased houses they couldn’t afford and then had to cut their living costs and work longer to cope. Eating “Jam Butties” (Jam sandwiches) to meet the mortgage repayments was a humourous way of describing the situation. I reckon “McMansions” are the Australian version of the Jam Butty estate, financially over extended people living on take away food. Or maybe it is these people have to work such long hours to afford the mortgage repayments that they do not have time to prepare their own food.  Mind you, with the cost of take away food being what it is, this seems like false economy.

    • Greg says:

      11:34am | 13/05/11

      Thats what Tubesteak would like. People not having the choice in their lives but being dictated to by Tubesteak (who would be the mouthpiece of any government). If people want to live in small apartments in the city that is their choice. If people want to live in bigger houses in the city that is their choice. Energy use and construction costs are by-products of a civilized societies and you have no evidence on whether apartment blocks or houses are more efficient. But then that’s what Tubesteak you would like, to plan a society and plan people’s lives. Make people live an “EFFICIENT” life. You must love ants. And you conveniently ignore the fact there are ghettoes in inner cities all over the world. But then you wouldn’t mock them would you, they’re either ethnic or indigenous. Its the folk out in the suburbs with they’re so called McMansions you people feel comfortable with mocking.

    • KH says:

      01:29pm | 12/05/11

      I would love to be earning $150K per year, and I know a lot of people who would.  But gee, we just have to get by on less than half that.  I can’t believe the shameless greed some people have, to be claiming they ‘need’ welfare when they have that much money.  I think its a disgrace that these people were ever getting any welfare in the first place.  Welfare should only be for those who can’t work, are out of work or have done their lifetimes worth of work.  It is for people in need, not people in greed.  It is to cover living expenses, not luxuries.  Once upon a time people were embarrassed to go to a place like Centrelink, or claim a handout.  Now they seem to think its something you should just get when you turn 18.  Well bollocks to that.  The government has done the right thing - for once.

      Anyone who comes here and complains they can’t live comfortably on $150K per year - you should be ashamed of yourself.  There are plenty of people who are managing on far less.

    • Matt says:

      01:45pm | 12/05/11

      A ‘combined’ income of 150K really isn’t that much or hard to achieve… seriously… If you can manage to hold down the same job for at least 5 years you should be on 75k.

    • persephone says:

      01:56pm | 12/05/11

      Matt

      oh dear.

      I think you’ve just demonstrated how out of touch with the ‘real world’ you are.

      Either that, or you’ve gratuitously insulted most of your readership.

      Most Australians didn’t have the priviledged upbringing that you must have had.

    • Tim says:

      02:04pm | 12/05/11

      So KH,
      you agree that you don’t deserve any handouts/welfare either or is your rant only against those evil rich folk?

    • Greg says:

      02:19pm | 12/05/11

      persephone

      oh dear

      just making up accusations and pretending they are facts again

      How do we know you’re not out of touch?
      How do we know that you know anything about the real world?
      How do you know that most of the readership is insulted?
      How do you even know that Matt had a priviledged upbring?

    • KH says:

      02:31pm | 12/05/11

      Tim - I guess I take after my mother, who has practically had to be dragged into Centrelink for a pension - finally retiring at the age of 72 although she hasn’t been well and really shouldn’t be working any more.  She just couldn’t go in there - she came from a generation where welfare was not something to be proud of.  I don’t think I could ever take a handout when I really don’t need it, when you analyse the situation.  Being single, with no children I pay my taxes, and get no breaks.  I have no dispute with that - I don’t have a mortgage, but I do have savings, a nice (albeit rented) home, a car, eat fresh food, and go on overseas trips at least every two years - and I earn less than half of $150k.  People can live within their means if they don’t buy every iGadget that comes out on the market, drive oversized vehicles, buy houses in areas they really can’t afford to live in/McMansions, drop a couple of hundred on a night out and run up massive credit card debts to own things they don’t really need.  You can’t have a champagne lifestyle on a beer salary, but there is nothing wrong with beer.  It might be plainer, but it does the job - shelter, food, and some clothing.  That is all you really need, if you think about it.  Everything else is just want.

    • Eddie says:

      02:35pm | 12/05/11

      @ Matt.  Unlike some others I don’t that you are far off the mark with your comments.  The problem is that it also requires some hard work.  You and I understand what hard work is to achieve something, show your worth and be rewarded for it.  Many others feel as though they just have to turn up and they will given the money.  So no $75k is not so far out of reach but perhaps a little too far out of reach for those not prepared to give it a go.

      @ persephone
      What exactly does a privelidged upbringing have to do with how much I earn?

    • persephone says:

      02:46pm | 12/05/11

      Wasn’t aware I was talking about you at all, Eddie.

      Why did you think I was?

      Hint: the top of the post says “Matt”. That means the comment was aimed at “Matt”. Don’t see why anyone not named “Matt” would think it would have anything to do with them.

      But if you and Matt want to portray anyone on this site who isn’t earning $150 k a year as a lazy bludger, go right ahead.

      It’ll win you an awful lot of fans.

    • Ando says:

      02:50pm | 12/05/11

      Eddie and Matt,
      Not everyone can earn over $75,000 it is simply is impossible . If everyone was on that how would business survive. The only reason you can earn over $150,000 is because others are earning less. In saying that welfare should be targeted at the kids I dont want to pay for someones cigarettes regardless of what they earn.

    • Matt says:

      02:51pm | 12/05/11

      @ Persephone
      Reading that back, it does sound a bit conceited… I do agree with most comments on here, that you don’t need any handouts if your household is bring in that much, or even less. I was just commenting on the fact that a lot of people seem to think that a COMBINED income of 150k is some far out extravagant figure. I have had far from a privileged background, lost my parents when I was young, booted out soon as I hit 18, my highest level of education is VCE. Surely if my fiance and I can carve out a decent living anyone can. Neither of us have had any handouts (from government or family or otherwise). People sell themselves short with a ‘it’s too hard’ attitude, seriously, just get out there and work, and you’ll get paid.

      @Eddie
      Thanks mate, exactly what I was trying to get at.

    • fairsfair says:

      02:57pm | 12/05/11

      $75k in a regional city is big money. It is not easily achieved “within 5 years”.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      03:16pm | 12/05/11

      I’d move to a regional city in the blink of an eye. Something like Bundaberg or Bendigo. Maybe even Mt Gambier or Orange. 
       
      I bloody detest living in the big smoke. I waste 12.5 percent of my life getting to and from work.

    • Kika says:

      03:17pm | 12/05/11

      Matt, I’d love to know where you work. I’ve had a steady job for a long, long time now and am still far off the $75K mark!! In fact a new agreement went through told us that was the mean benchmark in my pay bracket, but they haven’t given anyone that pay rise because the company “can’t afford it”.

      Who do you work for, I’d love to find out!!

    • persephone says:

      03:20pm | 12/05/11

      Matt

      sincere apologies.

      However, my point stands: earning $75 k per annum is not as easy as you appear to think.

      Hence my assumption that you didn’t mix with ordinary people that often!

    • Eddie says:

      03:54pm | 12/05/11

      @ persephone
      I happen to agree with what Matt said…
      And you know what, many people are lazy bludgers as you put it, but many, many people are.

      @ Ando
      I have no argument, not everyone can earn more than the average income.

    • Matt says:

      05:09pm | 12/05/11

      (I am not the original Matt)

      @persephone: Earning over $75,000 isn’t easy, I agree. That’s kind of the point though. Its damn hard work to get to a point where you can earn that kind of income. You have to study hard, work hard, and dedicate a very large portion of your life to attain that position. For business owners, they take on substantial risk to start up a business in the first place. I think OP Matt may be inferring that it is attainable, but most people are satisfied with a lower rung job (with less pay) to suit their lifestyles, and will not put in the additional effort for the higher salary.

      I think you’ll find that high-achievers have had a gut-full of being milked by governments to fund whatever the new political flavour of the month is. While I am not too concerned with the tax cuts (as I am myself not a parent, and concede that this money could be better spent), it concerns me that the “rich” are always the ones who are asked to carry the lion’s share of society’s costs. While you could argue there is an ethical obligation for those who are well-off to subsidise the needy, I would put to you that there comes a time where the line in the sand is crossed. Especially when the government thinks that that hard-earned money can be wasted buying set top boxes for pensioners at ridiculously-inflated prices.

    • persephone says:

      06:12pm | 12/05/11

      Second Matt

      so why whinge now, when the tax take is the lowest it’s ever been?

      The government is taking less in income taxes than any previous government in living memory.

      In 1983, you’d have paid $11 000 on a taxable income of $35,000. In 1992, about $8000. Today, it’s about $4200.

      In 1989, it was $16 for $50 k. Today, it’s about $5k.

      (Sorry, the tables don’t do figures higher than that).

      Social security payments are, however, an increasing strain on the budget. A responsible government should be finding cuts in these areas. It’s also responsible to make those cuts to the people who’ll be hurt the least by them.

      I’d also disagree with the contention of both of you that earning $75k is a lifestyle choice. Some people will never come within cooee of that, no matter how hard they work.

      However, if you’re going to argue that, the other side of the coin is that you chose to earn that amount of money, and you knew the consequences of doing so. If you don’t like living with those consequences, and feel you’re hardly done by, there’s a choice you can make there as well.

    • Matt says:

      06:48pm | 12/05/11

      How much did a house cost in 1983, persephone? Ignoring the time value of money is simply ignorant on your behalf.

      I wasn’t whinging, I was giving my opinion. So get off the pedal stool you’ve created for yourself. You were the one who insinuated you needed a privileged upbringing to earn over $75,000 per year, and stated that some people point blank will never be able able to reach that figure no matter what they do. Its that kind of mentality that is truly disgraceful.

      Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourself for being so small-minded.

    • persephone says:

      08:28pm | 12/05/11

      Matt

      the point is that the proportion of tax paid to money earnt was much higher then - we are in a period of very very low income taxes historically.

      So if you’re working all those extra hours, you’re getting more reward for that than you would have even five years ago - and certainly far more than you would have twenty, thirty or forty years ago.

      It’s ‘pedastal’ btw.

      No, I insinuated that to be as ignorant as you obviously are about what ordinary people earn (and live on quite happily - this is a terrific country) implied that you didn’t mix with ordinary people much.

      Now, the only way in this egalitarian country of ours that that can happen is if you grew up in an atmosphere of rare priviledge.

      By implying - again - that it’s only a lack of will and effort that keeps everyone from earning in excess of $75 k a year, you’re just heightening that impression.

      I know people who work their guts out and earn less than half of that. They’re not dumb, either.

      You really are seriously in need of a bit of experience in the real world.

    • AJ says:

      08:43pm | 12/05/11

      @Ando

      The only reason some earn over $150,000 is because others are earning less?!  Are you implying that the high income earners are being “subsidised” by low income earners?!  I could be misinterpreting your intent.  I hope!

      I thought it was because of pure, plain & simple demand and supply.  Only 5% of the population can be engineers, whilst 100% of the population can answer a phone and make coffee.  Not that there is any disgrace in being a reception assistant or whatever, but then don’t complain about not earning $150k per year like engineers or whatever.

    • Matt says:

      09:07pm | 12/05/11

      Sure persephone. Backpedal, backtrack, and try and reinvent the points you were trying to make. You don’t know me, or my circumstances.

      What do you make, persephone? If it is less than $75,000, then why not work a second job? Or re-skill for better employment opportunities? That is an option for everyone. If you don’t, it is a lifestyle choice to earn less, and my original point stands. That is the real world, persephone.

      Perhaps you could become a set top box installer for pensioners. Some good bucks to be made there I’ve heard. Or become a politician, because you’re certainly full of enough bullshit to pull it off.

    • Matt says:

      09:14pm | 12/05/11

      ... Oh, and to show you your ignorance (using your 1983 benchmark):

      “the point is that the proportion of tax paid to money earnt was much higher then - we are in a period of very very low income taxes historically.

      So if you’re working all those extra hours, you’re getting more reward for that than you would have even five years ago - and certainly far more than you would have twenty, thirty or forty years ago. “

      Some statistics for you…

      Weeks of work to buy average house:
      1983: 220
      2008: 460
      http://www.learningtolearn.sa.edu.au/Colleagues/files/links/25_Years_Of_Change.pdf

      I can only imagine that has gotten worse in the last three years. I’m sure there would be a similar trend in other household expenditure.

    • persephone says:

      07:37am | 13/05/11

      Matt

      I’m sure you mean ‘backpedastal’.

      What do you make, Matt? If it’s over $75,000 and you’re working hard to get it, that’s a lifestyle choice. Why do you expect taxpayers to chip in and help you out?

      And my point still stands. You’re getting more take home pay. You’re paying less income tax than you would have at almost any period in modern Australian history. And yet you still seem to want the government to give you money.

      No responsible government should frame its economic policies around whether a battler on $75k can afford to buy a house or not.

      Make up your mind - are you a rugged individualist who has pulled yourself up by your bootstraps with no help from anyone, or someone who can’t make it without support from the government?

    • Matt says:

      10:10am | 13/05/11

      “persephone says:

      07:37am | 13/05/11
      What do you make, Matt? If it’s over $75,000 and you’re working hard to get it, that’s a lifestyle choice. Why do you expect taxpayers to chip in and help you out?”

      So, let me summarise your points then, perse…

      * People who think it is achievable for the majority of Australians to earn in excess of $75,000 a year are out of touch with the real world.

      * “earning $75 k per annum is not as easy as you appear to think.”

      * People who earn over $75k are somehow not ordinary people.

      *  “I’d also disagree with the contention of both of you that earning $75k is a lifestyle choice. Some people will never come within cooee of that, no matter how hard they work.”

      And finally:
      * “If it’s over $75,000 and you’re working hard to get it, that’s a lifestyle choice. Why do you expect taxpayers to chip in and help you out?”

      So, you say the earning capacity of a person is not a lifestyle choice, but on the other hand, it is. Do you actually even know what you believe in, perse? Or do you simply try and point-score, leaving any credible argument behind in the dust?

      I also said that the changes didn’t particularly concern me. I have *never* been on any government benefits, or received FTB payments (as I have no children). But go ahead and think what you want. And I’ll keep thinking that you’re corrupting the minds of young children and telling them to be the least they can be. Why shoot for the starts when Labor is in power eh?

    • Tim says:

      10:18am | 13/05/11

      Persephone,
      “Social security payments are, however, an increasing strain on the budget. A responsible government should be finding cuts in these areas. It’s also responsible to make those cuts to the people who’ll be hurt the least by them.”

      Funny, here I was thinking welfare was meant to be a safety net. Surely if this cost is such a budget strain then a responsible government would be cutting this funding from everyone who doesn’t NEED it, not just hitting a tiny proportion of more well off people

    • Amy in Oz says:

      09:40pm | 13/05/11

      It is not easy to get a job where you earn >$75K after 5 years, unless you are in a career which requires university training, then you’re chances are better (though still not guaranteed).

      My in-laws are a great example: my FIL has worked at the same abbartoir for 30 years in a regional centre. Thanks to change of owners and reclassification from “skilled workers” to “unskilled workers”, he is actually on *less* money than he earned 10 years ago, and well, well below $75K - he will never earn that per annum in his lifetime. He is not lazy or a whinger, but being from a poor farming family in the country (they had no ceiling under their roof, and compacted dirt under their floor rugs), with dsylexia (unsupported by the education system at the time) , his employment opportunities were very poor indeed. Now at 54yo, his options for increasing his wage in other areas of employment are virtually nil.

    • mikk says:

      01:34pm | 12/05/11

      Can I just point out that $150,000 PA is $2,800 every week. $560 a day!
      Compare that to someone on Newstart.  $250 a week. $11,000 PA
      Compare it to a pensioner.  $320 a week. $15,600 PA
      Compare it to the minimum wage. $570 a week. $30,000 PA
      Compare it to an average wage earner. $1,275 a week. $66,000 PA

      There is something deeply, yes I am going to say it, unaustralian about someone who receives thousands of dollars every week complaining about how poor they are. As someone on less than 20K a year it sickens and appalls me.

      And even that is not enough for you evil, greedy “aspirants”. You spew hatred at the weakest and most vulnerable and envy the pittance they receive that keeps them out of the gutter and out the world of begging for charity or the far more likely underworld of crime and violence.

      Wake up and open your ears to the dog whistling opposition and their lies and realise you are lucky and your choices are many. Unlike so many of your fellow Australians who really are doing it tough.

    • Tim says:

      01:44pm | 12/05/11

      I notice that you don’t include taxes, levies and extra welfare benefits in your estimation.
      Wonder why?

    • Deborah says:

      01:45pm | 12/05/11

      TY Mikk, well said.

    • Ms Briz says:

      01:53pm | 12/05/11

      Just to clarify - it’s $150k per family not per person.

    • Andrew says:

      02:19pm | 12/05/11

      It’s 150k combined. So double all your other figures. This is a about 14% above average, if a couple both earned average salaries (which isn’t likely I imagine).

    • Max Redlands says:

      02:28pm | 12/05/11

      I presume the $150K is a gross figure which should, for taxation purposes, be looked at as 2 X $75K.

    • persephone says:

      02:48pm | 12/05/11

      And also remember, with means testing, that it is usually done on your tax return - so it’s $150 k per annum after all tax deductions.

    • J says:

      02:51pm | 12/05/11

      Evil? Really?

      Maybe there’s a reason why you earn less than 20K a year…

    • KH says:

      03:09pm | 12/05/11

      $66K is the average wage - ..........the more telling figure is the median wage - i.e. what half the working population earns - this figure is less than $60K for most cities in Australia, and goes as low as $54K.  And that is still a median figure - in other words, half the working population earns less than $60K.  I simply cannot accept that anyone - even a couple - earning $150K plus could be considered poor enough to get welfare.

    • JT says:

      03:19pm | 12/05/11

      That couple on 150K per year is paying 30 times more tax than you. How about you contribute more to society rather than call those aspiring and achieving success ‘‘evil and greedy’‘.

      If those ‘‘evil and greedy’’ people truly were that, then on achieving government if I were one of them I would be happy to scrap ALL welfare for everyone but the disabled and the elderly, see how well you get on then living off the tax teat of those you label ‘‘evil and greedy’’ I’m guessing based on your attitude you would not last long.

    • Tubesteak says:

      03:56pm | 12/05/11

      JT
      I don’t think mikk thinks all people earning $150k are evil greedy. Just those whining about we;fare cuts who earn that amount.

      I earn more than $150k but because I’m single I don’t receive any sort of welfare. I also do not believe I am entitled to any sort of welfare.

      Welfare should be exclusively for those below the poverty line to get them above the poverty line.

    • Chris L says:

      04:40pm | 12/05/11

      @JT, I earn under $50K yet live quite comfortably and never thought to ask for welfare. I agree with Mikk that sitting on $150K and complaining about getting no hand-outs is unadulterated greed.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:42pm | 12/05/11

      Yep Ant, I agree with you.  Very impressed that they’ve had the balls to do this.

      I’m still not a fan of the ALP, but I can happily congratulate them for this move.  Cutting off welfare is not begrudging people’s success, it’s acknowledging it.  If your whole budget hinged on the FTB, you should have reconsidered your spending before committing to it.

    • PatC says:

      01:50pm | 12/05/11

      If you need a handout on $150k a year you need to grow up and take some responsibility.

      Our family lives on $120k a year - are buying our home - have toys in the shed - travel both in Oz and overseas and we do it without any Government handouts.

      Learn to budget and prioritise.
      Learn to take responsibility.
      Learn to live without handouts.
      It’s not that hard when you remember that even the poorest in Australia are among the wealthiest in the world.

    • Economist says:

      02:30pm | 12/05/11

      That’s nice but everyone’s different. What’s your mortgage, when did you buy? How much have you accumulated in Capital gains? Did your family help you? Each HH lives differently Try being a Gen Y buying a home in Sydney without any family assistance. I assume you don’t put your kids in private school?

      I’m not disputing the issues you raise, but just as their are pensioners that struggle, there are pensioners who can save $5000 a year.It’s hard not to judge isn’t it?

    • Kika says:

      03:18pm | 12/05/11

      Economist - mortgages are optional. Not everyone is forced into buying a house. Not everyone can afford to buy a house. I can’t. Not yet. If you buy a house and can’t afford the repayments, who’s fault is that? Every other tax payer obviously.

    • Economist says:

      03:59pm | 12/05/11

      Kika, no everything is a choice. Every persons/Households situation is different. Just as you have the choice, to have a mortgage or not, you have the choice to work longer hours, you have the choice to get an education, get promoted and earn more. My criticism of PatC is based around the fact that they take their own personal situation and project it on others. With the claim if I can do then anyone can. That’s not always the case.

    • PatC says:

      08:25am | 13/05/11

      First off Economist, I’ll point out that you never addressed the issue I raised. This has nothing to do with me or pensioners. It’s about people earning over $150,000 expecting government handouts when they are among the riches 10% in the world.

      Our mortgage is our business but it is manageable because we bought a house that we can afford and then worked on it to make it what we wanted.
      We bought this house in 2002. We were able to buy it because we budgeted and prioritised and took responsibility. Our family did not help. I was an orphan street kid how grew up and took responsibility instead of waiting for “some else” to “fix” it for me or give me a hand out.

      My Gen Y daughter and her partner are on their 3rd house and no I didn’t help them. Their combined income is less than $150,000. All it took for them to get a start was staying out of night clubs for a year, buying second hand cars and saving for what they wanted. They got started by – you guessed it – budgeting – prioritising – and taking responsibility.

      I’m also sick of hearing about how tough it is in Sydney. I was in Sydney a couple of weeks ago and house prices there are about 60% to 75% of what they are here, groceries are cheaper, living is cheaper, so your Sydney Gen Y’s can suck it up and stop expecting special handouts.

    • Justin says:

      01:50pm | 12/05/11

      The problem is that any of these levies, rebates & benefits are band aids for a broken tax system. Had Hewson won in 93, & fully implemented Fightback (the former may not have necessarily led to the latter), a lot of these niche items simply wouldn’t be an issue, because they wouldn’t have be needed.

      You do get punished for achieving more now. Under a genuine consumption tax model (GST on everything & flatter PAYE tax rates), you choose how much you get punished by choosing how much you spend. If your spending matches your income (as it seems to be for people in the magical $150k bracket), then you pay more tax. If you choose to be more frugal & build for the future, you’re rewarded by paying less tax.

      Even if you choose to save rather than spend now, you get punished. You’ve paid high tax on the money you’ve earned, & then the interest that money earns get taxed at a high rate too. That led to another example of the current band aids - a tax break on interest earned on savings (2010 budget). Why the merry go round? Just eliminate the original issue & you don’t need the work around.

    • Jean Gere says:

      08:31am | 14/05/11

      But wouldn’t a pure consumption tax punish the poor the most (who will proportionally be paying MUCH more tax for the basics of life) and ecourage the rich to keep their money out of the retail economy? Saving is great and all, but how useful would it actually be if the rich kept the majority of our countries wealth under their mattresses?

    • Tony Abbott says:

      02:05pm | 12/05/11

      Well I think people who work their arse off doing 60+ hours a week traveling and are paying $70,000+ in tax deserve respect and support at least with childcare for them to continue to support those less fortunate.  You have the poor crying jealously they need to pay more taxes, they don’t deserve to be earning more money then me, support me, boo hoo I’d like to see how they feel working their butts off to get ahead and hand over 70 grand over at tax time to support to support some that could not give a rats to work hard have ambition.

    • Rose says:

      02:45pm | 12/05/11

      If you are paying $70,000+ in tax you need a new accountant!

      There are a couple of things in your little rant that should be addressed. Firstly, you really should have paid more attention in your English grammar classes, the way you have written your piece is appalling. Clearly you don’t derive your income through any form of written work, a primary school aged child would have done a better job. Secondly, maybe you should actually listen to what is really being said by the ‘poor’. Maybe if you did you would understand that the reason that many are ‘jealous’ is that they did not have the same opportunity as others. If you believe that Australians are all playing on a level playing field you are crazy. Our entire system is geared to support the well off at the expense of the disadvantaged. I have a supervisor at work who is almost incompetent, but she will never be replaced as she is in a relationship with the owner. That people work harder than her, have more experience than her and are without question smarter than her is irrelevant. Her position is secure as long as her relationship is secure. Before anyone jumps on the woman-hating bandwagon, exactly the same thing happens in reverse, to the kids of business owners, to other people who have any personal relationship to the owners/managers, just in this case it’s his partner. There is also the notion that people on lower incomes don’t work as hard as those on higher incomes, this again is rubbish. Some people work incredibly hard for very little. sometimes much harder than their bosses. It’s probably more likely that they haven’t worked as ‘smart’ as their bosses. This could be because the opportunity wasn’t there, they simply are unaware of pathways to higher incomes or they cannot sacrifice income in the short term regardless of what the potential is. Our welfare system actually prevents some people on lower incomes from getting ahead, simply by withdrawing benefits when at arbitrary levels rather than case managing so that people can still retain benefits even if the cost of travel (to/from work), education or re-skilling is prohibitive.
      My suggestion would be case management for those on income support and that the majority of family support/ low income support is through the tax system, not Centrelink. Things like income splitting, tax deductions etc could be more equitable than welfare payments.

    • Chris L says:

      04:46pm | 12/05/11

      @Tony, if every hard working executive in the corporation I work for were to disappear the company would continue to run (probably quite smoothly) for weeks, perhaps months.

      If every bludging worker in the corporation disappeared the entire company would come to a complete stop in one day. It seems the people most vital to run a company are the ones paid the least.

    • Semi Concerned Citizen says:

      08:12pm | 12/05/11

      Back in my day they addressed the importance of paragraphs. I think this took place in similar english lessons to grammar perhaps even the same ones.

          Usually if I’m baking someone for grammar I try and paragraph appropriately.

    • Paul says:

      02:12pm | 12/05/11

      This is ridiculous and really a beat up by the media and Abbott. Sideshows points this situation out nicely it’s just a stunt as surely no one on $150k + considers themselves poor or entitled to welfare. They don’t do they or do they ?

    • Anne_N says:

      02:59pm | 12/05/11

      @ Paul.

      Yes they do.  The two main things they claim they need the welfare for are (a) mortgage and (b) childcare.

      Of course, they conveniently fail to realise that their children will not need childcare forever, and that they will pay off that mortgage and own their own home in the future, and will then be better off than most.  They can’t seem to see the long term gain as they whinge about the short term pain.  Or is that oversight deliberate?

      Yes it’s tough…it’s always been tough….suck it up.  Why should the rest of us contribute our taxes to the future wealth of people who are earning quite good incomes?

    • Gen Why says:

      08:02pm | 13/05/11

      I am a young single person in defacto relatcionship with myself
      i have many non existent dependents

      I earn 150K (only if you count super but really only try hards do)

      Wah wah wah
      gimme gimme Gimme!

    • Economist says:

      02:16pm | 12/05/11

      Antony the issues is not absolute income, it’s relative income. Now I know I’m going to get shredded for this. Lets take an over-simplistic example of two households (HH) in Sydney and compare (I’ll round the figures and make a few generous assumptions).

      HH1 earns $100000 a year from one incime source with two kids under 5. HH2 Earns $40000 a year with two kids under 5. Both Mums stay at home.
      HH1 pays approximately 27,000 in tax, $5000 in super (5%) and receives $8000 in Family Tax Benefit (B), giving them a net incomes of $6333 a month. HH2 pays $5000 in tax, $2000 in super (5%), receives $8000 in Family tax benefit B and $9800 in family tax benefit A giving them a net income of $4233 a month.

      Now here’s the kicker. If we look at the expense side HH1 lives in a median sydney home valued at $620000 but has a $500000 mortgage ($120000 deposit). Repayment at 7.8% for 25 years a $3800 leaving a disposable income without bills (i.e rates, land tax etc) of $2533. HH2 can’t afford a mortgage, but rents at the mean rental prices of $1600 a month, leaving them a disposable income of $2633.

      Is this fair? Well it’s hard to compare because the two choices are different and both lifestyle choices are equally valid. Yet they hav roughly the same disposable income. Yet HH1 is a net tax payer to the tune of $19000,  HH2 receives $13000 in net benefits from the government

      So Antony, sure in the long run HH1 may be better off because they’ll have a house and more super and so they shouldn’t whinge, but they’ll always be net tax payers. HH2 is likely to be a net beneificiary of the welfare system. This is simply one overly simplified example, what about those who are net beneficiairies to the tune of $40000. So yes Australians shouldn’t whinge because we’re not starving, but our support systems are very generous and I think the wealthier feel like they’re not getting ahead, because they don’t go out and buy flash stuff because they’re trying to pay more off their mortgage more than the miminum repayment to get ahead. I also believe the wealth are more likely to to have appropriate levels of insurance, more likely to live healthier lifestyles so use the health system less etc.

      Sources for analysis
      http://www.investmentpropertycalculator.com.au/blog/what-is-the-average-rent-in-sydney/2010/05/19/
      http://www.news.com.au/money/property/mortgage-pain-hurts-more-in-sydney-than-in-london-or-new-york/story-e6frfmd0-1225936210782
      http://calculators.ato.gov.au/scripts/axos/axos.asp?CONTEXT=&KBS=ctax2010.xr4&go=ok
      http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/ftb_a_rates.htm

    • Tim says:

      02:50pm | 12/05/11

      Exactly Economist,
      everyone looks at the raw figures without thinking of the relative income. Even without the house the family on 2.5 times the income only receive 1.5 times the actual income in their hands.
      We have to stop the welfare dependance from people who don’t need it.

    • fairsfair says:

      03:03pm | 12/05/11

      According to realestate.com.au the most recent median house price for Cairns is $510,000 and the median unit price is $360,000.  Not a huge difference to live in a place where an Engineer earns $80k pa and would be on $150k at least to do the same in Sydney. This all boils down to chosen lifestyle.

      Economist, I get what you are saying but excuse me if I don’t well up at the struggles - eveyone has them. Tim, are you suggesting that those who have just had it taken off them are the ones who do need it? I don’t mean to sound accusatory - I just hope I am misinterpreting you.

    • Kika says:

      03:14pm | 12/05/11

      So Assets are not included in overall wealth? Ridiculous. Just because it’s not hard cash right here and now doesn’t mean it won’t create more cash later down the track.

    • ian says:

      03:14pm | 12/05/11

      well said economist, i wish others would read and see it this way, instead of all the resentment you hear from people who haven’t bothered to get off there arse and make more money.  it might mean moving out of your town or state but the money is out there to be made, don’t begrudge those who get out there and do it.

    • Economist says:

      04:16pm | 12/05/11

      @Fairsfair, exactly choice is the key, but I was trying to demonstrate why people may not feel better off because we look at everything in relative terms.As you know if everyone earn’t $100000 there would still be people better and worse off because of how they use their money, where they live, how many kids they have etc. so they’d still be whining about something.  But I don;t see anything wrong with having a whine when your a net tax payer. Even those who aren’t next tax payers whine.

      @Geez Kika learn to read, I made it quite clear that in the long-run they’d have an asset, but you fail to acknowledge the fact that the first household are net tax payers effectively handing their income over to the second household? Yet on a month to month basis they effectively have the same standard of living, so surely you can see the PERCEPTION from the wealthier HH not feeling better off. Now you may not have a mortgage now, but if and when you do I bet you your opinion will change!

    • Economist says:

      04:49pm | 12/05/11

      @Tim, Damn I missed that part of the analysis thanks for highlighting and putting it so succinctly.

    • Tim says:

      05:01pm | 12/05/11

      Fairsfair,
      no the $100k family don’t need it.
      but either do the other family.
      The $150k limit for assistance is far too high.
      As economist has pointed out, the net taxpayer family is basically handing cash to the other family which makes them not that much better off even though they bring in 2.5 times the money.
      Welfare should be for those in genuine need.

    • Economist says:

      05:27pm | 12/05/11

      Fairfair. personally I agree with Tim. Yet here’s something a little bit interesting If we had a third HH with an income of $100000, but derived from two incomes of $75000 and $25000, they wouldn’t get Family tax benefit B because the second earns too much, but they’re paying only $19500, compared to HH1 paying $27000, the difference the FTB amount. Yet , yet HH3 would have to also pay childcare to the tune of $20000 even with the 50% rebate leaving them worse off.

    • fairsfair says:

      06:44pm | 12/05/11

      I stand with you on that one boys. Nobody should get it. I will follow the “rich” if their beef is that nobody should get it, but if it is based on the “they get it so should we and we can’t survive without it” (which is essentially the vibe from most discussions over the past few days), I am out.

    • Lisa H. says:

      01:08am | 13/05/11

      Fairsfair, I feel the apparent ‘vibe’ of wanting into the welfare system, rather than wanting out, is actually a reflection of the story that the media representative wanted to write.

      Voice of the people and all that.

      ‘We want in’  rather than ’ cut welfare’ is a much easier story to write from a personal perspective. It’d be pretty difficult to write a personality/colour piece on a young family who said ‘cut taxes cause we’re sick of paying’.

      I’m certain most people (including myself, journalists and politicians) don’t really understand the Family Payments system. It is incredibly difficult and time-consuming to register, and the sliding scales make it difficult to know if it is actually worth the effort.

      Employers were blamed for not keeping parents of young children in the work force, but in my humble opinion, the bigger culprit is the Family Payments system.

      Word is that many mothers spend many hours on the phone, adding up all the piddling amounts with a Family Payments bureaucrat, before they can decide whether to take a job.

    • Lisa H. says:

      01:22am | 13/05/11

      How about looking at ‘fair’ in a holistic way and considering ‘life well-being’ as a measure of wealth eg how many leisure hours a day, what stress-related health problems you have, when was the last time you socialised etc etc.

      Higher income earners are not robots - often they are making severe, significant and ongoing sacrifices to their overall wellbeing to participate in a career or business that nets $150,000.

      The fact that the health and lifestyle impacts of constant high-level hard work is is not recognised honestly surprises me, you’d think the left, ‘gdp of happiness’ etc etc would be all over it.

    • Mum says:

      11:26am | 14/05/11

      Not sure how the work those FTB components, our household income is about $30k combined, 3 kids, and we get $1,800 a year in FTB. How the hell do you get $8000 on a much higher income with only 2 kids? It cuts down 20c in the dollar once the lower earner is over $4700PA for us. I think you don’t get cut down if one earner earns NOTHING and the higher earner makes under $150k, which is ... wrong, considering $4700 is a lot lower than even Austudy.

    • Audrey says:

      02:20pm | 12/05/11

      It makes me sick to my stomach that households earning $150k think they’re doing it “tough”. My household and those of my family and friends earn well under this amount and still manage to pay mortgages, send our children to private schools, live within 20km of the city having only bought homes three to five years ago, have two cars and go away for holidays every now and then. In my case, if we had an extra $70,000 a year to play with we’d be laughing all the way to the bank! How about the households earning $150k try living on $80,000 and then see how they feel? It’s a complete and utter joke. It’s not whether $150k makes you rich, but whether it’s enough to live comfortably without needing handouts. It infuriates me that my tax dollars go towards helping households that earn double what we do. Good on the Gillard government for finally cracking down on this social disgrace.

    • Greg says:

      02:32pm | 12/05/11

      So Audrey you think your tax dollars go to those households earning double what you do. Where do you think their tax dollars go to? Those households are earning $150K because they don’t want to live on $80K

    • Economist says:

      02:45pm | 12/05/11

      Can I ask which city?

    • Eddie says:

      03:05pm | 12/05/11

      @ Audrey.  Do you live in Sydney?  If you do then you are flat out lying about one or the other of your figures.  As are many others commenting on this topic.

    • persephone says:

      03:54pm | 12/05/11

      Eddie

      it will come as a horrid shock to you that, in fact, most Australians don’t live in Sydney (possibly for good reasons).

      It’s ridiculous to infer that public policy should be geared to the needs of people living in a particular city.

      If Sydney’s so expensive, and you can’t afford to live there, then move.

      If you chose to live in an expensive area, that’s your choice. Don’t ask the rest of us to subsidise you.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      04:15pm | 12/05/11

      You know what? Nobody is forced to live in Sydney.

    • Eddie says:

      04:23pm | 12/05/11

      @ persephone
      It’s amazing how many assumptions you can cram into just a few sentences!

    • Chris L says:

      10:27pm | 12/05/11

      What’s wrong with assumption Eddie? If Audrey lives in Sydney you assume she’s lying. You also assume many others commenting here are lying. Some pretty baseless assumptions there old chap.

    • Eddie says:

      10:49am | 13/05/11

      @ Chris
      When it doesn’t add up it just doesn’t add up…  Just have a think for a minute.  If living in Sydney, 20km from the CBD on much less than $150k combined and mortage and kids.  Come off it mate.

    • Chris says:

      02:34pm | 12/05/11

      What isn’t being mentioned is that our tax system and welfare system are both part of the same system and operate in tandem.
      It is disingenous to suggest that it is merely a “freeze on benefits” for these families.
      In effect, this is a tax rise for those people with enough combined earnings to be caught - just under another name.

    • bella starkey says:

      04:28pm | 12/05/11

      Well, only if you happen to have children, if not you are still paying the same amount as before and still not getting any welfare back.

    • Lee from WA says:

      02:39pm | 12/05/11

      Scrap all those family payments and hand the money in the form of raising the tax free threshold and indexing the tax brackets/tax cuts. It is all a giant waste of money to churn the tax system like that anyway.

    • bikinis on top says:

      03:16pm | 12/05/11

      Centrelink is the centre piece of our society.Hence its name~!
      Welfare, government housing, the pubs, the clubs, the churches,football, chicken, alcohol, junk food, and junk mail is what Australia is all about.

    • bikinis on top says:

      03:18pm | 12/05/11

      Your comment:
      To Be Liberal is to crave welfare and attack every one else for wanting welfare!

    • Greg says:

      03:42pm | 12/05/11

      To not Be Liberal is to crave welfare and expect everyone but their friends and themselves to pay for that welfare

    • Melrusk says:

      03:19pm | 12/05/11

      Oh Grrrrrrr to middle class Australia on $150 k My Bleeting Ass.

      I appreciate that families earning $150 + are earning that dollar usually through hard work & I respect that, however I do not respect the lack dignity displayed in claiming they are doing it tough.

      Perspective people, we live in a country where we have access to clean water, good health, good quality food & oh yes we don’t generally expect to get shot, raped or abducted whilst performing basic daily chores.

      I realise this is not exactly what is being looked for in this conversation but I have to ask when did Australia become so incomprehensibly ignorant of how well we live in comparison to so many other countries as to call $150 k middle class ?

      Just a visual reminder for any one interested in how some other people live their daily lives, courtesy of the UN

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/unicphoto/sets/72157626414949669/

    • AliceC says:

      04:14pm | 12/05/11

      Well put! People need to get a grip on how well off we are in Australia.

    • John C says:

      03:28pm | 12/05/11

      I know quite a few families in the $150,000 bracket, including some in my family, and they are doing it hard. But they are doing it hard because of life choices - big houses, two cars, video recorders in the car for the kids, at least one plasma TC, Wii, a couple of computers, the latest in mobile phones and the kids with so many toys etc that they don’t even remember what they have.

      I find it hard to accept that these families deserve the same sort of welfare benefits as those lower down on the income scale. I am not talking about those who choose to breed rather than to work. I am talking about the genuine low income earners, the unemployed who cannot get a job - lack of skills, education or age, the really disabled, and the sick and elderly.

    • AJ says:

      08:57pm | 12/05/11

      @John C

      I agree they battle because of their lifestyles and choices. 

      I would like to disagree on that they get the same benefits (only comparing family assistance, obviously the disable, aged, etc. are a different matter).  As your income increases, your benefits decreases.  Also keep in mind, as your income increases, your pay more tax (by default) and just to add some, your % is also increased.

    • Your name: Chunga says:

      12:30pm | 13/05/11

      Exactly….i did a quick count, two out of the first 7or 8 families i know are on the over 150,000, and they are definately not struggling. They have a new car, have been on overseas trips, have new TVs, go out to dinner, always have new clothes etc…..and good for them, they work hard for that money, but they hardly are battling with “cost of living pressures” and needing of government assistance. My wife and i have two children and a mortgage, we would need about an extra 70,000 to get to that 150,000 income mark, and i can assure you that an extra 70,000 would more than cover any of our household costs that make things tight at times….come to think of it, we would be able to get a new car, new tv, go out for dinner, and plan an trip overseas too!!

    • Ryan says:

      03:37pm | 12/05/11

      I don’t see the point of taking money off people and then giving it back, surely they can see that taxing families as a family (the same way they means test) rather than as individuals and getting rid of this welfare would be more efficient, save government time and money and on top of it all actually help people who are on a single income and doing it tough.

    • Bev says:

      04:43pm | 12/05/11

      But but think of all the public servants and others that would put out of a job.  They have empires to protect and grow too.

    • Ryan says:

      12:01pm | 13/05/11

      @Bev: I know, I guess we won’t ever see any semblance of logic or actual efficiency come from a Labor government ever. Their incompetence knows no bounds, worst government in the History of Australia.

    • Trude says:

      03:59pm | 12/05/11

      People on $150k struggling? Ha! We’re on less than 30k with over half going on rent, that’s where struggle comes in.

    • Justin says:

      04:03pm | 12/05/11

      While I still have it, I’m taking some of my middle class welfare & going to spend it on problem gambler subsidized beer & food at the local club tonight.

      I’m going to make the most of it, because it’s all under attack!

    • Taxpayer says:

      04:05pm | 12/05/11

      The truth of the matter is middle-class welfare is just the productive members of society (AKA taxpayers) getting their money back, albeit after administration costs have been removed and they’ve been made to beg for it through endless forms and means tests. In this budget, they’re getting slugged with more taxes like the carbon tax and flood levy, and are going to recieve less benefits. In effect, the government’s net drain on their lives has gone up significantly. They’re not asking for free money; that’s what socialists, dole bludgers and pensioners do. They’re simply sick of being bled dry, and want their money back. Soon enough they’ll be taking their votes back too.

    • Dash says:

      06:05pm | 12/05/11

      Here Here! Very well said!

      This ALP government continues to bite the hand that feeds it. They punish the people paying the tax that funds their agenda.

      The Howard government once it had balanced the budget and paid of the ALPs debt, gave back to taxpayers!

      You are 100% correct. They don’t want charity, just for the government to stop targetting them.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      06:11pm | 12/05/11

      Single people and Childless couples don’t get any middle class welfare and we don’t want any. What we want is to stop subsidizing other people’s lifestyle choices. Middle class welfare is wealth redistribution pure and simple.

    • Chris L says:

      10:30pm | 12/05/11

      Yes Shane, but when it’s the Coalition redistributing wealth to those who don’t need it, that’s a good thing. Are you new here?

    • christine m. says:

      04:17pm | 12/05/11

      Australian welfare is generous.  Three-quarters of a million people on the disability pension proves just how generous it is.  If the hard worker pays for the non-worker, it should be called CHARITY.  Not a bleeding entitlement.

    • Blue says:

      04:43pm | 12/05/11

      AAAAH!  “Rich People”...Just “Poor” Peple with Mansions.

    • Damian Parkhill says:

      04:46pm | 12/05/11

      As a single male baker, living on $45k a year, being hounded by friends & family about when should I get married, settle down, get kids and support a missus. I find people/couples on $150k that cry about their circumstances nothing short of sicking….....

    • John says:

      05:08pm | 12/05/11

      I truely think we should adopt the US system in this country. I am not accepting of middle class welfare but at the same time I view it as this. Most people who are employed and earn a good income are required a). to pay a medicare levy and b). to ensure they have pvt health insurance otherwise they are taxed a extra 1%. Lets take up the US system were you pay for your pvt health cover and if your health insurance is not adequate then well to bad. Most people who are classed as low income earners are exempt from this tax so inturn the middle and high income earners are the ones who foot the bill for the rest. is this fair I ask you, why should middle and high income earners foot the bill for those on low incomes?

      In the end this what this arguement is all about. Reading the post you see people make comments about hey they earn 150,000 then they shouldnt recieve anyhting. Well shouldnt this also apply to health. If they earn enough should they not be entitled to reap that success and if you cant afford it well sorry. So how much does a person earning 150,000 pay in medicare levy. Well lets say after deductions and we will split this between two people. Lets say an amount of 60,000 both ways. That is 2,250 per person so a total of 4,500 paid by them. How much do low income earners pay, Ill say nothing.

      So yes this a policy to create a class war, nothing more. If the govt was dead set on reform. On top of middle class welfare reduction lets see it applied to unemployed as well. Let low income families access to a system that limits what they purchase. So they only buy the basic food items. Let those who can afford it to go out and splurge.

    • nossy says:

      05:10pm | 12/05/11

      Tony Windsor summed up Abbotts Budget reply tonight - expectations - asked what to expect he shrugged and giggled “God Knows” ! Oh dear - a former National Party member unsure of where Abbott is trying to lead us ! Head for the hills folks !  hahahaahahahhaha

    • brian m says:

      05:26pm | 12/05/11

      Sounds like a pretty fair comment from Tony Windsor since he’s totally clueless.

    • Mouse says:

      09:21pm | 12/05/11

      I am sure Tony Abbott would have made a special effort to keep Windsor informed of what he was going to say in his reply tonight, don’t you nossy?  Tony Windsor giggled did he? Maybe it’s fear that he’s going to be out of a job soon. lol I giggled!

    • Asimov says:

      11:09pm | 16/05/11

      Nossy, Tony Windsor is an Independant, you idiot!

    • W. Carter says:

      05:13pm | 12/05/11

      My wife & I are nearing this mark.  We don’t consider ourselves wealthy, but are aware that we are far from poor.  The money is nice, but I can accept that it should go to where it’s needed.

      Keep welfare for those that really need it.

    • scranbag says:

      07:13am | 13/05/11

      $150,000 plus p/a?

      These are people who’ve benefitted from an income tax cut each year for the past four years.

    • Dash says:

      05:47pm | 12/05/11

      Depends on how you look at this I guess Anthony.

      Whilst you show no compasion, remember that these people are the people who helped repay the ALPs $96billion debt under the Howard government.

      These people are the people who are funding the ALPs agenda. They are the ones who have paid for the insulation fiasco, they are the ones who funded the surplus. Many of which (myself included) never received the $900 cheques themselves. These people are the ones who paid the $13m wasted not to deliver grocery choice. They paid the $21m not to deliver cheaper fuel. They paid the taxes rorted under the BER. They are paying for the flood levy which is being taken largely because of the incompetence of the Qld ALP.

      In other words, the people feeling hard done by, are the ones who seem to be walking around with a target on their back. The silent majority who pay the most tax to the ALP.

      Under the previous government, once the debt was repaid and the budget returned to consistent surpluses, money was given back to the taxpayers. And WTF was wrong with that??? At least the previous government gave back to the people funding their agenda.

      Compare that to the ALP. Not only have they wasted billions of revenue provided by middle and high income Australia, but their hand is back into the pockets of this demographic as soon as possible!

      Consider this. The government has taken $2billion away from Australian families. This has been redirected in the form of $1.7billion to pay for the costs of looking after illegal immagrants. A cost which is largely due to the ALPs inability to deal properly with the issue. The money is also being redirected to pay more in overseas charity and we know in part to support Kevin Rudd’s bid to win a seat at the UN. And this money is also being used to fund at least a $13m spend on a propaganda campaign to convince the masses on the carbon dioxide tax. A tax the ALP promised we wouldn’t get.

      So the ALP are giving money to illegals and people overseas, supporting Rudds political ambition and funding their propaganda whilst sticking their middle finger up at Australian families. And you wonder why they are angry???

      So damn right working families are pissed about it! And so should all the taxpayers who have sat there and watched the ALP waste their taxes, erode their living standards and redistribute their wealth to undeserving sections of the community.

      You are wrong Anthony. These people are not asking for more. They just want to see responsible government. They want to see an end to the waste of their money and an end to the ALP playing silly socialist wealth redistribution games at their expense.

      The next thing the ALP are looking to do, is make the same demographic pay the cost for their bloody stupid carbon tax. They will descriminate against families on the basis of income. The same people who have given so much will be hit once again.

      For how much longer will the ALP continue to bite the hand that feeds them?

      Do you not understand that these people are saying ENOUGH!

    • Mrs O says:

      12:13pm | 13/05/11

      Brilliantly said Dash.  You have summed it up perfectly.  It’s the lack of respect and constant digs at those who earn $150K and above that is bringing about this revolt.

    • Greg says:

      05:58pm | 12/05/11

      I think the whole point is being missed here. It’s not about people wanting welfare, the issue here is that the people who are contributing the most in tax revenue and who are funding the ALPs agenda, are the ones who are being fucked over! That’s the issue.

      Most of them don’t want benefits, but they do want the ALP to stop hammering them financially. These people will pay for the flood levy, and the carbon tax, and continue to support medicare, and lose their health care rebates.

      These people are funding the ALP. Yet the ALP keep hitting them over the head. That’s the real issue here as far as I’m concerned. The people paying the most tax are getting punished for doing so.

    • michael j says:

      06:20pm | 12/05/11

      $150,000 a year = $ 2,884 a week, this is middle class Australia today ?
      In the hour it took me to read these comments,,12,600 people died of hunger,
      you greedy bastards,,,,

    • Asimov says:

      11:17pm | 16/05/11

      @mi hael j says, they pay 45 cents in the dollar tax, mate.

    • klouss says:

      06:53pm | 12/05/11

      If family earns $150,000 that means they pay about $40,000 in taxes.  If about $4,000 of that went back to say, a stay home mum in family payments, etc.  How’s that being a welfare addict?  Just a bit of their contribution coming back to them when they need it most.

      Considering these families take the bulk of taxes, levies, etc.  While others are sitting around complaining how they have it so hard, yet receiving the dole/ pensions, etc.  Who exactly are the welfare addicts?

      And no, I’m not ‘rich’.  I earn $40,000 but can see when someone’s getting a raw deal.

    • marley says:

      07:19pm | 12/05/11

      Sorrry, don’t agree at all. I’m in, if not the $150,000 bracket, at least a bracket where I get nothing whatsoever from the Commonwealth. I’ve got no problem with the taxes I pay going to the destitute, the genuinely disabled, the ones who are on a knife edge.  However, I would rather have lower taxes than subsidize upwardly mobile yuppies who are not in desperate straits. 

      But I’d rather not have to make the contribution in the first place, than have it come back to me in some sort of nonsense benefit.

    • Mum says:

      11:39am | 14/05/11

      I know a stay at home mum who is getting about $70k a year in welfare alone. Cancels out a really high earner in one, especially when you add in admin and the fact that she’s in public housing too. Wouldn’t be so bad if it was only $4k.

    • danni says:

      08:40pm | 12/05/11

      Hmm, Average wages have gone up - and for each parent to earn $75,000 each which is about the base wage - then I am sure that they should re-think the 150k base, perhaps it needs to be more like $180k.
      My family lives on about 60k, but I use to work as an accountant and earn (before kids) at least 80k per year.
      Just have a re-think thats all I am sugesting!

    • Lucy says:

      08:48pm | 12/05/11

      Here, here. Some people have such a narrow view of the world - take a look beyond your own front fence people! Do you really need “charity”?

    • Kwini says:

      10:15pm | 12/05/11

      I actually haven’t heard anyone earning $150k or more complaining just people bitching that they are earning a lot less and are getting by just fine and challenging people who work hard and earn good money to walk a day in their shoes as if they are martyrs that have no choice but to stay on low incomes.  Seems like a non issue to me. The reality is that families earning $150k or more do so to provide for their family without the need for welfare and aren’t complaining about losing what amounts to a small tax rebate.

    • Col. of Blackburn says:

      10:34pm | 12/05/11

      As someone who is serving ‘Queen and Country’ on a lot less than $150,000, these people are certainly not on ‘struggle street’. However are these sorts of Government payments ‘welfare’? Or are they part of our ‘Community Social Cohesion?’ Certainly if ‘Swanny’ needed to save a few pennies I am sure that ways could have been found? Halving the Foreign Aid budget? Axing the do nothing Department of Climate change? Paying Granpa and Granma $75 to go down to Dick Smith and buy their own SD Set Top Box!? (Why are we paying for a HD Set Top box for someone who only has a SD TV?)

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:29am | 13/05/11

      Welfare was designed over 100 years ago to help the truly poor.  Now it doesn’t help the poor but it sure helps the top end of town.

      I think Stephen Long said it best on ABC - those high priced journalists in the press gallery might think $150,000 per annum is tough in comparison to their own wages but it ain’t.

    • wealth distribution = theft says:

      04:56am | 13/05/11

      There should be no personal income tax.  NONE.

      We shouldn’t be begging the government to give us some of own money back. We need limited government and one that only supports those in unquestionably in need. (Supporting single mothers with four kids from two fathers is not an example of this).

      My god reading these comments is quite shocking - you have (mostly) all bought into the large intrusive nanny state mentality.

      This treasonous government has squandered and blundered its way though BILLIONS of bucks and now you people want to debate the merits of middle class welfare. STOP ALL WELFARE - except for the destitute and pensioners and give us back our lives. The more money the government takes from us the worse we all are. Giving them more of our money does not equal utopia. They have proven they can’t use our money wisely.

      Reckless spending, insane handouts needs to stop. We need limited government that is an efficient seamless machine when it comes to VITAL national needs and interests. Anything else should not be (mis) managed by a bunch of unaccountable bureaucrats most of who don’t understand the concept of living within their means.

      If we earn our living by the virtue of hard work then we should be entitled to spend it on anything we choose. I don’t want to get a baby bonus or family tax rebate from these blood suckers. I want ALL of my money in my pocket. and If I want a child I’ll pay for it myself.

      The money from property tax, land tax, rates, water tax, import tax, fuel tax, gst, business tax, import duties etc etc etc should be enough to support the needs of this country. Close down the tax office. Do it tomorrow. Do you think the world would collapse around us? NO. We would all put our money back into the community and it would filter back though other taxes that we pay every single bloody day. We would be wealthier, happier and free from this consistent noise that comes from a bunch of (mostly lawyers) who have (mostly) never worked outside of government and are so far from reality it is downright disturbing.

      I don’t work like a dog, so bureaucrats can put insulation in other peoples roofs or buy pensioners set top boxes, or support tens of thousands of people who come here illegally, or give out cheques for $900 and so on and so. The sheer waste and loss of opportunity to make a difference is breathtaking and heartbreaking.

      Enough is enough. Screw this debate it is obsolete. We need accountability in government spending and we need to narrow the sphere in which it is allowed to meddle in our lives.

      Things would have to change. We couldn’t send billions in overseas aid. We couldn’t support all these (hopeless) UN programs that do squat and we would have to start to have a system whereby long term planning is taken out of the hands of transient federal parties in governments.

      But I’d rather live in a world where the government had to watch every dollar it spent. Where Australians were empowered to take control of their own lives and life choices and where working until you drop dead wasn’t acceptable. Time for smaller limited government who value every single dollar they receive and respect the hard work of Australians who make this country great.

    • Billy says:

      06:04pm | 13/05/11

      Well said. I totally agree

    • Jolanda says:

      08:42am | 13/05/11

      This is all about our Labor Government making sure that people make the decision not to better themselves and to stay at a lower level of earning that qualifies them for Government assistance. 

      The Government does this so that people are dependent on the Government and as such are able to be easily controlled and are more likely to vote for them again. 

      Problem is that Labor tends to drop the level and standards too low and as such encourages an entitlement mentality and laziness and therefore society goes backwards.

      Education – Keeping them Honest
      http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/

    • James1 says:

      09:13am | 13/05/11

      “This is all about our Labor Government making sure that people make the decision not to better themselves and to stay at a lower level of earning that qualifies them for Government assistance.”

      I don’t like this government, but that is rubbish.  Only a complete idiot would deliberately earn less so as to qualify for some measley welfare payment.  For instance, if you are on $60 000 a year, FBT works out to about $200 per fortnight.  Are you seriously telling me that a worker, given the option to earn more, would just say no becaues they would lose their FBT?  Sounds an awful lot like cutting off you nose to spite you face to me.

    • Jolanda says:

      09:26am | 13/05/11

      Well James1 some would think that only a complete idiot wouldn’t calculate the amount that they would loose on FBT if they worked some more and then decided whether it was worth it or not. 

      More often than not, for what you get working some more in comparison to what you lose when you do not qualify for FBT, it is not worth working more and most will justify just putting their feet up because they feel they deserve it and are entitled to their FBT…...

    • Perdix says:

      09:00am | 13/05/11

      This budget was about wealth redistribution, nothing else. The proposed carbon tax is also about wealth redistribution.
      The purpose of taxes is not to fund the social engineering policies of whatever flavour of govt happens to hold the purse strings, but about funding the services that a Govt is bound to provide, defense of the realm , big picture stuff.
      It is absolutely stupid and inefficient for a govt to tax people and then give them money back. Simple mathematics tells us that the outputs from the govt must be less than the inputs because they need armies of people to administer everything, and as they don’t produce anything tangible to sell, there is no profit to be made off the inputs. The solution then is to seriously revise the tax system so that to the greatest extent possible, people who pay taxes are taxed at a rate that means they don’t need to receive payments from the govt. Now this won’t work for some, because their ability to earn is limited. These are the only people who should receive any financial assistance from the govt.  An alternate approach is to remove personal tax altogether and replace it with a consumption based tax, which can be applied at either the point of sale, or on withdrawals from the bank. This way, tax is relative to consumption, and as those with more money consume more, they would be paying more tax.
      The idea that a tax system introduced at a time when all transactions were done on paper and people were paid in cash should provide a sound model for todays and future society is quite absurd.

    • Tiger says:

      10:51am | 13/05/11

      wealth redistribution = socialist agenda

      carbon tax, mining tax, axeing the spouse rebate, young mums back to school/work ... all wealth redistribution ergo socialist policy

      open your eyes Australia, before it’s too late !!!

    • Mouse says:

      09:11am | 13/05/11

      The point is too, that a lot of families that are earning $150K plus have worked hard to get there. They didn’t start on that wage and I am sure that their first TV was not a 50” plasma. At that income, what “welfare” do they get anyway? My husband and I have worked long hard years, raised a family, paid our taxes and never once been eligible for government handouts. We don’t live in a McMansion, sure we have some nice toys but we went without to save for them and our bills were always paid first. We have made many sacrifices to get where we are and, I am telling you now, feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever about what we have to show for it!  We have never complained about missing out on handouts, we never felt that we were “owed” anything and we made life choices that we could support without them. Maybe our generation just looked at things differently, you only get out what you put in.
      I am not saying that there should not be welfare, of course there has to be support for people who need it, for our pensioners and for the disabled, but the expectation of government handouts for everything people chose to do gets a bit tiresome. The mentality we have here that “she’ll be right mate” is not working because the way we are going economically she bloody won’t be right mate!
      We need a government to look forward to our country’s future, our kids future, and not just the next election. Stop buying votes, stop pandering to small minded extremists, stop bending over to other countries demands and stop wasting our taxes. Start being a responsible government, start looking after Australia and its people and start earning the money you are being paid to do your job. If you can’t do it, get out of the kitchen.

    • Harquebus says:

      09:28am | 13/05/11

      Only stupid people use Flash.

    • Sarah says:

      09:56am | 13/05/11

      This issue is so frustrating. I’m a single with no children and I earn a good salary - around 90k + benefits and super - yet I don’t get anything out of the budget in terms of breaks. Family tax cuts, baby bonuses etc etc - none of that comes to me - yet I get taxed through the eye teeth. All that tax that I have to pay doesn’t come back to me in the form of any breaks or benefits - I’m expected to prop up and subsidise families - men and women who CHOSE to have children. So its doubly frustrating for me, not only to have to work my backside off and the end result is ONLY to be higher taxed strictly for the benefit of other people around me who CHOSE to be in the situation they are in now - but also because the ‘families’ who were getting all these wonderful benefits as a result of MY hard work are now whinging and whining that things will be tougher for them. Do these families think money falls out of the sky? Do they not realise that their fellow citizens are taxed heavily in order for them to get their breaks? Bring it on I say! Cut their perks and lurks off. Now I can sit back and just wish and hope that one day the government will cut the amount of taxes that I pay and then perhaps this whole mess will actually be fair. TO ALL WORKING AUSTRALIANS.

    • Tiger says:

      09:56am | 13/05/11

      when, oh when, will people be content with what they have and stop trying to “keep up (and surpass) the jones’s”?
      i earn half this magical $150K and make choices in my life accordingly, i have worked and studied hard for 30 years, and ... i would never classify myself as “struggling” - it’s called living within your means. you do not need the mcmansion, two 4wd’s and the best of everything right off the bat. if you choose to have children, they are YOUR financial responsibility. i strongly oppose the current push to make childcare costs tax deductible - family discrimination, if you like…my taxes are not for subsidising your replication exploits.
      feel free to use my taxes for those desperately and geniunely in need, for infrastructure and ... charity begins at home, KRudd, my taxes should not be dispensed as a vote buying exercise for your personal UN appointment process.
      sorry to digress :|

    • petery says:

      10:20am | 13/05/11

      As a single person who has to have spent most of his working life watching most other people with families get something for nothing out of most budgets,I am not really sympathetic to arguments of middle class poverty when earnings exceed $150,000 a year.

      However, being a nice guy, I would be willing to let them keep most of their ‘dole money’.if they fulfill the following conditions.

      Acknowledge that most of the population don’t earn what they do (easy won’t cost them anything)

      Stop whinging about dole bludgers,welfare cheats or asylum seekers sponging off the tax payers. (These are now the people who are really cheering about what is happening to you. What goes around comes around)

      They actually pay the legal tax on those earnings. If that $150 ,000 figure is really gross earnin gs then PAYE earners would be paying a third or more of that in tax already. (How many of you pay accountants to suggest ways of avoiding tax,legal or otherwise)

      stop driving expensive SUVs just to impress your neighbours unless you really need them (one of these would cost two thirds or more of my yearly earnings and apart from boosting my ego do nothing for me)

      Stop paying for expensive private school education under the delusion that your kids are special and too good to mix with other people. (going to private school does not automatically mean success,particularly if the kid is a lazy sod like his parents)

      Don’t llve in Sydney,where just to breathe costs money.

      Solemnly promise never to be greedy or covetous again about what other people have or don’t have and don’t automatically assume that you were born with the right to have it at other people’s expense.

      The last one is probably the hardest, as the upper middle class like them would have no reason to live if they could not be envious of other people.

    • Tiger says:

      12:24pm | 13/05/11

      “promise never to be greedy or covetous again about what other people have or don’t have and don’t automatically assume that you were born with the right to have it at other people’s expense”

      petery, well said…couldn’t agree more. why can’t people just be happy with their lot? roll up your sleeves, work hard and live within your means.
      simple really !

    • Ross says:

      11:28am | 13/05/11

      As someone on $16000 a year as a dissability pensioner in their sixties I don’t see what the fuss is about. I am going to be getting a set top box so I can watch more shit on TV. Someone will rip the government off installing it and the bloody thing won’t heat the lounge room and you cant even eat the damm thing . $ 150000 and cry poor , sounds like bullshit to me . Oh well when they get me a job I will be able to eat propper.

    • Watcher says:

      12:22pm | 13/05/11

      compared to the poor they have targeted , your filthy rich, wake up and take responsibility for your own life, all of the money given on middle class welfare should be put into infrastructure to benefit us all. Our roads can’t handle the traffic now, they should concentrate on that first.

    • Old Codger says:

      12:28pm | 13/05/11

      One of the other legacies of the Howard years was the a huge surplus which labor blew as soon as it grabbed power. If they hadn’t blown the lot the country would not be in the strife it is in now and would not have necessitated such a lousy budget.

    • Older Codger says:

      12:57pm | 13/05/11

      We aren’t in strife old codger matter of fact, compared to the rest of the world, we’ve never had it so good.

    • LC says:

      07:48pm | 13/05/11

      Yes, Old Codger the Second. We are in quite a good position compared to some other countries (cough, America, cough).

      But that doesn’t mean Labor should be let off the hook for letting our country slip into such debt.

    • n_dude says:

      05:37pm | 13/05/11

      The problem for me is not so much the cutoff of benefits., but the fact that once you stop earning $150,000 and you earn $150,001, your benefit drops substantially. Typically this drives people not to get to earn more as the drop in benefit can exceed the pay rise. Benefits need to be phased out rather than cut off. This can discourage people from working harder and earning more.

    • LC says:

      07:41pm | 13/05/11

      $150,000 per year?

      That’s just under double of what I make per year currently. I get along OK. Buy a smaller or cheaper house, take your 4wd that you never take off road anyway and put it on LPG, or trade it for a smaller car or a motorcycle, use your credit card less, eat at home more often and you’ll be fine too smile.

      (On a related note, where’s my tax benefits and government handouts?)

    • LC says:

      07:50pm | 13/05/11

      Oh and send your kids to a public school. It’s not that bad.

    • SamIam says:

      07:57pm | 13/05/11

      People on $150K (the so called “whinging leechers”) pay far more tax than the people who are writing these comments about them!  And it’s always those that pay the least tax that seem to get upset about any of that revenue going to others.

      Who is the real leecher here?

    • grumpy says:

      11:24pm | 13/05/11

      If you cant have a good time bringing in $150k a year ( wich is the assessable portion of the income anyway, meaning you are probably making more like $200+) then get a new accountant. or move out of sydney its that simple. Can buy a brand new home in adelaide outer suburbs for under $250,000, house and land. if you take home $150k should be able to pay that in under ten years easy. If the punch was all i read, I could only come to the conclusion that Australians like to whinge alot about how good they have it.

    • blah says:

      04:32pm | 18/05/11

      Seven words: There are people living on the streets.

 

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