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Turning thin fashion chic on its emaciated derriere

Daniela Elser

by Daniela Elser

21 Apr 05:55am

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Filed under: Body Image, Fashion, Modelling, Women

106 comments

Oooh la la. French women might not get fat, but they’re happy to hold up a very curvy woman as the apogee of style.

Tara Lynn on the cover of the French edition of Elle.

Pick up a copy of the current issue of French Elle and you’ll find American plus-size model Tara Lynn seductively pouting in a white jumpsuit on the front. Inside, 20 pages are prominently devoted to Lynn, who is a size 16, modelling things like blue chunky knitted capes while causally pretending to ride a bike - your standard fashion fare.

For some, this is just another example of what the New York Times has dubbed “the triumph of the size 12s “, that is, a backlash against the prevailing dictate of exclusively employing the skeletally thin girls previously favoured by designers and editors.

In the last few months, curvier models have started appearing in high-end and mainstream fashion magazines and on catwalks in both the US and Europe, prompting the suggestion that we are witnessing a subtle, but substantive shift in attitudes towards weight and dress-size.

Case in point is the rise and rise of Crystal Renn, reputedly the world’s most successful “plus-size” model. Renn, who battled anorexia while muddling her way through an average at best modelling career, recovered and gained much needed weight only to find herself in hot international demand. Renn, now a size 12, has since strutted down the runways of Paris and London and has been photographed by world-renowned photographer Steven Meisel for Italian Vogue.

Similarly, the meteoric ascension to fashion’s highest reaches of British model Lara Stone, a girl who possess, shock-horror, cleavage, has been taken as another blow to the size zero trend. Stone recently graced the cover of British Vogue, and in the associated profile Stone opined, “It would be nice if I wasn’t the only person with tits and arse”.

Last year, Glamour Magazine in the US sparked a hyperbolic media frenzy when it published a photo of plus-size model Lizzi Miller, tucked away on page 196. In the image, Miller is wearing nothing but a pair of underpants and a wide grin, with a roll of stomach fat on proud display. The reaction to the photo was ecstatic, and overnight Miller was transformed from being an unknown model to being treated like a blonde version of the second coming.

Comments posted on the Glamour website included “the most amazing photograph I’ve ever seen in any women’s magazine,” and “For the first time ever, I looked in a magazine and saw a picture of a woman and actually thought, “She looks exactly like me!”

The magazine’s editor, Cindi Leive said in the wake of the of publishing the shot, “I hope it’s the beginning of a revolution.”

Meanwhile, UK Vogue Editor Alexandra Shulman has put pen to paper, pleading with haute couture designers to make larger sample sizes so the magazine would not be forced to employ the skeletal, practically pre-pubescent girls that were the only models able to fit into them.

Addressing an audience at Harvard, US designer Michael Kors recently lambasted the “army of children” who are the usual runway fodder. “The fashion industry is starting to address real women again,” Kors said, “The emphasis in fashion is shifting toward an emphasis on real women who are women, not girls.’‘

Then, in recent weeks, Italian Vogue has launched a “Vogue Curvy” special section online, devoted to fashion and beauty for larger women. (Why bigger women need different specialised beauty products is a curious question.)

So, has flab become fab?

Are we witnessing a genuine reaction to the terrifyingly thin girls with jutting ribcages and razors of spine who have haunted the catwalks and pages of Vogue et. al. as we forge a way towards a more inclusive vision of womanly beauty?

Or have designers and editors simply cottoned on to the fact that using “big” girls attracts much media hoopla?

After all, the occasional glamorous exception does not a revolution make.

If we were witnessing widespread cultural change, why are larger models relegated to appearing nearly exclusively in “Special editions” or “Body Love” issues. Lynn’s French Elle cover coup was for the “Curvy” issue, while Miller’s now famed image appeared in Glamour’s Body special.

There has most certainly been an increase in the visibility of “plus-size” models (who, it should be noted at size 12-16, are on the smaller side of the national average). But has this necessarily impelled positive change or does it genuinely reflect the beginning of a more inclusive bodily aesthetic?

Employing curvier models serves as a means for the fashion world to fob off criticisms that their continued use of malnourished Eastern European teenagers promotes a terribly skewed vision of “beauty”.

The UK Observer newspaper quoted a Parisian fashion insider as saying of the Elle cover, “It’s a gimmick. Having one edition that you fill with big girls is like world women’s day: one day a year is reserved for them and the rest of the time you go back to normal.”

It’s hard to escape the whiff of self-promotion and publicity grubbing when it comes to designers and magazine editors employing larger models.

Renn makes this point in her autobiography, “Hungry”, discussing what she sees as the “fetishisation of fat”. “When designers and editors choose one fat girl to salivate over, and revel in her avoirdupois, I’m not sure how much it advances the cause of using girls of all sizes in a magazine” Renn writes.

Charlotte Dawson was criticized for stating the obvious when she commented on “bigger” girls auditioning for Australia’s Next Top Model. “There is no market for plus-size models in Australia….” Dawson told ninemsn. “I would like someone to name a plus-size model in Australia because I can’t,” she said. “We could have a plus-size model win the competition and she would end up doing catalogues for Target.”

There remains significant resistance from those at the heart of the fashion world, with Karl Lagerfeld taking aim at the issue, declaring “No one wants to see curvy women” in magazines. Largerfeld agued that Vogue, Harpers Bazaar, Elle and their ilk are the stuff of “dreams and illusions”, and thus there is no place for a size 10 reality.

After all, this is a world that has never been interested in normal or average, and so much of which is anathema to the real world.

So long as “fat” is little more than a faddish curiosity or a handy politically correct, self-congratulatory manoeuvre, the wider fashion milieu will remain as regimented and segregated as ever.

If each time a larger model is employed there is such a volume of self-congratulatory fanfare, the prevailing stereotypes are not being substantively challenged or changed.

In this battle for hearts and minds and body-fat percentages perhaps whatever helps sell the most magazines or chunky knitted blue capes wins.

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106 comments

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    • T.Chong says:

      06:08am | 21/04/10

      French women dont get fat?Who ever thought of that non sense gimmicky throw away remark must be worth their weight in truffles.
      French women are no different from other western women as regards to health / weight etc.
      But that doesnt stop some of the punters being gobsmacked with awe every time some one repeats the cliche

      Reply

    • Monica Belluci says:

      08:55am | 21/04/10

      Thats actually not the case Mr Chong

      There is something in the french DNA that means these women retain their shape after birth more than any other western women and that given their diet and life style, on a percentage basis they significantly more svelt that any other European female.
      Note also their neighbor- Germany, and the popular beleif that these females are in the above ++ size
      There are abundant studies on why the French form is like this, but no conclusions…

    • Silliness says:

      07:16pm | 21/04/10

      @ Monica.  “There is something in the french [sic]  DNA that ...” and “...There are abundant studies on why the French form is like this, but no conclusions… ” are contradictions.  Allow me to explain to the slow kiddies: one cannot assert that it is in the DNA and then claim there is no conclusive evidence from studies.

      Anyway,  to claim an entire nation of people share the same DNA is a bit of a stretch in a multiracial society like France’s.

      Chong is right. “French women don’t get fat” is a cliche. Even a book title I hear.

    • Emmie says:

      12:13pm | 22/04/10

      I think the author was making a reference to the book ‘French women dont get fat’, which outlines the cultural attitude French people have towards food that means they don’t tend to overeat.

    • Benny Hill says:

      06:58am | 21/04/10

      congratulations on the return of the “normal” sized women in fashion advertising…to use the words of the dear departed Benny Hill ” i like big i tell you, BIG!!!”

      Reply

    • Fresh Foodie says:

      08:16am | 21/04/10

      That cover girl doesn’t look ‘normal’ to me but rather someone who eats too much of the wrong food and doesn’t exercise.  Her curves look a bit too unhealthy - surely all things in moderation - especially a helthy body.

      Reply

    • lilythistle says:

      08:30am | 21/04/10

      I think she looks lovely and is probably the average size of most women today. That anorexic look, is just ugly. Congratulations to The French

      Reply

    • Robert H says:

      01:07pm | 21/04/10

      lilythistle, I’m guessing you are a woman. right?  And I’m guessing you are somewhat heavier than a size 12, right?  Either way,  your opinion of whether the model looks lovely is irrelevant.  Evaluating the attractiveness of women is a man’s job.

      The fact that the model is the average size of most women is entirely irrelevant.  The fact is that most women are fat.  Attractive women, particularly models, are those who have enough self discipline to match their calorie consumption to their calories burned.

    • lilythistle says:

      02:37pm | 21/04/10

      Robert yes I am a woman, I am 60 years old and I am 173 tall and wear a size 12, but to be honest with you I think as women age a little padding looks so much nicer. I am one of those people who can’t put on weight, I seem to stay at the same size since menopause. I was a size 10 before then. I do not like that stick thin pathetic look these models have today and men should not encourage them to look so sickly. It can’t be good for their health. And who is to encourage these young women to feel comfortable in the skin they are in if women can’t comment? Especially us older girls, we have a moral right to give our young women some encouragement

    • Chris says:

      11:41pm | 21/04/10

      Robert, we’re talking fashion magazines here, not “Ralph” or “FHM”. Fashion magazines are NOT marketed towards men, but women.

    • James1 says:

      12:13pm | 22/04/10

      No Robert, most models resemble twelve year old boys.  If that is attractive to men, then there is something seriously suspicious about their claims to be heterosexual.

    • Very Bored in Catalunya says:

      08:34am | 21/04/10

      Hmmm, we’ve been spoon fed anorexic models for so long that when a normal sized woman appears on a front page, she’s considered unhealthy.  Bear in mind that she’s wearing white which is obviously the opposite of slimming black and yeah sure she’s got a pair of hips.  She has also got the most amazingly beautiful face if anyone can be bothered to glance upwards.

      I know that most red blooded men would rather a roll in the hay with this model than the pile of bones that most working models are…

      Reply

    • Craig Lambie says:

      08:37am | 21/04/10

      I have to agree with the Karl Lagerfeld, those magazines are “dreams and illusions”.  And I agree.
      I hate the mens magazines like FHM that abuse the models mostly, but the likes of Vogue, that is high end fashion, of which I consider art.
      So if the Art calls for a big girl, then use one, but don’t expect them to bend to the “Average” size to sell clothes/ magazines.. they will do what is best for the bottom line.
      Daniela, you mentioned size 12-16 is on the lighter side of the national average….. That is DISGUSTING!
      Encouraging girls that being big is OK is not healthy!! That is like McDonalds and KFC going out there and hiring Vogue to advertise their products.
      We should be encouraging our people (men are not much better) to live health lives, where they value their body and know and understand what they put in it.
      Teaching self respect and care is the key here, also teaching that Magazines, TV and the like is fiction mostly.
      Trying to bring the unreality closer to life, I outright disagree, and it just won’t happen.  Otherwise it wouldn’t be Art anymore, it would be the “womans day” as the Parisian fashion insider said.

      Reply

    • Elsie says:

      12:19pm | 21/04/10

      Men are not much better? Actually, men are worse. From the ABS: “In 2004-05, 54% of adults were classified as overweight or obese. The proportion of men in these categories was significantly higher than that for women (62% of men compared to 45% of women). This difference is most evident in the overweight category, where 43% of men were overweight compared to 28% of women.” This has been consistent across the all years the ABS has studied weight.

    • Elsi says:

      12:21pm | 21/04/10

      That said, I agree with you about the deliberate artifice of Vogue. Beauty does exist, and it should be rare, and it should be admired. We can look upon it with seeing it as some sort of competition we’ve been set up to lose.

    • kaitlyn says:

      01:10pm | 22/04/10

      Agreed! I get so sick of this big is beautiful nonsense. just because they are closer to the average woman’s size does not make them a healthier model. It is encouraging just as an unhealthy lifestyle as being too thin. If they were really going to use average girls, they would use size 10s who eat healthy and exercise regularly.

    • KH says:

      08:44am | 21/04/10

      I am getting a little sick of the words ‘plus size’.  Size 12 is NOT ‘plus size’.  I think size 20 is, even size 16, but a 12? Really?

      A few years ago I weighed 54 kg.  I am nearly 170 cm tall, so that is pretty damn thin.  But I hardly ate anything.  I would agonise over an apple.  I would run for an hour every day, then walk another hour or so.  I was tired all the time, and my thoughts would often turn to food.  More often than they should.  I would have a ‘fasting day’ every 3rd day - i.e. no food at all, just water.  This is not normal. 

      I now weigh 62-64kg.  I eat three small meals a day and a couple of snacks - fruit and the like.  I run only 3 times a week, and I have time to think about other things.  I don’t go out to dinner and pick at a lettuce leaf.  I don’t eat junk food at all - just nice normal healthy food.  I wouldn’t set foot in a Maccas or anywhere like that.  I can do my job properly now.  Obviously, I am a size 10-12, depending on the brand of clothing.  This is normal.  The weight you can maintain in a healthy way, is normal.  If you have to do extreme things to maintain your weight, clearly it is not normal for you to be that size. 

      I don’t think I am ‘plus size’ - that is ridiculous.  I think of plus size as someone who is obese - not someone who eats and exercises normally.  Recently the british show ‘super skinny me’ was aired here - it was really horrifying to watch those two girls living on a ‘diet’ of water with cayenne pepper and maple syrup in it a la Beyonce, amongst other diets, to go from a 12 to a ‘0’.  They were tired.  They were distracted by thoughts of food, all day.  They would go out to dinner with friends and sit there with a glass of water.  They had bad breath and were irritable all the time.  They both admitted that they were no longer doing their jobs properly.  One of them started getting scary and had to pull out of the experiment because she was going nuts.  That just isn’t normal. 

      For most people to maintain the kind of weight that makes you a ‘size 0’ (which is a 6 here, by the way) you can’t eat. There are very few women who are this size naturally.  How is it a good thing to encourage people to do this to themselves? What kind of person wishes that on someone?  If you eat and exercise normally, you are not likely to be able to maintain an underweight condition.

      Size 10-12 is what looks normal and healthy to me - calling it ‘plus size’ is disgusting, because it isn’t plus size at all.  It is just normal.  There is nothing wrong with normal, and I am getting a little tired of being told that there is something wrong with it.

      Reply

    • June says:

      09:09am | 21/04/10

      KH, well done on turning those unhealthy habits around! And I completely agree, since WHEN is size 12 a plus size?

    • PM says:

      11:51am | 21/04/10

      KH, Agree with you about Size 10-12 being ‘normal’ but there seems to be some confusion both in the article and the thread about sizes. US and Australian sizes being used interchangeably with no indication (for the most part) of which is which. Crystal Renn for example is a US size 12 (size 16 Aus), this is not made clear.

      I think an Aus size 16 is often where most people would start looking a bit plus size.

    • 6c legs says:

      01:04pm | 21/04/10

      Yes, *well done you!* KH. grin


      With so many fatties out there now its only natural that even the high end mags acknowledge them by having these ‘special curvy issues’.

      That model looks more like a size 14 to me (remembering that the camera “adds” weight - & she’s in white).

      Fat is the new norm… and with the dumbing down of the worlds population it was only a matter of time before the offices of even High End fashion mags ended up where they are. Don’t blame the Models, they’re only fodder for their fat bosses.

    • neil says:

      02:38pm | 21/04/10

      Yes 10 -12 is an normal healthy size for someone your height, but you are taller than average. The averge height of women is 161 cm and size 8 -10 is a normal healthy size for the average height woman.

      So technically a 12 is a plus size.

      A 180+ cm size 6 catwalk model is just wrong.

    • Gym says:

      08:49am | 21/04/10

      The model is ugly. Far too fat for my interests. Sure, some guys might be willing to settle for her but that’s just because they can’t get hot women and hot women intimidate them and make them feel insecure. If that’s the sort of man you want to attract then by all means pork up. But real men want lean and healthy women with minimal excess fat.

      This so-called interest is really just a small niche market jumped all over by women who desperately want to feel good about their excess kilos instead of losing them. It should not be held up as the ideal because it is an unhealthy lifestyle that will have worse consequences as the years go by.

      Reply

    • Eleanor says:

      10:06am | 21/04/10

      “Real men are only attracted to lean women”.

      You are joking, right? Men aren’t still that misogynistic, right?

      “This so-called interest is really just a small niche market jumped all over by women who desperately want to feel good about their excess kilos instead of losing them.”

      If you’d have been paying any attention to the fashion industry for oh, say, the last 10 to 15 years, you would be aware that the catwalk has been populated with models who are dangerously underweight.

      This movement isn’t about making fat women feel better about themselves, but breaking down the dangerous ideal woman portrayed by media. What men want and like have nothing to do with it.

    • Markus says:

      11:16am | 21/04/10

      “You are joking, right? Men aren’t still that misogynistic, right?”

      I don’t think that word means what you think it means…

    • Eleanor says:

      11:53am | 21/04/10

      Inconceivable!

      Joking aside, though, how doesn’t Gym come across as a misogynist? In his two-paragraph comment, he’s pretty much stated that all women that aren’t attractive by his standards only settle for second-rate men because that’s all they’re worth.

    • Tim says:

      02:39pm | 21/04/10

      Elanor,
      Let’s see if you can spot the difference:
      Gym hates all women
      Gym hates all fat women.

      Which one is misogynistic?

    • Vicki PS says:

      12:58am | 22/04/10

      What an accurate pseudonym, “Gym”.  It’s always easy to pick a post made by a a gym hag: it will be peppered with negatively-loaded descriptors like “fat”, “ugly”, “pork, “greedy”, “unhealthy” blah blah blah. Gym hags are the most hate-filled, vindictive, miserable, self-obsessed people in our egomaniacal society.

      If your body-obsessed lifestyle is so damned ideal and healthy, why do you gym hags look uniformly sour, cranky and self-absorbed?  I have yet to see one of you healthier-than-thou cranks look happy, relaxed and interested in the world.  You all look as though you have weighty problems on your mind, like is your next bowel motion going to be truly satisfying?

      Why don’t you all get over yourselves and try a bit of live and let live?  Give over the name-calling, and maybe we fatties will delay our planned campaign to remind the world how ugly a bony twat looks in lycra.

      P.S.  We cannot really know for sure whether your smug, constricted lifestyle is truly healthier until a few more of you, and us, die.  So quit carping the diem, hey?

    • James1 says:

      12:37pm | 22/04/10

      On the other hand, lean women are almost always very promiscuous, and while one might use them for certain activities, one should never marry them.

      Does unfair generalisation feel good, Gym?

    • Robert H says:

      09:12am | 21/04/10

      I like the thin look.  It portrays the female body at its finest.

      The only people I ever hear describing genuinely attractive thin women as anorexic are, frankly, unattractive fat women.

      Witness the Stephanie Naumoska case.  Here was a stunning, healthy, perfectly proportioned 19 year old model lambasted as skinny, anorexic, and unhealthy.

      What utter tosh.

      The simple fact is most western women are fat and lazy.  Far, far , far too lazy to restrict their calorie intakes to sensible levels, let alone do some basic exercise to burn off the resultant lard.

      It’s far easier for your typical size 14+ frump to gaze on truly attractive thin women with envious eyes and dismiss them as “sick” or “freaks”, than to attend to the basics and get themselves into shape.

      Reply

    • KH says:

      11:03am | 21/04/10

      As to my point earlier - a lot of people thought I looked great at the low weight - but it was absolutely destroying me mentally to keep that way.  I’m guessing you just haven’t been there.  Its not a place that I would recommend to anyone.  If someone is naturally that thin, and some people are, then great.  But if you are a size 12 and eat healthy normal food and do healthy normal exercise, then that is what you are. The fact is that many in the modelling industry maintain their shape in the most dreadful ways.  There are very few girls who look like this naturally, and the pressure to maintain a dangerously underweight frame is huge.  Sure, some of them look ‘glamourous’ and ‘attractive’, but what is it costing them?

      Any man who wishes a woman to be mentally ill to look ‘thin’ is a creep.

    • SarahJaneJones says:

      12:30pm | 21/04/10

      Actually, I find super fit and thin women unattractive, mostly because of what this indicates about their personality. Going to the gym that often and being that obsessed with your appearances indicates that they are
      a) shallow
      b) not very interesting, since they have nothing better to do than exercise and be in shape in their spare time
      c) not really doing much with their life, since being successful tends to require a lot of time and energy
      d) obsessed with food, since they are so hungry. All they ever talk about is food. I’ve seen girls talk for half an hour solid on what they ate yesterday, what they ate tomorrow, whether its ok to have the other half of the cupcake they bought on wednesday because they only had a salad today so surely its ok and they are going to the gym tonight blah blah blah.

    • Elsie says:

      12:34pm | 21/04/10

      Stephanie Naumoska is 180cm and weighed 49kg. She is stunning, I agree, but she also has significant muscle wastage and doesn’t look healthy. Hence the hoo-ha.

      Like KH, I’m also a size 10/12 on a healthy diet with regular exercise. But, also like KH, I was once far skinnier. I felt guilty about eating a carrot. I was royally screwed-up, and got a lot of male attention from equally screwed-up guys, now I look back on it.

      I agree that SOME fat women bag skinny women as a defence mechanism. I’ve seen friends do this. But I also think the whole subject bears more thought than you’re currently giving it. When a woman criticises someone more attractive or thinner than her, she is always judged as jealous. (Conversely, when a man criticises someone more attractive or better built than he is, he’s just making a fair-enough criticism.) Just because a woman is overweight doesn’t mean she can’t have a fair point.

      Pointing out that someone like Stephanie Naumoska, who is nearly 6 foot and less than 50kg, is potentially too skinny to be healthy is, I think, a fair concern to have.

    • Robert H says:

      01:02pm | 21/04/10

      Whoa there cowgirl!!  Daniela didn’t say the model, Tara Lynn, was a size 12.  She said she is a size 16.

      There’s a bg difference between a 12 and a 16.  Size 14 is probably the tipping point.  Sure, some women might get away with being a size 14 if they are tall enough to keep everything in proportion, say 5’10+.  But a size 16?  No way.  Welcome to Hippo City.

      This, of course, brings up the height versus mass issue.  The best primary tool to deal with this issue is the well-known Body Mass Index (BMI), where BMI=

      Weight in kg
      ————————————————
      Height in metres squared

      Having been scientifically perving on women of all shapes and sizes for many years, I have come up with a modified BMI scale, which I modestly call the Robert H BMI Scale.  It works like this:

      BMI   Rating
       
      14   A little bit on the thin side, unless the woman has a petite frame
      15     Hot, hot, hot!!!  The perfect BMI.
      16     80% of all women look their best if their BMI is no higher than this.
      17     OK if a woman is amply endowed in the, umm, upper body.  A problem if it’s attained by a big bum.
      18     Way too hefty for most women.. Certain ethnic groups such as Melanesians might get away with it if they are particularly big boned.
      19+  Far too fat, pure and simple.  Stay away from Japanese whaling ships.  You don’t want to be a victim of false identity.

      I hope this helps by way of clarification.

    • Robert H says:

      01:18pm | 21/04/10

      SarahJaneJones, to type-cast attractive, slim, women with the negative characteristics you came up with is about as shallow as it is possible to be.

    • KH says:

      01:45pm | 21/04/10

      I’ll just assume at this point that Robert is an idiot.  A BMI of 15 for a woman of 5’7” or taller is clinically dead.

    • girly says:

      01:59pm | 21/04/10

      lol agreed kh…. I guess he has a thing for er….dead bodies.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      02:11pm | 21/04/10

      Your comment reads to me as nothing more than an opportunistic jibe at overweight women. That model is beautiful – she has a healthy glow and healthy feminine curves. What appeals aesthetically to you is by no means universal and not all women who would be considered overweight or more importantly, consider themselves to be overweight, are necessarily McDonalds eating sloths. Nor would they be stereotypically bitter and twisted because they had an opinion about the health of a model. Having worked as one, everybody reading this should be assured that it is not a healthy lifestyle in a physical or emotional sense and girls in the industry frequently do suffer eating disorders and / or malnutrition because there is an economic dependency on remaining thin. We used to fast, take pills that impacted our sleeping patterns and work out wrapped in plastic to make sure we got the next job. An additional kilo that would not even be noticeable was blown out of proportion and there was a sense of guilt with everything you ate besides a celery stick. It is neither realistic nor sustainable long term and I have always wondered why the fashion industry has continued to support the culture either artistically, morally or even commercially.

      I am now in my 40’s and work extremely hard to maintain my body and the choice to do so would be 50 percent vanity and 50 percent because I enjoy training and the sensation of feeling fit. But it takes time before and after work as well as a great deal of energy and health that I have not always been blessed with therefore my weight has fluctuated from time to time. The time factor would be particularly hard for women with young families who are most likely to deal with weight issues following pregnancy. But it isn’t always as simple as a lifestyle choice. Some women suffer hormonal imbalances; there are genetic reasons weight is difficult to shed and health problems that obstruct exercise.

      The same way you have an obvious aversion to 14+, apparently lazy women, I have one to shallow, judgemental people who make sweeping generalisations.

    • AmeliA says:

      02:31pm | 21/04/10

      Robert H,
      Interesting comments, considering healthy BMI for women is considered to be between 20 and 25 (or 19 and 25, depending on which studies you read)
      I am 5 foot 3, around 55 kg, and my BMI is around 21. Most people consider me skinny (I eat a normal, healthy diet and do normal, healthy exercise, mainly I am thin because of genetics). I have no curves - very small hips and NO bust at all. Most men would not consider me attractive - I don’t wear tight fitting clothes, as they make me look like a 12 year old boy, particularly up top. I wear a size 9 or 10 jeans, but can squeeze into an 8. I guess if I have a boob job I might look more like the ‘ideal’ (probably also wear a corset to pull my waist in a few inches, to give me a curvy shape). I envy women with curves, all those beautiful hips and cleavage! And, they generally get much more male attention than me!

    • Robert H says:

      02:37pm | 21/04/10

      Now, now, KH, you’re taking this all to heart.  Just lose some weight and you’ll feel a lot better.

      Working backwards from your example of 5’7” and a BMI of 15, I get a height of 170cm and a weight of 43kg.  That’s enough to put plenty of meat on those bones. 

      Lets use Stephanie Naumoska as an example again.  She is 5’9” and has a BMI of 15.1, and she is far from “clinically dead”.  If anything, she could afford a to lose a few pounds, but as I’ve said before she looks pretty damn good.  Stunning, in fact.  Hot. Hot.  Hot.

      Yes, a BMI of 15 would work just fine for most women.

    • Robert H says:

      02:42pm | 21/04/10

      Has anyone else noticed that the only people taking issue with my observations are women?

      Pretty much confirms the contents of my original post.

    • Bon says:

      03:06pm | 21/04/10

      I would say that is unsurprising Robert H, seeing as women are the focus of your comments.  So you like the thin look - good for you.  How’s that working out for you?  Seeing as, as has already been pointed out, most women are not as small as you believe they should be.

    • KH says:

      03:21pm | 21/04/10

      Hey Robert H - I don’t need to lose weight - I am 64kg, but I have an all natural DD chest - I think there is at least a couple of kilos there…....... grin

    • Shama says:

      03:29pm | 21/04/10

      Wow Robert H is so terribly original. Let’s count his sins shall we

      1. using an outdated principle like BMI
      2. Assuming that anyone who takes offence is a heifer of a dateless woman
      3. Running around replying to every comment on this post to assure us that he truly truly loves all those thin women who are getting no love here and those heifers had better starve themselves before he gives his “approval”

      Most size 8s/12s/16s/18s I know are doing quite OK, thank you Robert H. The world is full of thin and porky people who somehow manage to find a date, marry and reproduce because they are not wasting their time drawing up hot lists Given your shallowness is definitely a size 0, we can only hope that your love life is as good. Or perchance you were recently rejected by a size 14+?

      And thank you also for confirming that bitchiness is not as hitherto stereotyped restricted to women and the gays.

    • Elsie says:

      04:20pm | 21/04/10

      Robert should move to Africa. There are whole communities of women who are in the hot BMI range. Refugee camps and such.

    • wolf says:

      05:12pm | 21/04/10

      Robert congrats on some fine trolling.  Now could everyone else please stop feeding him?

    • PanPan says:

      09:02pm | 21/04/10

      actually KH & girly I am 173 cm tall and weigh 46 km, making my BMI 15. I am definitely not clinically dead…
      besides, the BMI is such a stupid waste of time… I am naturally thin, eat junk food and don’t really exercise, definitely a far from healthy lifestyle

    • James1 says:

      12:16pm | 22/04/10

      I still think that super-thin women look likes boys.  If being attracted to boys is your thing, then whatever, I suppose.

    • Emmie says:

      12:22pm | 22/04/10

      *It portrays the female body at its finest.*

      RobertH, have you ever seen a woman before? Women have boobs and hips.

    • mandy says:

      09:37am | 21/04/10

      I think we may be missing a point here. Glorifying obesity is as dangerous as glorifying anorexia - let’s have pin-ups that have a healthy BMI and are bloody hot to boot!!

      Reply

    • Fatist says:

      01:06pm | 21/04/10

      Size 16 = Healthy BMI?

      I don’t think we should all bow down and start worshipping the “average” woman when two thirds of people are overweight.

    • Alyssa KT says:

      04:21pm | 21/04/10

      Why do we have to jump from one extreme to the other?

      Surely there are several more sizes in between size 0 (is this 4 or 6 in Australia?) and “plus size” (which surely is 14+ and not 12, unless the woman is shorter than model height?)

      Overweight is just as unhealthy as underweight.

      Can’t we have a healthy medium?

    • Shama says:

      09:45am | 21/04/10

      You are quite wrong Robert H, the Sun Herald had Crystal Renn on the cover and she was quite stunning. It’s just that one is unusued to seeing anything other than thin women and that women who are not naturally thin are forced to be so (Renn herself was anorexic). In fact Renn in her interview suggested diversity rather than a predominant body type so it’s not as if it is at the expense of thin women. Also the thinness of Western women is a construct and rarely natural, I wonder what you would say for e.g. about women in thrid world countries who are thin because of poverty.

      Also possibly the most sensible take on weight.
      http://gawker.com/5520337/never-take-fitness-advice-from-the-new-york-times

      Reply

    • Robert H says:

      01:18pm | 21/04/10

      Crystal Renn has marvellous facial features, and is kind of attractive in a porky kind of way.  She is one of those rare kinds of women that can carry a bit of excess ballast and still float quite well.

      That being said, I don’t think that anybody could seriously deny that Crystal would be at least 10x hotter if she lost 10-12kg.

    • Shama says:

      02:15pm | 21/04/10

      Not really, Robert H. They had pictures of her when she was a Aus size 8 and the new Crystal - much better.  Besides her height accomdating the weight, Renn was lusciously lush, a bit of Nigella Lawson ripeness there that is very attractive. But that does not mean one should aim for size 16 because a fair few size 16s do look porky.

      Also it’s not really a Q of who you find hot - and this varies much amongst men. It’s realising that aesthetic beauty comes in many packages. As I woman I can’t rate Moss’ or Renn’s “hotness” but I do note that both embody beauty of different kinds.

    • Anita says:

      09:57am | 21/04/10

      I am truly disturbed by the comments of some men - and women - on here. Size 12-14 is NOT plus sized - it’s average. And who are you to judge that a woman who is a Size 16 sits around all day eating KFC? Some people are perfectly healthy at that size. We’re all different and that’s the point. I don’t think anyone is advocating an unhealthy lifestyle or the glamourisation of obesity. We just need to accept that our bodies are all different - better or worse depending on how we take care of them - but different nonetheless.
      I’ve worked with models. Seen them up close and naked. Let me tell you that some of those girls who look so alluringly slim and ‘perfectly proportioned’  are alarmingly skinny up close in the real world. They are not healthy and are trying to maintain an unrealistic weight in order to further their careers. Not all of them mind you - just like not all ‘larger’ women are unhealthy pigs. See what I’m getting at? You make assumptions based on no knowledge of the reality.

      Reply

    • KH says:

      11:17am | 21/04/10

      The camera can distort reality depending on what lens is being used - you are right - many of these girls look awful up close and personal.  To be that height is already genetically rare for women, let alone also being good looking; add underweight to that and what are we talking - less than a fraction of a percent of the total women in the world?  On a standard deviation curve these women would fall into an extreme end of the graph.  The vast majority will be average, and then there will be another extreme of obesity.  What is wrong with the fashion industry is that they have taken the thin extreme and made it into the ‘ideal’, when most women in the world - way more than 95% - are just not that kind of shape.

    • Greek Snake says:

      12:19pm | 21/04/10

      @Anita: While some comments might disturb you, they are the reality. On one hand you talk about the “average” size being a 16 and brand that as acceptable, because it is the average. But if the average opinion is favouring smaller girls, you are outraged?

      I agree that some taller women can drift into the 14-16 sizes and still look healthy because it is proportional. But to read this defense of fatties being passed off as “healthy” because they may not sit in KFC all day is rubbish. 

      One can be fit and still be fat. It is the degree of fat on a person that is considered unhealthy that is in debate. Without measuring body fat percentage on a person, it is difficult for the untrained eye to determine if someone is overweight. BMI does a terrible job of this. But calipers and standard fat pinch tests can quite accurately determine if someone has too much fat on them or not.

      For males it is accepted that over 18-20% body fat is unhealthy and for females its generally 22-25%. More then that and you are unhealthy and overweight. The further you go over this limit the more unhealthy and overweight you become. No arguments. Gone are the days where we fear people dying of the common cold because there is not enough “meat” on their bones.

      Putting women who are above those percentage ranges into popular fashion magazines just because the average woman has let herself go is pathetic. It is accepting defeat in the face of the obesity epidemic. Let’s face it, women who appear on the cover of these magazines often become role models and young people aspire to be like them.

      Do we really want our children aspiring to become what is but a highlight of a flaw in the average woman?

      There used to be a common theme in effort and achievement. You try hard, you are rewarded. The woman on this cover does not need to try to get that body. There is no effort in maintaining an inflated body like that. She can eat at the caloric intake of a woman so much larger than her and still be employed as a plus size model. Yet women who exercise and consciously watch what they eat are frowned upon and labeled anorexic.

      Australia needs to wake up, obesity just overtook smoking as the country’s biggest killer. While it is considered rude to target fat people, it has to start somewhere. They are killing themselves just like the smokers are.

    • Anna C says:

      10:12am | 21/04/10

      I think she looks gorgeous.  Any guy who thinks otherwise should consider f*&cking; men instead.  Seriously you must be in denial if you think something is wrong with her; come out of the closet.  This is what a woman looks like.

      Reply

    • I agree says:

      11:33am | 21/04/10

      well said Anna C

      someone who speaks there mind and doesnt hold back

      its not the exterior that you fall in love with- fat, thin, old, young, black, green, yellow or whatever…its the inner beauty of the person!

      she is lovely to look at

    • AFR says:

      12:21pm | 21/04/10

      Horses for courses, Anna C, horses for courses. I prefer slim women. Maybe why I have dated a lot of Asian girls over the years. Does that make me gay? One of my best mates loves “curvier” girls, and that’s his thing. I get quite annoyed when people talk about “real women”, as if a size 8 lady cannot be “real”.

    • H of SA says:

      12:27pm | 21/04/10

      She looks a litte young to me, so because I don’t wanna be a letch I should try changing my sexuality?

      You can’t tell people what they are and aren’t attracted to….it….just doesn’t work that way.

    • Robert H says:

      01:29pm | 21/04/10

      No Anna C, this is not necessarily what a woman looks like.  This is what a **fat** woman looks like.

      Incidentally, you stated that she looks gorgeous.  As I said above, rating women’s looks is really a man’s job,  You shouldn’t get too involved in it.  It will only confuse you.

      Your suggestion that “Any guy who thinks otherwise should consider f*&cking; men instead” is also rather perplexing.  If I read you right, you are suggesting that men who are attracted to beautiful, sensual, well-proportioned slim women are gay, while straight men are only attracted to bloaters?

      I suspect you might be a bit on the chubby size Anna.

      Tell you what, email me a naked picture of yourself and I’ll give you an honest appraisal, together with a rating of 1-10 on the Robert-H-Lust-O-Meter.

      What could be fairer than that?

    • Anita says:

      01:59pm | 21/04/10

      Dear Greek Snake person,
      Actually, I said 12-14 was average. But you were so keen to get into a bit of fatty bashing that you misread it. I’m not an advocate of unhealthy eating. I’m just saying that all bodies are different and pegging a fairly unrealistic ideal as the ‘perfect’ body isn’t really fair.

    • Tim says:

      02:45pm | 21/04/10

      Ah Anna C,
      let me guess, you’re a size 16-18 woman right?
      And of course only size 16-18 women are “real” women, anyone that says different must be gay.

      Keep telling yourself that.

    • Little lady says:

      10:24am | 21/04/10

      I WEAR (as opposed to “am”) a dress size 8.

      Apparently I should be admonished for this crime. Plus size wearers are curvy, ergo, a dress size 8 wearer is deemed not “curvy”. Additionally, I hear that only “real women” have curves, so I am forced to logically concede that I am not a real woman. Obviously I must have delusions about my menstrual periods and my female genitalia. Any umbrage I take at being lambasted for being “not real” is presented as proof of my shortcomings and failure at performing the new benchmarks of womanhood.

      Deriding thin or petite females as not “real” or “sticks and freaks”  may bolster the egos of a few big girls but it does not address poor body image. It simply shifts the focus of discrimination. Further, it only entrenches that a woman’s value is based on her body shape. Or size.

      Am I the only one who questions this “plus-size equals curvy” nonsense?
      My hip-waist ratio suggests that I am indeed, curvaceous. But I am refused the appellation “curvy” simply because I am not plus-sized.

      Dress size and body shape are not consistent. Take a look around; tall and gaunt, wiry and petite, large and round, short and fat, hourglassed and short, athletic, medium pear shaped, amazonian…the permutations would fill a page.

      Badging plus-sized women “curvy” suggests perverse political correctness. Why not call it what it is; fat.  Be “fat” with pride rather than cloaking it in a sanitised euphemism.

      Taking a look around at your average shopping mall together with the statistical information from public health surveys,  I would posit that the Australian waist size—men’s and women’s —is growing faster than other body measurements. It is possible that bigger body size equals dangerously and unhealthily sausage-shaped.

      Reply

    • Mandy says:

      01:12pm | 21/04/10

      Deriding thin or petite females as not “real” or “sticks and freaks”  may bolster the egos of a few big girls but it does not address poor body image. It simply shifts the focus of discrimination. Further, it only entrenches that a woman’s value is based on her body shape. Or size.

      Well said, as a natural size six (no i dont starve myself or diet EVER) I get told that I “need to eat” or asked if i do eat, by sales assistants or even strangers.
      Now on the other hand I would expect to get slapped were i to go up to a fat person and ask them if they ever stopped eating or why dont they eay healthy. 
      The media should be encouraging positive self image and self worth, and being healthy regardless of an arbitrary number.

    • bella starkey says:

      02:22pm | 21/04/10

      Oh Mandy, I feel your pain.

      It’s amazing how it is ok to brand someone with a mental illness(ie anorexia) but point out that someone is a morbidly obese and it’s like you called oprah a n*gger.

      I am naturally thin, I was miniscule at school and had rumours constantly spread about me, was teased etc.

      As i’ve gotten older i have “filled out a bit”, grown boobs and hips, but i am never going to be a big person, i have a very small frame.

      I can’t help it, I just had to learn to be happy with what i got.

    • Little lady says:

      08:26pm | 21/04/10

      Mandy and bella, thin is the new black or rather, the new ni**ger of the world (sorry, John).

      There are very few people we’re allowed to be horrible about any more. This is a good thing. We’ve learnt (well, most of us have learnt) that it’s unacceptable to insult people based on their race, gender, height, age or size – well, not if they’re overweight, anyway. But somehow, slim women fell through the cracks. Pun intended. See, one can make a joke at slim women’s expense but can one imagine making a joke about fat people? Slim people get no such protection, no such social courtesy because…they’re skinny/slim. It seems to be as simple as that.

      There is something very paradoxical about attempting to build up the reputation of fat people by tearing thin people down. Suddenly fat girls are “real women” and insinuation is that thin girls are not “real”. So now I am a ‘fake’ woman because I am not fat. Apparently the only way a woman past puberty can be thin is via anorexia or bulimia or drugs.  I have been sneered at and insulted in public when I am seen eating an ice-cream or burger.  I hear scoffs when I assert that I am “naturally thin” and I am scowled at for having the temerity to wear a waist hugging dress.

      If one is overweight and is actually curvy, great for them, they deserve the appellation. However, if one is a bit large and measurements are about the same from breasts to waist to hips, then I fail to see how that is “curvy”.

      When one calls a big girl “curvy”, even if she isn’t, it is perpetuating the notion that being fat, thick, big, whatever you want to call it, isn’t appealing. We have to call it something it isn’t BECAUSE we allow these more accurate descriptors to be considered insulting.  We have to used some sanitised euphemism because “fat” is a pejorative.

      There will always be fat people and thin people out there, some who can’t do anything reasonable about it, so it is incumbent for us to start accepting that, and certainly stop trying to bolster the image of one body type by bashing its opposite, and most importantly, stop pretending that fat is a dirty word.

    • Eleanor says:

      10:26am | 21/04/10

      In response to the comments from men, saying the only fat women call catwalk models anorexic.

      http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76543.php

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-481723/Skinny-models-need-doctors-note-London-catwalks.html

      Fat women, and leading health professionals too it would seem. Yes, there is a level of bitterness and vindinctivness from a lot of women, but at the end of the day, a lot of catwalk models are verging on dangerously underweight and that is the truth.

      This becomes a problem for all women when a body that can barely function is packaged and sold to us as something we need to be - that we should desire to achieve, and despair if we fail to achieve.

      This is wrong on so many levels. For too long the fashion industry has been promoting an aesthetic that only fashion designers find appealing. For our health’s sake, we need to reject this ideal. We now live in a world where there are dedicated anorexia wings in hospitals, filled with girls who are trying to force their bodies into a mould that is far too small.

      Yes, obesity is bad. But, aside from recent plus-size model shoots, has it been dressed up in designer clothes and marketed as something to aspire to?

      Health needs to be first priority, and society needs to learn that thin =/= healthy.

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      11:12am | 21/04/10

      “This becomes a problem for all women when a body that can barely function is packaged and sold to us as something we need to be - that we should desire to achieve, and despair if we fail to achieve.”
      Who is telling women this exactly? Fashion magazines? I am yet to read anywhere that you are a failure and should despair if you are not as thin as the model shown.
      It is women themselves that are projecting their own insecurities onto images of beautiful women in articles, and claiming it is their fault for how bad they feel.
      I don’t go around blaming elite athletes for representing an unrealistic image of sporting prowess, I recognise them for what they are: the elite. The 1%. Not something that everyone can achieve. I acknowledge this and get on with achieving MY goals.
      Perhaps women who spend their lives obsessing over a picture should try this more often.

    • Eleanor says:

      11:51am | 21/04/10

      Markus - no, it’s not ever written in black and white in magazines. But the message is there, and it has been for a long time.

      As I mentioned above, the effects are clear. We are now living in a society where anorexia is rampant. We have dedicated mental health professionals and hospital wards for anorexia patients. Do a google search for ‘thinspiration’ or ‘pro ana’ and there are entire online communities offering adivce and support for (mainly) girls who want to be catwalk thin.

      This is a recent occurence. Anorexia was practically unheard of in the 50s.

      And you really can’t compare athletes to models. Athletes represent an incredibly high level of health and physical prowess from years of training. This is why they are held up as role models. They represent good health and determination.

    • Markus says:

      12:32pm | 21/04/10

      Furries were also unheard of in the 1950s, but now have large online communities offering advice and support.
      Anorexia is not rampant. It affects roughly 1 in 100 adolescent girls (sourced from the Eating Disorders Foundation Victoria).
      What is rampant is the number of overweight and obese individuals, which is now close to 1 in 2.
      Media quotes like “only curvy women are real women” are much more misleading and damaging to women. Not only do they insult naturally petite women, they also give women a false belief that size 16 is natural.
      Yes there are some fantastically beautiful women whose ideal size is 16 or higher, but like the “rake-thin” models, they are the minority. The vast majority of women who are size 16 and bigger are overweight or obese.

    • Greek Snake says:

      01:01pm | 21/04/10

      Spot on Markus.

      That was the first thing that came to my head when I read that “anorexia is rampant” rubbish. There are more fatties then there are ano’s.

      We quite happily label people as anorexic, as having an eating disorder and we go to all lengths to help them (and so we should) but the same is not being done for the other end of the weight spectrum. Why is there no group, no disorder and more importantly no word that labels people who CAN’T stop eating. “Fat” is obviously out because so many people find it offensive.

      The problem is, there are so many similarities we just don’t want to notice them in fear of hurting the fatties’ feelings. Fat people, like anorexia sufferers, refuse to believe they have anything wrong with them. How many anorexia documentary style clips have we seen showing young girls with their skin hugging their rib cage who think they look great? Then you have obese women talking about being curvy and a “real woman”. These are all precious euphemisms used to disguise the fact that they have a problem.

      If it were anorexia that rose above smoking as the country’s biggest killer, we’d be invading every school trying to force feed thin girls to fix the problem. But because it’s obesity, we can’t say much because they might get offended.

    • Mandy says:

      01:19pm | 21/04/10

      And you really can’t compare athletes to models. Athletes represent an incredibly high level of health and physical prowess from years of training. This is why they are held up as role models. They represent good health and determination

      Actually you can, modelling just like being an athlete, is a job.
      Like any job there are requirements you need to fit to be able to perform that job well.
      Designer samples are not made in large sizes - that would be a waste of fabric and drive costs up, so models doing the job of showing these products, need to be within a certian height and weight range. just as an athlete needs to be to compete, or a jockey or dancer.

      The point is that the media is perpetuating false ideals that everyone should look similar to a select group of people with certian genetic mutations that are performing a specific job - selling garments.

      I find it interesting that even on so called “reality TV” the contestants chosen, usually still fit this stereotype.

    • KH says:

      01:41pm | 21/04/10

      From the time a girl is born to the time she turns 18, she will be bombarded with literally millions of images from advertising, TV, movies, magazines etc, that tell you that being underweight is the only thing that is ‘beautiful’.  Each instance by itself might be seen as ‘harmless’, but the cumulative effect isn’t.  It doesn’t have to be written in black and white.  Anorexia is a medically diagnosed condition - but the number of women who obsess about food and their weight is huge - you don’t have to be diagnosed with anything to have a serious problem with your relationship to food.

      “Plus Size” is a US term that literally means ‘not 0’ - i.e. a number (although how you can be no size at all is a mystery to me).  We don’t have 0;  0 = 6 here, so ‘plus size’ just sounds like ‘fat’.  Sizing is a whole separate issue - I have clothes in 10,12 and 14 which all fit me.  So which one am I?  I say a 12, because that is my standard Levi’s size, which are based on inches.  Distubingly, the size 14 came from a shop whose target consumer audience is the teens, whilst the 10 came from a shop that targets older women.  What does this tell girls?  If “size 8” is ideal but in the shops they buy clothes in a 12 is a 10 in other stores - you can see why peoples heads are messed up!

      Size doesn’t actually mean a lot when you are talking about physical shapes.  If you eat normally, do some exercise every week, don’t pig out on KFC and stuff - whatever weight you are is probably the healthy one for you.  What size is that?

    • Eleanor says:

      01:59pm | 21/04/10

      @ Greek Snake - this is the point I’m trying to make. Just as obesity shouldn’t be a health issue, neither should anorexia. I believe KH put it a lot more succinctly than I did in saying “Anorexia is a medically diagnosed condition - but the number of women who obsess about food and their weight is huge - you don’t have to be diagnosed with anything to have a serious problem with your relationship to food.”

      Ideally speaking, everyone would eat healthily, exercise and be of an ideal size for their body type.

      And, as someone who used to be overweight, I can tell you right now I was aware all along that there was something wrong with me. For starters, the clothes I liked were never made in my size. Everyday items like tops or jeans. Already, that said to me that I wasn’t allowed to wear what I want - that I should wear shapeless tops and track pants.

      And then I was treated like I was fair game. ‘Friends’ would call me thunderthighs, blubberguts. In one instance, one actually grabbed my tummy and asked how far along I was.

      And then, of course, the media. How the fat girls in tv and movies are portrayed as horrid creatures, who should be lucky that any man gives them the time of day, let alone any sort of interest.

      Amid all this, I was trying so hard to convince myself that I was losing weight purely for my health, and not so people would just treat me like a human.

      Perhaps I was an anomaly. Maybe no-one else who is overweight ever realised they weren’t healthy. But for me, I was told from dawn till dusk exactly what was wrong with me.

      This must stop. For all people, fat or thin.

    • thea gordon says:

      10:59am | 21/04/10

      I’m a size 12, have been all my life [60 now], love fashion, and turned off mags yrs ago. I just couldn’t relate to the clothes draped on broom thin bodies, saw them almost as aliens, another species! I knew that the item on the body would not look like that on me-I had boobs and normal legs. I hated the gaunt look on the faces and often spooky make-up and the trend of the sour, non emotive look. All my professional training had taught me that pleasant engagement and sparkle were ingredients for success.
      Thin models doing activity shoots, without muscle tone but hair blowing were also a hoot. Models in swimsuits and beach wear with wide spaces dividing their upper thighs looked awful, I’d be worried about a 12 year old looking like this, let alone an adult. Cable tv has a channel endlessly sending dressed rakes down a fashion dais…I can’t watch it..I admit when I see young women who are squished into jeans and have a roll showing I think , take a long look in the mirror and lose a bit of the hambuger, but I invariably see it as a health and mobility issue, NOT a fashion one. I have many friends in the 12-16 size, they dress and groom well and look great. If I can see a mag with people our size, I’ll start looking again. Send the waifs home, let them get a real job where they can end subsisting on lettuce leaves and not look forward to osteo at 40.
      I DO notice that some mags in Aust [the weeklies] have sections on looks, structuring, how to find the clothes, what works with what, using PLU’s [ people like us], well done editors, and my daughters [3] look at them!!!

      Reply

    • H of SA says:

      11:30am | 21/04/10

      Models never really were meant to be realistic for the rest of us - or even necessarily attractive.

      If you put an athletic or slim lady with some very nice curves infront of a guy, or an incredibly skinny 6,4 lady with that “fashionably androgenous” look - you know the guy is going for lady A. But lady B is good for modelling clothes. So attraction doesn’t really come into it - its just about selling the product.

      Happens with male models too, I have to wait next to a big picture of one at my bus stop. His hair is awesome and I wish I could get mine like that. But it would last about 10 minutes if taken outside - so it looks great for the add but not realistic for people. But that’s ok I take no offence nor do I feel any reasonable person would expect me to get my hair that way.

      Perhaps we should take fashion a little less seriously? Who gives a crap if the models aren’t realistic - its just fashion. Fashion should no more affect our perceptions of reality than the next action film. Just enjoy it, letting it control you is just….weird.

      Reply

    • wk says:

      11:32am | 21/04/10

      Look,  some men prefer skinny women, some men prefer curvy women, and some men (luckily mine) are just happy with a healthy, attractive woman.
      This applies to guys as well. I know women who love muscular men, and women who find it ugly. Let’s all move on from the insults cos’ they are all subjective.
      Personally though, I’d love to see more athletic/ sporty type women on the covers of magazines… They are the ones that seem totally ignored in these fat v skinny debates!!

      Reply

    • Louise says:

      11:39am | 21/04/10

      Just for your information, Lara Stone is actually Dutch, not British.

      Reply

    • Albie says:

      11:41am | 21/04/10

      The article asks why there are more an more “plus sized” women in magazines etc etc…

      Isn’t it obvious? The real life “plus sized” women out there in the world have money too… and they are a market to be tapped into just like any other… sigh.

      I’m not going to comment on all the argy bargy above. Anorexia and obesity are equally distressing and serious problems for our society. Our fascination with both are just making them worse.

      But at least the marketers in vogue have figured out a way to make money from both ends of the market….

      Reply

    • Suzi says:

      12:08pm | 21/04/10

      I would just like to see healthy, glowing models in magazines, not overweight and not too thin - think of the beautiful models of the 80s. I recently opened up a magazine after not buying one for a while and the model used to sell (I mean that’s what it’s all about isn’t it?) the clothing described as for ‘working women’  looked all of 14 years old! On principle I refuse to buy that stuff and I know many women are doing the same. Vote with your wallets ladies and stop buying if you don’t like how it’s marketed. The same goes for fashion mags, which are really just advertising catalogs with a few lame articles thrown in really. I’m currently needing to replace my purse and maybe I’ll buy some nice perfume this weekend, I have a feeling I’ll be choosing Micheal Kors over the rest.

      Reply

    • G says:

      12:25pm | 21/04/10

      Seriously, that lady on the cover is fat…

      Reply

    • Ellie says:

      01:28pm | 21/04/10

      How many times do people need to be told. AVERAGE DOES NOT EQUAL HEALTHY. The size of an average western woman is now 14. Do you know what that tells you? Hmm.. take a look at our diet. Take a look at our stressful jobs. Thats the reason why the average is 14, not because that’s the optimal size. Sure some women are meant to be larger. If they have a good fat to body ratio, then they are perfectly healthy. But lets be serious - most do not!

      Now lets get to the reason that the fashion industry uses skinny models. Designers believe their clothes look better on skinny tall small breasted models. That’s what they believe and there’s not much else to it.

      Do men’s magazines use fashion models? No, no they don’t. They use curvy (btw curvy does in no way mean fat) models between size 6-12 and a minimum cup size C, breast implants preferred. These models can be any height.

      Life models for drawing are normally very curvy size 10+ and any height.

      All entertainment industries discriminate. There’s nothing much you can do about it. Everyone should stop whinging about it already! Just buy clothes which you think look good on you. Stop trying to blame other people for your own insecuritities. If you think you’d look better if you were skinnier, then lose some weight. If you like your figure, then keep on liking it but stop telling everyone else they should to.

      Reply

    • Nicole says:

      11:01pm | 21/04/10

      THANK you Ellie, for saying exactly what I was going to point out after reading everyone’s comments. Everyone seems so keen on saying “stop calling it plus-size - size 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 is average!” So what if it is? Average doesn’t mean “optimal”, it means “everyone’s weight added up and divided by the number of people who were weighed”, so you just know there are going to be a lot of fatties out there seriously inflating (pun intended) that figure, especially in a country as fat as ours. People need to stop glorifying weight levels that are unhealthy when obesity is far more of a problem than anorexia in Australia.

    • maybe says:

      01:25pm | 23/04/10

      While we’re being pedantic, everyone should stop calling it ‘weight’.  What everyone is talking about is ‘mass’.  Weight is relative, and not measured in pounds or Kgs, but in Newtons.  So you can say, ‘I weigh 500N’ and that would be fine, but really, you just look like an idiot if you say you weigh 51Kgs. Seriously people.

    • Bon says:

      01:59pm | 21/04/10

      In my opinion what is more disturbing than fashion models who are too thin is the increasing trend for magazines and photographers to digitally change the appearance of models and celebrities - erasing lines; thinning out legs, arms and hips, enhancing breasts etc.  What is presented then is an image that really ISN’T realistic - it has been manufactured on a computer.  Celebrities who sell things like wrinkle creams for example are photoshopped in their ads to appear younger, which undoubtably helps to sell their product but is effectively false advertising, and creates unrealistic expectations for women.  They have no hope of ever looking like their favourite model or star from a magazine, because even the model or star doesn’t look like that in real life.  This is a worrying trend - exactly what is wrong with reality?

      Reply

    • DaisyMae says:

      02:50pm | 21/04/10

      Bon the adds that really make me laugh are the wrinkle cream adds with 20’s models, they had no wrinkles to start with. I think surgery is the only real wrinkle remover and its such a shame more and more men and women are resorting to it. We should glorify age, its a badge saying “look how long we have lived!! aren’t we clever” Way to much emphasis is put on how we look, intead of who we are.

    • neil says:

      02:23pm | 21/04/10

      Why is that fat women are always trying to convince themselves that they are normal. Tara Lynn is a very pretty fat chick.

      apparently 60% of australian woman are over weight which means the average Australian woman is over weight, so if size 14 is average then logically size 14 is fat.

      look at it this way the average height for women is 161 cm a typical size 14 is about 65 kg which gives a BMI of 65/1.61x1.61= 25.1. A BMI of over 25 is considered outside the healthy weight range.

      Average does not mean normal or healthy, stop fooling yourself, if you are size 14 and less than 170 cm tall you are fat.

      And yes the average Australian male is also fat.

      Reply

    • goesbothways says:

      02:31pm | 21/04/10

      As if men don’t do the same thing??!!? I seem to see a LOT more fat blokes than killer abs out there….

    • Smith says:

      04:02pm | 21/04/10

      I have a friend who is ‘petite’; a thin waist, thin arms etc. I have heard girls bitch about her being ‘ano’ and am sure there have been bulemia rumours circulating around certain friends. The fact is, she eats perfectly healthily, at times eating more than I do in a sitting. She exercises about the same as I do and is lives a fairly similar lifestyle to mine (as far as eating, exercising and working conditions go). I’m a guy, about 5’8”, weighing about 70-75kg. By comparison, I have another friend who is similar in size and shape to the model featured on the cover of Elle in this article. She has a predominantly vegetable-based diet, eating meat maybe once or twice a week and excercising daily. I don’t consider myself ‘unhealthy’ and I’m definately not fat, but this friend is by all means healthier than both myself and my other, more ‘petite’ friend.

      Everyone’s body is different - and we should embrace and promote that. I’m not saying we should say fat is acceptable, but we should say healthy is acceptable. Some people will never be a size 8 or 6, while others may be that size but are in no way shape or form ‘healthy’.

      And for the record, I think that cover model is damn hot. Not because she is ‘bigger’, but because she is beautiful.

      Reply

    • NG says:

      04:07pm | 21/04/10

      Why not take the recommendations published by a recognised authority such as the World Health Organisation as guidance on what classifies as a healthy weight.  They classify a BMI in excess of 25% as being overweight. Similarly they classify a waist size greater than 80cm for women and 94cm for men as indicators of being overweight.

      Keep the models within those boundaries and everyone can be happy!

      Reply

    • Manipulation Equals Sales says:

      05:17pm | 21/04/10

      The fashion world is a fantasy world of electronicaly altered images, newsbites, shows etc all designed to evoke desire in the reader which can be translated into product sales.  So to say that its great that they are instead trying to manipulate you by using larger instead of skinnier models to me is still missing the bigger picture.  Whatever this months style or body image is that you are supposed to attain, the agenda behind it is to manipulate you into buying their product.  So just step back and pause - look at what the vested interests are behind anyone telling you that you have to buy their product to be happy, and then laugh and say “actually, I don’t need your crap”, and get on with your life looking after the things that really matter - family, friends, ethics, your community, sports clubs and so on…  I guarantee you’ll soon be immune to all these manipulation industries and experience a far deeper satisfaction with your life.

      Reply

    • Sick of Eroding standards. says:

      05:21pm | 21/04/10

      She looks fat…and I wouldn’t be wearing that jumpsuit in white if I was her - in fact, I wouldn’t be buying that jumpsuit because she looks fat in it!! Which is the whole point really isn’t it?...she’s meant to sell stuff.

      Stop enabling fatties and an ‘anything’ is ok’ culture.

      Reply

    • Rich says:

      06:25pm | 21/04/10

      Obesity and anorexia are just rich country diseases, although I find anorexia far more forgivable due to the psycho womens magazines brainwashing young women.
        Obesity on the other hand is more a symptom of the “have it now, pay for it later” mentality in the west in regard to both money (Debt) and food (obesity).
        Fat is not a sign of good health. It is curious, however, that fat women have declared being fat to be perfectly acceptable because “everyone has a different body” or various underlying genetic and thyroid issues. These are mostly nonsense as they are simply excuses for their own behavior.

        I have fat family members and the endless excuses amuse me, ranging from they don’t have time or they need their cheese crackers and 3 glasses of wine every night. Their solution? Lapband. Again a typical rich country method of solving a problem…a quick fix to a long issue which are essentially personality problems. It’s like being up to your neck in debt and then buying a lotto every week. As to be expected lap band didn’t solve the problem, instead a second huge stomach now exists and they’re still as fat.
      It has even gotten to the point that my sister (fat) has declared my mother who is thin and toned to be too skinny and doesn’t eat enough. I think she is just observing the principle of not consuming more than you need.

      I know I sound very harsh and like a rotten person but you get to a point where kind words do not compute and making allowances for self inflicted problems only enables the problem. This is why I think there should be a national campaign to promote what a healthy weight is as well as increasing the medicare levy for those who do not maintain a healthy weight (unless there is an underlying genetic problem). Personal responsibility must be reintroduced to this society; no bailouts, no soft words because it is breeding a society that will end up like the humans in Wall-E.

      Reply

    • freeman says:

      08:24pm | 21/04/10

      So this model is a size 16 and looks ok. It’s hardly something to celebrate and the “fat look” doesn’t work for everyone. some on this thread will say that she is attractive but to the average male she will not be sexually attractive (ie someone they would see as a eligable partner or would particularly want to see naked) somehow in society there’s now more pressure for us to reach our intellectual potential but it’s politically incorrect to judge people on their physical condition

      Reply

    • Bon says:

      02:41pm | 22/04/10

      Why is it important that she be sexually attractive to a man?  Is that the only reason a woman should be on a magazine cover - to attract men? I despair for my daughters growing up in a society where their worth will be all tied up with how they look and whether they are “hot” enough.

    • freeman says:

      07:50pm | 22/04/10

      Bon, thanks for biting.
      meeting your life partner is one of the most important things in life for, say, 99% of the population? it’s a lovely thought to imagine that physical attraction plays no part in this but that is far from the reality. by all means teach your daughters that looks aren’t everything and that they don’t have to look like bikini models ect. teach them that intellect and personality are just as important as looks. but misguiding them on the importance of looking their best will put them at a disadvantage and girls who would model themselves on this overweight model will find meeting someone difficult or at least might find themselves settling for less.

    • Bon says:

      12:45pm | 23/04/10

      I agree that meeting a life partner is important for most of us, and of course physical attraction is important, for both sexes.  But I don’t believe that teaching my daughters how to “look their best” (whatever that means) will necessarily help them to meet a mate - if that were true, there wouldn’t be so many single men and women out there - nor do I believe that this should be the focus of their lives.

      What do I teach my son?  He doesn’t have to worry about his looks, but he should feel free to judge every girl he meets based on hers?

    • freeman says:

      07:28pm | 23/04/10

      No Bon,
      I said nothing about allowing males to let themselves go while females must focus on looks. the focus of this article is a female model who is overweight and the effect of that on females. Males don’t really model themselves on models and if they did a plus size male model would be laughable to them. parents who teach their children that it’s ok to be overweight are not helping them. you should teach your son and daughters that they shouldn’t celebrate being overweight if they are and that it is important to reach their intellectual, spiritual and physical potential to be truly happy.

    • Bon says:

      10:49pm | 25/04/10

      I really don’t think women are going to look at that model and want to emulate her.  I don’t look at her and think, gee I want to be fat.  But neither do I thinks she looks awful and unhealthy.  She is just a woman who wears a larger dress size than the average cover girl.  It’s not like suddenly we are going to see overweight people on the covers of magazines everywhere.  Which I why I really find it odd that people are finding it so distasteful on the grounds that it is somehow “celebrating” obesity.  How so?  It’ no more distasteful to me than the normal magazine fare, which celebrates being thin -  pictures of a super skinny model/celeb accompanied by an article on the latest diet fad, how to lose 10kg in two days eating crackers or something.  It’s not like it is accompanied by a headline screaming to women that fat is the new black.  No, this is just a novelty -the woman is just a sideshow.  “Let’s feature a fat girl this month, but next month we can go back to ultra thin models and the latest diet fad.”  I generally don’t buy glossy fashion mags because they are by nature designed to make women feel crap about themselves so they buy more beauty products/clothes they don’t need, and I am not going to start just because they might feature an average sized model.

      My children are not overweight, but I don’t think any parent who does have an overweight child exactly celebrates it.  There is a big difference between a parent telling their child it is ok to be overweight, and telling their child that it is ok to be who they are and they will love them anyway.  Kids need to know that they are ok - just as they are.

    • Kate says:

      08:48pm | 21/04/10

      For god’s sake, can we stop referring to women as ‘thin’ versus ‘normal’?

      I’m 5’11 and a size 8-10. At my height, that is reasonably thin. My thighs don’t touch, and I have visible ribs. And guess what? I’m normal. I don’t have an eating disorder, and I’m not an exercise junkie.
      Exercise and diet have a lot to do with it, but so does metabolism. Some women are just born with faster metabolisms, and are slim as a result. We don’t starve ourselves. So no, it is not acceptable to refer to us as ‘abnormal’. It is not okay to make snide comments about us having eating disorders. And we do not appreciate the assumption that we aren’t ‘real’ because we’re not curvy, voluptuous or just plain fat.

      Reply

    • Lauren says:

      09:01pm | 21/04/10

      *Rolls eyes* Alright, so in order for me to be on the cover of a fashion magazine I have to be either size 6 or size 16.

      They just love being so unique, don’t they. Anything the majority of people are not they embrace.

      Me and my size 10 self are just going to go and sulk now, thankyou.

      Reply

    • M says:

      11:36am | 22/04/10

      While I applaud putting plus sized women on mag covers as a way of changing people’s attitudes, there is also the danger of saying that it’s ok to be fat.

      I don’t agree with using superskinny models and actors for everything, but it can be just as harmful to be overweight, maybe even more.

      We would be better off promoting a healthy body weight, not plus sized bodies.

      Reply

    • JACS says:

      03:53pm | 22/04/10

      I think the model is beautiful.

      It would be nice if magazines featured models of different sizes and shapes all the time just like you would see out in the real world. Some people are taller, some shorter, some bigger, some smaller…etc etc We are all different and it would be nice if the fashion magazines showed those differences instead of just promoting one ideal of beauty.

      Reply

    • Saskia says:

      03:37pm | 23/04/10

      Since when are arteries clogged in fat, cellulite, type II diabetes and bingo wings sexy?

      Yuck.

      Bring back the models who look after themselves.  No more slob chic.

      Reply
 
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