On Tuesday, Tony Abbott implored his troops not to blow it. But some in the Coalition worry that it’s not their ill-discipline that could derail them so much as his unflinching faith in populism.

Like this race, the election lead-up is gonna be one heck of a long haul. Pic: Nathan Edwards.

Dragged to Canberra for an unwelcome interruption to his barnstorming “stop the carbon tax” tour, Abbott is solidly on track to become the country’s next prime minister. If there is an “embuggerance” to the plan, as military types say, it is that the next election is more than two full years away.

Still, his success is remarkable given how improbable it seemed when he emerged as the wild-card winner of his party’s late 2009 leadership conniptions.

Doggedly focused on the prize, Abbott’s warning to colleagues however, was not made in a vacuum, but rather, against a sense of growing disquiet.

The Slugger, as some have dubbed the one-time amateur boxer, has done brilliantly, often rocking an unsure government to its very foundations.

But boxing is about footwork too and Abbott must tread a fine line between keeping his team on the cusp of success on the one hand, while guarding against hubris on the other - the assumption they will surf into office on a wave of anti-carbon tax sentiment.

Clearly it is that optimism, buttressed by the polls and abetted by an at times, amateurish government, which has enabled him to keep the blow-torch firmly on his opponent’s belly without worrying about his own back.

And it was in that vein, that he cheerily told his party-room of a “tectonic shift” among the very people the Coalition needs to win over in 2013.

Indeed, thanks to the Coalition’s relentless hammering, the battlers, whom he observed were, “essentially conservative”, are quite “worried” about the Labor/Greens alliance and are even “horrified” by the Government’s mishandling of Australia’s borders.

Then came the rub. Success, he told MPs, can be “fleeting and ephemeral”. And precisely because they are so competitive, they are being “watched like hawks” by voters. The next election was a lock only so long as they did not lose their shape.

“The one thing we must do above all else is to let the public know their future is in safe hands with us - that is how we must conduct ourselves’‘.

If Abbott was hoping the pep-talk would quell the first rumblings of discontent, he had about 24 hours before concluding it had failed.

That’s how long it took for the Chief Whip (and his four assistants no less) to sign a letter and send it out via email to all Coalition MPs branding Malcolm Turnbull and others selfish and arrogant for missing a division. (BTW, it was not a vote on a bill but a procedural vote on a largely pointless adjournment debate)

In the context of the Opposition’s success, the leader’s plea the previous day, and the ever-present Turnbull/Abbott leadership rivalry, it was one of the most cumbersome and provocative gestures yet seen. “Knuckle-headed” was how one MP described it.

It was just one of several blips for Mr Abbott recently. Indeed, May 2011 could yet go down as the moment when the Coalition’s uncanny unity began to crack.

The Whips’ letter appeared as a churlish payback after Mr Turnbull had angered colleagues by outlining, in all its glaring mediocrity, the Coalition’s direct action climate change policy.

It also followed closely on reports of a spirited telephone stoush between Mr Abbott and his economic spokesman Joe Hockey over the latter’s view that the Opposition was in danger of standing for nothing.

Discontent is on the rise. Mr Abbott - a self-declared weather vane on policy - now faces criticism within and not just from one side of the party.

His reflex to oppositionism, exemplified by his stubborn refusal to commit to plain paper packaging of cigarettes for example, is a gift for the Government. He says the Opposition will declare its hand on the legislation only when it is tabled. Some Liberals are already talking about crossing the floor to support the measure.

It is, of course, a no-brainer. And it sends a confusing message to voters who think they know Tony Abbott. The reality is, the uber-fit former health minister can hardly oppose it and remain credible, yet his refusal to declare is gold to desperate government. Don’t expect to see the final bill soon - why end the pain, the Government says.

And don’t jump to the conclusion that the problems are all from the moderate left of the party. At the same partyroom meeting on Tuesday, the highly respected former finance minister, Nick Minchin weighed in.

The out-going Senator Minchin is arguably the best practitioner of politics in Canberra, but he is also known as a man of principle.

Sources have revealed he made an “impassioned” plea to reverse a decision to oppose the Government’s planned excise on LPG - consistent with long-standing Coalition policy. Unconvinced that blocking the revenue measure was sound, he argued that good policy was, in the end, good politics.

Typically, Abbott refused to back down, brazenly admitting that between policy purity and pragmatic politics, he’d take the latter every time.

The argument over LPG, is important not least because it represents a half-billion dollar revenue measure. As one MP told me, “we can’t keep agreeing with government spending measures opposing savings and revenue measures and keep our financial credibility in tact”.

This is the danger for Mr Abbott. While Nick Minchin is on the way out, others are increasingly concerned about their leader’s flippancy with hard decisions.

They say the LPG issue is a cipher for deepening fears that the Opposition under Tony Abbott risks fumbling its historic edge as the superior economic manager.

While Mr Hockey has taken a battering lately, some MPs - perhaps a growing number - think it may be him who has the toughest job in politics: trying to look financially tough and credible while his own leader leaves him “swinging in the breeze”.

152 comments

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    • Erick says:

      06:11am | 28/05/11

      “Still, his success is remarkable given how improbable it seemed when he emerged as the wild-card winner of his party’s late 2009 leadership conniptions.”

      It only seemed improbable to those who weren’t paying attention. To others, it seemed obvious that Brendan Nelson and Malcolm Turnbull were never going to be effective leaders of a conservative party, since neither of them were conservatives. And so, it was unsurprising that when an actual conservative became leader, the party’s fortunes revived.

      Labor-supporting commentators, on the other hand, were blinded by their disdain for Abbott, and repeatedly predicted his demise. But this was merely wishful thinking. After Abbott’s conspicuous success, such commentators blamed “populism” and “three word slogans”, in order to avoid acknowledging the fact that Abbott’s main policies represent what most Australians actually want.

      Now the best hope for Labor is that somehow Tony Abbott will be overthrown in a leadership coup - which is unlikely since Liberals know darn well that he is the cause of the party’s surging popularity. Alternately, the apparatchiks try to convince themselves that Australians will somehow change their minds, and welcome a great big new tax that was based on blatant deception of the public. Both these ideas seem based on yet more wishful thinking.

    • acotrel says:

      08:31am | 28/05/11

      ‘The Slugger, as some have dubbed the one-time amateur boxer, has done brilliantly, often rocking an unsure government to its very foundations.’

      Abbott didn’t look too steady on his feet when his latest hypocrisy was pointed out in parliament?  Offering platitudes to the cancer council while accepting big cash from the tobacco lobby is not a good look!

    • Felipe says:

      09:27am | 28/05/11

      Erick, you nailed it on the head.  I agree fully that the media has suddenly started the negative news about the Coalition.  I think this is because there are no more good news about their much loved Labor.  I just read that Labor’s Green partner is so angered by Gillard’s Malaysian solution that they are putting a motion to stop this in parliament on Monday.

    • Zaf says:

      09:28am | 28/05/11

      [Abbott’s main policies represent what most Australians actually want]

      Whether the policies will work or not.  Hence populist.

      Exhibit A: open ended direct payments from tax payers to power generators to ‘do the right thing’ without having any mechanism in place to hold them accountable if they don’t.

    • persephone says:

      10:02am | 28/05/11

      actorel

      let alone going empty handed to a fund raiser for the Cancer Council and then having to borrow money from a staffer!!

      I suppose the free lunch was what he was after - after all, a man who had to refinance his mortgage to cover his personal expenses should be grabbing all the freebies he can.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:07am | 28/05/11

      Actually I think that many Australians don’t think highly of Abbott or Gillard. Next election will be who to choose as the least worst option. Expect the informal vote to rise as some Australians will put “none of the above” on their ballot.

    • Michael says:

      10:24am | 28/05/11

      Well said Erick!

      Persephone, ha that’s an unusually personal attack…of course Tony does have that power over you doesn’t he…hey i wonder if maybe you were spurned by Tony on one of your lecturing circuit meetings, or maybe it was whilst developing policy with Mr. Abbot that you discovered your passion for the man.

      Cheers smile

    • Seano says:

      10:33am | 28/05/11

      “I agree fully that the media has suddenly started the negative news about the Coalition”

      I don’t know what’s funnier conservatives screaming “media bias” whenever there is even the slightest ripple in the duck pond or expecting that a party that is using negativity as it’s main tactic would be immune to the reporting of negative things going on in the party room.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      11:35am | 28/05/11

      Erick

      Love it when you are first! You are good and we that have nothing but trust and respect for what Tony Abbott has achieved since he became leader of the Opposition can always rely on your comments for a better Australia under him.

      When we think back to the day, the Coalition lost to Kevin Rudd and people like Costello, Downer leaving the Liberal Party, people that we wanted to remain there to re-build the party, Tony Abbott has done great wonders. I felt Brendan Nelson was someone that was chosen for the sake of having a leader during a dismal time for the Coalition. Then when Turnbull took over, it seemed OK, but the Party didn’t seem to be going anywhere and allowed the Rudd Govt smooth sailing. We all came to the understanding that it would take at least 2 terms of the Rudd Govt for the Coalition to even think they stood a chance of winning an Election.

      Today, we are having unresolved problems with climate change and if Tony Abbott didn’t know what he wanted we would have had an ETS and Kevin Rudd would be still our PM. I have no doubt, that with Turnbull the Rudd Govt wouldn’t be challenged and everything would have remained smooth sailing for PM Rudd and no PM Gillard. I find that Tony Abbott will do what he believes in but will turn to pragmatism when necessary. Naturally, sometimes there will be robust differences in the party when dealing with certain issues but to go on and on about the leadership as an excuse to the downfall of Tony Abbott is ridiculous.

      It is unbelievable that jurnos like Mark Kenny would harp on about the tension they like to think is happening in the Coalition ranks. By all means mention it but don’t beat it to death as if we are school kids that we can’t think for ourselves and make up our minds about how trivial such a topic would dominate the airwaves for a week when there are more important issues which affect the nation and its people on the agenda. I wouldn’t have minded if the Gillard had the carbon tax, mining tax, asylum seekers, plain cigarettes packaging, pokies, health reforms etc sorted out and how it was going benefit all Australians.

      How about the media concentrate on how this wonderful country is becoming a Nanny state because of the the type of Govt we have been landed with? How Gillard will get away with lying to the people because it seems the carbon will get through and doesn’t matter how hard Tony Abbott works on his negative campaign against it because the Greens in alliance with Gillard Labor will get their way? How Wilkie will get his way with the Pokie machines because he is propping up the Gillard Labor? etc etc So much to scrutinize about this Gillard Labor Minority Govt and we get a week of Turnbull v Tony Abbott who really can’t do anything for the country and its people because they are in Opposition.

      Kudos to the jurno that refreshed us we some easy reading. The new found friendship of Gillard’s boyfriend with the Queen. Never know it might be the very thing that will save Julia Gillard from Tony Abbott taking over her job.

      We have become a laughing stock internationally, even the Solomon Islands have taken advantage of our generosity they want our asylum seekers and be part of John Howard’s Pacific solution. Each day we get more and more frustrated because we are stuck with a “Can’t Do Anything Govt” whose first priority is their survial to remain in power!

    • jf says:

      12:05pm | 28/05/11

      persephone says:10:02am | 28/05/11

      “I suppose the free lunch was what he was after - after all, a man who had to refinance his mortgage to cover his personal expenses should be grabbing all the freebies he can.”

      The fact that a man who has dedicated the majority of his life to public service is not wealth says more about his character not less. I tend to be sceptical of people who have devoted their lives to public service and are wealthy. Like Hawke, Keating, Whitlam, Combet, Shorten, Richardson, for starters. Every single man on this list not only spent their whole lives working for either the union movement or the Labor Party. Where on earth could all that money have come from?

    • Joan says:

      01:14pm | 28/05/11

      @ Rosie

      Speaking of beating it to death, no wonder nobody will listen to you anymore.

    • persephone says:

      01:37pm | 28/05/11

      jf

      understanding how the economy works.

      Shame to see a conservative knocking people who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps - isn’t that what you guys think people should be doing?

      Unless you believe that people who are born poor should remain poor, which would be positively medieval of you.

      I mean, how DARE people in Labor be rich! How presumptuous of them!

    • jf says:

      02:35pm | 28/05/11

      persephone says:10:02am | 28/05/11

      Furthermore Perse, on the topic of managing personal finances, during the last election Julia Gillard went to great lengths to establish a link with the typical Aussie battler by declaring that she was managing a mortgage on her modest little suburban home.

      For a women who has been a partner at a law firm and then a senior politician, without the financial burden of children to not have paid off what is ball accounts a modest home is pretty remarkable. She’s either a liar or an imbecile.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      03:42pm | 28/05/11

      @ Joan alias The Badger Harassing Again

      It is music to my ears when I hear comments coming out of people like yourself. As long as it said about me and Julia Gillard’s Federal Labor Party and not Tony Abbott I am not in anyway offended. I am not forcing anyone to listen to me and it won’t ruffle my feathers if the people have stopped listening to Gillard, unlike yourself. However, I would be terribly disappointed if the people stopped listening to Tony Abbott, the alternative PM.

      I have just finished listening to Tony Abbott’s morally, spiritually and convincing speech in Melbourne which was uplifting and stimulating. What he said made more sense than what Gillard Labor Party have tried to tell us since after the formation of the Minority Govt.

      You are so predictable - you will resort to personal attacks when you can’t add to the debate because you can’t find stuff to defend your precious incompetent Gillard Labor Govt.

      I read something today which compliments the type of people that involve themselves with this Gillard Labor Govt. The fuss that was created by the media over the appointment of Karl Bitar by one of Australia’s richest powerful men, was not pointed out by the media, that Packer in one move had bought Australia’s Labor Party.

    • jf says:

      03:45pm | 28/05/11

      persephone says:01:37pm | 28/05/11

      “Shame to see a conservative knocking people who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps - isn’t that what you guys think people should be doing?”

      That’s a disingenuous ad hominem Perse and you know it. I’m not knocking anyone that’s worked hard, taken a chance and put their capital at risk. I’m full of admiration for many of the very wealthy entrepreneurs that have been born in poverty or who have come to Australia as penniless immigrants and through a combination of hard work and measured risk taking build fortunes. Their money came as a return on the capital they put at risk and the businesses they build. So, where did Bob Hawkes wealth come from again? Graham Richardsons? Paul Keatings? Out of the pocket of the workers the union movement first, then the taxpayers and then the workers again.

      No-one, regardless of their circumstance should retire mega-wealthy after a life of public service.

      “Unless you believe that people who are born poor should remain poor, which would be positively medieval of you.”

      No I don’t Perse. Anyone, rich or poor, that takes a chance, works hard and takes a risk deserves the opportunity for a return. I don’t believe that someone should make extraordinary wealth from public service.

      “I mean, how DARE people in Labor be rich! How presumptuous of them!”

      Three ad hominems in a row. Apart from the rank hyocrisy of those in the Labor Party criticising a system that makes them rich, I have no problem with anyone who works hard, takes a chance and puts their capital at risk becoming risk. I don’t think that anyone should earn abnormal money from public service. That goes for both sides of politics.

    • Seano says:

      04:19pm | 28/05/11

      “For a women who has been a partner at a law firm and then a senior politician, without the financial burden of children to not have paid off what is ball accounts a modest home is pretty remarkable. She’s either a liar or an imbecile. “


      Well the third option is that you’re making ridiculous assumptions knowing nothing about Gillard’s personal finances or commitments to justify making dumb and nasty comments.
      .

    • jf says:

      04:57pm | 28/05/11

      “Offering platitudes to the cancer council while accepting big cash from the tobacco lobby is not a good look! “

      Anyone with half a brain would recognise that you can disagree with something whilst at the same time not banning or prohibiting it.

      I don’t smoke and don’t like smoking. I despise censorship more.

    • persephone says:

      05:53pm | 28/05/11

      jf

      by ‘understanding how the economy works’ I meant making wise investments which paid off.

      Obviously none of the people you name became wealthy through ‘public service’.

      I take it that you think someone who takes their savings and invests them wisely - as Keating did, I really don’t know about the others - is doing something wrong.

      Most wealth, btw, is built on workers; it’s a rare entrepeuner who has no staff.

      I take it - from your list - that your problem isn’t people who become wealthy and who happen to have been in public service, but Labor people who became wealthy and happen to have been in public service - I can’t think of many ex Howard Ministers, for example, who are living in squalor, but none of them seem to have made it to your list.

      If you want to pretend that you’re being fair and impartial, be a little more even handed in your criticisms. Otherwise of course you’re going to get ad honiwahtsit attacks, because you deserve them.

      (Except I didn’t make ah attacks, as I didn’t attack you personally, I attacked your assumptions. An ah attack is where you insult the arguer, rather than dealing with their argument.

      So if I’d said “jf, you’re obviously a one eyed buffoon’ that would be an ah. I didn’t do that).


      I wasn’t aware Tony Abbott was criticising or restricting the tobacco companies. I thought he was doing all he could to support them.

      As I said, to do this and then attend a cancer function isn’t a good look.

    • jf says:

      05:57pm | 28/05/11

      Seano says:04:19pm | 28/05/11

      “Well the third option is that you’re making ridiculous assumptions knowing nothing about Gillard’s personal finances or commitments to justify making dumb and nasty comments.”

      Could be, but I doubt it. She didn’t correct the assumption when she was called on it during the election. Furthermore, if she doesn’t want comment on her personal finances she shouldn’t bring them into the public debate in an opportunistic, cynical and dishonest attempt to align herself to the average Aussie battler.

      I note that you didn’t chip Perse for doing the same thing despite the fact that whereas Gillard brought her personal financial situation into the debate in an effort to further her interests, Abbott’s were brought to the debate by his opponents in an attempt to discredit him.

    • Seano says:

      06:27pm | 28/05/11

      I’m not criticising you for commenting on Gillard’s finances. I’m criticising you for making ridiculous assumptions to justify your conclusions as a platform form for your typical nasty, mindless, right wing vitriol.

      Perse didn’t do the same thing at all champ, she pointed out that it should be acceptable for people on the left to be rich too. She didn’t make a fairly nasty comment based on a weak and unfounded assumption.

    • Joan says:

      07:24pm | 28/05/11

      @ Rosie

      You were the one complaining just the other day that none of your family and friends would listen to you anymore. I was just agreeing (and sympathising) with them.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      07:25pm | 28/05/11

      Persephone “Most wealth, btw, is built on workers; it’s a rare entrepreneur who has no staff.”

      rubish, most wealth is built on understanding and creating value. Staff are compensated for the value they bring to the business. The net of all the value created and expended by the business is returned to the shareholders for the risk they take with their capital.

      Your error is to assume staff deserve a return on someone else’s capital without taking a share of the risk. Socialism. Staff are an essential part of business and there rewards are based on the value they bring not on the return on capital invested.

      It is however an interesting insight into your set of values.

    • Front Row says:

      07:30pm | 28/05/11

      Spot on, Erick.
      Paul Keating nailed Nelson - forever - when he said he liked him more when he wore the earring.
      What went wrong for Labor?  They had the most brilliant minds. Had.

    • AAAdam says:

      08:43pm | 28/05/11

      So, Labors plan to win the next election is to cross their fingers and hope Abbott shoots himself in the foot? Lol. Then again, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Labor would never win on merit given their current (lack of) credibility with voters after the carbon tax lie and their (poor) performance on just about everything to date. All compounded by their absurd propensity to keep telling voters they are wrong whenever they voice a concern (i.e. Nope, your wrong about feeling financially worse off according to our NATSEM figures. And nope, you’re wrong about us lying about a carbon tax. And nope, you’re wrong; the Malaysian solution isn’t inhumane and it’s not anything like the pacific solution). They’ve obviously lost their way and completely stopped listening to and representing the Aussie people’s interests. So I suppose crossing their fingers and hoping Abbott stuffs up bigtime is probably their only option for the next election.

    • persephone says:

      10:00pm | 28/05/11

      Sony

      your error is not to read or understand things properly. We’re talking about public servants versus private wage earners.

      Very few businesses can make money without workers. Even fewer can make money without customers, who tend to be workers.

      To decide that some wealth is OK, because it came from the general community handing over their dosh and other wealth isn’t, because it came from the general community handing over its dosh, is simply silly.

      If I buy goods from a company, or services -via taxation - from government, it’s the same money from the same source.

      To denigrate the person who receives a wage from my expenditure because their wage comes via taxation and not via my private purchases is creating a false dichotomy.

      In both cases, the worker is worthy of their hire.

      If the worker is extra smart and re invests that money to make more money, it’s equally irrelevant whether she he or it earnt that money in the public service or in private enterprise.

      To further single out Labor parliamentarians and denigrate them for being wealthy, whilst apparently not applying the same standards to the other side of politics, is simply hypocritical.

      AAAdam

      no, Labor’s plan is to press on and keep putting in place innovative and forward thinking policies such as health reform, the NBN, the carbon price, a common school curriculum, etc etc etc, in the belief that once these are bedded down, the tide will turn.

      And if it doesn’t, they’ll have left a hell of a legacy, large chunks of which will stay in place.

      Progressives always win, even when they lose.

    • acotrel says:

      08:18am | 29/05/11

      @jf
      ‘Anyone with half a brain would recognise that you can disagree with something whilst at the same time not banning or prohibiting it. ‘

      Who mentioned banning anything - only you?  My question is - what does Tony Abbott stand for?  It’s pretty obvious he’s simply opportunistic, and what he says depends on his audience!  It’s all about his own career, - not about ethics, caring, managing risk or anything else esoteric or constructive.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      08:53am | 29/05/11

      Joan alias The Badger Harassing Again!

      Thank you for reminding me that my friends and relatives have not even a year after the last Elections have already made up their minds that they will vote for Tony Abbott in the next Elections and therefore do not want to waste another second of their time discussing the infamous lying Julia Gillard.

      Guess I can’t help myself so come here for my daily political fix. Believe me I am trying really hard to cut back, but when you start harassing, I find it hard to ignore you. I just wish what you say would be more productive to the debate and not me trying to defend myself and others because of your personal attacks.

      Badger the Harass - I see the real Joan has become aware of your game ‘Lets play duplicity.’ Suddenly you decided you want Rosie commenting for your side so used my name. I had to change my name over to No 1 Rosie. Then you went on to Joan and in another thread Joan has found you out. Why do you keep harassing? Is it because we hit the nail every time we make comments and you have nothing to use as defense to justify your love for the incompetent, useless Gillard, Labor Govt. Stop wasting other people’s time as well as your own.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      09:51am | 29/05/11

      “Very few businesses can make money without workers. Even fewer can make money without customers, who tend to be workers.”

      Again you are clearly overvaluing “workers” everything it seems is based at the expense of workers. Apparently workers don’t get compensated for the value they create for a business. Baloney. It’s a unionist world view to shift profits from capital to labour. Hang on that sounds like socialism, some mythical war between labour and capital. Ignores the fact that the two depend entirely on each other and are necessary for each other, No business, no jobs. No jobs no business.

      “To decide that some wealth is OK, because it came from the general community handing over their dosh and other wealth isn’t, because it came from the general community handing over its dosh, is simply silly.”

      Well no it’s not silly persephone, because taxation is not earned its purely taken from people that have earned it. So there has to be a very good reason why you would want to take any money from the private sector and use it to create jobs in the public sector.

      “If I buy goods from a company, or services -via taxation - from government, it’s the same money from the same source. To denigrate the person who receives a wage from my expenditure because their wage comes via taxation and not via my private purchases is creating a false dichotomy.In both cases, the worker is worthy of their hire.”

      Only as far as we tolerate taxation and consider it well spent, once government oversteps the boundary between tolerable taxation and appropriate spending then that boundary has been crossed and becomes a core injustice. We are about 200 billion over that mark now.

      Let’s step back and look at first principles, the government works for the people not vice versa, we are not here to feed delusional spending nor grand empire building.

      “To further single out Labor parliamentarians and denigrate them for being wealthy, whilst apparently not applying the same standards to the other side of politics, is simply hypocritical.”

      The public only understand too well that “progressives” disdain wealth, and target it at every opportunity so when a labor politician accumulates wealth it is seen for what is: hypocrisy.

      What’s the first thing labor did when it got in power? Raise the luxury car tax. Was there some reason for doing so other than to punish success?

      “Progressives always win, even when they lose. “

      And therein lays your grandest delusion, that the counterproductive homogenising policies that reduce everything to a single shade of grey are in fact something positive. The reality is far different. One only has to look at Greece, Spain and other socialist democracies and see how sustainable mass redistribution actually is. The USSR collapsed from a thoroughly dis-incentivised population. China is groaning and creaking at the seams from compounded errors of central control and its collapse can only be prevented by extreme authoritarianism. The Nordic countries have succeeded in chasing out most billionaires and many millionaires and still have rampant inequality in the form of pareto distributions, and to boot they do have a very high taxation and the double whammy of very high cost of living compared to less “socialised” countries.

      Progressives are delusional creatures who think everyone needs to be pulled back to the mean. Show me one country where this has actually been sustainable or has worked?

      Progressives breed poverty and mediocrity.

    • AAAdam says:

      01:07pm | 29/05/11

      @ Pers - “no, Labor’s plan is to press on and keep putting in place innovative and forward thinking policies such as health reform, the NBN, the carbon price, a common school curriculum, etc etc etc, in the belief that once these are bedded down, the tide will turn. And if it doesn’t, they’ll have left a hell of a legacy, large chunks of which will stay in place.”

      So, in a nutshell, Labor is telling the Aussie public to go f*ck themselves when they say they don’t want a carbon tax, malaysian solution and that there costs of living are increasing. Labor is instead hoping people will just magically change their mind about these issues before the next election, rather than listening to what their constituents are saying right now. And even if they don’t change their mind Labor doesn’t really care anyway, because they’ll have half implemented these policies anyway so the public will be stuck with them. Well, to that, I say f*ck you Labor; you aren’t representing the Australian people, which is your only job! You are just a bunch of self serving wankers representing yourselves and your own interests.

    • persephone says:

      01:46pm | 29/05/11

      Sonny

      you clearly haven’t understood the argument, so there’s no point trying to explain it to you again.

      Wealth is wealth, money is money; money earnt through public service is neither better or worse than money earnt through private enterprise.

      full stop.

      AAdam

      yes, a bit like Howard with a GST (which he didn’t have majority support for) and the war in Iraq (which polls showed was massively opposed).

      That’s why populism doesn’t work; governments do have to make long term decisions in the public interest, and sometimes the public doesn’t see things in the long term.

      I remember a friend coming back from America and saying how difficult it is to change anything there, because if the change isn’t polling well, pollies wont’ support it.

      At the time - over twenty years ago - the example used was the move from paper money to coinage.

      In Australia, people whinged and moaned about the evils converting paper dollars to coins would bring. It was a massively unpopular move.

      Within a couple of months of dollar coins being introduced, it was no longer an issue.

      Meanwhile, in the US, they still haven’t been able to make that change….twenty years later.

      Because Australian governments - of all persuasions - have not been afraid to make unpopular decisions, we have tighter gun controls, universal Health care, no death penalty, compulsory seat belt laws, and generous social security provisions.

      All of these were massively unpopular moves, which would not have been introduced if governments hadn’t had the guts to stare down public opinion and make the right decisions for the long term.

    • AAAdam says:

      05:36pm | 29/05/11

      Pers, what you describe is not democracy. It is authoritarianism. This is what concerns me the most. Our current government is no longer listening to the people or representing their interests. They are just doing whatever they want and the justification as to why (i.e. because they “know” better than voters or because they are looking “long term”) is entirely irrelevant.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      06:38pm | 29/05/11

      Pers I think it’s you who doesn’t get it. Is money earnt from the drug trade no better or worse than money earnt from retail trade? Money is money you said.  Is money earned from government spending that does not have electoral support any different from theft?

      AAdam, you are talking to a socialist. Who believes that when a free market yields a Pareto distribution, ie one of vast inequality, that it’s not fair and that the socialists job is to create social justice by redistributing rightful earned prosperity.

      Replace Market with blog links and a socialist thinks it’s not fair that a few blogs get all the links while the “underprivileged” get virtually nothing, and their job is to right this wrong.

      Replace market with Olympic runner and you get the same phenomena, a Socialist believes that an Olympic runner who wins gold has an unfair advantage and should have a leg cut off and given to a less “fortunate” runner to create equity.

      Progressives are not sane, it’s difficult to have a rational conversation with them because facing up to cognitive dissonance is worldview shattering and they will avoid it all costs.

      There is no greater reality distortion field than that created by lefties, where theft is fair, slavery is freedom and authoritarianism is a necessity for imposing of the superiority of leftist’s world views.

    • AAAdam says:

      08:43pm | 29/05/11

      Sony - Well said mate. I believe that once a government stops listening to and representing the general public, for whatever reason, the Governor General should step in and sack them. It also sickens me when politicians start claiming they are making “unpopular” decisions because they know better than the general public. What qualifications politicians have to even back up such decisions is even more questionable. Perhaps I’d give them the benefit of the doubt if they were a leading expert in the relevant field, but the reality is no politicians are such experts; they are just self interested deadsh*ts pushing an authoritarian agenda.

    • persephone says:

      09:03pm | 29/05/11

      And yet progressives are winners.

      History shows this.

      Society moves forwards; it changes; it doesn’t stagnate or regress.

      That’s what progress is.

      As changes progressives supported and conservatives oppose become part of the landscape, conservatives accept them as the new ‘norm’ and support them, conveniently forgetting that if they had ‘won’ the change would never have happened.

      So don’t worry, guys. In twenty years’ time, you’ll be telling people that you always supported action on climate change, and that it was a pity that governments didn’t act earlier.

      Because I bet you’re not still whinging about how changing from paper dollars to coinage was going to bankrupt the country.

    • persephone says:

      09:47pm | 29/05/11

      So, AAAdam and Sony, on that logic I take it that you now support the flood levy, the freeze in family payments for those earning over $150k, and plain packaging for cigarettes, all of which (polls show) have overwhelming public support.

      If not, please explain how governments should determine whether what they’re doing is ‘in touch’ or not.

      Polls show us that people often initially oppose ideas they end up supporting. How would you work out whether a particular policy - unpopular initially - was going to end up being a winner or not?

      Politicians have far more resources available to them when making decisions than an ordinary person does. They have whole Departments doing the research and giving them advice. They don’t need to be experts in any particular field to evaluate this: indeed, one of the premises of our democracy is that they don’t have to be - they make decisions on the basis of what the mythical ‘reasonable man’ (who underlies much of our justice system) would decide, given the evidence available.

      You seem to want to change this to a system whereby decisions are made by the masses. How does that work? The general public don’t have the time or the energy to read the hundreds of pages of documents politicians do before they make decisions.

      Of course, what you really mean by all this is that your side lost, our side won, and you think the umpy should step in and reverse the decision.

      But you don’t have the guts to say that; instead, you dress it up as a philosophical argument about the nature of government.

      If Abbott was in at the moment, pushing legislation through Parliament which polls showed were wildly unpopular, you’d be arguing that he was governing in the country’s best interests.

    • jf says:

      04:44pm | 30/05/11

      Seano says:
      06:27pm | 28/05/11

      Back for me Champ?

      “typical nasty, mindless, right wing vitriol”

      Settle down Champ. She’s a proven liar and proven as finically incompetent.

      If you think any of what I said is nasty or vitriol you just need to wipe away those tears and leave the game.

      I’d like you to show me anything that I have said that is “right wing”. I’ve made this challenge before and you’ve failed to front.

      As for, mindless, your opinion Champ. Not so mindless that you thought you needed to respond though.

      “She didn’t make a fairly nasty comment based on a weak and unfounded assumption.”

      So her comments about Abbott’s personal finances were fair and balanced, despite the fact that he never brought them into the debate, and my comments about Gillard’s mean and nasty despite the fact that she brought them into the debate in an effort to advance her own interests?

      So, my assumptions on Gillard’s finances are mindless whereas Perse’s are fair and reasonable?

      Your really have lost it Seano.

      Persephone

      “I take it - from your list - that your problem isn’t people who become wealthy and who happen to have been in public service, but Labor people who became wealthy and happen to have been in public service.”

      Not at all. My issue is with people who make risk-like returns without taking risk. This includes plenty of conservatives including a lot of overpaid company executives, quite a few on the conservative side of politics (particularly in Qld in years gone by) however I cannot think of a single conservative politician that has made the same sort of money that the men that I named after a lifetime in politics. All the wealthy conservative politicians made their money before they entered politics.

      “Most wealth, btw, is built on workers; it’s a rare entrepeuner who has no staff.”

      I agree. And the balance is well and truly in favour of the worker (particularly with the very low employment that we currently enjoy and your side keeps on boasting about). My comments relate to risk. The key difference between a business owner (entrepreneur) and the employee is that the former is taking a risk. They are not only typically putting their own capital at risk but taking the risk that if the business doesn’t make a return (as most don’t in the early years) they won’t earn anything and may have to invest back into the business. Employers (no matter how skilled or hard working) do not take this risk. Why would a plumber ever start a business if they risked their savings and capital as well potentially not earn anything if the best they could expect was to earn what a QBuild plumber earned (with their job security, guaranteed income, paid leave, 37.5 hour week and other benefits).

      “Except I didn’t make ah attacks, as I didn’t attack you personally, I attacked your assumptions. An ah attack is where you insult the arguer, rather than dealing with their argument.”

      Where did I say you attacked me personally? If I said “you’re so lost in the argument that you need to make stuff up to defend” then, well, I guess I’d be right. Furthermore, I didn’t even say that your ad hominems were attacks. I said that your defenses of my criticisms were ad hominems: and I’m right.

    • jb says:

      06:55am | 28/05/11

      And…..... cue Nossy
      Our very own Minister for misinformation or is it Mr No himself who represents nothing but blind love for Juliar the mugger or could it be the Mr Limp for his bromance with the Stooge Turnbull himself…. Last time I checked there were only 2 Advertising/pr moguls that now live in Qld and from the same ol broken record pretty sure I never worked for our nos so one has to say from his big man syndrome the only audience he ever had was his campaign punch, oh so sad…
      Come on tiger show us what you got today? Anything new or you still dinning on that slogan you came up with 20 years ago?
      yep, I know who you are…...

    • Mattb says:

      07:47am | 28/05/11

      Gee jb
      really got a thing for old nossy there haven’t ya, he hasn’t even posted yet and your already attacking him. Maybe you should take a quiet walk and enjoy this wonderful Saturday morning instead of sitting in front of your computer responding to non existent posts from nossy. Life isnt all about argueing with someone you dont even know in the blogosphere. Get some fresh air eh…...

    • TChong says:

      07:55am | 28/05/11

      jb
      Lest you get mistakenly accused of being over angry, best to put a wink
      at the end of such a personalised comment.
      Any casual observer/ reader might get the wrong idea.

    • nossy says:

      08:24am | 28/05/11

      @jb - Booooooooooooooooooooooooo !  hahahahahahahha Made a fortune fella - retired now !

    • The Badger says:

      10:35am | 28/05/11

      jb is a pretty shit scotch as well.

    • jf says:

      12:25pm | 28/05/11

      nossy says:08:24am | 28/05/11

      “@jb - Booooooooooooooooooooooooo !  hahahahahahahha Made a fortune fella - retired now !”

      Classic Labor. “Everyone should share the wealth except for me”. “The free-market system is bad except when it works for me”. “Behind every fortune lies a great crime”.

    • john says:

      03:47pm | 28/05/11

      @ jf “Behind every fortune lies a great crime”....one has to ask, if one has such a vast fortune, why is it that the PUNCH is the only place you find them?

      To me it seems more like a great lie than a great crime

    • jb says:

      05:08pm | 28/05/11

      Oh please I am in Berlin it’s midnight, I haven’t been in OZ since last september so don’t give me that ‘haven’t you got anything better to do’ anyhows after a fine feed at the Chateau and a nice bottle of Kubota it was time to anticipate the dribble that spews from you guys… no anger just sick of the same ol same ol, oh and look there it is, the same ol line from the crusty ol ad man further down the line… dribble and lies, need a hand being fed boys?

    • nossy says:

      05:25pm | 28/05/11

      @jf - hey fella I think you put your undies on the wrong way round today !  hahaahahah

    • jf says:

      05:59pm | 28/05/11

      john says:03:47pm | 28/05/11

      @ jf “Behind every fortune lies a great crime”....one has to ask, if one has such a vast fortune, why is it that the PUNCH is the only place you find them?

      Huh?

      “To me it seems more like a great lie than a great crime”

      You’d have to check with Balzac on that.

    • Super D says:

      06:59am | 28/05/11

      I’ve noticed that the supposedly knowledgeable political media has moved from “Tony Abbott is unelectable” to “Tony Abbott can’t hold it together long enough to win”.

      The same fools think that having a legislated carbon tax will be a positive for the Government at the next election - as if having delivered the biggest political lie in the nation’s history is a good thing in the eyes of the electorate!

      Turnbull, like Windor, Oakeshott, Bandt and Wilkie is only relevant today dues to the tight parliamentary numbers.  My opinion is that if the Libs look like winning Turnbull won’t stand again.  He’s smart enough to know he’d be on the back bench within a month of a Coalition victory.

    • TChong says:

      07:48am | 28/05/11

      “Turnbull… .on the back bench within a month…,”
      Says a lot then about the “broad church ”  of the LNP.
      From yur analysis it appears that only a very increasingly conservative ideology is now welcome.
      The LNP of Abbott, Robb, Abetz would be as unrecognisable to Ming, McMahon, Gorton, Fraser and Anthony, as the ALP of today would be to Chifley, Curtin, Whitlam etc.
      Two political parties trying to out Right the other. Not good.

    • Joan says:

      11:01am | 28/05/11

      @ SuperD

      “the supposedly knowledgeable political media has moved from “Tony Abbott is unelectable” to “Tony Abbott can’t hold it together long enough to win”.”

      Well they were right the first time.

    • Joan says:

      02:18pm | 28/05/11

      What a hoot another Joan on the block/blog.  Hey phoney Joan at 11.01am believe me nothing beats the original- and that`s me.  .... go buy a ticket to the desperates ball ... that`s more your milieu…. would seem cross-dressing is your style.

    • Joan says:

      03:06pm | 28/05/11

      @ Joan

      Do you actually have anything to say about my comment?

    • Gregg says:

      07:28am | 28/05/11

      Mark, I would have thought that you would have been quite familiar with the quite distinct traits of Labor and the Libs for whereas it is usually for the former that MPs will not freely express personal views for fear of the axe at midnight, Liberal MPs are not so bound.
      Try for instance getting a word out of Senator Chris Evans the former Immigration Minister on where the back of the queue is for he was quite publicly adamant as minister that there was never a queue, even if it is somewhere up to 15M peoples long.

      Tony sure earned his shoulder pips in taking the fight up to Labor at the election and just as surely it is going to be up to all ministers and not just him alone that can shape the next election fight and whilst their greater party freedom on personal views is well known, it will still be policies and values that smart voters should consider.
      More so than the carbon tax alone, it will be Gillards decision to tell the electorate one thing during a campaign and then do the opposite and claim she had to because of their Green alliance that people will still remember, a choice re excise on LPG hardly of any meaning other than being seen for what it is and another tax grab.

      Just as the Libs do need to be stronger on financial policy and that means having something to stand for and being clear on it, it is not going to be easy given the Labor spendathon to have an enormpous deficit to be clawed back from.
      Labor on the other hand get no merit for creating the massive pendulum swing from surplus to deficit and an attempt to return to surplus, all the time considering one BIG NEW tax after another and Abbott is correct in recognising that the LPG excise is just more of that.

      It does not need a financial genius to remember that the former Liberal government took a number of years to return a surplus budget from previous Labor deficit years and a smart person on either side of politics would know that it is consistent financial management and not that of a pendulum swinging nature that will be best for the country.

      As for the cigarette labelling and
      ” His reflex to oppositionism, exemplified by his stubborn refusal to commit to plain paper packaging of cigarettes for example, is a gift for the Government. He says the Opposition will declare its hand on the legislation only when it is tabled. Some Liberals are already talking about crossing the floor to support the measure.”
      Expecting to have legislation presented before comment is hardly not the norm and it is an opposition’s role to review legislation, why in deed we have a parliament, as childish as it may seem at times.’
      ” Don’t expect to see the final bill soon - why end the pain, the Government says. ” being a perfect example.

      Would Labor not better spend their time considering how they can hope for Australia to have any control over how selection of refugees from Malaysia is to be managed, let alone how asylum seekers to be transported there will be treated - days of ” Transportation for the term of your natural life ” coming back is it, Gillard from the mother country and P.O.M.E maybe having something to do with it.
      We have had a good refugee system that works in conjunction with the UNHCR and it would seem Gillard is hell bent on destroying it just as Labor is systematically destroying a lot of our values - and that is what people will hopefully be considering at the next election.

    • persephone says:

      08:40am | 28/05/11

      ROFLMAO, Greg

      When Liberal MPs express personal views, they get labelled ‘political terrorists’.

      Petrou Georgiou was regarded - before he inconveniently started expressing his personal views - as a shoe in for a Ministry. Instead, he was consistently passed over for lesser lights who stuck to the party line.

      Ditto Moylan. Her advancement in the party came to a sudden halt.

      And now Malcolm has expressed a few individual opinions, has the party faithfull - or the party itself - applauded him for being a free thinker?

      No - as numerous posts here over the last few days confirm - he has been roundly condemned by Coalition supporters and has had a very deliberate attack made on him by the party Whip.

      What’s cute about this is that many of the same votes Malcolm is being chastised for missing were also missed by Julie Bishop and Tony Abbott.

      As for cigarette labelling: credible Oppostions put their cards on the table before legislation is released. That way they can claim some of the suggestions as their own, whilst deploring the fact that the government hasn’t listened to them on others.

      Not having a position on an issue which has been out there for at least a year just fuels the idea that Abbott doesn’t want to risk upsetting anyone, least of all tobacco companies who are making handy donations to his campaigns.

      ‘We have had a good refugee system that works in conjunction with the UNHCR” - er, when? Prior to Howard’s changes after 2001? Because the UNHCR didn’t approve of Howard’s refugee system, which deliberately parked refugees in areas where the UNHCR had no sway.

      The ‘Malaysian solution’ is at least in consultations with the UNHCR - the ‘Pacific’ one openly defied them.

      If the only way you can defend your side of politics is by re writing history, Greg, you have serious problems.

    • acotrel says:

      08:46am | 28/05/11

      @Gregg
      ‘Mark, I would have thought that you would have been quite familiar with the quite distinct traits of Labor and the Libs for whereas it is usually for the former that MPs will not freely express personal views for fear of the axe at midnight, Liberal MPs are not so bound.’

      You are typically deluded like most LNP supporters.  Read ‘What’s wrong with the Liberal Party’ by your own Greg Barnes !

    • Joan says:

      09:57am | 28/05/11

      Roxons cigarette so called plain packaging is a hoot….. looks like straight from one of those `fun` shops ... where you can buy scarey things that go pop, stink bombs , rotten false teeth, anything ghoulish to amuse the young. Kids just love anything that is crass, ghoulish, stinks and goes fart. The evil eye on Nicole`s ciggy box comes straight from science fiction alien film ... we have seen it regularly enough on TV and it is looking more friendly every day. The rotten teeth straight from a horror movie and just about as scarey will go well with any gothic outfit. Will Roxon packaging scare kids off smoking?. no siree in fact it could go viral, if adults hate it, kids will love it. And if you were are traveller wouldn’t you buy a packet even if you didn’t smoke just cos it is so ghoulishly weird- found no where else in the world… Nicole Roxen design packaging. Come to think of it I`ll go buy a pack and keep it for posterity , it won’t last , and smoking will conitinue infinatum. No need for Abbott to support Roxen drive in marketing cigarette sales.

    • Max Redlands says:

      10:47am | 28/05/11

      @ Joan

      Speaking as a reformed smoker I agree. If the horror-show pictures now on display don’t put you off (and in my case they weren’t a driving factor in making me want to quit but they were a constant reminder of why it would be a good idea)  I don’t see how the State issue “no brand” look is going to have much further effect.

      When the present gruesome graphics came along I expected to see an increase in the use of personal cigarette cases but that doesn’t seem to have been the case.

      I think the anti-smoking drive has done it’s best work. The changes in advertsing rules and the banning of smoking in public places have had good effect on reducing the appeal of the habit.

      As with most drugs those who use them habitually are not the only ones who suffer from it. How many children (aaaargh - think of the children!!) but seriously how many children from homes already stretched for resources (i.e. the big $$$) have that situation exacerbated by the fact their parents are choofing away thousands of dollars a year.

      And here ends my rambling.

      Thank you

    • jf says:

      05:54pm | 30/05/11

      persephone says:
      10:14pm | 28/05/11

      “And I do love how all of you guys have become all concerned about the conditions of refugees all of a sudden. Such a touching conversion!”

      And I do love how you all of a sudden want an offshore solution aimed at stopping the boats. Such a disgusting conversion.

      It is possible to support a solution aimed at stopping the boats out of genuine humanitarian concern even if is less than perfect whilst opposing a solution that requires sending refugees to a place that routinely flogs refugees and houses them in squalor.

      However, it is rank hypocrisy and political expediency to support this cruel, expensive and clumsy solution having argued against previous solutions.
      Particularly where the latter solution has all the hallmarks of yet another monumental financial, human and logistical SNAFU.

      I’ll bet you wash your hands everytime you defend this policy.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:36am | 28/05/11

      Lets just recap some….not all of the ALP’s ‘winning’ points so far:
      - Carbon tax and the associated lie
      - The asylum seeker Malaysian solution debacle
      - Capping of PBS listing of medications…........
      - Decrease Medicare rebates especially in radiology/pathology
      - Increase health insurance rates
      - Lets remind everyone of those home insulation deaths and the hefty cost of it all….....

      Yup, it is unlikely Juliar and cronies will win the next election, plus the public has already built up lots of rage against the Greens/Independents which they will ALWAYS associate with Gilltard’s government.

      And while it isn’t impossible for this government to get more money from somewhere, it will be impossible for Gilltard and friends to gain more intelligence to come up with the policies and plans to win. Hell they haven’t done squat since ‘07, and they collect a paycheck? How corrupt is that? smile

      Keep hammering them at the polls lets get under 15% by July!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Joan says:

      08:02am | 28/05/11

      Add to that list of jobs going off shore… eg Heinz moving off shore. ... just weeks after Swans dud budget brag jobs,jobs, jobs… Swan moving jobs offshore

    • persephone says:

      08:48am | 28/05/11

      Yes, pity the media lied about the difference between a carbon tax and a carbon price. They understood the distinction in the lead up to the election.

      Oh, you mean the solution which has already seen refugees saying they won’t bother coming to Australia?

      Yes, because governments have to make responsible economic decisions. Oppositions don’t, which is just as well, because Tony isn’t up to making any.

      Let’s remind everyone that safety standards for home insulators were improved, and the industry is safer for it. And that a million homes were insulated, meaning ongoing energy savings which benefit both those householders and the planet.

      This supposedly inactive government has passed more legislation into law in eight months than Howard could manage in twelve.

    • Joan says:

      10:01am | 28/05/11

      Persephone; Biggest political lie of the century belongs to backstabber Juliar pre-election ... There will be No carbon Tax.

    • Joan says:

      10:27am | 28/05/11

      Swan responsible for Australia…. he`s got in wrong, what happens in other nations is up to their leaders to answer to their people. Swan and Gillard on track to wreck Australian manufacturing and industries

    • luke says:

      12:42pm | 28/05/11

      ATM, the carbon tax alone will be enough to bring down the very dishonest Gillard, she is an electoral weapon of mass dishonesty.

    • Against the Man says:

      12:59pm | 28/05/11

      Juliar is a backstabber - Fact.
      Juliar is a liar - Fact.

      With Australians - singles and families feeling the financial pressures mounting, this is going beautifully on track for a MASSIVE ALP loss!

      Hey just keep lowering her poll results guys, that is the best way to teach Miss Gilltard a lesson for her incompetence! Next month she will qualify for a $600, 000/ year pension, if she wasn’t doing her job before qualifing for the pension, do you honestly think she is going to actually work hard after she qualifies for it?

      Malaysian solution??? HaHaHaHaHaHa too incompetent for words!!!!!!!

      Enjoy paying more for medications and health insurance, remember to send Roxan/Gilltard/Swan your thank you cards! smile

    • persephone says:

      01:51pm | 28/05/11

      Abbott is a liar - FACT.

      Abbott makes promises and then reneges on them - FACT.

      Abbott stabbed his leader in the back - FACT.

      Abbott had a reputation, when in government, of economic irresponsibility - FACT.

      Australians of all persuasions - whether single, pensioners, families with children, whatever - are considerably better off financially then they were under Howard - FACT.

      Malaysian solution already identified by refugees as a reason not to come to Australia - FACT.

      Next month, Labor and the Greens will control the Senate - FACT.

      Next month, the Coalition will be irrelevant in both Houses of Parliament, unless they ally themselves with the government or the Greens - FACT.

    • jf says:

      02:58pm | 28/05/11

      persephone says:09:54am | 28/05/11

      “Gee, he’s even responsible for the closure of two factories in Europe and two in America. Powerful guy.”

      Heinz closing all factories in Australian whilst keeping 76 open around the world and opening them elsewhere such as New Zealand (really just re-locating from Australia to NZ - now why would they do that?). Golden Circle closing factories in Australia .

      Yep. He is a powerful guy. If only he would use his powers for good.

    • jf says:

      03:03pm | 28/05/11

      persephone says:01:51pm | 28/05/11

      “Abbott is a liar - FACT.”

      Name one.

      “Abbott makes promises and then reneges on them - FACT.”

      Name one.

      “Abbott stabbed his leader in the back - FACT.”

      The change of leadership from Abbott to Turnball was transparent and democratic and not initiated and executed by unelected party hacks.

      “Abbott had a reputation, when in government, of economic irresponsibility - FACT.”

      Name on act of economic irresponsibility.

      “Australians of all persuasions - whether single, pensioners, families with children, whatever - are considerably better off financially then they were under Howard - FACT.”

      Utter, utter, utter lie. Are you really that out of touch with the electorate Perse? You really need to leave your office on the hill.

      “Malaysian solution already identified by refugees as a reason not to come to Australia - FACT.”

      Oh Perse, you must have felt dirty defending this policy.

      “Next month, Labor and the Greens will control the Senate - FACT.”

      “Next month, the Coalition will be irrelevant in both Houses of Parliament, unless they ally themselves with the government or the Greens - FACT.”

      How convenient your convictions are Perse. I thought that you had “no truck” with the Greens.

    • Against the Man says:

      03:46pm | 28/05/11

      jf, pers is a ALP troll caught by the balls and this is the usual childish respond. I take it that by focusing on Abbott it is pers’ way of saying we should hold Abbott accountable as he is the legit PM and Gilltard as the fake PM is allowed to get away with blue murder.

      By the way I think I’ve struck another nerve with the ALP zombies and I’m going to enjoy watching them twirl in pain…..........

      Bluescope Steel chief executive Paul O’Malley said a high Australian dollar and higher interest rates were creating a tough environment for the manufacturing, education and tourism sectors as Australia rises on the back of the resources boom.
      “Throwing a carbon tax on top of that basically says no we don’t want to be anything but a resources economy,” he said.

      A report says billions of dollars raised by Australia’s carbon tax will end up overseas, helping poor countries battle climate change. Yes because ALL Australians are doing well, what was that in the news yesterday about 12% of Australian kids living in poverty…...........?

      The Westpac-Melbourne Institute measure of consumer sentiment dropped 2.4 percent in March with concerns about the federal budget and tax issues considered the major issues at play for the drop. It now sits at its lowest level since June last year.

      Looks like the carbon tax from the liar Gilltard is going to do us lots of good…....................remember to voice your anger at the next polls!

      HaHa…....this is gonna get sweeter smile

    • persephone says:

      03:46pm | 28/05/11

      jf

      ‘rolled gold promise on Medicare safety net’ - even he admits he broke that one.

      Pledge not to introduce any more taxes….broken within a week by the proposal to tax businesses to provide paid parental leave.

      Going to the 2007 election as a supporter of the ETS.

      The transition of leadership from Rudd to Gillard was professional- initiated and carried out by elected Labor MPs, as is their right (please, this is something I know from the inside. Paul Howes put his hand up AFTER everyone knew what was going to happen - a lot of other people also claimed credit after it was a done deal. The true initiators are very rarely named).

      Costello, in his memoirs, complains that Abbott showed no fiscal responsibility as Minister and that he, Costello, had to find extra money all the time to make up for this.

      Both the figures from NATSEM (average family better off by $23 A DAY) and OECD (rates of taxation vs. return from government) clearly show that all income groups are better off now than they were five years ago.

      There are no studies which suggest anything else.

      No, any policy which stops people dying to come to Australia is fine by me.

      I personally have no truck with the Greens. That’s me, as an individual.

      That doesn’t mean the party shouldn’t. As a responsible, government, their aim is to get policy through Parliament. Just as Howard negotiated with Mal Colson, Brian Harradine, the Democrats and whoever else it took to do so.

      Of course, there is no reason why the Greens should have any power in the Senate at all - if the Liberals believe this is leading to poor decisions being made, which are not in the interest of Australians, there is no reason why they can’t work with the government to avoid that.

    • luke says:

      05:20pm | 28/05/11

      Julia Gillard has ginger hair not red, fact.

      Julia Gillard is dishonest, fact.

      Under Julia Gillard, Australia has incurred the nations biggest debt ever, fact.

      The carbon tax will not reduce carbon emissions, fact.

      Julia Gillard agrees that Howard’s pacific solution was correct and the only way to stop people smugglers, even though her ill thought torture camp solution won’t get the Greens support to start, fact.

      Bob Brown will control parliament in less than a month, fact.

      I can write facts as good as the next person, fact.

      I like the word fact, fact.

    • jf says:

      06:05pm | 28/05/11

      “No, any policy which stops people dying to come to Australia is fine by me.”

      Oh Perse, please. You do not. You are a better person than that. This is a dispicable, evil policy. You can’t possible support this policy Perse. It makes the Pacific solution look like band camp.

    • persephone says:

      06:13pm | 28/05/11

      luke

      OMG! A woman who dyes her hair!

      (Reagan did. I think Howard blacked his eyebrows a bit, too).

      Actually, I think you’ll find the debt was Rudd’s. And I’m not sure it is the biggest ever - I can’t find any evidence either way. Please supply what you have.

      How can something be a ‘fact’ when it hasn’t happened? If we’re going to work on assumptions, let’s go with those of the experts - which is that a carbon price will lower emissions.

      Otherwise what are you going by - tea leaf readings?

      No, she doesn’t and never has. Fact.

      Absolutely no reason why Bob Brown should control anything. If he does control the Senate (pretty neat trick, when he can’t even introduce legislation into the Lower House), it will because the Liberals let him.

      Pretty pathetic list, Luke, with very few FACTs.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:35pm | 28/05/11

      I remember when Pers fiercely defended Ruddy ol’ boy and then when he got back stabbed…...........when Gilltard backstabbed Rudd she basically showed zero respect to the ALP voters (the majority who wanted and still want Rudd as PM). So Pers have you sold your pride and dignity to support Gilltard when she so clearly has no regard for the people of Australia and what they want?

      Mr Arbib where are you….....................? :0

    • nossy says:

      06:50pm | 28/05/11

      @persephone - I think “jf"may just be good old MarKy persephone ? Possible - this may be his weekend moniker ?  hahahahha

    • luke says:

      07:46pm | 28/05/11

      persephone, I agree it is a pathetic list, tell the PM to lift her standards.

      But you have admitted yourself that the carbon tax benefits are not guaranteed, and relying on assumptions of others. Experts once called Pluto a planet, experts once thought smoking wasn’t harmful, experts thought introducing the cane toad would be beneficial etc….. experts are constantly challenging facts as science is never settled.

      OMG, Howard dyed his eyebrows. What a shocking fact.

      Brown may not introduce legislation into the Lower House but he sure can block it in the senate. He is in a very powerful position.

      Gillard does agree in concept of Howard’s pacific solution, otherwise she wouldn’t have come up with her ill thought torture camp solution or been in contact with PNG and East Timor.

    • Tator says:

      08:51pm | 28/05/11

      Persephone
      “pretty neat trick, when he can’t even introduce legislation into the Lower House”  actually he can, Adam Bandt can move a private members bill on the Greens behalf and considering that he could probably hold Gillard to ransom if it wasn’t passed byt the ALP, it would probably go through.

    • Steve Smith says:

      09:43pm | 28/05/11

      Joan
      Tony Abbott is the one calling it a ‘carbon Tax, along with his propaganda ministers on 2GB.
      In The Australian this story, “Julia Gillard’s Carbon Price Promise, written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan on August 20, 2010 @ 12.00Am.
      “Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next Term.”
      The only part Tony Abbott doesn’t understand is that it’s a Carbon price, not a ‘Tax’ like he is echoing around, and his radical redneck followers kept reciting it like it some ‘Gospel Truth”, which it isn’t and never was, only in Tony Abbott’s mind.
      Tony “No” Abbott obviously had a very simple education and it appears that he was only able to learn one word during his childhood and adult life.
      No wonder he was speechless when Mark Riley interviewed him when the only word he knows how to say is “No”

    • persephone says:

      10:14pm | 28/05/11

      luke

      oh, beat me to death with a wet lettuce leaf, why don’t you…it’s like trying to debate a week old stick of celery.

      AtM

      yes, because no matter who the leader is, it’s the same party.

      We of the left aren’t into leader worship in quite the same way you guys are.

      The Malaysian solution is a good one. Stopping people getting on boats in the first place - as distinct from letting them get on them, and then turning them around, or letting them make the voyage and then dump them somewhere where no one can check on them - is a desirable outcome.

      As is improving the lot of refugees in Malaysia, which the increased scrutiny this will bring will do.

      Sort of like Fraser’s solution to the VIetnamese boat problem.

      And I do love how all of you guys have become all concerned about the conditions of refugees all of a sudden. Such a touching conversion!

    • Steve Smith says:

      10:33pm | 28/05/11

      It would appear that Tony Abbott and some of his colleagues are out to stick the knife into Malcolm Turnbull, via a leaked “Email” ,
      Tony “Don’t believe everything I say ” Abbott has mastered ‘the art’ of lying,and unless it is carefully prepared written statements,it is not “The Gospel Truth”
      From ‘The Australian’, this story: “Abbott should show some respect”,written by Peter Van Onselen, on May 28, 2011 @ 12.00 Am.
      These Paragraphs I found interesting:
      ” Telling lies(or being misleading to be a little kinder) seems to be contagious in the coalition at the moment, when I spoke to Abbott’s senior media advisors on Thursday he told me Abbott had no knowledge of the email until after it went out. his office had been pushing that line all over the place. Thanks for the spin, but now we know it to be false.
      ” Then there is Abbott’s hypocrisy in authorising the Entsch email, remember when Turnbull was leader and the vote for or against the government’s stimulus package happened,Abbott slept through no fewer than five divisions”
      Perhaps this ‘Email” can be known a “Abbottgate”

    • luke says:

      03:34pm | 29/05/11

      persephone, you have hit a new low by spruiking the benefits of the torture camp solution by conveniently omitting the daily canings that occur. But you need not talk up the benefits anymore because the Greens have said publicly they will stop it from happening.

      Julia Gillard is a weapon of mass dishonesty and needs an actress who job is to portray fiction to sell an uneeded carbon tax.

    • acotrel says:

      10:16pm | 29/05/11

      @Joan Swann and Gillard are not responsible for wrecking Australian industry.  It was Thatcher, Reagen and economic rationalism.  The free market is not a level playing field.  We still have some adjusting to do!

    • Anubis says:

      12:26am | 30/05/11

      Morning AtM - You forgot the East Timor solution (that was a doozy)

    • nossy says:

      08:21am | 28/05/11

      And lose it he will Mark - AGAIN ! Lets not forget good old Tones has already lost one election already - the 2010 one when Labor was on the ropes and all that was required was for someone with the charisma of a “dropped pie” to scoop up the win - but thank goodness Labor had a secret weapon - yes good old Tones - or as we now know him by his deeds “Dr NO” !  hahahahah This week , and thank god for the Liberals , we saw the re-emegence of their only possible winning leader one Malcolm Turnbull. Turnbull of course, playing the game of politics, has downplayed this, as per the linked article, saying he “is not after Tones job” ! Fatal words for Tony The One trick Pony as they will ring in his ears as he is bundled from the leadership in due course - timing is everything ! My guess is Tones will don the Lycra this weekend as he does when under pressure and go for a big bike ride. Malcolm sees no reason whatsoever to let a leader of such “ruffage” ever get his hands on the keys to the Lodge and for that alone we will all owe him a debt of gratitude !
      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/turnbull-denies-hes-after-abbotts-job/story-fn59niix-1226064450804

    • Felipe says:

      09:55am | 28/05/11

      Nossy,  you are hoping against hope that there will be a leadership change in the Coalition.  However,  your dream may turn to nightmare in the coming election.  For starters,  Gillard is down in the dumps in almost all States except for SA & Tas and even these two states are having their own problems.  Swan the amateur is so ridiculed that he looks like a frustrated man in parliament and just makes himself look like a cry baby.  Bowen is always so incensed when asked about his Malaysian solution that he shouts at the Coalition when asked in parliament.  Combet “well south of 40” is a troubled man managing impossible tasks whether it be batt insulation or the great big new carbon tax.  Roxon the pugnacious attacker copying Gillard is so full of herself lying about the $1B health cut that was not a cut.  I can go on and on to describe the Labor ministries.  But this is enough for the day.

    • acotrel says:

      08:37am | 28/05/11

      It’d almost be worth seeing Abbott become PM.  It’d probably finish the conservatives forever!  It’d be great to see the look on the faces of the believers, if the idiot really got going.  I cannot understand how anyone could ever support him, when he’s never made any constructive visionary statement in his full political life?

    • I think and I vote says:

      09:12am | 28/05/11

      And you are living proof that some Labor voters are completely out of touch with the majority of the public.  When you knock down working man values for long enough - sport, church, family people will go to the party that supports them.  Labor has forgotten its roots.

    • The Badger says:

      08:39am | 28/05/11

      Keep hope alive suckers
      If a day is a long time in politics, then how long is 2 years gonna feel like?
      The power of the right wing and howard era dinosaurs are on the wane.
      The lies and innuendo budget has been spent and all they have left is the fear mongering change left in the petty cash tin and a dog whistle howard left when he slithered off into the darkness. The veneer is coming of the NoPosition party and the voters are watching the lack of substance being exposed.
      This gets better by the day.
      Abbott gone by August.

    • PolyWatcher says:

      09:51am | 28/05/11

      Who says “two long years” until the next election.  Wilkie hasn’t pulled the plug on Gillard yet!!  Watch this space!!

    • Wrentham says:

      10:32am | 28/05/11

      Well, Badger did say
      Keep hope alive suckers
      Looks like he was including you PolyWatcher.

      You honestly don’t think that Wilkie (remember the good relationship he had with Howard?) would turn government over to that idiot Abbott do you? You know, Abbott the ex health minister who doesn’t even know if he supports the tobacco legislation?

    • Farkurnell says:

      08:40am | 28/05/11

      Tony’s claasic oppistion small target strategy is sufficent for State politics
      but wont work for a potential PM.Oz expects more regards some kind of vision in this increasingly complex world.Just promoting policy of a return to the good old days is very naive, particularly with the younger voters.Tony’s lazy approach of just pointing to the govt.‘s failings places him in the onetrick pony class.Voters want to see a potential PM who can think on his feet, can tackle difficult situations, that will no doubt arise in the future, and not just follow party dogma blindly.The current Julia V’s Tony reminds me of Beasley.Voters generally had enough of JWH’s policies but just weren’t confident enough that Beasley would make a good PM.Given Tony’s past TheVoters may just be inclinded to vote for the Devil they know opposing the one they dont know.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      11:56am | 29/05/11

      I think its reached the stage where the public doesn’t care what the opposition policies are because there is no way they can be worse than what the government is foisting on us, in fact anything has to be better than the prosperity destruction that is in labors DNA. Hell I would vote for the sex party or the outdoor recreation party before I would give labor and agrarian socialist green party any preferences.

    • Daniel says:

      08:56am | 28/05/11

      I think Abbott feels ripped of from the last election and he has been in election mode ever since. I’m wondering though if he made a deal with the cross bench would he be so keen?

    • Steve says:

      01:05pm | 28/05/11

      One assumes that is a rhetorical question Daniel.

    • Martin Hopes says:

      09:03am | 28/05/11

      Conservative voters are actually delusional and living in denial. The coalition did not go close to winning the last election; it was Labor who tried their hardest to lose it.

      The appalling list of failed government policies, the undemocratic sacking of our PM by the faceless men of unelected Labor heavyweights, as ATM says above - ‘how could these cronies win an election’? - Well guess what? - they did and the reason why Labor won is obvious to all except for the deluded - the loss by the coalition was solely due to the unpopularity of one person Tony Abbott himself, if any other person had led them to the last election then the coalition would have romped it in, as conservatives keep bleating on about ‘how bad the government is’ - how the hell did Labor retain power? - Until the coalition realise the toxicity of Abbott then Labor will stay in power.

      Abbott cannot keep this negativity and stand for nothing stance going for another two years, eventually the people will want to see him offer alternative policies, and something it seems he is incapable of doing.

      In the meantime, ALP popularity will begin to rise (it can’t get any worse, the base is around 30 points), people will realise that the sky is not going to fall with the implementation of a carbon and mining profits tax, while Abbott will still be running around with his three word slogans and negativity - another big time fail for Abbott is looming.

    • Harris says:

      10:57am | 28/05/11

      What policies of Abbotts aren’t you aware of? He has a Direst Action policy to deal with climate change until there is a Global Agreement, he has a border protection policy which everyone is aware of, he has a maternity leave policy which everyone is aware of, he has a policy on broadband incoroporating wirless into the future. They have said their migartion policy is to ensure two thirds of our permanant migartion will be skilled migration, This “Abbott has no policies campaign” launched by Labor and the media is rubbish. Accusing Abbott of slogans (Mr No, fear campaign, blocker, wrecker etc )  and also saying NO to anything Abbott represents is a bit precious isn’t it.

    • Ben81 says:

      11:25am | 28/05/11

      What garbage, we’re talking about fighting an election against a first term government here and he did exceptionally well.  The Coalition ‘won’ just as much as Labor did, and didn’t wipe the floor with Labor only because Julia Gillard hadn’t shown her true form yet and they were given a second chance by too many people.  The polls say he is only doing better. 

      “people will realise that the sky is not going to fall with the implementation of a carbon and mining profits tax,”
      Both will increase the cost of Australian products and the cost of living with little to no real world benefit, i’m not sure where that sits on your ‘meh’ to ‘the sky is falling’ scale but it’s somewhere on the upper end of mine and anyone who isn’t irresponsible.

    • buckyboy says:

      11:36am | 28/05/11

      MARTIN HOPES his delusion will one day be cured.

    • persephone says:

      01:44pm | 28/05/11

      Harris

      no, he has a Direct Action policy full stop. It has no clause about a global agreement - that was Malcolm’s suggestion. We know how much MT is listened to in the party room when it comes to action on climate change.

      A policy on broadband incorporating wireless into the future. Oh, the comedy.

      How many transmission towers would it take to cover the country with wireless technology? Have you ever SEEN what happens in a local community when Telstra suggests it will put a mobile phone tower up? Do you think that the Coalition would have the guts to face that kind of pressure?

      All to end up with a second rate service incapable of delivering speeds one hundredth of those fibre is (and probably more likely a billionth, given the speeds being achieved now).

      And that’s it. You’ve listed all the Coaltion policies, less than half a dozen of them.

      And these are the guys who are telling us they’re ready to govern tomorrow.

    • Harris says:

      03:00pm | 28/05/11

      Persephone - I’m sure your well aware of where they are ALL listed.
      http://www.liberal.org.au/Policies.aspx
      They may not be to your liking, but the ongoing mantra of “Abbott has no policies” is a fallacy and I’m sure your also aware of that.

    • mervyn ford says:

      03:34pm | 28/05/11

      labor did not win the last election, check your facts first, they needed the greens and 2 of the independents ( one stupid, the other a egocentric nutjob) to form a coalition, now they are paying for it

    • Mark says:

      07:30pm | 28/05/11

      Direst Action policy FTW ! Thanks, Harris.

    • acotrel says:

      08:27am | 29/05/11

      @Harris would you put a link up directing us to clear statements of policy by Tony Abbott? One liners are not policy statements!

    • Mikko says:

      10:05am | 29/05/11

      No good having policies which you can’t deliver, as Labor has proved over and over since Kevin 07 was elected and then was back- stabbed by Gillard - Petrol Watch, Grocery Watch, Pink Batts, the wasteful BER, East Timor solution, Murray Darling Basin Plan, soon to be joined by the set top box rollout, the NBN delivery which seven people in Tony Windsor’s electorate enthusiastically embraced and the big one, the hypocritical, ineffective carbon tax on our ‘big polluters’ while we keep expanding our coal exports by many millions of tonnes over this “critical decade”.

    • persephone says:

      01:53pm | 29/05/11

      Mikko

      so these policies simultaneously weren’t delivered and were massive stuff ups?

      A bit of a contradiction there.

      Petrol Watch wasn’t delivered because the Opposition blocked it in the Senate, so that’s not the government’s fault.

      The BER delivered every school community in Australia new school buildings, with minimal ‘waste’ identified.

      The Pink Batts program saw over one million houses insulated, which means ongoing savings to the householders and the environment.

      You really should stick to fishing. You’re not much chop at argument.

    • John says:

      10:03am | 28/05/11

      @Farkurnell @ nossy - I doubt voters will vote for a party where 747KR has flown further than 1969 moon landing, where a once healthy budget at this rate will look like the debt of PIGS per capita, where wasteful spending on so many levels has spark unnecessary interest rate hikes, burdened with new taxes to an already squeezed electorate. Over 2 million Australians are below the poverty line and over 100,000 Australians are homeless, in contrast we need to spend 30-40Billion on the NBN so desperately? Perhaps Tony’s local basic inward looking approach towards Australians rather than being a global extrovert is something people want these days, and clearly the polls indicate at this rate his ’ local, I’m your neighbor, here to help.’ approach will see him win in a devastating landslide that Barry O’farrel won in NSW with his ‘local’ approach.

    • persephone says:

      11:00am | 28/05/11

      And what in your list has changed since the last election, when they did?

    • john says:

      03:42pm | 28/05/11

      @persephone, nothing, its better that way. If anything the waste and incompetency is gone or going.

    • persephone says:

      06:15pm | 28/05/11

      John

      If things are on the improve, as you say, then we can expect that they’ll be so good by 2013 there’ll be no reason for Labor not to get up.

    • Richard says:

      10:04am | 28/05/11

      I always look forward to your articles on Saturdays Mark, and this is another excellent one (although I’ll admit, you did lose me a bit towards the end there). 

      In this day and age of post GFC politics, I really think that incumbency has become a huge electoral disadvantage for governments. There are so many things that can go wrong, so many hard decisions that have to be made, that they’re bound to piss someone off. And the longer a government survives, the more and more people it pisses off, just by going about its day-to-day business of governing.

      Its an unforgiving business, and as long as Oppositions are sensible enough to adopt a “small-target” strategy, then Governments will fall sooner rather than later at precisely the same rate as they manage to piss people off.

      And this is where Labor fatally miscalculated their strategy last year. First they mooted their RSPT lunacy, and pissed off a whole bunch of people in the mining industry, (not to mention superannuants, some of whom might have misguidedly believed that is was an tax on their actual super). It was a disgusting policy and it pissed alot of people off.

      So then Rudd decided to run government ads to counter the mineral council’s ads, and pissed off even more people by being a hypocrite. Rudd’s authority from this whole series of mistakes was fatally impaired. So then the Union hacks, smelling blood in the water, exercised ruthless vengeance on Rudd (they had long held a grudge against him from 2007 when he made the decision to select his own cabinet rather than be forced to accept their choices) and installed Gillard as the puppet PM. But this was a disastrous blunder as well, because it pissed off pretty much the whole state of Queensland (who are very parochial), which swung badly against the government at the subsequent election.

      But the government did just manage to scrape enough seats together to hang the parliament, and managed to bribe or coerce enough independents to support them in parliament, and just managed to retain a tenuous grip on power. So far so good, but then they made their most disastrous blunder of all. They were seduced by the Greens, broke their word to the electorate, and set about imposing a carbon tax. This act pissed of about two-thirds of the voting public, and there is no way back for them now.

      While it is entertaining to watch the internal struggles between Abbott and Turnbull and Hockey, and it certainly doesn’t help them garner credibility as an alternative government, but it doesn’t really matter, and the government would be foolish to be feeling gleeful about it all, because its just a sideshow. The critical matter remains “how many people are pissed off at the government”. Unless the government can find a way to make it up to the people they’ve pissed off (*hint, it involves ditching the Greens, abandoning the carbon tax, and making a public gesture of atonement towards Kevin Rudd), then they are merely dead men walking, living on borrowed time.

    • nihonin says:

      11:01am | 28/05/11

      Agree Richard, but it is fun watching all rusties tear strips off each other

    • Maree says:

      01:13pm | 28/05/11

      Richard: Well said. I think you have summed it well. I mix with a wide range people from professionals to blue collar workers. When the political discussion comes up, there are a few statements that stand out. 1. They understand that most policians lie, and accept this is what they do to get power. 2. That the greens are damaging the ALP. 3. Why did Julia say “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” and now she wants one. As for Tony Abbott, most of the ‘blue collar’ workers like him much better than Julia, but line ball with Kevin Rudd.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      05:24pm | 28/05/11

      @Richard. So let me get this straight. You are opposed to a carbon tax which would prevent the big polluters from continuing along their merry way and polluting for free as they have always done, but you have no problems with the Coalition’s inequitable alternative to give them taxpayers money to stop doing this. If you take the Opposition’s figures, they say this will cost $11billion; treasury modelling at least double that.
      You think a scheme to make the mining industry pay its fair share of tax “disgusting”, and see no problem with the fact that they were getting away with paying less than half the basic rate of income tax as it stood.
      You must really hate Australia Richard, that’s all I can say.

    • Ben81 says:

      06:34pm | 28/05/11

      @ Steve Putnam - “a carbon tax which would prevent the big polluters from continuing along their merry way and polluting for free as they have always done”
      Ah yes, they’ll just keep doing it while the price of Australian products and utilities are driven up as they simply pass on their costs to consumers who are then compensated with the revenue collected.  A cunning plan.  Take that, climate change!

      /seriously, this is becoming a joke

    • Richard says:

      06:55pm | 28/05/11

      You call them “Big Polluters” Stevie P, but I call them “Big Producers”, and I guess this is the difference between you and me: you are a shallow, simplistic thinker who has never bothered to stop and ask: “What really is wealth? How is wealth produced? Does it really matter if our Nation produces wealth or not?”

      Because you see do I love Australia Steve Putnam, and I love every Australian (yes, even the “Big Australian”: BHP), and I care about our future as a Nation, and I’m concerned about what will happen if we put a ubiquitous tax on production. And lets be frank, that’s what the carbon tax is. Production requires power as a vital input. There are no other alternatives at this point, its coal power or nothing for years to come. And even then, the only viable alternatives to coal for the foreseeable future are really only gas (which is extracted via the environmentally damaging “fracking” process, in violation of our Aussie farmers’ rights), hydro or nuclear (the development in Australia of both of which were blocked by the Greens in the 1980’s).

      So when there is no other option but to use the kind of power that we’ve got, any plan to arbitrarily and unnecessarily inflate the the price of that power acts as a direct inhibitor of production.  How can anyone who loves Australia support such a plan to destroy her means of production?

      I’m sure you don’t think it matters if our Nation doesn’t build anything, if our workers get laid off and sit around on the dole. I’m sure you don’t care about our ability to export and our terms of trade and what would happen to our living standards if we had a carbon tax imposed upon us. In your simplistic mind the wealth producers of this country are just “Big Polluters” and we’d be better off without them.

      But in a modern, industrial, globalised economy, productive capacity matters. Do you think its any wonder that China’s power is becoming ascendant and the USA’s power is waning? Its because China is the world’s factory. During and after WW2, the USA was the world pre-eminent producer, its no coincidence that they were also a superpower nation. But now China is fast becoming the world’s pre-eminent superpower, and any action of ours to unilaterally impose a carbon tax in Australia without requiring China (the world’s largest carbon emitter) to also commit to the same scheme is foolhardy in the extreme.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      10:40am | 29/05/11

      @Richard. “I’m sure you don’t think it matters if our Nation doesn’t build anything, if our workers get laid off and sit around on the dole”. Quit the rhetoric for once will you. I take it then that you supported the stimulus packages?
      When it comes down to it, Australia is a big polluter with the second highest per capita rates of greenhouse gas emissions in the world and is 17th overall, meaning about 200 contries produce less co2 than we do. Victorian power stations using lignite (brown coal) are the dirtiest in the world and have been phased out in other countries. When the iron curtain fell, the former communist states of Eastern Europe got rid of them despite their economies being in ruin, because life expectancy in regions such as Bratislava was actually found to be falling as a result of their pollution. You know as well as I do Richard, we can’t just continue to burn fossil fuels because they are a finite resource. Our long term economic viability demands we develop renewable energy strategies. In doing this it is essential that the whole country from the lowliest household to BHP modifies its behaviour and the spur to action is putting a price on carbon.
      I see the Business Council has requested a price of $10 a tonne for carbon so maybe you should fire off a letter to them stating your credentials as a deep, profound, thinker and urging it to re-think this impetuous decision.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      12:15pm | 29/05/11

      “You know as well as I do Richard, we can’t just continue to burn fossil fuels because they are a finite resource”

      Australia has about 300 years worth of coal left. What’s the rush? Pollution is already extracted from electricity generation. There is no rush just some out of control ideology of trying to reduce everyone back some average or worse still make everyone poor again. Great plan.

    • Ben81 says:

      12:46pm | 29/05/11

      @Steve"meaning about 200 contries produce less co2 than we do”
      ...and if those 200 or so countries **completely shut down** right now, us included, we might only just cut more emissions than the top handful will replace in a matter of months to years. It would hardly even cut 1/4 of the worlds c02 emissions just for starters, before you look at how much the likes of China and India among others will increase and erode that cut.

      Us going to this extreme with a tax is particularly stupid, as there will be no measurable effect on climate change at all, zero, even if the tax achieves its goals and that’s a fact.  And it won’t even do that, because the governments own modelling suggests a carbon price ‘well south’ of $40 a tonne that’s being suggested won’t be effective where it needs to be.
      A tax above that is the only way it could work yet would be even more unjustified given the extreme pressure it would put on our industries and jobs for zero real world impact.
      Face it, it’s a dud.  Reckless and pointless.  The price of Australian products will go up for nothing.  Why are there still some people actually supporting this?

    • Steve Putnam says:

      03:22pm | 29/05/11

      @ Ben81 If, as you assert, the introduction of a price for carbon is “Reckless and pointless”, why does The Business Council support it?
      @Sony B Goode “What’s the rush”...Hardly a rush. We lead the world in solar electricity technology and innovation and then along came the 1st Costello budget in 1996. With the stroke of a pen all R&D tax breaks into renewable energies were wiped out and our ideas and some of our finest minds went offshore to persue them.  As a result billion dollar industries have developed from these ideas to which we are not the beneficiaries. This must not be allowed to happen again.
      Whether you like it or not the world is slowly but inexorably moving towards the low carbon economy. If your only response is to keep burning coal because we’ve got lots of it then you have nothing to offer future generations. I think it also betrays a lack of confidence in the ability of Australia to come up with new ways of meeting future challenges.
      The sad thing is a majority of Coalition MPs would support this, but have been set on a path of mindless opposition by trogs like Abbott, who as he brazenly admitted would take pragmatism over policy any day.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      04:52pm | 29/05/11

      I am still waiting for precisely which renewables have any form of base load electrical generation capability or that are able to come within cooee of the costs of coal/nuclear. anyone? anyone? anybody? anybody? bueler? bueler?

      Or which renewables have a $50b export potential to replace coal and a further $80b to replace shale/gas. anyone? anyone? anybody? anybody? bueler? bueler?

      Please enough of the agrarian socialist BS. We have had enough of it already; practice agrarian socialism in your backyard with your pigs, chooks candlelight and your home made clothing and soaps but leave us out of your delusional fantasies.

    • Ben81 says:

      06:06pm | 29/05/11

      hm, a brush off.  Didn’t expect that.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      08:28pm | 29/05/11

      @Sony B Goode At present there is no base load renewable source. I never claimed there was. Nor would I argue for a moratorium on coal mining or exporation. The point is that we can’t go on the way we have been and become greater and greater consumers of energies based on fossil fuels. The old notions of unlimited economic growth are a mathematical and environmental absurdity—always have been. There is a need to modify behaviour on all levels. The choice for Australia is clear; we can just sit back like simpletons and continue to be a mine or quarry for industry overseas or we can get on the wave of the future which we helped launch way back when. The future is not coal. Does anyone seriously believe renewables won’t come to play a bigger and bigger part of our future energy needs?
      Lastly, apart from believing that for a society to be accepted as truely democratic there must be equality in each person’s access to health and education, I wouldn’t consider myself a socialist—agrarian or otherwise.

    • Mikko says:

      10:09am | 28/05/11

      These are minor hiccups which died in the wool lefties have jumped on in the faint hope Gillard might actually gain some long term advantage and somehow manage to win the next election whenever that will be. She sure had a huge display of support at the Vic Labor conference a couple of weeks back when debates on such burning topics as gay marriage failed for lack of a quorum. But keep hoping fellas, Vic and NSW were just the start of the domino effect and Qld will be next. All Tony Abbott has to do is wait for the Feds to self destruct some more when they finally agree on a carbon tax “starting price” which the Greens would like to see at $100 a tonne or upwards. Whether it is $20, $30 or $40 there is only one way it will go from there.  Oh and the set-top box rollout at 10 times the price Gerry Harvey or Dick Smith could do it for is sure to be a big vote winner too, just like the pink batts fiasco.
      But keep dreaming and hoping, miracles can happen.

    • Dave C says:

      10:54am | 28/05/11

      Abbotts biggest mistake is thinking the current parliament wont go the distance, it will because all the independents know that they have their once in a lifetime chance to have power over the whole country and they will make it last for as long as possible, Gillard knows this to and wants as long as possible to dig herself out of the hole she is in now.

      Instead Abbott and the coalition need to just hold their nerve for the next 2 years, they need to continue to make the Govt and its policies the issue and see if the people just stop listening to the ALP and eventually have their minds made up that the ALP (with the Greens continuing influence) have had their go and now its time to give the other mob a turn.

      Come July once the greens have the balance of power and we see more debates about the rights of Whales, Gays, Cyclists, Vegans Asylum Seekers etc etc we will see how much the average punter whos concerned for their own family and job will view this influence and how Julia is beholden to it. Once this occurs all the Libs and Nats have to do is just hold their nerve and not F—- it up.

      Then with 12 months out from the next election the Libs and Nats have to release policy principles, nothing too detailed or else the ALP/Greens/ABC/Fairfax/Get Up etc will start the scare campaigns just like in 1993 under Hewson. Just release positive broad policy outlines then release the details during the election campaign. It worked for Howard in 96 and Rudd in 07 and O’Farrell this year. But between now and then ffs just hold your nerve and dont do anything stupid to F it up.

    • Michael says:

      10:05am | 29/05/11

      Dave, he knows it’s going the distance mate thats why Tony makes such a lot of noise on the little issues…because they annoy the smaller minded voters, it’s a good strategy.

      In a couple of years people will have heard a million times about the waste, the illegal boats, the increase in taxes we pay, the reduction in social services and rebates, the lies, real and fake Juliar…hah shit even i am spelling her name like that now raspberry

      We will at the same time hear about Tony is a mad monk…non issue

      Malcolm Turnbull…non issue

      Climate deniers…insulting 2/3 of voters who don’t think a tax will stop pollution

      Tony has no policies…the masses in the middle know what they are and where to find all Labor, Green and Liberal policies, starts with www.

      So the next two years are for us, those a little right of centre and those a little left of centre to scrap it out, for the amusement of swing voting observers

    • Ben81 says:

      10:58am | 28/05/11

      All he’s doing is holding the government to account, amazing what that will do for someone’s popularity when they’re right.

    • persephone says:

      01:53pm | 28/05/11

      And it’s so easy to be right when you don’t actually take a position on anything!

    • Ben81 says:

      04:23pm | 28/05/11

      Pers I can think of one particular pressing issue he’s taken a loud and clear position on lately, thankfully.  The way he’s going at the moment it feels like he’s going to boot the damn tax into orbit then run a victory lap around Australia!

    • Glen says:

      11:39am | 28/05/11

      If Turnbull wants to ruin things in the LNP while we have Labor on the ropes, I implore him to at least consider joining Labor first. We can live with that.

    • mervyn ford says:

      12:07pm | 28/05/11

      “Clearly it is that optimism, buttressed by the polls and abetted by an at times, amateurish government”
      an “AT TIMES” amateurish govt!...how about a govt that is at best amateurish all the time, lurching from one stuff up to the next with ill conceived daily announcements designed to bury the last stuff up in the daily news cycle,..and the media lap up their propaganda verbatim.

    • neil says:

      12:08pm | 28/05/11

      Another article from an ALP supporter terrified of Tony Abbott. He really has rattled their cage and denial is the only reaction they can muster.

      Tony Abbott WILL be our next PM and no amount of sticking you head in the sand can change that.

    • The Redman says:

      08:50pm | 28/05/11

      Terrified of Abbott? I’m a socialist, and I want Abbott to lead the Coalition for ever. He is a nutcase and his strategy of popular sound bites might look good in the polls, but he won’t win any election. If Turnbull had been leader, the Coalition would have won the last election. Abbott’s lies will catch up with him, as his religious conviction doesn’t, clearly, extend to the truth. Or to the Christian principles relating to asylum seekers. Abbott is nothing but a political whore, no more, no less.

      Abbott’s a liar and a hypocrite. He’ll be found out. No, neil, I’m not terrified of Abbott. Don’t sack him. We Labor supporters very much want him in charge of the Libs for the next two years until the next election. He’ll lose. And lose badly.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      10:19pm | 28/05/11

      Redman a socialist? A socialist is generally a non-achiever who wants to ride on the backs of others achievement and wants government to solve perceived injustice.

      Socialist generally chase ephemeral delusions that material equality can be achieved in a free world.  A closet authoritarian who wants to impose his values on others through intolerance of prosperity and shallow examination of reality, under the pretence of siding with the little guy. Favourite past time is envy.

      A dying breed in a prosperous world.

    • Cate P says:

      12:37pm | 28/05/11

      Gosh the way you guys go on anyone would think Tony Abbott is currently setting the govt agenda and already running the country ... oh, wait a minute ...

    • Soames says:

      01:10pm | 28/05/11

      Erick, obviously a coalition hack, has the typical flawed view of so called ‘conservative’ politics’, in Australia,  today that is,  having a radical extremest view, of exploitation of the lowest common denominator victims, i.e, frightening the fearful masses,  the rednecks, the poorly educated, compulsory by law,  voters. Not the conservative, not the liberal philosophies one of keeping things as they are, (and when it suits politically, adopting a social stance).  It’s like watching a rational human being, whose values are being seduced by a snake charmer of the looney right zealots, succumbing to their charms, and consequently producing irrational posts here at The Punch, which of course, he’s quite entitled to do. One must say, he’s backed a loser, pehaps at the behest of un-named soon to be pensioned off MP’s and Senators.

    • mervyn ford says:

      03:01pm | 28/05/11

      @soames…....and how would you describe the greens?? and the political opportunist independents with their own agenda’s and axe’s to grind which are at odds with mainstream thinking,voted in by how many voters???
      have a look at some other countries like canada who have woken up and turfed out these idiots into social manipulation and wasteful spending

    • Sony B Goode says:

      04:12pm | 28/05/11

      Soames, big night last night mate?

      “exploitation of the lowest common denominator victim” er that doesn’t make any sense mate. Wait till the head clears before you start on a rant. Anyway it’s the socialist and agrarian socialist party who are about punishing and preventing anyone from getting ahead. It’s the left of the spectrum that want to keep everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

      Personally I am not a big fan of Conservatives, but they do a darn site better job of managing the economy than the tsunami sized squandering of the left. They also do far less to punish success and get in the way of, or drag back down anyone that gets ahead. Australian tall poppyism is alive and well and epitomised by labor.

      Labor is the party promising something for nothing and reward without risk or effort, that is until they start to copy Conservative policy and began to nudge people off welfare who shouldn’t be there.

      Problem with the Conservatives is they are too gutless to bring in a flat rate tax. They like to stick to conservative small changes and when they did try to bring in a big reform like work choices they got kicked down by the howls and bawls of unionists having their lolly taken off them.

      Labor however are so stuck up their own ideological bums that they can’t see that in country with growing prosperity, anti–prosperity policies have less and less traction.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      03:54pm | 28/05/11

      The opposition has nothing better to do than pick on poor Tony, they can’t sit on their laurels because everything they touch has turned to poo. what’s that?
      Labor isn’t in opposition. oh. Sorry, the government has nothing better to do…

    • Bikinis On Top says:

      04:32pm | 28/05/11

      Tony Abbott lost the unloseable 2010 federal election between August 21 2010 and September 7 2010 when he failed the very easy task of converting all of three former Coalition Independents to support A Coalition Government.
      Like Barrie O’Farrell, Tony Abbott is a mass media giant in mas media fantasy and political midget in reality.
      Tony Abbott would lose a chook raffle even if he bought all the raffle tickets.
      Like a topless bikini model, he only poses well in his red monokini panties

    • Michael says:

      08:16pm | 28/05/11

      Idiot!

    • Bikinis On Top says:

      04:40pm | 28/05/11

      The bigger and bigger and bigger amount of time between the last federal election and the next federal election, the less and less and less chance Abbott and The Abbottobad Liberals have of winning the next federal election even with substantial mass media bias and support.

    • bikinis on top says:

      04:43pm | 28/05/11

      Tony Abbott is the Osama Bin Laden of Aussie politics. Abbott is athe hero of the Abbottobad Liberals.

    • bikinis on top says:

      04:45pm | 28/05/11

      Even Julia Bishop looks better in a red bikini than Abbottobad Abbott, the red bikini girl from Russia

    • mervyn ford says:

      05:43pm | 28/05/11

      talking to yourself bikini’s?

    • Mikko says:

      08:02pm | 28/05/11

      It’s on top because the bottom’s too big to fit?

    • Mikko says:

      07:08am | 29/05/11

      Like the head.

    • Enrico says:

      02:05pm | 29/05/11

      Get rid of Juliar Dullard and her band of merry incompetents!... Now!

    • Sony B Goode says:

      05:33pm | 29/05/11

      something for the agrarian socialist proleteriat

      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=new-jersey-abandons-regional-bid-curb-carbon-dioxide


      New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie announced plans yesterday to pull the Garden State out of the nation’s only operating cap-and-trade system, spurring environmental anger, conservative cheers and speculation about his national ambitions….

      “We remain completely committed to the idea that we have a responsibility to make the environment of our state and world better,” Christie said. “We’re not going to do it by participating in gimmicky programs that don’t work.”

    • Joni says:

      12:18pm | 14/06/11

      I bow down hublmy in the presence of such greatness.

 

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