The political no-holds-barred clashes Australia is used to, are now being blamed for adding to our economic jitters.

Uh-oh, good economic figures. How am I going to put a negative spin on this? Pic: Gary Ramage.

This has raised the critical question of whether pulling apart the economic record of a government could damage the economic performance of the entire nation.

“I remain very confident about Australia’s medium term economic prospects,” shadow treasurer Joe Hockey said yesterday, using words Treasurer Wayne Swan would endorse.

“We are in the right place at the right time, geographically located near Asia, the world’s largest and fastest growing economic region, and blessed with the resources and the rural output that they want.”

But then he said of the Government: “They claim the Coalition is talking down the economy through its attacks on the Government’s own policies, such as an economy-wide carbon tax which will increase the price of everything.

“The truth is that the Government’s own actions, its own policies and its lack of a mandate have destroyed consumer and business confidence.”

Wayne Swan spoke of confidence, too, and clearly had the Opposition in mind when he addressed Parliament.

He echoed, in part, Mr Hockey: “We can be confident in our economic fundamentals, confident in our linkages to the strongest part of the world, confident in the resilience of our people and confident that we have a Government who has passed the test before.”

He further said: “And in uncertain times like these, it more important than ever that we have a mature debate about our economy and where it’s heading, rather than damaging rhetoric that risks undermining confidence further and sells our country’s prospects short.”

There is no doubt the Government has a tough task to deliver what it has promised on the economy, but the Opposition has its own battle to guarantee economic credibility.

They both look cool and confident but be assured that the brows of Wayne Swan and Joe Hockey are liable to be drenched in sweat at the drop of a DowJones Average.

One man is guiding the national economy towards putting the Budget in the black at a time when Government revenue is decreasing. The other has to find $50-70 billion in savings at a time when cutting spending could wreck an economy under global strain.

Here are a few measures of their tasks.

Mr Hockey has to find savings of up to $70 billion over fours years if the Coalition is to have a credible economic policy. Here’s a rough guide to the dimensions of his task.

Hypothetically, if all Commonwealth public servants were immediate sacked - and Mr Hockey doesn’t want to get rid of ALL of them - he would save $60 billion and still have to find $10 billion.

Mr Swan has to keep the national economy rolling towards a surplus at a time when many voters believe their household finances will be wrecked by a carbon pollution penalty, and while consumers have gone on strike and are keeping the dough under the bed or paying off debts.

He is maintaining a course towards a return to a Budget surplus by 2013 despite alarming projections that Europe and the United States will not be contributing to global economic growth - or Australian revenue increases - for several years.

He counters the distress of those two economic blocs by highlighting the turbo-charged growth in China and India, and the Asia-Pacific middle class which is expanding at a rate of 110 million cashed-up consumers a year.

“I don’t want to sugar coat the current situation. If the global economy were to weaken materially, that would obviously have an impact here,” Mr Swan told Parliament.

His difficulty is that he doesn’t have spare cash to keep the economy ticking over so it survives a global crisis, without going into the red again.

The Government is hoping Australia will be robust enough to withstand the impact Mr Swan referred to with the only special measures needed being cuts to interest rates by the Reserve Bank.

If things get worse than projected and a deficit is needed to counter a GFC II, it would be portrayed as a broken promise and become a major political problem.

The Opposition is already telling voters there will not be a surplus on schedule. In Parliament yesterday Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey rammed home the point that Prime Minister Julia Gillard can not be trusted.

As part of that finely-tuned political calibration, the Opposition will have to keep an eye on the point when its political agitation slips over to a campaign of talking down the economy.

260 comments

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    • Erick says:

      06:18am | 17/08/11

      Of course, the Labor Party never criticised Coalition economic policies while in opposition.

    • Jim says:

      07:36am | 17/08/11

      Smoke and mirrors Erick…so long as they can twist things around, lie and make ridiculous accusations about the opposition the media will lap it up and they don’t have to explain things like….oooh, a $200K bail out of a ALP MP fraudster who, if declared bankrupt, would have to be kicked out of parliament forcing a by election…

    • Dan says:

      07:46am | 17/08/11

      Constructive comment, Erick. Of course the Labor Party criticised the Coalition when it (Labor) was in opposition. That is what Oppositions do. But Malcolm makes it clear that oppositions behaving like this lot have no credibility. I almost hope for your sake that when they win government (as they will), they do knock $70 billion off government spending. Australia won’t be a pleasant place to be if that happens and I suspect you won’t like it any more than the rest of us.

    • Nafe says:

      08:25am | 17/08/11

      Even when Labor got into power in 2007, they were still talking down the economy, Inflation Geinie, Howard this and that. The more it changes, the more it stays the same.

    • Terry says:

      08:27am | 17/08/11

      Of course, the Labor Party will blame anyone or anything else but themselves for breaking the promise of achieving a surplus 2012-13. People are not listening to what this government is doing, they are just waiting for elections with their baseball bats. Angry Anderson said; ‘keep up the rage until then.’

    • Dave says:

      08:28am | 17/08/11

      Dan - When the Opposition is this far in front in the polls mate their doing something right and the Government are doing something wrong. Unless your a stuck on Labor supporter who will support a Government that clearly have no idea and have gone from catastrophe to catastrophe with record low polling and a Government worse than Whitlam. A Government with a Leader and PM who the electorate have stopped listening to and would prefer to listen to the Opposition and their Leader. Gillard is the most ineffectual PM in history.
      Trying to whip up hysteria about the Opposition seems OK but don’t do it to the VERY unpopular Julia Gillard and her Government. I would say it’s Gillard who has no credibility and that’s Labors problem.

    • dovif says:

      08:49am | 17/08/11

      Dan

      It is a very valid point. With the world economy and government in trouble, why is the ALP, rushing head long into a Carbon tax, which could have a large effect on jobs and cost of living

      It makes no sense to hurt our economy in times like this. It shows a inept mismanagement of the economy.

    • Dan2 says:

      09:11am | 17/08/11

      Of course they did, Erick. But their rhetoric wasn’t nearly as dangerous.

      The Coalition is wilfully throwing around words like ‘sovereign risk’, despite an extremely strong dollar, and high demand on Government bonds.

      The Labor Party is struggling, and will undoubtedly hand the Coalition Government at the next election. There’s no need for the Coalition to continue throwing eggs - they’ll just have to clean up the mess.

    • Matt says:

      09:42am | 17/08/11

      @Erick, I’m surprised Mal didn’t invoke the spectre of Sovereign Risk! wink

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      10:11am | 17/08/11

      Dan2 - you mention to strong demand for Government bonds like its something good - but the yield curve is upward sloping indicating that the markets think that interest rates will rise - bonds aren’t in demand because of they think the government is special.

      The AUD is high, not because of the government of invention, but because of the high prices of commodities on world markets and our mining boom to supply these world markets. But our mining sector only accounts for 8% of our GDP so contributes little. GDP declined 1.2% last quarter the biggest in 20 years. And it could be a house of cards as an attractive interest rate differential may be driving some of the speculative activity pushing our dollar up.

      Just because you have the words “increasing” when it comes to the economy doesn’t mean everything is going well.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      12:00pm | 17/08/11

      @Terry, you are indicating then that the following must be true:
      1. If the economy isn’t in the black by 2013 then it is entirely Labour’s fault, even if there is some major national disaster that would destroy the economy (regardless of what state it is in).
      2. If the economy does indeed get into the black by 2013 then the Coalition is wrong and Labour was correct with their economic policies.

    • Steve says:

      12:57pm | 17/08/11

      PschoHyena. Wrong about the surplus in 2012/2013. The damage will have been done in Mr Swann’s first 5 budget deficits which will total about $150 billion over those 5 years. If he records a forecast surplus of $3 billion in 2013 then his net deficits will reduce to $147 billion.

      It would take 50 years of $3 billion dollar surpluses to repay the Swann debt created by his first 5 budget deficits. As such a small surplus in 2013 is a long way from problem solved. It just represents the time when the debt spiral plateaus. interestingly we never hear from Swann or Farr on a plan to repay the debt but they ridicule Hockey’s plan.

      Swann is a policy vacumn on repayment of debt but hey lets criticise the oppostion for not having policies released at a time that suits the ALP.

      There will still be residual debt when the economic cycle turns again and further fiscal stimulas is required. That is how USA and Europe have got into trouble by not paying off fiscal stimulas within an economic cycle. Thank Costelloo for 11 budget surplusses.

      If you are young Phscho hyena, then you should be dismayed that for most of your working life your taxes will be used to repay debt and interest on Swann’s legacy debt.

    • Extremely Popular Policy Free Liberals says:

      01:23pm | 17/08/11

      Did you see the Michael brissenden interview of joe Hockey last night?
      Hockey said that all the Coalition policies would be available well before the election.
      Brissenden said that Tony abbott calls for an election right now every single. He asked Joe Hockey if he was ready to go with all policies if an election was held today?
      Hockey said “oh Yes. We could release the policies before that election possibility.
      When aske therefore what are the policies ?
      Hockey didn’t know.
      Liberals are all media hype and media spin!

    • Terry says:

      01:40pm | 17/08/11

      Psychohyena

      Until Labor MPs can govern without being obsessed with what Tony Abbott is doing than I will be prepared to debate or reason with the likes of you. I have just heard Roxon and everything she said was reference to Tony Abbott. Tony Abbott is the leader of the party that is in Opposition, it would be a nice change if the government could just get on with governing the country without mentioning that Tony Abbott was a hindrance and that they could do a better job if the Coalition had a different leader but Tony Abbott. Go figure! The media would also help a great deal if they didn’t encourage Labor MPs to refer to Abbott when trying to explain or sell their policies etc. Now all we hear from Labor MPs is Abbott should be, shouldn’t be, Abbott is this, is that etc etc.

    • john says:

      01:51pm | 17/08/11

      @Extremely Popular Policy Free Liberals- as opposed to a policy contagion from labor?  pink batts, stimulation till broke, 36B NBN, rusty naval fleet, carbon tax,flood tax, & more tax, a congestion tax on its way. 3.6026% inflation, unemployment increased 6 consecutive times,Kowtowing to Asia, US,EURO…what the F#$K for? plus 2.2 trillion of total debt and rising:
      http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

      1950’s style fixed policies don’t work any more in a world that changes daily, weathervane politics seems more logical. That is why we have a carbon tax, its weathervane politics from labor too….kettle black!!

      LOL

    • Extremely Popular Policy Free Liberals Nationals says:

      02:41pm | 17/08/11

      Did you see Senior Citizens acting as Senior Citizen Preschool Kindergaten Kids or Age Pension University stidents outside Parliament House Canberra on August 2011? Senior Citizens age disgracefully. All these senior citizens in the Carbon Tax Rally at Parliament House canberra should be cut off the aged pension and kicked out of retiremernt Villages & Rest Homes!

    • Peter says:

      04:34pm | 17/08/11

      Its OK for the Unions to run down Qantas with talk (no Proof Asked for or given) safety issues. Its Ok for economists to close up shop and no warnings of any pending US mortgage Bonds melt down which caused more havoc then talking down the Australian economy or were they as greedy and as dumb as the people that bought others dud mortgages. Grow up Swanny ,some ome take your marbles.

    • acotrel says:

      09:51pm | 17/08/11

      Erick, when the Labor party w as in opposition, we weren’t faced with the prospect of a serious depression.  Hockey, Truss and Joyce are being irresponsible, and putting the well-being of all of us a t risk, simply to gain a fraction of political adva ntage.  They need to get their priorities right. Talking down the economy can become a self-fulfilling prophesy ! Even the back benckers in the LNP retched when Joyce claimed the US might default on its debt.  It’s the height of self-serving stupidity.

    • acotrel says:

      09:59pm | 17/08/11

      @Nafe
      ‘Even when Labor got into power in 2007, they were still talking down the economy,’
      Same response to you.  In 2007 we were not faced with the prospect of a double dip recession with the potential to cascade into depression.  The GFC hit in October 2008 ! Most of the current comment occurred on a day when the market t ook a dive.  What was Hockey trying to do?  You blokes might wriggle and squirm, -  I don’t know why you can’t simply acknowledge that the opposition are opportunistic self-serving idiots?

    • acotrel says:

      10:10pm | 17/08/11

      @Steve
      ‘Swann is a policy vacumn on repayment of debt ‘

      I’ve never heard an LNP policy on any issue except perhaps gay marriage.  I still don’t know what Tony Abbott stands for.  All his rhetoric is negative, never constructive.  I suggest you blokes only support him because he’s the leader of your beloved conservatives?  Nothing to do with good ideas about the future of Australia.  I predict that if he gets into power, he’ll do nothing to improve anything.  We’ll se few infrastructure projects, no social security improvements, no improvement t o health or educa tion.  It’ll be all do-nothing bullshit - LNP business as usual !

    • Against the Man says:

      06:47am | 17/08/11

      Give it up Mal, the ALP have failed at the Federal level under Kevin and Juliar. Time for them to get back to the political wilderness! smile

    • TomZ says:

      08:43am | 17/08/11

      Well said ATM. Mal’s ALP bias is really evident in this one.

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      08:52am | 17/08/11

      Against the Man…i agree - what is it with Mal Farr . Over the past month ,
      he has launched a blatant campaign against Abbott and the Coalition .
      His reporting has become noticably out of balance and his last performance on ABC’s ” Insiders ” was a case in pont.

      Why ? - prior to this , i have always enjoyed Farr’s reasonably balanced reporting.  What has motivated this sudden change . ?
      When a conservative Opposition does it’s job , Mal seems to have a skewed view of their performance .

      Where was he when Rudd led the Labor Opposition using the same tactics. ?

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:37am | 17/08/11

      The question is, does Farr realise his bias, or is he ignorant to it, and thinks he is doing a great job?

    • MDG says:

      09:44am | 17/08/11

      Rudd as Opposition Leader was nothing like Abbott.  Remember Barnaby Joyce’s remark that if Rudd got any closer to Howard he’d need permission from Janette?  Abbott, by contrast, would disagree with Labor if Julia Gillard said that it was a good idea to breathe in and out.  Nor did Rudd ever accuse Howard of illegitimacy or demand instant elections just because he was ahead in the polls at the time.

    • Joan says:

      10:22am | 17/08/11

      MDG: Gillard is taxing CO2 what we breathe out and also slamming her big Carbon Tax on Werribbee sewage plant- the Gillard Crap Tax - she thinks it will change the world climate. The womans a joke. - Victorians now to have a tax on a daily crap. This is the joke we call government,.

    • MDG says:

      11:21am | 17/08/11

      Yes, Joan, I know you have a consuming hatred of the PM and Labor, but that isn’t what I was talking about.  I was comparing the Rudd approach as Opposition Leader to the Abbott approach.  Do try to pay attention.

    • Joan says:

      01:32pm | 17/08/11

      MDG: You fantasise `Abbott, by contrast, would disagree with Labor if Julia Gillard said that it was a good idea to breathe in and out.` Facts are Gillard taxing bodily emissions - CO2 and Werribee sewage plant.

    • MDG says:

      01:48pm | 17/08/11

      And that, again, Joan, is totally irrelevant to the comparison between Rudd and Abbott as Opposition Leaders that The Galah drew and which I was commenting on.  You’ve taken a key word as an opportunity to sing your song about how much you hate the government, but that doesn’t make it relevant…unless Tony Abbott really is advocating that people should stop breathing in order to avoid the carbon price?

    • Denny Crane says:

      03:08pm | 17/08/11

      MDG - Abbott and the Coalition oppose labor’s tax policy. Rudd and Swan just copied Costello’s tax plan verbatim. That a difference. One thinks for himself the other just cheated off the smart guy.

    • Peter says:

      04:49pm | 17/08/11

      MDG . What Barnaby was talking about was Rudds stock reply to Howards Election promises was “Me Too” AS for Rudds/ Swans 2007 Treasury costings We are still waiting. Of cause last year being in power they had their own Treasury Dept. As far a Mal leanings we all know then and accept them for what they are worth.

    • Nathan says:

      04:04am | 18/08/11

      The economy is going great guns leading all developed nations what more could we hope for at the moment? Really pack of whingers we have become. Question the government on policy issues but the overall economy is going better than expected. To say labor should not worry about Abbott? Really he says things that contradict each other, its pretty hard to get your points across when you have a scaremonger in opposition. Have we all forgotten how the Coalition would not supply costings even after election and when they did it didn’t add up? Are the responsible economic managers or power hungry

    • Jeremy says:

      07:07am | 17/08/11

      Why do you spend so much time on the opposition? All you want to talk about is the opposition. How about talking about the goons running the country, isn’t that more important than the goons in opposition?
      All your articles and comments are about Abbott and his goons who don’t run the country and there’s still 2 years to an election.
      Your articles are about as informative as a gossiping, gotcha, exclusive in a womans magazine.

    • BobC says:

      08:28am | 17/08/11

      Couldn’t agree more, Jeremy - I was sitting back the other night watching some Labor talking head and suddenly came to the realisation that they are always criticizing the Libs, not attempting to promote their own policies. Continually fighting a rearguard action, always on the defensive. Surely if they have confidence in their projects and statistics they should not be concerned at anything the opposition puts forward. Instead there is constant focus on denigrating the Libs. Get over it! Get some good policies and….move us forward, please!

    • Kika says:

      09:47am | 17/08/11

      “Your articles are about as informative as a gossiping, gotcha, exclusive in a womans magazine”

      AND of Tony Abbott?  What does Tony do or say other than just school boy taunting and teasing? What policies does he have? He keeps calling for an election but even last night Joe Hockey said they don’t HAVE a policy for anything yet.

    • Sherlock says:

      09:48am | 17/08/11

      I also agree. I just love how the press gallery is fixated on the oppositions failings instead of criticising this appalling government.

      The left wing media is so out of touch they think that an article praising a government policy and another criticising the oppositions reaction to said policy is an example of “Balanced Reporting”.

      The only media that does dare criticise the government comes under attack by politicians and the rest of the media close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears ads starts humming loudly.

      Jonathan Holmes turns the ABC’s Media Watch into the left wing rant of the week and instead of reporting on the media he now rewrites stories he happens to disagree with.

      The Australian political media is a disgrace to journalism

    • Martin says:

      11:52am | 17/08/11

      That’s it Jeremey. Farr just can’t help himself. Had to turn the Insiders program off again on Sunday because Farr and Marr got out of control yet again. This one sided Labor support program is a farce. If Labor is in that much trouble (and it is) then they need to adjust their policies and there performance. No amount of biased spin doctoring is going to save their hide.

    • acotrel says:

      08:06am | 18/08/11

      @Sherlock
      ‘I also agree. I just love how the press gallery is fixated on the oppositions failings instead of criticising this appalling government.’

      The media is there to report the news.  The ‘news’ is that the opposition has NO POLICIES, and is using scaremongering and negativity to try and regain their birthright.  All current polititical debate is reduced to stupid one liners by Abbott!

    • JohnB says:

      07:38am | 17/08/11

      Are you serious? Are you suggesting the economy should be talked up?

      We’ve done that far too long. We’ve been living on debt, all pretending we’re rich. Isn’t it time we admitted it’s all wrong. If we don’t market forces will do it for us, which is exactly what’s finally beginning to occur now. People like you Mr Farr continue to delude yourself the socialist, do bugger all, spend, high tax model can possibly continue to work. IT CAN’T. Look at America, Europe and the UK. We are headed for the perfect storm. Over the past three decades, we spent too much, we now need to both reduce that spending AND pay back the money (a double wammy)…We are aging, we’re producing less, we’re consuming less, the tax base is depleting.

      Trying to kid ourselves more will not solve the problem Then again I’ve never met a staunch Labor supporter that wants to solve problems, just close your eyes and hope it’ll be okay is always the Labor way.

    • Dan says:

      09:17am | 17/08/11

      “Pretending we’re rich”?

      Of course we’re rich! Our debt is 2% of our GDP! Yes the US is in trouble, with debt at 100%, and Europe and the UK aren’t far behind. But really, Australia’s situation is nowhere near that level.

      Foreign commentators have long spoken extraordinarily highly of the Australian economy…longed for anything resembling it’s strength. And failing to understand why our leaders continue to talk it down.

      It’s time to stop pretending we’re poor, spend some money, and start really making it.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:46am | 17/08/11

      @ Dan, its more like 20% but anyway this acceptance of debt is a worrying trend.

      Why are we in debt, what have we achieved by going 150 billion in debt? Debt is only good if its productive, and our debt is anything but. Quite frankly having billions of dollars in taxes used to service debt is a horrible situation, regardless if the US and europe is worse.

      That doesn’t even include paying back that debt as well. Anyway the debt to GDP ration is a poor measurement akin to the BMI for health.

      The federal goverments income is around 300 billion, so to repay our debt, maintain services, and pay the extra interest is by no means a simple task, unless of course you are happy to live in perpetual debt.

    • JohnB says:

      09:52am | 17/08/11

      I’m sure Dan over time it will be proven that half the population on welfare, a housing market about 50% overvalued, employed meaning 1 hours work a week, pretty much no manufacturing left, 85% of our mining owned by foreigners will be a problem. What about the excess governments have spent on “normal” operations by selling stuff? Doesn’t that mean we have as a country lived beyond our means?

      Exactly what do you think makes us rich Dan? That we owe less than other countries? We don’t do anything.

      These people that talk us up. How’s their economy going? Are their opinions seriously valid?

      Never forget…..Always process someone’s opinion through the self-interest filter before you consider it seriously…

    • Michael N says:

      10:00am | 17/08/11

      @ Dan - Spot on.

      JohnB - both sides of parliament acknowledge the strong fundamentals of this economy and, as Dan and numerous others can tell you, the Australian economy is the envy of the developed world (along with maybe Singapore and Switzerland). We are a very rich nation with a very high standard of living but consequently, we have very high expectations and we don’t take it well when first world problems start to ail us.

      This article, however, is merely highlighting the precarious nature of consumer confidence and the importance of balanced rhetoric from our political leaders. The danger of inaccurately talking down the economy is that the less-informed members of society take these warnings as gospel and then act and comment as if we are not a rich nation. Their fear permeates along the like-minded and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And by then it’s too late for even enviable economic fundamentals to save us.

    • JohnB says:

      10:29am | 17/08/11

      “the Australian economy is the envy of the developed world”

      The developed world is an economic basket case. It is not an option for the US to print money to pay it’s debt. What smart country is going to cop that long term? Certainly not their lender, China. They are hording gold. Their citizens are storing 5% of their earnings in gold.

      In other words we think we can continue spending more than we produce, while selling EVERYTHING, while the “developing” nations save. We have gorged ourselves on debt for decades. The end is here. It will be bloody painful you can be sure. Pretending the time has not come is yet another mistake our ridiculous governments will make.

      Exactly where is the revenue coming from when China intend on spending one trillion dollars on Australian assets including farm land and business’s…..We’re rich because we’re selling the “family silver”......We are not the richest per capita nation. We are the dumbest per capita nation.

    • Markus says:

      10:32am | 17/08/11

      “It’s time to stop pretending we’re poor, spend some money, and start really making it.”
      There’s no pretending about it. While the government’s debt to GDP ratio is at a fairly respectable 20% (not the 2% you have stated), household debt has jumped from 40% to 155% in the last 20 years (relative to income).
      It isn’t sustainable, and when households start defaulting the rest of the Aus economy will go with it.

    • Dan says:

      10:36am | 17/08/11

      @ Adam Diver,

      I’m afraid our net debt is still around 2 percent, and the MYEFO predicted a peak at about 6.4 percent.

      You asked if our debt is productive. I’d contend that it is. The most significant Government spending in recent years came in Rudd’s stimulus package. It promised to hold off a recession, and worked.

      Debt certainly isn’t the optimum situation. But considering the potential impact of the GFC, it’s the only real scenario. And as I pointed out above - it’s not that massive to begin with. Heavy debt (like that in the EU and US) is very dangerous, but that’s not where we find ourselves.

      There’s no need to rush to the panic stations.

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      11:15am | 17/08/11

      Dan - it is more like 20% of GDP however including state debts and future pension liabilities, its around 42%. Of course basket-cases like the US and the UK would envy us - just getting by is a better position than what they are in. Rich isn’t having a government net debt of $1.907 T and a budget deficit of $20.3 B.

      I don’t understand how people keep saying that the fundamentals of the economy are good. They are parroting Swann who has no economic credentials. Most people believe and repeat what they hear but couldn’t actually tell you what the fundamentals of the economy are or what’s so good about them.

      Analyst we have an revenues of $350 B, expenses of $365.8 B and budget deficit of $20.3 B - we are behind to start off with and a government net debt of $1.907 T (which has more than doubled since 09/10) - you need to check your figures and take into account future pension liabilities. Unfortunately paying the debt of a country is alot different from paying your mortgage and can’t really be compared.

    • JohnB says:

      11:36am | 17/08/11

      “The most significant Government spending in recent years came in Rudd’s stimulus package. It promised to hold off a recession, and worked.”.........I don’t believe that….How does transferring money from one Australian citizen to another Australian citizen generate wealth for Australia? It doesn’t…It’s like thinking if I sell my car to the guy down the road and I use the money to get him to do dentistry on my son, our suburb is wealthier…It’s not….The only way for our suburb to become wealthier is to trade with other suburbs.

      What we are doing is transferring wealth to developing countries by buying their goods…Hang on, don’t we sell them raw materials? Well, no, they own the mining companies…....

      AND, with all this money we’re transferring to developing countries, guess what they’re doing with it? Buying our family silver…Like I said..We are among the other western countries, really, really dumb. It will be biting us very, very soon. The reason is it’s exponential, before most of us realise what’s happening, we’re in so deep we can’t recover. That is exactly where we are now. Dithering with NBN or ANB or whatever the thing is, a carbon tax, gay marriage, disability whatever….

      Conventional economics cannot be applied to a brand new situation. Trade has always been how Australia became rich….Because we no longer trade, we just BUY…...It’s a brand new game that China and India will/are well and truly winning.

      We are being led to the slaughter and most Australians will be surprised as hell our governments were so blind.

    • JohnB says:

      12:28pm | 17/08/11

      “The most significant Government spending in recent years came in Rudd’s stimulus package. It promised to hold off a recession, and worked.”.........

      I don’t believe that….How does transferring money from one Australian citizen to another Australian citizen generate wealth for Australia? It doesn’t…It’s like thinking if I sell my car to the guy down the road and I use the money to get the other guy down the road to do dentistry on my son, our suburb is wealthier…It’s not….The only way for our suburb to become wealthier is to trade with other suburbs where we get an advantage (or we’re selling what we produce with hard work).

      What we are doing is transferring wealth to developing countries by buying their goods…Hang on, don’t we sell them raw materials? Well, no, they own the mining companies…....

      AND, with all this money we’re transferring to developing countries, guess what they’re doing with it? Buying our family silver…Like I said..We are among the other western countries, really, really dumb. It will be biting us very soon. The reason is it’s exponential, before most of us realise what’s happening, we’re in so deep we can’t recover. That is exactly where we are now. Dithering with NBN or ANB or whatever the thing is, a carbon tax, gay marriage, disability whatever….

      Conventional economics cannot be applied to a brand new situation. Trade has always been how Australia became rich….Because we no longer trade, we just BUY…...It’s a brand new game that China and India will/are well and truly winning.

      We are being led to slaughter and most Australians will be surprised as hell our governments were so blind.

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      12:58pm | 17/08/11

      @ Michael N - Ross Grittins is a well respected economic journalist - the problem I have with his commentary is that we were in a good position and rode through the GFC but some economists believe that we have just postponed the pain - if a GFC2 occurs I’m afraid that we will be hit very hard because now we only have debt backing us - and I’m not so sure that we are talking ourselves into a recession - we are comparing our economy against basket-cases as a base-line and not proper economic indicators -

    • JohnB says:

      02:02pm | 17/08/11

      Many mainstream economists have been 180 degrees out for a long time now. When is it time to stop listening and use simple common sense and logic and the best tool, a calculator?

      The likes of Pasco, Gittins, and Oliver were all talking up housing as recently as 6 months ago. Ridiculous.

    • Knemon says:

      02:29pm | 17/08/11

      Calling any economists – I’m continually hearing how tough the Australian public are doing it, making ends meet Etc. As JohnB says, “We’ve been living on debt, all pretending we’re rich. Isn’t it time we admitted it’s all wrong”

      What I can’t get my head around is - if times are so tough and our economy is tanking then how come household savings are at record highs?

      According to the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) almost $500 billion was sitting in household deposits up over 7 per cent from $462 billion a year ago and in the past five years household deposits have surged around 80 per cent, from $279 billion in June, 2006.

      I’m not stirring the pot so to speak, I am genuinely curious as to why this is so, and there is probably a simple explanation which could be too complex for my little brain to fathom. Cheers

    • JohnB says:

      03:56pm | 17/08/11

      I don’t know Knemon. I’m no economist but I can guess the reasons could be not everyone’s hocked up to their eyeballs and can do a little saving. ...We’re collectively worked out we are doomed????...Also, I guess I lot of smart people have sold assets such as housing and shares, and are cashed up.

      Either way, deposits don’t in any way suggest we are doing okay I wouldn’t think. Especially when the dollar eventually collapses compared to whatever reserve currency takes over from the US dollar.

    • Chris L says:

      04:38pm | 17/08/11

      @JohnB - In that analogy you supplied about a car and dentistry you would not make your suburb richer but you would make your household wealthier.

      In your previous post you seemed to be expressing concern that we don’t sell our resources to these other countries because the mining is foreign owned. Did you also oppose the super profits tax?

    • JohnB says:

      04:47pm | 17/08/11

      @Knemon…I’m wondering if these numbers include all the people that have shifted their super (or part there of) in to cash?

      I would NEVER trust the way our government reports anything…..

      look at all the long term unemployed shifted to disabled pension….Look at the criteria for being emplyed…1 hour a week….Remember the method to fix crime in western Sydney? Don’t report the crime.

    • JohnB says:

      05:28pm | 17/08/11

      @Chris L….In my analogy it’s not the federal governments job to make your household (state) more wealthy at the expense of the suburb, that would serve no useful purpose….. it’ is the federal governments job to make your suburb (country) more wealthy…

      “Did you also oppose the super profits tax?”....I’m ashamed to say I opposed it simply because it was Labor policy. I have re thought things very much since then…..In hind sight, we should be taxing them within an inch of them not being viable….BUT…You sure couldn’t trust Labor to use that money wisely….A future fund would be a clever idea….(didn’t they decimate that before we got to the future?).....I also think there should be a lot of resources retained for later. ESPECIALLY oil….

      In my defense I had no idea 85% of mining is foreign owned….That’s RIDICULOUS…..Who has allowed that to occur? I’m sure it’s not just Labor.

    • JohnB says:

      05:32pm | 17/08/11

      @Chris L….“you would make your household wealthier. “

      Would your household be wealthier? You no longer have a car, so no it’s not.

      To become more wealthy I guess in the trade you have to come out on top…Just like China is now…At Australia’s expense.

    • Vince says:

      07:40am | 17/08/11

      If you listen to Wayne Swan or Julia Gillard you will read the next day Malcolm Farr backing them up and parroting their words. No news from Farr again, just a repeat of Gillard and Swan flagging his ongoing love and support.
      Labor good, Coalition bad.

    • Muzz says:

      11:58am | 17/08/11

      Gillard and Swan say the opposition are talking down the economy - hey guess what, Farr says it too. He can’t even come up with his own commentary.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      05:40pm | 17/08/11

      What’s your point?

    • Analyst says:

      07:41am | 17/08/11

      You forgot to mention LABOR DEBT in capital letters.

      I mean just ask someone with a 450,000 mortgage on an extended home cinema with ensuite and annual trips to Kerobokan on credit cards what living with LABOR DEBT means. 1 basis point up and they might have to sell the second Thunder Ute or at least not get the leather trim option.

      Oh and you also forgot to say GFC Mk2 will be bigger, worse and last longer than GFC 1 and it will come sometime during the sitting of the current parliament because that will force an election and prove me right for saying its all Swan’s fault.

      Dont you know a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g?

    • JohnB says:

      08:56am | 17/08/11

      Couldn’t agree more Analyst.

      I’m intrigued that otherwise intelligent people can continue to see the world the way they do. They are deluded and bringing the rest of us down with them. We’ll see that in years to come as we continue to populate, overspend, sell farm land, live on debt, decimate farm land, promote socialism. These idiots are unfortunately your present typical leader. God help us.

      Australia needs a plan. I’m not expecting we’ll see it coming from ANY present politicians bar a couple.

    • Tubesteak says:

      09:00am | 17/08/11

      I’m not sure if you’re joking but that was really funny.

      You should have mentioned the fact that they only earn $70k with that $450k debt and then done a comparison with government debt vs income.

      That would have made it funnier and more poignant.

    • JohnB says:

      09:09am | 17/08/11

      Not sure what you’re getting at there Tubesteak.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:57am | 17/08/11

      @ Tubesteak, 5 things

      1. The homeowner doesn’t have a 3 year cycle of responsibility

      2. Homeowner has a fixed 25/30 year loan, I doubt australia wants to be in debt for 25 year blocks at a time.

      3. Homeowner doesn’t have massive expenditure responsibilities.

      4. This is the big one. The homeowner, pays back thier debt with their own money, not through legislative power to steal other peoples money.

      5. Homeowner has an asset (usually appreciated) at the end of their debt. We seem to lose assets after Labor debt splurges.

      So your right its a poor analogy because Labor’s debt is far, far worse.

    • Analyst says:

      10:12am | 17/08/11

      He’s saying he gets the joke JohnB…

      In basic numbers (ie round figures rather than actual exact figures) - current government debt is like having a mortgage of $150 against income of $2,000 (using GDP)
      Or, if you want to put it against tax revenue, it’s like having a mortgage of $150 against annual income of $300.

      And I’m using “total” debt estimated figures including infrastructure, operational overdraft, capital expenditure, revenue expenditure… everything. Most of the current debt is capital (infrastructure = ‘mortgage’), and you dont count the whole value of the mortgage every year, just the amount of interest you have to pay -  so the real annual budget impact of that “DEBT!!!” is like paying $5.50 per year interest against $300 income.
      Question - Can you (or the government) afford that?
      Answer - Anything but yes means you should be ineligible to vote due to mental impairment. You obviously will be incapable of putting sequential numbers in each box…

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      12:25pm | 17/08/11

      Analyst we have an revenues of $350 B, expenses of $365.8 B and budget deficit of $20.3 B - we are behind to start off with and a government net debt of $1.907 T (which has more than doubled since 09/10) - you also need to check your figures and take into account future pension liabilities and state liabilities which takes debt to GDP ratio to around 42%. Unfortunately paying the debt of a country is alot different from paying your mortgage and can’t really be compared. The government doesn’t pay actual debts with GDP, they pay with tax revenue and tax revenue is lower than income.

      I’m interested too also know what figure you used for Total Debt.

    • Analyst says:

      01:11pm | 17/08/11

      Economist - I used ‘gross Australian Federal debt’ as at the 2010-2011 budget (138Bn), and added a bit to round it up to 150Bn.
      I suspect you have used total federal and private debt to reach 1.9Tr, the federal government isn’t responsible for the 1.75Tr difference.

      I didn’t use ‘expenses’ because not all of the expenses are “debt”. Most of them are covered by revenue, and we have just come off a period of heavy spending which put a ding in it but isn’t being added to by operational shortfalls.

      I didn’t factor future ‘expense’ contingencies because then you’d have to guess at future revenue.. and include the carbon price income and Mining rent tax income (which will happen..) and NBN wholesale income all of which are unknown (effectively.. I could look it up but its a blog post). And then guess at the economy growing at X% and resultant tax revenue.

      My basic point is, using budget figures.. out total debt is less than 50% annual tax revenue, and less than 7% annual GDP, and any way you slice it, that is an easily serviceable position

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:15pm | 17/08/11

      Adam Diver says:09:57am | 17/08/11

      1. A govt doesn’t have a 3 year cycle of responsibility, either. They must manage for generations into the future.

      2. Australia will be in debt according to the economic cycle and the needs of the government to remain counter-cyclical to uphold demand in the economy and soften the blow of economic downturns (and reduce the heights of economic upswings). If you want a govt to take no responsibility for your welfare then I suggest you find a truly laissez-faire country and see how things go there. 19th century Britain wasn’t all that fun.

      3. “Homeowner doesn’t have massive expenditure responsibilities.” Really? Want to check that again? Please do.

      4. Taxation is government revenue. This is the price we pay for living in a society. It is not theft or other people’s money.

      5. Assets are only assets if they produce an income. A house is no such thing. You can’t sell it and run off with the money and be homeless. That’s not a desirable outcome. You can only downsize but in the meantime your spending power never increased because a rising tide lifts all boats.

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      03:01pm | 17/08/11

      Analyst - Most economists and OECD countries use net debt as a measure of the governments strength as it is a better gauge of the overall indebtedness. The following Treasury paper shows how using gross figures can skew the outcome:

      http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf

      At 2011 budget figures Australian Government general government sector net debt is $106,646 B (so I haven’t used any private figures).

      I know that total government expenses are not all debt (the expenses include interest payments) but the government is currently spending more than its receiving in revenue. If you look at government expenses to GDP the figures for 2011/10 are roughtly the same as 08/09 and have fallen from last financial year so where is the ding from heavy spending.

      Its not an easily serviceable position if your total expenses are more than your total revenue.

    • Wayne says:

      03:43pm | 17/08/11

      Analyst, having worked in finance for over 30 years, I can say the debt being very manageable argument is totally flawed. The federal government borrowings are in no way comparable to a household borrowing for a home or other capital expenditure. Unlike a household, the government has in the main committed its total revenue to recurrent operating expenditure before taking on borrowings. It now needs to find the funds to pay interest (est $17.5billion pa on projected $250Bill) and repay the borrowings. What is more a projection of state plus federal borrowings is upwards of $500billion in the short term. That is $35billion pa in interest from taxes before paying back borrowings. Thus a lot of revenue needs to be redirected from services or taxes raised dramatically. It is more than foolish to run a government budget this way

    • Max Redlands says:

      04:45pm | 17/08/11

      @Tubestrak “Assets are only assets if they produce an income.”

      Incorrect. As I am sure any of the accountants who post here will confirm.

      e.g. If you take out a loan with a bank and have to list your assets and liabilities - as far as assets go the family home is usually first cab off the rank.

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      05:18pm | 17/08/11

      @ Tubesteak - can we give you the idiot of the blog award for this one -of course your home is an asset (its called a lifestyle asset) - you don’t need to make an income off something for it to be classified as an asset (that’s an investment e.g. investment property that you receive rent on) - I don’t know where you got that one from ?? - you do own it (when you pay off your mortgage), or you can own the difference between the price and the mortgage, and you can leverage off it - you put it down on all official loan papers as an asset - its even classed as an asset by Centrelink - what planet are you living on ????

    • Matt says:

      07:22pm | 17/08/11

      “5. Assets are only assets if they produce an income. A house is no such thing. You can’t sell it and run off with the money and be homeless. That’s not a desirable outcome. You can only downsize but in the meantime your spending power never increased because a rising tide lifts all boats. “

      Errr… What? Why is it so inconceivable to sell off a residential property, and then rent for a period of time?

      Do you not have any form of insurance over household contents such as computers, televisions, clothing, beds, pots and pans, etc? Are these not assets simply because you don’t derive income from them?

      What a ridiculous statement!

    • Old Clive says:

      07:42am | 17/08/11

      Come off the weed , you must be smoking pot, to think t5hat this present government is doing a good job of managing the economy. From the biggest surplus in history to the biggest debt in our our time and history.  I think you had better get of the pot and go and see a shrink as soon as possible. If every householder was to run their homes the way this government is running the country, the banks would be foreclosing at a faster pace than what they are doing now.How caqn any body justify borrowing on future earnings when they know their policies are going to bankrupt the country, get off the weed .

    • Jester says:

      08:42am | 17/08/11

      I think this is what they mean when they say “talking down the economy” - the message obviously gets through to people like you who are clearly not that economically literate.

      People like you have somehow got an impression that the government is running the country to bankruptcy.

      You couldn’t be further from the truth. You conveniently forget that the reason we went from surplus to deficit is due to the GFC (the same would have happened under any government).

      We still have amongst the lowest public debt - a far cry from going broke.

      Sure some of the spending was mismanaged - not saying Labor did a great job…but we are NOT going broke…

    • truthnotfaith mike says:

      11:49am | 17/08/11

      ummm are we not the envy of the world? People want to come here. We are booming, which is a problem for some. We importing people to cover lack of job skills. People have come to realise that the need to pay down personal debt and save awhile IS GOOD. Tough for retailers awhile. But geez, some damn fine market competition going on. A liberal cry not usually labors? Even as pensioner now i still agree with setting economy onto sustaianable future for energy. ANYONE tell me the prices will stop the inexoarble climb rate they are now if we do not position for future? Labor have made some dumb moves yes, what governement does not, but what have the liberals got at moment except taking us back to dark ages and third world economics.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      05:38pm | 17/08/11

      @Old Clive Australian public debt is about 7% of GDP - you must be a very jittery old chap if you think that is high when actually its the lowest in the developed world.
      You mention the surplesses under conservative governments but can you point to a single significant piece of infrastructure spending during its eleven and a half years in power?
      Maybe you should smoke a bit of weed and mellow out a bit.

    • Knemon says:

      07:44am | 17/08/11

      That’s true Erick…It’s Ok to keep the bastards honest but blatantly spreading fear through lies is wrong. Yesterday in parliament Tony Abbott was linking job losses at BlueScope and OneSteel to the carbon tax yet earlier BlueScope and OneSteel had both publicly said the carbon tax had nothing to do with their review or cutbacks. Either BlueScope / OneSteel are talking shit or Tony Abbott is spreading fear through lies (talking shit)…my monies on the latter.

    • Puuhlease says:

      08:32am | 17/08/11

      Sorry Knemon, I think you will find that what the opposition leader actually said was along the lines of with companies already laying off staff due to current financial woes, imposing an economy wide carbon tax is hardly a wise move.

      Of course we all know you are a Labor supporter and as such take this into account when you twist words or selectively requote the deliberate spin and misunderstanding emanating from the leadership of the parliamentary Labor Party.

    • Bob says:

      09:44am | 17/08/11

      @Knemon - you can add to the list Qantas 1,000 jobs to got and Westpac have said that jobs to go. Are these CEO’s also spreading fear or talking shit.

      Also do you think that Onesteel or BlueScope would say anything against the Carbon tax - they are to receive quite a large compensation, which will help their bottomline profit as they scale down to be a local supplier. A scale down they were already going to do due to the high Aussie dollar and global competition.

      The boards of Bluescope and Onesteel must be LOL at the deal.

      So in other words the Govt is financing a company that was going to

    • Puuhlease says:

      12:33pm | 17/08/11

      Ahh Knemon, TA asked “Why is she making competitive pressures worse with a carbon tax that applies to Australian companies but not to our competitors” . That is not stating these job losses are the result of the carbon tax, it is asking why make it even harder to be competitive with overseas suppliers when companies are already needing to cut costs to survive.
      And apologies for suggesting you are a Labor supporter if indeed you are not. However all of your posts seem to be in defense of the current mob and so the leap was not that hard.

    • TimB says:

      01:33pm | 17/08/11

      @ Puhleese, Knemon is a Greens voter. Thats why the defence of the ALP is so strong. As goes the ALP, so too goes the Greens.

    • Charles says:

      07:48am | 17/08/11

      Every economic measure the coalition put up during Howard’s time was voted against by the ALP.  The rhetoric against the GST by Beazley et al. was 10 times worse than anything being mentioned today.

      So, why do you wish to not hold Swan to account?  If one of the Asian economies falters, and we have all our eggs in that market, then we are toast.  The ALP has carefully wrecked most of the economy already, they are making moves on the last effective part of it, that being the mining industry.  Once they kill that it will all be over.

      I would have thought it normal to point out what a sovereign risk Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan are, why try and hide them under a carpet?

    • MDG says:

      09:49am | 17/08/11

      Which towns did Beazley say would be “wiped off the map” by the GST again?

    • frankr says:

      01:14pm | 17/08/11

      MDG,

      your right the gst scare camapign didnt talk about towns. it talked about the entire country, and it went on for two more (losing) elections

      want to talk about the disgraceful conjob by the alp on workchoices? which really was the negative camppagn that got this bunch of boofheads into power. honestly (careful labor bunnyboys, i said honestly) does any one know someone personally that was badly done by, that didnt deserve it, through workchoices

    • MDG says:

      03:11pm | 17/08/11

      You want to provide a quote of Beazley saying that the GST would wipe the entire country off the map?  Because I notice that you didn’t provide one and resorted to an unsupported claim and a red herring instead.

    • Amused says:

      07:49am | 17/08/11

      You should give people more credit Malcolm.  We have a business, but all spending on expansion or even extras we think we may want has been stopped.  We are aware of the global situation ( no, Aussies are not as stupid as you may think) we aware of this incompetent bungling government, THEY are the one stopping people investing and spending.
      I look at the overall picture, and this useless government gives nobody I know any confidence

    • emel says:

      07:49am | 17/08/11

      What this article highlights is the shallow mindedness of ALL oppositions that talk down the economy during periods of uncertainty and fragility. Sure the ALP cannot hold it’s collective head too high on this matter either, but the global markets are in a very precarious situation at present and a little fair-mindedness from messers Abbott and Hockey would go a long way to calming and restoring some confidence in our well performing economy now.
      An election campaign from the opposition that lasts the entire term of the Government is not good economic management no matter how you look at it.
      What this country needs is less ‘promises’ from the govt on future economic predictions that are always at the mercy of global trends, and far less negativity from the Coalition on EVERY single aspect of policy.

    • Joe says:

      02:19pm | 17/08/11

      What this government needs is a referendum on the carbon tax so that when they win wink they can get back to governing.

    • Michael says:

      07:52am | 17/08/11

      Ha, classic keep ‘em honest but don’t let anyone know how shit they really are. where’s the roflmao emote.

      oops too late smile

    • Ms Lulu says:

      08:05am | 17/08/11

      This will be the last article I read of yours Mr Farr. Your bias is sickening and I even turned you off tv the other night as you were making me feel ill. Pull your head in and report what is really happening. This Government is toxic and so is everything it touches.

    • Daniel says:

      08:09am | 17/08/11

      The Liberals and the far right just want Abbott as Prime Minister plain and simple.

    • Fred says:

      08:45am | 17/08/11

      They would not care if it was a garden gnome that was took over control of the country. The damage this backstabbing liar Gillard is doing to this once proud country is straight out traitorous and she and the Greens need to be removed before they do any more damage.

    • TimB says:

      08:57am | 17/08/11

      Thats not true Fred. We would totally care if Bob Brown took over control of the country.

      ...Aww crap.

    • Michael says:

      09:25am | 17/08/11

      I vote liberal and i don’t want Abbott as prime minister, i don’t want Julia or Bob either.

      I just want an economically responsible government that isn’t being held to ransom by a fringe group of radical thinkers that have divorced themselves from the responibility of the consequences of their actions.

      I would prefer a labor government in it’s own right, than anything including the greens, with exception of an outright green government.

      I also don’t want Malcolm Turnbull as prime minister because he has put his own singular view point before the party’s well being, same as Rudd did and Julia does.

    • Daniel says:

      09:27pm | 17/08/11

      Its interesting to read the attacks on the Greens. They are not really controlling the government. Thats just a line that News Ltd is peddling to try and get rid of Gillard. Im just stuned by what trash reporting Australians are now swallowing…

    • Andrew says:

      08:09am | 17/08/11

      Malcom doing his bit as usual for Julia. As Mark Riley asked her at the press club. What can we do to help you Prime Minister?

    • Bruce says:

      10:38am | 17/08/11

      Andrew: I saw Mark Riley ask that question. Oh, god I thought I was going to throw up. Toilet paper madam ?

    • Joan says:

      08:11am | 17/08/11

      History shows Labor don’t give surpluses, and history shows Gillard doesn’t keep promises- as one year on she celebreates her big No Carbon Tax lie. A more blatant thick skinned, backstabbing liar can’t be found in Ausralian History. Gillard and Team of cornballs of Brown, Oakeshoot, Windsor, Wilke, Flannery, Swan are the cause of lack of confidence, Australias own Monty Python Circus running the country- but nobody is laughing, - retail on the slide and jobs on the slide ,  gloom and doom has spread through the country at the prospect of having to endure   two more years of this cornball Team. It`s Gillard and Team of cornballs that are scaring Australians to death not Abbott and Hockey attacks.

    • Pete says:

      08:27am | 17/08/11

      try the lying rodent Joan, called that by his own party

    • Joan says:

      09:15am | 17/08/11

      To the nation and forever in history books - back stabber, liar Gillard is just that by her own actions.  ` lying rodent` just schoolyard name calling by some

    • Dave says:

      09:26am | 17/08/11

      Yeah Pete, seems like Juliar has earned the “lying rodent” tag hands down.

    • Pete says:

      09:31am | 17/08/11

      Joan, you’re not reading it right, it was said by a senior Liberal party member about Howard. And back stabbing liar is a damn sight worse than schoolyard name calling…and you’re being very selective as well. Check out Tony Abbott’s flip flops and any number of topics, why is he not called a liar as well?

    • Pete says:

      09:59am | 17/08/11

      Clever that Juliar thing Dave…

    • Joan says:

      10:11am | 17/08/11

      Pete: Gillard knifed peoples PM Rudd overnight-followed her No Carbon Tax statement to gain power- proved to be a blatant lie as she slugs a Carbon Tax on everything.  Now be specific and tell me about Abbott lies that are upsetting the voters and nation. Nothing beats the knifing of a PM and blatant lie to gain power.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      12:36pm | 17/08/11

      Joan: What deal was Abbott offering the Greens to gain a majority? What deal did he offer the Independents? Obviously it wasn’t that great otherwise they would have accepted it.

      The Carbon Tax was a result of the need for a Government and Liberals being unwilling to bargain. This is the same thing that happened in Tas, Liberal’s believe in absolutes not meeting halfway.

      And to be honest I do not want a party in control of our country’s finances when they can’t even manage their own party finances, in case you’re wondering I’m talking about the fact that the Liberal Party is almost completely broke.  http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/finances-see-liberal-tensions-explode/story-e6frg6n6-1225949134750

    • Joan says:

      01:27pm | 17/08/11

      Pete: Abbott not so weak as Gillard has demonstrated she is -  to give into independents and Brown ludicrous demands. Abbott demonstrated no intention of kowtowing to the likes of Oakeshott, Windsor, Brown, and Wilke. Desperate Gillard sold any crediblity she had to become a lame duck puppet PM dancing to the minority tune.

    • PTom says:

      07:43pm | 17/08/11

      Really Joanliar.
      History shows Labor don’t give surpluses. You should tell Keating that.

    • Holly says:

      08:12am | 17/08/11

      @Knemon ....same with Qantas - I think it was Eric Abetz trying to link Qantas “restructure”  to carbon tax.  This has been totally refuted by CEO.  Seems like a lot of Punch commenters do not like the constant lies of the opposition being exposed. 

      Making comparisons of the government debt with mortgages is quite frankly ridiculous.  If any Australian mortgage holder had an income/debt ratio of the government they would be laughing.

    • Joan says:

      08:58am | 17/08/11

      The truth is companies have looked at their prospects in Australia with Gillard and Team of cornballs Brown, Oakshott, Windsor, Wilke, Swan, Flannery, running the country for next 2 years and are making adjustments accordingly.  This is a D ( donkey ) grade team - and investors, companies , and Australian people are tightening, adjusting their financial belts accordingly.

    • Chris L says:

      04:45pm | 17/08/11

      Joan, how can you even know what a lie is when you begin a paragraph of pure conjecture with “The truth is”?

    • DJ says:

      08:23am | 17/08/11

      You are an absolute Joke Farr !

    • John says:

      09:44am | 17/08/11

      Good intelligent comment! Told us plenty.
      Malcolm-you must not write anything accurate but you need to denigrate the PM at every opportunity.

    • Joel B1 says:

      08:28am | 17/08/11

      Here’s an idea. Why don’t Gillard and Swan make up a new tax and claim it’s going to save the environment when really it’s only about gouging some money from nameless companies who employ Australians.

      You could say that Australians are really bad on a per capita basis for a particular gas emission. The gas wouldn’t be a real pollutant like the sewerage that Sydney pumps untreated into the Pacific Ocean and would often used by plants and put in beer.

      And you could single out the Aluminium industry as an example and ignore that most of it is shipped overseas anyway. Or maybe you could try to get miners to mitigate their energy use by powering those big earthmovers with a few Prius motors, or maybe just dig the coal and rare-earths out by hand. The same rare-earths that make a hybrid car a possibility, but don’t tell Bob Brown that. He thinks they run on Gaia magick.

      That’ll fix the Australian economy. Too bad the libs haven’t got a similar tax-based-on-a-lie scheme.

    • Joan says:

      08:50am | 17/08/11

      Giilard on track to break Australians with her Carbon Tax on everything , turn Australian landscape into one gigantic industrial zone- covered by unreliable wind turbines, meanwhile gaia man Flannery buys up waterfront property, Windsor dabbles in coal-seam gas having profited from farm property sale to a coal company. And Farr thinks Hockey and Abbott a national problem .

    • Ted says:

      09:37am | 17/08/11

      Isn’t it interesting how Windsor just happens to know which farm to buy and then sell within a year to coal companies at a signififantly high price than any farm in the area. Where is the fraud squad when a clear cut case exists?

    • Super D says:

      08:39am | 17/08/11

      This alleged $70 Billion black hole the government keeps spruiking and Mal has parroted is simply ridiculous.  The coalition has said all along they won’t raise the taxes and hence won’t spend the money raised yet the ALP boosters are only counting the revenue foregone.  Take the Carbon tax for example - I think it raises about $25bn yet triggers expenditure closer to $30bn so scrapping is is a $5bn benefit not a $25 bn cost.

      Besides which this all relies on treasury modelling which is held to be infallible.  This is the same Treasury modelling that predicted a surplus next year without the benefit of carbon taxes and mining taxes nor flood levies nor slashing private health rebates nor any of the governments other money grabs.  One thing we can be certain of is that if a surplus isn’t delivered confidence in Treasury modelling will hit a new low.

    • jf says:

      08:46am | 17/08/11

      This article appears to be nothing more than an ALP press release with Mal Farr’s name on it.

      I have no beef with partisan articles on this page but the author should at least have the integrity to declare their allegiance.

      Far from running down the economy, the opposition are highlighting Australia’s economic fortunes and opportunities and criticising the Government for their waste, mismanagement and policy initiatives that will waste the opportunity in front of us.

      The opposition is in criticism mode because there is so much to criticise.

      The government, on the other hand, seem to spend an extraordinary amount of time criticising the opposition for criticising them.

      Jesus they are a bad government. A government hopelessly out of depth, funded by a union movement that it increasingly likely to be corrupt and mates and hangers-onerers with their snouts deep in the pockets of union members, doners and industry super fund accounts.

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      08:56am | 17/08/11

      The current global financial crisis is a gift to the PM and the Govt. They can use it to postpone (actually ditch) the suicidal carbon tax for the ALP. I

      f the Greens protest the PM can become a hero of democracy and put the carbon tax to a Referendum. Let the people tell the Greens to get lost on the carbon tax.

      By these decisive actions the PM and ALP MPs can get rid of the deadly anchor around their necks which can banish them into the wilderness. These decisive actions will lift the Australian Economy and move us away from the bitter debate on the carbon tax.

      The PM and ALP leaders have been conned big time by abstract sexy hocus pocus Economics Principles which provide the logic to the carbon tax. Australia’s share of global CO2 emission is 1.6% of the world total CO2 emission. So the carbon tax will have negligible impact on global warming.

      A better way is to lift the embargo on uranium sales to India. India gets 2% of its electricity from Nuclear Energy and wants to increase this to 25%. India is very short of uranium and coal. France gets 80% of its electricity from Nuclear Energy and show this can be done safely.

      If we do this Win-Win action Australia can help India reduce the annual global CO2 emission which is MANY TIMES the annual TOTAL CO2 emission in Australia.

    • B4Bear says:

      11:45am | 17/08/11

      Why would you sell uranium to India when they have recently discovered the largest untapped amount of the mineral on Earth? It might (just might mind you) be better to look at using it ourselves.

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      01:04pm | 17/08/11

      @ B4Bear

      You are indeed very up to date. As I understand it, stand to be corrected, the new discovery of uranium in India is very low quality stuff.

      In any case we should do joint research with India and China on Thorium Reactor research. We are wasting $10 billions on R&D on failed renewable energy like wind and solar.

    • Andrew says:

      01:59pm | 17/08/11

      Dr, i dispute the statement that renewable energy is a failed investment.
      Last time i checked the sun, wind and waves were free, and were not going to run out in the foreseeable future.
      It will be a significant part of the worlds effort to reduce reliance on fossil fuels.

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      02:45pm | 17/08/11

      @ Andrew

      This is a common trap that the PM and Greens and many people have fallen into.

      Please do not think of just your simple solar heater and extrapolate and come out with a false dream. We are talking about power stations be it coal or solar or wind.

      I suggest you talk to an expert on solar or wind or google and see why.

      Let us look at the latest figures from the Productivity Commission in Box 4.1 of their Report on carbon prices. They show that the cost of electricity generation last year broke down this way: coal power $79-91 per megawatt hour; gas $97; wind, $150-215; solar $400-473. With these figures when and by how much must we tax a coal power station to make it go solar. Are we prepared to pay more by FIVE fold our electricity bills?

    • Andrew says:

      03:54pm | 17/08/11

      Good doctor, that is current prices, you are not factoring in any improvements to either efficiency or design. Things do not stand still in that industry, they move forward to a better and improved version.

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      04:18pm | 17/08/11

      @ Andrew says: 03:54pm | 17/08/11

      Andrew I agree with you that there is hope that in the long run renewable energy will be the best form of energy. But the long run can be very far away and so our dear ALP and Greens Govt must not cause all of us major pain and great harm to the economy.

      You can see for yourself that there is a big difference between $91 and $473.

      However to go along with your hope on solar energy I like to share with you some good news on solar energy in China. China buys coal from Australia at great expense. Their solar energy costs are much lower than ours.

      A few days ago the Chinese Govt says that they hope by 2015 electricity from solar energy may be comparable to that of coal power. If that is the case I think we can achieve the same in Australia by 2040 because of of our high costs of materials and labour for solar energy and our cheap coal. So dear PM please forget about the carbon tax now but may 2035 may be a good time to bring it in to push coal power into solar energy power.

      I work on real projects and I keep running into sexy abstract hocus pocus Economics Principles which seemed to have conned the PM and ALP leaders big time in the carbon tax.

    • Dr. B S Staye says:

      06:05pm | 17/08/11

      We should be investigating fruit loop reactors.
      They come in many colours and the only by product is a yummy smell

    • PTom says:

      08:33pm | 17/08/11

      Dr Goh,
      Like to quote those source on costs, because cost per Megawatt hour reports done at different times in different countries come no where near you figures.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

      Based on those wind cost is about the same a nuclear and solar is between 2 to 1.5 that of coal, no where near the 5 you claimed.

    • Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

      10:03pm | 17/08/11

      @ PT Tom

      I agree fully with you costs of energy sources varies greatly from country to country. As I pointed out to solar energy supporters there is good news from China. They expect solar power station to be competitive to coal power station by 2015. Bear in mind their solar energy costs are really cheap in China. Solar heaters cost only about TEN PERCENT what they costs in Australia. Added to the equation in favour of solar energy they have to use expensive coal with transport costs added from Australia.

      Bearing in mind these facts that is why I say Australia can only expect solar energy power station to be competitive to coal power station in 2040.

      On the figures I quoted please go and look at the Productivity Commission website. Productivity Commission in Box 4.1 of their Report on carbon prices. They show that the cost of electricity generation last year broke down this way: coal power $79-91 per megawatt hour; gas $97; wind, $150-215; solar $400-473.  These are NOT my figures picked up from thin air.

      You better ask the ALP-Green Govt to sack the Productivity Commission if you think they are very wrong here for AUSTRALIAN Data

    • Holly says:

      09:10am | 17/08/11

      Just read that Tony Abbott also told Qantas lie in parliament question time.  So come on coalition commenters - why do you not get upset by Tony Abbott’s constant lying.  Or is it really just a lot of noise and you don’t really care about lies except if someone other than Tony Abbott tells them.  You are actually admitting that you want a liar as prime minister.  That is quite weird.

    • Joel B1 says:

      09:20am | 17/08/11

      “You are actually admitting that you want a liar as prime minister.”

      No. We actually already have a liar as our PM. And as our treasurer.

      “There will be No Carbon Tax under any government I lead” PM Gillard.

      “You must be hysterical if you think we’re going to bring in a Carbon Tax” Treasurer Swan.

    • BP says:

      09:44am | 17/08/11

      I have to ask Holly. What lie “exactly” did Tony Abbott give? All the quotes I have seen show that he queried how the government could justify imposing a carbon tax when the current state of the economy already had companies like QANTAS and OneSteel downsizing.

      That is not blaming the carbon tax and is definately not a lie. It is a reasonable question about the sanity of imposing a new tax which has dubious, if any, benefit at a time when the world financial stage is in upheaval. If he did not raise a question like this with the government he would not be doing his job.

      The thing I find funny is that the question remained unanswered and has now somehow been turned into Abbott saying the carbon tax was responsible for the company restructures. Have a look at Hansard about what he really said and not what the ALP would like you to believe he said.

    • Anne says:

      09:13am | 17/08/11

      Interesting how Gillard and her pro Labor journo’s (Farr especially) like to call Abbott and the opposition as negative and NO to everything.
      When has Gillard not been negative about Abbott and the Coalition and when doesn’t Gillard say NO to them?
      As soon as Abbott opens his mouth or the Opposition make comment it’s NO and all negative from Gillard and the pro Labor journo’s as in this little piece by Farr.

    • DC says:

      09:43am | 17/08/11

      Labor has no option but to do this because they have achieved nothing positive, let alone without wasting billions and employing more pen pushing civil servant parasites.

    • MDG says:

      11:18am | 17/08/11

      What’s with the constant bleating about Labor growing the public service?  Yes, it’s grown (so has the population it serves in case you hadn’t noticed), but much, much slower than it did under Howard.

    • Tony says:

      08:48pm | 17/08/11

      When Swan opens his mouth the economy looks shaky.
      Its obvious he doesn’t have a clue what he is doing.

    • Randel says:

      09:14am | 17/08/11

      Let’s face it, we are busted in the suburbs with the population demanding that someone else fix their monetary problems rather than themselves. WA mining boom requiring 400,000+ people over the next decade, get off your fat arses people and make some decisions about your own future & economic position and we might actually see our politicians have to formulate good policy rather than pandering to the minority voice that shouts the loudest.

      Tell a child they are stupid/naughty for long enough and they will believe it regardless of whether it is true. Same goes for the economy, tell the public/markets for long enough that we are on a collision course to disaster and pretty soon the message in the ‘burbs is we are on the titanic with the iceberg in front of us with the poor results to follow.

      If Joe is so sure we are about to crash & burn, tell us the facts about why and an alternate position based on those otherwise, shut up and fall in behind the mouth piece that leads your part. Speculation & crystal ball gazing is best left for the stock market & race track, not policy making that impacts the whole nation.

      I rate Joe Hockey and would vote for him in a second if he would reach down & grab a set and provide an alternate, positive, vision for Australia.  Is this too much to ask of a politician ?

    • SD says:

      09:33am | 17/08/11

      And if he provides the alternative too soon, the me to ALP will copy it and screw it up as they have consistently done before. How quickly we forget the ALP rubbishing of the Lib direct action policy on the enviroment, that Guliar has now copied large chuncks of.

    • Kika says:

      10:00am | 17/08/11

      Agreed - both sides of politics are just woeful. If Joe Hockey stepped up into leadership of the libs I reckon they’d have half a chance with the swinging voters. I’ve voted labor my whole life, but if Joe was leader I’d vote for him because I think he has a) a brain b)  can speak intelligbly c) would represent Australia well overseas instead of looking like a gibbering budgie smuggling buffoon and d) can speak about policy and actually provide some leadership instead of looking like a 10 year old school bully.

    • truthnotfaith mike says:

      12:08pm | 17/08/11

      @SD… so you are saying that better policy was created by the opposition actually putting forward ideas and policies… Is this not the way government is meant to work? No matter who is in opposition we can create better outcomes for Australia. I voted liberal but hell, i wish i hadn’t. I want positive and emerging ideas not negativity. Look at Joe’s face, he used to smile all the time, body language gives it away. If they got the answers or policies at the moment he should have a VERY smug smile on his face like the mona lisa. That is what worries me. Labor cocked shit up, but we are sailing well into the future, what i want is my team to show me how they going to do it better, NOT sink the boat.

    • Easy Savings says:

      09:22am | 17/08/11

      “confident that we have a Government who has passed the test before” No, that was Kevin Rudd’s Government. They lost their way, remember and had to be replaced?

      “Mr Hockey doesn’t want to get rid of ALL of them - he would save $60 billion and still have to find $10 billion.”

      * Scrap NBN and leave it up to the private sector = $50 Billion.
      * Stop the Boats = approx $5 Billion (going by how much the Government has spent on that over the last few years and the times they’ve had to increase the budget)
      * Not implement disastrous pink batts style schemes (again, let the private sector do what the private sector is good at) = $2 Billion.
      * Get rid of a few public servants. You know, like that extra 200 Julia Gillard apparently needs to do her job for her in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

      Anything else?

    • Kika says:

      09:52am | 17/08/11

      Pink batts - the PRIVATE sector RAN the scheme and claimed the rebates from the government. The government had little to do with the actual business of installing the batts. We live in a democratic capitalist country - private companies run their industries, not the government! They were responsible for the cked up scheme as they were too greedy getting their cash from the government they had no regard or care for who they were sticking up into the ceilings to do their work for them.
      Guess who’s liable for the fires and the damage to people’s homes as a result of the scheme? Not the government - the SHONKY insulation installation companies!!

    • Jimmy G says:

      09:57am | 17/08/11

      “Not implement disastrous pink batts style schemes (again, let the private sector do what the private sector is good at)”  Yeh , right, It was the private sector that installed the pink bats & cheated & lied & committed fraud

      How is this for saving - scrap the disastrous Joint Strike Fighter that the Howard Government blundered into . Or not going into another pointless war , based on lies & fabricated evidence, without at least working out an objective. Or how about not squandering billions on pointless infrastructure with money borrowed from Japan & paid to US contractors (ie the Alice Springs - Darwin train)

    • MDG says:

      10:00am | 17/08/11

      1) Not spending money is not the same as saving it, and the private sector can’t build an NBN or it would have done so by now.  Even if it did it would only build it in profitable, ie metropolitan, areas and abandon the rest of the country to the 20th century.
      2) “Stopping the boats” isn’t free either.
      3) The HIP is over and done with.  No savings to be made there unless you’re proposing to scrap the repair scheme?
      4) Farr made it pretty clear that you could sack the entirety of the APS and still fall short of Hockey’s target so removing 200 people from PM&C won’t do it either.

    • Dan2 says:

      10:07am | 17/08/11

      - The NBN is a commitment over many, many years. And it’s only worth $36 billion. Scrapping it would save maybe 3 billion a year…at best.

      - $5 billion stopping the boats? It doesn’t cost nearly that much. Plus, the Coalition will have to rebuild facilities on Nauru, and pay for their upkeep. There’s no evidence to say Nauru would work, and housing asylum seekers within the community is considerably cheaper.

      - ‘Not doing something’ doesn’t actually make money.

      - A few public servants. Lets sack 10 thousand people. On roughly $70k each. That makes….$0.7 billion. A little way to go yet.


      There is no way Hockey can pull $70 billion out of the Government purse. And any way he manages to find, definitely wont be pretty.

    • Easy Savings says:

      03:56pm | 17/08/11

      re Pink Batts: And yet the Government paid for their shonkiness. Not a smart Government, is it? If the contractor doesn’t do the work to standard, you don’t pay them. Not only did this Government pay them, it’s paying to clean up their mess as well. Why aren’t those companies that did the shonky work paying for it?

      re NBN: The private sector hasn’t done it because people aren’t demanding it yet. Just look at the appalling sign up rates for the NBN. How many customers do they have out of the thousands of homes they’ve connected (last I heard Tasmania was still only at 11%)? Fibre may be the future - but the future is still a long way off. Even when the NBN becomes the only way to connect, how many will be paying for the top of the line 100 mbps service? I suspect the large majority will be happy on the cheaper 25 mbps minimum speed (marginally better than the theoretical maximum of ADSL2+‘s 24 mbps).

      As for the cost:
      - $11B went to Telstra to buy their old network this year.
      - About $1B went to Optus to shut-down their HFC cable.
      - “The NBN business case forecasts capital expenditure of $2 billion (2011/2012), $3.5 billion in the 2012/13 year. And there is another $1.7 billion in operating expenses over those years.” So there’s at least $19B over the next 3 years alone.

      There are some big crappy programs that can be ditched too. Scrap some Collins Class Submarines ($10B spent on repairs over the last 10 years alone) or the $36 Billion planned for their replacements. Sure, throw in the next generation not-yet-working whizz-bang fighter planes that don’t exist while we’re at it.

      I’m sure if the journalists looked hard enough, they could find plenty of areas where Billions of dollars can be easily saved.

    • Jane says:

      09:33am | 17/08/11

      Although I agree that Liberal are over negative and do threaten to de-stabalise the government and the economy it maybe a good thing. With people saving instead of spending it improves the national balance sheet, reduces inflationary pressure and shakes the tree free of deadwood uncompetitive outdated business while there is plenty of more productive employment available. When the carbon tax is introduced poorly performing business would already be forced out so the impact of it will be minimal and people will realise it is not the scary monster LIberal paint it to be. So yeah, maybe the eocnomy needed to be talked down a bit to stop silly spending and encourage paying down debt and saving.,

    • Anna C says:

      09:34am | 17/08/11

      If anyone is talking down the economy it is this stupid Government that is doing it, by proposing to introduce new taxes at a time of world wide economic uncertainty. Why do they think people have stopped spending and are now saving more than ever before; because they are worried about the future?

      If this his government was serious about looking after our economy then now would be the time to reduce taxes, cut red-tape and introducing serious reforms, not pie in the sky policies like the Carbon tax. This government would do well to take a page out of Bob Hawke and Paul Keating’s book on economic reform.

    • Aitch B says:

      10:00am | 17/08/11

      Do big businesses really listen to what an Opposition has to say on economic matters? Have they ever?

      Historically Oppositions are rarely in a position to change the country’s economic fortunes unless they have the balance of power in the Senate and can block legislation or have it amended to a point where it becomes seriously different from what the government originally intended.

      I think the media gives the Opposition far too much credit in terms of its infuence or potential influence on the economy.

      I too would like to see more articles covering what the Government is or isn’t achieving, its plans and the influence that those achievements and plans might have on the economy. By taking the Opposition to task on such matters the media is being seen by many to simply be putting up smokescreens and are consequently accused of bias.

    • Max Redlands says:

      10:01am | 17/08/11

      “His difficulty is that he doesn’t have spare cash to keep the economy ticking over so it survives a global crisis, without going into the red again.”

      “again”?! - I thought we were still in it.

    • Hear me out.... says:

      10:04am | 17/08/11

      I have built up enough nerve to make a comment, this site can be very aggressive any way here I go. Just being an average person I try to look at things logically. When Howard left he also left enough enabling Labor to carry us through the GFC. Thank goodness. Ok, the pink batts could have worked but shonks got the better of it, still Labor should have been more vigilant in keeping on top of it. School halls are nearly finished, this has kept the bloke down the road from me in work for a while. However I recall when Keating put on the rage of the GST, it frightened the sh.., out of me.  There was no compensation with that if there was remind me. Anyway we got through that and survived. Now with the carbon tax, Abbot is frightening the sh.. out of me with his rage.  This carbon tax a similar deal, but there is compensation to help keep my finances afloat. Really all this nonsense regarding the government is inept while the economy is doing well compared with the rest of the world makes me nervous. They must be doing something right. I would like to know what Abbott would have done if the independents backed him in this hung parliament…..

    • JT says:

      11:02am | 17/08/11

      ‘’ but there is compensation to help keep my finances afloat. ‘’

      In other words, you are part of the unproductive part of society being kept afloat by the productive part.

      ‘‘Abbott would have done if the independents backed him in this hung parliament…..’‘

      He would have called a new election to be rid of them and gain a true mandate but face reality, only an absolute fool could ever believe the greens and independents would have ever supported Abbott.

    • Joan says:

      11:05am | 17/08/11

      The Carbon tax will not change the world climate and Australia only contributes 1.5% world emissions. So what`s the point? GST is a smart tax - everyone pays some tax sometime for the privilege of living and receiving services in Australia. Abbotts not in government with independents because he didn’t give in to all to their demands. Gillard bought her poison chalice, and submits to each and every whim of independents and Brown….. her No Carbon tax promise broken just months after made to voters-  the majority rules means nothing to Gillard or independents . More nervous and sleepless night in store for you with Gillard cornball Team running the show on their own merits now and not courtesy Howard/Costello surplus post 2007 win. The retail slide, job slide, just started, .... start biting your nails nervous nellie the Australia downward slide just begun. ... a nation and industry spooked by Gillard Team, a country led by a PM spooked by CO2- Gillard the CO2 buster…. busting Australia

    • BP says:

      11:14am | 17/08/11

      @HMO. When the GST was introduced there was supposed to be no need for compensation as there were to be corresponding reductions in a raft of other taxes already in place. For the most part this was the case however the effectiveness was watered down by the concessions the government had to make to get the support of the Democrats to pass the legislation through the senate.

      With the carbon tax there is definately a compensation component. However, this component does not cover everyone who will be affected and is limited to what treasury modelling has suggested the oncoming price hikes will be. Some families will receive up to $9.90 a week compensation with the scale sliding down as income goes up. If, and it is a huge if, the modelling is correct and all the cost increases when amalgamated across every sector of the economy only equate to a $9.90 weekly increase to the cost of living then for the duration of the tax some people may be better off. What you then have to ask is what happens after the tax becomes an ETS. The cost increases will remain but the compensation will either have to stop/be decreased as the government will not be getting the revenue directly anymore. The ability to buy carbon credits offshore will result in Australian capital heading overseas with no real benefit to Australia or to you.

      The government has proven itself unable to deliver any of its promises as initially spruiked and as such deserve to be labelled inept. It seems they come up with a thought bubble, make an announcement, realise the thought bubble actually needs a bit of substance, go around again, deliver a revised announcement, achieve less than the revised announcement and then claim a victory.

      To say the economy is doing well is really only half the story. One sector of the economy is going great guns and that is the resources sector. Every other sector is hurting and hurting badly. For some reason the government then regard it as beneficial to hit the one sector supporting the rest of the economy with not one, but two, new taxes. This may result in mining companies moving offshore to countries without these taxes or curb expansion of existing mines. It may not either. However, if you have a limited budget and two stores selling exactly the same product but one is more expensive than the other, which will you buy at?

      As for what Abbott / the Coalition may have done we will never know for sure. I doubt the stimulus packages would have been quite so generous, the NBN would have been knocked back after a cost benefit analysis showed it is not value for money and we would not be staring down the barrel of new taxes.

      Yes HMO, at present we are indeed in a better position than most of the rest of the western world. But instead of comparing where we are against them, we should be comparing where we are against where we started. What if I start out with a good paying job and a nest egg of $20K and through my own poor management end up with no nest egg and a credit card debt that is costing me a fortune in interest? My only possible way out is by demanding a raise from my boss without a proven increase in productivity, or if self employed, by raising the fees I charge my customers (Resources rent tax, carbon tax). I could possibly try and improve my money management and not be as wasteful as I have been and maybe realise I don’t need that Porsche (NBN) in the driveway when a Camry will do the same job, just maybe not as fast or as flash.

    • Jane says:

      11:38am | 17/08/11

      the real issue is the two+ speed economy with some business closing because the Australian dollar is so high. Mining boom makes the dollar high so they should compensate business their activity hurts. Hence the mining tax to fund tax cut for other sectors.  So I would also like to know what would the opposition do? Sacking staff in non mining areas is Joe Hockeys way but that just adds to the slow speed sectors. Tax cuts just adds to inlflation. So Labor not really as scary as the opposition if you look at their policies.

    • Hear me out...... says:

      12:04pm | 17/08/11

      Thanks Joan for replying, holy sh…. - this is pretty much doom and gloom for Australia then. I need to know, are you a savvy economist? Can you lead me to these facts because what I have read predicts light at the end of the tunnel. How did you know I bite my nails? I’m not sure whether I do this because my 20 year old daughter just bought her first home(low interest rates plus she is a hard worker) or I take too much on board when I read the glass is always half empty. Best thing I can do just like I tell my children, never give up and don’t take verbatim what you read or is reported, always investigate and get the facts.Thanks anyway.

    • Jane says:

      12:22pm | 17/08/11

      @Joan, the carbon tax is only for 3 years before the ETS kicks in which was the policy they did had. Studies have now shown that an ETS is more effective if led in by a carbon tax. If the government changes their mind because an outcome is improved then they should be encouraged to do so. I think it a very juvenile and precious reaction by Australians, quite minor difference to us individually.  Why bother to do so? Because both parties have pledged to reduce emissions 5% by 2020 so she did not have the choice of whether we act or not, only to choose the best way to do it. She may not even believe the science herself but as a nation we are committed. Liberals will also have to achieve the same ends though they do not have the answer to how we will pay for it yet but it will cost at least double and be far less effective.  Liberal are only good at misleading it appears.

    • Hear me out...... says:

      01:09pm | 17/08/11

      Jane…. your comments are common sense, I can only see this carbon tax stimulating the economy.

      JT… maybe I was unproductive considering a dysfunctional upbringing. Also compensation is paid up to earnings of 80k. Do you earn more than that? If so it should not really change your lifestyle too much.
      If Abbott was chosen by the independents and he called a new election, I would bet my unproductive bottom dollar on Labor getting in. In any case I feel the current hung government are making more achievements. It is keeping them on their toes as apposed to a majority government. Cheers.

    • Joan says:

      01:47pm | 17/08/11

      Hey guys in three years Australia will be dead bust broke courtesy of CO2 buster Gillard- Australians are spooked by the Gillard and her cornball Team. .... just keep following the downward slide in retail and upward rise in jobless figures. You don’t have to be a Rhodes scholar to do that . And Jane I`m not one for singing from Gillard doom and gloom world coming to an end hymn book. No the nation is not committed- now that dams are full and rivers run - the world mass hysteria subsided post Al Gore as reality and real facts presented.

    • JT says:

      02:22pm | 17/08/11

      ‘’ If so it should not really change your lifestyle too much. ‘’

      So you agree with taking my money and giving it to yourself?

      ‘‘I would bet my unproductive bottom dollar on Labor getting in’‘

      Not likely, they barely scrapped in last time. Next time they will be decimated.

    • Jane says:

      03:04pm | 17/08/11

      Well Joan, you better tell Tony Abbott that as he is also commited to the 2020 targets and has the awful direct Action policy to achieve that end.. Oh wait…you want them to change their mind if they receive information that warrants it? So why criticise Julia Gillard for doing exactly that?  I doubt they will dare change their mind now after making such an issue of “honesty”.

      Of course if the science is proven incorrect the issue will require a re-visit but the floods only underline the severity of events that climate change can bring, only underline the cost it can result in and remind us all that Australia will suffer earlier and far more devastatingly than any other developed nation.  As long as any doubt remains that man contributes we should be the loudest and most committed for that reason alone. I am not a scientist but note the debate is only on degrees of our impact but they seem firm on the consensus that we do contribute.

      You do not understand if you think full dams proves ithe science wrong, you would be alone on that assumption.

    • Jane says:

      03:52pm | 17/08/11

      JT
      Both NSW and Victoria are unproductive parts of Australia relying on QLD and WA for their existance. To the tune of 70billion dollar I believe. We do not have a capitalist society, rather a mixed economy, so we rely heavily on redistribution to operate.  Also the cost of expanding energy infrastructure is often due to the demands placed on it by wealthy individuals and business so it is unfair to charge a pensioner for eg when they have one room and one little heater. If we all where so frugal the expansion and new plants would nto be necessary and the 5% reduction achieved on a voluntary basis. So without compensation it could be said the poor are subsidising the greedy consumption of the rich.

    • JT says:

      04:26pm | 17/08/11

      ‘‘So without compensation it could be said the poor are subsidising the greedy consumption of the rich.’‘

      Sure, if you were a complete idiot who didn’t understand economics. Of course in the real world, those rich people and businesses you call greedy provide the jobs and wealth creation that allows this incompetent government to waste money on green lunacy.

    • Anna C says:

      10:04am | 17/08/11

      Malcolm why don’t you write an article extollng the virtues of this government rather than criticising the Coalition every week? I mean come on now if this government is doing such a fine job governing our country then why aren’t you writing about that?

    • Rose says:

      12:03pm | 17/08/11

      Maybe it’s because the government are actually doing a relatively good job overall but the Opposition are constantly harping on about problems that don’t really exist. Yes the cost of living has gone up a fraction, but for the majority of Australians this is not even close to being a big problem, their income more than covers it. Is it so bad if some people have to slow down some of their excessive spending? For the majority of those struggling there is a sound safety net to ensure they can cope, maybe not comfortably but well enough to ride out the storm.
      One of Australia’s biggest problems is that there is too much negative talk, the point of this article, Australians really need to get a grip and realize we are doing pretty well, that we will ride out this storm and we will continue to enjoy some of the highest living standards in the world. Australians now out whinge the Poms and it is getting to the point of being pathetic, and the whingeing is led by the Opposition who are fully aware that Australia is really in good shape considering the state of the rest of the world!

    • Steve says:

      12:04pm | 17/08/11

      I am with you Anna C. I am sick of the focus on the opposition. They are the bloody opposition not the Government.

      In the past, 2 years out from an election, oppositions are normally struggling for air time. We have an economically incompetant treasurer and the media focus is on the opposition.

      The last time the Liberals were in Government they managed the economy very well. Labor inherited an economy in very fine shape. The actions of Wayne Swann have caused the business community and consumers to lose confidence not the opposition.

      I am waiting for Mr Farr to come up with a reason for the failure of Labor’s border security policy to be Tony Abbotts fault

    • Martin says:

      12:38pm | 17/08/11

      @Rose. Is that the colour of your glasses? I think that you must be wearing them right now if you think Australia is in good shape. Unemployment on the rise, inflation on the rise, our dollar is too high, March quarter recorded negative GDP growth, June quarter yet to be reported could well be negative that meaning we are in a technical recession. Had a look at the recent retail figures? Fair dinkum, you Labor people are a worry.

    • Rose says:

      02:30pm | 17/08/11

      No Martin, there is no doubt there has been an economic downturn but the majority of Australians are doing just fine. People going on as if Australia is plummeting headfirst into bankruptcy are a joke, Australia is weathering the storm quite well. People needing to tighten their belts a bit is not a crisis, it’s just life, it goes in cycles. Australians are behaving like a bunch of spoilt brats,whingeing constantly about a non-existent crisis. Buggered if I know how any of you would cope in a real crisis.

    • Martin says:

      03:18pm | 17/08/11

      @Rose, remember the 1991 recession? I had a business then and that wasn’t much fun, I can assure you. Who was in power? Bloody Labor. We have more problems on the way this time I can assure you, and we have these clowns running the place yet again. Maybe you have your bum sitting in some public service job, so you have no contact with the real economy. Good luck to you. However, you shouldn’t get on here and spruik “everything’s Rosy” when it is obviously not. BTW if everythings booming,  how come Swan is now distancing himself from a surplus in 2012-2013?

    • Shooter says:

      05:24pm | 17/08/11

      Martin stop blaming everyone and anyone for your poor management skills. Take responsibility for your own weak skills as a business owner. Stop blaming everyone and start accepting your faults. I would like to apologise I thought you were a lot younger buy the way you carry on and you childish name calling.

    • Andrew says:

      09:55pm | 17/08/11

      Interest rates are always higher under a labor government too.

    • Leo says:

      10:04pm | 17/08/11

      Good Point @AnnaC. I am not sure why or when Malcolm became so lop-sided, I seem to recall some pretty engaging articles in the old days, must be old age I guess. Disappointing, but perhaps its just easier to pickup the paycheck. And @Shooter has arrived to “shoot” the messenger again with the personal attack. I suspect he has never met @Martin so how would he know about the particular faults he is referring to? I guess all we little people have them and he is just pointing out the obvious to us. err Thanks

    • Martin says:

      12:28pm | 18/08/11

      @Shooter, good management skills more like. I went quite OK, a lot people didn’t, that’s my point. Being the Labor sicophant that you are you want to take the blame off a crappy governrment and try and blame the individual for circumstances that were created by that government. Anyway, you sound like a typical union workforce type of chap, so I couldn’t expect much better could I? No doubt you were driving around withn one of those “work choices” stickers on your bumper bar back in 2007.

    • Steve says:

      02:10pm | 18/08/11

      Shooter. The 1991 recession was particularly savage and preceded by commercial interest rates of 21% - 22% and sometimes higher.

      A lot of people with good management skills fell by the wayside.

      Keating always believed the RBA were too aggressive in raising rates and too slow to reduce them when the turn came.

      The survivors of that recession went on to build the boom economy that we enjoy today however I don’t believe in labelling the victims of the recession as being poor managers. 21% interest on your business loan and an empty order book.

    • Ross says:

      10:11am | 17/08/11

      The more I read from most of your contributers more I am sure we have the Government we deserve.

    • Anubis says:

      10:33am | 17/08/11

      ICB on you Farr

      “while consumers have gone on strike and are keeping the dough under the bed or paying off debts” - nonsense. Consumers are battling to keep the lights, gas and water on while at the same time either paying historically high costs fro rent and other living expenses or ludicrously large mortgages(even the US has acknowledged that the Housing Market in Australia is the most overpriced one in the world). People no longer have money left for discretionary spending at the likes of Harvey Norman et.al.

      “guiding the national economy towards putting the Budget in the black” - Absolute bull-pucks. I said it from the start that Labor would never get the budget in black by 2012/13. They are too addicted to wasteful spending. The only way they could show the budget in the black in the timeframe they have indicated would be through some highly creative accounting.

      As for the Carbon Tax - This is a ludicrous time to be imposing an economy wide tax that will affect the cost of everything Australia’s makes or does. No reduction in emissions will result from this impost,  the only things that will reduce are household budgets, industry productivity and our international competitiveness. The Carbon Tax has the potential (under current economic circumstances) to do far more damage to Australia than a second GFC ever could.

    • Jimmy G says:

      11:18am | 17/08/11

      “This is a ludicrous time to be imposing an economy wide tax that will affect the cost of everything Australia’s makes or does.”    So tell us - when is a good time to take market driven action to decouple economic growth from burning fossil fuels? Thats what its all about.
      Should Abbott also abandon his carbon tax - you know the one : it takes money from taxpayers and gives it selectively to polluters who want to make money out of reducing GHG emissions (but if they dont want to reduce GHG emissions , thats OK) - you know the one that ignores the free market in favour of a central bureaucracy - the one that Abbott himself ridiculed

    • Vader says:

      11:25am | 17/08/11

      How can you call “bullshit” on anything when all you’ve done is given your right wing <strong>opinion<strong>?

    • Jannie says:

      11:50am | 17/08/11

      “People no longer have money left for discretionary spending at the likes of Harvey Norman et.al.”    I have money to spend at the likes of Harvey Norman - but I buy the luxuries I really need on the internet where the prices are far cheaper & the service much better. The last time I went into HN was to look at a new Nikon camera - the sales person had no idea about it & suggested I get answers to my queries on the internet then come back to HN to buy it. I think the reason retail sales are down is because people are saving , instead of borrowing to buy stuff they dont need from overpriced stores with appalling service. 
      Venture into a Myers or David Jones - try to find a sales person.

    • Andrew says:

      12:09pm | 17/08/11

      What does the missus think of the NDIS?

    • Anubis says:

      12:22pm | 17/08/11

      I actually support the idea of an NDIS, as long as it is properly and adequately implemented. The logic of why it will take seven years to implement defies me though.

    • Andrew says:

      12:48pm | 17/08/11

      I reckon its a winner too mate.

    • Anubis says:

      01:15pm | 17/08/11

      @ JimmyG - Treasury recently released estimates (reported in todays papers0 that the impact to the economy will be a GDP loss of around$1 trillion dollars over 10 years.

      There is nothing Market Driven about the Carbon Tax. It is 100% government driven. And as far as decoupling economic growth from the burning of fossil fuels - where did you find that furphy? It is the new subterfuge to try to sell the Carbon Tax (that will have no effect on effect on our emission levels). Both the Greens and Labor are now saying that Australia will look forward to indefinitely retaining coal fired power stations in order to ensure base load power. If they were serious about reducing emissions they would be implementing a construction plan for Nuclear to replace coal fired plants.

      Abbott’s Direct Action plan is crap as well. The Libs have that plan as a result of Labor committing Australia to a 5% reduction at the Copenhagen CC summit.  I do not, and never have, supported the Liberal Party. Up until the last election I was a Labor voter. The incompetence and sheer arrogance and waste embodied by the Rudd Government had me change my voting preferences. Julia has just lurched from bad to worse since she took over.

      The IPCC and it’s huge coterie of scientists and assorted suck-hole politicians have yet to produce a single piece of evidence that proves Anthropogenic Global Warming (not a single conclusive marker). Real life observations are showing that there are errors in the Computer models as the real life climate events are not going anywhere near the Modelling predictions. No significant warming over the past ten years even though C02 levels have increased, the rate of sea level rises is flattening out, Arctic melt is being counterbalanced by Antarctic freezing, no hot spot in the troposphere has developed (a key feature of the computer modelling). In true scientific research this would require a re-assessment of the scientific protocols being used in order to understand why the models are wrong. In Climate Change science, the way it is now, where thousands of careers are at stake and billions of dollars at risk, there is no re-alignment of the procedures or models being undertaken. The Global Warming/Climate Change megalith has picked up so much momentum that if the brakes were to be applied in order to rationally address the divergences, then so many careers (scientific/political and Economists) would be in tatters that it would take at least a century for science to regain credibility on big issue agenda.

    • Andrew says:

      02:33pm | 17/08/11

      Anubis, if Abbott had any guts he would drop the 5% target, it isnt legally binding, but he won’t and is another politician that wants to get elected on a lie.

    • Anubis says:

      03:10pm | 17/08/11

      @ Andrew - Agreed. Neither party warrants the trust of the Australian people and don’t feel that either of them are fit to hold the key to a child’s money box let alone have control over the Australian economy. There is currently a dearth of competent politicians in this country at the moment. Most of them are either Union ratbags whose sole purpose in life has been to snare a safe seat or they are silvertails who have gone into politics either for a lark or to further their own agenda or interests.

    • Economist of Melbourne says:

      08:41pm | 18/08/11

      @ Anubis - well written piece and I enjoyed reading it - you obviously know your stuff

      @ Vader - crawl back in your hole - at least Anubis has an opinion - what intelligent comment have you made on the blog today - “bullshit” -

    • John says:

      10:35am | 17/08/11

      It’s seems like Australia’s debt crisis is as bad as the US. One trillion dollars of foreign debt which calculates to about $50,000 for every child, woman, man and elderly. US holds 14.4 Trillion but has population of 300 million. I guess were are in the same boat. Lovely 95% loan leverage, low interest rates of 7% makes it very easy to get 250,000k loans for full-time employee’s. The reality is the majority are not paying their loans just their interest, this is going look ugly in the future. Reckless greedy banking policy’s, reckless buyers and investors will take Australia into the abyss. I suspect responsible people’s savings are going to be wiped off the face off the earth when GFC 2.0 comes along. They are already being lotted by insane financial inflation and housing inflation. The people of today are living off the savings of today, this means that the savings that exist today will be wiped away in the future to fund the present today.

    • Margaret Hamilton says:

      10:54am | 17/08/11

      Our Net Foreign Debt has been very high for many years - remember the Liberal Party Debt Truck in the lead up to the 1996 election - NFD was $190 billion odd when Howard took power and over $600 billion when he lost office in 2007.
      And then there is the awkward structural deficit problem - the one that Howard, Costello, Rudd , Gillard, Swan , Abbott etc etc refuse to speak about & pretend does not exist . A pox on both parties & populist economics (like giving tax cuts when the RBA is raising interest rates - economic vandalism)

    • Andrew says:

      10:39am | 17/08/11

      Tony has been good in opposing, however he has struggled in selling himself as an alternative PM. That is his major challenge if he is still leader when the next election comes around.

    • Max, says:

      10:44am | 17/08/11

      Gillards answer to everything is form a committee, start several more regulatory organisations and spend money like a drunken sailor.  Just to get rid of all those new public servants would be a huge saving.  Labor does not understand that the people do not trust them anymore and their reactions are their defence of what they are doing because they see the election 2 years away and understand it is not getting better but worse.  The Independents have a lot to answer for and I believe that they will be treated as roughly as Labor in the next election.  8-)

    • Joe Hockey says:

      10:56am | 17/08/11

      Malcolm sorry you are wrong.
      The Government’s own Budget papers from May (BP1page 10/6) show revenue is forecast to grow by $73billion over the next 4 years. Revenue is not falling and the $27billion Carbon Tax is ON TOP of that.
      So the Government expects to collect $100 billion of extra revenue over the next four years and they are moaning about how hard it is to get to surplus.
      You omit their hypocrisy.
      On the one hand they say the economy is fine and we will be fine.
      On the other hand they are saying we may be so badly affected by instability overseas they will need to break a promise they made just 3 months ago in the Budget Speech.
      C’mon we just want them to keep their word.

    • Shooter says:

      02:22pm | 17/08/11

      Joe you cant complain. You are sorted for life no matter how bad the country is doing. Perks for life. Try living like a normal Australians without the perks.

    • Martin says:

      03:25pm | 17/08/11

      @Shooter, excellent chip on shoulder stuff there. Everything that JH said is right. How about dealing with what he had to say instead the typical Labor fall back position of begrudging someone making a quid. Anyway, what about all the Labor stooges in parliament? They are not on the same “perks”. Try to talk some sense next time shooter.

    • Andrew says:

      03:43pm | 17/08/11

      If you are the real Joe hockey, don;t you have something better to do than comment on the punch?

      Not disagreeing with what you said but i think an elected official should probably have something better to do. That said they Nicola Roxon wrote a whole article but that happens on both sides, commenting is another thing.

    • Shooter says:

      05:08pm | 17/08/11

      Martin dont judge me as a labor supporter.  I don’t vote due to being an American citizen.
      How about dealing with what he had to say instead the typical Labor fallback position of begrudging someone making a quid.
      He is making a quid of hard working people like me. I own a successful business that employs 15 hard working Australians what has this Muppet done? He and the rest of Australian politicians are career politicians with no real knowledge of the real world.

    • More morons in mackay says:

      08:56pm | 17/08/11

      yeah good one Joe, talk about waist, to be taken seriously you need to “Go on a diet and stop the waste”.

      that needs to be chanted

    • Leo says:

      09:48pm | 17/08/11

      @ Shooter, like most from the left when faced with a coherent argument you resort to personal ridicule of your subject. Your reply to JH does not discount what he said nor mount an alternate viewpoint, infact you don’t engage with the points he raised at all, just an illogical, incoherent personal attack. Is that really all you have?

    • Anna C says:

      10:59am | 17/08/11

      The only reason we are in a better state than most other economies is because the Howard Government paid down our national debt and saved lots of money. If it wasn’t for this then our current government wouldn’t have survived the GFC so well because their wouldn’t have been any money in the kitty to splash out on pink batts and new school halls.

      But then again the Howard government wasn’t so great either because during their term in office they only managed to save so much money and pay down our debt because they refused to spend any of it on much needed infrastructure.

      Now that we are facing the GFC Part 2 and this time we have more debt than we know what to do with and no savings because this government has thrown it all away on and stupid infrastructure policies. I wonder how well we will weather the financial storm this time?

      Is it too much to ask for a government (from any side of politics) which listens to the people and spends our money prudently on things that we actually need rather than just pissing it away on useless shit? Is that really too much to ask for?

    • truthnotfaith mike says:

      12:27pm | 17/08/11

      So a 20billion surplus was what saved us? According to Hockey you can save that much but just sniffing around the budget. Therefore you say that our current debt is not that bad at all. It costs to run business, it costs to run lives, AND IT COSTS to hold back a major downturn. Our country has strood ahead of the world economies during a time when all others are retreating. I find it hard to believe how liberal the Labor prty has become, but currently it appears better to this wee duck the a liberal party led by a deliberate LIAR, not a person that had to change position due to realistic politics. I hoped Malcolm would be back when i voted, someone with forward and progressive positve polices of commercialism. BUT, no matter what we think of a party, our country is booming. Let us make it progress beyonfd selling dirt and become leaders in technolgy of the next wave for the world. Renewables.

    • Ross says:

      01:01pm | 17/08/11

      Yes it is to much to ask. if you listened to this lot we would go no wear and eat nothing and save nothing and give all the extra money to big business ,buy New Zealand and generally not have a clue or a plan for the future .That’s why governments good or bad are elected to run the country and not listen to you amateurs

    • RichaRD says:

      11:36am | 17/08/11

      The myth that politicians can “talk down” the economy is nonsense. The important aspects of economy are comprised of industry, production, manufucturing, agriculture, exports, etc., not a bunch of women sitting around and gossiping about the lastest fashions and trends and ways to spend hard-earned money frivolously.

      The only way a politician can do harm to the government is by passing laws that make it harder to do the above mentioned activities, i.e. industry, production, manufacturing, agriculture, exports, etc. Which is why, when the coming recession hits, it will be primarily caused by the government’s insistence on ramming a Big Fat Tax on Productive Industry down our throats.

      If the government is so dead set keen to set its very top, number one priority in office as a plan to reduce the international competitiveness of our Industry and hobble our economy with a Carbon Tax unprecedented in scale anywhere else in the world, either now or in the future, I mean what do they expect to happen to the economy?

      Its the height of Orwellianism Mal for you to suggest that the Coalition’s plan to reduce the cost of the burden of government on the Australian people is going to inhibit the economy. Are you mad? The smaller and less obtrusive the government, the more vital and vibrant the economy is able to be. Big Government has had its day, its been proven now beyond a shadow of a doubt to be wasteful, inefficient, and a drag on the economy.

      Thank god we have a shadow Treasurer in Joe Hockey who stands up for the little guy, and is determined to reduce the size and scope of wasetful Big Government.

    • Richard says:

      12:59pm | 17/08/11

      In the 2nd paragraph there, first sentence, I should have said: “the only way a politician can do harm to the ECONOMY is by blah blah blah”.

      This is an important point, its inaccurate to think that Wayne Swan, or any politician, is sitting in some sort of central command bunker pressing knobs and pulling levels and controlling the economy. The economy is made up of private individuals and companies doing private work for private, self-interested reasons.

      The only way to strengthen the economy is to give these private persons and private enterprises freedom to allocate their resources in the way THEY deem most appropriate and efficient for their own particular circumstances. All the government needs to do is Butt Out, and so far Joe Hockey seems to be the only politician in Canberra who recognises that fact.

    • Leo says:

      12:10pm | 17/08/11

      The economy is not flat-lining because the opposition is talking it down, its because the of the economically incompetent Labor party. Can anyone name a Labor government that has left power leaving less debt than when it gained power ?

    • Jimmy G says:

      01:00pm | 17/08/11

      Can you tell us why sovereign debt is always bad - yet seemingly private debt is a non issue?
      Why is it OK to spend resources on say , a war, but not borrow for infrastructure

    • Steve says:

      01:38pm | 17/08/11

      Well Jimmy your tax dollars don’t get used to pay private debt unless it’s your private debt.

      Businesses have a plan to pay back debt from profits. If the plan fails then the lender of the money feels the pain. Ie the shareholders of the bank that lent the money.

      Repayment of Govt debt comes from our taxes.

      Govt debt is not always bad. It is a good idea to borrow for infastructure because the taxes to pay it back are paid by future generations who also benefit from the infastructure.

      Going into budget deficit during the course of an economic cycle is also a good thing as long as you pay it back from budget surplusses before and after the decline.

      The problem is that Swann has recorded 5 massive deficits and one small surplus is forecast. The residual debt can’t be repaid withinn the economic cycle. We will not be back in credit when the next stimulas is required.

      This is largely because swann used the stimulas to try and stop a down turn rather than as an accelerant from the bottom of the cycle.

      Stimulas spending is largely symbolic because its effect fizzes quickly. Compare a half million dollar school hall to a business borrowing half a million for a new venture.

      Once built the school hall effect on the economy fizzes. But the business might be employing half a dozen people and churning $

      50,000 a week through the economy. Week after week.

      Business people invest with confidence when they feel the cycle has bottomed out and the Government is going to go into deficit for the short term and use the money for some worthwhile infastructure that will further increase confidence.

      There is no business person that I speak to that believed the stimulas saved the recession. We haven’t found the bottom yet. The recovery does not start until you find the bottom. The trouble is there is no money for stimulas when the bottom comes. The timing of the stimulas was wrong and nothing worthwhile has been built.

    • Andrew says:

      01:41pm | 17/08/11

      What a load of rubbish. Both sides supported the 1st round of stimulus, the 2nd was too much, however 2/3’rd’s of the debt comes from a reduction in revenue due to the GFC.

    • Leo says:

      05:40pm | 17/08/11

      Thanks @Steve for a very well constructed argument.

      Indeed @Jimmy all debt is not bad however there is no precedent showing Labor can managing the cycle and paying down their debt. Incoming conservative governments are repeatedly left to pay off Labor debts and make painful and unpopular cuts.

      In relation to Labor management of the GFC consider these simple facts; no other nation in the world went into the GFC with… no debt, massive budget surpluses, financially stable banks that did not require bailing out, and an ongoing mining boom to fuel cash flow and employment. Its an astonishing starting point considering where we find ourselves now.

    • poa says:

      12:24pm | 17/08/11

      Usual Farr stuff.
      Libs bad.
      Labor good.
      Don’t tell anyone how bad a job Labor is doing.
      You really lead the pack as an ALPologist Mal.
      Clearly there is no situation that would cause you to write anything bad about the ALP, nor good about Tony Abbot.
      Pathetic.

    • John says:

      01:36pm | 17/08/11

      As usual I don’t see you saying the same thing in reverse on Akerman’s column. So who is the pathetic one? You never have anything useful to say except bag Labor. You are a nothing!
      I don’t like Gillard but I like the Phoney One even less. Laissez-faire government does not protect us. In fact it leads even more into the two-class society.

    • poa says:

      02:42pm | 17/08/11

      Excellent stuff John.
      I don’t write such stuff on Piers blog is because he regularly points out issues with the Coalition as well.
      He really is one of Australia’s finest journalists.
      Bit much really you talking about laissez-faire government..what we are talking about here is laissez -faire journalism.
      Mal totally “leaves alone” one side of politics…for example he could write about the issues with Dobell..but he “chooses not to”

    • poa says:

      03:42pm | 17/08/11

      Funny thing..whenever I point out Mal’s dreadful bias I cop abuse from “John”..might be a Mal alias.
      Love the clever debate..“You are a nothing!”.
      I surrender in the face of such great intellect!

    • More morons in mackay says:

      08:48pm | 17/08/11

      Give up poa, johns whipping your shinny white butt

    • Reg "" says:

      12:34pm | 17/08/11

      Hypocrites Joe and Tony are the only ones talking doen the economy.. They are bothway back in the 1950s and incompetent

    • Shooter says:

      12:36pm | 17/08/11

      I don’t know why everyone is crying poor. I can’t wait for interest rates to sky rocket at least my investments will give me a better return. If you live beyond your means then you only have yourself to blame.  I am just counting the days till the big crash.

    • Martin says:

      03:36pm | 17/08/11

      @Shooter, Labor drone. I see you didn’t hold back on Joe Hockey above raving on about his “perks” and the like. And here you are boasting about your investments! Typical Labor tosser.

    • Shooter says:

      05:20pm | 17/08/11

      Hockeys perks are from mine and many other peoples hips pockets. Again I am an American so I cant vote.

    • Richard says:

      12:37pm | 17/08/11

      Sorry to rock the boat here dearies, but this is actually a good government. Every government does things wrong, rorts and wastes money but so do they get things right. It is their overall performance that is important, and this Labor government is doing it right.

      It is fair enough to attack Labor over pink batts and a dodgy stop the boats policies - they absolutely stink - and it is also fair enough to criticise and oppose the carbon tax, but credit where credit is due. The economy is weathering a second international beating, health and education is going well, government debt is aimed to be reduced and a whole lot of other good stuff that tells me that when it all pans out this government is doing it right.

      Don’t get me wrong. I will vote for the Liberals if they show they can govern this country, but not at the moment. It would not be a couple of policy failures, it would be a wrecked economy. Abbott is too untrustworthy, and the Libs just don’t seem to have a sense of what the future might look like and how they want to take us there.

      For all its problems Labor are a good government and I would not want my house, job and savings existing under an Abbott-led government.

      And before you let fly - I am not a Labor stooge, or member of the Labor party. In fact I am not a member of any political party or political organisation

    • Shooter says:

      01:33pm | 17/08/11

      Very true Richard but beware if you don’t agree with the liberals on here you will be savaged. They love to bully people who are swinging voters. They will lie to save their leader they will bully you if you don’t take their side. You have been warned.

    • Andrew says:

      01:47pm | 17/08/11

      Let the bashing begin.

    • BP says:

      03:30pm | 17/08/11

      @ Richard. Like you, I am not a member of any political party. But that is where any similarity ends.

      I believe anyone who can call this a good government without involving a sarcasm font is either myopic, deluded or needs to do more research. And please do not take that as a personal attack, I just fail to see any one policy this government has delivered effectively.

      I won’t even go back as the stimulus packages and will only focus on what Julia and Wayne have managed to stuff up on their own.

      1.  Health reform. Health is, and has always been, a State responsibility. Unless the government takes over full responsibility for Health it can hardly claim credit for anything the States allow it to do.
      2.  Boat people. You have already highlighted this one. Poor policy poorly implemented. Several times over.
      3.  Education. Please elaborate on your definition of “going well”? Like health education is a state responsibility. True, it looks as though a national curriculum may soon be introduced. But unless it allows families to move interstate without having to worry about whether their children are going to have to repeat a year or skip a year this accomplishes nought. And current indications are that this problem will still occur.
      4.  Economy. The economy is struggling along at two speeds. What point having a superstrong resource sector if the other pillars on which the economy rests are crumbling? Sure we are achieving best ever terms of trade due to high commodity prices and this is slowing our descent into the red. But what happens when the terms of trade swing even slightly the other way? Our other industries are struggling, consumer and business confidence is low. We are about to have two taxes imposed which will directly impact on the only sector of the economy doing well. Hardly a way to induce confidence.

      So our other similarity. I will vote Labor if they ever show they can govern this country responsibly. Difference being I doubt I will ever have to honour that pledge. At least under the last Liberal government I had a good job, a house, an investment property, and savings. I still have a good job (though I am worried about keeping it in the current climate)and a house, but the last four years have eaten away my savings. I am selling the investment property as a precaution to rebuild my cash reserve buffer in the event my good job does go out the door.

      While this government remains in power, I worry for the future. Prior to 2007 I was happy that the future was rosy and I even looked forward to being able to retire at 55. Now I am wondering if I will be in a position to retire at 67.

    • Anna C says:

      03:41pm | 17/08/11

      Richard, the economy is going well in comparison to the rest of the world but then that isn’t really saying much. We would be in an even better state if this government hadn’t squandered billions of dollars on dodgy policies like the pink batts and school halls schemes.

      The money that this country is receiving from the mining sector won’t be able to prop up our economy indefinitely. Eventually even China will reduce their demand for our coal, metals etc. This government should be making hay while the sun shines and investing these funds prudently in a future fund instead of wasting it on useless infrastructure and silly policies. I don’t want our country to end up like Nauru i.e. with nothing in the bank and lots of holes in the ground.

    • Ray says:

      12:58pm | 17/08/11

      The author seems tro have forgotten that the country is run by the Government, not the Opposition. So the Government is wholly to blame for the parlous state of the economy. He should review the policies that the Govt has implemented, and then acknowledge that the Govt has mishandled and mismanaged all of them.

      There are far worse policies to come, namely the carbon tax implementation, which will cause irreparable damage to the economy.

    • truthnotfaith mike says:

      01:38pm | 17/08/11

      Ray… in order to get a policy through it has to pass the lower chamber does it not? Therefore the opposition actually rules also!? The opposition has also had policies passed on the floor. and gloat that they have….chukles ... How could this occur if the government ruled supremely? If you have better way to govern objectively I am listening. Until then, this is our westminster system!?

    • Rob Banks says:

      01:05pm | 17/08/11

      Unlike some who have commented here I actually read the article, and I did so without left-right eye closed. The economic reality is it won’t matter who is running the country in 2014, Australia’s fortunes are far more dependent on what the rest of the world is doing rather than the actions of a Labor or Liberal treasurer. At present Swan isn’t too bad in that he is being fairly honest (in a political sense) compared to Joe Hockey who blathers out verbal diarrhoea. There is no way the Opposition can achieve their stated goals of reducing spending and finding $70 billion, and we wouldn’t want them too, nor would business and industry because to do so would stall the economy and risk high inflation. Politically both sides are stuffed, the Coal-ition may win the next election but 12 months of Abbott and Hockey could well make Rudd look like a genius in comparison.

    • Jay Santos says:

      01:09pm | 17/08/11

      Overlooking the inherent danger a financial illiterate like Swan possesses in being in control of our economic levers, the proposition put forward here by Malcolm Farr is preposterous and riven wih proselytic nonsense.

      Unlike Farr, the majority of us do not have our economic heads in the sand and recognise the critical fragility of our future economic health in the current global climate.

      To pretend - as Farr does - that the Treasurer has the bonafides to guide Australia through this is beyond gullibility and stupidity.

      Particularly galling is that he (Farr) challenges those who challenges Swan’s stubborn robotic economic orthodoxy.

      This is not “talking down the economy”.

      Stupidly, Swan et al. have bet our entire country’s future on Red.  China’s economic engine is powered by European and American fuel. It disappears…so does China…and so do we.

      Highlighting this fallability and Swan’s seeming ignorance of this fact - as Farr is wont to chastise Hockey for - is brazenly reckless and perilous.

      When they are not shutting up shop and relocating offshore, Australian companies are desperately demanding IR reform…yet Farr remains silent on this issue except to ridicule a potentially re-animated corpse of Workchoices under an Abbott prime ministership.

      Far from exhibiting any financial dynamism themselves the Canberra Press Gallery hacks demand that Tony and Joe show them the money.

      But have a look at their mathematics:

      They are (seriously) asking the Coalition to provide a replacement revenue stream from a tax that wouldn’t exist under their government to meet policy commitments made by Gillard that are predicated on the income and imposition of said taxes.

      And this is before any such mechanism(s) are even legislated.

      Truly hilarious stuff.

      And I thought Wayne Swan was stupid.

    • Very Popular Policy Free Liberals Nationals says:

      01:25pm | 17/08/11

      Ask not if the electorally popular Liberals National would will a federal election easily.
      Ask if the Coalition has any policies!

    • Tony H says:

      03:37pm | 17/08/11

      It seems they do have policies, I managed to find them in a few seconds. I have posted a link incase you are too stupid to use a search engine, here you go:
      http://www.liberal.org.au/

    • Rick says:

      04:01pm | 17/08/11

      Tony H are they the policies from last election that have been released in the fullness of time?

    • Tony H says:

      04:31pm | 17/08/11

      Rick, I assume to avoid the Labor “me too!” tactic, used by Rudd prior to the 2007 election, the Libs will keep a few up their sleeve until a month or so before the next election so they don’t get the “me too!” from whoever amongst Gillard, Crean, Ferguson, Smith or Rudd will be the Labor leader at that time.

    • Rick says:

      05:14pm | 17/08/11

      Tony H yeh I’ve heard that one before, trouble is that Tones is wearing short sleeve’s and for his next trick he’ll pull a rabbit out of his hat…...oh well how about pulling a hare out of his arse!

    • Steve says:

      01:45pm | 17/08/11

      USA debt is out of control. Ineffective oppostion to debt spiral. The debt problem is solved by borrowing more.

      UK debt out of control. Ineffective oppostion to gradual increase of debt prior to the GFC. Cuts are required but it is causing riots.

      Europe debt out of control. Inadequate opposition to debt spiral. defaults immenent. Riots in Greece due to cuts.

      Japan debt out of control. Ineffective opposition to debt spiral. No plan evident to rectify.

      Australia’s debt is Ok if you compare us to the most debt laden countries on the planet but crap compared to where we were 4 short years ago.

      Thanbk God we have an effective opposition to highlight the problem before it is too late.

    • John the Zombie says:

      01:48pm | 17/08/11

      Farr is like the captain of a ship that is sinking and telling all that it is not.

      I have decided to give Farr as he is very short on reading a quick view of how the US got the way it is and no it was not because they have two wars going but because the number of revenue they receive from taxes is drying up. Now how did this happen?

      Well let’s go back in time when the US was prosperous. During this period all people had jobs and the US govt was making money from the taxes but soon over time the cost of living started to rise but wages stayed still. Why did these living cost rise, because the economy was booming and there was curb by the govt to slow down the inflation. Soon the companies could not themselves compete with rivals that’s been manufacturing overseas and started moving jobs offshore. First were the steel mills that begun to close down lying of thousands of workers. As these workers left so did the business’s that relied on them closed doors. The diners that the workers went to, the small business that provided tools, office supplies and the sort also closed leading to more jobs loses. Soon banks, call centres, fabric jobs also started to close and move to countries like India, Brazil and China. More jobs lose occurred and as they happened taxes started to reduce. How did the govt react to this not by implementing changes but throwing more money, trying to stimulate the economy. Soon went the car manufacturers and it soon lead to the dying of the manufacturing industry and all the small and big business’s that relied soon much on them. Is any of this starting to sound familiar to anyone? Yes it is what is happening right now in Australia. Let’s look at it.

      Cost of Living over Wages - All Australians can see that our cost of living is outstripping our wages. Costs of foods, utilities and goods have gone up.

      Home repossessions - Increase in the amount of ppl defaulting and banks auctioning of housing has increased. Ppl are not building houses but renting and rental costs are rising. New houses and house sales are becoming stagnant and the housing cost is out of reach for most Australians.

      Job Losses- Now here is the big one as like the US, Australia relies on revenue from taxes paid by US to provide services. Now here it is

      One Steel - Announced 1.000 jobs were going

      BlueScope Steel - The company Labor used to show the carbon tax is good as they have purchased another business is examine their operations to make them more efficient to compete in the current environment. They are also looking at axing jobs.

      APC - Announced it is closing a plant and will lead to about 200 - 300 job loses.

      ANZ - Moving jobs overseas and closing call centres and in Australia.

      Westpac, Comm Bank - Same as ANZ.

      QANTAS - Announced job losses of about 1,000 in Australia.

      Small business has seen a mass reduction in spending as ppl start to save more. This will lead to more job losses in the future as they cut jobs to save on cost.

      China - Our biggest trading partner in resources. China is highly volatile to what happens in the US as it hold 1 trillion in bonds and also is China’s biggest trading partner making up a huge amount of the actual revenue received by China. China itself has large fiscal problems with huge amounts unsecured loans and also trillion in housing developments that have been built but have no one living in them.

      Also Farr forget to mention that a report in US recently actually has cruised Keynesian. The report outlined that by just throwing money at people to try to get them spending and this money comes from borrowed money has led to the world economy been in a volatile position. Just for you Farr. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ionYZZ3c5-A

      Has anyone from my reading noticed that what happened in the US is happening now? The govt now wants to put a carbon tax on business that will increase the costs for that business. What do you think will happen? Companies that can’t afford this increase will close their doors and move over ease which will lead to an increase in unemployment. At the moment labor is living way beyond its means and if the carbon tax is one of neutral that is the cost incurred is outweighed but the income received. So if that is the case what will replace the income lost from taxes as ppl find them unemployed which will result in fewer taxes?

      Now let’s look at MRRT is this not an attack on sovereign risk of mining companies. It is Farr and you know it but hey this one policy I agree with but one thing I don’t agree with is this govt reliance on the continuance of high prices and resource sales to prop their revenue stream and to continue spending.

      The labor govt came in with a 40 billion in the coffers and now we owe 170+ billion debts. Yes a debt, we owe someone money.

    • Sniper says:

      04:33pm | 17/08/11

      John the Zombie - That’s a pretty pessimistic view you’ve got going there John!

      All that space and time when you could have just said….Australia’s F*cked.

      I Reckon you’d be fun at a party John!

    • More morons in mackay says:

      08:43pm | 17/08/11

      Johns, probably from overseas.

    • More morons in mackay says:

      08:45pm | 17/08/11

      Johns, probably from overseas.

    • John the Zombie says:

      12:21am | 18/08/11

      Actually I am but I have lived here for most my life.

    • billy says:

      01:52pm | 17/08/11

      Anyone who live in Australia have basically won the lotto. Low unemployment, Low inflation, very small debt and no body in Australia should go without a meal tonight. Have you seen how difficult it is overseas.

      We should thank god we live in a country such as Aust.

      However if you listen to the 2GB shock Jocks and Abbott you would think our economy is ready to colapse.

    • john says:

      02:13pm | 17/08/11

      @billy…“However if you listen to the 2GB shock Jocks and Abbott you would think our economy is ready to colapse. “

      Only a fool would believe it hasn’t already - unless you have been inoculated working for a mining company.

      I’m entertained how we go on pretending it hasn’t, reminds me of the emperor Nero watching rome burn.

    • Tony H says:

      03:49pm | 17/08/11

      The “low unemployment” is achieved by only counting the 625,000 on the dole (newstart / jobstart allowance). There are another 800,000 people on disability benefits

      The disability benefit pays more than what is paid on the regular dole so there is an awful lot of people with “psychological problems” (lazyness) or with crippling back injuries who seem to be able to mow their lawns, change tyres, paint houses and clean out their gutters without an issue.

      The real unemployment rate is double what the government quotes.

    • PTom says:

      09:48pm | 17/08/11

      Tony H,
      newstart / jobstart/disability allowance have nothing to do with the ABS unemployment survey figure.

    • Soames says:

      02:19pm | 17/08/11

      Is it a good thing if people are keeping their dough under the mattress, and paying off their credit cards? NO!. How dare you!  How the hell can the capitalist economy work, if people are actually saving money, spending wisely,  paying off debt, so they wont be burdened for years into the future?  Simple. It’s the banks, and credit. It’s what’s keeping them in business, (other than global and merchant investment), particularly mortgage credit, on the oversized house, predetermined by the debtor, you, on how many brats will be bought into this world, and often inclusively of the other oversized necessity, the 2 ton 4WD, needed to protect the aforementioned brats, on their way to and from school, including parking fines.  It’s how the world works in western capitalist economy countries.  Some might choose to ignore the high value of the $AU, in turn impacting on some small business going offshore, where it can source materials/manufacture at lower labour cost, resulting in local jobs layoff. This not a result of any “carbon tax”.  Electricity prices are always on the up. It’s not the fault of any government, it’s a price needed by electricity distributors, to enable growth of distribution networks, long time neglected, and in accordance with population increases.The real increases in electricity prices will come, if power generators are allowed to pollute the atmosphere without incentive penalties to switch to alternitive sources other than coal, over a transitional period to say,  gas fired power stations. They WILL come, make no mistake. Meanwhile, do yourself a favour, stop worrying about so-called crystal balls. They’re all fake crystal.

    • Andy D says:

      02:37pm | 17/08/11

      When I hear Malcolm Farr on the radio I always wonder why he “ums” and “ahs” so much but I have realised, it’s because he is waiting for the Labor Party advisor to tell him what to say next.

    • Cynical says:

      05:09pm | 17/08/11

      Farr “ums” and “ahs” far less than Abbott does.  Abbott doesn’t wait to be told what to say next he just flaps his gums without regard for the truth.

    • More morons in mackay says:

      08:38pm | 17/08/11

      Andy.

      I think you’re mixing up Mals “ums” and “ahs” for your “dumbs” and “dahs”

    • James Hunter says:

      03:04pm | 17/08/11

      For those above who say a congestion tax is on the way. Get real congestion taxes atre matters for states not federal.
      So please stop mouthing rubbish that Abbott spews forth.
      There are anough Libetral stooges on site like this to (almost ) stop one reading them.
      Argue with facts and thoughtfull conjecture, not liberal platitudes.
      The day must come when people understand that the days of constant growth and ever increasing profits in the capitalists /bigbusiness model is broken and the world willl have to have a rethink.
      Maybe start by enforcing population controll in the horn of africa. and use a few of the usa and russias thousands of nukes to put a quick stop to some of the other wealth and resource drainage sores on the world.
      Meantine let Julia do her job we have a democracy just that every man and his dog want to have the rule of the squeeky wheel.
      Rubbish.

    • John the Zombie says:

      04:42pm | 17/08/11

      James Hunter I hope you realise on the NBN there is also a mass ripp off for users. The NBN is covering what looks like a tax on the downloads.

      Mr Hackett singled-out for particular criticism in his blog the NBN Co’s plan to use 121 points of interconnect (PoIs) and its fixed charging for concentrating virtual circuits (CVCs).

      “The ‘CVC’ is an arbitrary $20 per megabit per month fee in the NBNCo wholesale model, charged at the point where retail service providers (RSPs) physically connect to the NBN in a Point of Interconnect (POI).


      They are charging th ISP servers $20 per megabyte fee. Basically taxing the dwonloads you do.

      Also James I ask you to read the Australain Constitution and you will find the federal govt can actaully put thier fingers into state matters.

    • Peter Wickham says:

      03:15pm | 17/08/11

      I must have been hiding behind the door when THEY explained about the Carbon Tax. What is it for again? (apart from some dubious theory about the sky is falling) How is it calculated? Who pays it? and (most poignantly) where does it go? Does our government have some clever scheme to stop this Global Warming thing with moneys generated through a Carbon Tax? Tax on alcohol is supposed to go toward alcohol education programs. Road Tax is supposed to go towards improving our roads. Where does this one go? And why oh why is there nobody on TV explaining all this? So far it sounds like Weapons of Mass Destruction all over again.

    • JohnB says:

      04:10pm | 17/08/11

      It’s a Labor scam Peter Wickham. It has nothing to do with the environment. When Abbott said he’d repeal the tax when he wins government, Gillard didn’t say that’d be devastating to the environment, no, she said that’d be a huge loss of revenue…

      A lot of the money is going to the UN to spend overseas, the rest is being taken from middle income earners (workers) and being transferred to low income earners (welfare recipients)...Typical Labor socialist policy.

    • Rick says:

      04:06pm | 17/08/11

      Yes Peter and we Know who told the Weapons of mass destruction Lie.
      Dont worry we were in for global warming but the nuclear winter will save us.

    • Jay Santos says:

      04:39pm | 17/08/11

      “...we Know who told the Weapons of mass destruction Lie…”

      Indeed we do…it was Kevin Rudd.

      Let’s go to the transcript:

      LAURIE OAKES: In a speech in October 2002, you said, “Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. This is a matter of ...

      KEVIN RUDD: That’s right.

      LAURIE OAKES: ” ... empirical fact. If you don’t believe the intelligence ...

      KEVIN RUDD: Based on government intelligence documents.

      LAURIE OAKES: ” ... assessments, you simply read the most recent bulletins from the Federation of American Scientists, which lists Iraq among the number of states in possession of chemical and biological weapons with the capacity to develop nuclear weapons.”

      KEVIN RUDD: Sure.

      LAURIE OAKES: Now you pushed it as hard as John Howard. Should you apologise?

      KEVIN RUDD: Well the key question there, Laurie, is that I was not responsible for taking this country to war.

      LAURIE OAKES: No. But you ...

      KEVIN RUDD: But hang on, Laurie.

      LAURIE OAKES: ... said it. Will you apologise?

      KEVIN RUDD: The Government said - absolutely not, because the Government took this country to war. What we said as the alternative government was that the case for going to war was not sufficiently strong to defy the opinion ...

      LAURIE OAKES: You helped to make the case.

      KEVIN RUDD: ... of the United Nations Security Council.

      Sorry, I’ve forgotten the point you were trying to make?

      Was there one?

    • Shooter says:

      04:38pm | 17/08/11

      A lot of people forget that one of the reasons the Howard Government were in surplus was due to wholesale asset liquidation and letting infrastructure to rot

    • Steve says:

      01:06pm | 18/08/11

      It is time to put that myth to rest. I suggest you look up the Jackson audit report of infastructure.

      You will find that infastructure spending increased over the 80’s/90’s average under Howard. That is actual Govt expenditure and does not include private infastructure built through the proceeds of asset sales.

      The report also reveals that 20 of the 32 major road/rail projects that ALP take credit for where commenced or substantially completed during the Howard Govt.  One project was actually completyed before Labor took office but that still didn’t stop Anthony Albanese taking credit for it.

      Finishing projects that were commenced by Howard is no great achievement. The projects were substantiallly under way and the money was in the bank with a $20 billion dollars surplus. Anthony Albanese only had to write the cheques.

      If you take those 20 projects off ALP achievements and put them on the Howard list you will have a very different picture.

      The audit was also scathing in the fact that only 14% of the stimulas was spent on infastucture and saw it as a wasted opportunity. Most of the 14% was dubious in any case because it was school halls etc which does not contribute to productivity gains.

      Unless infastructure is iconic (NBN, snowy river, ord river) or in your local area no body remembers it or who actually built it.

      The ALP has taken advantage of this and spun a myth that the coalition let infastyructure lapse when it is not true. this is without cutting the coalition some slack for paying off debt that they inherited from ALP.

    • Martin says:

      02:25pm | 18/08/11

      @Shooter, what absolute garbage.

    • Amused says:

      10:12pm | 17/08/11

      Given that what is essentially one and a half bridges, two sets of traffic lights and a bus stop being built near my house is costing almost 500 million dollars, finding 70 billion being wasted isn’t going to be as hard as you think, Malcolm.

    • Concerned says:

      09:11am | 23/08/11

      Why do the llibs have to find $70 billion to have a credible economic policy whilst Swan just has to keep things rolling (of which he inherited from Costello). I used to love it when Costello teased Swan for having no credibility due to not have having any economic nous - get rid of labour and particularly those idiots Shorten and Thompson

 

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