In a speech last month, our outspoken Treasury Secretary Ken Henry referred to the hitherto unknown but enticingly-titled “Treasury well being framework” as a measure of determining what is best for families and working parents.

Some people have an old-fashioned view of what it means to stay home with the kids.

Wow ! After years as the ultimate BBQ stopper-conversation, maybe the esteemed boffins at Treasury stumbled upon the elusive answer to the work/life balance question?

I looked forward to reading the magic formula and seeing how I measured up.

Unfortunately, Mr Henry didn’t spell out what the “well being framework” was, but he was very reassuring that Treasury actually had one.  By way of explanation he suggested that the participation of parents in the paid workforce was a significant measure of “well being”.

I think that’s pretty much a given. There’s no doubt that there is significant disadvantage associated with families in which there is no wage-earner – whether they be single or couple parents.  One of the stark statistics in a recent ABS Report was that there is no wage earner in around 11% of Australian families.

Economic independence is undoubtedly an important measure of well being for any family. That’s why a strong economy with plenty of job opportunities is a crucial part of good social policy.

However, in developing his argument Mr Henry revealed perhaps the true nature of Treasury’s “well being” calculations.

He went on to suggest that, once children are of school age, the optimal situation for couple families would be for both parents to be working and for “government benefits” to cease at that stage. The implication was especially those benefits that in any way help or assist one parent being a full-time carer.

The Daily Telegraph’s interpretation of Mr Henry’s speech was quite telling, with the headline screaming “Treasury to get tough on bludging soccer Mums”.

Yes, those parents who take on the role of caring for their children scored the title “bludger”.  If you’re not in the paid workforce 9 to 5, and you have the time to take your kids to soccer practice, hey – lift your game, you’re failing Treasury’s “wellbeing” index.

This sort of characterisation of couple families who make the personal financial sacrifice in order to have one partner care for their children is as demeaning as it is wrong.

Let’s look at the recent ABS Report “Work, Life and Family Balance” to get a true picture of the labour force participation of parents.

Of all families with children, 81% are couple families.  Of these couple families, 62% have both parents employed, 33.5% have one parent employed, and 4% have neither parent employed.  Of the 62% with both parents employed only 34% have both employed full-time, while 61% have one-parent full-time and one parent part-time.

The bottom line is that, while the popular culture image of both parents racing off to full-time work is considered a modern-day norm – only 21% of all Australian couple families chose this work arrangement.  79% don’t.

This is reflected in the fact that only 22% of children under 12 attend any sort of formal childcare – and the majority do so for less than 20 hours a week.

There is one thing at the heart of the choices parents make when trying to find the right work/life balance for their particular family - their children.

I don’t know where the happiness, well being and needs of children sit in Treasury’s “‘well being framework”, but they are pretty high up the order for parents in determining their own personal family well being index.

And before I once again get the usual detractors claiming I want to drag the women’s movement back to the dark ages, can I just say I’m in no way criticising the choice of women who want to work full-time and who can successfully raise a happy family while doing so.  I applaud and congratulate them.

In fact, facilitating women’s working lives should be an absolute priority.

But the only way we will achieve better workplace flexibility for women is to acknowledge that many women will, for some period of time in their working lives, chose to take time out of the paid workforce, or to work part-time hours, in order to take on care responsibilities.  This should be accepted, and recognised as beneficial to our society – not belittled.

The reality is that very, very few women in modern society will make a decision to withdraw from the workforce permanently.  It just doesn’t happen.

Women are more educated than ever before and their working lives are very important to them. 28% of all Generation X and Y women have a Bachelor degree or higher, compared to 21% of men in these age groups.

We are already seeing a trend where more men are making the choice to take on care responsibilities and using flexible workplace arrangements in order to do so.  And it’s highly likely that in couple families in the future, it will be the woman taking on primary wage-earner status and the man taking on a greater share of care responsibilities and part-time work.

Whatever the choices parents make, there shouldn’t be a stigma attached to caring for ones own children for a period of time (and as every parent knows, they’re only little for such a short time).

Acknowledging that the vast majority of children thrive when they are primarily cared for by a loving, engaged parent, doesn’t mean an implied criticism or guilt trip for those parents whose children attend childcare.  It’s just a recognition of reality.

The Government and community should also recognise the social capital that so-called “soccer mums” contribute in our schools, sporting groups, communities and other areas of the voluntary sector.

If we withdraw those “working mums” the community is going to suffer, just as surely as the economy would suffer from the withdrawal of paid working mums.

We must do more to help those families who are economically disadvantaged and especially single-parent families who face greater challenges in treading the tightrope of work/family balance.

I’d expect that Treasury Secretary Ken Henry and his team will more clearly articulate what constitutes their “well being framework” and come up with some innovative ideas to help all families in their Tax Review.

If Treasury is to ultimately take this foray into social policy and be an arbiter of family “well being”, I hope that Mr Henry will do more than simply imply that two working parents means happy families. Many Australian families would beg to differ.

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35 comments

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    • Kate says:

      06:06am | 19/10/09

      It seems this argument will never cease. I’m a mother to two children under seven and yes I work full time (and study). I have been on both sides of this well debated argument, staying at home for five years. People do what they have to, it’s time we started to appreciate that. Some women choose to work, some work as they are not afforded the luxury of choice. I fall into the former and often find I am subject to judgment from a generation where woman stayed at home, because society offered limited opportunity outside the home. I look at my mother who was an exceptional example of this, raising six children, however now as an empty nester and just 60, is a little lost (apart from granparent duties we bestow on her). Yes it’s a challenge trying to ‘do it all’ but it has been a choice my husband and I made for our famiy,  and I don’t believe our children are worse off, because of this.
      Times have changed and attitudes need to change with it, not only is it time we cease throwing around unsubstantiated opinions, we need to embrace the ‘soccer mums’ who in essence are doing our working mums job, and embrace the women who are in the paid workforce (all mums are ‘working mums’) lets appreciate where everyone is at, by choice or circumstance.

    • J Bullocks says:

      07:06am | 19/10/09

      Your article was unwittingly sexist.

      I’m a stay at home dad. My wife wears the “paid work” pants. Thankfully, I’ve got enough conjones to handle the ubiquitous slights, put-downs and down-right sexist attitudes of modern Australian society.

    • bec says:

      07:12am | 19/10/09

      Sophie, I must ask: what did you do to make it culturally and financially possible for men to stay home with their children if it was practical and the best option when the Coalition were in power? I really want to know. Would it not be more feasible to offer new avenues for paternity leave rather than leaving the prospect of losing career advancement or being called “a bad mother” only for women?

    • Warren says:

      07:24am | 19/10/09

      This article seems mainly to be having a shot at the Daily Telegraph for its description of stay at home parents as bludging soccer-mums.

      Dr Henry’s statements that getting a second parent into work (he doesn’t specify full or part time) is better for the family and for the country, is singing right off the Liberal Hymn sheet. That is exactly what the Welfare to Work changes were about.

      However, those changes were just for mums on welfare, these changes look like reducing the benefits fo wealthy families in having one of the two people at home looking after kids. Partnered mums lose welfare when the youngest hits 6 and single parents when the youngest turns 9.

      It is pretty transperant that the Libs main objection to these changes isnt that it is forcing mums back into the workforce - the Libs already did that - it is forcing middle-class and wealthy mums back into the workforce.

    • Helen says:

      07:26am | 19/10/09

      Hey, I have a great idea - why don’t *you* stay home instead of working, Sophie?

    • Dalma Smithy says:

      07:42am | 19/10/09

      After reading the buzz on soccer mothers,my ire raised 10 degrees ! I have a litany of rebuttals, having run through the mill. For too long fems of all ages have treated the welfare system like some propup for their credit failures, lovelife, and last fiscal resort. Working mums, who enrol in part time courses at Uni are noted for their claim to mature student welfare, even though the idea originally was to get one over the hump of part time work. I know of umteen cases where people who wont work enrol just to qualify for the Govt largesse, never complete their courses, and worst never pay back the grant in their lifetime ! Researches in the ABS should trial a study into how many mature aged student complete their degrees, and ever pay back their expenses ! Woow. Another issue is the child care allowance, and the kindy allowance, where again, they take full advantage of a system whereby, no checks are made, and everybody know its a rort. Stay at home mums firmly believe it’s their right to welfare, not a facility for genuine, needy impoverished down-an-outers. As a tax payer in the higher range, working many hours of unpaid overtime, and coming home late every night to prepare dinner for the family etc, it makes my blood boil, while these ’ bludgers’ use my labour to sit home, watch the soapys, and complain they are not getting enough ?
      Wakeup girls !

    • Bernie says:

      07:50am | 19/10/09

      When is the world going to stop looking for reasons to insult and demean mothers?  We are wrong if we work as our children will be psychologically damaged at being handed out to childcare centres and we are wrong if we don’t work because we are seen as bludgers.

      Isn’t it time we thanked mothers for creating our future generations, for caring for them, nurturing, leading and educating them, for their sacrifice of time, sleep and money?  Motherhood is not an easy job, I certainly found it easier going to the office every day, but my children appreciate mum being here.  My eldest son was abused in a childcare centre when I worked on short project, it has left him seriously damaged and me feeling eternally guilty. 

      A head teacher recently told me that they have our children for only 6 hours a day, we have them for the remaining 18 hours so the parents should do most of the teaching.  If we also have to work 8-10 hours per day and the children have to eat, bathe and sleep (sleeping for 10+ hours) - when do we fit this in?

      Stop putting down mothers!  Without us the men who write most of this crap would be in a serious dilemma as they would have to pay for daycare or out of school care ($100 min per day for my two children - not tax deductable), which would take a huge chunk out of your budget.

      After a very succesful career I took 5 years out to raise two boys, I still worked the odd part time project, but find it impossible to get work between school hours. It is especially difficult to find work to fit into the school holiday programme.  Yes we have to consider this, as the out of school care programme costs between $100 and $160 per day during holidays and $100 per day otherwise for two children.  It is not tax deductable. I cannot currently earn this money working part time between school hours.

      So, when the press looks to write demean motherhood, perhaps they should look at the whole picture.

      I wrote to Koshie on breakfast TV a while ago as they were saying Oz is seriously lacking in skilled workers and they thought we needed to bring in more overseas workers.  I know a huge number of women in our neighbourhood who are highly skilled but will never be considered to return to the workforce because their status as mothers of young children is classed as a ‘disablement’.  It should be made law that workforces offer school hours work for a number of employees.

      Please give us a break!  I don’t know a single bludging soccer mum - do you?

    • Fred says:

      07:58am | 19/10/09

      It would be a shame to let the facts get in the way of a good spray.
      Perhaps you should have checked how long the “Treasury well being framework” has been around. You may find that its been around for almost as long as you’ve been in Parliament ...

    • notsomadboy says:

      08:33am | 19/10/09

      Fundamentally it is your choice to be a stay at home mother (or father) and you choose all the finacial ramifications that go with living on only one income.

      The Government should not then pay you to make that choice. Welfare for working families is a joke. If you can’t afford to live on only one income then get a job!

    • Kate says:

      09:49am | 19/10/09

      To Dalma Smithy…..I’m confused, is it stay at home mums/dads taking the financial load off the govt, those studying at uni, improving the workforce pool, or society as a whole that your having a pot shot at? While there are always exceptions to the rule, I think you should be careful in your spray at part timers at uni for starters. Yes there are are those who rort the system as you infer,however many I have come across at uni over the past 6 years are in the same boat as me are doing the hard yards, with a family and work commitments, men and women. None of us as mature age students recieve any incentive to do so except a large HECS debt that takes a decent chunk out of the weekly pay, and an often disgruntled partner and children we wish we could see more of! Yes we choose to take this road, to hopefully better ourselves and provide a better future for our children, and society by giving to the tax man, rather than taking from the govt!
      Oh and by the way if you want some stats of how many in my position actually finish their course, try this on for size, in my course alone the completed undergrad figures have a staggering success rate of 95%!! Credit where credit’s due, it’s people like you that make my blood boil!! Stop having a go at people, when you don’t know their situation!!

    • stay at home mum says:

      09:58am | 19/10/09

      What percentage of stay of home mums are Welfare mums??? I am a stay at home mum, I have a uni degree, masters and spent 15 years in the workplace. I know I am lucky enough to be able to now not work. We don’t get any hand outs, nor do we need them. But I am sick of this generalisation that I am a dole bludger and dumb. Spending the last 5 working years as a Financial Controller of a large company, motherhood is ten times harder than any job has ever been. And all my stay at home mum friends are also from the same proffessional background. So why don’t we get applauded for making the sacrifice to raise our children ourselves??  Why can’t woman stop attacking each other. I spend most of my afternoons picking up working mums kids from sport and minding them till they get home. Yet we get attacked for watching soaps all day?? WTF. get over yoruself woman. Motherhood is the hardest yet the most rewarding job in the world. And no “paid’ job will ever replace the reward I get from knowing I am raising good happy children.

    • Chris says:

      10:04am | 19/10/09

      Well said Sophie. Society could be alot better place with more stay at home mums. These women desrve alot more respect.
      Ken Henry just loves the limelight. I cant think of any Treasury secretary the past that loves the attention as much as Henry. I am worried about the man, his ego and his tax review.

    • Sandra says:

      10:33am | 19/10/09

      “Motherhood is the hardest yet the most rewarding job in the world”

      Thank you. Since motherhood is so rewarding, then do stay-at-home-mums—SAHMs—do not “deserve” cash handouts for doing it.
      It is telling that there was so much applause and adulation for policies that imposed a so-called mutual obligation on those welfare recipients who were the most disadvantaged and oppressed; indigenous Australians, single parents and the long-term unemployed yet there is a pious sense of entitlement from the middle-class child-makers who demand a plethora of cash handouts without any similar mean-test nor any burden of proof of need.  No “mummy diary” for SAHMs. Under the Howard government, single parents’ welfare (mostly mothers) was withdrawn when the youngest child reached school age yet married non-working spouses can claim Fam Tax B until the youngest child is 18. Say hello to crass social engineering.  It is revealingly hypocrtical that the lobbyists who demand that SAHMs ought to be remunerated for doing what is really Life 101 then baulk at the idea of paying a livable wage to a (usually female) pink-collar worker in a child-care centre. Class warfare much?

      The only “justification” for middle-class welfare is that modern parents seem to want a zero-sum financial impact on their post-natal lives and someone, anyone but them, must pick up the tab.

      A withdrawl of child-related middle-classs welfare will not leave children starving in the streets but some kiddies may be deprived of attaining the schoolyard status because Doctor Mummy and Lawyer Daddy cannot buy Junior an I-Pod.

      I am all for assisting the needy and I have no objection to assisting the imporverished because little children —or anyone—ought not to live in abject poverty but using taxpayers’ money to maintain the child-making middle-classes’ desire to maintain their pre-natal DINK lifestyle is repugant and morally reprehensible.

      @ Stay at home mum: the motherhood hardest job? Yeah, the leader of the free world has nothing on you. Knock off the hyperbole and perhaps there may be less derision for homemakers.

    • judgemenot says:

      10:42am | 19/10/09

      Yeah, I’m a bludger. Just got back from (volunteer) working with other people’s children who have literacy problems. Later I’ll assist the overwhelmed and under paid kinder teacher with…other peoples children! And I don’t mind doing it because I presume that once I return to work there will be another mother/father who may step in and give their time to helping my child. Oh, and as most stay at home ‘bludgers’ would attest, our homes are very,very popular come school holiday time compared to the holiday program costing $60 + per day. If there is one. Dalma Smithy, I don’t know what you’re on about with your claims of ‘childcare allowance rorts’, since women who are not in PAID work or undertaking study receive a maximum of 24 hours PER WEEK in child care subsidy, compared to 50 hours subsidised for women earning a wage. Notsomadboy, I notice your spray is directed at families who ‘choose’ to have only one income earner who ‘get welfare’....the working mummies are getting welfare too, via childcare subsidy and rebates. Why should they, it’s their CHOICE to work-( following your logic), surely it’s their problem what they do with their kids during work time, why should anyone subsidise their CHOICE?

    • Kj says:

      10:54am | 19/10/09

      Sandra. The Leader of the free world (if by which we mean President Obama) has 6722 people working for him. Not including household staff who cook his meals, clean his house, and drive him around. He also get’s paid for his position and gets to take holidays. Are you even a mother???

    • Joe says:

      12:07pm | 19/10/09

      notsomadboy says: “Fundamentally it is your choice to be a stay at home mother (or father) and you choose all the finacial (sic) ramifications that go with living on only one income. The Government should not then pay you to make that choice. “

      So why does the government pay big subsidies for childcare if the parents both choose to go to work and get someone else to look after your children? If they shouldn’t pay people who stay at home, then surely they shouldn’t pay those who choose to go to work?. I think this it half the issue here, the balance.

    • SJ says:

      12:29pm | 19/10/09

      @ Sandra: I totally agree. I’m not coughing up even more money in taxes so a suburban middle-class couple who’ve decided they want to procreate but maintain their DINK lifestyle can do so without lifting a finger. I understand motherhood is difficult, but take a look back 50 years - you wanted kids then, you paid for it or else you had to cut back on the *non-essentials*.

      You want the plasma TV, five-extra-curricular-activities, Lexus 4WD lifestyle you can go out, get a job and pay for it.

      If you want to stay at home raising your children, that’s fine and i applaud you for doing so but don’t start acting like you need the money. You don’t need it, you want it and you expect others to pay for your decision to expand your family AND maintain a pre-children lifestyle.

    • Kim says:

      12:40pm | 19/10/09

      SJ, That is the problem. Why does everyone believe that Full Time Mums are getting money from the govt??. It’s a very BIG generalisation. My husand works hard and we downsized our house, and have 1 car, and no Plasma tv all so I can be a full time mum. All other “Full time mums” I know ,the same applies. We don’t sit around talking about what we can get off centrelink. Most times you will find, to be able to afford to be a stay at home mum your husband is probably earning some significant money to support it.  Thus, rightfully so, not be eligible for any benefits. So before you all start going on about “middle class” welfare, why don’t you get some concrete evidence that ALL stay at home (or even the majority) of Mothers are doing so at the expenses of tax payers!!!!!

    • Kylz 74 says:

      12:42pm | 19/10/09

      On my 28th Birthday I rang work to say that I wasn’t coming in because I had just given birth.
      What I had no idea about that day, was what an impact giving up work to raise a family would have on me.  I have both worked and have been a sahm and I know which one is more challenging for me.  What people have to realise is that we are all unique individuals and we all have different challenges and reasons for doing things. What women need to do is learn to respect eachother.

      I went back to work for a disability service when my son was 6 months old. My parents cared for him for one day and my inlaws the other.  I would also go home at lunch to breastfeed.  This arrangement worked really well until he was 2 when we had our 2nd child and I decided to be a stay at home mum.  I am privileged to have a husband who earns a good income so I can stay home. However one reason why I dont work is because we would actually loose money in childcare.  My basic income would not cover childcare costs. 

      I believe sahm are one of the most undervalued groups of women.  Sometimes I will go to a social function and will be the only sahm and it is somewhat of a novelty for some people. I often feel unappreciated and physcially and emotionally exhausted.  Life with 3 active and curious kids is non-stop.  One reason my friends say they do work is becuase they find working is easier than staying at home.

      Although I am a sahm, sometimes i call myself a “hardly at home mother” because most of the time we are out either going to playgroup, swimming lessons, gymnastics, scouts, school, appointments and volunteer work. I have chosen to do volunteer work as my way to give back to the community. I started a Playground Action Group to improve our local playgrounds.  This has lead to many amazing opportunities, I get to keep my skills up and meet some interesting people.  I also have a small party plan business and many other community groups.

      Some people think that sahm just stay home all day watching Dr Phil and Oprah. I wish!!!  The only time I sit down and watch TV is when I’m folding the washing.  I really admire people who work and care for children.  I dont know how they do it.

    • papachango says:

      12:57pm | 19/10/09

      I agree. Labor is showing its ideological bias towards having mums rejoin the workforce. I’m assuming they consider it all nice and ‘progressive’ and having any mothers staying at home is a throwback to the ‘fifties, and that evil John Howard’s vision of the world.

      However, Sophie, while the ‘fifties tag was just hyperbole, it’s true that the previous government had a bit of a socially conservative ideological bias the other way. Why do governments need to take sides in the ‘mummy wars’ at all? Its up to each individual family to work out which circumstances suit them the best, and it is absolutely none of the government’s business. It’s also no business of anybody else, ‘progressive’ or otherwise, to pronounce judgement on other families’ choices.

      I’d prefer that no handouts were given to either group, but that we paid a whole lot less tax to start with.

    • Jarrod says:

      01:06pm | 19/10/09

      There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and statistics quoted by politicians.

      “The bottom line is that, while the popular culture image of both parents racing off to full-time work is considered a modern-day norm – only 21% of all Australian couple families chose this work arrangement… This is reflected in the fact that only 22% of children under 12 attend any sort of formal childcare”

      Any reason why you choose the age-range of “children under 12” when a substantial number of children of ages 10-12 are considered quite capable of transporting themselves from home to school (possibly along with younger siblings) and looking after themselves for an hour after school when their parents work full time?

      Please, meaningful discussion of the issue please!

      The simple fact is that Australia has a disgustingly high amount of middle-class welfare.  As a recipient of much of this (as a father of two), I can see quite plainly that this has to be wound back.  This is what Ken Henry is getting at.  This is what the Liberal party (which Ms Mirabella is a part of) are crying foul at.  This is what this article appears to be about under the guise of trying to set up a “poor me” image of people who have one partner work part-time (like my wife) or have a stay-at-home parent.  This is simply not the case in reality.

    • Razor says:

      01:26pm | 19/10/09

      Henry review take note - bring in income splitting.  That or a flat tax regime.

    • nkw says:

      01:31pm | 19/10/09

      @ Sandra 11:33am

      A mother who works receives more Child Care Rebate than mysel.  What was it you were saying about maintaining the pre-natal DINK lifestyle?

      Being a SAHM for the past 8 years (since the birth of my first child), the “cash handouts” I receive is approximately $5,000.00 per year - hardly enough to live the lifestyle pre-kids.  Wake up.

    • Heléna says:

      02:02pm | 19/10/09

      @Joe agreed - we have chosen for me to stay @ home this year - to do this we have tightened our budget and will be using savings - we will get a nominal FTB amount, which we will of course accept - seeing as it is being handed out wink however I’m not sure why anyone, working or not, should get any type of funding to raise children - it is after all their choice to do so

    • Kym Durance says:

      02:13pm | 19/10/09

      I am a bit with Woody Allen on this one - when it comes to raising children I adopt the “Whatever it takes appraoch”

      Ive been a stay at home dad, my wife has been a stay at home mum for a time - I have nothing to recommned either and am cautious when any one espouses the virtues of any form of chidrearing - I always get a sense of doom and run from a looming new form of orthodoxy -

      We spend more time debating about the right approach to looking after the little beggars than looking after them -  people farmed them off to wet nurses, to either swan around the estate or get back roght back to work, uncles aunts older siblings parent other kds as to creches and kindergartens.

      I take Sophies point treasury should single out one group ahead of another - parents wether stay at home or not need support - clearly some of the mean spirited -“not with my taxes” wingnuts disagree - but I love being taxed!! mmm! mmm!  -  we jump up and down about the need to invest so why not invest in the upbringing of the next generation - some one has to be there to bury the dead after all

    • Glen says:

      02:34pm | 19/10/09

      J Bullocks I’m right with you.  I’m a stay at home dad too.  I agree that the article was unwittingly sexist.  I too have to handle the ubiquitous slights, put-downs and down-right sexist attitudes of modern Australian society.  It is tiring but there throughout every tier of society.  The upside is that my children get the best care I can give.  By the way stop referring to soccer. I understand the use of the term but I can’t stand the game and it has nothing to do with anything in my life.  I find that even more insulting than your biased article.

    • DG says:

      03:31pm | 19/10/09

      Kim says (01:40pm | 19/10/09)-

      By electing to remain out of the workforce, yet using the publicly available services (such as roads, hospitals and the likes) you are causing others to pay more tax - If you had an income and paid tax you would be making a financial contribution to the provision of those services, since you do not, you are causing every other taxpayer to contribute more to fill the gap. Not only that, by having children you are increasing demand on the services that are provided by the taxpayer. Even if you don’t collect handouts your existence depends on various public infrastructure - Police, Fire, Ambulance, etc as above and your children increase demand.

      I’m not saying that I have a problem with it, you just asked for any evidence that stay at home mothers do so at the expense of taxpayers. Any person who elects to live in a community and does not pay tax for the upkeep of the community is a drain on taxes of that community and causes others to pay more tax. i.e a community of 500 people will have 10 police whether all 500 work or only 300. If 300 work (and pay taxes) each of those remaining 200 are a drain on the public purse because they are not personally contributing to the upkeep of those police. Welcome to capitalism.

      This is why both side of the government want you to work - you earn an income and pay tax, you also employ someone to look after your children, and THEY pay tax. If you leave the workforce to look after your own children the Government loses two sources of income.

    • Kim says:

      04:22pm | 19/10/09

      DG. Ok I undertstand your argument. However i am a consumer, so pay my fair share of GST, also a house owner so pay rates. Our household income (thanks to my husband, and yes I am lucky) is probably higher than 2 parents working. So as a household, we have paid our way. We don’t get benefits, nor should we. My argument is with public perception that all SAHM are on benefits, which just isn’t the case. Once your household earns over a certain amount of money you aren’t entitled to it, and rightly so. And in Sydney, it’s not hard to earn over the amount. So I don’t contribute in income tax, however my husband makes up for that. I do contribute, and would just like the generalisation that a SAHM is a bludger to stop.

    • Lumi says:

      05:03am | 20/10/09

      Well I’m a stay at home mum and have been for four years now. When my daughter turned 2.5 years old I thought it was time to go back to work. I had previously been employed for 13 years straight with the same employer and left with excellent references and a list of awards. Do you think I could find work in school hours only? No. You’d think a 9.30am - 2.30pm job wouldn’t be much to ask - it is. I went for full time work as well, the usual 9-5 though once you bring up you have a child you will notice your potential employer wants nothing more to do with you in most cases and the slim few that don’t mind have to do make the decision between a working mum and an employee without children. Which do you believe they mostly choose? I’ve had all manner of excuses from potential employers ranging from ‘working mothers spend most of their time taking leave to look after sick children’ to ‘working mums just don’t have the mindset to balance work and raising children’. I’ve heard it all. I tried very hard to get back into the work force for over six months with no luck and was left stuck raising a child on a pension where over half went on rent. It is a very hard life to live in my opinion and no there is no plasma tv in my home, no luxuries at all. There are a wealth of highly educated and/or experienced stay at home parents who want to work a 9.30 - 2.30 job (and 40 hour per week roles) though the is such a stigma attached to parents who want to work it’s almost impossible when you are competing with job seekers without children. I make do with odd jobs and selling second hand items online to get by these days while at the same time trying hard to work up my small business - I don’t just sit around watching tv. I’m definitely not a bludger though I’m treated as such.

      What I don’t agree with is the baby bonus and government funded maternity leave. Both should be treated like a HECS debt - it all should be paid back.  I also don’t see why anyone should get the baby bonus more than once. If you’re going to have children you should make damn sure you can afford to and be willing to pay back any help you receive from the government. If you want to be on the parenting pension you should be made to do a government approved study program after the first six months to continue payments.

      I never worried about stay at home parents on the pension prior to having a child myself and I still don’t have a real problem with it - things just need tightening up. My concern is the tens of thousands of actual dole bludgers who don’t have children that sit at the pub first thing and spend their allowance in the first day or two - and there are literally thousands that do just that. You want to save the government money? Clamp down on the bludgers on both sides, don’t complain about stay at home parents and make such general statements about their character. Frankly I don’t know one stay at home parent who just sits around watching tv - not to say there aren’t any who do just that. They, along with childless persons should be made to work for their pension money and show they actually need it on a regular basis - too many people just expect it and it creates a terrible cycle.

    • Brett says:

      07:45am | 20/10/09

      In my opinion the whole idea of encouraging both parents into the work force came about by banks. It became very popular in the 80’s just before the housing boom. Both parents working meant more income, which meant able to borrow more, which meant housing prices went up, which banks made more money on interest payments. We have been duped by banks and government.
      Now we have a society fixated on the shallow MacMansion lifetsyle where kids spend less time with their parents. Anytime there is a major social event just think for a moment who benefits the most from it, you can bet they also propagated it.

    • DG says:

      09:27am | 20/10/09

      Kim (05:22pm | 19/10/09) - Do you deny that a persons financial contribution to the community (i.e taxes) would be greater if that person worked?

      First there would be their income tax, then the GST paid in respect of the service provided by a Childcare facility, and the income tax paid by the person employed by the childcare facility. By Choosing to be out of the workforce a person takes all of that money out of the Government’s coffers.

      Secondly, the fact that a persons partner earns more than average does nothing to diminish the financial drain that the person imposes on the state. That persons prtner would be paying tax on that income whether or not they had a child, and since the partner is responsible for the child as well as the unemployed person they probably pays less tax than if the unemployed person was working.

      Not only that if the person was working the couple would have a greater disposable income and their GST contributions would reflect that (i.e increased purchases). So by choosing not to work, even before one considers the baby bonus and various other benefits that a person may or may not receive, a person places a significant tax “blackhole” that needs to be covered by other taxpayers.

      Again, I don’t have a problem with that - I’m simply outlining the political (and fiscal) imperative to get as many people into work as possible. Now I personally believe that stay at home parents do a crucial job - I think that there are positive social implications arising from those people who take a hands on approach to the up-bringing of their child (rather than outsourcing most of the care and protection of their child*). But it must also be acknowledged that any person who choose to leave the workforce creates a whole in government revenue.

      [I apologise, it’s been a while since High school maths and stats but I’m going to try and explain] It doesn’t sound like much, but if each new mother was paying 10k a year in tax (down to about 85% of the tax liability of the ’ Average production worker’ in 2004 to err on the safe side) and there are 285,000 births each year - (say 250k to account for twins and the likes) - that’s 2.5 billion (2.5 x 10^9) dollar hole in the economy and that doesn’t allow for persons that have more than one year out of the workforce. In year 2 the black hole would be twice that amount - and that’s JUST lost income tax - no GST, or any ‘benefits’.

      As I said, I don’t have a problem with stay at home parents- I wish I could be one (if I had a child) - But it is a substantial financial burden on the community at large. But that has to be weighed against the non-financial benefits which is comparing apples with oranges - so is highly subjective at best.

      * Since the child spends 10 or more hours asleep each day - there are 12-14 hours a day that the child needs protection. If a person is working a standard 7 hour day plus lunch and travel time, the person spends more than half of the child’s day away from the child.

    • DG says:

      09:46am | 20/10/09

      Lumi - Consider this: If you have a choice between a person who offers to work around their other priorities, and a person who offers to put work above their other interests - who would you employ? Who is more likely to be available if you happen to need them to stay back for a while, or to come in on the weekend, or stay until a job’s done?

      Or this- person goes out and says “My service is for sale - but I’ll only work on my terms, in the hours that I want” while competing with someone saying “I’m interested in the job. I’ll work the hours you want, on your terms”. It’s hardly surprising that the later is desirable to a potential employer.

      If a person is in an area that needs people on call, needs people to be able to work back regularly, juggles shifts or just has a ‘9-5’ position available - the person offering 9:30 - 2:30 is potentially leaving the employer understaffed in the morning and in the afternoon - I’m sure you appreciate that’s not desirable. In other areas, there may be some potential for example, I imagine demand at café‘s and the likes is rather high during those hours - with a lull after about 2:30 with the end of lunch. But in many area’s it may not be practical.

      I do not disagree that it is a problem. But that’s the reality of the choices we make - sometimes our choices close off other opportunities. Such is life. a few years ago I chose to have mortgage therefore I have to work to pay the bills, a few years on and my priorities have changed and I miss out on things that I would rather be doing (such as having a family).

    • SJ says:

      11:27am | 20/10/09

      Kim @ 1.40pm - I never said ALL stay-at-home mums sat around plotting how to rip off the government, nor did i say a MAJORITY did either.

      I’m simply saying that this is a user-pays society, and to a certain extent i feel this should cover raising a family as well. i totally support education subsidies, healthcare subsidies, childcare subsidies etc for children but what really gets me going is hearing the same “woe-become-me” whining from full-time parents who CHOSE that lifestyle.

      Perhaps full-time parents could save money by not dragging their kids to a shopping centre, wasting money on bi-weekly coffees/lunches with “the girls” while their kids run around screaming and tripping people over - or does this only happen at my local shopping centre?

    • Helen says:

      12:12pm | 20/10/09

      I am a bit with Woody Allen on this one - when it comes to raising children I adopt the “Whatever it takes appraoch”

      Ummm.. better not go there! O_o

    • jayne says:

      09:53pm | 03/02/10

      I have been trying to find a job for 2yrs with the socalled employment agency they are hopeless best to go yourself to look. I still havent a job. I am a single decent person and find it so hard financially I am 13,000 in debt as my children want to play sport(which costs a fortune),gas bills, electricity bills, so weeks we go with a couple of meals at night, and have something light and god help me when the schools want some more money for something at school , honestly it never ends, I wonder day by day how will I ever get out of this debt. I dont smoke or even go out and my stress level s are shot to pieces. Whoever puts down the single mother better get the specks out of their own eye first and I do everythi\ng for my children.and volunteer things for sporting groups and the school. Step into my shoes for a week or so and live off $540 aweek, 365 goes to just food let alone the other costs. It about time the government helped even more.

 

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