Poor old Wayne Swan! He may be the world’s best treasurer but he can’t get the big banks to be nice to consumers.

Time to throw the book away, Swanny. Illustration: Eric Lobbecke

It’s a bit like the world’s best dad asking a family member to behave or be nice to the other members of the household. And that’s the point. We have four big banks that, despite being valued members of society or the Australian “family,” are being self-centred and not very nice to consumers or the Australian household. 

We then have a federal Treasurer and PM who are supposed to be guardians of the Australian household or economy being ignored by the big banks. And that’s after the federal Treasurer has been so nice to the big banks.

Let’s not forget that Swan allowed the big banks to knock out the competition. It was Swan that approved the big banks acquiring St George and BankWest. It was Swan that stood by and let the big banks acquire or neutralise smaller competitors. It was Swan that was slow to move on any reform packages to ensure that the big banks were nice to the Australian household or economy.

Those with a keen memory will remember that Swan’s first so-called banking reform package was a fizzer and his second bank reform package was too little too late. By then the four big banks had well and truly become too big to fail. The big banks had become so profitable and so powerful that they could do what they want and be excused by a growing number of supporters and apologists.

Yes, the big banks have their critics but the free market theorists have been quick to run the media line that we should leave the banks alone. The free market theorists keep telling us we had no right to tell the big banks how they should behave.

No surprises from the free market theorists or other apologists for the big banks. They despise or dismiss government intervention unless, of course, there’s a global financial crisis and they all line up for government handouts, support and guarantees.

So free market theorists always seem to defend whatever the big banks do, with the theory being to let the big banks make record profits whenever they can and the practice being to expect the government to look after them when there’s a global financial crisis.

In those self serving circumstances it would not being surprising if the struggling members of the Australian family thought that there was some hypocrisy in the way the defenders of the big banks presented their arguments.

Now, obviously, any debate about the big banks is likely to stir up some emotions. No one should be surprised at the growing community anger given the banks are being so self-centred. More precisely, while the shareholders are reaping the benefits of record profits by the big banks year after year, the rest of the Australian household is doing it really tough.

While there can be no doubt that all Australians want strong and profitable banks, that’s a completely different situation to where all the big banks make record profits every year and the bank CEOs keep getting bigger and bigger remuneration packages.

Yes, record profits may occasionally be made by one or two players in a market because of superior management skills, but when all the big banks are making record profits every year there’s something more than “superior” management skills going on.

Here it’s the failure of competition to stop the yearly record profits. Effective competition would put pressure on the big banks and while allowing them to be profitable where they made the right commercial decisions. It’s clear that effective competition would prevent the big banks from being super profitable.

So it all comes down to the level of effective competition in a market. Here we are not talking about any type of “competition.” We had reckless competition in other parts of the world in the lead-up to the global financial crisis. In Australia we have been spared the dangers of reckless competition because of our strong prudential regulation of the banking sector.

Clearly, effective competition refers to the strongest level of genuine competition possible within our system of prudential regulation. It’s the intensity of the competition that’s critical and that depends on the number of effective competitors in the market. So the greater the number of effective competitors in a particular market the more intense the competition in that market and the better off consumers will be.

That’s why we need strong competition laws. At the moment our competition laws let through too many mergers and acquisitions which drastically reduce the level of effective competition in key markets. At one point the ACCC was approving around 97 per cent of mergers and acquisitions it considered. That meant that only very few mergers or acquisitions were being stopped by the ACCC.

While previously the ACCC was more inclined to approve as many mergers and acquisitions as possible, one can only hope that the new ACCC Chairman Rod Sims will not be so accommodating of big end of town players and their advisers when it comes to dealing with mergers and acquisitions.

Why is it important to have effective competition in the banking sector? Quite simply it’s because it leads to lower effective interest rates and it gives the Reserve Bank greater control over monetary policy.

A fundamental weapon in the fight against inflation or a weakening economy has always been control over Australia’s interest rate policy. And that’s formally been in the hands of the Reserve Bank and its board for some time.

The theory and practice in recent years has generally been that the Reserve Bank determined the direction of the official interest rate with a view to giving the economy a boost or applying the brake.

The problem is that if the big banks continue in their determination to set their interests separately from the official interest rate, then the ability of the Reserve Bank to effectively implement monetary policy is significantly weakened. That’s more bad news for Swan.

So Swan has every right to talk and act tough with the banks. After all he has given them so many free kicks that he would be right to think that big banks would return the favour by being nice to consumers, small businesses and the rest of the economy.

With the big banks now more about taking from than giving back to society they clearly need to be put in their place by Swan like any guardian would do to any selfish or disrespectful member of the family. Over to you Mr Swan. 

104 comments

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    • Craig says:

      05:04am | 15/02/12

      After the Prime Minister’s conduct and revelations in the last few weeks, why should any business listen to or trust this government?

      Swan is a nobody cowering behind a liar and cheat.

      And I am a Labor voter. Though not while Gllard is their ‘leader’.

    • Pete from Sydney says:

      07:12am | 15/02/12

      you’re a labour voter….And Hockey and Abbott would have done better over the past few years of calamitous financial news from Europe and America as well eh? I don’t think so.
      The misinformation that’s out there about the LNP’s prowess as financial wizards is incredible, they haven’t got a number right since the last election

    • Tator says:

      07:34am | 15/02/12

      Pete of Sydney,
      Neither has Swan, and he IS the Treasurer with Treasury support.

    • old fart says:

      08:10am | 15/02/12

      I remember the libs screaming in opposition about Australia owing $193 billion in 1996 thanks to Labor. When Howard got done in 2007 that figure was $544 billion.  So much for economic management.

    • Direct says:

      08:47am | 15/02/12

      I want Swanny to just come out and tell the truth; that the government has no control over interest rates or the banks or the RBA and thus no control over monetary policy; that no politician ever will have this control unless there are sweeping banking reforms. Who’d want sweeping banking reforms when the banks are delivering their shareholders (most people with superannuation) decent profits?

      Change won’t come just because people are whinging, so get with the winning team! Structure your finances so you pay as little tax as possible, buy bank shares and invest in ATM operators.

    • morrgo says:

      09:53am | 15/02/12

      Old fart needs to distinguish between government debt and household debt.  Howard left no Commonwealth government debt.

    • Jet says:

      10:10am | 15/02/12

      old fart - net debt was eliminated in 2005/06 which meant we no longer had net interest payments. These payments fell from 8.8 billion in 1996-97.

      The government debt to GDP ratio in 1996 was 29.1% compared to 9.8% in 2007.

      Your point is about economic management is?

    • DOB says:

      12:13pm | 15/02/12

      ZSRenn. Still cherrypicking misleadiong info I see. Try this page. Straight from the Australian Treasury. I refer you to chart 2 and chart 5. Check the dates there are the trend lines. See anything that doesnt match with your peculiar view of the world? Funny how the OFFICIAL stats dont seem to match the nonsense you type. Anyway, heres the link : http://treasury.gov.au/documents/1496/PDF/01_Debt.pdf

      ps whats next? Are you going to start citing the Young Liberal’s Economic Update webpage for useful(useless) support lines for your posts?

    • iMitchy says:

      04:25pm | 15/02/12

      @ZSRenn,

      This is all in response to old fart who said:
      “I remember the libs screaming in opposition about Australia owing $193 billion in 1996 thanks to Labor. When Howard got done in 2007 that figure was $544 billion.  So much for economic management.”

      How can political parties be responsible for private sector debt?

    • ZSRenn says:

      06:53pm | 15/02/12

      @imitchy Where did I say they were? I just wanted to know where old fart got his figures

    • iMitchy says:

      11:24am | 16/02/12

      @ZSRenn,

      You said: “I thought we were talking about private sector debt “

      old fart was blaming the government of the day for the increase in debt - “So much for economic management”.

      What would make you think that he is talking about private sector debt unless you think that the government is responsible for managing it?

    • Bill says:

      05:06am | 15/02/12

      Who needs the banks when your cash fits nicely under the mattress! smile

    • Sky says:

      08:09am | 15/02/12

      ive been doing it for years…...

    • RED says:

      09:28am | 15/02/12

      How’s that interest rate treating you?

    • Tchom says:

      10:21am | 15/02/12

      Did you hear about that pensioner who had been doing just that and got robbed the other day. She apparently had $300 000 stolen (none of it previously declared to Centre-link)

    • Dan Webster says:

      10:30am | 15/02/12

      @ Red - no account keeping fees, no ATM withdrawal fees, no over the counter charges, no waiting 1-2 days to clear funds.

      Interest rate ?!  - better places to park your cash if you want a return. Banks would have to be the worst for that…..

    • Anubis says:

      10:31am | 15/02/12

      @ Tchom - there was more to that one than meets the eye. The pensioner in question is going through divorce proceddings and a “friend” suggests she drain the bank accounts and hide the cash at home. An attempt to hide assetts from the family court so the soon to be ex-hubby would not get a fair share. So that case is an example of being greedy and having it come back to bite you.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      10:34am | 15/02/12

      @Tchom

      By her own family!

    • Jet says:

      10:51am | 15/02/12

      Did you hear the one about the old Israeli women who kept her cash ($1 million) in her mattress and didn’t tell her children. They thought it might be nice to surprise mum with a new bedroom suite and set the old one off to the rubbish tip.

    • Nathan says:

      05:10am | 15/02/12

      Seems as though its time that consumers tell the banks what they really think and take their business else where to those that offer much more competitive rates. The current or any government doesn’t act and words don’t cut it. What i don’t like is how the banks are blatantly colluding with each other but get away with it. Clearly they don’t want competition.

    • Little Joe says:

      07:05am | 15/02/12

      @ Nathan ..... over the past few years the Banks have been Labor’s best friends. Banks have increased interest rates in excess of the Reserve Bank which has checked inflation. This has allowed the RBA to maintain lower interest rates ...... though I still think that they are still way too high.

      The bank’s profits have also been a huge money generator for the Government. People fail to understand that while many small businesses have failed or driven to the ground, the Government collects approximately 30% of bank profits. This equates to BILLIONS of dollars in Australian Revenue.  Take that money out of the Treasury coffers and thing start looking very grim.

      The small rise in interest rates .... and they are small increases ..... were inevitable and I cannot see why people would be so ignorant to see them coming. After the Government cut loan severance fees, as well as other forms of revenue from banks, the banks really had no option to make up the shortfall in other ways. As I said .... INEVITABLE!!! Anyone who did not see this coming is simply ignorant!!!

      Swan is a bit of a hypocrite when he blames the banks for one aspect of the economy when they are helping in so many ways.

      In saying this I think that Banks are absolute fools for off-shoring work. All it does is provide a short term reduction in wages while there is a huge potential for a massive reduction of home loans and other economic forms of bank revenue.

    • Direct says:

      08:22am | 15/02/12

      Nathan, consumers are too stupid or lazy to take their business elsewhere.

    • Rocksteady says:

      08:38am | 15/02/12

      Nathan - Have you actually changed your accounts over to a competitor?  I reckon it’s you who is all talk and no action.
      Individuals choose to get themselves up to the eyeballs in debt, no one forced it on them and they deserve no sympathy or government intervention for making bad life decisions.
      If you can’t afford a few basis points then sell your house and stop complaining.
        90% of Australia owns bank shares indirectly, 36% of people have a mortgage. Have a cry somewhere else princess.

    • jf says:

      09:27am | 15/02/12

      Nathan says:06:10am | 15/02/12

      “What i don’t like is how the banks are blatantly colluding with each other but get away with it.”

      Collusion is illegal. If they are colluding then this is yet another thing that this government is failing to manage properly.

    • Noddy says:

      11:00am | 15/02/12

      And where are you going to go. We have four banks to choose from and they’re all the same. Save your petrol money and stay put.

    • Sherlock says:

      05:25am | 15/02/12

      If you don’t like the big banks then leave. It’s not that hard. I changed banks once it took me about two hours to re-organise some direct debits.

      Yet despite no shortage of alternatives over 85% of Australians bank with the big 4. So my question is do we really have a problem or are they just convenient targets for the Aussie tradition of having a huge whinge?

      You said that Swan allowed to banks to take over the competition however I’d suggest he had little choice in the matter. I said many times in the lead up to the GFC that these smaller lenders will flourish under these favourable conditions however when the tough times hit they will go under.

      That’s exactly what happened. The GFC hit and their unsustainable strategy of borrowing on the short term market to fund 30 year mortgages failed big time as the correction to credit risk margins hit hard.

      The banks didn’t so much as buy out the smaller lenders as much as they bailed them out and I would say that the government was not only behind them 100% but was very much relieved when the mergers went through.

      If our banks are so bad then why do so many Australians hold their accounts with them? When Keating opened up the banking market to the big foreigners why couldn’t they garner enough market share to be profitable and instead closed down?

      Is it possible that despite their flaws and the incessant Aussie whining that in reality they do a reasonably good job?  I have no real complaint about my bank and in fact for the service they offer me I think I get a fairly good deal. I certainly would never change to any of the smaller institutions.

      Yes bank profits are big numbers but they are also big companies and when you look at the profits in perspective they are not unreasonable.

    • AdamC says:

      08:48am | 15/02/12

      “Yet despite no shortage of alternatives over 85% of Australians bank with the big 4. So my question is do we really have a problem or are they just convenient targets for the Aussie tradition of having a huge whinge?”

      Sherlock, I would say there is a bit of both going on. Yes, the banking industry is an oligopoly, as it is in many places around the world. However, competition is quite vigorous in some segments, such as retail deposits. Unfortunately, home loans have become less so due to the retreat of non-bank lenders as their funding sources dried up. More generally, credit unions and building societies lack the extensive infrastructure (such as having ATMs and branches all over the country) possessed by the big 4. Banking is a scale business; that cannot be avoided.

      Also, and I don’t expect consumers to understand this, banks are now trying to adjust to a world in which they no longer foresee the cushy growth environment they enjoyed before. Hence they are focussing on their cost bases.

      Your comment is a good contribution to the debate.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      10:38am | 15/02/12

      @AdamC

      Agree with it all.

      The main problem people have is that the banks keep posting these massive profits yet say they are doing it tough and laying off people.

      Now you could understand them if say their profits were going backwards but not when CBA just post close to $4billion quarter profit.

      I try and explain to many people that when banks make money so does Australia - share prices go up, lending becomes easier. Last thing you want too happen is like the banking industry in America.

    • Trevor says:

      02:06pm | 15/02/12

      Simon

      “Last thing you want too happen is like the banking industry in America.”

      You would think that’s a no-brainer, however there are plenty of people on the other thread seemingly defending our move to a US style healthcare model!

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      02:21pm | 15/02/12

      @Trevor

      Such a great system to aspire to!

      For all its faults I’ll take Australia’s health system over America’s anytime.

    • Mouse says:

      03:22pm | 15/02/12

      SFL, don’t forget also that what profits banks make, the government gets their wedge as well. So the bigger the bank’s profit, the bigger the government’s wedge! This is one of the reasons why I laugh at this government saying, “walk down the road and change banks”. If the banks didn’t make these big profits, how much would the government be missing out on? :o)

    • Tyr says:

      05:35am | 15/02/12

      BankWest was finished. the Govt ASKED CBA to take them on. Check your facts, mate.

      Also, guess what, Swan has NO authority to tell the banks what to do. At all. Again, check your facts.

    • Nathan says:

      06:17am | 15/02/12

      Pretty sure he has a better understanding of the facts. Are you just going to ignore the St George bank example. The fact that he has no Authority was the point, they don’t listen to him.

    • Tyr says:

      06:42am | 15/02/12

      Totally different kettle of fish. St George weren’t about to collapse. I have a good insight as to what exactly happened at the time - my partner was senior management at CBA at the time.

      Re: Swan, what I meant was, he has no governance over their choices to adjust interest rates on their loans. No one listens to him anyways.

      If the big banks made a LOSS for a year, imagine the backlash against them from all the idiots now denouncing their profits.

      That’s the thing with public companies that alot of Australians dont understand. The Government cannot determine their policies or methods, if legal. Guns werent put to peoples heads to take on debt they couldnt repay comfortably - its the consumer that needs to determine how much they can afford to repay, not bitch that they now pay $50 a month more when the rate goes up 25 bp.

      The banks have responsibility to their shareholders to perform well and generate profits.

    • Nathan says:

      07:10am | 15/02/12

      @TYR
      Good point about the backlash if they didn’t perform. I agree with what you said about people bitching when interest rates move, that is up to them they should make sure they can make repayments and plan for Interest Rate rises, plan for the worst hope for the best.

    • TChong says:

      06:08am | 15/02/12

      I am looking forward to Punchs usual champions of the free market, (particularly in relation to the workplace, and social services)  demand that the guvmint “do something”
      An increase in govt. intervention, and regulation has my vote.
      It seems reliance on our captains of commerce is misguided.
      Capitalists cant be trusted to look after customers, or their workforce.

    • Bill says:

      06:41am | 15/02/12

      If ever we needed proof that the Chongster was completely deluded, here it is.

      Typical ALP hypocrite. Dreaming of socialism while enjoying the benefits of capitalism.

    • TChong says:

      07:53am | 15/02/12

      thats right Bill
      dreaming of socialism, and at your personal expense, in particular.
      And Bill, pensioners like you enjoy the benefits of socialism, in regards to pensions, public transport concession card and health- hypocrite much ?  wink

    • Rocksteady says:

      08:53am | 15/02/12

      It’s amazing how many people complain about the nanny state we live in, then as soon as their town floods / employer closes down/ bank raises interest rates, they complain the government isn’t helping enough or the handout isn’t big enough.
      I think it’s the same people who get all fired up about government debt while completely ignoring the fact that they have a $500k mortgage.

    • Space Ghost says:

      09:03am | 15/02/12

      What’s wrong with a few reasonable checks and balances Bill?

      I support capitalism but it’s ridiculous hypocrisy when conservatives scream about the government doing nothing on the one hand but when it suits will happily trot out the “free market will solve everything” bullshit on the other.

      Meanwhile free market does find a balance, usually one where the little guy gets screwed.

    • Stephen says:

      10:53am | 15/02/12

      I’m fairly conservative however I’d have to agree that the introduction of equitable systems to provide a balance in the current climate would be a good thing.  At present the system does provide benefits for anyone outside of the board and shareholders, customers and the community are major stakeholders and their rights should be respected and given appropriate protection.

    • AdamC says:

      11:05am | 15/02/12

      TChong, there is no demand for government intervention here.

      I envy the banks for being able to pass on their rising borrowing costs and maintain their profitability. (And, yes, banks’ borrowing costs are rising: just like you and I, they don’t do most of their borrowing at the RBA cash rate.) The rest of us have to cop rising costs on the chin.

      However, even if some central-planning interventionist government was minded to ‘do something’ about these supposedly rapacious and greedy banks of ours, what would they do? And, despite some people’s odd beliefs to the contrary, there is nothing stopping foreign banks from coming in and setting up shop.

    • Kipling says:

      06:11am | 15/02/12

      Wow, talk about not letting the facts or a “keen” yet selective memory get in the way of a good ol political rant….

    • Tubesteak says:

      06:16am | 15/02/12

      Banks are good to their shareholders and that’s the only people that matters. They’re a commercial institution designed for profit. They are not a socialist institution designed to give out money to all and sundry

      If you don’t like the big four banks there’s about 150 other lenders you can use. That’s more than enough effective competition. Problem is that the Australian consumer is too lazy and complacent to seek it out

      They don’t owe anything to you. Wayne Swan is not dad. We are not a family. They are not recalcitrant children

      Government response to the GFC was a result of incompetent government interference in the market. None of our banks got a bail out from the Australian government. The guarantee was for deposits and has existed for decades

    • Tyr says:

      06:44am | 15/02/12

      Thanks Tubesteak, someone else here has a basic grasp of how reality works!

      Great name, btw.

    • Tubesteak says:

      07:36am | 15/02/12

      Thanks, Tyr. I think your name is pretty cool, too. You must be a fan of sci-fi/fantasy.

    • Capitalism Rocks says:

      07:37am | 15/02/12

      Exactly. Corporate entities have one fundamental goal - maximise profits.

      Reigning them in is like telling a shark to use its conscience and go vegetarian - does not compute.

      And so what; don’t like it, take your business elsewhere. I am sick of whingers crying for government regulation because they are to damn lazy to look elsewhere.

    • Tyr says:

      07:58am | 15/02/12

      Close - Norse mythology!

    • Direct says:

      08:58am | 15/02/12

      Tubesteak, I can give you an example of where there is no competition in the banking sector.

      What institution can I bank with which will refuse to pass on ATM Direct charges to me for withdrawals of $50 or $100?

      It’s probably an unfair example given that the RBA is directly responsible for reducing competition in this case.

    • Tyr says:

      09:21am | 15/02/12

      Direct - to answer your question, any Credit Union.

    • marley says:

      10:47am | 15/02/12

      @Tubesteak - while I basically agree with what you’re saying, I was under the impression that Australia only got guarantees on bank deposits in 2008.  Not that I disagree with guarantee (though the $1 million guarantee was way over the top and distorted the market), but I’m fairly sure hearing that it was the first time bank deposits had been guaranteed here, and it was done to keep money from flowing to places where such guarantees were already in place, like the US, Canada and the UK..

    • Joe says:

      11:14am | 15/02/12

      They’re not pumping out ipads, they deal in cash. Stuff people depend on for everything. There shouldn’t even be shareholders of the banks, only customers. Money is not a product.

    • Tyr says:

      11:51am | 15/02/12

      Marley is correct. The guarantee was there to stop capital flight to overseas institutions. Banks like the big 4 rely on the size of their deposits and mortgages to obtain funding. Anyone who doesn’t understand, google overnight repo markets. All will become clear.

    • Tubesteak says:

      12:25pm | 15/02/12

      marley
      No way. The deposit guarantee has been there for banks for as long as I can remember. It’s an RBA guarantee but it only applied to financial institutions that qualified as banks (and thus not building societies or credit unions as people that had their money in Pyramid in the early 90s found out).

      Direct
      Yes, most credit unions won’t charge you for using any ATM (except maybe the independent ATMs. But they will let you use any bank’s ATM as well as their own network).

      Joe
      You clearly don’t know what banks really do. Funding multi-billion dollar deals doesn’t just happen by themselves. It takes an immense amount of effort to get it done. Also, investing isn’t “free”. All of this thing requires a return on investment and depositors in the market.

    • Direct says:

      12:30pm | 15/02/12

      Tyr, I’m happy to be proved wrong, but in order to prove yourself right you’ll actually need to provide a link to PDS that states that customer won’t incur any ATM direct charges for using foreign ATMs when withdrawing amounts of $50 or $100.

      Until then, my point that there is no competition still stands.

    • marley says:

      01:02pm | 15/02/12

      @Tubesteak - well, if there were always guarantees, why does a Treasury paper say this:

      “On Sunday the 12th of October, the Australian Government announced it would guarantee all Australian bank deposits and, for a fee, the wholesale funding of Australia’s banks.

      This was the first time such actions had been taken in Australia’s history.”

      It goes on to explain that: 

      “While the Australian banking system was in good shape — as at mid-October 2008, Australia’s four largest banking groups were among only 10 that were rated AA or higher by Standard & Poor’s — the Government acted to ensure the stability of the Australian financial system and secure flows of credit to the economy. Because other governments had guaranteed the borrowings of their banks, Australian banks were being put at a competitive disadvantage despite being in better shape than were their international competitors. There were also emerging signs of fragility among Australia’s second-tier or smaller banks.”

    • Peter says:

      02:05pm | 15/02/12

      Direct, according to their website Bankwest don’t charge fees for accessing funds through any of the major Banks ATM’s.

      Not sure what your point is though. Why would Westpac say allow CBA customers to use their ATM’s for free? Providing ATM’s is a service that costs money and this cost needs to be recovered.

      If you buy a Commodore and while it’s under warranty get it repaired at a Ford dealership do you expect Ford to wear the cost?

    • kc says:

      05:47pm | 15/02/12

      Ok I like this free financial advice. What would you do in my situation… ?

      Married (30 + 28), Combined Income (~$180k), No kids but would like to start family in next 3 years, $420k mortgage (100% standard variable), $60k savings, $60k equity (but house value not increased a lot in 3 years since we bought it) would like to spend ~$30k into house, or alternatively ~$10k then sell, no other debts or investments. Work for a bank (in IT) so some loyalty and incentives (e.g. no fees) but happy to go somewhere else.

      Reckon there’s something better than the “big banks” in my situation?

    • QE12 says:

      06:22am | 15/02/12

      I’m tired of bank bashing. My parents survived 17% interest rates under Labor’s Keating, paid off their home, never complained and also saved for their retirement.  Banks are a business, they were never intended to be a benevolent society as seems to be the expectations in our entitlement mentality society.

      If we can’t afford to pay for the money we ask them to lend to us, don’t ask. Simple.  We should never buy or borrow anything we cannot afford, factoring in fluctuations in prices and potential economic changes.  I also read that banks are buying money from overseas where the costs of purchasing the money have risen considerably.  And don’t forget shareholders—- many of them seek profitable returns to fund their pensions, or they would invest elsewhere. Then the cost of borrowing would increase more so.

      I also have family members who worked very hard to provide for themselves in retirement so they would not be a burden on taxpayer-funded Centrelink.  Whenever interest rates go up, they get some financial relief.  Inevitably the rates go down, so they have to reconsider claiming the pension. Their prudence is admirable, and it is definitely their bank interest that saves taxpayers.

      There’s never any figures as to how bank interest, earned by hardworking savers, reduces pension claims. There’s a lot of dignity in saving and living independent from Centrelink.

      So can we please give equal attention to all those savers who sacrifice “things” for longer-term financial independence, and accept that a mortgage is a huge responsibility and not a human right.  I would rather our banks be rated amongst the best in the world than the alternative.

    • iMitchy says:

      05:51pm | 15/02/12

      Derryn Hinch tweeted about the self-funded retirees subject yesterday. It is a good point.

      But I would like to make the point though that profit is profit, regardless. Every period does not need to see “record” profits.

      Also, the banks are raising rates to combat the increased cost of sourcing foreign money to lend out. They might do well to reinvest more of their own profits into the lending pool and keep their rates low. If they only reinvest the difference between their new record profit and their last profit amount on top of the amount that they already reinvest, they could reduce their reliance on foreign funding whilst still experiencing growth and continuing to increase their dividends to shareholders.

      Of course if they did this we wouldn’t know anyway and the excuse to raise rates would still seem valid. I wonder if they already do this?

    • thatmosis says:

      06:38am | 15/02/12

      I have to disagree with your opening statement Frank, “world’s best treasurer” , my god the bloke would be flat out running a two ticket raffle. As for the banks listening to him or the government, why should they, the government doesnt listen to the people of Australia, so fairs fair.
      The banks will do whatever they want regardless of what Swann says and have always done that. If money is more expensive to borrow then those that borrow it should be expected to pay more.  Sure you can shift banks or lenders but that could become an expensive merry go round as they up interest rates to suit the conditions. Just be thankful that you arent paying 17% like some had to back a few decades.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:46am | 15/02/12

      Swan may not be able to control the banks so he should stop acting like he can. Enough talk from Swan the nervous blabber mouth follower, he needs to get the Labor party to get their act together before they can manage the economic aspects they have control of.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      06:54am | 15/02/12

      Firstly, we don’t have competition - the Big Four banks are a cartel. 
       
      Secondly, the situation whereby banks don’t give a stuff about their customers will continue as long as remuneration for the executives is based entirely on increased profit and shareprice.

    • Tyr says:

      08:09am | 15/02/12

      Cartels, by their very nature, conspire to control prices in a market. There are multiple loan products from each of the ‘cartel’ members that vary greatly. Ergo, cartel theory is out the window.

      Of course their re-numeration is based on profit and a well-performing share price. They don’t get bonuses for kissing babies in a crowd, or helping someone across the street.

      Once again - they are there to make money. Cash. Bones. Bananas.

      If you invested in a company, particularly one of the big four, and they performed worse and worse each year because they focused on public goodwill rather than generating a return on your investment, funding new and existing businesses, e.t.c would you just sit there and twiddle your thumbs, thinking ‘I am doing a great, honorable service for people who take on too much debt then blame everyone else’?

      P.S if you have a Super Fund that you don’t self-manage, chances are you own indirectly, through a fund, stock in at least one of the four.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      10:57am | 15/02/12

      Tyr

      do try to avoid making excuses for that pack of crooks in suits. They collude when setting base lending rates, they collude on fees for using each others’ ATMs (such that it costs none of them anything, but the customers must pay anyway), hence their activities are those of a cartel.

      Granted, their responsibility is only to their shareholders, so gouging their customers is one way to achieve it, and putting Aussies out of work in favour of Indians is another - I simply regret the circumstances that brought these activities about.

    • Nick says:

      06:56am | 15/02/12

      I have a dream: Gail Kelly’s multi-million mansion at Terrey Hills, suffers a burst water pipe. She rings the local plumbing service and gets the reply:

      “Sorry madam. all our plumbing services have been outsourced to India. We have dispensed with our Australian workforce and saved millions. Our profit bottom line has leapt by 12 %. Of course we can do the job for you but you will have to wait a fortnight while we bring out a plumber. Or of course you could ring our helpline and one of our customer service operators in Mumbai will instruct you on how to do the repair yourself. Thank you madam: always happy to help”

      Such a dream highlights the consequences of every business taking a profit before service approach.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      08:14am | 15/02/12

      As someone who works in IT and has watched Gail Kelly and others like her at so-called Aussie companies such as NAB, ANZ, Westpac, Telstra etc kill off the industry, displacing Aussies for Indians…. I’d pay good money to see this.

    • year of the dragon says:

      10:16am | 15/02/12

      You’ve eloquently made the case for Westpac et al to oursource their services.

      Plumbing cannot be done over the phone. Any plumber that tried that would find themselves very soon broke. However, if there was a plumber that could work out a way to assist me to do basic plumbing with guidance and advice provided over the phone more cheaply than sending someone out then that would be something I would use.

      Financial services can of course be delivered efficiently and cost-effectively electronically. For me, I am happy to organise things that way: in fact, I’m organising a loan that way right now. In doing it this way, I am able to provide information at a time that is convenient to me and ask questions as they occur to me.

      On the other hand, if you prefer the personal approach, service staff are available at the branches. If you would prefer to come to your house I’m sure that they would do that; as long as you are prepared to pay the call-out charges that plumbers (quite reasonably) charge.

      Or, are you saying that the banks should come to your home and attend to you personally (like plumbers do) but not charge for it?

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      10:35am | 15/02/12

      year of the dragon
       
      How would you feel if that outsourced plumber in India had access to all of your personal financial data, the ability to alter passwords to your accounts and your spending history - and was not subject to the Australian Privacy Act 1985 or indeed any Australian court?

    • year of the dragon says:

      12:12pm | 15/02/12

      Tony of Poorakistan says:11:35am | 15/02/12

      year of the dragon
       
      “How would you feel if that outsourced plumber in India had access to all of your personal financial data, the ability to alter passwords to your accounts and your spending history - and was not subject to the Australian Privacy Act 1985 or indeed any Australian court?”

      I wouldn’t like it. However, as my bank is in Australia and must comply wiht the Privacy Act and is within the jurisdiction of the Australian courts I assume that they are not providing my information to third parties illegally.

      If you have evidence that the Australian banks are in breach of the Privacy Act or any of the various consumer protection acts in relation to collusion as you have suggested above, I would love to hear it as I’m sure would the authorities.

      It would certainly influence who I bank with.

    • CH says:

      07:01am | 15/02/12

      “No surprises from the free market theorists or other apologists for the big banks. They despise or dismiss government intervention unless, of course, there’s a global financial crisis and they all line up for government handouts, support and guarantees.”

      Are you suggesting that this system would somehow be unjust or ineffectual? Sounds like the perfect system to me. The government has the power to regulate for the good of the common people, but any government action has to be carefully weighed against the rights of the independent companies which make up our capitalist system. The people have free choice to take their business where they want.. this is a tenant of the free market. Only when there is a drastic problem should government feel compelled to act heavy-handily. It seems to me that the system you describe above would be perfect. Unfortunately it isn’t necessarily the case.. although I suppose it depends on which year (and which country) we’re talking about.

    • Dr McKay says:

      01:34pm | 15/02/12

      So banks should gouge taxpayers in the good times and pay massive bonuses and dividends.  Then when they find, like the grasshopper, they have not saved enough for the winter they scream to the gov for TAXPAYER funded assistance, to pay their bonuses and dividends.

      Yeah, great system CH.  You really thought that one through,

    • Kerryn says:

      07:18am | 15/02/12

      Thank goodness for Credit Unions!  I’m with one and could not be happier.  My very first bank account was with ANZ - and it was one of the happiest times in my life when I was able to close it!

      Up yours big four!

    • Aitch B says:

      11:54am | 15/02/12

      @Kerryn

      Whilst not a credit union, I switched to Citibank from Westpac about 10 years ago and they have been brilliant.

      I say “Up yours big four!” also. smile

    • SteveKAG says:

      07:18am | 15/02/12

      I think it is dispicable that the banks have raised interest rates without an official hike in the RBA interest rate.

      The banks do not give a flying kangaroo about ANYTHING or ANYONE. It is only self serving and it’s only focus is about money. Yes they are a buisiness and yes they need to make profit but it is obscene to be making record profits whilst raising interest rates and laying off 1000 people…..Obscene and disgusting!

      Irrespective of snivelling, lying and cheating swandog telling the banks anything, the fact is that Bankwest was gone, the governement might have asked CBA to take it on however the CBA wanted them for their customers anyway.

      We have no competition in this country but we are not big enough to have the type of competition that is in the US or Europe.  We are a small plop in the ocean of international finance…......

      We just need to sit back, shuit and do as we are told by lying, cheating and incompentent Labor governments and nasty, ruthless, theiving banks.

      Good story!

    • old fart says:

      08:19am | 15/02/12

      have you eer stopped to think that the banks are convenient can carriers for the government of the day, liberal or labor.  Get everyone to hate the banks and they will leave us alone, it will all be their fault governments dont manage the economy, treasury does. governments go to them with a wish list, treasury tells them how to achieve it government makes their minds up and treasury brings it into being.  we dont have the worlds best treasurer, he just has a good treasury

    • Paddy says:

      07:27am | 15/02/12

      When Swan lays down with dogs he has to expect to end up with fleas.
      The question we need 4 Corners to ask (the rest of Canberra Press will not) is “what deal did Swan do with the major banks in January to have them pass on the rate cut after 2 days of negotiation”?
      Did this deal involve bank staff?
      Did this deal simply delay the rate rise?

    • Super D says:

      07:28am | 15/02/12

      The government used to control credit creation far more closely than they do today. During this phase of our economic development credit was harder to get and margins were far higher than they were today. Bank managers who allotted credit at the local level were feigned upon as pillars of the community rather than being seen as equivalent to McDonalds managers as they are today.

      Of course back in those days women couldn’t get loans in their own right and women’s incomes weren’t counted on their husbands loan applications. Though I guess this wouldn’t apply these days - indeed due to government mandated positive discrimination able bodied, employed, heterosexual, married white males may be the last to get credit.

    • MarkF says:

      07:59am | 15/02/12

      After living and paying through the 17 percent Keating years I can finally breathe a sigh of relief because we now own our house.

      Far bigger concern for me is the offshoring of financial details to countries with rampant corruption like India and the loss of jobs in Australia.

    • TrueOz says:

      08:23am | 15/02/12

      “...the free market theorists have been quick to run the media line that we should leave the banks alone.”

      I hate to point out the obvious Frank, but a “free market” is exactly that - a free market. There is presently no such thing as a free market in banking. What we have instead is a tightly controlled club with near impossible barriers to entry. If I had a license to print money (literally) I wouldn’t want anyone else to be able to do it either.

      It is IMPOSSIBLE for the free market to operate in an environment where regulation (prudential or otherwise) stifles competition by making the cost of doing business so high, that only the very few can afford to enter the market or compete in an equitable manner. You of course neglect to mention this inescapable fact.

      Regulation is not the answer Frank - it’s the problem.

    • Big Jay says:

      10:37am | 15/02/12

      @TrueOz…Agree to a large extent. Barriers to entry in the form of red tape rendering real competition virtually impossible is a concept lost on the vast majority of Australian’s.

      I have to say prudential regulation here is very good, but yes regulation by and large needs to be reduced. There is a actually a minister for Finance and Deregulation (at the moment it’s Penny Wong), with the Deregulation part added in when Rudd came to power, however, I’ve seen no real reduction in red tape anywhere in the business world, if anything its been the opposite.

      When it comes to banking competition I always think back to the movie “Chisholm” where John Wayne’s character and his mate just decide to open a bank in town to compete with the local ratbag, and bang its open not days later, no applying to Washington for a license, no need for John Wayne to get his actuarial degree…amazing! hahaha

    • Trog says:

      10:59am | 15/02/12

      Prudential regulation and govt guarantees in Australia were responsible for our economy’s salvation.

      Economics is a science, not a religion or ideology. You can’t fly in the face of the facts forever.

      Raising interest rates causes equities to decline and ups the cost of money to businesses. This is incontrovertible, go back through the charts.

      You may as well be spruiking Intelligent Design as you’re backed by similar levels of evidence.

    • TrueOz says:

      01:52pm | 15/02/12

      @Big Jay
      It never even occurs to most people that we do not in fact live in anything resembling a free market in Australia. When people can do exactly as John Wayne did in Chisholm with impunity, that’s when we’ll have a free market.

      @Trog
      Views so well suited to the name! Tell all the Australians with home loans how beneficial government guarantees for the banks were when those same banks try to roll over their debts later this year. Bank interest rates rose again today, despite the Reserve Bank sitting on its hands. There is a reason for this Trog - it’s called market forces - and market forces will soon drive interest rates to heights never before seen in our lifetimes.

      KRudd, Swanny, Joolya and the other short sighted mental midgets in Canberra had no idea of the market distortions they were creating at the time when the banks pigged out on cheap funds, guaranteed by government, then pumped that money back into a domestic property market - a market which was already in a bubble. We are now starting to see sagging property prices, with much, much worse to follow. Thank you Dear Leaders!

      Economics is about as a much a science as religion. Prudential regulation in Australia is a joke too. Wait and see how quickly Australia’s banks become insolvent on paper when they fail to meet prudential standards for liquidity as property prices tank, and loans drift into default. Just watch the self-serving elite at APRA squirm, and change the goals posts to accommodate a “financial emergency”. Incidentally, and emergency that they can’t foresee, even now, with the evidence mounting every moment of what is about to go down.

      Go back to your cave Trog. it’s safe and warm in there.

    • Gregg says:

      08:40am | 15/02/12

      I’ve always wondered a bit on the relevance of the RBA in setting interest rates to attempt some form of management of the economy and it would be different if the banks all sourced their funding from just within Australia.

      But that not being the case, the banks have for quite some time stressed that sound management practices mean they need to continually review their cost of borrowing and part of that is also loan defaults, their bottom line no doubt also affected by their own investment decisions.

      Banks, just like any other public listed company have shareholders and bank management first priority will always be to maintain profitability and a reasonable return for shareholders.

      I’d imagine that any economist that can apply a percentage would tell you it is not surprising that record profit after record profit should occur while you have upwards inflation for if inflation was five percent and the profit is five percent greater than the previous year, in relative terms the profit level is equal.

      It’s all too simple really!
      And if you feel there’s something in it for you, save a bit harder and become a shareholder.

    • pete says:

      09:02am | 15/02/12

      If. Interest. Rates. Are. A. Problem. You. Have. TOO. MUCH. DEBT.

    • Aussie Wazza says:

      09:14am | 15/02/12

      Banks rip off merchants?

      Joke!

      Borrow from G.E. and see how high interest rates can go.

    • Gil Maher says:

      09:20am | 15/02/12

      How to fix the banks?

      Simple. Take your business elsewhere.  Give the credit unions a go.  It’s not that hard.  People power!!

    • Fred says:

      09:32am | 15/02/12

      The problem is the relentless spruiking of property that’s been going on for about 10 years now largely done by the media in coordination with banks, real estate agents, property developers and the industry in general. Now there’s obviously a lot of people with way too much debt if these tiny interest rate movements are of a significant consequence to them.

      Yeah, banks suck and are crims, but generally speaking the people are morons for buying into the “house price go up is awesome” mantra.

      Very dissapointing.

    • I. Mokey says:

      10:07am | 15/02/12

      Interest rates drop = smaller monthly payments.

      But wait! customer can afford X per month.

      Developers working on market tolerance jack up land and home prices. Same with Gov. grants. Price increases to absorb.

      ‘Buy now while interest rates are SO LOW.’

      ‘C.P.I. will ensure your income will grow by the time interest rates increase. If you don’t get in now you will miss the bus.’

      Total price home and loan = repayment (say) $2,000 per month.

      Interest down. Repayment mug can afford $2,000 per month = increase house price.

      Interest rates up = developer must trim (slightly) to maintain tolerable repayment level. But only trim to market tolerance.

      Mug COULD afford $2,000 per month so push a little to say + 10% more; Mug will find it.

      Land and housing prices are way out of line.

      Banks put rates to what market can tolerate. MUGS at bottom of heap must accept or stay on rent treadmill.

      Take it or leave it.

      More public housing would adjust demand and stymie greedy developers.

      More public housing would reduce bank power.

    • Leigh says:

      10:14am | 15/02/12

      Politicians telling banks what they should be doing is taking socialism too far.

      Banks should be viewed just like any other business in a free-market society. They should be allowed to abide by the same rules and regulations as any other business, and left to customers to decide whether or not they are doing the right thing.

      There are always credit unions and independent lenders to turn to if customers are not happy; but, it seems, that most customers are happy enough as they keep giving banks their custom no matter what some idiot politician says.

      Banks have their costs just like any other business, and if they don’t stay on top of things, the rest of society will drop like a rock. Our safe and solid banking system is the envy of the world.

      People like socialist treasurers and Frank Zumbo trumpet the ‘huge’ profits of the banks, but they never tell us what those seemingly enormous figures represent as a percentage of their investments into the business. Banks have to buy money, too, but these childish critics seem to think that banks just have enormous amounts of money, full stop.

      As for the love of low interest rates – which only encourage more debt – give a thought to those people who rely on reasonably interest rates to fund their retirement; or do you want everyone on the public teat?

      The GFC was brought about by socialist politicians in Europe and the US telling banks that they had to lend to people who could not afford loans.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      10:51am | 15/02/12

      “The GFC was brought about by socialist politicians in Europe and the US telling banks that they had to lend to people who could not afford loans”

      That was part of it. Trading derivatives and junk bonds played a massive part also, when greed of the bankers is paired with a government policy it was never going to end well.

      Actually a lot of the money handed out the Frannie and Freddie were used to do refinances, not much of it went to actual home loans.

    • Trog says:

      10:28am | 15/02/12

      Swan has a massive stick to hold over the Aussie banks. Let the Japanese & US lenders in. The Japanese cash rate is what 0.1% at the moment?  US 0.25% or so? Those guys offering money at far smaller rates.

      The danger is that the RBA loses a macroeconomic lever to cut rates, but you could argue that they’ve already lost that with the Big Four calling their own rates now.

      I reckon if you put a handbrake in, like we legislate for RBA getting power to veto rates on new loans from overseas lenders, then you’ve got a winner. Lenders in a moribund economy like Japan may well go for it - they’ve got huge deposits and with limited opportunities to invest them. 

      I call crap on the cost of finance argument.

    • Du says:

      10:34am | 15/02/12

      You want a capitalist system with free enterprise ,so suck it up.

    • Trevor says:

      04:18pm | 15/02/12

      No I don’t.

    • Swampy says:

      11:09am | 15/02/12

      How do I change my home loan over to the Reserve Bank? Lol.

    • Farken says:

      11:39am | 15/02/12

      john howard and his Treasurer did not do any thing about the big 4 bank when they did it under them all they said was the bank were deregulated and they could not do nothing about it

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      12:35pm | 15/02/12

      Why would anyone pay the slightest bit of attention to anything Wayne Swan says? Is he an Economist? No. Has he any actual experience of Financial matter? NO. He is just a Party hack who does what the bureaucrats tell him to do & say. The Banks have always been fair game for all politicians but they have survived. Yes, Kevin Rudd gave us a Guarantee that if,as a result of the GFC, a bank got into trouble our deposits would be protected. Did any of our banks go to the wall? NO. Did ant of the Banks have to invke that Guarantee? NO. So, at least on paper, that Guarantee Cost Us Nothing.
      Leave the Banks alone, yes they make seemingly huge profits but they have served all of us Very Well over the years. It was thanks to them, with a lot of help from the Hawke-Keating ALP Govenment & the Howard-Costello Governments which took the advice of Treasury & regulated our banks, that Australia virtually escaped any impact of the GFC.
      The Banks are run by people with decades of experience in Matters Financial.
      Know-nothings like Wayne Swan, Penny Wong & the vast majority of all of Australia’s politicians love to have some political football to kick around & what better than the Big, Nasty Banks.
      Maybe it should be mandatory that those who hold the jobs of Federal, State or Territory Treasurer or Finance Minister should all hold Degrees in Economics & Finance from Real Universities like Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide etc. & not those pseudo-unis which used to be TAFE colleges. Maybe they should not only have the necessary Degrees they should have had to work in the Banking & Finance Indsutry for at least 10 years before they are allowed to say a bloody word!
      Yes, I have a mortgage with a Bank. No, I don’t nor ever have worked in a bank

    • Trog says:

      01:05pm | 15/02/12

      The guarantee unfairly advantaged the Big 4 because concerned punters took their deposits out of mutual societies, credit unions etc and gave them to the big banks.

      The guarantee artificially bolstered the BIG 4, while simultaneously weakening their competition.

      The workings of bank financing aren’t the black box/dark art that you’re painting them as here. Why should we leave it to the CEOs of the major banks to furnish us with analysis of their workings? Massive conflict of interest.

      I expect that the Finance Ministers (and their huge team of finance boffins) have a much greater purview of banking than you suppose above.

    • Eskimo says:

      12:39pm | 15/02/12

      It’s not only shareholders that gain from profitable banks. CBA’s record profit this morning equates to $1Bn in taxes. Surely that’s good for everyone.

    • Gloria says:

      03:08pm | 16/02/12

      Reading the comments in haste I wonder in disbelief how the knifing of Australia’s elected PM has affected the mindset of not only the Australian people but the revered House of Representatives. I watched QT in bewilderment without learning anything from the government into how and why they should be credited for the job they say they have done in the last 4 years. I was more focused on the opposition pointing out that the PM had lost the people’s trust and should step down. This is I am afraid is all that the vast majority are now interested in and until she leaves high office can the government govern in the way they should be.

      Gillard began the job in a dishonest way and until the Labor Party dismisses her can they begin to regain the people’s trust and govern.

 

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