Onya Swannie for standing up to the poor little richies

MH says:

03:08am | 04/08/12

*expropriation, not appropriation. Clearly shouldn’t post after 3 bottles.

MH says:

03:02am | 04/08/12

Good question Andye, and one in respect of which you clearly have no idea. The resources belong to the crown in right of the states. Hence the states charge royalties to the mining companies. Which the mining companies pay. It’s really very simple but apparently beyond you.

And in answer to your question, no, the ‘nation’ cannot force a renegotiation. That would be national appropriation. Legitimate in the eyes of Hugo Chavez perhaps but here in Australia we have a little thing called rule of law.

andye says:

08:18pm | 03/08/12

who owns the resources? it isnt the mining companies. they lease the rights. in the case of a huge boom like this, the owners of those resources are no longer getting a fair price compared to the market.

the real fundamental question here is whether the nation can basically perform a forced “renegotiation” against the mining companies like that.

Reality check says:

03:44pm | 03/08/12

And will you vote for the party that ensures business people, lobyists and vested interests cannot donate money without the written permission of every shareholder and consumer who funds their political largess to the Liberal Party? Or is it just Labor funds you want to cut?

Will you require CEOs, executrives and board members to also go through the same processes to get a pay rise as their workers, or do you think they are all acting above board?

Yes the HSU was bodgy, but so were Lehman Bros, HSBC and the builder of the Arrarat Prison - does that make every banker and builder corrupt, or is it just trade unionists you tar with the same brush? Corruption and theft are reprehensible where ever they occur. The fact one union is under investigation hardly precludes unionists making comment. You need to clam down Robert.

andye says:

07:58pm | 03/08/12

@babylon - If you want to say cleaning up the unions is a good idea I am right behind you. If you want to use it as another wedge to attack a whole side of politics you lost me.

“With the way the carbon tax model works, if you’ve got the money, carry on with you’re lifestyle. However, if your in the lower bracket .....”

So you are a socialist? In our society you are allowed to waste whatever the hell you want as along as you can afford it. That is Freedom with a capital F!

Studies show that the poor are harder hit by a carbon tax. The tax cuts skew poor and is a reflection of this. Any carbon tax can be revenue neutral. that is - the collected amount can all be given out as tax cuts. It is a market mechanism and isn’t about collecting money. It is about making carbon expensive.

You are right in that electricity is quite inelastic. So there you suddenly have the problem of funding these companies to try to help them switch. We also have administration costs. So the whole revenue neutral thing isn’t so realistic.

I think the market solution is the best general solution, but we need to look at special cases like power infrastructure and possibly also consider things like regulating in a way to encourage competition. There needs to be innovative solutions to our problems because, while small, we are the worst example per capita for output.

If part of that is, say, trying to measure the carbon sink of our geographic area compared to population and attempting to get this recognised as part of any international trading schemes I would be happy to support the research.

So many ideas and all you guys ever want to do with them is use them to say NO.

Babylon in Canberra says:

03:35pm | 03/08/12

The poorer end of Australian society needs benefits to make ends meet, whether they have a job or not.

With the way the carbon tax model works, if you’ve got the money, carry on with you’re lifestyle. However, if your in the lower bracket .....

The working classes have seen their union fees pillaged with no punishment, only procrastinating and words of support for the leaders that run the labor union organisations.

jase says:

01:48pm | 04/08/12

^ That is laughable!

If people are resorting to high risk tax avoidance measures, that tells you a lot about their feelings towards towards the government and country in general.

All a class war will result in, is more people willing to burn the money than hand it over as tax.

Shane From Melbourne says:

09:19am | 04/08/12

Taxation is the lifeblood of the state. Anybody who engages in tax avoidance is a traitor and should be shot out of hand. Even if they are overseas…..

Jase says:

01:11am | 04/08/12

If this day was to come Shane, you would see the vast majority of capital pulled from the Australian economy over night.  Within that 24 hours 50% of the population would be unemployed..

People take measures to reduce tax because they feel like they a getting ripped off by the government. There is a correlation between tax avoidance and the rates people are taxed.

Shane From Melbourne says:

05:43pm | 03/08/12

Hi Eveything but You (sic). Nice to have a fan, but we really know that it is single childless people whose taxes are paying for your snot nosed brats and that Middle Class family welfare is really just a form of wealth transfer aka socialism. Have a nice day.

Eveything but You says:

02:58pm | 03/08/12

ICB too he should target single, childless people who do nothing but suck up the efforts of others in old age.

Borderer says:

02:58pm | 03/08/12

Instead he taxes minerals, you know the property of the states….

mikem says:

02:53pm | 03/08/12

Negative gearing needs to be added to that list as well Shane.

M says:

02:42pm | 03/08/12

“Wow, must remember this next time we are negotiating…. this is the exact opposite to how they operate.”

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, unionism will destroy the jobs they claim to stand for.

Shane says:

02:40pm | 03/08/12

Strikes to exclude chinese shearers, restrictions on shearing comb size to put a cap on productivity, trading off support for the new ALP to formalise racial restrictions (which we now call the White Australia policy), outrage over imported asian workers for mining, violence against chinese to the point where Queensland was on the brink of civil war and thousands of soldiers were needed to protect immigrants, the BLF, the Painters and Dockers, organised crime, violence, sabotage, preventing troops from getting much needed supplies during wars, theft from union members, ridiculous demands that make new projects in mining not worth pursuing, and the list goes on.

Yes I agree with you Reality Check, Australia’s history has a lot to thank the union movement for.

Reality check says:

02:21pm | 03/08/12

8 hour day, occupational health and safety, 4 weeks annual leave, campaigning for and establishing many of Australias first public hospitals and libraries, long service leave, superannuation for non-executive workers, campaigns against day -hire and piece rates in favour of permanent employment and dignity, sick leave, formal and recognised training and qualifications, PMs like Curtain, Chifley and Hawke…what a terrible reccord the union movement has! Wake up Bitten.

Reality check says:

02:20pm | 03/08/12

8 hour day, occupational health and safety, 4 weeks annual leave, campaigning for and establishing many of Australias first public hospitals and libraries, long service leave, superannuation for non-executive workers, campaigns against day -hire and piece rates in favour of permanent employment and dignity, sick leave, formal and recognised training and qualifications, PMs like Curtain, Chifley and Hawke…what a terrible reccord the union movement has! Wake up Bitten.

M says:

07:06pm | 03/08/12

In the case of future gas and mining projects not going ahead because of exorbitant wage and regulatory cost involved in initial investment and the nature of the fluctuating prices for these resources, I’d say its more the simple matter of having a job rather than anyone getting rich.

nihonin says:

01:19pm | 03/08/12

You mean make the unions accountable…..........my god JT are you crazy, that could mean possibly investigating the party the unions fund as well.

dovif says:

05:06pm | 03/08/12

Yeah it would mean Australians will have jobs, unlike under the current government

Scott Cole says:

02:50pm | 03/08/12

Way,way way back in 1986, my wife and I went to Barry Humpries Show at the Capital Theatre in Sydney where Humphries did the usual characters such as Dame Edna and Sir Les Patterson. But he also did a character sitting on a beach lounge being served drinks by a bikini clad young lady, a character whose name I cannot remember, but who he described as the “head of Australia’s main trade union body, the A.C.U.N.T.” I always wondered whom he was satirising? Bob Hawke had been PM for 3 years, Bill Kelty was ACTU secretary, 25 years later, it could have been a Mr Thompson. Same ideals.

NigelC says:

01:53pm | 03/08/12

You’re right M. Tjhe CFMEU is not the same as the HSU. It is however the same as the BLF. Remember them. Norm Gallagher that Communist Party organiser who fronted the most militant bunch of thugs in Australia’s industrial relations history.  In some ways I wish they were like the HSU, at least we know where the bodies are,..

NigelC says:

01:53pm | 03/08/12

You’re right M. Tjhe CFMEU is not the same as the HSU. It is however the same as the BLF. Remember them. Norm Gallagher that Communist Party organiser who fronted the most militant bunch of thugs in Australia’s industrial relations history.  In some ways I wish they were like the HSU, at least we know where the bodies are,..

DocBud says:

01:46pm | 03/08/12

“The CFMEU is not the same as the HSU mate.”

Only in that the letters are different. All Australian unions are the same in picking the pockets of the members to provide large salaries and perks to the union leaders and in providing unequivocal support to their Labor masters irrespective of the impact on their members’ interests, e.g. CFMEU support for carbon dioxide tax.

It was Mr O’Connor who claimed that the union movement, not just the CFMEU, was one of “Our great Australian institutions”.

MattyC says:

01:23pm | 03/08/12

The rich get richer by legal means….... Whilst I agree with the rest of your sentiment this needs some revision.

Kurisu Sonsaku says:

01:10pm | 03/08/12

“The CFMEU is not the same as the HSU mate.”

True - the CFMEU has more crims, thugs & shonks.

M says:

12:56pm | 03/08/12

The CFMEU is not the same as the HSU mate.

Tom says:

08:44pm | 03/08/12

ProfoundBS, I disagree. You have been nailed pretty well. You a disgruntled hater with a propensity to target those who have worked harder than yourself. In short, you are a loser.

But Swannie luvs you and needs you, fella so who cares what the rest of us think.

ProfoundBS says:

05:10pm | 03/08/12

As it turns out Gig and Tom, divisivenes does suits Swan’s agenda. But you cannot know that it is his primary motivation. That sort of stuff - diviseness - is more like Abbott’s gig. You see, Swanny also happens to have a point - about inequality. Now, maybe I’m envious, maybe I’m not.  Maybe I’m a sucker. But what if Swanny is actually trying to address the issue of equality. And let’s face it, if it wasn’t an issue, why would the names I mentioned before - Gates etc - think it was?
My original question STILL remains.

GigaStar says:

04:04pm | 03/08/12

“Swannie relies on feeble minded envy such as yours. Give you a little hint, divisiveness suits his political agenda. He is not doing it for you.”

Exactly Tom - if he did care Swan would clamp down on the overseas tax havens that ProfoundBS is complaining about (really if ProfoundBS wants to complain about something he should be complaining about government inaction). As I said above Swan’s just creating a PR buzz and the followers follow.

ProfoundBS says:

04:03pm | 03/08/12

Gigastar you are right and you are wrong. Right because it wasn’t really irony - that’s why i first said “type” of irony - it was probably more sarcasm. Wrong because the examples you gave were all sarcasm, which tells me you don’t know what irony is. Tom, I agree some extreme unionists are definately out for all they can get. I won’t be backflipping on anything anytime soon amigo. You and gigastar still haven’t accurately nailed me yet, although I’m sure you both think you have. You haven’t asked me any hardhitting questions. I mean “are you altruistic or do you whine for a living?” and “How do you know they funnell their money OS?” and “How do you know whether they give money?” Seriously, is that all you’ve got? Real intellectual stuff that. But lets just stick to the orginal question: Why do Gates, Buffett, Smith etc (there are plenty of others too) see inequality and give over and above what they pay in tax, while Rinehart, Palmer etc (there are plent of others there as well) do everything in their power to avoid paying any tax at all? Don’t accuse me of whining, just answer the question

GigaStar says:

03:12pm | 03/08/12

“You obviously think that anyone who opposes your view isn’t capable of that type of irony. Or is it just that both of you yourselves are incapable of detecting irony”

Oh dear ProfoundBS is having a hissy fit because someone disagrees with him. This is an opinion site, BS, so if you don’t like people’s freewheeling speech at the expense of your sensitive ego then you know what you can do.

The use of “tongue in cheek” statements is not irony. Both are a form of sarcasm but are not the same. An example of irony would be “I think you know what you’re talking about” or “gee, I think you’re really smart”. Maybe you need to brush up on your writing skills or better yet just buy a dictionary.

Just because you’re not hearing about the rich being altruistic doesn’t mean that its not happening - some just aren’t media hoares like Dick Smith. Do you have any evidence of the amounts of money being funnelled overseas by the rich? While you’re at it how much money do tradies skim off the top, or cafe-owners? How much money have unions embezzlemented of their hard-working members?

Hope you have a nice day! (yes that was another use of irony)

Tom says:

03:00pm | 03/08/12

OK, ProfoundBS, tell me how many fat gutted, blue singleted wharfies actually give a rolling donut about their fellow countrymen? How many are ultruistic? Not one is my guess. They gouge whatever they can.

How many “whatever it takes” union leaders give a stuff about their own constituencies let alone the good of fellow Australians?

Are you altruistic? Do you give anything or do you whine for a living?

“Why do other rich people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and even our own Dick Smith see inequality and acknowledge it and want to actually do something about it, ...”

How do you know whether or not they give money? We know Bill Gates gives plenty because he states it publicly. Well, God bless the rich. But Gates also opened up an industry that has employed millions of people.  Well, God bless the rich.

Shall we keep on going with your misplaced sense of entitlement or do you want to backflip to your comfortable, “I was just having a little piece of irony” excuse?

Swannie relies on feeble minded envy such as yours. Give you a little hint, divisiveness suits his political agenda. He is not doing it for you.

ProfoundBS says:

02:26pm | 03/08/12

Gigastar & Tom: When I said “I keep asking myself” it was kind of tongue in cheek, Ok? You obviously think that anyone who opposes your view isn’t capable of that type of irony. Or is it just that both of you yourselves are incapable of detecting irony, therefore betraying your own mental shortcomings? I guess this would explain in the first place why you have the views you already have.
Now, if you’ll catch up with me - I hope I haven’t lost you again - what I really should have said was why the hell do these particular people who are obscenely rich feel ENTITLED to dodge paying tax - their share - which is measured out by the LAW and always has been? Why do they just want MORE and MORE and MORE money? Why do other rich people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and even our own Dick Smith see inequality and acknowledge it and want to actually do something about it, as opposed to wanting to just keep lining their own pockets having the attitude that everyone else “should just stop being such bludgers”???

Tom says:

01:31pm | 03/08/12

ProfoundBS, and bless our pea-brained envy. Get a job in mining, buy some mining shares. But most of all, stop your conceited “loser talk”.

GigaStar says:

01:30pm | 03/08/12

Profound BS - where do you think jobs come from? C never said it was their sole purpose but without them the majority of people would be unemployed.

As for the rest of your post you sound like one of those “entitled” people that are “owed” everything

ProfoundBS says:

01:04pm | 03/08/12

Oh bless the rich and their altruistic ways, for their sole reason for getting out of bed in the morning is to put bread on our poor little tables and a roof over our heads.
But I keep asking myself, if “the rich” are doing it all for queen and country, why are they keeping all their profits - profits, that is, not revenue - in off shore accounts to avoid tax? Do they think we, the little ones, are already receiving enough of their hard-earned largesse?

Chris L says:

04:03pm | 03/08/12

I’m being lazy Mouse. Besides, while I tend to side more with the left than the right it doesn’t mean I’m willing to offer Michael any backup here. You have to admit though, this is just the kind of article to get the froth flowing

(furry)

Mouse says:

03:44pm | 03/08/12

Come on ChrisL, you can do better than that.  Providing of course that you are the true ChrisL!!  lol :o)

AdamC says:

04:23pm | 03/08/12

M, there is no doubt the CFMEU is pricing itself out of the market. If Ted Bailleu had half a ticker - and some leverage over Caberra - he would arrange for foreign labour to work on Victorian building sites.

Babylon in Canberra, I agree that this class warfare schtick is an attempt to distract people from Labor’s stuff ups and deceptions. The problem is, it only plays with the rusted-ons anyway.

Babylon in Canberra says:

02:26pm | 03/08/12

As Julia Gillard reminded us she signs over the resources and she signs off the Project Plan….. So watch out mining magnates Julia calls the shots.

Within the Project Plan is a Resource Schedule that allocates the number of overseas 457 Visa workers.

These visas are allocated by the Government not Clive Palmer. The Gillard Government had no problem signing these Projects off in the past. But that was before the leak and public outrage.

I have never heard the Gillard Government distance itself from the hiring of overseas workers until this article.

On the contrary, the Governments PR machine has defended the use of overseas Labor taking new Australian jobs…. We’re skill less, we won’t travel etc.

The Gillard Government has done nothing for the lower classes. The carbon pricing has either taken their jobs or made them benefit dependent.

Trying to split Australia with a class war just to generate votes is below the belt. Australia is a class less society and there is opportunity here to make money and move yourself forward.

Without the Mining Industry the Australian economy under Swan Would be decidedly ordinary, with some areas even depressed. Manufacturing showed a -0.8 growth. So the idea of Swan attacking the hand that feeds us is propostrous. Love them or hate them these mining magnates are what’s between us and the devil. I mean do you know how much this Governments borrowed.

Swan MRRT is a loan, he himself admitted that the contributing mines in the scheme won’t be up and running till 3 to 4 years hence.

Conclusion: It’s the usual cock and bull from Labor.

M says:

12:55pm | 03/08/12

There’s word about that our wages and safety standards (really, some of them are to the point of increduality) are making future gas projects less competitive with those going ahead in america.

Mr O’Conner, whilst I am a supporter of the right to a fair wage and a fair living, I find it hard to take you seriously when part of the award for men working on my site is a $20 a day allowance for walking across 6 feet of sand when they disembark the barge in the morning and get back on in the afternoon. Surely the unions must realise that at some point they are taking the piss and actually doing their members more harm than good when you factor in global economics and projects.

The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

06:19pm | 03/08/12

pa_kelvin….nothing indeed !  Swan is morphing into some kind of cross between a Labor hack on coke and a Green on mushrooms .
We don’t have to bow to mining magnates but we do depend on their invested dollar for thousands of Australian jobs.
Maybe the Labor Cabinet heavies could muzzle this twit before he drives more investment dollars overseas.

dovif says:

04:53pm | 03/08/12

A quick check of Michael would review he is a union head, of which Williamson (I will pay all of my member’s money into my related company’s account) was at one stage ALP party president

Obviously Williamson was the most successful union bass, which Michael want to aspire to become.

What does the unions do anyway? apart from using member’s money on prostitutes, or lining their own pocket, and choosing who is ALP leader (union withdrawing funding, if Rudd is leading the ALP) that should scare them into keeping Julia?

Unions are nothing more then thugs, who operate at worse ethics then big businesses. And while Big Business creates job for Australiams, Unions not only do not create jobs, they distroys jobs.

If not for the mutual protection the ALP and Unions afford each other. I wonder how many union leader would be jailed by now. Note how long it took “fair work” Australia to investigate union thug Thompson and union thug Williamson

If they were an employer and not a union leader, they would be in jail for what they did

What we know is that the morally bankrupt ALP would do nothing, which will always be the case

Bill the pieman says:

04:34pm | 03/08/12

the fact that this man and his union are still members of the ALP speaks volumes - thousands of his members have lost their jobs in the timber industry because of the ALP/Greens alliance.

Bill the pieman says:

04:33pm | 03/08/12

the fact that this man and his union are still members of the ALP speaks volumes - thousands of his members have lost their jobs in the timber industry because of the ALP/Greens alliance.

Tom says:

01:27pm | 03/08/12

Funny that Michael O’Connor does not mention Swannie opting not to talk about Michael Williamson’s opulent lifestyle at the expense of low paid health workers.

For that matter, where is Michael O’Connor’s treatise on Craig Thomson screwing the little people?

Funny that Swannie does not want to do anything about these disgusting people in the Labor ranks. Doesn’t suit Swannie’s divisive agenda, does it? ICH: I call hypocrite.