If it’s possible that anything positive could come out of the Fort Hood shootings in the United States last week let’s hope it raises the much maligned profile of mental health in the armed forces. 

Private Will Kearns in Iraq. Pic by Gary Ramage

One third of American troops return home from Iraq suffering from some form of mental health issue. 

High divorce rates and domestic violence are also increasingly common.

So when you consider President Obama’s recent announcement to send 40, 000 more troops to Iraq things are staring to look pretty bad. 

As Tim Blair wrote earlier this week it’s naïve and stupid to ignore the place of Major Nidal Malik Hasan’s religious and political connections in the tragedy.

His actions are indefensible. And the latest reports of unexplained connections to a recruiter for al Qaeda or his justification of suicide bombings and anti-American propaganda all point to a potentially collaborative and dark act of terrorism. Not to mention they’re alarmingly out of step with expectations and behaviour of “normal” soldiers.

Whether Hasan was acting as an extremist killing in cold blood or as a result of some psychological disturbance, or a combination of both, remains to be seen. But it does shed some light on the difficulties with handling the mental health of soldiers. 

Newsweek columnist Kate Daily has suggested Hasan’s terrifying actions could also well be seen as a real example of how impossible it is to chart the impact of an eight year war- even on those not fighting. 

And there’s support for this theory best found in reports from military families and soldiers themselves. 

For example at a ceremony held on Sunday for the victims of the Fort Hood shootings June Taylor a Military mother told CBS news: “One of their own has gone off the deep end, for whatever reason, we don’t know what happened, but he needed help.”

While the potentially damaging psychological effects of warfare clearly haven’t led to such tragic results, the mental health of our troops remains a cause for concern.

The Age reported earlier this year up to 10 per cent of our troops return home with long-term mental health issues; a statistic made worse in the knowledge that we have so few services available to provide assistance. 

The Australian Defence Force announced its commitment to a $83m mental health care plan in May this year that includes the recruitment of mental health workers.

But they also admit more needs to be done to address aspects like the involvement of family members and improved mental health training for ADF Staff. 

One program that has taken off in the United States and to a lesser extent, the United Kingdom is Virtual Iraq. It’s a computer simulated program that draws on sights, sounds and smells of the war. Based on immersion therapy it forces Iraq veterans to confront their fears and memories head-on.

You can read one veteran’s account of the program here but it’s not for the fainthearted.

Resembling something like a journal entry of a nightmare it’s difficult to imagine just how much courage it would take for someone who had just been through the horrors of war to keep fronting up for such extreme treatment on a regular basis. 

Despite the intensity developers say its effective and most users report experiencing an ease in sleep patterns within a matter of weeks. 

So what a shame then the program isn’t being offered to Australian veterans who could benefit from the accessibility of a virtual program. 

According to Associate Professor Britt Klein a psychologist and the founder of the founder of pst-online.org at Swinburne University in Victoria, says programs like Virtual Iraq have been implemented to some extent here but lack of funding and the belief in the need for more research have held it back. 

Watching the men and women in uniform selling badges today – as we remember the sacrifice of all those people from past generations who fought so bravely – I’m wondering what could possibly be holding us back.

The war is already eight years old.

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42 comments

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    • Eric says:

      07:21am | 12/11/09

      Give me a break. Hasan’s rampage was an Islamic jihadist attack which had nothing to do with mental health.

      Of course the well-being of our soldiers is important, but don’t mix it in with irrelevant issues.

    • caroline says:

      09:24am | 12/11/09

      eric, a murderous rampage always has something to do with mental health.  whatever reason is given (jihad, bullying at school) it is not an act of a stable or rational mind.  i think it’s a bit of a cop out to call it extremism and therefore feel no responsibility for how it came about or how it might have been prevented.

      soldiers see things we cannot and choose not to imagine.  they live constantly on tenterhooks, with elevations of adrenalin that have enduring impacts upon their physiology and psychology.  when they come home they must live with hellish images in their heads and their horror at what they have witnessed, felt and played a part in.  the fallout of such high stress and experience of such raw violence is complex; even with intensive attention and therapy the impact will be long lasting, and in most cases the very minimum psychological support is offered. 

      no one is less pro-war than me.  but people who are sent by their government to participate, with the very real possibility of losing their lives, deserve a whole lot more support than they currently get.  rates domestic violence, blind rage, depression and drug/alcohol abuse are high in populations of returned soldiers - it’s only a matter of time before it is witnessed on a larger scale than in the bedroom or the pub.

    • Ben says:

      09:35am | 12/11/09

      There appears to me to be only anecdotal evidence and hearsay at the moment that point to this being an orchestrate terrorism related event. Unless you can show us proof of that Eric? I would prefer to wait and see what he has to say for himself when he is able to actually speak, and let the investigations run their course before jumping to conclusions.

      All returning servicemen and women should have access to any and all service to enable them to manage their mental state. After serving their country it is the least the deserve.

      Surely the shrinks and bean counters could see a relatively small capital outlay early on to set up something like ‘Virtual Iraq’ would help reduce the numbers who suffer from a mental illness or are struggling to cope and would also be much cheaper than long term support for veterans.

    • Simon says:

      10:07am | 12/11/09

      Lucy - is the irony that the murderer was a psychiatrist (whose motivation for committing the murders was purely Islamic and had nothing to do with post traumatic stress) lost on you ?

      Caroline - Nidal saw no action so your comments are irrelevant to this case

      Ben - at this point there is only anecdotal evidence and hearsay because hey that’s generally the only evidence you get of motivation after a mass murder.

      Nidal - shouted “Allah akbar’ while doing the killings

      attended an extremist mosque which was also attended by two of the September 11 killers

      posted comments on the internet praising suicide murderers

      praised suicide bombers on a number of occasions.

      He was sufficiently under suspicion due to these things to be under investigation by the FBI.

      Exactly what further evidence do you want ? A brain scan ? DNA analysis ?

      Good luck with that ‘virtual Iraq’ idea - it sounds like a winner. Perhaps we can set up a virtual Fort Hood for the survivors where they can re-live getting shot by this guy in the context of a video game. I’m sure that will make them feel a whole lot better.

      Whole lot of stupid going on.

    • Catherine says:

      10:08am | 12/11/09

      Eric, you are a hypocrite.  How many other blogs have I read comments from you about how ‘mens issues’ get ignored that only ‘womens issues’ are discussed or valued? And yet this is an articile about an issue which effects mainly men advocating an increase in health and support systems and all you have to say is “Give me a break.”

      People who has sacrificed so much for their country deserve every support we can give them.  Whether you support the War or not.

    • Eric says:

      10:15am | 12/11/09

      Caroline and Ben, you are living in a dream world.

      Hasan was an army psychologist. He was never in a war zone and was never exposed to battle.

      Hasan is a devout Muslim. He attended the same mosque as two of the 9/11 hijackers, at the same time they were there. The imam of that mosque was a radical cleric who preached Jihad.

      Hasan is on record as supporting Islamic suicide bombers, condemning American troops for attacking Islam, and attempting to convert his patients to the Muslim faith.

      And as he started his jihad attack, Hasan yelled “Allahu akbar!”, the typical jihadist slogan.

      This was a pure act of Islamic terrorism. Look up the evidence yourselves. Denial is simply ridiculous.

    • Kate says:

      10:20am | 12/11/09

      Hi Lucy. Good piece as always. Sadly this issue is not new - men were mentally scarred after WWI and WWII, Korea, Vietnam - every conflict you can think of. The Virtual Iraq ideas is interesting in that it is a “treatment”. The US military - and perhaps military from other nations - have been using computer games for eons to desensitise troops as part of their preparation going in.

    • Chase Stevens says:

      10:21am | 12/11/09

      Jihad means spiritual struggle. Please stop using it as another word for terrorism. Or at least qualify it with violent.

    • Simon says:

      10:27am | 12/11/09

      Chase -

      Nonsense. Jihad means struggle. Those engaged in jihad are called mujahideens. Countless militant organisations use the word mujahideen to describe themselves. Others are entitled to use the word in the same manner.

      Lots of stupid dressed up as smart on this blog.

    • Ben says:

      10:32am | 12/11/09

      Eric, lots more ‘evidence’ and still no proof. I don’t deny the current weight of evidence is against him. I also think that such an emotive subject draws out some very questionable evidence from both sides. Like I said previously, I’d like to wait until all the investigations are complete and we can sift the assumptions from the fact. Don’t believe everything you read Eric, unless you want it to be true???

    • pc says:

      10:35am | 12/11/09

      Hi Lucy, Ben and Caroline, I think we find it easier to support our soldiers when it comes to their physical wounds - wounds which we can see - it is more difficult, more expensive and more time consuming to deal with those psychological traumas that are often more difficult to detect.  Our soldiers though, I’m sure, are glad that some in the media are taking the time to think about their welfare. We just had rememberance day after all, a day which we celebrate those soldiers that gave Eric and Simon the right to spout whatever kind of malicious bull$hit they like. I guess they also fought for our right to label Eric and Simon, Vogons. You guys know what vogons are dont you?

    • caroline says:

      10:49am | 12/11/09

      Phew, lucky you came along with your real smart, Simon!

      I stand by the fact that massacre, be it in the name of extremist terrorist action or otherwise, is not the act of a person in good mental health.  The fact that Nidal is a psychologist, while ironic, in no way indicates that his mental health was in good shape.  I did not realise that he had not served in battle, so you’re right - my comments about the impact that post traumatic stress do not apply to him. 

      However, I think the conversation regarding the psychological health of service people and the support they receive on the front line and back home is an important one, as it has ramifications for individuals, families and society at large.  It begs a question actually… if the sort of psychological support being provided to those at Camp Hood is in the form of someone who has been under the watch of federal authorities for possibly terrorist links and inclinations, how much importance are they placing on the mental wellbeing of their forces?

    • Simon says:

      11:03am | 12/11/09

      pc - Other than the fact that you’ve read Hitchiker’s Guide (or did you just see the movie) and seem proud of that fact, how exactly does your little rant relate to the issue which Eric and I were talking about -

      ie why does Lucy use a murderous rampage by an Islamic psychiatrist (!) who never saw action and who had the equivalent of a desk job to argue for better psychiatric treatment for veterans suffering PTSD after seeing action.

      And yes if it makes you feel better, I am a Vogon, and you are Ford Prefect - OK fanboy ?

    • caroline says:

      11:20am | 12/11/09

      hey simon, i just read the article in newsweek that lucy refers to.  it talks about the immense stress that an 8 year war puts on all factions of the military whether they see frontline service or not.  ptsd is being diagnosed in people who have not been deployed, though less often than in those who have.  those charged with supporting and ‘healing’ roles (eg psychologists) may be slightly more at risk as they may feel they are unable to ask for help as they should be providing it. 

      no one is denying the links that nidal seems to have strong links to extremist groups, but it takes for than a fundamental viewpoint to push someone over the edge.

    • Simon says:

      11:21am | 12/11/09

      Ben - like you I am waiting for the necessary technology to be invented to allow a brain scan (perhaps it will be called ‘a motivational mentality brain reading analysis’) which will prove irrevocably, beyond a shadow of a doubt and to your complete satisfaction the reason behind the murders.

      Until that bright future comes I will continue to draw common sense conclusions from the evidence produced.

    • Catherine says:

      11:25am | 12/11/09

      Simon, does that mean that we should not use this terrible crime to advocate for solders who are suffering?  You don’t think that sitting in a room listening to the horrors of war all day everyday, hearing the stories, the nightmares and seeing the trauma suffered by returning soldiers had no effect on this guy?  Because he is Islamic he is some kind of unfeeling monster?

      While there is no excuse for the horrible crime he committed, you can’t say this guys actions where not effected by his job and what he experianced in his job.

    • Lucy Kippist

      Lucy Kippist says:

      11:29am | 12/11/09

      Hi Simon, thanks for your comments. Not sure if you read the Newsweek link but there is evidence of PST among people who have not actually fought on the ground in Iraq.  But perhaps more importantly quotes from military families in the US and stats on troops here show the mental welfare of all members of the military as a result of the length of the war is a concern.  Irrespective of Hasan’s case my point is that this is a serious issue.

    • John A Neve says:

      11:31am | 12/11/09

      Caroline @ 1024hrs.

      Putting nationality to one side, why does some one in the armed forces deserve more support than any other citizen?

      They chose their profession, they are mercenaries, they do what they do for the money. To the best of my knowledge Australia has not declared war on any one.

      So why the special treatment?

    • Simon says:

      11:46am | 12/11/09

      Lucy - I accept your point that we need to look after out troops. I also thought that this was a strange example to base your point on.

      Catherine - again I’m not sure if you see the irony. You are advocating increased psychiatric assistance (in Hasan’s case) to treat a psychiatrist for the stress suffered while providing psychiatric assistance.

      I’m going to call Alanis Morisette - I’ve got a great idea for a song.

    • caroline says:

      11:47am | 12/11/09

      not special treatment john - the same treatment any employer should offer their staff for adverse effects experienced as a direct consequence of their job. 

      i would say the same for emergency services workers and any other citizen (or non-citizen) who experience stress or trauma in their line of work.

    • Sam says:

      12:01pm | 12/11/09

      Love it how “terrorism” and “Al-Qaida” and “extremism” are now part of the Hasan story! The guy was a psychiatrist, a Major no less, in the US army for Christ’s sake! Can’t an individual oppose an unwinnable war that has cost 1.5 million lives without being branded a “terrorist” or portrayed as a terrorist sympathiser at the very least. The war was never about terror. It was about Israel’s security, Saudi Arabia’s security, keeping Iran in check, and oil supplies. Terror was and still is the perfect excuse to build army bases in the Middle East and kill several birds with one stone. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Taliban are working with the CIA to create a never ending tug-of-war. Meanwhile those who are in on it are making a killing from unfairly tendered reconstruction contracts.

      One and a half million people… has that number registered in anyone’s mind yet. This is approaching WWII proportions. This is WWIII and it seems we haven’t quite learned our lessons since WWII.

      “Lest we forget” my arse. We’ve already forgotten a long time ago. Shame on all of us.

      Do you still believe in democracy by the people? Hah, what a sad joke.

    • caroline says:

      12:06pm | 12/11/09

      sheesh.  simon.  do you think psychiatrists are immune to psychological stress?  that’s probably the sort of attitude that prevents them from seeking support when they feel overwhelmed.  the fact that it is ironic does not make it untrue.

    • Sam says:

      12:32pm | 12/11/09

      It’s not only military families who are exhibiting signs of trauma. I’m a civilian safe on the other side of the world and I’ve been traumatised since 911. Perhaps it’s because I was born muslim and it could have been me if it weren’t for some key events earlier in my life. Perhaps it’s because I’ve got relatives in the area who aren’t fortunate enough to jump on a plane and come to Australia. Perhaps its because I have a bloody conscience and I think the “conspiracy theories” are more credible than the official line from the White House, the UN or any other body. People, does one and a half million preventable murders register? And where’s that bloody useless German Pope who’s supposed to be God’s representative on Earth! I’m beginning to understand why democracy doesn’t work. It’s because the power has been so diluted that we’re left feeling powerless, helpless, disenchanted… and the weaker ones succumb to radicalisation. Not me, I’m too busy saving for a house deposit… but Osama has a lot of spare time and he owns several caves. Meanwhile, the death toll climbs steadily with every explosion, but don’t worry too much because it’s on the other side of the world and Australia hasn’t formally declared war on anyone, and there’s Britney Sprears and Tiger Woods to idolise. What a bloody mess.

    • pc says:

      12:51pm | 12/11/09

      Simon and Eric - Vogons are one of the most unpleasant races in the galaxy. Not actually evil, but bad tempered, bureaucratic, officious and callous. They wouldnt even lift a finger to save their own grandmothers from the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal without orders signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recyceled as firelighters. The best way to get a drink out of a Vogon is to stick your fingers down his throat, and the best way to irritate him is to feed his grandmother to the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. On no account should you allow a Vogon to read poetry to you.

      John Neve raised an interesting point. Do you servicemen deserve better treatment? I dont think thats the issue here. Anyone suffering pst deserves treatment and not just soldiers slip through the cracks. Delivering such services in the field is complicated and expensive, i suspect there is a link as Kate indicated between training for killing - simulations etc and training after killing - I doubt there is any substitute for clinical care.

    • Sam says:

      01:14pm | 12/11/09

      And how sad is it that we’re beginning to band together for the sake of protozoa, the dugong, and humpback whales… while human beings are blown into smithereens and suspected of terrorist links when they seek assylum. You’ll forgive me if I don’t recycle, or take 4 minute showers, or hold in my farts on the tram. Without humanity, I couldn’t give a rats arse about your environment. I wish I could buy a coal-fired power plant and run it at a loss till the sky was as black as your hearts.

    • John A Neve says:

      01:14pm | 12/11/09

      PC @ 1351hrs.

      Stress comes in many forms, also it’s impact varies person to person.
      Doctors, nurses, bus drivers, women with many young children, the list goes on. It is said we all live in a stressfull world, so where do we start and where do we stop.

      The man at the centre of this debate was himself employed to counter the stress in others! How do we assess the point at which some one cracks?
      More importantly, how do we deliver treatment to all that need it and at what stage do we need it?

    • Simon says:

      01:15pm | 12/11/09

      Sam says -

      “Love it how “terrorism” and “Al-Qaida” and “extremism” are now part of the Hasan story! The guy was a psychiatrist, a Major no less, in the US army for Christ’s sake! Can’t an individual oppose an unwinnable war that has cost 1.5 million lives without being branded a “terrorist” or portrayed as a terrorist sympathiser at the very least.”

      I’m with you 100 % Sam - it’s obviously patently unfair to portray Major Nidal in this way. Of course you might accept that his form of ‘opposition’ took rather an ‘extreme’ (is that too strong a word Sam ?) form, ie

      a.join the US army

      b. wait a few years

      c. butcher your fellow, unarmed soldiers while they are taking part in a graduation ceremony

      I wholeheartedly apologise for ‘branding’ him in this way.

      Not sure about the reference to ‘democracy by the people’ Sam. You see Barack Obama was elected President and as such has decided to continue to fight the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. That, you see, is how democracy works.

    • Simon says:

      01:22pm | 12/11/09

      pc

      I had thought that my ‘fanboy’ comment was drawing a bit of a long bow, but apparently not.

    • pc says:

      01:43pm | 12/11/09

      Simon, I thought that my vogon comment was drawing a bit of a long bow but apparently not - I guess everyone in cell block H agrees with you.

      And Sam maintain the rage, its good to laugh even if it is through tears.

      And John Neve, I completely agree about stress, and I think it is inevitable that as our lives become more complicated and more stressful you will see an expansion of the stress counselling and alike programs run for “high stress” jobs, investment bankers, many politicians, athletes for perhaps everyone and then Simon can attack “the bloody nanny state telling me not to bash the Freckin chick who tried to give me her seat on the bus the other day. Bloody #itch.”

      Youre not going to start reading poetry are you Simon?

    • caroline says:

      01:43pm | 12/11/09

      simon for heavens sake, this is not personal.  use your manners like a big boy and stop with the wearisome sarcasm.

    • Sam says:

      01:54pm | 12/11/09

      @Simon, no “extreme” would be accurate enough. He’s a mass murderer at least.

      I was all for the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I still am. I thought they’d go in and eventually make it a better place for its inhabitants by establishing democracy and controlling Islamic fanaticism…. but they’re pussy-footing around and being inefficient to say the least. I’m left resigned to the conclusion that their priority is to control a few key areas that supply oil and enable them to keep a closer eye on Iran and Pakistan while the general population is left to sort out the mess of civil war effectively. It’s like they’re running a war on a shoe string budget without any legitimate concern for the innocent civilians who couldn’t care less whether Iraq was governed by Saddam or as the fifty-nth state of the USA. These innocent fathers, mothers, children, teenagers and adolescents need infrastructure to persue their personal aspirations. Without that infrastructure, there’s nothing to do but congragate in mosques and plot terrorist activity which is a last resort available to any disenchanted human being who has lost hope. So I believe the US actually prefers that a very small amount of terrorist activity remains so that they are apparently justified in continuing the occupation. Heaven forbid that the people should be able to get on with their lives, more than 5 years after their horrible dictator has been executed, then they’d have no reason to stay and keep a watchful eye on the neighbouring timebombs (ie. Iran and Pakistan). It also irritates me that Israel doesn’t step up as a world leader. It is perfectly justified in pre-emptively defending itself from any hostility, but in a largely democratic world stage it would have to risk looking like the aggressor (again the disadvantages one is faced with when operating within a democracy). There should be a UN resolution against anti-Israelism and the real “mother of all coalitions” should be formulated and let’s rumble in the jungle.

      If we as a species cannot collectively ensure the security of Jews (and subsequently all others), then there isn’t going to be an environment worth protecting.

    • Simon says:

      02:08pm | 12/11/09

      Caroline - I treat reasonable arguments in a reasonable way. I haven’t been sarcastic to either you or Lucy. I think you’re wrong but not deranged.

      As far as a lot of the other commenters go .... how should I respond to the Bugblatter Beast of Traal, or Sam rabbiting on about Nidal being a protester and then going on about protozoa ? These guys are not worth responding to in any way other than ridicule.

      So, thanks for the tip, but I’ll stay sarky.

    • Simon says:

      02:12pm | 12/11/09

      “Simon can attack “the bloody nanny state telling me not to bash the Freckin chick who tried to give me her seat on the bus the other day. Bloody #itch.””

      Not sure how you got this from my comments on Nidal pc ? Are you bashing the #itch or am I - it’s hard to tell from your garbled syntax ?

      You seem to live a rich fantasy life. Keep laughing through the tears.

    • Jan says:

      02:19pm | 12/11/09

      To Lucy and others like her.

      Why do you make a normal person a mentaliy sick person soon they make a crime?
      At the moment he is a criminal, murderer and dose not talk to anyone.
      So until we have more fakts please don’t make provocative comments or comments that exuse him for commiting crime.

      If it was first mass kiling in the USA perhapse I would think that it was becouse he was mentaly sick or becouse of his Muslim background.

      So stop makeing criminal a victim,sick man or a hero, he is none!
      So far we dont know is he was mentaly sick or had a SWINE FLU!

    • Eric says:

      02:27pm | 12/11/09

      Simon, I think pc is a little bit ... strange.

    • Ben says:

      02:29pm | 12/11/09

      Simon,

      I think it may be hypocritical to suggest that others have ‘a rich fantasy life’ after dreaming up ‘like you I am waiting for the necessary technology to be invented to allow a brain scan (perhaps it will be called ‘a motivational mentality brain reading analysis’) which will prove irrevocably, beyond a shadow of a doubt and to your complete satisfaction the reason behind the murders’ without any previous suggestion of anything remotely similar. Not exactly Mr Credible.

    • SteveB says:

      02:43pm | 12/11/09

      Eric: I can only assume that every time some whack job gunman claims “Jesus/God/The Devil told me to do it” it counts in your mind as an act of Christian terrorism?

      Or are Christian killers just crazy?

    • Sam says:

      02:47pm | 12/11/09

      @Simon, I thought pc’s post mentioning the Vogons and Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal was basically having a go at apathy in our world. That sounds quite relevant to me. And my mention of protozoa was a jab at people who have their priorities upside down caring for the environment before their fellow human beings. Again, quite relevant in discussions of modern day warfare.

      You may ridicule all you like, perhaps you’re unable to make the connection between people’s attitudes, priorities, political views, and the value of laughter through tears. It’s a long bow for a brain with gaps, but I hereby declare that I know enough (not everything but enough) and it ain’t a long bow for my mind.

      You said yourself that until we develop a motivational mentality brain reading analysis tool you’d continue to draw conclusions from the evidence produced. Well it doesn’t have to be admissable in a court of law to be admissable into your mind for deeper analysis does it? Or it’s probably more convenient to put it in the too-hard basket. Meanwhile the death toll rises a little more… we’re waiting for the millions of people like you to join the dots and wake up from your convenient disengagement. It could happen in Australia mate, it could happen to a relative passing through Zimbabwe on a safari… or maybe you’re living on another planet all together with Richard Branson. La la land. The land of worthless opinions. Hmmm, that’s where we’re all living apparently. Oh what the hell, might as well laugh.

    • pc says:

      05:54pm | 12/11/09

      Hi Lucy, sorry about the descent into vogonity, but I just saw a very relevant episode of the Newshour, last nights, dedicated to caring for US troops and the difficulty the troops - esp the marines - have in asking for help with ptsd and depression - pbs.org

    • Dan says:

      06:06pm | 12/11/09

      Eric and Simon, you don’t know why he did it. Simon, to say that the murders were purely Islamic when Islam condemns murder is ignorant at best! Also, Simon, those engaged in Jihad are not called Muhajadeed. Muhajadeen simply means holy warrior; Jihad is ofte used to refer to inner struggle.

      Eric,  you are a fool. You don’t need to go to war to have Post-traumatic stress Syndrome. You would know that if you did any reasearch. On anything.

    • Simon says:

      08:14am | 13/11/09

      Dan

      I will paste the evidence we have from my comment above (please read it this time as I dopn;t want to copy and paste it again) -

      Nidal - shouted “Allah akbar’ while doing the killings

      attended an extremist mosque which was also attended by two of the September 11 killers

      posted comments on the internet praising suicide murderers

      praised suicide bombers on a number of occasions.

      He was sufficiently under suspicion due to these things to be under investigation by the FBI.

      Exactly what further evidence do you want ? A brain scan ? DNA analysis ?

      “Simon, to say that the murders were purely Islamic when Islam condemns murder is ignorant at best! “

      That is an amazingly stupid argument. By that argument no Islamist can commit murder. 3,000 people who used to live in Manhattan might disagree.

      The word mujahideen derives from jihad. So you are wrong, end of story

      3 strikes, 3 misses. Try again dopey.

    • Sam says:

      09:20am | 13/11/09

      Listen to me, the crazy Arab. “Jihad” means “struggle”. It can be an inner struggle to understand the world or to change the world or to understand God’s plan in the context of current event (these are only examples). It (jihad)could also take the form of political struggle, or violent extremism for political or religious or ideological reasons. “Mujahideen” is a group of people engaged in jihad but it doesn’t necessarily imply inner or outer struggle. Most commonly though a person who is referred to as a “mujahid” is a person who is fighting to correct something they view as anti-Islam (again this is not necessarily violent, but often is - however an imam who preaches tolerance and actively condemns violence may also be catergorised as a mujahid).

      And you don’t have to be muslim to go nuts and lose the plot because 1.5 million people have been murdered (it’s not like Manhattan is the birth place or the only residence of human beings!!!).

 

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The Punch is moving house

The Punch is moving house

Good morning Punchers. After four years of excellent fun and great conversation, this is the final post…

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

I have had some close calls, one that involved what looked to me like an AK47 pointed my way, followed…

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

In a world in which there are still people who subscribe to the vile notion that certain victims of sexual…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: Hasbro, go straight to gaol, do not pass go

Tim says:

They should update other things in the game too. Instead of a get out of jail free card, they should have a Dodgy Lawyer card that not only gets you out of jail straight away but also gives you a fat payout in compensation for daring to arrest you in the first place. Instead of getting a hotel when you… [read more]

From: A guide to summer festivals especially if you wouldn’t go

Kel says:

If you want a festival for older people or for families alike, get amongst the respectable punters at Bluesfest. A truly amazing festival experience to be had of ALL AGES. And all the young "festivalgoers" usually write themselves off on the first night, only to never hear from them again the rest of… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

Superman needs saving

Superman needs saving

Can somebody please save Superman? He seems to be going through a bit of a crisis. Eighteen months ago,… Read more

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