Labor all at sea on eve of asylum seeker report

nihonin says:

07:38am | 13/08/12

‘Nauru is not a long term solution. They’re a tiny island country without the infrastructure to cope with all this.’

sunny, but Australia does?  Where is this infrastructure here that you speak or or do you mean the mean motels we’re putting the prepaids into.

Andrew says:

08:06pm | 12/08/12

Again sunny, they want the refugees there, they have said so, it would help there economy.

sunny says:

04:26pm | 12/08/12

Nauru is not a long term solution. They’re a tiny island country without the infrastructure to cope with all this. We dropped this problem onto Nauru out of thin air - they didn’t have any refugee problems before J Howard and co gave them one.

“Welcome to Nauru, try to ignore those few thousand people over there behind that chicken wire” shouldn’t have to be their tourism slogan. The Malaysia solution will among other things give Nauru their island back.

ronny jonny says:

01:34pm | 12/08/12

Thats not as far fetched as you might think. The greens policy is to process them in Indonesia and then fly them to Australia. They are nuts.

Kingy says:

12:25pm | 12/08/12

@ Mouse
Gillard will look at what the panei suggests but Abbot won’t because of domestic political considerations.
The Malaysian solution becomes viable if the law is changed but that needs bipartisan support. Unlikely for domestic political reasons.
Nothing has been put to the Senate as yet and a DD requires it to have done so twice and been rejected twice.
When the PM, Julia Gillard, leaves politics she will have a pension. I believe former and subsequent PM’s will also have pensions - ask J Howard and Janette.

Mouse says:

05:03pm | 11/08/12

The out-sourced committee’s report will support the Malaysia solution. Paris Aristotle is a refugee advocate who not only hates the Pacific solution but supports the Malaysia solution. Angus Houston is a long time acquaintance of gillard’s, she even said that she was a “little bit in love with him” too! Guess where his leanings will be.  The third “committee” member is Michael L’Estrange, former Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Secretary.  Am not sure where he stands.
gillard has said she will look at whatever the commmittee come up with, probably as long as it is the Malaysia solution! The fact that the Malaysia solution, as it stands, is seen as illegal by the Australian High Court doesn’t seem to have sunk in to gillard’s brain yet. If she can’t get her new proposal through parliament, her co-horts, the Greens, don’t support her solution either mind you, that will be twice she hasn’t gotten through. Does that mean a double dissolution will be called? More than likely not I would imagine. gillard wants to be in the Lodge as long as possible and a DD will almost surely see her out on her arse.  Oh well, at least she will have her $600,000/year pension to keep her and Timmy warm! 
It is all a bit sad really, that our PM can’t do her job, out-sources it so she can go on holidays and she still holds the position!  Thank goodness she is not in a private practice because, if she did that there, she wouldn’t have a job to come back to after her holidays.      :o)

Bruce says:

06:54pm | 12/08/12

Samantha: Just who is the PM and the current federal government ?  By your statement is must be Tony Abbott and the Liberals. Shame on Juliar for not being able to govern and make simple decisions ! However, nothing new in that statement.

Herald says:

07:49pm | 11/08/12

Another boat missing and presumed sunk. Good, a decent solution at last. Sink them all if they refuse to turn back. They do have a homeland and relatives to go back to. Meet their aggression with aggression.

nihonin says:

06:05pm | 11/08/12

‘Is there nothing this man won’t do for political advantage?
Shame on you Abbott.’

Yes Tony Abbott, shame on you for being in opposition and not being able to introduce policy that would stop these deaths due to Labor policy or lack there of (geez you labor sycophants are amusing).  Also shame on the Labor members/sycophants for blaming the wrong person and party for the total failure of your party being unable to govern.

pa_kelvin says:

04:19pm | 11/08/12

Goody-two-shoes Gillard is not to blame? It’s all Abbott’ fault. Get a life!

Gregg says:

08:40am | 13/08/12

” Australians generally do not understand “
You continually belittle the understanding and comprehension of Australians and yet you continually raise numbers without substance.

If there is a catastrophy in Asia, natural or otherwise and a future tusnami of refugees, nothing Australia does for its image will stop a flow to Australia and that is something you seem unable to understand Doc.

Shane says:

08:40pm | 11/08/12

I agree. If I was the leadership of China, I would create some confected internal political strife and then send 50 million “refugees” to Australia. Instant solution to foreign investment restrictions and having to buy all the resources we’re currently making a motza from selling.

Kingy says:

05:50pm | 11/08/12

A bizzare posting, John. Your view of the world is preumably framed by the comfy cottage you live in and by a lifestyle that would be the envy of the world. Good luck to you and to the millions of refugees who yearn for somewhere safe to live, raise their kids and have a future.Have a nice day for millions won’t.

vox says:

02:55pm | 11/08/12

John. If “..nobody is doing nothing..”, then obviously somebody is doing “something”. And why the CAPITALS? Does that make your argument,(?), more acceptable to the sane people?
I should not have bothered.

thatmosis says:

01:56pm | 12/08/12

They used to but forgot the words,LOL.
Its Abbott’s fault, like its his fault that the big bang happened and the dinosaurs died and that Labor couldn’t operate a can opener without forming a committee of Union hacks and hangers on to debate the question for months, cost the tax payer millions and then get someone else to do it..

Brizben says:

08:46am | 13/08/12

But moving the refugee processing to Malaysia doesn’t mean anything if the refugees are not being processed. Why move the refugees anywhere? How long is the queue in Indonesia and Malaysia? Why not process the refugees in Indonesian camps?

“Abbott cannot have this issue resolved”
Surely there has to be a point where the debate moves from politics to criminal negligence.

sunny says:

01:17pm | 12/08/12

@Brizben - it’s my understanding that the refugees travel down through Malaysia to Indonesia. If the processing center was in Malaysia then they will either queue there, or be sent back there, discouraging others from making the trip from Malaysia to Indonesia. I agree it is the lowest ebb of Australian politics - Abbott cannot have this issue resolved, he’s lost the carbon tax doom stick, the asylum seeker issue is now the main stick that he beats the government over the head with.

@Richard “But Indonesia is a Sovereign country, and an emerging middle-power in its own right. We can’t make them set up an off-shore regional processing centre if they don’t want to, and honestly that is the last thing that they actually want.”

Nauru is also a sovereign country. They are a tiny island (population 10,000) with limited resources and infrastructure. Swamping them with thousands of refugees who sit for many months and even years waiting to be processed is the last thing that Nauru actually wants. What would we think if Australia was used as a processing centre for two million people on behalf of some other much larger nation. Sending a thousand people to Nauru is like sending two million people to Australia.

Dr B S Goh, Australia in Asia says:

08:31pm | 11/08/12

@ Richards. Your link to the news story that China and USA are sliding into a war in the South China Sea is very worrying. Then Australia will be sucked into it. We can then expect hundreds of thousands of boatpeople feeing for safety to Australia from Asia then. If so what should Australia do ???

andye says:

07:51pm | 11/08/12

@Ben - “You and your ilk love these debates. It gives you the chance to show everyone how righteous you are, to preen in front of your peers and to declare your moral purity.”

I like how instead of attacking the content of brizben’s beliefs directly, you say that he only holds them for vapid stupid reasons. Weak.

Richard says:

07:09pm | 11/08/12

I wrote a very good reply to your comment this morning Ben, but the moderators didn’t publish it . I’ll re-iterate it because its important that it be said.

Ben, your comment stinks of affected moral sanctimony and grand piety, but ignores the real world implications of the current situation. Your solution would seem to be to set up a “off-shore regional processing centre” in Indonesia, which, in practice would as as a gigantic magnet for every low-life scammer, scum-bag and opportunist this side of Baghdad to head for like a beacon.

But Indonesia is a Sovereign country, and an emerging middle-power in its own right. We can’t make them set up an off-shore regional processing centre if they don’t want to, and honestly that is the last thing that they actually want.

What they actually want for for us to bloody well fix the hole in OUR legislation that is drawing in all these fortune-seekers and free-loaders (which places tremendous strain on THEIR system, even moreso than ours) and solve the problem once and for all, just like Howard did.

Their President, Bambang Yudhoyono (who has been an excellent friend of Australia’s) has articulated this to our leaders numerous times, yet inexplicably, they STILL refuse to solve the problem.

We really owe it to Indonesia to fix up the problems in our asylum seeker legislation to stop the boats, which cause more problems to their society than it does to ours. Especially after the enormous insult of the cattle trade ban we idiotically imposed on them last year.

We MUST repair our relations with Indonesia and forge a closer alliance with them, it is critical, indeed, a matter of life and death for our entire country: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/navy-prepares-for-a-conflict-more-likely-than-we-think/story-e6frg6z6-1226447808882

Kingy says:

05:43pm | 11/08/12

Well said, Brizben. At last a voice of reason in this poisonous debate. Some of the other comments on this site are truly disturbing and difficult accept as coming from Australians

Ben says:

05:26pm | 11/08/12

>>I don’t know if I can take the trauma of the boat people debate restarting. It is the lowest ebb of Australian politics ever. After the last debate I came away despising both Gillard and Abbott. I dread the cesspool of hate and racism the refugee debate opens up.

Come now, don’t tell fibs. You and your ilk love these debates. It gives you the chance to show everyone how righteous you are, to preen in front of your peers and to declare your moral purity. Points are awarded for motherhood statements and for denouncing the “racism” of your countrymen.

Arthur says:

08:54am | 11/08/12

Rudd. He’s the clown that changed it, and he’s the clown many in the party are looking towards to save them….

Too funny is this pack of idiots. We need to not make the mistake and give LNP a majority.

Australia needs a new party.

Kingy says:

04:38pm | 12/08/12

@ Mack
Sorry I didn’t get back earlier but I’ve been out for the day.
Your nephew seems a likely lad - you must be very proud of him. Fancy him knowing that
Unemployment is 5.2%
Inflation is1.2%
Unemployment is 5.2%
The mortgage rate 6.85%
And only 3 years old too. I bet he has other ideas for you to get upto speed with - check him out more often,eh?
Did he tell you as well that this is the first time all this great news has come together since 1964.
I bet the little rascal probably told you last week that there was no need for Julia to backflip over the economy,,,,As I said a bright lad
Have a good day.

Mack says:

09:04am | 12/08/12

I have a 3 year old nephew named Kingy - is that you Kingy?

You certainly sound as naive as a 3 year old.

Kingy says:

05:33pm | 11/08/12

By your sound logic then she has never had the need to do a backflip!

Andrew says:

07:43pm | 12/08/12

Neslihahn if we werent wasting millions and millions of dollars on people trying to come here illegally then we might be able to concentrate on some of the other issues you are concerned with. Seriously how can you believe opening our borders is going to solve our problems. And stopping the boats did work before, anyone that wont admit that is even so one eyed its ridiculous or not capable of reading facts.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

10:05am | 12/08/12

@ NESLIHAN KUROSAWA. I respect your concerns for humanity. I am in favour of increasing our refugee intake to 20,000 a year. I am NOT against refugees per se.

As a cummnity leader I personally helped many of the refugees from Vietnam and Cambodia who escaped to the nearest country generally and did not fly to other countries and take boats to come to Australia.

What we have now are boatpeople who have hijacked our refugee program. The Hon Bowen has recently that the majority of ex-refugees in his constituency are against the current crop of boatpeople.

My opposition to the boatpeople is based on the belief that it poses the greatest threat to the security of Australia. We must destroy the universal perception in Asia that our borders are open and we welcome boatpeople. We must not be so naive on this.

India has a 2,400 km high fence border with Bangladesh and border guards have orders to shoot to kill and hundreds die each year.

Our borders must be secured or we are at greak risk in a most dangerous neighbourhood, namely Asia.

NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

08:50am | 12/08/12

Hi there,

I do appreciate all your replies! However,  I do have one question for you all ” was it very different in 1980’s when almost every one talked about “keeping Asians out and keeping Australia white, exclusively”? And right now Asians seem to be the only group who can truly see themselves as true winners out of this whole migration issue as a whole!

I just wanted to know though back in those days if Australia did not take any refugees from Cambodia, Vietnam and China on a humanitarian basis? Looking of all arrivals in the last 30 years, they all seem to be from Asian background.  And the funny thing we don’t even ask questions about the very reasons how they all managed to arrive at our door step on limited visas but somehow they all managed to get permanent residency and an Australian passport, just the same.

When most Australians are so uncomfortable with the idea of being taken over by Middle Eastern or Muslim nationalities very openly.  The picture is very different when we look at the actual demographics, surprisingly we discover that it goes something like this, white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%! 

Which group in particular happens to be the actual majority and the minority?  When a small boat load of people do arrive on our shores, it does not even make it into the demographics of Australia.

In conclusion I just wanted to say that asylum seeker’s debate is always   a hot election issue and tends stir very strong emotions of keeping Australia for Australians only!  Which happens to be fine.  But why not assume that our politicians tend to use this particular issue as a last resort to winning elections in the very last moment,  just because it seems to be very practical, indeed.

I would much concentrate other issues such as our living standards, inflation rates, our buying power, job opportunities as well. When even the Aboriginal population is somewhere with that other %1, there is really no cause for any kind of alarm or discontent!  Kind regards.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

05:08pm | 11/08/12

@ the fed up expat, Clearly you are also living in Asia and you are also worrying for the future of Australia. If we do not stop the boatpeople Australia’s future is at serious risk.

If our political leaders in ALP and Green Party cannot think for themselves, then PM Gillard who think very highly of USA should just follow the USA on the boatpeople from Cuba. All boatpeople from Cuba are either returned to Cuba or go to a third country. USA has this very effective in place since 1996, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy

the fed up expat says:

03:14pm | 11/08/12

Sorry NESLIHAN.  John Howard stopped them if I recall. And Thailand has no problem towing the Rohinga illegal boats back out ot sea and pointing them back into the direction of Myanmar. Even the Japanese have no problem in putting illegals back on the plane to whence they came. Hong Kong had a terrible illegal Vietnamese situation back in the early 1990s and guess what they forcibly marched them onto aircraft at Kai Tak and flew them back home. The UN still owes us millions of dollars in what it cost our government here to house feed and process that problem.  I can’ t see any reason to ever return to Australia unless this immigration problem is sorted.  The sooner the Australian people have the final say in who comes in the better. Australia is being turned into a dumping ground by stealth for every religion and ethnic type that is incompatible to our Christian ideals. ‘Good bye Blinky Bill’  John Williams wrote in a song many years ago how true it is. Goodbye to the Australian way of life as we knew it. if this problem is not sorted,  although with the breeding rates of these illegals they will outpace the cane toads in our childrens lifetime. It is probably too little too late no matter what ‘fix’ is agreed upon.

CD says:

10:11am | 11/08/12

I’m confused.  According to you it is inhumane to send them back once they reach the magical Australian watermark but not inhumane to leave them in the ports from where they sail.
Huh?

JoniM says:

09:25am | 11/08/12

“Stopping the boats has not worked in the past! “

Rubbish ! Don’t try to re-write history !
The solution is simple if you really have the will to act on it !
It worked under the Howard government because they removed some of the magnets that dragged people onto the boats to get to the “land of milk and honey”. Offshore processing, TPV’s and threat of towing back boats did work. If you really want to ensure the stopping of the boats further, you can remove the final magnet, by repealing our UNHCR signatory. There is a reason why my most Asian countries refuse to be UNHCR signatories and that is they realise that it acts as a magnet to draw illegals to their country !
Australia should determine its own immigration and asylum seeker policies not be held to ransom by the impracticalities of an outdated and designed for Europe asylum seeker convention.
The solution is simple but does anyone in government really want a solution ?

Arthur says:

08:46am | 11/08/12

....................“brainstorm ideas”...............

There’s a problem.

True Blue Ozzie says:

07:42pm | 12/08/12

We found the truth, shame Gilliard is so stupid see cant see it!

Terry2 says:

02:47pm | 11/08/12

Nick, isn’t that the point I’m making, my politics don’t matter a fig but we have an honourable and capable Australian in Angus Houston trying to find a way through so let’s all listen to him and his panel when their report is delivered on Monday. He may very well favour Nauru and TPV’s and he may favour Malaysia but the least we can do is listen to what he has to say and then find a concensus that will allow us to move forward and bring this ugly and dangerous trade in humanity to an end before there is another tragedy at sea..

morrgo says:

11:19am | 11/08/12

Inquiries by this government are rigged in the best Yes Minister fashion.  Just like the Fair Work review, the Houston inquiry will recommend what is government policy already.

What the Houston inquiry should answer (and will not) is why our refugee acceptance rate is so much higher than other countries?  Plus a few other pull factors that the Indonesians keep pointing at and our government keeps dismissing.

Nick says:

11:02am | 11/08/12

Terry, not sure what side of politics you sit with but from memory it was Labor that dismantled policies that were working.No boats and one person in detention when Rudd took over.It is now up to Labor and not the Liberals to either reinstate those policies or introduce ones that will pass the lower and upper house.If they can’t then they should call an election and let the people decide.

acotrel says:

08:41am | 11/08/12

What did MIng do to Australia when he signed us up to that treaty ?

Gregg says:

04:14pm | 12/08/12

@Stephen
For starters have a look at Business visas - http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/business/ and depending on your situation you may want to invest in an immigration agent.

The immigration department much to many peoples surprise are not there to be advisors or agents themselves and specifically have the role of running a system with many different regulations.
Google George Lombard if you like.

Yes Keith, some visa applications are not so much rocket science but you do need to meet the requirements under whatever visa is applied for and then with permanent residency, citizenship is another four years on.

Keith Hammersmith says:

04:37pm | 11/08/12

@ stephen,  then your doing it wrong. My wife from the USA just got her citizenship, its not that hard.

dovif says:

03:43pm | 11/08/12

Those people will remain dole bludgers and will be ALP supporters for life

The ALP invited these people in and want them to continue to vote for the ALP, the ALP is laughing for Decades, while the rest of Australia again pay for another ALP policy failure

Stephen says:

11:17am | 11/08/12

Funny enough I’m a Kiwi who has lived in Australia for over 10 years employed over 30 Australians for many years at a time.  And paid the federal government millions in business tax from my IT export business (something I can run from anywhere).  I called immigration to help get me Permanent residency and then a move towards citizenship as I consider myself a Aussie now, have a house and wife here. 
Guess what?  they have absolutely no means for me as a successful business person with no formal education to immigrate to Australia and become a citizen. 

Boy they sure don’t like the Kiwi’s wanting to become Aussies citizens.  Its easier for these boat people.

Gregg says:

04:20pm | 12/08/12

Doc., do not go believing all you read in an article anywhere on immigration as there are many regulations and very detailed requirements.

In the case of a parent and child, eligibility of the child will be dependant on a number of matters, one the age and someone over 18 is no longer considered a child and needs to apply for immigration based on their own situation and not a family connection as with refugees.
Anybody applying for immigration independently or through sponsorship needs to meet skilled criteria.
You can educate yourself more via http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/ and you may appreciate that the immigration system needs regulations for all and not having them tailored to specific cases.

Mack says:

09:06pm | 11/08/12

Gillard doesn’t care how many of these freeloaders hit our shores - she knows someone else will be cleaning up her mess.

211 ‘asylum seekers’ (complete with designer label runners and laptops)  = 211 x $10,000 ‘welcome packs’ = another $2,110,000,000 of taxpayer money. And we’ve had over 7,000 of them this year under Gillard’s awesome border protection policy.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

07:53pm | 11/08/12

Too right. The Hon Bowen is under great pressure

I am angry to read in Perth Now that an experienced British soldier whose mother lives in Perth cannot migrate to Perth because he is deemed unqualified. I appeal to the Australian Army to recruit him and sponsor him to Australia ahead of the boatpeople. See: http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/hero-soldier-with-wa-family-denied-visa/story-e6frg13u-1226444975789

The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

06:30pm | 11/08/12

ronny jonny….Right on the money !  There is now only one way to unlock the deadlock…take the matter to the people . We must be an international laughing stock…..the smugglers are making a fortune on the back of Australian government’s stupidity.
It is only a matter of time before we see a mass amada of boats carrying hundreds of thousands of people who have decided the Australian ” gravy boat ” is the way to the land of ” milk and honey .” When this happens and it will as sure as the sun rises , we will be in no position to control , let alone turn back , wave after wave of opportunists.
Call an election…. let the voter settle this vexatious matter….before we are landed in a far greater mess of our own government’s making.

Mayday says:

12:11pm | 11/08/12

And they are still plugging the “Malaysia Solution” which was tossed by the High Court….go figure!?