Tony and Kevin are still fighting about it. John was never really interested in it. Paul only ever flirted with the idea. As for Bob, Malcolm, Gough, and all those who went before them, the concept never crossed their minds.

The toughest juggling act. Illustration: John Tiedemann.

It is almost 110 years since Australia became a Federation, and in that time our failure to introduce paid maternity leave can best be explained by recalling the first names of those who have run the nation.

Australia had no founding mothers, only founding fathers. There was no Henrietta Parkes in 1901 and since then there has been no Paula Keating. Despite the growing representation of women in politics over the past 20 years, the combative character of our political system often owes more to the 19th century than the 21st.

Even on an innately feminine question such as maternity leave, our political leaders have turned it into a blokey display of one-upmanship, a my-package-is-bigger-than-yours exercise which could result in a deadlock which leaves working mothers with no paid leave at all.

There are things governments do as a matter of course which reflect decades of male domination.

The 6 o’clock swill was abolished as a matter of urgency more than 30 years ago.

The Defence Department receives all the money it needs, largely without question, to buy choppers and submarines regardless of whether they actually work.

Viagra was listed immediately on the PBS, even though there’s an obvious upside to that one, so to speak, for the girls.

We have even seen our government make the bizarre decision to get into the home insulation business, make a total hash of it, and blow $450 million undoing the mess.

It was the political equivalent of that great male tradition of going to Bunnings for a spot of DIY, failing to read the instructions, then paying a professional to do the job properly.

But when it comes to the most important period in our lives, the birth of a child, governments have still done nothing to help families through those first months of emotional stress and financial hardship.

Hardliners who say childbirth is a private choice and not the business of government are overlooking one key point. Our government is swimming in cash - and it’s our cash. And most reasonable people, be they parents or childless, would be happy to see a chunk of that money used to cover the wages of working mums, with the important proviso that assistance is also offered to mums who choose not to work.

And any childless person who begrudges the use of “their” taxes to help families should ask themselves this question - when they’re old, in hospital or a nursing home, isn’t it this generation of kids who’ll be holding their hands and bringing them their medicine?

In these enlightened times few people dispute the right of mothers to work. The term “career woman” now sounds like the quaint old insult it clearly was. While there’s a valid debate about the impact of full-time childcare on babies, working mums are no longer regarded as neglectful mums. And as anyone with a mortgage in a big Australian city knows, it’s not like they’ve got much choice these days anyway.

This modern reality should result in a consensus-driven approach where both sides of politics work towards a permanent and effective scheme. Instead, it’s a depressingly familiar case of may the best man win. We may all be losers again as a result.

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137 comments

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    • acker says:

      06:12am | 05/05/10

      Create a compulsory salary payment component like superannuation and both working parents can access it for time off when they have kids. Both can take time off if they want. If you dont have kids it rolls back into your supeannuation. User pays.

    • Ex Teacher says:

      07:05am | 05/05/10

      Not a bad idea, although it would may be easier to have a higher superannuation contribution and allow access to your super for maternity/paternity leave.  Doing the sums, govt would still probably have to assist lower income families.

    • acker says:

      07:58am | 05/05/10

      @ex teacher..hate to sound cold hearted but you make your own bed in life as far as the job you do and salary you earn. Rather than another government handout perhaps lower income workers could contribute more salary to the scheme, as people do with their super.  At the end of the day if you want to have kids you need to be prepared to pay for it, and we need to move away from making it attractive for welfare dependent types to have kids to enhance their pensions.

    • Macca says:

      09:05am | 05/05/10

      @acker, I wouldn’t say the job you do and the salary you earn is entirely an individual’s choice.

      Despite a university education, many professional engineers and accountants are going to start at the very bottom, it will take a bit of time to reach 6 figures and not every University educated employee is going to get there.

      Multiply this by individuals who struggled to finish school and / or are covered by EBAs / awards or are on the minimum wage, and the “choice” aspect seems somewhat irrelevant.

      I can understand the concerns that people are making decisions they can’t pay for… but then again, not all children are the result of a decision, well not the intended result anyway…

    • Scott Glennon says:

      11:19am | 05/05/10

      @acker,

      I think your idea is fantastic.

    • Callipygos says:

      12:14pm | 05/05/10

      I think it is a great idea, however, most people tend to have kids in the early years of their careers, meaning that their income is not going to have been very high. Therefor, the money set aside will not be very much. Yet people will blindly rely on it, thinking it will be enough, and they will end up running short.
      That is not to say that I am advocating maternity leave. I don’t need employers to discriminate against me, which is what will happen if I apply for a job in my child bearing years.

    • Former snag says:

      01:38pm | 05/05/10

      @ acker, for once i disagree with you.

      Between 1945 & 1972, families lived with 1 wage/salary, had more children & a happier, healthier, more successful, life style. Working class families accessed, what were arguably the best public health/education systems the world has ever known.

      Middle class families could afford private health insurance/schools, also with double the number of children. I don’t ever remember hearing about a shortage of skilled workers.

      Heaps of people went to TAFE or UNI. In fact the only thing, coming close to, that type of discussion i can remember, was in fact, the exact opposite, when Hawke/Keating said, “we have too many doctors already & too many more, graduating from UNI”.

      They threatened to withhold medicare numbers from doctors graduating that year & oh yeah, they soon thereafter “reformed” our entire education system, (but with particular attention to UNI medicine schools) which has been failing miserably or printing visas, ever since.

      Throughout the “Howard” boom time years, the red/green/getup/labour coalition, while in opposition, whinged from the side lines, incessantly, about, “Middle Class Welfare” maybe that was because there were rivers of revenue pouring in & handouts are always popular?

      In this post GFC world, can we still afford a handout mentality for everybody, its not just the poor you know.

      There is middle class welfare? corporate? farming? my uninsured house, built on a flood plain got flooded (who could have predicted that)? drought assistance for farmers operating in semi desert country? upper class welfare, in the form of a heavily subsidised YARTZ? my non fire safe, uninsured house, surrounded by overgrown bush, devoid of any grazing animals, burnt down, (go figure)????????

      Left wing ideology & social engineering, progressively introduced since 1972 is almost all of it, a well documented scientifically proven failure.

      What were we doing between 1945 & 1972 that appears to have been working? Whatever we have been doing since then appears to be, not working anywhere near as well.

      Combine 1945 to 1972 society with 2010 technology & you might have had a world superpower. What are we now besides bankrupt morally, ethically, as well as moving towards, financially? The Greek government is politically identical to the red/green/getup/labour coalition, anybody want a few more terms of “drunken sailor spending, handouts” so we can end up like Greece?

    • Scott Glennon says:

      02:22pm | 05/05/10

      @Former snag,

      It’s not the 40’s anymore dude… Debt leads to growth…
      If you’d read acker’s following message it outlined that the to be parents would be required to contribute payments to a birth leave scheme.
      I like this idea because it places the onus back on our families to become financially strengthened before considering having a child. Australia needs to grow it’s balls back, and that’s about all we need from the 40’s.

    • acker says:

      02:42pm | 05/05/10

      It’s not my idea I heard someone bring it up on APAC or Sky one day (I think it was Reserve Bank Govenor Glenn Stephens)...I just thought it sounded like a good idea.

    • Proudly Nullagravida says:

      03:08pm | 07/05/10

      @acker - it is an idea that has been presented by reserrcher Jessica Brown. We already self-fund social policy like superannuation so why not paid parental leave? Oh of course not. Silly me. Modern parents must have the big house, the latest gadgets , dinners out, holidays away and quality time with the kids as well as a fast-track to workplace promotion (or else it is dees-crimmy-nashun) and someone ANYONE must pay except them.

    • Dave Sag says:

      07:14am | 05/05/10

      As an employer I believe my company, Carbon Planet, has a duty to ensure that the world is a better place because of our actions.  A part of that is ensuring that when a staff member, or their spouse, gives birth both parents get time to spend with the new baby, and, if the staff member is the primary carer, they get three months of paid leave to ensure that the proper familial bonds are in place.  We allow staff to take that three months paid over a total of 12 months if they so wish and guarantee their job.

      By doing this we contribute to the whole of society; it’s what I call a positive externality.  And guess what, the numbers add up.  Our staff appreciate it so we get a much lower staff churn than many other firms.  And in the long run a society with better kids is good for business. All of our businesses.  And to be frank this policy costs us very little in real dollar terms.  It’s not like staff are rushing out to get pregnant every week after all, though we do seem to be a rather fertile lot grin

      We have always regarded reasonable parental leave as a good thing; and the arguments against it are just miserly.  If your employer doesn’t care enough out their staff, or about the future of the country, then shame on them.  Personally I’d have liked to extend this to 12 months paid leave for the primary carer, and six months for the other parent but that was deemed too radical, although that’s pretty much the standard in the UK and Europe and I don’t see their industry grinding to a halt any time soon.

    • Observer says:

      03:58pm | 07/05/10

      “although that’s pretty much the standard in the UK and Europe and I don’t see their industry grinding to a halt any time soon. “

      Say hello to Greece. 119 days paid maternity leave at 100%. Yeah, they’re doing just great.

      Making more people will certainly make us a Carbon Planet.

    • Barry says:

      07:33am | 05/05/10

      We already do that. It’s called income tax, Einstein.

    • Sustain Populator says:

      08:01am | 05/05/10

      I hope the Maternity Leave and Payment only covers two children.

    • watchingwithinterest says:

      08:22am | 05/05/10

      Well if we take the two policy extremes and they negotiate something in the middle I think that it will be a pretty good deal.  Hopefully Mr Rudd will not take his my way or the highway attitude into the negotiation.
      Whilst I don’t like the idea of a ‘levy’ on companies under the liberal policy, people have expenses that are generally based on dual incomes and with interest rates raising and the average home price over 1/2 million dollars in sydney if the government is serious about reducing the financial stress of a new baby in the family then I don’t think that the minimum wage cuts it.

    • Othello Cat says:

      03:28pm | 07/05/10

      “...reducing the financial stress of a new baby in the family “

      Don’t have a baby OR do not have the big house. No financial stress.  You can’t have it all.

    • Rockasaurous says:

      08:24am | 05/05/10

      I just hope Abbot pulls his head in and supports Labours maternity scheme rather than continue pushing the ridiculous one he tabled.  I really want to vote liberal at the next election but that monster policy Abbot put forward is untenable.  It is just not liberal.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      08:52am | 05/05/10

      Rockasaurous :  Hmmm , i doubt that you have ever voted Liberal or that you intend to in the future .  Just keep in mind that it was not Liberal policy that Abbott put forward , it was a policy proposal . Wait for the detailed policy release on the Coalition’s Maternity Leave scheme.
      You will find that it is a refined and universally acceptable policy .

    • persephone says:

      10:14am | 05/05/10

      I wouldn’t hold your breath, but.

      So that’s another thing that I’ve been calling a Liberal policy that I can now cross off the list. I think that means we’re back to two.

    • Mark says:

      10:38am | 05/05/10

      Yeh about the same Labor is left with after all the reversals. Umm actually do Labor have two? Tossing money at the states for Health to shore up electoral standings I guess is a policy, well a Labor one anyway - spend a truckload and get nothing in return.

      Now ummm..for the second….errr…...batts/no, ETS & the environment/no, childcare/no, watch schemes/no, immigration? does letting it get out of control then flip flop count/no, aboriginal housing etc/no

      Err help? Anyone got anything?

      Oh I don’t count the new tax on mining yet. Looks like cold feet Kevvie is at it again.

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/in-depth/kevin-rudd-may-give-ground-to-miners/story-fn5eo6td-1225862296505

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      06:27pm | 05/05/10

      persephone :  Seems Mark has taken care of your comment and handled it very well indeed.  Quite humourous as well . Thanks Mark.

    • persephone says:

      07:05pm | 05/05/10

      You didn’t notice the tax on smoking, the rise in super, the tax on mining profits, just to name three from this week?

      They’re all policies, sunshine.

      In one week, we come up with more of them that your lot does in two years.

    • persephone says:

      07:12pm | 05/05/10

      Oh - and of course, silly me - this article is about another.

    • Smankso says:

      08:51am | 05/05/10

      My husband and I are in our mid 30’s and as we live in Sydney we have a big mortgage. I have just had my second baby and am on mat leave ( my employer is one of the more ‘advanced’ and pays 8 weeks). We have saved up so I can have this time off, yet it will mean we go backwards financially for up to 18 - 2 years.  Combine that with the property prices in Sydney and we can say au revoir to a house any time soon. This is our choice, no problem.
      My point is - my husband and I have both paid taxes for many years.I have never claimed any govt assistance, other than the baby bonus of $5K. I have worked full time in a (highly competitive) industry and would like to continue contributing to the workplace for many years to come. For 3-4 years while I am in and out of the workforce, it would be ideal to receive some financial assistance to help bring up new individuals for this country (that will one day pay taxes). I think of the governments that WASTE so much money on silly projects that never see the light of day then don’t make a call on this scheme… its bloody infuriating.
      I see mothers dropping off their babies at childcare, and they HATE it. They want to be at home breastfeeding, looking after their children in the early days. To those people who say - its your choice - well, living without a sufficient income today is incredibly difficult. Don’t we want our population to increase from within?
      Tony has my vote on this one. He has pushed it further than any other. Kevin, I feel ashamed and sick that I voted for you in the last election. You let many mothers down when you ignored the majority of the Productivity Commission’s recommendations and put together that insulting scheme.
      I really do hope that Australia is in a better position by the time my children have kids.
      Pembo - great post - you’re obviously a parent.

    • Tim says:

      10:03am | 05/05/10

      It’s funny that your post was put straight above mine as you prove my point perfectly.
      Quote: “yet it will mean we go backwards financially for up to 18 - 2 years.  Combine that with the property prices in Sydney and we can say au revoir to a house any time soon. This is our choice, no problem.”

      Yet you then go on to say that you should get some financial assistance.
      Why?
      So you don’t go backwards financially?
      So you can buy a home?
      So your pre-baby lifestyle doesn’t change?

      If it’s “your choice, no problem”, then why do you expect others to pay for it?

    • A Bob says:

      10:55am | 05/05/10

      “My point is - my husband and I have both paid taxes for many years”

      Taxation is not a savings plan that you can draw on in the future.

    • MelD says:

      02:09pm | 05/05/10

      Actually A Bob it kind of is, what else are we paying all this money for if we never see any benefits????

    • JC says:

      03:53pm | 05/05/10

      Why is it that people whow write on things like this always have to say “you are obviously a parent” or if someone says something they dont agree with its ” do you have children?”
      guess what parents. this is a NATIONAL debate and affects us all, parents or not, we all pay taxes and we all get a say, even if its not what you want to hear.

    • A Bob says:

      04:02pm | 05/05/10

      MelD, no, it isn’t. A savings scheme implies that some part of the total assests of a bank or similar institution directly belongs to me. And subject to the terms under which I gave the money to the institution (term deposit, at call, etc) I can get it back. It has my name on it.

      My taxes are not given by me under any sort of contract, other than a general social contract, and that is subject to change in ways that I may have no say in. The money is surrendered to the state to be used for the needs of the state as they exist now. One of those present needs may be investment for the future, of course.

      I have no personal claim on any of it. I can only hope that tax payers of the future may see fit to elect governments that will continue the social support schemes that I might need, such as the pension. But I have no right to expect it, other than that which I can exercise in our democratic system. Assuming we still have one by that time.

    • Bureaucrat in Training says:

      11:34am | 06/05/10

      What about your choice not to have kids Tim? As you won’t contribute tax payers and people capable of taking care of you in your old age does that mean once you stop working you shouldn’t be entitled to other peoples hard work in raising productive members of society or will you only receive your pension/healthcare/roads etc from immigrants only. The rational that its peoples choice to have children also works in the opposite direction - if you choose to not have kids why should you enjoy the benefits that they bring to society in the future such as their taxes?

    • Deliberately Barren Jezebel says:

      03:39pm | 07/05/10

      “other peoples hard work in raising productive members of society “

      *rolls eyes* Oh no, the faux-altruism argument. Again. Never seen it before. No wonder you are a bureaucrat in training. Paid parental leave is the fait accompli and now you are inventing the “need” for the policy.

      If children are a social good, as you argue, the it does not make sense to inflate the *private wealth* of parents. Instead of giving 1 000 childed households $5 000 to spend as they wish, give $5 000 000 to a school or service aimed at children’s welfare.  Think of the cost-savings on admin and assurance that such a service will be far more effective, accountable and transparent than leaving it parents to raise this imagined “productive members of society “.

      But of course, modern parents do not that. They want to maintain their pre-child lifestyle and, envious of the childless, think it only fair to penalise the childless fiscally to do this to rectify some imagine inequity.

      Oh,and as a bureaucrat, you may want to turn your eyes to the contributions on child abuse stats. It sure ain’t the childless contributing to that ever-growing public policy burden. Sadly far too many parents are NOT working to make productive members of society.

    • Tim says:

      04:29pm | 07/05/10

      Bureaucrat in training,
      does that mean i get to stop paying the part of my tax that goes to pensions at present? Because its only fair that if i’m not going to get any benefit from future generation’s then I shouldn’t have to pay for past generation’s either right?
      Every generation pays for the previous, that’s the way it has always been. Suddenly now though, parents expect us not only to pay for past generations but also future. We would be effectively paying twice.

    • Tim says:

      08:55am | 05/05/10

      “And any childless person who begrudges the use of “their” taxes to help families should ask themselves this question - when they’re old, in hospital or a nursing home, isn’t it this generation of kids who’ll be holding their hands and bringing them their medicine?”

      Do you honestly believe that people will stop having children because there is no national maternity leave scheme?
      People have children for their own personal benefit not because of some sort of good social conscience, and they shouldn’t expect everyone else to pay for their own personal choices.
      Why is personal responsibility for your own choices such a hard ask these days?

    • Steve M says:

      10:25am | 05/05/10

      From reading your posts i realise this will be a waste of time but here goes.No kids, no society. We all pay taxes for services that we may not use but that is the cost of being part of a society. And its not purely for selfish benefit.There is a biological imperative to reproduce. It is how all species ensures its own survival. I would put forward personal benefit would be wanting to keep all of your time and resources for yourself. Surely that is the definition of selfish. Why is social obligation such a hard ask these days?

    • MelD says:

      11:17am | 05/05/10

      I agree, our Grandparents and Parents got by without the baby bonus or paid maternaty leave, my mothers father died when she was 11 so my grandmother was a single mother for 2 little girls and managed just swimmingly without the bonus, she didn’t even find out about war widows pension until years later.

      I intend to have 1 or 2 children, I am in a great job don’t get paid a lot but it’s enough to get by, I live 90 mins outside the city so prices are cheaper, my work will allow me 8 weeks maternity leave and after that I will be allowed to work from home part time, mainly as they love me at my job.  I will also most likely be a single parent.

      If the cost of living in Sydney or any major city is too much when you start a family, move. the air is cleaner outside the city anyway. move where the rates are cheaper. no brainer

    • d.jay.stevo says:

      12:42pm | 05/05/10

      MelD, did you put any thought into what you just said. So if someone wants children and cannot afford to live in Sydney and want time off work to have a child, should have their partner also leave their job, and move out of the city, to a place with lower rates, yet less employment? And then they can afford to have children?

    • MelD says:

      12:55pm | 05/05/10

      Um d.j Stevo - COMMUTE???????? I commute 2 hours on the train each way, I am not suggesting quitting the job for the partner, use the little grey cells in your head and think maybe people can take this quaint little system just in called PUBLIC TRANSPORT and then no quitting, no pay cut but hey cheaper rates!

    • Tim says:

      01:18pm | 05/05/10

      Steve,
      Maternity leave isn’t part of our social obligation it is the exact opposite. It is the giving of public money to individuals to increase their private wealth because of their own personal choices.
      A true social policy would be for the government to be spending more money for the direct benefit of the children. ie. extra money for schools and universities.
      Biological Imperative? Survival of the species?
      I won’t even bother with these because they are so patently ridiculous.

      As for your definition of selfish, yes wanting to keep all your time and resources to yourself would be selfish . And that is exactly what people who have children and expect other’s to pay for them do every day.
      They expect that their time and resources should not be affected by their personal decision to have children.
      Honestly can you think of one person you know who decided to have children because of the benefit to society the child would bring? No?

    • Deliberately Barren Jezebel says:

      01:47pm | 05/05/10

      @ Steve M

      “No kids, no society. ” Straw man.  No-one here has said that there ought to be no children.  People will have children whether they are handed cash or not. And humans are not an endanger species. 

      “There is a biological imperative to reproduce. ” Well then, if it is a “biological imperative” then there is no need to offer incentives to do it right?

      “We all pay taxes for services that we may not use .” Just because there are other cross-subsidies this does not justify redistibuting the income of the childless to the childed.

      “I would put forward personal benefit would be wanting to keep all of your time and resources for yourself.” *yawn* Argumentum ad hominim.  Not all people automatically become selfless angels just because they are parents. Trust me (or look up child abuse stats).

      I agree with Tim.

      That tired old furphy about kids looking after the childless in their dotage is becoming a tiresome refrain.  No one has children with mine or the nation’s future benefit in mind, so knock off the faux altruism.  If one conducts an activity that has a public benefit it does not mean that it ought to attract a subsidy. Children are, for the large part, private goods; that is parents enjoy a private benefit from having children that the childless do not enjoy. If one finds having a child(ren) a burden, then do not do it. It is not compulsory.

      *If* children are, as some attempt to venture, a public good, then children’s welfare should be met by social benefits and not private cash handouts to individual parents. Take for example the baby bonus; it is akin to giving 1,000 school children $5000 each to spend as they like rather than $5m given to a school.

      Those who argue against the notion that children are a private good and insist they are social goods are, incongruously, supporters of private welfare – in the form of taxpayer-funded cash handouts —for certain types of prefered parents (read: married, middle-class, white) and they seem to revile social support such as government supplied services for mothers and their children.
      It seems that the modern parent seems to want it all; they want their baby and the same discretionary spending power they had pre-baby and someone, anyone but them should pay for it.

      Taxpayer funded cash handouts to parents at the direct expense of non-parents is blatant socially-engineered middle-class welfare and bald vote-buying dressed up as social policy. 

      While most childless are fully cognisant and supportive of taxes that are used for bonafide social benefits for all facets of society, what I think miffs many childless people is that there are working poor childless whose taxes are being redirected to parents who are quite well off.  The childless are no way responsible for the arguable financial adversity said to be experienced by the child-burdened,  yet the entitlement-poisoned parental lobbyists see no moral shame in exacting financial adversity upon the childless because,  in their twisted logic , punishing them fiscally will address this invented or imagined inequity.

      I suspect that the childless have had a gutful being told that, because they have chosen not to have children, that it somehow imposes on them a perverse noblesse oblige so that the child-burdened, smugly extolling their faux altruism (taxpayers of the future and all that hoo-har), may maintain a post-natal DINK lifestyle.

    • Deliberately Barren Jezebel says:

      01:48pm | 05/05/10

      @d.jay.stevo , I would say on observation that Mel D has thought through things very well unlike so many entitlement-poisoned yuppie mummies today. She considered OPPORTUNITY COST.

    • d.jay.stevo says:

      01:51pm | 05/05/10

      MelD, COMMUTE??? Yes put the kids in child care an extra few hours, forget family time, perhaps pick up some nice greasy take-away on the way home, sounds like my dream family life!! And quaint little system, well that quaint little system here in Melbourne is extremely unreliable, as for cheaper rates, when the transport system doesn’t run on time, there’s a penalty fee for being late to the child care centre. Yes you have thought of everything, haven’t you?
      Paid parental leave encourages a more balanced family life, what you suggest is forgetting family life.
      What you do is a choice you make on your own and your childrens behalf, should we really have to follow what you believe, are we not entitled to some freedom of choice?

    • Elphaba says:

      02:17pm | 05/05/10

      It is how all species ensures its own survival.

      That might have been the case when the human race was young, but as it is, at the pointy end of civilisation, our enthusiastic breeding will lead to our demise just as much as not breeding.

      Don’t kid yourself.  We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

    • MelD says:

      02:32pm | 05/05/10

      d.j stevo,  your argument was that the partner would have to leave his job, I pointed out a solution, be a single income family if the money is so good. wow!

      If you live where it is cheaper the husband or higher income earner (for those stay at home dads) can commute to work and you can live on ONE income, it is easy to do.

      I live in NSW on the Central Coast and it is SOOOO much cheaper than in Sydney, Cityrail sux ass there are often delays as well not to mention inconsiderate people killing themselves at peak hour or the elderly that get sick and hold up the train until the paramedics arrive.  You were complaining about cost of living, I gave a possible solution and you argued that the partner would have to quit so I gave a solution to that too I think you just want to take everything way too much to heart

      Do any of the below sound familiar?

      Paranoid personality disorder.[2]

      It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
      1.excessive sensitivity to setbacks and rebuffs;
      2.tendency to bear grudges persistently, i.e. refusal to forgive insults and injuries or slights;
      3.suspiciousness and a pervasive tendency to distort experience by misconstruing the neutral or friendly actions of others as hostile or contemptuous;
      4.a combative and tenacious sense of personal rights out of keeping with the actual situation;
      5.recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding sexual fidelity of spouse or sexual partner;
      6.tendency to experience excessive self-importance, manifest in a persistent self-referential attitude;
      7.preoccupation with unsubstantiated “conspiratorial” explanations of events both immediate to the patient and in the world at large.
      Includes:
      expansive paranoid, fanatic, querulant and sensitive paranoid personality (disorder)

    • Othello Cat says:

      08:43pm | 05/05/10

      “I would put forward personal benefit would be wanting to keep all of your time and resources for yourself. Surely that is the definition of selfish”

      How jealous must you be of our freedom to hallucinate perks and privileges that you can only dream of in your child-burdened state? Our pays are already diminished with the burden of taxes we pay, like it or not, to fund the many deductions/handouts that you and your burden of offspring enjoy at our expense. Congratulations on buying into a pervasive myth that our lives are rife with hedonistic delights. Clearly it only makes sense to you that penalising the childless will rectify this imagined inequity.

      So, I’m selfish, am I? Yes indeed, I’m so selfish that I can’t bear the thought of adding another little superconsumer to an environment already stretched far beyond its capacity. Shame on me for refusing to inflict the hereditary illness I carry onto an unsuspecting child. How dare I opt out of parenthood when I too might enjoy the guilty pleasure of pumping out little DNA replicas to ensure my “immortality”—it’s not as if I’m personally capable of making a contribution to society through my own hard work and creativity. I’m not taking the easy way out—imagine that.

    • Shane says:

      08:58am | 05/05/10

      Nice article David with interesting points. Although I don’t agree that the money should go to mothers who don’t work outside of the home, I completely agree that the time for dithering is over.

      Word of warning though - considering you’ve decided to discuss “women’s issues”, stand by for the glut of the enraged woe is me-style posts from soceity’s new victims: white males.

    • AdamC says:

      09:41am | 05/05/10

      The silly ‘battle of the sexes’ presentation of this article was pretty sad and unnecessary – not up to the usual Penbo standard.

      On the issue, I note you support paid mat leave with provision for non-working mums as well. That sounds a lot like the baby bonus to me. Yet most of the media has been ridiculously hostile to that initiative. I support assistance to new families (at least while our fertility rate is below replacement levels), but I don’t support benefits solely for families where both parents work.

      It seems to me the effect of a lot of benefits to working mums (or primary carers, in this modern age of ours) serves to keep people in the workforce when their participation is, at best, economically marginal. Why bother? Unless you are a GDP extremist, like Ken Henry and Kevin Rudd (who seem obsessed with getting everyone out into the paid workforce so their contribution can be measured as economic output) it is fine for one parent to stay at home if that is best for them.

      (Incidentally, I actually regard the touted economic benefits of getting primary carers into the workforce as a bit of a con. In most cases, all it serves to do is to transform the caring function into an economic transaction – requiring a government subsidy, no less – that can be caught in GDP figures. For example, let’s say ‘Joanne’ rejoins the workforce and drops Chloe and Joshua at daycare. In many cases, the income she earns will only cover the cost of this childcare with the addition of government subsidies. Therefore, if you were to count the opportunity cost of her staying at home, everyone – including the public purse – is worse off. Of course, this doesn’t apply if Joanne is a QC or brain surgeon or something, but there aren’t many of those.)

    • Jenni says:

      09:45am | 05/05/10

      Is Eric having a day off? I would have expected him to weigh in by now wink

    • julia says:

      10:00am | 05/05/10

      I went to a baby shower a few weeks ago (girl, 2kg both mother and baby doing well, thanks) and I was surprised at how low the thresholds have become to access the medicare safety net and the baby bonus.

      Maternity leave won’t increase the birthrate, it will reduce the unemployment rate, but it won’t give us new citizens to provide services in 20 plus years time.

    • persephone says:

      10:11am | 05/05/10

      ‘But when it comes to the most important period in our lives, the birth of a child, governments have still done nothing to help families through those first months of emotional stress and financial hardship.’

      Sort of contradicted by this article, in today’s Herald Sun:

      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/we-are-great-for-mothers/story-e6frf7l6-1225862297390

      Sure, more can be done - and decent parental leave is a good start, but your article seems to assume that’s all that new parents need.

    • Ben says:

      10:40am | 05/05/10

      Most of the extra babies that are born because of the baby bonus won’t grow up to look after us in our old people’s homes. They will grow up to be a drain on society like their parents.

    • d.jay.stevo says:

      11:30am | 05/05/10

      Ben, do you have some statistics to prove that point? Seems like a stereotype, rather than an educated arguement to me.

    • John says:

      03:09pm | 05/05/10

      Who needs statistics when they have conjecture and hearsay?

    • Wow Sir says:

      10:43am | 05/05/10

      However did we manage to have children and survive in the old days?? There should be less assistance to breed more children in this over populated world!  Support the first child with gov. help,-a little less for second,-nothing for more than two..

    • Anjuli says:

      10:46am | 05/05/10

      How do you differentiate between those who have babies JUST to get the paid leave and those who are genuine?. Go to the UK and talk to the people there , I bet every one of them will be able to tell you of girls who are having babies so they don’t have to work , they get cheap houses , money to burn as most of them smoke cigarettes .The money from the government in that country has created a generation of children who see no work ethics in the home. For the genuine people I am all for it,when I left work in the UK   1965 to have my child I was able to collect the unemployment benefit for 18 months, may be such a scheme would work.

    • Hamish says:

      11:29am | 05/05/10

      The characterisation of gender is this article is quite unfortunate Penbo. Most women still have children with long-term partners so characterising maternity leave, or ‘parental leave’ to use the PC version, as something that only women care about is really just inaccurate.

      There are a couple of things to note about paid maternity leave. Firstly, Australia’s birthrate is steadily increasing after falling to historic lows in 2001, so people are having more kids without any paid maternity leave. Secondly, families already receive a number of benefits not afforded to childless citizens, the Family Tax Benefit, for instance. Thirdly, countries with generous paid maternity leave schemes generally have very low birthrates. In the developed world, the US has the highest birthrate without any paid maternity leave.

      So the question becomes, why do we want paid maternity leave? If it’s to encourage people to have children, the best way is to cut taxes (which is the US model). People who choose to have children, have children when they feel financially secure enough to provide for them. The best way to do this is to provide financial relief before people have a kid, not after.

      If you just want to have paid parental leave because of vague notions of ‘fairness’ then all you’re really saying is that people who choose to have children should be supported by people who choose not to, which is clearly not fair at all.

    • Bryan Barnes says:

      11:45am | 05/05/10

      NO NO NO to paid maternity leave why should we pay for people to breed? The world is over populated and if you want em pay for em. People don’t take any responsibily for anything let alone the raising of children and now I am expected to pay for it NO!

    • MelD says:

      01:57pm | 05/05/10

      Yeah! lets get rid of aid to the old folks too, no one made them get old and frail and helpless it’s a lifestyle choice, let em live with it, I don’t want to be paying for mental health facilities or disabled facilities, these weren’t my fault I shouldn’t have to foot the bill.

      What i am sick of is mothers complaining about how hard it is to be a parent when I just read yesterday that Australia is number 2 in the world for being a mum.

    • Bon says:

      04:11pm | 05/05/10

      MelD being a parent IS hard, doesn’t matter where you live.  Australia may have a great quality of life and thus be a great place to bring up children, but that doesn’t make parenting any easier.  This is not an excuse or a complaint, it is just fact.  It also has nothing to do with whether there should be a paid maternity leave scheme.

    • MelD says:

      04:35pm | 05/05/10

      Ah yes but you CHOSE to be a parent, did you not know beforehand that it wasn’t a walk in the park? if not you really should have researched better

    • Bon says:

      07:04pm | 05/05/10

      Yes I did choose to have children.  I own that choice and I don’t regret it one bit.  That doesn’t change the fact that raising children is hard work.  Everything changes when the baby is born.  Everything.  You can do as much research as you like - nothing can prepare you for the reality of having children.

    • Macca says:

      12:21pm | 05/05/10

      How about spending the money fixing housing, utility and transport infrastructure to help reduce the financial burdens on the average household and thus better equipping households to deal with the additional financial burdens of childbirth / raising

      Sorry, thats a pretty crap election soundbite… won’t work

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      12:24pm | 05/05/10

      Bottom line is that we now have an official government policy to pay people not to work. We have another government policy to pay people to look for work. My view is that if you want work, then work, but tax dollars shouldn’t be used to pay people not to work.

    • Bogart says:

      12:26pm | 05/05/10

      Mortgage wiith kids?  Struggling with a new baby?  Thats not planning thats reaching beyond your grasp.  Thats the problem with Western society, its the same with our unemployed we want more than we need.  We rather keep our high living standards, than drop them, and have someone else pick up the bill.  We rather stay on the dole than go out and do some menial job, that the migrants we bemoan about will do.

    • Mother Tuppence says:

      12:30pm | 05/05/10

      i’ll only employ women over 60’s now and they can die with the boots on.  Better than a woman who might have 4 children on my pay.  How on earth did mothers in the past manage without baby bonuses and paid maternity leave?

    • persephone says:

      01:07pm | 05/05/10

      But you won’t be paying for them, under this scheme. That’s the whole point.

    • Proudly Nullagravida says:

      02:03pm | 05/05/10

      @ persephone. So who will Mother Tuppence employ when Yummy Mummy takes time to to Bond with Her Baby (tm) on her paid leave?

      Who will Mother Tuppence employ when Yummy Mummy demands part-time/work from home arrangements for two years coz that Bonding (tm) is not yet complete?

      And who will Mother Tuppence have to overlook for promotion because Yummy Mummy will scream “discrminination” if she misses out despire her denuded skills, poor team contribution, degraded relationship with clients and limited availability while all that Bonding (tm) was taking place?

      Oh yeah, silly me, the childless men and women in the same workplace as Yummy Mummy. Small businesses and the childless will pay. But hey, think of all that Bonding (tm).

    • persephone says:

      02:13pm | 05/05/10

      Mother Tuppence was commenting on women having babies on her pay, not about having to employ someone to take the woman’s place.

      Just correcting an error of fact.

    • DA says:

      03:13pm | 05/05/10

      Mother Tuppence wont be any worse off than she is already - under the current laws, she has to hold Yummy Mummy’s job open for 12 months, while Yummy Mummy is on (unpaid) maternity leave.

      And I havent seen anything that says flexible (part-time/work from home) arrangements will be compulsory under a new scheme - its up to Mother Tuppence to decide whether she wants to allow Yummy Mummy to work part time after her 12 months ‘grace period’ is up. The same choice she has to make now, if one of her employees is on (unpaid) maternity leave.

      If she decides not to, then Yummy Mummy can either come back to work full-time, or can find herself another job. No skin off Mother Tuppence’s nose…

      just sayin’

    • Chook says:

      12:31pm | 05/05/10

      If I was in the position of employing staff and I had a person come for a job and I knew that there was a chance that if that person got pregnant that i would have to pay them maternity leave then I wonder if I would take the chance and employ them. I think I might look about for a canidate who was biologically incapable of becoming pregnant instead.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:00pm | 05/05/10

      This is why I think maternity leave is going to have to be government funded.  If businesses are relied on to provide it, they might start discriminating against hiring women.

    • mother says:

      12:40pm | 05/05/10

      I was lucky when it came time for me to have a child. My boss was very supportive. I had paid maternity leave, plus I saved all my holiday time, so I was able to have longer with my first child. The same thing happened for my second child. I also had long service leave to add to it, so that was great, but I felt bad about have to take more maternity leave for the second one not that long after having the first child. I felt it wasn’t fair on my employer. I felt like I was cheating them, that I wasn’t being a good worker. I only had the two (which is enough in my opinion, especially for me). But I had to tell myself that I had given them 10 years of valued service. It wasn’t like I was just hired, then went off to have kids. I feel sorry for women, they have so much to think about. Hormones are a very hard thing to ignore. I hope they can come to a reasonable decision. One that suits everyone.

    • Kate says:

      01:00pm | 05/05/10

      I vote “no” to maternity leave!  I am totally against the redistribution of income including Family Assistance & the Baby Bonus.  Disability, carer’s, shortterm unemployment & old age pensions should be the only forms of govt. assistance provided as a safety net.  Taxes should be substantially reduced & budgeting courses given so that people learn to take care of themselves.  This would be a much fairer system. I get FTB as I am a stay at home mother but I would much rather have that money came in the form of reduced taxes.  Any other way & its a disincentive to work.

    • Bill says:

      01:03pm | 05/05/10

      How about scrap the baby bonus and implement a decent paid leave scheme. That working mothers will have more babies instead of the dole bludgers looking for some cash!

      There are to many low lives breeding. Australia needs to grow hard working children for the benefit of the country - not longer dole ques!

    • d.jay.stevo says:

      02:01pm | 05/05/10

      Not all mothers who are not in the workforce are dole bludgers, some of them are staying home doing the important job of raising previous children. So only mums that work should have babies. If my man is out working, and I am raising the children, which includes help to society (not too many of the working mums are available to help with much of what the school requires parent helpers for), therefore I am helping teach the kids of the working mums to read, but I shouldn’t be entitled to any help? I don’t expect to be entitled to as much as one who is giving up a pay check, but to create a system which only encourages workers to have children, seems a little to simplistic to me.

    • MelD says:

      02:56pm | 05/05/10

      Then it doesn’t apply to you does it? if you are being supported by a partner then you are not a dole bludger, I think what Bill is referring to and correct me if I’m wrong is the ones that leave school to have kids and get the bonus and have never worked a day in their lives, they don’t have partners who work they live off the system.  Wow Chillax, not everything is a personal attack against YOU

    • Pregnant says:

      01:59pm | 05/05/10

      I just find that the Paid Maternity Scheme is so unfair. You have to be working continously for 10 out of 13 months to be able to be eligiable. Both me and my partner have been working for ages and never claim anything from the government. i recently resigned from my previous employer (been with the company for 7 years) and was unemployed for 2 months. During this time i did not apply for any assistance. I found a new job with a really good company. We just found out that we are expecting our 2nd child but because i’ve just started with this new employer by the time in due i would not be eligible because i will be with the company for less than 10 months.
      But wat happen to all the previous that i have worked and pay my taxes. Doesn’t that give me the rights to claim or be elegible for it????

    • persephone says:

      02:21pm | 05/05/10

      Pregnant - you may still be eligible:

      ‘You meet the Paid Parental Leave work test if you have:

      worked continuously for at least 10 of the 13 months prior to the birth or adoption of your child
      worked at least 330 hours in that 10 month period (just over one day per week). ‘

      So you should get it on the second criteria.

    • Pregnant says:

      03:46pm | 05/05/10

      persephone - the eligibility for the scheme are : you have to work continously for at least 10 of the 13 months during that 10months you have to work at least 330 hours. Its both of them combine.

    • persephone says:

      07:17pm | 05/05/10

      I hate being wrong!

      Sorry.

      Look, the legislation hasn’t even gone to Parliament yet. It will be amended - that’s for sure. I suggest you contact your local MP (or even Macklin’s office) and run your situation by them and see if the legislation can be changed.

      You’d not only be doing yourself a favour but you’d be helping other mums as well.

      Worth trying.

    • Greek Snake says:

      02:14pm | 05/05/10

      What is with today’s society expecting hand-outs for reproducing? This pathetic sense of entitlement makes me sick. Having a child, like buying a house is something that must be planned, with careful consideration to both financial and family matters.

      Having a child is a choice. Your employer should not be burdened by any of the choices you make. If you leave for a 3 month holiday and have the annual leave for it, great, well done.  If not, don’t sit there with your hand out and whine about the government not implementing a parental leave strategy. How did previous generations cope, on a single income? I’ll tell you how… they didn’t have the newest cars and the flashiest gadgets. They had the bare necessities.

    • MelD says:

      03:02pm | 05/05/10

      They didn’t buy 4 year olds iPhones, or Nike sneakers, or top of the line electronics like X-box, they had bare minimum and they were HAPPY.

    • Peter says:

      03:59pm | 06/05/10

      My parents raised 4 kids while earning minimum wage.. Now we have feminists on $150,000 a year claiming their plans to buy a Mercedes Benz have been thwarted by this damn kid they have on their way and not getting a Mercedes Benz in the next 6 months is a human rights violation.. Thats’ what feminists study in Uni.. They write a Thesis based on complete bulls..t on why the Government should pay them Mat Leave.. At the end of the day, in these times, these handouts amount to buying things, not about any real rights…

    • Bon says:

      11:16am | 07/05/10

      My parents also raised 4 kids on minimum wage, and it sure as hell didn’t make them happy.  The idea that things were better “before” is a myth - things were not better.  My parents did what they had to do, because they had no choice.  But I bet if there were family payments and leave schemes available to them then, they would have welcomed them with open arms.  Just because they managed without these things doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have them, and doesn’t mean they were happy.

      Peter, how many mothers do you know that drive mercedes?  I have received all the payments that the government told me I was eligible for, and I have yet to see a plasma screen in my lounge room or a mercedes in my driveway.  I must be doing something wrong - according to some people in here I should be a millionaire by now, living off their taxes while I neglect my children.

    • Cranky says:

      02:25pm | 05/05/10

      All of this talk about the pros and cons of maternity leave only sidelines the real discusison we should be having - government support for the owners of fluffy domestic pets, including but not limited to dogs, cats and caged rodents. There are many observed health benefits that arise from the companionship of domestic animals, saving taxpayers millions in health care savings, yet why are we not subsidising this cost for the battlers out there? Furthermore, in the event of another GFC or climate change-induced catastrophe, the well subsidised (hence well fed) pets can be eaten. I call on Rudd, Abbott, Brown and the Pope to get their acts together on this.

    • Sarah says:

      02:28pm | 05/05/10

      I honestly don’t know why people want to bring children into this world which, judging by most of the posts here, hates them before they’re even born.

    • Adam Diver says:

      03:04pm | 05/05/10

      Couldn’t agree more. Don’t understand why we are happy to educate kids for 13 years, 8 hours a day, 200 days a year but ensuring mothers spend sufficient time with them whilst they are young is a selfish, selfish endeavour.

      Quite frankly anything that encourages working families to have children instead of unemployed families is a good idea to me.

    • Anne71 says:

      08:28am | 06/05/10

      Sarah, I don’t think anyone here “hates children before they’re even born”. Most of us are just questioning the fairness of the paid maternity leave scheme. But I realise that to people like you, that automatically makes us child-haters. Whatever. Use whatever emotive, exaggerated platitudes you want to justify the squandering of tax-payer’s money to subsidise other people’s lifestyle choice. Me, I’ll just keep working to raise those taxes to keep you in the lifestyle to which you’ve all become accustomed, and to which you feel so entitled. But it doesn’t mean I have to like it.

    • Deliberately Barren Jezebel says:

      02:34pm | 05/05/10

      The Harvester Judgement was considered a watershed in its time. For those who need reminding, Judge Higgins established that a male living wage had to be reasonable and fair so as to “maintain a man, his wife and three children in frugal comfort”. Please bookmark the adjective “frugal”.

      This also meant that young people were paid less than this wage and that women were paid less. It was argued that because women did not have a family to support, it was justifiable to pay them less than men.

      Feminists fought this demonstrable inequity and by the 1980s there was legislation to enforce equal pay for equal work. Arguably there is some disparity today between male and female income BUT it remains that there is no difference between male and female earnings for the same work.

      However, the myriad of cash benefits for parents and the introduction of paid maternity leave is the Harvester Decision by stealth. Tax deductions and rebates for child and wife related- expenses are now supplementing what was once the higher male wage. Most women who are mothers are in a relationship and so paid maternity leave supplements household income including the male wage earner.  These reforms are not enhancements of gender equity (that is, they are not measures to keep women in the workforce), but rather, a return to the old male breadwinner policies.  With four out of ten households paying no net tax and mothers being paid for not working, it is clear that childless singles and couples are paying for this largesse. Instead of wages favouring the childed household, income redistribution favours the childed household and punishes non-parents—including women, thank you feminists.

      It is bald social-engineering at the direct expense of childless singles and couples so that modern yuppie parents can maintain their pre-child lifestyle.

    • Eric says:

      03:31pm | 05/05/10

      That’s a very interesting take on the situation, Jezebel.

      Well worth a bit of thought.

    • katie says:

      02:48pm | 05/05/10

      I am a young mother of two, I received in the past FBT 2 and am still getting FBT 1.  I have to agree with some of the comments that paid maternity leave may not be the solution - and actually it may be unfair.  Why should employers keep a job opening for someone who is “supposed” to be coming back to work - and then they never do…..?  Will this make employers less likely to employ women?  Is it discriminatory against people who do not choose to have children?   
      Society should be encouraged to adopt more flexible working arrangements for men and women in a variety of career paths.  and tax breaks should be offered to working family’s with young children. 
      Mums as someone who has it all…....  I really do….. the answer is planning.  choose an appropriate career, and be more savy in your financial investment decisions - (you have more choices then you think in this….)

    • DA says:

      03:21pm | 05/05/10

      katie - the only difference between the ‘new’ system and the ‘old’ (existing) one is money, which will be paid by the government.

      No real difference will be noticed by businesses - in fact, those businesses who already voluntarily provide generous paid mat. leave schemes will probably be better off by having the govt fund the leave instead of it coming out of the business’s own pocket.

      Employers ALREADY have to keep a new mother’s job open for 12 months after having a baby. Thats the whole extent of the current unpaid mat. leave scheme. All the new proposal does, is add some cash into the equation.

      Employers who are already reluctant to hire women of child-bearing age, because of the cost of having to fill their position on the off-chance they have a baby, will probably continue to do so, but the laws will be no more onerous on a business than the existing status quo.

      Tony Abbots proposal to fund a paid mat. leave scheme by imposing a tax on business would have more of an impact - but thats a discussion for another day smile

    • Cheers says:

      02:51pm | 05/05/10

      Well, for me, the concept of paying someone who is not working is really weird. However, it is undeniable that in todays society, in order to support a modest mortgage with any sort of decent lifestyle for two people, there needs to be two incomes. I know my partner (who earns an average income) couldn’t support me and him if I lose my job (also average income). We could maybe scrape by if I worked part-time. And we don’t even own a house, we rent a run down old house. Now add a baby to that equation. There is no way one income is enough if you bought a house yesterday, no matter how much you scrimp and save (and trust me, I am an expert at this having gone to uni for 7 years to earn said average wage). Now back in the day, houses were 4 x the average income, and families could survive on one wage. Now houses (and rents follow the market too) are 10 x the average wage. You do the math. Maternity leave is an unfortunate side-effect of the modern woman working (there are also positives but no need to go into that).

    • persephone says:

      03:41pm | 05/05/10

      Cheers, but none of this is new. Menzies was paying women the child endowment. When I first started work, earning $18 000 pa, (above average wage) a ‘dependant spouse’ could receive payments of $8000 (1983).

      We’ve been paying for people not to work since WWII.

    • mel says:

      05:23pm | 05/05/10

      Firstly, if you feel a weirdness about paying people who are not working, then offer to pay your boss back for all your super contributions and holidays.  I’m sure you’ll feel better.

      Besides any “expert” who studies for 7 years (any HECS and student benefits claimed during that time for your choice to study? Didn’t that make you feel weird???) for an average job who cant afford to buy a house or have a family cant blame the “modern woman working”.  Every choice you make comes with an opportunity cost and your choices you have made have shaped your current existence.

    • Observer says:

      08:35pm | 05/05/10

      @ Mel—“then offer to pay your boss back for all your super contributions and holidays”

      *sigh* That old furphy that annual leave is paid by employers to employees for not working. For the most part, annual leave is a part of the total salary package and is more or less “earned”  pro-rata and held in trust to be paid to the employee at a later period.

      This is evidenced by
      a) the pro-rata nature of paid recreation leave (i.e. one usually “earns” recreation leave pay/super commensurate with time spent working) and
      b) that casual workers’ “loaded rate” includes annual leave in the hourly rate of paid.

      Furthermore, sick leave and rec leave can be accessed by all workers whereas paid parental leave is accessed by only a few. A childless wage earner/salary earner will understandably be miffed that they will need to be productive for a six years to earn six years’ pay whereas a mother can be workforce productive for anywhere from two thirds to half that and still earn the same money. Essentially the mummy does get paid for not working.

      Those arguing “oh but I have paid my taxes”...try getting full wage replacement if you LOSE your job through no fault of your own. You will not get that on the dole but pop out a baby and the baby-makers’ lobby want you to have 12 weeks, no 18 weeks, no 6 months, no 2 years wage replacement from taxpayers.

      If we are expected to self-fund our own social welfare (the age pension) through superannuation, then it is not too far fetched to ask that an insurance scheme is created for people to self-fund their or their spouse’s paid parental leave.

      But no. It seems to me that these modern yuppie hipster parents want to live beyond their means, have their baby and someone—anyone but them—must pay.

      “Every choice you make comes with an opportunity cost and your choices you have made have shaped your current existence.” Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Can someone please explain this to the entitlement-poisoned child-makers?

    • Bee says:

      02:53pm | 05/05/10

      I am shocked at the backward thinking of the people in this country…....! How you do not think that money paid to the govt by way of taxes (may I say - one of the highest tax rates in the world) should NOT be used to ‘invest’ in its future is astounding! The govt have a social responsibility to ensure its future and one of the many things included in that, is to encourage organic growth. Already, Australia are struggling to fill the growing no.s of professional positions which are needed to grow and support this economy, and hence have to look to employing more and more people from abroad (like myself). There seems to be this growing feeling of “tit for tat”, exacerbated by the media and draconian govt opinion of, I’ll only pay for this if I get such and such which is disappointing to say the least. Australia at present have an ageing population which, in the current climate will only get worse if people (who are already struggling) who can’t afford to live on one salary and are unable to buy a house, stall having children or let’s face it, if at all. I think it’s about time that this country, run by men, actually thought outside the box for once and thought about the future of this great country and caught up with the rest of the world…....!

    • MelD says:

      03:26pm | 05/05/10

      I Agree Bee, I am trying my best to find someone to procreat with me (prefereably without wanting to butt in and stay out once his ‘job’ is done) but no offers…..don’t know why, so am resorting to extreme measures to help the growth and future of this country, I really think sperm donors are the way to go and do it on my own.

    • Peter says:

      02:41pm | 06/05/10

      @ MelD, sorry, but won’t be donating sperm.. If i have a child, i would expect to be in it’s life….

    • JC says:

      03:51pm | 05/05/10

      “And any childless person who begrudges the use of “their” taxes to help families should ask themselves this question - when they’re old, in hospital or a nursing home, isn’t it this generation of kids who’ll be holding their hands and bringing them their medicine?”
      Are you kidding me? i am childless and do strongly begrudge my taxes going to people not to work when they have support at home.
      anyone who has a parent in care at the moment know that it is mostly children of india or the pacific islands that are holding their hands as children of australia find that kind of work beneath them. The children from this kind of incentive will be in London snorting cocaine and getting rich on the money market. Great return on my investment.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      04:21pm | 05/05/10

      Just when our Federal politicians can get to a subject on which they can sort of agree they, typically Kevin Rudd, without doubt Australias most disastrous Prime Minister since Gough Whitlam comes along and stuffs it up. (OK we didn’t like they way Gough got sacked but don’t forget the ensuing election overwhelmingly endorsed his sacking.) Someone comes along, believe it or not Tony Abbott, arch-conservative and a man not renowned for his pro-active attitude towards women, and proposes a much fairer, more generous Paid Maternity Leave proposal. What does Rudd do? He insists on his pathetic proposal. He does so simply because he cannot bear to be bested and is so arrogant he cannot accept that someone might just have a better idea than himself. Just be patient, the knives are being sharpened as we speak and we will have a new, temporary ALP Prime Minister in a week or so,

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      04:36pm | 05/05/10

      What did our great-grandparents and grand-parents do? They worked a lot harder than most people today, they had families, brought them up to be decent,  hard-working people. They kept a roof over their own and their children’s heads, they managed to feed and clothe them and did this on one, very often, low-income. They actually managed to save money too! But then along came excessive greed. The “Must Have Now” Society. The 5 bedroom, 6 bathroom, 4 car garages, a couple of lounges plus a family and a rumpus room, the In-House Cinema, the pool. All for two adults and a couple of $5000 babies. As if that’s not ebough, instead of saving up so that they could afford to take 6 months off work they expect to be paid. It’s time to get the priorities right. Want children? Have them but the parents have to decide and be prepared to accept that with parenthood comes responsibility and they simply have to abandon the “I Must have That now” system they could use when they were single.

    • melissa says:

      04:49pm | 05/05/10

      All those individuals claiming that a maternity benefit is unfair on the grounds of choice (ie,  a couple chooses to have a family, you pay for kids if you want them,  don’t make “me” pay etc etc) You make a great argument.

      So if you want 4 weeks annual leave a year, you pay for it.  Save up, if you can’t afford the lifestyle of holidays then you miss out.  It is not your employers responsibility to ensure you are well rested and fund your recreational activity.

      Same for retirement.  A perfectly healthy person should only retire when they can afford to without becoming a burden to our society.  If you can’t fund it, then be prepared to work harder or work for longer.  Employers should stop paying superannuation and the responsibility funding one’s retirement should be completely up to the individual.  Pension?  Why should I as a taxpayer pay for someone who wants to stop working when they are essentially making a lifestyle choice? 

      Have I made my point?

    • Hamish says:

      05:17pm | 05/05/10

      Melissa,

      I assume you’re being facetious, but the logic of your post is largely correct. Why should people have to pay for others’ lifestyle choices?

      I’m really interested - you accept they are lifestyle choices, yet you think everyone should pay for them - is that your argument? My personal view is if the government taxed everybody less you would find many more people have children as per my post above. If you look internationally you’ll find that the bigger the government the lower the birthrate.

      So, if we all started funding our own lifestyle choices, I think you’d find everyone would actually have a lot more kids.

    • MelD says:

      05:40pm | 05/05/10

      Annual leave is for EVERYONE! male, female, young and old. not just people that WANT to have babies, there really is no connection since the ones that choose not to become parents get nothing, they can’t take the same amount of time off as the women that just had a baby

      And retirement? that’s what our Super is for which our bosses contribute to.

    • melissa says:

      05:51pm | 05/05/10

      Hamish, yes, I was being facetious.  The irony of people upset about the “unfairness” of maternity leave while happily accepting other government and employer funded benefits for similar lifestyle choices just irks me. 

      I accept that in our past, a fight was made for holidays, super, and the eight hour work day etc.  Right now, the same debate is around maternity leave.  I am looking forward to the time in the future when it is regarded as essential as super and holidays (or even HECS) and an argument on its place in our society would be regarded as equally redundant.

    • JC says:

      05:51pm | 05/05/10

      Your point is ridiculous, most of the above examples you have given are from the private sector. our complaints are regarding PUBLIC funds.
      if an employer and employee agree to paid maternity leave, rock out. i just object to my tax dollars going to this cause.

    • persephone says:

      07:29pm | 05/05/10

      Hamish

      I think you’ll find that the higher birth rate in the USA is more to do with social conditions - poor education, especially about sex, attitudes to abortion and so on - than it is to do with lack of benefits.

      Certainly, most experts in the field see sex education as one of the best ways of lowering birth rates. Contraception is also up there.

      The USA has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancies in the developed world, due to poor sex education and attitudes to abortion.

      See

      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,323028,00.html

    • Hamish says:

      09:37am | 06/05/10

      Oh Perse, how did I know that you would play the old America is sooo backward card. The fact is that teen pregnancy exists everywhere (including, obviously, Australia).

      Most people who have children in America, as in Australia, are not ‘vulnerable’ or ‘at risk’ teenagers. I’m not advocating the American view of sex education or abortion (which actually differs greatly by state) but the idea that government tax-and-spend schemes improve the birthrate just doesn’t stack up.

      Indeed, as I say, and I’m sure you will actually know this, the bigger the government and the higher the taxation in a country, the lower the birthrate. It’s not the lack of benefits that ‘causes’ pregnancy, it’s the lower taxation regime that makes people feel more financially secure and therefore, more comfortable about starting a family.

    • Observer says:

      03:27pm | 07/05/10

      “I am looking forward to the time in the future when it is regarded as essential as super and holidays (or even HECS) ...”

      Yes Mel. I agree. I am looking forward to when Mat leave is *self-funded* like annual leave (which is earned prorata a part of a salary package or paid as a loading to casuals) and super (also part of salary package and earned pro-rata).  Both super and holiday leave are NOT “free money”.

      Or, like HECS, if paid parental leave comes from taxpayers, it is paid back when family income (yes, this includes the father) reaches a repayable level. This is known as income contigent loans.

      “The irony of people upset about the ‘unfairness’ of maternity leave”

      Irony? Er, it is clearly is unfair to pay two workers the same salary but one worker does not have to show up to the workplace or six months. It is essentially paying one person double for the same work. Equal pay for equal work—isn’t that what the feminists want? No. Obviously some women are more equal than others.

    • Erin says:

      05:31pm | 05/05/10

      Suck it up people.  Some of your tax dollars are going to be spent on things that you wont be able to (or wont choose to) take advantage of.  Just like I might never claim unemployment, or carers support, or a disability pension. Just because I might not ever claim them doesn’t mean I am going to spend my time roaring at the injustice of how people who “choose” to be eligible for those things are accessing my tax money.

      My tax dollars are currently helping to pave the roads you drive your overpriced luxury sedans on, support the private schools you send your brats to, and support any number of other things that I will never use.  Thats the way democracy works.  Its about making sure the needs of everyone are met - Not just your own current needs.

      Be realistic - It is a total of $9400.  It’s going to take the edge off but it certainly isn’t going to create an epidemic of lazy women popping out young-uns just so they can stay home and watch days of our lives.  And if you think thats the case then you clearly have no understanding of the stresses that a new child places on both mother and father and thus are ill equipt to comment.

    • Proudly Nullagravida says:

      03:04pm | 07/05/10

      ” you clearly have no understanding of the stresses that a new child places on both mother and father and thus are ill equipt to comment”

      Oh wah wah wah! I am a victim and you are not. So by making you conpensate me for this self-inflicted pain and stress it will address my twisted sense of aggreiment and my envy that you have dared to dodge the bullet.

    • Samantha says:

      05:36pm | 05/05/10

      Thanks for the suggestion Melissa but I already pay for my own holidays, not my employer.  It’s called contract work.  In fact lots of people work for themselves and finance their own holidays and superannuation. 

      The fact is that single childless people pay a higher rate of tax at the same level of income than couples who receive baby bonus and other family tax benefits.  They already contribute to the future welfare and education of your children through their tax payments.
      I don’t have children and I don’t plan to start now, but I do have a close relative with a serious illness who may not have much time left.  I’ve been working for >20 years, will the government pay me for 18 weeks leave so i can care for this person? After all, you raised the issue of fairness…

    • melissa says:

      07:28pm | 05/05/10

      Stephanie, I too pay for my own holidays for those of my employees.  As a company owner, I can assure you, I also pay a high rate of tax.  I also have children and with the exception of an immunisation payment which is not means tested, receive zero benefit for them thanks to a successful business that supports us.

      Just it case it wasn’t glaringly obvious, I was indeed being facetious when using the examples in my post.  The irony is that of many of the discussions are based around the issue of choice.  The fact that parenthood is a lifestyle choice shouldn’t make it less of a reason to be considered for funding in much the same way as HECS,  retirement or any other “lifestyle choice”. 

      Family leave should be available for all.  Weather you choose to use it to parent children or care for elderly relatives, (which will probably replace the “parenthood” issue of our coming decades as the population ages) the benefit to our society as a whole is obvious.  The problem is in the execution.  I used super as an example of business providing a solution for their employees retirement.  The government supports this with tax breaks and incentives for individuals to invest.  A solution for family leave exists.  I am looking forward to a future where its debate about it’s place and cost in our society is accepted, and debate about its relevance is as redundant as discussion about if “retirement” is fair, or “HECS” is fair.

      In the meantime, I weary of the complaints of people who make choices as if opportunity costs of choices do not exist.  Complaining that personal choices haven’t resulted in an ideal outcome speaks more of individual judgement, and sadly, that can’t be blamed on the government.

    • Peter says:

      04:03pm | 06/05/10

      @ Melissa, im sorry, i can’t afford to pay any more to raise other peoples family.. All told, taxes, duties, excises, rates etc etc eat up over 60% of my income.. What more do you guys expect from me?

    • Ricky says:

      05:52pm | 05/05/10

      Why should my taxes pay for someones lifestyle choice?Or why should a small business be put at a disadvantage because you need nine months off?its simple, if you cant afford kids, dont have them.The whole attitude of entitlement that seems to be rampant in todays parents says alot about their attitudes & the difference between them & the older generations who knew how go without to get ahead without constantly screaming for handouts.

    • Tom says:

      02:29pm | 06/05/10

      Why should I pay for your stuff I want to spend my money where I like   on my childern, but I can’t because I am paying for your Private health insurance Rebate, your Extra Super contribution, Your Roads and rebates for Small business.  Lets not forget your age pension are you not smart enough to save for it in the first place. Talk about being a burden on society have to pay the minimum wage for 20 years add health expense on top.

    • Fed up says:

      08:26pm | 05/05/10

      I’m tired of my husband working long & hard just to pay more taxes to fund other people’s lifestyles.  I am in my 40’s & my husband is in his 50’s.  We had two boys just before the onset of the Baby Bonus, bought a house before the onset of the FHOG, paid mega child support for 18 years finishing just one month before the govt. decided that the system was unfair to second families and reduced what he would have had to pay.  We get very little in the way of FBT.  My husband earns an above average wage but one income doesn’t go far and I am unable to work due to a disability.  I receive no benefits for my disability - not even a health care card.  And now my husband has to work another 2 years before he can retire.  We live more frugally than anyone i know, just so we can pay the bills.  And now the govt. is going to want my husband to pay yet more tax so that we can subsidise other people’s much more lavish lifestyles.  I say enough is enough!!!  We are already penalised as one larger income is taxed more heavily than 2 smaller incomes.  Bring in income splitting I say!

    • JD says:

      09:25pm | 05/05/10

      Want to fund a paid parental leave scheme? Simple, cut the ridiculous tax evasion Living Away From Home Allowance Scheme, and make all the international travellers who choose to take up jobs pay tax like everyone else.  I know many people who get tens of thousands of dollars tax free on the basis of LAFHA and none of them were truly imported by the companies to cover skill shortages in the local market - they just want to live and work in Australia - permanently in many cases.
      Collect taxes from all working people and use it to pay for parental leave!

    • Leigh thomas says:

      04:18am | 06/05/10

      Do us all a favour and cancel this promise . We cant afford a Paid maternity leave program . Whats more we should never have to . Its the choice of the individuals concerned to have a baby and it should not be up to the community to pay for that choice.It is a cost to the community that is onerous and discrimatory.

    • Pixie says:

      07:47am | 07/05/10

      I am not paying for someone else child…no one paid for mine!!! It’s all a big bludge….some mothers seem to think they are owed for having a child…be responsible, don’t have one if you are not prepared to go with out some comforts…you cannot have it all…people can be so greedy.

    • Kat says:

      09:31am | 06/05/10

      I love how you drag up that tired old chestnut about how we need young to look after us childless people when we’re old. And for your information, that’s childfree, not childless.
      My reply? Look around at all the breeders, with their feral kids running amok. Literacy and numeracy is way down as kids just don’t bother to learn and parent’s don’t bother to parent, preferring to let their little darlings run wild. Our society as a whole is dumbing down to the level of this current generation who see education as something forced on them, not a means to an end. I think that come the future it will not be us “oldies” who will be dragging the system down, but rather the feral generation of neglected kids who are illiterate, uneducated and literally, unemployable. The really sad thing is most don’t seem to care - along with their parents. THIS is what we rail against. Why should my taxes go towards paying someone to have a child when they are only going to neglect the child?
      Oh, and really - we singles already pay for society’s children. My taxes pay for their public education, for their plasma - sorry, breeder - bonus, for their medical help and for their conception in certain circumstances (IVF). And I’m also expected to pay for their parents to take a fully paid holiday and take up their workload as well? Give us a break. What’s next… paid conception leave?

    • Tom says:

      02:33pm | 06/05/10

      I hope you saved enough for retirement because by the sounds of it, those feral childern will not be able to pay you that old age pension.

    • Bon says:

      07:30pm | 06/05/10

      What, so parents don’t pay tax? I wasn’t aware that it was only single, childfree people who were contributing to the government’s tax coffers.

    • Othello Cat says:

      10:04pm | 07/05/10

      “What, so parents don’t pay tax? I wasn’t aware that it was only single, childfree people who were contributing to the government’s tax coffers”

      Oh it is childfree couples too, not just childfree singles. Indeed, four out of ten households pay no net tax. The bulk of income taxes are being pay by the childfree and it is the childfree who use less recources than the childed.

      Australia’s cash handouts given to parents, as a proportion of GDP are the second highest in the OECD (after Luxemborg).

    • The Other Martin says:

      10:22am | 06/05/10

      Your article states that most reasonable people want a parental leave system. You may be right but the problem is that we are having that decision forced upon us. The proposed systems are mandatory. Let us make the decision of what we want and who knows, you may be happy with the outcome.

    • My Own Keeper says:

      11:11am | 06/05/10

      I am so sick of people wanting others to fund/support the decisions they make in life. You want a child you have one and don’t ask me to help you out! You already get a baby bonus and most places have maternity leave of some kind and you may also fit into the category that gets the first home buyers money. HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU WANT?!! If I was an employer I would not be keen to employ a woman of “breeding age and intent” so to all you selfish new mothers out there you are just making it harder for your sisters everywhere by demanding this! More and more people are not taking responsibility for the things they do. Well if you can’t or won’t make provisions to have your own child then maybe I could have my job held for me for a year while I went overseas for a trip or even spent 12 months studying full time. Any takers to pay for these things for me and keep my job open? I mean these things are important and life changing for me and will make me a more rounded and experienced worker!! Suck it up people!

    • Tom says:

      02:43pm | 06/05/10

      I hope you saved enough super to cover you own retirement, otherwise how could even think about put such burden on others people Taxes, after all it was your own choice to save or not.

      My plan is to help my childern as much as I can right now, so they can help me later.

    • MYSAY says:

      03:27pm | 06/05/10

      Well if its my choice to have children then it should be my choice where their taxes go in the future. So I want there taxes to only go to families and people on maternity leave. The attitude of some of the people on here is unbelieveable, so selfish and don’t understand about the the greater good of our community. You know people complain about how many people are coming into Australia from other countries yet they also complain when fellow Australians need a hand early on when having a baby. Remember the money we put into kids today and in the future to help them grow and learn is an investment for the future.

    • Observer says:

      03:52pm | 07/05/10

      “The attitude of some of the people on here is unbelieveable, so selfish “

      People are not just asking for “a hand” MYSAY. They are asking for full wage replacement for anything from 12 weeks to 2 years. They are asking that married people pay less tax. Social engineering much?

      Yes.  I see selfish people.

      I have made babies. I am special.
      I pay tax and want it all back and then some.
      I have made babies. I am special.
      I want to have my pre-baby spending power because I should not face the real responsibility of opportunity costs.
      I have made babies. I am special.
      I am jealous of the childless because I secretly regret my mistake.
      I have made babies. I am special.
      I aspire to have it all and I live beyond my means.
      I have made babies. I am special.
      I am educated, middle-class, married (and white) and do not need to be held accountable for my generous welfare handouts.
      I have made babies. I am special.
      I am disatisfied with my lot in life because I compare myself with those who have more than me, rather then those who have less.
      I have made babies. I am special.


      I would rather pay a teacher to explain to your kids the difference between “there” and “THEIR” than give you alone wads of cash and just hope you do the right thing by them. That would be ” the greater good.”

    • Nathan L says:

      03:54pm | 06/05/10

      My tax dollars aren’t paying for women to raise their kids if men do not receive the same benefit.

    • Bon says:

      07:09pm | 06/05/10

      Men will receive the same benefit, if they are the ones who take the parental leave.

    • L of Melb says:

      07:47pm | 06/05/10

      NO tax dollars should go to men who don’t actually raise their kids.

    • Double standards says:

      03:14pm | 07/05/10

      Since the faux-altriuists insist that their paid child-making will ensure, no guarentee,  that their kids are going to this future army of taxpaying lawyers, nurses and doctors who will be rioting in the streets to voluntarily change diapers on geriatrics, how about parents fill out a mummy diary during the course of their parenting to show how well they are bonding with bub? Hell, we insist that all other welfare recipients accountable for their meagre stipend from tax coffers, what makes married mummies excempt from accountablity for wads of dosh?

    • Roman says:

      06:38pm | 26/04/11

      For someone that cares about whether a photo was real or Photoshopped, maybe you can try Photoshopped Image Killer. This free website maybe can give your answer. By analyzing something like Exif data or so. But it it really bad that the seller is touching op those images? Maybe he just sharpened the image and removed some things from the background.

 

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