It’s time to put our “I Heart Germaine” t-shirts away for another year now International Women’s Day has passed. For some women it’s a day that fills their hearts with pride as they fondly reminisce about the marches and the combustibility of their C-cups, for other women it’s a day they cower nervously lest anyone slings the ‘F’ word their way- feminist.

Jeffrey Smart's portrait of Germaine Greer.

Nearly 40 years after Germaine published The Female Eunuch and the second-wave rolled into town, how has feminism’s image slipped from that of a relevant, mainstream social justice movement to a of a blurry cultural reference point?

Gloria Steinem commented recently that feminism “is a revolution, not a public relations movement”.

But even a revolution needs PR to succeed in the battle for hearts and minds and slogan covered t-shirts. And boy, has feminism gotten some bad press of late.

Elle McPherson in an interview in the Guardian explained she thought the very word feminist was “one of those coined phrases that has a lot innuendo and not much meaning these days”.

The Body ploughed on, explaining that she thinks the concept of equal rights for men and women “doesn’t really sit with me in many ways”.

Germaine must have choked on her muesli as she read those sentences over her morning Earl Grey and Bircher.

Then there’s sometimes pants-wearing, sometimes not, Lady GaGa who told a Norwegian interviewer, “I’m not a feminist - I, I hail men, I love men. I celebrate American male culture, and beer, and bars and muscle cars…”

Miss Universe 2009, Venezuelan Stefania Fernandez in the question and answer segment of the competition suggested that women have overcome all the challenges in their way and had smashed through the glass ceiling. “I feel we have reached the level that men are at” Fernandez opined.

So, thanks for the bra burning and the marching and all those countless hours spent painstakingly painting placards with slogans about fish and bicycles, but feminism is all a bit passé really.

It is this perception, that feminism has done its job thank you very much, that is one of the underlying reasons so many women reject any association with the feminist label or movement.

The London Times ran a forum last year entitled “When did feminism lose the plot”. “I’ve never really related to it,” Carlene, 26, said, “It’s always portrayed as this Sixties bra-burning thing.” For another participant, feminism was an anachronistic relic with no relevance to today’s younger women because “all the battles are won”.

For many women, the question of gender equality, especially in the workplace, is a moot point. We take it as a given that we can wear the trousers and be the CFO of a Fortune 500 company, all while donning a pair of vertically challenging Christian Louboutin heels. We can demand respect in the office and twirl around a pole in the name of exercise and claim to be as empowered as the next PHD- toting girl.

We, both men and women alike, have been brought up to consider ourselves wholly equal, and thus there is an intellectual about- turn required to accept that feminism still has battles left to fight and win. To buy into feminism means we have to admit that, no matter how equal we feel, women are still the lesser- lesser paid, lesser represented, and lesser part of the global economic and political juggernaut.

No matter how empowered women feel, we are not equal. The proof is in the pay check. After having consumed a diet of Girl Power, Feminism-lite popularly peddled in recent years its time we took a look at the bottom-line.

It was reported last week that the parity between men’s and women’s wages was greater in 1985 than in 2009. In an attempt to address the situation, the ACTU has announced it is planning to put the fight for equal pay back on the political table, making the issue a “major union campaign priority” for 2010.

As of last year, women engaged in full-time work earned on average only 82.5% of what men did in Australia. Female university graduates, despite making up more than 50% of alumni, earn approximately $2,000 a year less than their male counterparts when they ditch the books and enter the workforce.

And we’re not doing so well compared to the rest of the world either. The World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Index for 2009 rates Australia as number 20, behind Lesotho, Latvia and Trinidad and Tobago, having slipped from the 15th position in 2006.

Australia remains one of the few Western nations that do not have a statutory requirement to offer paid parental leave according to the Shadow Minister for the Status of Women Dr Sharman Stone.

Statistics suggest women earn about 5% less for each year they have been out of the workforce changing nappies than if they had kept their seat at the boardroom table.

Come retirement age, women face a much less secure future due to their stop/start work history and lower levels of super.

It is here, in the conflict between women’s overly- confident expectations and the reality of the impediments that still stand in the way of them pursuing with equal vigour as men happiness in their professional and personal lives, that feminism’s ongoing legitimacy and importance comes clearly into focus.

“We need to also acknowledge that women in Australia, both Indigenous and non-Indigenous, face a lot of unfinished business” Dr Stone has said.

A poll conducted in the UK in October last year revealed that one in three women and one in two men were not even aware there even was a pay gap.

Natasha Walter, author of “Living Dolls: The Return of Sexism” said in an interview, “There have been great changes to women’s lives…. But we’ve been complacent in the past decade”.

Let the PR war begin.

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336 comments

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    • persephone says:

      06:55am | 15/04/10

      Feminism has been a dirty word for as long as I can remember - and I grew up in the sixties and seventies.

      That’s partly because it’s always been misunderstood - probably because it’s been badly labelled.

      True feminism is about allowing both genders choice, not favouring one over the other, but its name and its portrayal usually suggests it’s just about women.

    • Eric says:

      09:43am | 15/04/10

      Feminism is just about women, as its name implies.

      It’s a hate movement that blames men collectively for all the ills of the world. The main aim of feminism is to give every privilege to women at the expense of men’s rights.

    • Zeta says:

      09:47am | 15/04/10

      If that were the case, it wouldn’t be called feminism, it would be called ‘equalism’.

      The Civil Rights movement wasn’t called Blackism because it advocated equality for all people - that a white man living in a culture of degredation of his fellow man couldn’t be free either.

    • Peter says:

      10:18am | 15/04/10

      Your right Eric. Just go out to a night club and follow the progress of events that lead up to 2 males fighting. Behind most of it is a couple of scheming women “just checking out” how far blokes would go to pick them up. They deliberately play one off against the other, laugh when a fight breaks out, and the men get locked up.. I guarantee you this accounts for about 90% of nightclub violence..

    • Smidgeling says:

      10:21am | 15/04/10

      I don’t think the name suggests it is all about women gettng preferential treatment. It is the feminazis and other groups that make it a dirty word with all the negative connetations.

      There are feminazis who make an issue out of whatever supports their cause, but ignore the parts thatt don’t. The empowered stripper vs the exploited stripper. The wife that smacks her husband around- ok vs the husband that smacks his wife around- not ok. The issue of being “expected” to change their surname- why not just live the change you want to see instead of harping on about it and demanding all women keep their ‘maiden name’?

      I know self identified feminists who clearly exhibit obvious double standard behaviour throughout most aspects of their lives.

      And then there are the princess types who claim that want to be equal to a man, yet expect men to buy drinks, pay for dates and buy them presents.

    • OldGirl says:

      11:15am | 15/04/10

      me too persephone, I can remember my horrified mother telling me not to dare burn my bra, after all what would the neighbors think of her 16 year old daughter running round braless. I have always been in favor of people Liberation, both men and women. I think the majority of feminists are. It was sure an exciting times and we managed huge protests, not only about this issue but Vietnam and many other protests of the day without mobile phones or computers, word traveled word of mouth all over Australia. Kids today think a few taps on the computer key board is the answer now and things will not change.

    • James says:

      11:21am | 15/04/10

      At the risk of sounding like a self hating male Eric, most of the ills of the world are due to men, war being a classic example, yes there is some female involvement but you do have to concede that it is a pretty male enterprise.

      Having said that “feminists” who use feminism as an excuse to be revolting people are not particular admirable and I suspect are the reason many young women distance themselves from the movement.

    • BTS says:

      11:40am | 15/04/10

      Margaret Thatcher went to war.
      Golda Meir went to war.

      More women would have gone to war if they were in the top jobs.

    • Peter says:

      11:45am | 15/04/10

      BTS you are 100% correct. If the world were full of female leaders, i can see countries going to war because one leader doesn’t like the colour of the nail polish the other one has got, or it might even come down to jealousy over a dress? All war is about money. Why do men love money? Because women love men with money? So i could say, if there were no women, there would be no war!!

    • Eric says:

      12:06pm | 15/04/10

      James, to balance the bad things men do, you should also acknowledge that most of the good things in the world were also made by men.

      Your drinking water, your electricity, your advanced health care - all invented and mostly provided by men. In fact, without men’s achievements, there would be only a few humans, living in caves in the cold and dark, hunted by tigers and the like.

    • Lara says:

      01:40pm | 15/04/10

      Are Peter and Eric trolls?

    • Kaitlyn says:

      01:40pm | 15/04/10

      As a young woman I am horrified to read the comments from men below. No wonder women cannot advance in society, men still hold such an awful view of them. What on earth causes these views? If, as you suggest, women are causing men to brawl in nightclub, maybe the men shouldn’t be so stupid to fall for the supposed set up in the first place.
      I would hate to think any of you have daughters, because the complexes you would impose on them would be horrific.
      I studied feminism at uni, and I freely admit there was a lot of bitter women in the class also. At times the way some students man-hated brought me to tears. It’s disappointing to see some men hold a vice-versa attitide. These people are as bad as each other.
      There are plenty of competent women missing out because of these attitudes.
      And these comments prove that clearly it is the uneducated making assumptions about things they do not have a proper understanding of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

    • James says:

      02:38pm | 15/04/10

      BTS, I take your point but whenever people bring up Maggie you have to ask was the Argentinian who invaded the Falklands a woman?

      Also Eric it is a bit of a stretch to say that all good things were invented by men here is a list of some things that were invented by women:

      Bullet Proof Vests

      The Bra

      Refrigerator

      Kevlar

      Windshield Wipers

      Rotary Engine

      White Out

      Fire Escape

      Scotchgard

      Life Raft

      Medical Syringe

      Canister Vacuum

      ironing board

      Circular Saw

      Geobond

      Nyastatin

      Washing Machine

      Cooking Stove

      Agriculture

      Dishwasher

      Laser Printers

      Spray on skin (for burns victims)


      and also it is a bit of a stretch to say that electricity and cars etc are all good anyway, yes they have done good things but they have also done bad things, road trauma, climate change etc.

      I understand the points you are making but be fair that is all I am saying.

    • Peter says:

      06:04pm | 15/04/10

      @ Lara, typical feminist trait, avoid the facts and start the name calling. Kapow! you got me a good one there!!

    • Vicki PS says:

      06:03pm | 15/04/10

      @Zeta:  It was mostly whites who used the term ‘Civil Rights Movement’ (and that mainly in retrospect), or am I mistaken and it was really the NAAP?

    • Peter says:

      06:18pm | 15/04/10

      @ Kaitlyn, these women just wait to see who the winner is going to be because that’s gonna be the man for the night.. And I agree with you, these blokes are bloody stupid and that I suppose another reason they are fighting in the first place. Its rabid feminist man hating women that turn men off, and we know your not all like that. They just make the rest of you look bad.

    • Rachel says:

      06:52pm | 15/04/10

      Eric - without women you wouldn’t exist. 
      Peter - quit stereotyping please. 

      It really annoys me when people make behavioural judgements based on gender, which has nothing to do with personality.  Culture has the biggest influence on gender and accounts for a lot of what people state is ‘women’ or ‘man’ behaviour.

    • Eric says:

      07:29am | 16/04/10

      James, without even looking it up I can tell you the rotary engine was invented by a man. Your list seems extremely dubious.

      Kaitlyn, this is what you get when society runs a decades-long hate campaign against men.

    • Peter says:

      09:48am | 16/04/10

      Sorry Rach, I thought feminism was all about stereotyping men.. Esp all the negative stuff… They even do courses on it at Uni, which im astounded by actually. You complain that you don’t earn as much money as men and you study feminism (aka HATE) at school.. How is that going to make you money?

    • Eric says:

      10:00am | 16/04/10

      Rachel - Without men, you wouldn’t exist either.

      So what’s your point?

    • James says:

      11:52am | 16/04/10

      Maybe, but you won’t know till you look them up, unless you have a unique ability that no one else does.  My point is that to say men are the best because we invented blah blah blah is very simplistic. 

      All indications are the women invented agriculture and beer (yes beer, that changes things doesn’t it), which would make sense because men were mainly out hunting.  So infact, without women, we actually may still be living in caves given agriculture was a seminal moment in human history. 

      The problem with your statements Eric are that they are very black or white, and possibly that is a male thing.  I am not suggesting that women are better than men or visa versa maybe in the final analysis I think we are equal which, I think was the original point of feminism, before it was hijacked by various interest groups.

    • Al says:

      01:10pm | 16/04/10

      James - your list is just plain wrong.

      All variants of the rotary engine was invented by men - Eric was correct.

      The only other ones I bothered checking before realising that you are entirely full of rubbish were bullet roof vest - man, bra - woman, refridgerator - man.

      You should be embarassed about thyour enormous failure rather than lecturing others about their viewpoints.

    • Go Feminism says:

      01:52pm | 16/04/10

      Why are so many men on here saying feminism is a bad thing?

      Anything that convinces women that doing exactly the same things as before is now “empowering” instead of demeaning is great!

      And to those who thinks feminists are communists, did you have a bit too much LSD with your orange juice this morning? That’s a pretty paranoid argument…

    • Formersnag The Child Protector. says:

      01:50pm | 16/04/10

      @ Al, spot on, “but wait, there’s more”. Absolutely all of fe"man"Nazism is wrong. World renowned sociologist, Dr Warren Farrell has been debunking, every single one of their myths, bar none, for decades with every book he has written. Every stat/survey they have ever produced, has had its methodology, examined & been proven, to be rigged, in order to promote their sick agenda.

      Which is to make women as “ugly on the inside” & unattractive to men as possible. How else are lesbians, going to get some more action? Feminism is not the new, “F word” so much as the new word for “coyote ugly” in a woman’s, personality/character. it is failure training 101, wife/motherhood for dummies.

      http://www.warrenfarrell.com/

    • Peter says:

      02:07pm | 16/04/10

      @ Al. Feminists lie, that’s all they now what to do. They try and tell you there was a time they were downtrodden and unloved, which is complete BS. Men adore women… Lie, Lie and name calling is all what feminism is about…

    • Fieldy says:

      02:12pm | 16/04/10

      Eric - wrong, sorry! Now we can reproduce without men, aah sperm banks!

      You see little trolls, Eric and Peter, it’s all quite simple, it’s all part of an evil feminist plot to take over the wold… and to get rid of men forever! It was devised in a secret feminist moon-base, situated on the dark side of the moon. It will be carried out in the year 2012 and herald the End of the World!

    • James says:

      02:36pm | 16/04/10

      @ Al, I think you will find that Stephanie Louise Kwolek invented kevlar

      Margaret Knight invented several devices related to the rotary engine

      Florence Parpart invented the refrigerator and a street cleaning machine

      Josephine Garis Cochran invented the first practical dishwasher

      Elizabeth Lee Hazen invented the first antifungal antibiotic

      Tabitha Babbit invented the circular saw

      So my comments still stand

    • Al says:

      02:40pm | 16/04/10

      Ahh Fieldy - sperm banks require men you goose.

    • Peter says:

      02:58pm | 16/04/10

      @ Fieldy, good one, again with the typical feminist name calling. I know ive won as soon as someone resorts to that.. Re your sprerm bank, did you know there are less than 20 registered donors in the country. The numbers are diving BIG TIME!! Unfortunately were dealing with some stupid (but probably kind) men who give it away and not sell it for many thousands of dollars, like they could.. Sperm banks are struggling Fieldy, what are you going to do about that??

    • Al says:

      03:15pm | 16/04/10

      James - you obviously have some difficulty with comprehension as well as with doing research.

      The rotary engine was invented and patented by Felix Millet. A number of variations followed - all designed by men. Margaret Knight did not invent the rotary engine.

      The first bullet proof vest was invented by Filippo Negroli in the 1500’s again a male. I said nothing about Kevlar which you would have known had you not willfully, or ignorantly misinterpreted what I wrote. Stephanie Louise Kwolek did indeed invent Kevlar but bullet proof vests were around long before Kevlar.

      I think you will find William Cullen invented the first refrigerator with the those responsible for further improvements on the design being men also - so you are wrong again.

      I am not going to fact check any more of your garbage - you obviously didn’t do any research. Instead of trying to whitewash your failure take it like a man, admit you are wrong and find a sound basis for your argument.

    • Fieldy says:

      03:15pm | 16/04/10

      Ka POW!

      Al - your logic is impeccable. My tiny female brain couldn’t comprehend that fact…

      But surely we have enough sperms in the banks to do without men? Or we could clone more humans… or um… Drat! The evil feminist plot is ruined, guess we will have to keep up with the spineless misandry for now.

      *Shakes head sadly, removes shoes and walks slowly back to kitchen*

    • sam says:

      03:34pm | 16/04/10

      Never hear Women complaining that they’re last off the ship when it sinks…Try that and men might step on board..until then..sorry ladies

    • Fieldy says:

      03:22pm | 16/04/10

      @ Peter

      You are priceless! I love your work… you’d make any paranoid schizophrenic proud.

      Keep up the good work champ!

      PS - your insight into the feminists/communist link is particularly inspired. I also happen to think that feminists AND communists are actually reptilians… it’s worth thinking about no?

    • BTS says:

      03:45pm | 16/04/10

      Fieldy,

      Could you get us a couple of brews for me and the boys, Footy’s on tonight!

    • James says:

      04:22pm | 16/04/10

      Nice try Al.  I think my point still stands rather than quibbling about one invention you have to acknowledge that women did actually invent quite a few things that made our world better.

      What is even more telling is what they didn’t invent:

      The machine gun
      The A-Bomb
      The landmine
      The Tank
      DDT
      Cluster bombs
      Biological Weapons
      Chemical Weapons
      Fast food

      Getting the picture here Al ol buddy.

    • elli says:

      04:59pm | 16/04/10

      Eric, James, Peter, BTS… guessing you boys are all single… you probably think that’s because women are all coniving bitches, but it may have a little more to do with your own attitudes. Do you honestly have a probem with the principles of equal pay for equal work, equal representation for women, rights for women????

    • Peter says:

      06:05pm | 16/04/10

      @ Elli, you have no idea. We already have equal pay for equal work. What planet are you living on? Feminists seem to think that a cashier should be paid the same as a CEO. Feminists want access to other peoples money so they can raise kids without a father. Feminism is communism because now all its about is getting access to other peoples money. Maybe you should pay more attention. I couldn’t care less what you do with your lives, just don’t think you have a right to dig your hands into my pockets.

      @ Fieldy, clearly you are ignorant of the feminism agenda and where its roots first took place. As for me being paranoid, i don’t know what i said to make you think that, but again typical feminist trait of personal insults ahead of facts. You should listen carefully to what these feminists want, if you did, you would realise that all they want is other peoples money. You know how we all adore the welfare sucking women with 5 kids from 5 different fathers. Feminism thinks that’s great, regardless of the harm it does to the kids..

    • BTS says:

      06:15pm | 16/04/10

      Elli,

      Sorry, married to THE most wonderful woman in the world, she’s adored and made to feel she is the most important person in the world.

      She also allows me freedom of thought and expression.

      Guess that ruins everything you say from that point on doesn’t it?

    • Rachel says:

      09:13am | 17/04/10

      It doesn’t matter who invented what and it’s not a fair representation of worth anyway, considering women and men haven’t been considered equal intellectually for that long - and if you’re judging worth by inventions, what have you invented? 

      What it really comes down to is whether you support women being second class citizens - not having the right to vote, not getting equal pay, not being regarded equal intellectually…  That’s what feminism is about - fighting for equal rights.  Anybody who says it is about women being above men is sadly misinformed. It’s basically like the African-American equal rights movement in America - they don’t want to be above white people, just be treated equally.  It’s pretty much like any movement that oppressed people have.  Just because women are not oppressed anymore, doesn’t mean all the issues are gone.  The gender stereotypes are still there and they are a problem for both genders.

    • Al says:

      10:20am | 17/04/10

      Again James it isn’t one error you have made - it is three out of the four I have bothered checking

      Sure women have invented some great things that make our lives better but the key point is that the contribution of men far outweighs that of women.

      The original point that you tried to make is that the contribution to science of men does not outweigh that of women - by providing a flawed list you failed to make that point.

      An argument can not validly exist seperate from the facts.

      On the facts you are a goose however I expect that you in defiance of reality think you are rather bright.

    • benno says:

      10:22am | 17/04/10

      @ VIcki PS - it’s alright, you can say the word “coloured” here - particularly when you abbreviate it to a C in NAACP.
      Gee, what a lot of fuss for an article that’s not really controversial at all.

    • Jamie says:

      05:03pm | 17/04/10

      This is spot-on. I think Gloria Steinham said that “Feminism” is a necessary process to bridge the gap between men and woman as we all live in some type of co-existence with one another.
      That includes your mother father sister and brothers grandma grandad children. It simply says that we can work towards this, everyone’s flaws and all, because a lot of it, working together, is common sense.
      We are not that separate, we are not living in a one sex world- that’s why women have said that are a vital part of the world.
      The advertising world and religion would like us to not be communicating well- so many things could not be pitched to us without “the men in one corner women in another” chaos.
      Keep everyone fearful it leads to violence of some sort.
      I don’t take the term feminism to heart or get offended by it-that’s being too sensitive for any context- like any term that’s all it is. I am not sure why some men(or women for that matter) here have over- defended themselves against it-I am pretty sure that the examples I have read, that men here have been upset about, aren’t at all feminism or common sense. It just may that it’s bad behaviour from both genders without considered resolution.

      There’s a lot of male behaviour that is expected of them and they are sold down the river by it- I dont ever think men have to defend bad messages-if they dont agree with it they dont have to.
      The porn industry(mafia-run and controlled)
      devalues intimacy or any love and sells, markets to men an idea that is largely boring and sadist. And sell 1000’s of version of the same thing- is that not devaluing men via commerce ?The mafia have succeeded in manipulating the internet market and making sexual activity robotic and so obviously propping up viagra/cialis companies.
      Does this make sex what it could be in terms of intimacy? Not at all.
      Likewise,Why should men accept/replace male bonding over loving their partner?

      Richard Dawkins denounces the Pope and the Catholic Church-he stands against abuse of children- he does not have to agree with
      other men who say that exisitng male frameworks that support paedos
      are good enough.  He says abusive bastards and makes the distinction between bad behaviour and good behaviour in men.

    • James says:

      12:24pm | 18/04/10

      Eli, I think you might want to read what i wrote a bit more carefully. 

      As for Al the TOOLman, you are exactly the sort of bloke who would convince women that men are a pack of dodos.  Do blokes everywhere a favour by not “defending” our achievements.

    • Eric says:

      10:07am | 19/04/10

      James, your silly list has been thoroughly debunked and all you can do is call people names.

      The fact is that men invented most of everything, both the good things and the bad things. Women have gained much more than they have lost due to the efforts of men, and now live comfortable lives that are seven years longer than our own.

      Why do you hate men, James?

    • James says:

      03:10pm | 19/04/10

      About the list, whatever you reackon buddy, if you think you have “debunked” it you are welcome to believe that.  I don’t hate men I am a men, I think there are alot of very one sided people out there that need correcting that is all.

    • Eric says:

      09:42am | 20/04/10

      James, everything you have posted in this thread has been an attempt to put down men and elevate women.

      Why do you hate men so much?

    • James says:

      01:24pm | 20/04/10

      Nonsense, I am merely trying to restore balance to the force.  Men have done many fine things, women have done many fine things.  A battle between sexes is futile and can never be won, it is like two legs on the same person fighting each other, it is rediculous.  Lets stop treating each other as the enemy.

      Why not acknowledge the good in the other, rather elevating yourself by putting others down.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      09:19pm | 06/08/10

      Peter says men adore women.

      Eric says men love and protect women.

      Right now I am listening to a rap song, while Two and a Half Men is playing on TV, and I am reading comments by Ray during commercial breaks for beer where a woman’s bum and breasts are framed,  and the headline staring at me from today’s paper says ‘women GP’s paid 25% less than their male counterparts” a pig just flew by my window.

      Love and protection indeed.

    • persephone says:

      08:03am | 15/04/10

      Germaine Greer is not feminism.

    • Formersnag The Child Protector. says:

      09:26am | 15/04/10

      @ Persephone, of course i agree wholeheartedly, there are other “leading lights” in the feminist movement, or was that “revolution” quoted in the article.

      There is Betty Friedan author of “Feminine Mystique”. The symptomology, her husband describes, in her, “violent attacks on him” would fit perfectly, with a diagnosis of BPD or, “borderline personality disorder” an extremely serious mental illness, which can produce either unstable violence, or cold, evil, sociopsycopaths, at least, according to some of Australia’s best Psychiatrists Anyway.

      They also say it is more common in women than men and under reported/diagnosed.

      http://www.savethemales.ca/000185.html

      BTW, how come no comments on the DV article or answers to any of my questions, on it, so far.

    • BTS says:

      10:22am | 15/04/10

      The author here seems to hold a candle to Germaine.

      ‘It’s time to put our “I Heart Germaine” t-shirts away for another year now International Women’s Day has passed.’

    • Peter says:

      12:21pm | 15/04/10

      These feminist these days ARE communists. That’s why we have to be on guard to protect our freedoms…

    • Formersnag The Child Protector. says:

      08:58pm | 15/04/10

      @ Peter, No, “not these days” always, & still are. Some “fun facts” for your reading pleasure or to “chill you to the core”.
      1, First appearance of, “politically incorrect” propaganda leaflets from the USSR, circa 1920’s.
      2, CPUSA, active on feminism & many other subversive issues in the 1930’s, under instructions from Moscow, who also, sent similar messages to communists everywhere, in the NON communist world.
      3, “the vagina monologues” includes a scene, between a 12 year old girl & 26 year old woman.
      4, Feminism never, ever, happened, behind the iron curtain, they wanted, “happy, harmonious” families at home, with men, in a position of leadership, they only promoted feminism for their enemies, outside the iron curtain.

      Feminists broadly fall, into the following main categories.
      1, lesbians.
      2, communists/socialists.
      3,  mentally ill, usually as a result of trauma, but not always by men. Germain, hated her mother, pitied her father, for being abused by his wife & not protecting her.
      4, a combination of all, the above.
      5, innocent dupes, who were conned by the propaganda.

      Of course, “real women” who reject feminism, always have known, that their gentlemen, partners, fathers, etc, have always loved & protected them.

    • Peter says:

      10:46am | 16/04/10

      @ Formersnag, your right.. some people call this thing a movement. All i see is bitter rich chicks just being bitter. They study feminism is school and wonder why they can’t make as much money as men..  They deny that men love their families. What they feminist want is the OPTION of having a father in their childrens life or not. They have no regard for their kids, just their own bitter selfishness… They think they have a right to other peoples money so they can keep legitimate fathers out of the picture.. They are awful awful disgusting people…

    • Rachel says:

      09:28am | 17/04/10

      @ Formersnag - ‘real women’ are those who exist.  Nothing to do with feminism - any woman is a ‘real woman’. If you can touch her she’s real.

      If you want a certain type of woman who wants to be protected, go out and find her, but your choice in partner is nothing to do with other women who don’t want to be like your ‘ideal mate’.  You can’t force women to want to be protected and be submissive (like a 50’s housewife). 

      The roles are changing - women are no longer housewives who stay at home and look after their kids and men are no longer the sole breadwinners.  In fact a lot of women go back to work and more men are staying home with their kids instead. That doesn’t make them ‘not a man’. 

      People need to realise there is really not that much difference between men and women, other than physical differences (ie. men are obviously stronger generally) and when they are in a partnership, they are equal. That is what feminism has been striving for.

    • Tara says:

      07:58am | 15/04/10

      Thank you for writing this article Daniela. It pains me so much to see that women are so blind to their own situation. A lot of my (male and female) friends have said similar shocking things such as “feminism is expired” and “things were levelled a LONG time ago, women can do whatever they want”. These sorts of attitudes are perpetuating discrimination against women and stagnating the fight against it.

      People seem to use the word ‘feminism’ as a derogatory term to disregard the whole movement towards gender equality as something that is unfashionable and only for bra-burning lesbian man-haters. Personally, i think people would find a way to do this even if the term ‘feminism’ was changed to something more gender-neutral.

      I do not believe that equality between the sexes has been reached. As Daniela mentioned, there continues to be a significant gap between what women and men are paid for equal work. In Australia, this gap is widening in relation to other countries (check out the report released by the World Economic Forum last year). It is still very difficult for women to rise to the top of business or politics due to a persisting perception that they are not cut out for it (please compare the number of female CEOs to the number of male, or the number of female MPs to the number of male, or the number of female artists in the JJJ hottest 100).

      Also, women are much more likely to suffer domestic abuse than men in all sectors of the Australian community. I believe that this is partly due to a widespread and ingrained lack of respect for women as equal human beings. We can also look to television, movies and advertising to see the continual portrayal of women as sexual objects, without the same capacities for rational thought as men.

    • Ray says:

      08:56am | 15/04/10

      Tara with all due respct every issue you have annotated is heavily tinted with feminist paranoia. To wit

      First para: the present discrimination is against men not women.

      Second para: change ‘femnism’ to more gender neutral? Why, it is gender specific as is our discrimination legislation.

      Third para: The unequal pay is a misnomer and mere folklore. Our socially engineered education system ensures that across the board women are better educated, better paid because of it, but have lesser incomes because of work hours and dare I say it, ability.
      CEOs, politicians and artists on JJJ top 100?. These can all br placed in the category do the time have the dedication and ability and you will get there.

      Fourth Para: Domestic abuuse; Well I think the jury is well and truly out on that one.

      Don’t raise television, movies and advertising as you will lose thay one on the way men are portrayed, and celebrated as bumbling dumb clots, or subject of violence by overplayed female roles particularly female law officers shooting men like ducks in a pond.
      The rational thought matter. Well you have succinctly destroyed your own argument with a resounding effort of irrational thought.

      Summarily Tara, Feminism is an offence to right thinking people. The architect of political correctness and the master (mistress) of spinning of misrepresentative surveys or statistics into folklore that eventually becomes fact.

      Try boys education, Family Law Act and its application, conviction and sentencing in general law for like offences, unemployment, university degrees, health funding (eg protate/breast cancer), early death for men, affirmative action partivularly in the workforce etc/etal.

      Men need to agree to a solution such as: Make a weekly payment to women of $100 over their working life as a tax free gratuity to women on the basis that if women do not run the world by 2015 that this payment be doubled on a 10 year rolling basis until women run the world, and women agree that men have been fully subjigated. Any defaulters on the payment be sentenced to one night over with Sharron Burrows. Recidivist defaulters sentenced to two nights over with Eva Cox. No paraole.

      More seriously women have become a very unattractive option with their endless requests for special treatment, advantage, and protected species status. Just give it away before all respect disappears.

    • Shannon says:

      09:32am | 15/04/10

      I disagree 100% with your comment on domestic abuse. Women are much more likely to REPORT domestic abuse, because they are encouraged to do so and men that abuse their partners are considered the scum of society. Though stop and think for a minute about how many women slap their husbands across the face, verbally abuse and belittle them? Yet, if a man admits to this he is considered a sissie and is berated as a male. If males were encouraged to speak out about domestic abuse isn’t of being ridiculed for it, then your entire argument would go out the window.

      Back on the original topic, I think feminism has lost relevance. It’s no longer about equal rights, its simply about ‘how can we gets what’s best for us’. Females gravitate towards safer, less physically demanding jobs (generally speaking). How is it reasonable to expect an admin clerk should be paid the same as an underground miner? The only way to bridge this so called ‘pay gap’ is to encourage more women to work in trade and shift positions. But suprise, the majority of females I know do not want to work in these areas. You want more pay girls? Female engineers are in big demand…

      I believe women do not want true equality. If they did they’d get turned away from night clubs, would have to ask for their dates and buy their own drinks. They’d be appalled at how much more funding breast cancer research gets compared to prostate cancer and men’s health in general. They’d be called leeches for staying at home to look after their child while the other partner works.

      Gender bias exists in both directions. Where’s the masculinism movement?

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      09:53am | 15/04/10

      Tara :  my own reaction to the word ” feminism ” , after years of watching the likes of Germaine Greer tearing the heart of femininity out of the female species , is one of great distress and disappointment .
      Your second paragraph states the situation very clearly. The word is seen , used , and understood to be derogatoty. The ” feminist ” movement must take the responsibility for that result.
      ” .......this is partly due to a widespread and ingrained lack of respect for women as equal human beings. “
      This seems to be a greatly exaggerated view of men in general . Most men with whom i associate , do not take that position or view , in fact , they respect and treat women as equals .  I understand that those men who do take that view would stoop to domestic abuse but they are in the minority.
      Tara , i am 65 years old , happily married 39 years , 3 children . My whole life has been one of deeply ingrained admiration and respect for women .  What i believe should be treasured and maintained by the female is her femininity , which is her major strength as an individual.
      The ” feminist ” movement tended to strip femininity from women and perhaps that is why you percieve , in some men ,  the attitude which
      you see as perpetuating discrimination against women.
      I believe that women have won equality in many spheres , but at the price of femininity in many cases . Equality can be won and femininty can be retained .
      Stay with the fight for equal pay for equal work . It can be won . Please believe it when i say most men agree with you.

    • AliceC says:

      09:44am | 15/04/10

      @Shannon

      All domestic violence is a problem, again men, women, and children and needs to be stopped. However, based on the fact that on average men are physically stronger than women, the odds of a man severly hurting or killing a woman compared to the other way around is higher. Basiclaly, shouldn’t we all be fighting against domestic violence in all forms, instead of gender bashing?

      @Ray

      If men are being discriminated againt, then they need to bring it to the media’s attention and fight it, the same way women have done for decades. At least you’ve always been able to vote, own land, etc. S

      ame with men’s health issues. If there is an issue you feel passionalty about (i.e. prostate cancer), organise charities, raise awareness and money. Don’t just state that men have it worse and leave it at that.

      This is the reason why there was a feminist movement. Women were sick of being treated as second class citizens and they did something about it. It took hard work and a lot of years, but progress was made.

      If you feel genuinley passionate baout something, then do something about it, don’t belittle the struggle women have had over the centuries.

    • Eric says:

      10:19am | 15/04/10

      AliceC: “Basiclaly, shouldn’t we all be fighting against domestic violence in all forms, instead of gender bashing?”

      Yet gender-bashing is what actually happens. On the same page of The Punch as this article is one about “violence against women”, which is all about blaming men for everything. Again. Maybe you should go there and express your objection to the author.

    • Shannon says:

      10:08am | 15/04/10

      @AliceC You equate domestic abuse to physical abuse, which isn’t true. As any victim of schoolyard bullying will tell you, verbal and mental abuse is just, if not more, damaging than a punch. And women seem to be very good at ridiculing and belittling the opposite sex to the point where they feel they have no self worth in a relationship. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not justifying wife beating - though I think if feminism was about true equality then women need to take responsibiltiy for their behaviour in a relationship, as well as men.

    • Smidgeling says:

      10:21am | 15/04/10

      Tara- No, actually men are more likely to suffer domestic violence in general, women usually just suffer from the more extreme cases. That moody, irrational, abusive behaviour that women subject men to and claim it’s because they’re hormonal is classed as domestic violence.

      Alice- Yes, we should be fighting all types of domestic violence. But are we- no. I haven’t seen an advert targeting violence against men yet. And f there was, there would be a feminist movement claiming it was sexist, that women couldn’t possibly be abusive.

      Heaven forbid the ad even insinuate “that time of the month” might be involved, despite widespread admittance from women that their husbamds suffer during that time.

      Pay gap crap? Piffle. We all know the figure doesn’t take into account women’s choices to put in differing hours, differing years of service or differing skills. We also don’t acknowledge that AWAs were recently scrapped. You know, the things that let people negotiate their own pay. ie meen are more likely to ASK for the pay increase.

      Alice- are you proposing that because women had to fight against oppression, that we should make men do the same now? Haven’t we moved past the tit-for-tat stuff yet? Or do you suggest we have a stolen generation of caucasians too?

    • AliceC says:

      10:51am | 15/04/10

      @Eric

      At what point does the author say “This is all men’s fault, let’s blame the men”?

      @Shannon

      I agree, all forms of abuse, physicial or not is damaging, and yes, everyone needs to take repsonsibility for their actions. I too was a victim of school yard bullying, both physicla and verbal, and both were unpleasent.  All I was trying to point out is that in a physical domestic violence situation, men are on average stronger than women (which makes sense based on our caveman history, unless you believe Genesis, but we won’t open that can of worms!), and therefore can possibly inflict more physical damage.

      @Smidgeling

      My entire point was that if you see an issue that needs awareness raised, DO SOMETHING! I’m not talking tit-for-tat, I’m talking about the power a person has to make a change. Don’t just say ‘poor me, it’s all the femenists fault’ and leave it at that.

    • Ray says:

      11:09am | 15/04/10

      AliceC. I do my representation to politicians the media and these forums. As a male I also have an obligation to work for my family. I do not have a Minister for Women representing me. I do not have legislation sduch as the Discrimination (Against Women) Act, I don’t have an Office for the Status Women representing my interests.

      One could ask why is this necessary if we are a more enlighted educated and egalitarian society which seeks fairness to all, but goes down a path of discrimination to achieve un-named ends.

      And I suppose the greatest discrimination is the deaths of men in all wars. Remember Margaret Thatcher before you go down the path of who causes wars for political expediancy

    • Smidgeling says:

      11:18am | 15/04/10

      Alice- Did you read my whole post? Sure, I can participate in movember. I can advocate funding for prostate cancer. But past that, what can I actually do?

      And more to my point that you didn’t read it entirely- witrhout a position of power, there isn’t a great deal one can do about domestic violence against men when it is downplayed by society. When men are told to “man up- it’s just a slap” by society.

    • Ray says:

      11:40am | 15/04/10

      Smidgeling- Yes we do have stolen caucasian generations. They are the children stolen from fathers by the Family Court

    • BTS says:

      11:31am | 15/04/10

      Isn’t this article about women saying poor me?

    • AliceC says:

      11:44am | 15/04/10

      @Smidgeling

      For your info, I know a man who was raped. When I found out, I insisted he go to the police and report it, but he was scared of their reaction. So yes, I understand perfectly the concept of violence against men being downplayed by society.

      Yes, there is Movember. How do you think this came about? Someone came up with the idea and did it. Heart disease is a big issue for men, why don’t you start a fuindraising or awareness campaign about it? I am not being sarcatic at all, I am being serious. The power is in your hands to create awareness.

      @Ray

      There would be no need for a Discrimination Act is people didn’t discriminate. And the act represents all people, not just one gender.

    • Ray says:

      11:54am | 15/04/10

      AliceC, you are wrong. Blog it. The Federal Act is labelled
      Discrimination (Against Women) Act.

      I have retained a response to me from this erstwhile organisation that states (i) ‘it is not illegal to discriminate against men in education’  (ii) ‘it is illegal to discriminate against women in education’. Beat that. So if State Laws happen to differ just appeal to the higher level.

    • persephone says:

      02:10pm | 15/04/10

      BTS

      but the comments appear to be from men saying the same.

      Poor little oppressed petals.

    • Smidgeling says:

      02:12pm | 15/04/10

      Alice- You say the power is in my hands to do something about it, yet women refuse the idea that men suffer from domestic violence nearly as often as them.

      Sure, you know one gy who got raped. Wowie. So if you were faced with a man bleeding from scratches on his face and slap marks on his cheeks in addition to a woman with a black eye, who would you assume is the aggressor? What would the police do? We all know the bloody answers to these questions so stop pretending one person can change the attitude.

      The only thing that has ever broken a cycle like this is a martyr to suffer for the cause.

    • BTS says:

      07:15pm | 15/04/10

      Persephone:

      They do, but maybe they are trying to balance things out.  Men should have the right to say ‘poor me’ too don’t they?

      When did you see the last male punch journo write that we should be holding on to our masculine ways, promoting male issues and the rights of men in society? 

      You won’t they’re too brow beaten, they would be howled down the female journos, who would refuse to allow it to go to print.

      The most blokiest they get is Penbo beating his chest about the latest ‘fat’ food. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

    • Jamie says:

      10:57am | 16/04/10

      Smidgeling and BTS - Let me just note my opinion: A large amount of the oppression or ridicule you will face when it comes to men reporting abuse by their wives/females are from other men. And it won’t be because they’re male feminists or are browbeaten. It’s because a lot of men think these abused guys aren’t masculine or macho enough.

      Just look at comments on articles where a man reports being raped or abused by a woman. Plenty of the comments ridiculing the victim are made by men who are busy laughing at the victim. Talking to other people, I get the same impression. Men being the victim? They must not be macho or strong enough so the victim shares or takes the blame, that’s the comments I get from either gender. Not all men/women think like that, but you can’t deny plenty enough do.

      I agree that some issues related to the male gender have been painfully neglected. But I also say that you cannot attribute all of it to feminism. A lot of it is due to the machoism and masculine pride that many guys project and try to maintain. If this is not recognised, chances of success for any movement is poor.

      The feminism movement started when no women were in power. To say that to get issues faced by men recognised by society is impossible because you are not in power does not seem to match history.

      One last thing to everyone: Women’s rights have gone far in this country. But a lot of people rally behind women’s rights because it is only starting to emerge in many countries around the world. That is one of the reasons why it is still an ongoing issue for so many of us.

    • roger says:

      02:44pm | 16/04/10

      You belief “women are much more likely to suffer domestic abuse ” is a myth.  8% of women and 7% of men are victims of domestic voilence. Report from the Uni of NSW - Aust Domestic and Family Violence clearing house.  -  http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/.../Men_as_Victims.pdf

    • Talon says:

      04:06pm | 16/04/10

      @Tara - Physical abuse yes.  However men suffer and suffer more often at verbal and psycological abuse.  These rarely leave a bruises and are so rarely reported.  I do “NOT” condone physical abuse of women but I also do not tolerate any abuse toward men.

      Playing the domestic abuse card in a closing statement does not end any argument.  Nor does an, off the beated track, point tactic.  Men may close their mouths and think it is pointless (Yes we know and dislike it) to to say anything but I am all about education.

    • OddCreature says:

      06:16pm | 17/04/10

      “I believe women do not want true equality. If they did they’d get turned away from night clubs, would have to ask for their dates and buy their own drinks. They’d be appalled at how much more funding breast cancer research gets compared to prostate cancer and men’s health in general. They’d be called leeches for staying at home to look after their child while the other partner works.”

      Typical - go straight for the gender stereotypes.

      Just so you’re aware, I have never let a man buy me a drink unless I was paying the next round. And there is more fundraising for breast cancer because women bothered to get off our bums and raise awareness over the last two decades. Tell me, did you grow a mo last November?

      We CAN be equal, and that should be the goal. Right now there are aspects in which women are worse off, and aspects where men are worse off, and I’m sorry but I simply can’t believe that what we have now is the best we can ever hope for. We need to make improvements for BOTH genders, and labelling all women as floozies that just want free drinks is really not gaining you boys any sympathy.

      I know plenty of you men think that if you campaign for your rights you’ll be labelled as sexist… but have you ever actually tried it? Get a few corporations to donate to mens health, open a mens only gym, have a rally to raise awareness of domestic violence against men… and if you get labelled sexist, so what? At least women can say we’ve tried, instead of sitting around and whining.

    • Bec says:

      08:09am | 15/04/10

      I think I was a more angry, hostile and man-hatey person in the time of my life before I started calling myself a feminist. It was primarily the self-loathing, I think, as a rape victim. When you wear the glasses of those traditional views about men and women, the negative stereotypes are obvious to you in everyone you meet. I think that learning about feminism informs the quality of the relationships I have now: I get on far better with my dad and brother, and it inspired me to have a career working in boys literacy, in particular with boys most disadvantaged by the status quo. For me, feminism isn’t about hating men: it’s about expecting a high standard for, and from, everyone, including myself.

    • AliceC says:

      09:44am | 15/04/10

      @BEc

      Well said!

    • Tane says:

      11:52am | 15/04/10

      Bec, that’s not ‘feminism’ as I understand it, but whatever you want to call it, I like it and I’m all for it.

    • bec says:

      03:34pm | 15/04/10

      Tane, you keep using this word “feminism”. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    • what the says:

      09:06am | 16/04/10

      As fanstastic the steps you have taken in life are, I think you’ve just redefined feminism.  You’ve empowered yourself, but it doesn’t seem to have anything to do with feminism?

    • bec says:

      11:56am | 16/04/10

      You know, it’s really jarring, as someone who actively and intuitively lives by feminist principles to be told that what I do and what I believe isn’t feminism - as though my propensity for wearing skirts and makeup precludes me from it. That’s your narrowness of thinking here, not mine.

      I don’t believe for a second that men and women are the same at everything, or have the same advantages bestowed upon them by biology, or even have the same backgrounds and experiences. I believe, however, that they are entitled to equal and fair treatment under the law, protection from discrimination, equal representation in various institutions and arenas, and a right to follow whatever life path it is that they wish, free of constraints of expectations about their ability or aptitude. I want to see more male kindergarten teachers, nurses and receptionists. I want to see men living longer than they are currently, but that won’t change until men as a generic group change their lifestyle habits and risk-taking behaviours drastically, and start seeing their doctors more frequently.

      I hate the negative stereotypes attached to either gender and I’m sick of being told that boys don’t read and that girls aren’t good at maths. I’m sick of the culture which says that women who wear short skirts out at night can expect to be raped, because it’s misanthropic: it hates women, and denotes that all men are uncontrollable animals who have no restraint. I hate that extreme femininity and masculinity have become commodified for idiots who have no personality or capacity for independent thought to fill in the void of their empty soul, and I especially hate that femininity is denigrated and assigned as being lesser than masculinity. I strongly wish that everybody would stop holding themselves back from doing whatever it is that they like just because it’s “blokey” or “girly”: my love of fishing is by no means diminished by my love of cooking and fancy soaps.

      I believe in both respecting the people who made it possible for me to vote, inherit property, have my own bank account, and keep a job in the public sector after I get married, but I also believe in criticising them when their viewpoints and opinions are inhumane or illogical. I don’t consider Germaine Greer to be someone I look up to because she’s homophobic, transphobic, has no time for the perspectives of non-white women, and that whole creepy book about thirteen year old boys was too much. My feminism is no less radical or sincere just because I am inclusive in my outlook. I am excited to hear about younger women and women across the globe redefining feminism and making their communities more positive places for all citizens, and I get even more excited when a legitimate, fresh challenge to what we consider feminism is brought up. I

      Every day I consider myself lucky that I get to be involved in the rearing of intellectually curious, community-minded citizens who have more options open to them than any other generation of men before them: they deserve to do whatever they want to do.

    • Wynn says:

      02:35pm | 16/04/10

      Wow, Bec. What you said. Exactly.

    • Kevin11 says:

      08:31am | 15/04/10

      Channel 9 is the new dirty word. Feminism is old hat and Greer is a lazy target. Why not do some hard hitting controversial journalism and pull the lid off male rednecks (and cameramen) in the media?

    • Julia says:

      08:39am | 15/04/10

      When you see all the things that feminism has delivered, it’s easy to turn away from it somewhat.

      If the feminists had stuck to equal rights at work, equal pay, fair treatment in the courts, property ownership - basically the economic things that would deliver women from poverty and destitution - then I probably would still have a little feminist in me.

      But the day Merle Thornton chained herself to the Regatta in Brisbane saw the chipping away of social mores with regards to drinking. I wonder if Merle understood what young women would become on Friday and Saturday nights, if she would have bothered with the right to drink in a pub?

      Germaine Greer pushed for the right to have sex like a man. So as well as giving women some control over their reproductive systems, and preventing pregnancies, we have the most promiscuous generation since the Romans.

      When it came time for me to bear a child, I found that men still won’t give up a seat for you even though my gut was huge and the cankles were killing me. When I started to carry the baby in my arms with the four or five other bags I always seem to carry now, seldom was a door opened for me. (Except that nice boy at the Courier Mail building the other week.)

      The last thing they did was push for women to have access to government benefits (later shifted to the father) if they have a baby out of wedlock. This became a cash cow for women intent on not getting an education (Wollstonecraft would roll over in her grave). When the Child Support Agency was formed it was even more money and it crippled men and their new families (ie other women) financially. What feminists should have done was push for support until a woman was educated and could find a job then they could work, pretty much like the rest of us.

      Yeah, I get it that there is domestic abuse, there are still women living in poverty and the ongoing gap in earnings between men and women is still about one-quarter. Personally I don’t care about how much more a bloke earns, provided I have enough for me.

      And I still support anything which reduces violence. All violence, not just domestic violence. You have to wonder why there are so many angry young men out there.

      All the things the feminists pushed for have delivered some pretty rotten outcomes in society today.

      It’s no wonder we’re ‘over it babe’.

    • BTS says:

      09:57am | 15/04/10

      You have to wonder why there are so many angry young women out there.

    • N says:

      11:01am | 15/04/10

      Actually, people (both male and female) don’t stand up for pregnant women, hold doors open, etc because they are rude, not because of “equality”. As a woman I regularly offer my seat to both men and women who obviously need it - ie pregnant, disabled, elderly. It’s the way I was raised. Same with doors, if I get to a door before anyone else, I will hold open for the other person coming through, whether male or female. The look of surprised appreciation actually amuses and saddens me at the same time. We are no longer polite to each other. And this is from a woman in her 30’s.

    • BTS says:

      11:48am | 15/04/10

      Too right N.

      We found more courteous people, more door openers (sometimes waiting ten metres away) in New York than here in Australia.

    • D says:

      11:40am | 15/04/10

      Julia, you are spot on!

    • Laura says:

      02:02pm | 15/04/10

      Julia, I see what you’re saying, but I disagree. Your argument seems to be that because some bad things came out of a push for gender equality (aka ‘feminism’) it wasn’t worthwhile.

      Of course there are idiots out there - both male and female. You talk about whether Merle Thornton should have bothered fighting for the right for women to drink in pubs considering the idiot women out there who now act fairly disgracefully. But there are idiots of both genders who will ruin it for everyone. Just because some people can’t control themselves doesn’t mean an entire gender should be banned. The point of feminism is that both males and females should have the right to do these activities. Whether certain individual members of either sex should be stripped of those rights is another matter, but it should be about the individual, not based on a stereotype.

      Also, you’ve mentioned the “most promiscuous generation since the Romans” as a result of a push to have “sex like a man”. Feel free to condemn casual sex or promiscuousness as a whole if you’re against it, but why should women suffer the censure alone? History tells us men have been promiscuous for far longer, and it’s been accepted simply as part of their nature. In today’s society little has changed. Women who sleep around are regarded as sluts, and men who sleep around are regarded as heroes, or at the very least, there’s little negative comment said about them. Openly, the world has accepted women’s sexual equality, but there’s still a stereotype that men are naturally more sexual than women, and therefore can’t help themselves. In reality, this is as insulting to men as it is to women. 

      In my opinion, feminism has evolved somewhat. Initially it was about taking a stand against the more obvious discriminations, such as women’s right to vote. But these days, I think it’s more about getting rid of the obvious gender stereotypes that plague our society - both for women and men.

      When you turn on the TV, you’ll see a litany of ads for cleaning products and easy to cook meals for those “busy mums” out there. The only time you’ll see a man in those ads is when they’re trying to push just how easy the product is to use, the message being “even your husband could do it”.

      Similarly, women are expected to stay home with the kids because that’s their ‘role’. It’s this ingrained mentality that’s the problem. Of course it makes sense for women to stay home to recover from the birth and to breastfeed if they choose. But after that, the decision for a mother or father to stay home should be based on what works for the family, and any special considerations should be offered to both genders. When I have children, if it makes sense for me to stay at home with them, of course I will. But if it makes sense for my husband to stay home with the children, I would fully expect him to, and I see no reason he shouldn’t receive the same benefits I would have received had I chosen to stay home with the kids.

      This is my view of feminism - changing society’s stereotypical view of gender roles, and ultimately making things fair for men and women, whilst still acknowledging the difference needs of each gender.

      And based on that, I’m proud to be a feminist. I believe I should be paid as much as any man in an equivalent position and skill level to me is paid. I believe that the domestic arrangements (eg. cooking and cleaning) for my household should be organised according to what works best for my household, and should not be based on prehistoric gender stereotypes. If I go out on a date, and a man insists of paying, I would expect to pay the next time. And if I chose to be promiscuous, and you judge me for it, then I expect you to judge my character, not my gender.

      There are some feminist extremists that seem to want atonement for the ‘sufferings’ of women through history, and I understand that since these extremists make good news, this is often the popular view of feminism and the reason men and women alike are turned off the issue. But just because I don’t agree with extremist religious people doesn’t mean I should ignore the basic values behind their beliefs, such as love, goodwill and respect. I think it’s the same with feminism. Just because there’s some entertaining sensationalist screaming for the blood of all men doesn’t mean that the central message of feminism should be ignored. And in my opinion, the central message of feminism is the idea that people are judged as people, and treated accordingly, not judged based on gender, and treated according to popular stereotype.

    • Vicki PS says:

      06:00pm | 15/04/10

      @mike j:  Quote “Look at the richest people in the world… most don’t get there by earning a wage, they are entrepreneurs who make that money themselves, through their own initiative, and not through handouts and tokenism”

      One thing feminism did that I am very sad to see lost is an understanding of the sources of economic power.  The richest people in the world got there by using other people’s money and other people’s effort.  For every ‘entrepreneur’ on the Forbes list there are thousands of failed, dishonest, incompetent business gamblers who lost, usually taking the earnings of a lot of workers down the tubes with them.

      The romance of the entrepreneur disappeared with Gordon Gecko, Alan Bond, Christopher Skase and the ‘80s.  Get over it, or better yet get over yourself.

    • Julia says:

      06:26pm | 15/04/10

      Laura, if you can point to anything where Greer says ‘sex for love’s sake and damn the gossips’ or Thornton says ‘two standard drinks only, girls’ then I’ll eat my words. But they didn’t.

      Greer’s Putsch movement from the 60s was all about sex whenever and with whomever, damn the consequences. It was about drinking and sex and writing about it when they’d sobered up (or not).

      And Thornton should have chosen a better stand. Perhaps a better choice was chaining herself to her desk when she was pregnant with her first child in protest of the law that required her to resign her job.

      I actually think feminists should have stuck to the economic issues which kept women powerless rather than the social issues which gave women power.

    • Laura says:

      08:03pm | 15/04/10

      But Julia my point was that whether you agree with the more extreme views or not, the fact is women were fighting for the rights that men took for granted. The core point is that men were already able to have “sex whenever and with whomever, damn the consequences” as well as “drinking and sex and writing about it when they’d sobered up (or not)”.

      Feminism to me is about the automatic acceptance that women are able to do the same as men. So you can argue that Greer and Thornton could have chosen better stands but that doesn’t discount the main point they were making, which was that they had the right to do anything a man did. 

      You can argue about the way that some feminists went about getting noticed, but it doesn’t mean that the whole feminist movement was a waste. Feminism means equal rights in all aspects of life, the “social issues which gave women power” as well as the “economic issues which kept women powerless”.

    • Blossom says:

      08:05am | 16/04/10

      Julia your comment on sex for love’s sake and damn the gossips’ deserves some comment from me. Dear you have to remember that times were different, The Pill had just been invented and for first time women could have sex without child bearing as a consequence . There was no aides, it was not here yet. The Boomers had a wild free youth, the protested, it was The Protest Era in The Western World. Times were very different to now and its an era I will treasure being apart of. We got out there and tried to change thing for the better, some things we did change, others we failed at but at least we did not sit at home whinging. We were leaner meaner and alot damn healthier than kids are today.

    • Tim says:

      08:50am | 15/04/10

      Oh not this gender pay gap again.
      It has been proven false time and time again.
      Why do people keep bringing it up?
      The pay gap is simply a product of people’s individual choices. If that’s the best feminism has to offer it’s not a surprise that so many are turning off.

    • Brando says:

      09:32am | 15/04/10

      So true Tim.

      If there’s a pay gap then let’s see the examples. Let’s see a man and a woman with similar skills, experience and seniority, working at the same place and being paid differently.

      When we find them prosecute the living daylights out of the employer, pay the woman back pay plus extra as compensation.

      Don’t hold you’re breath waiting because it won’t happen. I’ve been working for over thirty years and I’ve never come across an example of a woman doing the same job as a man and getting paid less for it.

      Their idea of a gender gap is that the receptionist at my office doesn’t earn as much as a labourer risking his life down a coal mine.

    • Greek Snake says:

      11:01am | 15/04/10

      @Brando: Why should the prosecute the employer? If one individual has pushed for pay rises and the other has not, why should the employer be at fault? If I was the employer, I would only pay what I had to pay to keep the staff I wanted.

      It has been shown in various surveys, men are more likely than women to ask for more money. Men are more likely to put their hands up for a role they don’t fit 100% while women would rather satisfy every single requirement of the job description before applying. For this reason, a bunch of under qualified men apply and the employers chooses the best of the bad lot.

      When an individual walks in and demands more money for the job they are doing, they are not fighting for every single person employed in the same position, they are arguing for themselves. Don’t blame the employer, they are doing what everyone would. Paying the least they can get away with.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:57am | 15/04/10

      Easy to fix lets have one pay rate for every job in the ountry. The CEO’s can earn the same as the receptionist at the front desk and it won’t matter which sex you are then.

      If you want more equality be sure to sterilize all the women so they cant have children and leave the workforce for extended periods because “Statistics suggest women earn about 5% less for each year they have been out of the workforce changing nappies than if they had kept their seat at the boardroom table.” What the hell does the author want by adding that statistic. What can we do, give pay increases to people not working? Thats why people hat feminism because there is no reality in it. Men and women are different.

    • KH says:

      11:14am | 15/04/10

      Actually, Brando, one of the problems is that in most companies (certainly in the one I work in) they don’t publish any pay ranges or scales, and the only way to know what other people are getting paid is if they actually tell you.  I for one have no idea what other people earn in my current job, unless I come across the information accidentally.  Which I did in my previous job.  I realised immediately that despite having similar years of experience, the same number of working hours and the same responsibilities, the 3 women in my team were all paid less (around $5K+) than the 4 men (not including senior people etc - just the team on the same level).  It was certainly quite strange, as one of the men had around 5 years less experience than everyone else on the team (we are all in the same age bracket, and overall, the women were older and actually had 1-3 years more experience on average, even discounting time off on maternity leave - yes I added it up) yet he got paid the same as the other men, and way more than the women.  Naturally we brought this up with management, and were pretty much ignored.  I simply up and left to go somewhere else. 

      Largely most people have to rely on industry statistics, which is presumably where these assertions about unequal pay are based.  In industries where there are awards and the like, it may not be so different (I don’t know, I’m just making observations) as there is a prescribed amount based on grades etc - in professional industries however, the ‘market’ determines pay, and often there are ranges depending on experience and competence in the job, and often don’t seem to have any relationship to either.  There is also the problem of maternity leave - many women stay in jobs longer so they can have their year off or whatever - meanwhile the market rates get higher, but pay increases don’t keep up with the market - thus new entrants to the company end up getting paid way more than those who have been there for x number of years.  I’m sure there are many reasons for the inequality - but the fact is that it does happen.  Perhaps you just haven’t experienced it.

    • bella starkey says:

      11:36am | 15/04/10

      @KH: i had a similar experience at my old job. Although it wasn’t the pay gap between men and women. I found out that an admin girl was earning 10k more than me, even though I was doing skilled work and she was 18 and doing filing. When i questioned my boss about it he told me I was a “cost centre” (ie publicity and marketing, not sales) therefore he couldn’t pay me more, besides work was scarce so I didn’t have any other options. I told him to take this job and shove it.

      The thing is, I would have had no idea unless this girl let it slip after a few drinks, and might still be getting screwed in the bum.

    • mike j says:

      01:20pm | 15/04/10

      Hey KH, here’s another of the ‘many reasons’ for the inequality:

      Business owners tend to pay higher wages to more valuable staff.

      See how that works? Oh, we’ve heard plenty of (personal) anecdotes about women who work so much harder and productively than their male counterparts but get paid less. The problem is that these stories are all either complete fabrications or inaccurate self-reports from clearly deluded individuals.

      I am no longer amused by the absurd suggestion that business owners (men AND women) will pay higher wages to employees who are male simply by virtue of their gender. I could be the most chauvinistic ass on the planet, but if you’re talking about the bottom line of my company, I’m going to hire the people who do the job, and grade their pay accordingly.

      There are obvious logistical reasons (e.g. family) that women are paid less, and these will be covered ad nauseam in this blog. Another perfectly logical reason for this discrepancy is the fact that men are more productive in the workplace.

      Oh no I di’n't? Look at the richest people in the world… most don’t get there by earning a wage, they are entrepreneurs who make that money themselves, through their own initiative, and not through handouts and tokenism. And the vast majority are? Men.

      Factor out any possibility of discrimination (e.g. remove the employer) and you will find that the most successful people in every field of human endeavour are men.

      Deal with it.

    • @BlokesLib says:

      08:42am | 15/04/10

      I think the whole term Feminism should be ditched for favor of the term Equality. We are all human beings, end of story.
      This argument about women earning less money overall due to needing to take time off work to have children is so weak. It totally fails to take into consideration the partner who often needs to work longer and harder hours to keep the money flowing during this period of the relationship (usually a male). He’s sacrificed, he’s worked harder, he’s carried the financial stress and yet articles like this make him out to be disproportionally advantaged.
      A partnership is a team, not a competition. Move on…

    • Peter says:

      09:14am | 15/04/10

      Well put BlokesLib I couldn’t agree more. By the way I looked at your website at http://BlokesLib.com is that you? Funny as all hell. Well done.

    • cal says:

      08:59am | 15/04/10

      The women that are paid less than men are those that either
      - don’t have the same skills
      - don’t have the same output
      - don’t make the same contribution
      - work in an entirely different industry
      - don’t negotiate for the higher salary

      If you had the same skills and experience in the same industry and worked the same hours and made the same contribution producing the same output and negotiated your salary based on this then you would be paid the same.

      I’m sick of these distorted stats being used to whine about any disparity. There isn’t one.

      If you want to be CFO of a Fortune 500 company then go and do an MBA and an accounting degree and work 15 hours per day for 20+ years and prove that you are the best person for the job.

      Don’t blame others or “sexism” if you fail.

    • Cam says:

      11:00am | 15/04/10

      Actually you probably wouldn’t be paid they same unless you’re on an award. Having just negotiated some 280 odd employment agreements, where my object (and duty) is to secure the best possible talent for the lowest possible agreed price (over generalising for simplicity):

      Me: How about $62,500?
      Woman: Ok.

      —-

      Me: How about $62,500?
      Man: I’m worth at least $67,500 and you know it.
      Me: Sure, how about $65,000?
      Man: Ok.

      Therein lies the ~$2000 disparity.

    • Cam says:

      11:26am | 15/04/10

      Just re-read your comment and realised I didn’t read it carefully enough the first time. I agree with you, wholeheartedly.

    • Formersnag The Child Protector. says:

      11:35am | 15/04/10

      @ cal, spot on.

      @ Cam, there is, one other huge, aspect you are forgetting to mention.

      That man, who allegedly, negotiates, more aggressively, almost always, has a wife, who is, an extremely, aggressive, negotiator, “by proxy”. Pressuring her husband, to “provide” more, for “herself” & “their children”.

    • Life On Mercury says:

      03:54pm | 16/04/10

      Cam - unfortunately, due to society’s perceptions of how each gender should “behave”, the negotiations can sometimes go like this:

      Employer: How about $62,500?

      Man: I’m worth at least $67,500 and you know it!

      Employer *thinks* This guy is assertive and confident! We want to keep him.

      Employer: Sure, how about $65,000?

      Man: Ok.
      ___

      Employer: How about $62,500?

      Woman: I’m worth at least $67,500 and you know it!

      Employer *thinks* This woman is aggressive and arrogant! We don’t want a woman like that working for us.

      Employer: Sorry, we’ll have to rescind our offer of employment. Goodbye.

      Woman *thinks* Next time I’ll just accept whatever they offer me.

    • Helen says:

      09:02am | 15/04/10

      FFS, why do we need to take Elle McPherson and Lady Gaga as gospel, anyway? Who made them boss of anything? And I’m not surprised that younger women get turned off feminism when “journalists” are endlessly recycling tropes from the early 70s. The bra burning thing DID. NOT. HAPPEN. Daniela, get off your arse (or rather, on it) and do some research, like, you know, a journalist. And get up to speed with some of the wonderful stuff being done in the blogosphere, where most good popular feminism is being done these days - we’ve moved on you know, like everyone else (except the tabloid media, of course!)

    • Nicole says:

      09:22am | 16/04/10

      THANK you Helen - bra-burning must have been referenced at least three times in the article. I get that this is an opinion piece not a scholarly article, but you would at least expect someone who writes for living to at least do a simple Google check before just crapping out off the top of your head and spouting out old myths like bra-burning. How tiresome.

    • the apologist says:

      09:15am | 15/04/10

      I think the feminist movement arose out of a legitimate concern for genuine wrongs; men and women are both (of course) of equal worth and should be treated accordingly. My problem with the ideology is that it attempts (generically speaking, and from my perspective) to disregard all differences between men and women as non-existent. Like it or not, there are differences; and lets face it, life would be no where near as good if there weren’t. It also tends to underplay and undervalue (even scorn) many of the things that are an intrinsic aspect of what it means to be a woman - to the hurt of society; not to mention the impact it has on men left in something of an identity crisis.

    • Rachel says:

      07:51pm | 15/04/10

      A lot of the non-physical differences between men and women are purely cultural.

      I find the jokes that people pass around offensive - the ones that assume all women like shopping, like to talk a lot about nothing, like make-up etc and the ones that assume all men like sports, don’t listen well, drink beer and always think about sex.

      There is so much difference in personalities between people that the differences that may exist between the genders become obsolete.  There are no real behavioural gender differences and the stereotypes out there for both genders are not correct and are even harmful.

    • G says:

      09:09am | 15/04/10

      More needs to change in regards to the wage disparity between the sexes. 

      However, I think it is an over simplification and also disingenuous to continue blaming all of the wage disparities on perceived outside influences surrounding women’s employment. 

      Legal requirements of the award does not discriminate, job positions are awarded to the individual not the gender at equal pay.

      The approximate 11 per cent hourly wage gap between the sexes can be more accurately attributed the differences in hours worked and position and industry type. 

      Higher numbers of women work shorter hours part-time and higher numbers of males work more hours per week. 

      Occupational segregation occurs in a lot of jobs (such as mechanic, builder etc) which are dominated by men, and other jobs (such as child care worker) are dominated by women.  These jobs are on average lower-paying and do not traditionally offer over time payments. 

      Accountability for this is really about a person’s choice about their vocation.

    • Gone Fishing says:

      09:26am | 15/04/10

      Why do women only strive to be equal, why not strive to be better?
      That shows lack of ambition, which is why men are still so far ahead.

    • Stupid arguments abound says:

      04:22pm | 15/04/10

      Are you serious? It’s not about one gender being better than the other - having two X chromosomes, or one X and one Y chromosome, does not implicitly make you better, or worse, than someone who is different.

    • marley says:

      09:39am | 15/04/10

      Well, you know, I grew up in the 60s, when “feminism” meant different things to different people.  To be a feminist didn’t necessarily mean to be a fire-breathing man-hater who thought society had been designed to subjugate women.  For quite a few of us, feminism meant simply that women could aspire to opportunities beyond marriage and kids - that, should we wish it, we would be able to pursue education and careers, and have opportunities and ambitions greater than those of our mothers. It meant that, if we were working, we weren’t forced to quit if we got married (those were the rules in quite large areas of the workforce back in the 50s).  It meant that we could compete on a level footing with men for jobs, and that we could get into fields which had been primarily male domains in the past - engineering, law, medicine, senior levels of the civil service.  Sometimes we got the jobs, sometimes we didn’t, but at least we were “in the game.”  And, the more competition for jobs, the bigger pool of talent management had to choose from, which was a good thing for the economy as well.

      None of what I thought of as feminism in the day required contempt for men or “affirmative action”  for women.  It just meant that women had the opportunity to compete on a level playing field.  I believed in that concept then, and I still do.

    • Ray says:

      10:37am | 15/04/10

      Marley, nice centiments. But men want the same. Also I’m so offended with ‘women forced to quit if they married’ misnomer. This was not discrimination against women but a social objective, rightly or wrongly, when it was done to ensure 1 income per family rather than 2 incomes to some and none to other families. Another distorted interpretation to suit the purpose. And guess what? The men did the work and were criticised for not being with their children..

      The greatest discrimination today, with culpable intent, is boys education and history will judge us poorly because of the ‘intent’.

      The sad thing is that feminism has bred generations of women who have an underlying, unashamed, contempt for men. They will say they like men then support education systems that fragantly disadvantage their male off spring, and know no better.

      Even historically men may have dominated but in general retained great civil qualities for the betterment of all. Admittedly some gained great fortunes along the way, but were generally egalitalitarian aka Bill Gates today.

      Women are generally after themselves and have lost me.

    • persephone says:

      11:51am | 15/04/10

      A friend of mine went to his employer and said, “My wife’s going back to work part time, I’d like to go part time too, so I can spend more time with my family.”

      He said that his employer simply didn’t get what he was talking about.

      “If I’d gone in there and said, “Mate, you’re underperforming, I’m better than you, and in a year’s time, I’ll be in your job” he’d have been far more comfortable.”

      As it was, he was eased out of the company over the next year - very aware as to what was happening and why, but not able to confront it.

      For women, taking time off work to look after children is what is expected of them. For men, it supposedly demonstrates a lack of commitment to their career.

      Look at the reaction to Hockey saying that he’d quit in an instant to take care of his kids.

      Until we reach a point where a man taking time off to look after his children is seen as normal, we won’t have equality.

    • marley says:

      01:45pm | 15/04/10

      Ray -  you may be offended, but “women forced to quit” is no misnomer,” it’s an historic fact.  Quite a few women of that era would have preferred to keep working, but were given no choice in the matter. If “society” (which, after all, includes women) made that choice, then society was wrong. It’s as simple as that.

      The right to make one’s own choices about one’s own life is fundamental to a free society, after all.  Thanks to feminism women now have those choices. 

      That’s my one and only point.

    • Ray says:

      07:21pm | 15/04/10

      Well guess what Marley, society today doesn’t include men. But to address your first response society may have been wrong (as I already said) but that doesn’t directly convert to it being discrimination against women. A flip side is that it could have been men who were discriminated against because men had to work and women didn’t. And men were deprived and still are from time with their children.

      I feel sorry for your lack of ability like all feminists to see matters objectively and absorb other views, than what women have been force fed since birth. Comes at birth with a get out of jail free card stamped ‘protected species’ requiring a leg up throughout life so they can claim gender superiority (not equity), and celebrate retardation or discreditation of men.

      If you get my drift men have had a gut full. Who gives a flying fig about respect to any species that seeks advantage over others. You won’t get it on my watch.

    • Rachel says:

      09:54am | 17/04/10

      Ray - I don’t think you know what discrimination means.  Discrimination means treating someone based on the group, class or category they belong to, rather than on individual merit.  So, forcing women to give up their jobs because they got married is obviously discrimination - the decision was made solely because of their gender.

      It seems like you are making the mistake of discounting any struggles that women face/faced because you feel that men are disadvantaged.  Why can’t both genders be disadvantaged in some ways?  It doesn’t have to be one or the other…

      I fully agree that there are unfair societal attitudes towards men, just as there are towards women.  It’s gender stereotyping at fault for the most of it.

    • Liz says:

      09:45am | 15/04/10

      Every generation invents it for themselves, does what it sees as necessary, let the new girls begin!

    • Lucy says:

      09:54am | 15/04/10

      I am a young woman (24) and a feminist.  I’m not afraid to say it because I’ve read some of the great second wave books like the Second Sex, The Feminine Mystique,  Sexual Politics and yes The Female Eunuch to name a few and made up my own conclusions about the world around me.  i think the reason many young women think feminism is not relevent is that they don’t read anything other than articles like this, that quote people like Lady gaga and Elle McPherson (hardly great or insightful thinkers, whatever you think about their professional careers). By holding these people up as an example Daniela you are legitimating their point of view and not actually talking about the experiences of women around the world in their everyday lives.  The above mentioned books connected with people because they expressed issues and thoughts that women everywhere were feeling but not discussing.  There is still so much work for feminism, including lobbying to close the pay gap, but also wider issues that resonate with everyone like figuring out how to balance the pressure that women feel to be equal to a man yet also to fit in having children with a fulfilling career at the same time.  One of the best pieces I’ve read this year was by Emma Albercici http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/08/2839983.htm  about how women “have it all “but miss out on a lot as well.

    • John says:

      12:25am | 18/04/10

      Lucy. I have to thank you tremendously. That article is absolutely brilliant.  I currently do not have children, but when my partner and I both decide to have them I know that the work environment I am in will allow me to have the time to do those things that article says many men don’t

      Interestingly however, in that article it says that women need to bring up their boys better, the only thing that article lacks is that so should men!

      I grew in a typical family of the father rarely being there due to work and the mother working at both raising us and working to bring in money. As a male in my 30’s I have deliberately decided that I do not want that for my own children.

      ‘Feminism’ ‘Equality’ or what ever you want to call it is something to be worked at by both women and men.

      As this article is about bridging the pay gap. Perhaps the best way to do that is not to try and ‘increase’ womens pay packets. It’s to get men to relinquish some of theirs to women to equalize them, and then to equalize the rest of their lives to.

    • Faye says:

      10:13am | 15/04/10

      Its funny that the lot of you are stomping your feet screaming about how feminism is ‘over’ and blah blah, but fail to see that most of the world is *not* developed.
      The majority of the world are still made out of developing countries with brow-beaten women stuck in patriarchal societies which step, spit and beat them to the ground over the most petty and personal issues.
      You women squawking about how feminism is obsolete and cite examples of ‘entry to clubs’ must have never travelled in your life, had a friend who wasn’t white and Aussie (save for the odd ‘coloured’ person) and certainly don’t have much going on above.
      Seriously you are stuck in your comfy little bubble.

      Sure, women in Australia have reached new levels of equality (and I term this loosely because there can be no true equality due to biological and individual differences in everyone - see the short film 2081 or the short story. Google it.) but you are but a drop in the wide, wide ocean.

      Women in undeveloped or developing countries still face tyranny in the snatching of their most basic rights - from control of their ovaries and womb (they are considered baby machines with no say in whether she can even suggest family planning or none at all.), to raising their child (if husband/society dictates she cannot breastfeed a child above x years old she must feed them with i.e. spoon and sugar water, which is detrimental to a child’s life).
      Forget personal freedoms since being the most basic thing - a mother - is controlled in her life.
      She has no life beyond servitude to her husband’s family.
      In some African and Arab cultures she cannot even leave her house to go to the market as it is considered ‘shameful’ for a woman to step out.
      Apparently only ‘loose’ women go to the market.

      She cannot say ‘no’ to her husband’s demands for sex - he can rape her even if she is sick, pregnant, injured, etc - she belongs to him, she cannot say ‘no’ to her parents’ choice in husband or future for her, she cannot say ‘no’ to society’s narrow gender role and perceived view of her.
      She doesn’t demand for equal rights or feminism, she only asks meekly that she be allowed to raise her child properly or doesn’t protest or demand pleasure shared if her husband demands sex but only have the ‘privilege’ of his understanding if she is sick or has to attend to the baby.

      I am sickened by the ignorance and apparent indifference to the situation of the world around us by we, the people living in developed countries.
      Quoting some nobody Lady Gaga and some one minute wonder beauty pageant woman on such a pressing and contentious issue - and the comments here - I am ashamed and quite sickened.

      We need rights and education for these rights for men and women. Not point blank and blind equality but fairness and the right to discuss and resolve an issue like proper, civilised human beings without oppression.

    • Anne71 says:

      12:29pm | 15/04/10

      Faye, very well said. Thank you.

    • Cranky says:

      01:40pm | 15/04/10

      Absolutely! Right now I live in Papua New Guinea, where some of the attitudes - and actions, often sadly violent - towards women are frankly shocking. In my own workplace I can cite some pretty unenlightened opinions regarding the ‘energy’ women have for certain types of work, through to a colleague who misses on average 3-5 days of work a months thanks to her husband’s violence at home. The issue becomes perplexing when PNG women themselves describe domestic violence and in-marriage abuse as being a fact of male-female relations - to the extent that some women ‘deserve’ to be breaten and raped by their husbands.

      Domestic violence and rape are awful things, they are prevalent in places like here and they are far from gone in ‘enlightened’ Australia (so enlightened indeed that we reduce debates about feminism to comparative pay scales and comments from celebrities). While ever these awful acts exist, and while ever attitudes that excuse these acts are perpetuated, then I would say thank goodness we have feminism.

    • MelD says:

      11:47am | 16/04/10

      But what gives us the right to determine what is right and wrong in developing countries? We go in and push our beliefs etc on these people when they may not want them.

      Change in these countries will not come from outside interferance, it can only come when the majority of the people actually in the country come together as a unit and say hey enough, we cannot force people to do what we want or have the same beliefs, we shouldn’t either, it needs to evolve on its own.

      I am not a feminist, I believe there are things men can do that women really shouldn’t, the feminist movement has killed chivalry.

      A lot of the feminist these days want double standards, equal pay? yes please, pay for the date no you keep that.

      In a crisis who gets to leave first? “at least let the women and children go” I am sure the men don’t want to be there either.

      bottom line, worry about what’s going on in our own country, leave the developing nations to do just that, develop at their own pace.

      How can women expect to be say partners in a law firm same equal as a man? man works over 100 hrs a week, woman 50 hours as she has to look after the kids, we want things to be equal? stop having children, simple

    • Rachel says:

      10:11am | 17/04/10

      @ MelD - I think we have the right to interfere in another country when women are being killed by their husbands, brothers or fathers for simply dishonouring them, and very often the perpetrators are not punished.  Women are the ones who are punished for being raped, not the men who do it.  It’s not interfering when there are injustices and when people don’t have the ability to stand up for themselves. 

      As for your work example - the problem is that if educated, employed women are not encouraged to have kids and it is detrimental to their careers to do so, less of them will. What this means for our society is that the more uneducated, unemployed women will still have children and society will be left with more less intelligent, less educated adults. The other option is that all people will have less children and the aging population will be in trouble in future to find doctors, nurses and service people to take care of them. Japan is one of the countries worried about that for their futures, with a constantly declining birthrate

    • Henry says:

      10:02am | 15/04/10

      The same tired old stats and big sook… “Women don’t earn as much as men…”  blah blah blah!

      Men often work a lot harder, longer, for longer periods, are more agressive, more driven, more innovative, better leaders and managers and take their jobs more seriously than their social lives/family lives (which I’m not saying is healthy).

      Stats on their own mean bugger all.  You need to look at each case on merit.

      Men and women are very different and each has strengths and weaknesses that the other lacks.  Also women look a lot better naked wink

    • Catherine Rose says:

      09:31pm | 06/08/10

      Men often work a lot harder, you say, Henry?  So what about those women that work full time and have 4 hours of domestic drudgery backing them up at home each night?

      Men are better leaders and managers?  Yeah I suppose it does take a special talent to come into the sales meeting on a Monday morning, admit how hung - over you are from the all weekend bender, and pick on a male team mate for being fat, and a female team member for not being able to read a map.

      More driven?  Sure, especially when it involves ogling the body of a woman in your team who keeps fit.

      Women are a lot better naked?  Tell that to the scores of women who can’t get enough of Jacob Black in all his shirtless glory.

    • Peter says:

      10:20am | 15/04/10

      C’mon Daniella, we live in a very prosperous society.. Why do you feel so downtrodden? What’s your beef? If bringing the pay balance between men and women to equal, we’ll be paying women just for being at home. That’s not how economies function well..

    • John Dark says:

      07:01pm | 17/04/10

      “we’ll be paying women just for being at home. That’s not how economies function well.. “
      Between the baby bonus, single parents pension and paid maternity leave - aren’t we doing that already?
      Pay people equally for the choice they make to work, not for the choice they make not to work. If they (male or female) wish to take time off, or go part time to raise their kids - let them. Just don’t pay them extra for the privilege of getting everyone else at work to take up the slack left by them.

    • Ray says:

      10:28am | 15/04/10

      Feminism. Women are just out of the market. They are so self centred and paranoid about their own perceived matters they have contaminated their own indoctrinated thinking.

      Men have been stripped of all identity and self worth to consequential significant social detriment. Men remain in the family unit by invitation only. Many young men start off in the family environment with stars in their eyes. They are subsequently told they don’t do their share (after working 70 hrs pw), and don’t contribute to the raising of their children. Eventually the wife decides on a cougar fantasy, leaves with the kids, receives child support, takes 75/80% of the assets and his super, and has the poor sucker of a father as the fortnightly weekend, free of charge carer, for the cougar weekends away she couldn’t have with her husband.  Eventually ditch the cougar fantasy and move on to the next poor sucker. Meanwhile maintaining the latte, mid day dinners, movies lifestyle with her female friends, collecting suckers’ super bounty along the way.

      I for one will never forgive women for the self absorbed creatures they are. A product of feminism, with no intent for egalitarian principles. Rather the emasculation and use of males to their own end.

      Still trot out things like right to vote. Federation 1901-2, women’s vote 1907 after 3 elections. Big deal, but dine out on that they will.

      And dine out on men with equal voracity.

      When women can recognise men’s contribution they may have equality even if only in their own head. If you travel you will see that Australian women just do not measure up. And the coup de grace is paid maternity leave. Australian women even without paid maternity leave, receive more procreation benefits put together than any of the other developed countries, and totalled they exceed paid maternity leave. Meanwhile I will continue to cover for them at work in their absence and watch them get promoted over the top of me on return on affirmative action principles. Women and their self promoting feminist doctrine are a legacy to society saved by their procreative inheritance.

    • Eric says:

      10:31am | 15/04/10

      Well said, Ray.

      Feminism is a hate ideology that has come to dominate our society. Anyone interested in genuine equality is in the men’s rights movement.

      http://www.mensrights.com.au/

    • Faye says:

      10:38am | 15/04/10

      So you would rather the male equivalent of feminism?

      What about the single mothers dumped by their husbands/boyfriends without so much as a cent to raise their child?

      When you feel the pain of it you scream the loudest, but when you don’t you ask ‘Why are you groaning?’
      Is that the kind of society you want?

      Not to mention, how would a woman look after her child if she didn’t take maternity leave, or upkeep their lifestyle if she didn’t?

      Just as if you claim medicare, some poor sucker is paying for your healthcare through his work.
      The same as maternity leave.

      I just think that fathers should get maternity leave too.

      You seem to be more interested, instead of actual equality or fairness, are lamenting the effects of ‘feminism’ whereas the true reason is because it hinders your self-interests.

      Its sad that we an a society today are reduced to a mass of self-absorbed, selfish individuals who think more for their own self interests than working towards the betterment of society and their community as a whole.

    • Paul Horn says:

      12:16pm | 15/04/10

      Ray you are spot on. That is why it is just not worth it my friend. The greatest status a man can obtain in Western Society is to become a hardened criminal or sports star. Every single male institution that helped define manhood has been wiped off the face of the Earth by rancid feminisation except for sport. The Military, the Police Force, all the professions. Once upon a time men were admired for being hard working, fair, moral, achieving success in their chosen profession. Once upon a time there was thing called duty and chivalrous service peculiar to the male species. Male doctors would serve rural communities often working long hours. Their wives would consider it an honour to work alongside and support their men.  Now the narrative is totally female in every way -  part time work, childcare, equal pay, affirmative action bla bla bla and they wonder why they can’t get doctors to work in the bush.
      There is nothing that makes a man anymore, absolutely nothing except again sporting prowess!! No one gives a stinking damn. If you ask yourself as a bloke what role do you play in society, what is your role in the cursed system the answer is zilcho. Society could’nt care less. It considers the average law abiding, hard working bloke a festering degenerative sore on its landscape. Nothing more than an oppressor.

      There are hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised young males who are victims of single mothers living in welfare suburbs in this nation. They are completely oppressed and surrounded by the matriarchy. They have no male role models and lucky if they have one positive male influence.  So why would you give a damn about societies laws and commitment to “gender equality” when society through progressive thinking and action has defecated on your aspirations, your hopes and dreams?? 
      It is a wonder to me how we still function overall as a law abiding nation when we have so many disconnected and angry chaps.

      Eva Cox defined the disease called feminism perfectly when she commented on the ABC how sick to the guts she felt at K Rudds decision to choose 11 of the 12 leading thinkers to be white males at his “Ideas Fest” held a few years back . She offered no rational critique, just dirty hateful emotional invective. Why do we males stand for this perversion of nature? And that is the rub. Our complicity in the face of this cancerous filth called feminism is the reason for our demise.

      I leave you with a few choice embittered feminist quotes
      “The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist”—Ti-Grace Atkinson

      “Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice.”—
      Ti-Grace Atkinson

      “Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women’s movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage.”—Sheila Cronin, prominent member of NOW

      “If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.”—Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

      “Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women’s bodies.”—Andrea Dworkin

      “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.”—Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

      “We can’t destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage.”—Robin Morgan

      “I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire.”—Robin Morgan

      “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”—Catherine MacKinnon

      “Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex.”—Valerie Solanas

      Feminism strives for equality between the sexes? Don’t be such a filthy liar. Feminism and feminists have one and only one objective - the complete annihilation of heterosexuality. Any woman that pouts support for this filthy hateful philosophy is a supporter of nothing less than a genocidal regime and should be locked away for ever or wiped of the face of the Earth. Punch On.

    • BTS says:

      12:43pm | 15/04/10

      ‘What about the single mothers dumped by their husbands/boyfriends without so much as a cent to raise their child?’

      It’s called sole parent pension.  Some women make a killing out of it.  Some claim to be single while still taking child support payments, making twice the killing.

      Not to mention that Child Support has been way over weighted in favour of the mother, more than required to bring up a child.

    • Peter says:

      07:12pm | 15/04/10

      @ Paul, ive never heard those quotes before. How come the women I go out with don’t leave me alone when i just want to get some sleep? I never imagined sex was such an awful experience for them.. Some of those quotes are more extreme that Osama Bin Laden, absolutely feral stuff…

    • Paul Horn says:

      10:30am | 16/04/10

      Well done Peter you have finally woken up to the truth! Congratulations. Feminist slime is rooted in Marxist philosophy. The two are binary stars orbiting the same centre. Instead of the fight against the landed or privileged class you simply substitute for the male gender. For instance Germaine Greer is first and foremost an anarchic Marxist and then a feminist.  One leads naturally into the other. Revolutionalry Communist teaching derides marriage as a form of imperialist oppression and a form of gender discrimination.  In the 1920’s the Communist leaders discouraged marriage and believed the state should rear children. What followed was a total collapse of the system. Men who had lived peaceably with their wives for more than 20 years were now free to pursue under state encouragement other affairs and to denounce their marital responsibilities. There were tens of thousands of illegitimate children born that the state was forced to care for and the system could not cope. The hypocritical political commissars had to change tack reinstituting the legaity of marriage very quickly. What we have today after 40 years of filthy feminist oppression is exactly the same thing. A huge welfare bill supporting single motherhood and a proactive feminist social agenda underwriting it. You see also in the family courts, domestic violence advertising etc etc. All designed to undermine all and every heterosexual institution.

      The thing that gets me though Peter is that if feminism continues its hateful spiteful path of disengagement and destruction of all institutions that help regulate sexual relationships they are laying a path of complete social breakdown which will result in women rights retreating back to the dawn of time. If men lose complete respect for the opposite gender womens fate wil be sealed. They will be treated with contempt and utter derision. Human flesh to be bought and sold at will unless feminists have quietly been concocting a surprise blietzkrieg to physically annihilate all men from the face of the Earth. I would be very intersted to see tham pull that one off!

    • Peter says:

      02:13pm | 16/04/10

      Your right Paul. All the rights that women have today are those that loving and kind men gave to them. Men can very very easily take it away. But we are not the monsters they make us out to be and we would probably never do that..  These hateful little creatures need to understand this…

    • Jamie says:

      08:25pm | 16/04/10

      Ray, why would you speak so badly about men? So many of the guys I know are successful and are in happy relationships. One is a manager before 30 and the others are doing well career-wise too. The older ones at work don’t seem to be suffering from any of your problems. I don’t know many at all who are stripped of their identity and self-worth. Who on earth are you surrounding yourself with? You sound painfully bitter and disillusioned to the point where you prefer to soak yourself in hatred and spread your own obviously bitter experiences around as facts of life for everyone.

      Doesn’t anyone find it ironic that some of the men here are going on and on about how feminism negatively stereotypes and demonises men while harping on about how women are the devils, are lazy and useless? Some of you are doing the exact thing you proclaim to hate.

    • Rachel says:

      10:25am | 17/04/10

      It is a common thing for a person who has been wronged by a member of the opposite sex to then start making statements about the person who wronged them, but assign them to the whole of that gender.  So because my ex-wife Mary has been really unreasonable about the divorce, takes what she can get, is manipulative, controlling etc, then all women are unreasonable, manipulative, controlling and take what they can get.  One person does not equal the whole gender.

    • TK says:

      02:44am | 20/04/10

      Ray and Paul, very interesting points and it’s really given me something to think about.  I think we need to be careful in generalising (or at least give a young bloke hope please!) but I agree, women are taught by popular culture and their friends to use their sexuality to get things (aka prostitution). Sleeping with somebody because their famous? Prostitute e.t.c. e.t.c. Actually worse then prostitutes because at least their honest about their objective to themselves and others.

      I’ve got a feeling though that women do not feel represented by Germaine Greer and I think she is best thought of as the vehicle, not the message.  She brought attention to the issue and her use ended there.

      I guess women took their traditional role and shirked it. I know guys now who leech off their girlfriends in the same way some girls leech off their boyfriends. Although I agree, that the decline in respect for a hardworking, fair, moral male is an absolute travesty, is it possible that there are just more sh*tty people around generally?

    • Zeta says:

      10:30am | 15/04/10

      I just can’t help but cringe when reading Australian takes on feminism that hold up Germaine Greer as if she’s relevant to the movement in a political or philosophical sense.

      It’s kind of like talking about classical music and quoting Moby. Or the civil rights movement and quoting Jay Z.

      I was forced to take two units of Women’s Studies at University to pass my degree. The only other bros there were Nursing students, and another English major who later had a sex change so I don’t think he counts. Initially I was all like ‘pffft wtf feminism germaine greer = epic fail’, or at least I would have if I went to university in the last couple of years, I think at the time I probably said ‘whoa this is not rad’ before heading outside to kick a hackey sack.

      We had this Professor named Professor Beard. She had a moustache. The irony, and her moustache, were mesmorising. But I digress. Expecting to be beat around the face and neck with tampons and burning bras, I was pleasantly suprised to learn just how smart and interesting early feminists were. Simone de Beauvoir, Betty Friedan, Emma Goldman, Eleanor Marx.

      The first thing that strikes you about them is they’re smart. Scary smart. They write beautifully. They’re practical yet philosophical. They’re everything we don’t see, or don’t want to see in modern feminism.

      I realised the sad thing about feminism today, be it radical or otherwise, is the lack of respect paid to those women. Today, a conversation about feminism includes obligatory references to Greer and commentary from celebrities. Elle McPherson did not throw her self under the King’s horse to get the vote. Lady GaGa did not write a foundational tract of feminist discourse.
      Feminism should be taken seriously. There remain deep inequalities that need to be overcome. But you’re not going to overcome them with an impromptu reading of the Female Eunuch and a stirring rendition of I Am Woman. You overcome them by demonstrating women are just as smart as men are, and by challenging powerful men at every turn, thus gaining relevance.

      Greer is not relevant, and she no longer challenges anyone unless you’re a reader of the Daily Telegraph.

    • Eric says:

      11:05am | 15/04/10

      Here are some more relevant quotes from mainstream feminists for you, Zeta:

      “All men are rapists and that’s all they are.”
      Marilyn French, Author; (later, advisor to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

      “We live, I am trying to say, in an epidemic of male violence against women.”
      Katha Pollitt.

      “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”
      Catherine MacKinnon

      “I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it.”
      Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan.

      “The traditional flowers of courtship are the traditional flowers of the grave, delivered to the victim before the kill. The cadaver is dressed up and made up and laid down and ritually violated and consecrated to an eternity of being used.”
      Andrea Dworkin

      And more!

      http://www.fatherhoodcoalition.org/cpf/newreadings/2001/feminist_hate_speech.htm

    • Zeta says:

      11:29am | 15/04/10

      See Eric, this is exactly what I was just saying. Take Dworkin. She subscribed to a radical feminist ideology that was at odds with many of her peers in the sex positive movement. Although her quote is excellent. Anti feminist rhetoric emphasises a handful of comments by a select few feminisits from the fringe, while devaluing the contribution of genuinely interesting philosophers.

      “No one is more arrogant toward women, more aggressive or scornful, than the man who is anxious about his virility” - Does the Fatherhood Coalition’s website have that one?

    • Eric says:

      12:10pm | 15/04/10

      Zeta, these are not “fringe feminists”. They are the mainstream.

      As for your own hate quote, I’m sure it would fit right in with the others.

    • Jamie says:

      10:28am | 16/04/10

      Eric, just so you know, just because they say they are mainstream feminists, or a few of their supporters say they are mainstream feminists or because you say they are mainstream feminists, does not make them so.

      None of my friends, male and female alike, feminists or non-feminists alike, believe the above quotes you just listed are mainstream. Majority of feminist movements (and I mean the tens of thousands, not the fringe hundreds) probably can’t listen to those quotes without wincing.

      Hate the radical few, but don’t try to apply them to the majority just because it would fit your compartmentalisation better and you can hate all by applying the same generalisation.

      As for Zeta’s quote, it is less radical because it does not make sweeping generalisations of all men. It does not apply to most of the men I know but I cannot deny that I haven’t met men with that attitude, probably for the quoted reason. Just like how I have met women who have no idea what feminism is about but use it as a tool to behave badly and get away with it, even though the vast majority of women and feminists I know don’t do this. See, I don’t blind myself to human flaws from either gender. None of us should.

    • Jamie says:

      02:21pm | 16/04/10

      I meant; I cannot deny that I HAVE met men with that attitude.

      Quick typing = Silly double negatives, oops.

    • Faye says:

      10:32am | 15/04/10

      As for feminism in Australia.
      Australia is still an old boy’s club.
      That may or may not be a bad thing.

      I was commenting about the very patriarchal society Australia has - very male-centric general thinking and culture - and how I was worried about how the women cope with this, when my friend commented that really, he doesn’t see much of a problem with it because in his experience Aussie women are very male-like in behaviour.
      They are aggressive, both sexually and physically, and its not to say they lack feminine qualities - but rarely do you see grace and ultra-femininity in Aussie women.
      This isn’t meant to be offensive, its just that - he pointed out - that women here are very much ‘bloke’s women’ or ‘blokey women’.

      And I find this to be true!
      Living within such a male-centric culture has caused Aussie women to be more aggressive, male-like and ‘louder’ than many other women to ‘cope’ with the aggressive male culture.
      In a way it evolved this way or if they had been ‘graceful and ultra-feminine’ they would have been battered, bossed about and totally exploited! Its just human nature to be opportunists.

      A friend of mine is about to get married to his girlfriend of 1 year. She had snatched him from his high-school sweetheart of more than 6 years as the ‘other party’ and her justification was that ‘he didn’t love her anymore’.

      Now this fellow is a serial cheater. He was actually caught sneaking off with a few women who ALL KNEW he was going to get married to her.

      Women here have evolved into the exact male-like qualities they dislike in men. Loud, brash, rude, aggressive.
      In a way, complaining about their lack of rights is quite funny because in other societies behaving in such a male-like manner would be completely unthinkable.
      The loud, sexually aggressive to the point of promiscuous, rude women who go around mouths full of obscenities - even picking fights!

      The way I see it feminism has actually achieved its goal here of complete equality save for the sibling rivalry here of ‘he’s got that so I want it too’ fights where both parties try to outdo each other competitively instead of actually going hand-in-hand as a united army.

      I want actual fairness based on the actual abilities and biological differences of men and women.
      If a woman stays home, she does the mothering and child-minding and stop expecting the husband to ‘pitch in’ everyday as though he bums around 9 - 5pm.
      If she works, the man shouldn’t expect a woman to do all the housework and child-minding because she does the same 9-5pm grind as he does.

      Not this total equality crap.
      Its like throwing men and women into a running track and expecting a woman to compete physically with the men. They would win and physically she would have to be much more skilled and trained than they are to achieve their natural level of physique.
      Then they might demand handicaps like men to be weighed down by weights.

      Show some consideration to one another and there wouldn’t be a need to demand any sort of ‘rights’.

    • BTS says:

      01:06pm | 15/04/10

      Of course!

      It’s still the man’s fault.  Why didn’t I see that?

    • Peter says:

      10:33am | 15/04/10

      Does anyone know what the Office for the Status of Women do? I have a mental picture in my head of rich feminists who’s heads are still stuck in the 50’s and sitting around, drinking tea and intellectualising what it means to be a woman. Why can’t they do that after work? and why do we need a Government department to do this?

    • AliceC says:

      12:04pm | 15/04/10

      @ Peter

      Yes, that’s exactly what they do.

      Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m late for a secret meeting on how us women can remove men for society all together.

      MWAAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

    • Peter says:

      12:18pm | 15/04/10

      You’ll never do that Alice, deep down you love us too much. Anyway, say hi to the women down at that office for me. Also tell them there is a lot of real work waiting for them when they get home. Enjoy your champas!!

    • CJ says:

      04:25pm | 15/04/10

      Peter, I think you need to look up the word ‘misogyny’.

    • Peter says:

      10:52am | 16/04/10

      @ CJ, I love women, but hate feminism, if that makes me a mysogynist, then I can live with that just fine…

    • Fen says:

      10:56am | 15/04/10

      I think it all went wrong is where Feminism declares that men an women are equal. While on the surface everybody agrees that truth is that men and women are not equal.
      Physically, metally, socially the list goes on.

      Women are far more cabable and better at raising children. ( an before you declare that Im a wife beaten/ down trodden by the yoke of manhood) its true. Women are far more cabable of multi tasking, empathatic, loving, caring, more tender. ( well I believe I am and my mother was)  But I feel that feminism has made the idea of child rearing a dirty, slave like cause. But in reality it the very core of our society, have a look at where it goes wrong and see the result of a bad mother. 

      In saying this women now have a choice to work or not which is a great thing but I hope that this is driven not by the thought the child rearers are sub class. Being a Marxist I guess Germain thinks that the state should rear the children. Germain Greer is a funny thing is that I think she was quoted that one of her few regrets is not having children of her own. But she plays the game between media tart and a real activist. She makes out landish comments one week, followed up by some very sobering and though provoking comments the next.

    • Rachel says:

      07:46pm | 15/04/10

      It’s not true that women are better at raising children. The difference is purely cultural - in that it is learned.  It is also not true that women are more loving, caring, tender, empathetic or better at multi-tasking. I for one am hopeless at multi-tasking, so is my little sister and last I checked I am a woman.

      They are just personality traits and they are learned.  My husband is a wonderful, caring, tender father. He stays at home with our little boy while I go to work.  He worked at getting to know our son and was really interested.  Basically raising kids takes work and a lot of people still believe that is the woman’s job, so the man typically doesn’t put in the work needed.  It is changing now… men are started to become involved, but that is because culture is changing and expecting men to be involved.

    • SkepDad says:

      11:10am | 15/04/10

      there is far more misandry in the feminist movement (and, by extension, in government policy and the legal system) than there is misogyny in the general population.  The pendulum has swung too far.

      Equality my arse.  I, along with every other male who regards all people as equal, am sick to death of being made a second class citizen by virtue of my genes.

    • Sam says:

      04:43pm | 15/04/10

      Insert the word “female” for “male” in your last paragraph and you’ve basically summed up the feminist argument.

    • Peter says:

      11:14am | 15/04/10

      Many feminists regret their past hatred of men once they have young boys of their own, and then realise the error of their past ways.

    • Eleanor says:

      04:19pm | 15/04/10

      [Citation needed]

    • Tory Maguire

      Tory Maguire says:

      11:25am | 15/04/10

      I wouldn’t worry too much about anything Elle McPherson says Daniela. That quote from her is just random words strung together to sound like a sentence. smile

    • Ray says:

      11:40am | 15/04/10

      Nice input Tory. Absolutley withering in its cutting edge relevence to all the comments.

    • Nathan says:

      11:35am | 15/04/10

      There are lies, damn lies and statistics. This article contains the latter.

      Feminism has done it’s job, because there is no choice denied of a woman in the workplace today. Women have eqal opportunity. Who says we should have equal outcomes?

      That’s rubbish commie talk.

    • Spencer Minnis says:

      11:35am | 15/04/10

      Greer is not to be attributed or credited with the Western moves and changes away from Victorian or Conservative ideals of where Women are/were subjugated. Greer is not Feminism. Our Society is evolving anyway with our without Greers.
      I suspect the writer Daniela, picked up the Greer emulation bug at UNI. Where most people get it.  Quite an awful, irrellevant old contrarion really Greer. It is a pity she is recognised as important. 
      Feminists should stop picking on the soft targets here and go after the real Women’s problems in the restof the world…..Stop wasting time with small issues of income parity ($2000 P/annum lower) that Women are free to Pursue.
      If true Feminists had any real Conviction, they would go into the real worthy fights in parts of the World where Women are little better than ‘Dog’ subjects. Particularly the Islamic World….. and other un-developed cultures.
      Stay focussed alright….

    • Life on Mercury says:

      11:29am | 15/04/10

      I do acknowledge that one reason for the perceived “wage gap” is simply that men tend to choose industries that pay higher salaries, and women choose industries that pay lower salaries. Therefore, it’s easy to argue “If women want to be paid more, they should chose something like a mining job, or a trade!”


      However, in practice, it’s not that easy. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that many young females who wish to learn a trade find it incredibly difficult to get an apprenticeship. After all, given the choice between taking on a young bloke, or a young sheila, how many plasterers or electricians or plumbers would choose the girl? (This is assuming that both are equally hard working and physically capable of doing the job).


      Further, do you think that an 18 year old female brickie would be welcomed by the average building crew? Sure, she might be “appreciated” by the guys if she was attractive. But if she was an average Plain Jane, would she truly be respected? Would the other young blokes include her in their conversations, and invite her to the pub after work for a beer, etc? I’d like to hope so, but suspect the reality might be different.


      If we really want to close the gender gap, we need to encourage girls into the trades, and encourage employers to give them a fair go.

    • persephone says:

      02:30pm | 15/04/10

      One of my friends from school went out to the mines at WA and came back qualified to drive heavy machinery.

      She got a job driving bulldozers and the like for a local shire.

      Her fellow workers - all male - went out of their way to make life difficult for her, refusing to tell give her directions to work sites (and sometimes deliberately misdirecting her)  and generally behaving like prats.

    • Paul Horn says:

      03:19pm | 15/04/10

      Damn right they would Life on Mercury. I don’t know what damned rock you have been living under but it must reside on another planet - Mercury no doubt. To destroy your pithy and ridicuous arguments many companies must report on what specifically they are doing to redress the so called shortage of women in male dominated professions or trades! Any female doing a trade would enjoy a support network and advocacy system denied their male peers.

      I know of numbers of female engineers who have been given positions over more qualified and capable males simply because of their gender. Having females on the books does wonders for your cursed equity and diversity audits which I am sure you are familiar with and gives you big ticks when tendering for Government work.

      In the company I work for there is a big sign above the entrannce proclaiming that “XXXXX is an employer of choice of women”. Even tjhough 90% of employees are male!! The females enjoy the protected status of being able to work part time. The fact is that if I was to request the same rights my job would be far less secure simply because I am a male. Having part time working females is great for the companies PR as it shows their hypocritical commitment to employing women and engendering a work life balance culture which gives them browny points with Government bureaucracies. Females of course are the best way of advertising their commitment to this tripe because the whole discourse is only about women. I know men who have asked for similar part time arrangements only to be told by the Managing Director to go jump!!!! So they did!  How’s that for female inequality.   

      There are also numbers of schemes to get females into the trades. The military is even pitching its recruitment strategy specifically at women! Have’nt you been watching the ads on TV? It’s almost ” No males required”

      Som please retract your lies and apolgise for not getting up with the times.

    • persephone says:

      05:46pm | 15/04/10

      And there’s a huge push - with big incentives - to get men into teaching.

      It’s not a one sided thing.

    • Germaine Sneer says:

      11:31am | 15/04/10

      If we are talking about feminism being an equality issue, then the common feminist sentiment is always, women earn less than men for doing the same job. Waah waa waa.  The thing is we are not equal. Women live 5-7 years longer than men. Men read maps better. Women have higher cleaning standards. Pay packets? Who cares. Give it up already. Women have the right to vote, enter into any job without discrimination, live longer , work less in their lifetimes, and pay less for their insurances. What about the disparity in the number of men in jails? What about the disparity in laws favouring women in child allocations after divorce? The thing is, we are NOT equal. We are different. Men operate differently to women in the workplace. Women operate differently to men in social occasions, in the home, on the road. Give it up already

    • Shane says:

      02:33pm | 15/04/10

      I wish I lived in Sneer’s simple world. Much easier than the real world the rest of us live in. Still, at least he’s used good a good argument. Perhaps “waah waa waa” should be incorporated into debating. Example: Men should shut up complaining about women being “favoured” in child allocations after divorce ... waah waa waa.
      Thanks Sneer, very helpful

    • Eleanor says:

      04:22pm | 15/04/10

      You are trolling, yes?

      Otherwise, I invite you to sit in the corner of my household as an objective observer, where you will find that it is my boyfriend who is the fasitidious cleaner with the higher standards of cleaning.

    • Jane the elder says:

      11:50am | 15/04/10

      It took me no time at all to teach my children I was a Womens Liberationist and NOT a feminist.

      It is my view (and I was a bra burner) that the movement was taken over by bitter twisted women whose aim is to prove the superiority of womanhood.

      What I got thrown out of venues for and took people to task for was Equality, not a battle for superiority between the sexes.

      I still support Equal pay for Equal Work and the elevation of women into positions for which they have applied and achieved on merit and would be the first to stand beside any women who was refused promotion on other grounds.

      The Feminists do the Womens Lib founders and the sisterhood no favours with the bitter invective and have lost the plot.

      It’s time to regroup,rethink and relabel the campaign girls!

    • Marianne says:

      11:51am | 15/04/10

      I gladly call myself a feminist. To me that means equal rights for men and women. The reason it’s not called equalism, is because women started out lesser than men, so feminism is advocating women’s rights, not men’s AND women’s rights.

      I know some feminists who want special treatment from men, but for me, I just want to be equal. I want my partner to buy me gifts and pay for dinner, but I also buy him gifts and pay for dinner. I want a career and I want to be able to not stay at home with the kids to pursue my career, if that’s what I choose. I want to make the same as any man in the same profession. I would never hit my partner, nor do I condone women hitting their partners, because that would make me a hypocrite when I say men are not allowed to hit women.

      I also believe that if a woman hits a man and instigates a fight, then he has every right to hit her back. He shouldn’t not hit her just because she is female. She deserves to be hit back if she hits someone, regardless of gender. (Obviously the mature thing to do is to walk away from a fight, but you get my point)

      Being a feminist just means you want to be equal. I’m sure all groups have extremists that like to take it further and warp the meaning of the word, but that’s not how it started out, and that is not how most feminists interpret it. It’s just that the few bad ones put us all in a bad light.

    • John Dark says:

      11:57am | 02/05/10

      “Being a feminist just means you want to be equal.”
      Ummmm, no. Being an egalitarian means you want to be equal. Being a feminist means you support the promotion of women-friendly policies without regard for anything else.
      I will not support your desire to be my superior, or to have rights that I can not.
      I will support your desire for all of us to be treated equally regardless of gender (where practical, of course due to biology).
      But these days for us to be treated equally means men need either more rights than we currently have, or women must accept a reduction in theirs. And we all know neither of these will ever happen.
      Basically the situation now is the reverse of back when society truly was male-dominated. But at least men had the excuse of not knowing better, and then rectifying it when they did in sufficient numbers. Women have no excuse, because they are aware of what the situation used to be, and 2 wrongs do not make a right.
      But then again, I’m just a white straight male and therefore the Devil.

    • Daddy's girl says:

      11:59am | 15/04/10

      When I think if a woman who inspires me to be successful whilst maintaining a refined demeanour I think of Beatrix Potter, she epitomises feminism to me. A woman who despite ridicule pursued a career and always maintained her lady like conduct. She had a passion and succeeded to break down barriers that may have limited her professionally by being a lady. I am grateful to women like her who are the ones that made it possible for me to achieve what I can without stomping all over others in the process.

      It’s just one of those unfortunate situations where the person most recognised as the figurehead of a movement or ideology is the one who least embodies its ideals. I feel that Germaine Greer is to feminism what Bin Laden is to Islam. If Germaine Greer had the good sense to rise to the responsibility of being an ideological figurehead she’d realise that any good leader who has two ears and one mouth should listen twice as much and they speak, she lacks the wisdom and humility to know this.

      Nowadays women just need to know who they are and be very authentic about it. I admit fully that I can be a Princess, I am a daddy’s girl and I love being spoilt by my man. But, I also love spoiling him. I work hard at my job and don’t feel that I deserve more accolades than my male counterparts simply because I am a woman. If I get a pay rise I want to know it is because I have worked hard, not because I have breasts.

    • Peter says:

      12:31pm | 15/04/10

      Hear hear!! You should lead the feminist movement….

    • Kelly says:

      01:57pm | 15/04/10

      Relax daddy’s girl - you’re much more likley not to get a pay rise because you have breasts. Get it?

    • Eleanor says:

      04:20pm | 15/04/10

      I’m sorry but I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one. I can’t quite reconcile the idea that I should still be demure. Yes, humility is a virtue and something to be prized and emulated - but does this make it a necessarily ‘feminine’ trait? More to the point, does it make a woman somehow less female if it is a trait she lacks?

      This is where feminism comes into play.

    • antman says:

      04:13pm | 15/04/10

      Okay, we won’t tell you the reason, then, especially if they’re big ones. You just believe what you want to believe.

    • Daddy's girl says:

      02:25pm | 16/04/10

      @ Peter: thanks for the vote of confidence. However I think I still have a hell of a lot to learn about the world and definitely more humility to develop!

      @Kelly: Sorry no I don’t get it, because it has never been the case for me. I’d never let myself be a victim of circumstance. I control what I get in remuneration negotiations because my results justify my salary.

      @ Eleanor. I was referring to humility as a leaders trait not a feminine one. Also I can’t reconcile the idea that I shouldn’t be demure, as I am a member of the fairer sex, so lets just agree to disagree.

      @Antman: Mediocrity is very unappealing in a male. Maybe you should consider sharpening your wit, after all, it’s better to have boobs than be one in your case!

    • BTS says:

      06:21pm | 16/04/10

      ...or antman, YOU could get boobs and solve the problem.

    • BTS says:

      12:03pm | 15/04/10

      Wait, are we accepting that Lady GaGa is female now?

    • Zeta says:

      12:15pm | 15/04/10

      @ BTS - Va Jay Jay was sighted about two minutes into her new video clip.

    • BTS says:

      12:59pm | 15/04/10

      So they tell you…

    • Menwereborntowork says:

      12:25pm | 15/04/10

      Since feminism, less females are willing to reproduce and some work themselves to the point of being unable to reproduce, therefore requiring IVF.
      Bring back the days of intelligence where females enstill family values within our growing community and the male works his ass off to make ends meet.

    • Peter says:

      04:47pm | 15/04/10

      Their stupid mate. Where one day a family got by on one income, they entered the workforce, doubled the cost of everything and now you can’t get by without 2 salaries… So, who has actually won anything out of this? The money men, that’s who!!!

    • Grant says:

      12:18pm | 15/04/10

      I have noticed that a lot of focus is placed on women’s issues and rights in the media and in society in general, which is great, equal pay for equal work sounds fair etc.

      However, I think something that feminism is missing ts soul from its humanity.  It does not consider that as a society we almost completely ignores factual uncomfortable truths about boys and men, on health, education and social wellbeing.

      Literacy Scores: In 2000, 69% of 15-year-old girls scored at or above the OECD mean in reading literacy tests, compared with 55.4% of males.

      Year 12 Scores. Girls are achieving higher average marks with Tertiary Entrance Score rose from 0.6 marks in 1981 to 19.4 marks in 1996. Boys dominate the bottom performers.

      School Retention. For the past 25 years more girls than boys have completed schooling. In 2002, the apparent Year 12 school retention rate was just 69.8% for males, compared with 80.7% for females.

      Higher Education. More girls 56% than boys go on to study at higher education institutions.  Males made up just 43.1% of domestic higher education students in Australia in 2002, compared with 45.9% in 1992.

      Behavioural and Social Outcomes.
      Teenage boys are more likely than teenage girls to be unemployed, be involved in a car crash, have problems with the law, experience alcohol and substance abuse or commit suicide. By fifteen years of age boys are three times more likely than girls to die from all causes combined - but especially from accidents, violence and suicide.

    • Eleanor says:

      04:05pm | 15/04/10

      You make some fantastic points Grant, and as somebody who identifies as a feminist/humanist, I agree with you implicitly. Feminism shouldn’t be able placing women’s rights above those of men, but giving them equal rank. Unfortunately, sometimes so-called ‘feminism’ does work to the detriment of men, such as practically stripping men of parental rights during divorce.

    • Grant says:

      12:23pm | 15/04/10

      And this as well:
      Other health related issues includes:

      - Suicide rates for males is 16.4 per 100,000 and females 4.3 per 100,000 (2005) with 1657 males committing suicide in 2005

      - The Australian male mortality rate (the number of deaths from all causes) is 146% of the female mortality rate.  With a male child in Australia expecting to live almost 6 less than his sister. This difference has more than doubled over the past century.

      - The rates of deaths are about ten times higher for males compared with females in all categories of working.

      - Males suffer higher death rates from nearly all non-sex specific leading causes.

      - Heart disease and cancer occur more frequently in males than in females at all ages, , men have the overwhelming majority of accidents and injuries

      - Men suffer higher death rates across all of the 10 leading causes of death.

      - Half of all deaths from violence are suicides, of which three-quarters are males.

      - one-third of all deaths from violence are homicides, of which two-thirds are males.

    • Saskia says:

      12:24pm | 15/04/10

      Deep down 99% of women want to have babies, have a pretty house and a good bloke to protect them and provide for them.

      Its sad that young women these days feel that they have to pretend to be men to be accepted.  I see so many lost, scared, sad, lonely and ultimately very dissatisfied young women out here in the workforce it is unreal.

    • the apologist says:

      01:55pm | 15/04/10

      good call Saskia, and deep down, 99% of men want a woman to love and protect (and be loved in return) and a house and family to look after. William Wallace (as represented in Braveheart) wrapped it up nicely when he said he wanted good land to till, a good woman to love, and children to raise.

      From the other side - It’s sad that young men are so baffled by poor role models and mixed messages that they don’t know how to step up and be real men.

      How often do you hear the complaint from women ‘where have all the real men gone?’ ...

      Doesn’t matter how hard people try, there is a degree to which people are hard wired to be what they are. Like it or not, men and women are different (and work well together I think).

    • Lauren says:

      03:57pm | 15/04/10

      Stephenie Meyers, is that you?

    • Eleanor says:

      04:02pm | 15/04/10

      I’m interested Saskia, just where did you get that figure from? Got any independent psychologic/sociologic studies you can cite?

      Because I’m a young woman, I don’t pretend to be a man. I’m me. I’m satisfied with life now and am optimistic as to what my future holds - travel, writing, photography, activism. Please, don’t reduce my character to a facade simply because you can’t let go of the idea that women need men and babies and white picket fences to be happy.

    • Vin says:

      04:30pm | 15/04/10

      You are revealing your intentions, Saskia, not those of others. You cannot speak for “99% of women”.

    • Mariposa says:

      12:19pm | 18/04/10

      Garbage - tell that to the “Childfree-by-Choice” males and females out there, a movement that is steadily growing by the way.

      Tell that to the people born gay/lesb/bi/trans etc, of which I count myself as Lesbian.

      Tell that to the “Single-by-Choice” brigade, male and female, who live quite happily by themselves.

      Just because you want to live the “family script” projected on you by religion, politicians, advertisers and the media, does not mean everyone else seeks to.

    • CC says:

      12:41pm | 15/04/10

      Argue it all you like but the fact of the matter is the world needs feminism and radical change when it comes to equality. Stop bickering about some of our luxuries such as pay, being entitled to work and how you get treated at the pub and look at broader global issues. Slavery. Sex slavery. Domestic violence. Women not having a voice, a say in how their minds and bodies are treated… This is why “feminism” arose and this is why it should be maintained.

      We should not become so complacent.

    • Eric says:

      01:26pm | 15/04/10

      Oh, the old “women have it worse in the third world” argument.

      Always trotted out by feminists as a distraction, when it’s pointed out that women are the most privileged class in the first world.

      Nope, sorry, I ain’t gonna care about women’s rights in some far away country, while men’s rights are denied right here.

    • thekid says:

      12:51pm | 15/04/10

      To Peter and Eric….. Thanks you for making me laugh. You are both absolute IDIOTS. Why don’t you actually read up on the feminist movements and become a little more educated about the history and current issues surrounding it. Then come back, and make a well thought and educated comment about the topic. Until that time, sod off.

    • Rob says:

      01:56pm | 15/04/10

      Well, to the kid. Are you some kind of intellectual revelation. Why would anyone wish to read up on feminism. The fact that the Uni of NSW and Universities etal have a Women’s studies curriculum encompassing feminism says enough. That it was frameworked and run, and probably still is headed, by Eva Cox, is testimony to its validity and relevence.

      It is one thing to have an ideology but another thing to expect people to read up on the diartribe of such a misrepresentative doctrine. Written by paranoid feminists and injected into our education system, and if that’s not gender cleansing well what is.

      Furthermore, If you analyse the female comments on this blog, even they don’t know and are very inconsistent on their interpretation of feminism and its purile objectives. As usual women are all over the shop with light weight vacuous comments which is the hallmark of their ‘multi tasking’, resulting in a warm feeling but completion of nothing.
      That is why men are in the trades. That is supplemented by poor education results from a tainted education system which denies boys university entrance at parity.

      ‘The kid’ synonym sounds like a poor attempt at gender equity (or disguise). If you are male you’ve been done over by feminst schooling. In fact if you are female you’ve also been done over by feminist schooling. The parody being that we now have few ‘men’ and no ‘women’. The other men are emasculated drop outs. The women who were once wonderful creatures are now all self centred takers, self ordained as some superior species that needs to whinge to hold a profile, and celebrate perpetuating men as the second class citizen. Great role model for their sons.

      Meanwhile as per your closing terminology; and as the shepherd said to the herd boy “get the flock out of here”.

    • BTS says:

      03:21pm | 15/04/10

      Name calling indicates you haven’t got anything intelligent to add.

    • mAX says:

      04:45pm | 15/04/10

      HEAR, HEAR.

    • Peter says:

      04:51pm | 15/04/10

      Sod off you tell us? Well why don’t you get some life experience first and come back in a few years and let me know what you think. Read about a movement? What movement? Im seeing rich chicks acting like they are downtrodded because they are women. Feminism has moved to Tony Abbott offering $75K so some woman doesn’t have to put back her plans to buy a Mercedes by 6 months. Aparantly Feminism considers that a human rights violation… Get a life mate, learn, then come back to us.. Read as much books as you like… In the mean time, i want my taxes to look after the vulnerable and not buy fancy cars.. Jeez!!

    • dava says:

      12:51pm | 15/04/10

      All humans are equal - but it often seems like many women need to be recognised as equal. I would suggest that this ‘need’ is what perpetuates the perceived imbalances in equality.

    • Old Man says:

      01:04pm | 15/04/10

      The ideal we should be striving for is that men and women, being human, are of equal value. The problem is that, being human, we are not perfect. Therefore some of us value others more or less than themselves. If we live according to the golden rule: ‘treat others as you would want to be treated’ then the whole issue of feminism will be no issue.

    • Willy K says:

      02:32pm | 15/04/10

      So true.  Women and mens should be free to have very different lives if they so wish.  There is nothing greater than a good mother.  People need to realise this.

      When it comes to that final few moments of all of our lives our mothers will figure as the most prominent image and thoughts.

      Read the thousands of heart breaking accounts of men dying during war and their gut wrenching crying and calling for their mothers as they pass from this world and you will have seen the very atom at the heart of all of our lives.

    • Madeleine says:

      01:19pm | 15/04/10

      Just a trivial point re: Lady Gaga.

      I think I remember her “anti-feminist”/“I love men too much” comment was a joke. Regardless of whether or not she was serious, she has since stated that she is in fact a feminist.

    • Peter says:

      01:26pm | 15/04/10

      A couple of weeks ago i saw some new police recruits learing their traffic duties as they do when they come out of the acedemy. There was a 50/50 split of male to female officers. If what ive heard from some police is true, most female officers don’t want to work on the streets anymore once they encounter their first violent situation.. What a great spend of money that is, all in the name of equality…

    • BTS says:

      05:21pm | 15/04/10

      Imagine them at a pub fight.

    • Peter says:

      06:25pm | 15/04/10

      I wouldn’t want to see them in that situation BTS..

    • Wynn says:

      03:43pm | 16/04/10

      My brother is a cop and he likes working with (most) of the women there. He’s a fairly competitive/ Alpha type and admits that the women often are much better at diffusing certain situations, immediately being able to sense undercurrents of what is going on when first approaching a job etc. He’s said for most general duties it’s great to have the combination and play on both their strengths (provided the individuals involved are competent ). Of course a massive brawl in a pub is another thing altogether.

      I think this is a great approach, it’s about looking at the positive traits in people rather than the “us vs. them” arguments that always seems to break out between the bitter misogynists/ misandrists among us.

    • Peter says:

      06:14pm | 16/04/10

      @ Wynn. I love working with women. Believe it or not pretty much all the women that have worked for me reckon im the best boss they have ever had. Considering I still go out with them 10 year after they left my employment, i can’t be all that bad. Im just saying, there are jobs for men and their are jobs for women. We don’t need to get carried away 50/50 quotas in the workplace esp in the Police Force.

    • Man says:

      01:32pm | 15/04/10

      If it’s a ‘battle of the sexes’ mentality, then the war was lost when it was first declared. I cannot, and will not, support ANY movement which wishes to claim dominance of one sex (or race, though that’s a different topic) over the other. Neither are “the enemy” since we cannot survive divided. We’ll just fall apart.

    • Steve says:

      01:47pm | 15/04/10

      Can we vote to have Eric and all his comments completely removed from The Punch? Every time I view anything he has to say I become extremely irate and want to inflict pain upon him in the severest possible form ... and we’re the same gender so his not winning any points with his anti women stance! Are we able to vote to have him blocked at all? I feel like I cannot enjoy the articles knowing he will have written something ridiculous every single time without fail. You’re an embarrassment to the male sex. Apologies ladies, we’re not all idiots.

    • BTS says:

      05:25pm | 15/04/10

      Don’t read it.

      Are we able to have a vote on removing comments inciting violence?

      Encouraging violence towards others is appalling.

    • Eric says:

      07:48am | 16/04/10

      Harden up, Steve. You’re crying too much.

    • Kev says:

      03:02pm | 16/04/10

      Eric is great. Keep up the good work.
      Steve, why don’t you and Bec stop bitching about other peoples comments and just make a comment that contributes to this forum.
      Steve, your the embarrassment to the male gender, live with it.

      PS : hows the blood pressure now?

    • Peter says:

      06:06pm | 16/04/10

      Steve’s one of those blokes that think that being a Snag and in touch with your feminist side actually gets you the girls.. Im sure he’s still trying. Pretty much every girl ive met laugh at woosy blokes..

    • Andrew says:

      01:48pm | 15/04/10

      Lets get one thing straight, if you choose to leave the workforce for a period of time to have a baby, you can not expect to then go back as if you had never left. If someone whom has worked since they where 20, they are now 30, and they took off two years to raise kids, they only have 8 years experience, and yet you expect someone to reenter the workforce and be treated as if they have had 10 years experience.

      Feminism has worked to a degree, it has opened the door for women. However this notion of “you can have it all” does not work for men (how many men miss out on their childs “firsts” to have the career), and it can’t work for women either. It’s not a sexist thing, it’s just the way life is.

      BTW if you want to make things more fair, make it socially acceptible that either gender can be the primary breadwinner, or that either gender can be the stay at home parent. Women in someways now have more choice than men in that regard.

    • Kate says:

      01:59pm | 15/04/10

      I think one reason women today reject so-called ‘traditional’ feminism is because it is perceived as offering choices for women - provided you make the right choices to appease other feminists.

      I agree that ‘equality’ is a better term than feminism. You can support the right of women who choose to be working mothers, but still be a stay-at-home mum yourself. You can believe women and men are equal but still opt to change your surname when you get married. Men should not deride women for their femininity - but some of the more radical feminists also need to realise they are losing the battle for equality by alienating their fellow women.

    • Andrew says:

      12:19pm | 16/04/10

      One of my favourite stories is of a kid who had a uni entry score high enough to get him into which ever field he wanted, Doctor \ Lawyer what ever. They where consistantly told “You can do what ever you want” so they decided to become a plumber. Everyone was in shock and tried to discourage the kid from becoming a plumber by telling the kid “but you can do anything you want, why would you become a plumber?”

      The moral of the story is that being given options and choices really only means you have the choice to do as we want you to do. Really you don’t have a choice.

    • Steven says:

      02:19pm | 15/04/10

      These are 2 issues not 1.  1st is Legal, 2nd is cultural; don’t fiddle with the legal issue to change a cultural issue.

      I know of women who could of climbed the management ladder, but didn’t.  Why?  Those women are creating a pay gap.  Yet our current laws should be enough, where just not policing it.  There should be a government taskforce that randomly check a business, compare a female and male in the exact same job, doing the exact same work.  Then make sure they get the same pay.  If there’s a problem, check everyone’s pay packet.  If they are doing wrong bring them before court.  I don’t agree with adding more laws to force people into a sense of security or damage control.

      Women need more self-confidence to help them climb the ladder.  Portraying Men as being bad fathers, partners, sexist and womanising losers.  Doesn’t do anything for women it just makes young boys think that type of behaviour is acceptable, which it isn’t & shouldn’t be.  Which inturn those guys often make their female partners feel bad.  What a joke the world is.  You only need 1% to do this to ruin it for everyone else!

      But Men don’t get treated equally; I want to have Maternity Leave for my own child when it comes later this year.  But I’m not allowed to be the father I want to be.  Instead I’m discriminated against, then many other women think I’m strange.  Portal of men as bad is stopping some of the progress women want.  If both Men & Women were really truly treated as equals under the law no employer would get an advantage from highering only men.  Instead the opposite would happen, because a 50yo man could have a 30yo partner who just had a kid then claim leave, while the 50yo women has no chance of claiming maternity leave.  TREAT US AS EQUALS!

      Yet having said all that the other problem which I think might be at the root cause to why some men might not give women a chance in upper management.  Is how women react to male interactions.  I have a pre-typed email head and ending.  I copy and paste the top, type what I want and then paste the bottom, so I can communicate with about 3 different women at work.  Why you ask?  Because those women have all complained I’m not nice enough.  ALL those women wanted was nice things like “How are you”, “Thanks/Sorry/How was your weekend” ... Yet I send a single line to male staff without a worry.  I had a girl cry her eyes out to a manager because after the 6th email I didn’t say “Hello”...  What the hell!?!  Come on!  Just deal with it!  Your going to get that.  I said Hello on the first email, I always do.  But adding all the nice stuff is just stupid over and over again.

      When Male managers see that kind of reaction over and over that’s when (from what I’ve seen) they will doubt a woman’s ability.  The manager I know of this still higherd a female supervisor who I currently work under.  She’s great, I don’t wrap my email is crap nice touchy feely things.  I can get straight to the point.

      In conclusion:
      1) Women need more self confidence NOT more laws.
      2) Men need to be treated more equally so employers don’t have advantage
      3) Women need to not let there emotions get in the way of rational thought.
      4) Men shouldn’t be portrayed so badly in Movies, TV, Newspapers (you only see or hear when they’ve done wrong, not good)
      5) If the government wants to do something, then create a Taskforce to check and act like discrimination police.  Our Employment laws already have teeth, need to put them into a strong jaw.

      But to me the most important thing is Maternity leave for both Men & Women.  If you don’t like how women miss out of pay, job opportunities or other things because of the baby leave, then simply put Men in the same basket!  Then start calling men bad fathers who don’t take this leave and leave all up to mum.  You’ll be able to watch the culture change before your eyes.  No country (apparently) gives both men an women maternity leave, the best you find is a women deferring their leave to their husband.  Come on, lets be the first country to do this.  Rudd wants to show off to the world, so let do it, lets go further for EQUALITY than any other country.  Then watch what happens to the first generation that has dad play a bigger role in their lives than ever before. I only see win-win-win.  Yet if we keep only looking at equality as a one way street then we’ll be stuck doing the same old thing until we see the light.

    • Peter says:

      12:55pm | 17/04/10

      What if you don’t need the money Steve, why should tax payers fork out money to people who don’t need it? You can call it Maternity leave, but if it comes out of the tax system, it’s welfare. I am happy for my taxes to look after people that need it, but i am not happy to pay people taxes so they can run out and buy themselves a Mercedes Benz in the name of some warped equality. Our parents and most families to date have coped just fine without excessive Government handouts and having kids is a sacrifice. If you don’t need the money Steve, you shouldn’t get a cent…

    • Catherine Rose says:

      01:13pm | 07/08/10

      This male, Steven, blames feminism for the ultra masculine culture in workplaces - not male thought processes masquerading as rationality.

      He bemoans that he is not offered paternity leave, and would be derided for requesting it.  The majority of managers and decision makers in Australian workplaces are men - and they are setting the cultural tone.  So those denying paternity leave are men, not evil feminists who would consider him “strange”.  I do wonder who he is screaming his demands at exactly…

      Steven then says “TREAT US AS EQUALS”, as long as those equals are men.  If you are a sensitive woman who likes to be acknowledged in emails by name or a personal reference, you just need to ‘deal with it’ because even Steven admits the workplace is culturally male, and that exclusionary atmosphere is obviously ok.  You might be only 1 of 100 women he has known who has cried at work, but managers will doubt your and every other woman’s ability, because you are a “different” human - one with emotions.

      Steven then imparts his wisdom on how to lessen discrimination to men, while telling women what is wrong with them.

      Apparently we need more self confidence, and rationality, and less emotion.

      Women also seem to be responsible for the image of men because it is us who is forcing male employers to uphold archaic ideals of male roles in the workplace, not to mention portraying men in beer commercials like leering idiots. 

      Naturally.

    • An Idle Dad says:

      02:47pm | 15/04/10

      I’m not feminist, I’m feminish.

    • Noggo says:

      03:10pm | 15/04/10

      The idea we’re all equal is wrong, it;s admirable and idealistic, but soooo wrong, but that has littel to do with our gender. As for feminism, things have been equal for soem time bnow, the rest is just paranoid excuses.

    • Jessica says:

      03:12pm | 15/04/10

      I am so sick of the women make less money than men and therefore are disadvantaged bullcrap (I am a woman). Women make less than men because they choose different careers that are generally lower paid, or they choose high paid careers but choose not to work 80-90 hour weeks. Women more often than men, put their family (or themselves) before work.

      Obviously this is not always the case. But it certainly explains the disparity in the statistics. Feminism should be about a woman’s right to choose, not about proving to be “as good”  and earn as much as a man in things she doesn’t even want to do. 

      Articles like yours perpetuate the nonsense that you cant be in a “woman’s” career, or stay at home with kids because that’s “un-feminist”.

    • Eleanor says:

      03:18pm | 15/04/10

      Sexism is still alive and well, believe you me. Too many times at work I’ve been sneered at by middle aged men who say ‘Listen here little lady,’ and then spout off on some irrational tangent about how they need to speak to the MAN in charge, because obviously by virtue of the fact that I’m female means I’m incompetent in any kind of job that requires more than typing skills.

      No, I’m not putting you through to the manager - who, by the way, is female too - because a) you’re being an asshole and b) I’m not doing what you want me to because it’s unethical/unreasonable/stupid.

      And then I go and whinge to my friends about that misogynist asshole, and they say “Oh, you’re a feminist are you? You got the right to vote, what more do you want?”, and then later on in the conversation, tell me how I SHOULDN’T want to be a career woman instead of a mother.

      And people wonder why I drink.

    • BTS says:

      05:17pm | 15/04/10

      Cheers!

    • Johnny Fairplay says:

      03:30pm | 15/04/10

      Interesting idea for an article. My take? Feminism is rooted in the past in a world of us and them. You can see it by the way feminists define and exclude on social issues.(Even so far as distorting statistics to further a cause. Go read the HILDA Survey for the actual disparity between male and female wages - $23.00/hr male and $21.90/hr female less than <6%!)

      To feminists everything is about being a victim and someone being a perpetrator - it is an old win lose paradigm. This thinking calls for the replacing of one power with another - not a new way forward.

      If it continues down this path without changing it will start to do more damage than good and it’s legacy will be tarnished. Which is a shame because there have been some really good achievements. In 50 years feminism will be seen as another form of sexism.

      I think people are now looking for something based on a win/win paradigm ie being inclusive, diverse, transparent and having personal responsibility. Feminism - as it currently stands - doesn’t pass any of these tests.

    • Wirewolf says:

      03:36pm | 15/04/10

      Wow. What a surprise. This devolved into the same tired old gender slanging match that it always does whenever anyone mentions the “F” word.
      If you want to know what happened to feminism, just read the posts in this blog; that pretty much sums it up. The discussion about the rights and roles of the genders in society stopped being an inclusive discussion about advances that could benefit everyone and create a more balanced and fairer society. Instead it became a “zero sum game” in which both genders started fighting for the intellectual and moral high ground, with which to dominate the discourse and advance their own narrow agenda. Basically, both sides stopped talking to each other and started talking at each other, and everyone stopped listening. Co-operation ceased, sides were chosen, and everyone settled in for a long ideological trench war. That’s where this issue has been ever since.
      If the pursuit of genuine equality for women is going to advance from this point, the ‘gender right equalisation’ agenda is going to have to re-badge itself, because “feminism” has been irrevocably tainted by this nasty, divisive, and superfluous debate.

    • Micko says:

      03:36pm | 15/04/10

      The crude comparison of wage rates is an absurd basis upon which to measure equality.  It ignores the notion of personal choice: i.e. if I spend time out of the workforce to raise children then I will lower my earnings potential, on the other hand I gain the rewards of being an involved parent.  If I work in public sector I earn less, but I have more manageable working hours and more rewarding work.  If I work as a nurse rather than a banker then I may earn less, but I may enjoy the benefit of the esteem of others.

      The brand of feminism that crudely seeks equality on every front ignores the fact that men and women (on average) think differently, and will (on average) tend to make different choices in relation to the types of questions posed above.  Greer herself goes to great pains to emphasise the differences between men and women—so this should be a very uncontroversial observation.

      Requiring equal pay for women through some blunt legislative or legal mechanism will simply result in increasing the rewards go to women that make the choice to favour career over family and friends, at the expense of everyone else.  Rather self serving for those career minded women who don’t want to accept the sacrifices that come with prioritising a family.

      Who is to say whether one has a more rewarding life by favouring career or family?  As a man who has gone one way in life and then another I am aware of the benefits of both.

      I would have thought the important issue for feminism (and society) is that the man and a women, with the same skills, have equal access to the same choices and opportunities in life.

    • Lauren says:

      03:52pm | 15/04/10

      Feminism never really had the plot to lose to begin with.

      Feminists only agree on one thing - that there is a one sided gender oppression. What causes the oppression is when the fights starts.

      Its hard to get everyone else on board with feminism when feminists themselves and constantly battling it out with each other.

      Myself included. I constantly tell my friends (female and male) that liberal feminism is accomploshed, but in practice there is still a gap between the genders. And they just look at me as though they had gone to sleep for 10 seconds or so.

      Comments made by Lady Gaga and Elle (and pretty much every priviledged westerner) echo this.

    • Pedro says:

      03:56pm | 15/04/10

      I read down to the bottom of this blog and noticed the Punching on Today section. Five women: Daniela, Rachael, Carrie, Shannon, Jayne. And one man: Lyall.  Equality today?  Says it all, I think.

    • Jeff says:

      04:10pm | 15/04/10

      It’s a movement that’s been hijacked by women pushing an anti man agenda. It started with good intentions but has gone well and truly off course. Women don’t want to be frowned upon for choosing to have children or supporting their husband in his career as much as they don’t want to be paid less for equal work.

    • The Civet says:

      04:19pm | 15/04/10

      This is so passé. Women in the West have virtually made the grade. The future for feminism should be for the stout hearts prepared to take on the men of Islam.

      That would take ten Germaine Greers to tackle just the moderate Muslim countries, Malaysia, I think. Ten thousand to tackle the Saudi Arabian mentality.

    • Wirewolf says:

      12:07am | 16/04/10

      I’m not sure how much effect western influence can have on the gender debate within the Islamic world. If we stick our nose in, we are liable to be accused of cultural imperialism and interfering in things that are not our business. While human rights are everyone’s business, it may be that simply barging in and telling people to change will end up being counterproductive. I think that the push for greater equality for women within Islamic society has to be ultimately driven by Islamic women themselves. Nonetheless, we should support their efforts in whatever way we can; while at the same time recognising that real change has to come from within.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      04:48pm | 15/04/10

      @ Zeta:

      Well said, but I disagree that Germaine Greer is irrelevant to feminism. If nothing else, she’s a relic whose philosophy and politics were borne of a different era. It’s a bit like reading accounts of history that are recorded not long after the event – they’ll be flawed and ideologically skewed.

      I work in the I.T industry which is predominately a male domain and I’ve no doubt women earn less than our counterparts on a role basis. But is this because the technical nature of the industry (like car mechanics) naturally attracts more men than women that ultimately results in a numbers-based, male dominated culture as opposed to deliberate management of an outdated status quo? 

      Why isn’t there a minister for Equality investigating gender pay disparities across all industries?

    • Jan says:

      04:58pm | 15/04/10

      Greer the feminist recently wrote that she admires women who divorce.

      So here’s a piece of kindly advice from a long-term married mature-age woman.

      Boys and girls (those of you who worked your rear ends off to put together a few assets) -  DON’T ever, ever,  begin a domestic relationship unless you have a water-tight pre-nuptial agreement.

      And if either partner wails “Oh, you don’t love me, you don’t trust me, or you wouldn’t suggest such a thing” - turn on your heels and run flat out in the opposite direction.

      Women who are still looking at 35, and men who are confirmed bachelors because they’re not particularly impressed by what’s on offer, you can all thank Germaine Greer and her ilk for your lonely existence.

    • The Badger says:

      05:34pm | 15/04/10

      Feminism became a dirty word when the feminist movement achieved what is referred to as the reverse discrimination tipping point. In the rush to make all things that the feminists believed were discrimination “right”, feminism went over the top and mens rights became the casualty.

    • Peter says:

      06:02pm | 15/04/10

      Sorry Ladies, I hope i didn’t miss too much.. I just got back from work and found the missus still ironing and dinner is not ready yet. Anyway, while that’s cooking I thought I pop on and see what everyone is saying??

    • BTS says:

      07:27pm | 15/04/10

      Let’s hope she’s not late with dinner again this week.

    • Peter says:

      09:44am | 16/04/10

      Nah, she alright.. She can be as late as she likes….

    • Front says:

      07:47pm | 15/04/10

      Trick is, separate lives.  Neither needs the other if there are no kids. Don’t have kids.

    • Mel says:

      08:45pm | 15/04/10

      I was a feminist, actually I still would say I am, and I was ok to other feminists until they turned on me when I chose to stay at home to look after my children.
      Feminists have killed Feminism, and they have alienated men at the same time, as we now have a whole generation of neanderthal men, who have rebelled against the very worth cause of equality. The sooner we make it less about women and more about society as a whole, and equality the better. Feminists have made themselves a joke.

    • Dr Gaye Barr says:

      11:53am | 16/04/10

      Exactly.

      There should be a minister for EQUALITY whose portfolio addresses social inequity in general - not a Minister for the status of women.

    • frustratedwithfeminism says:

      05:04pm | 17/04/10

      I agree feminists have made themselves a joke. Your feminism credentials are showing though. Why do you describe the men as neanderthals?  What qualifies them to be classified this way? Why do you not mention the alleged current trend for young women to increasingly be seeking out men to marry who are willing to support the family in a more traditional allocation of roles?  My daughter and son in law have just announced they are having a child.  My daughter, who has had a higher income than her partner, considers herself lucky to have a man who is sweetly concerned for her health and wellbeing and who encourages her to lighten her workload while she is pregnant. It’s well known that stress and anxiety are not good for you at any time especially when you are pregnant.  And yes, he encourages her stay home with the baby and care for it herself while he devotes himself to working hard to enable her to do that. Does this qualify my excellent son in law as a neanderthal?  I think not. I think he is a bloody GEM!!

    • Mel says:

      11:24pm | 18/04/10

      and I have a husband exactly like that. Most 30 something men I know are like that, I can’t say the same about the generations that followed.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      12:24pm | 07/08/10

      Frustratendwithfeminism says his son-in-law is a gem.  The thing is, so many men (and women) are ready to hero-worship men for the smallest things.  Like working hard at his job, for e.g. and showing concern to his pregnant partner.

      Women might work full-time, then come home and do all those tasks invisible to men that make a house run well, look after kids,sick partners,  parents, in-laws and make the cupcakes for Sundays party, but men are the REAL GEMS, apparently - because wait for it - THEY WORK HARD AND SHOW CONCERN TO THEIR PARTNERS!

      Like a conversation heard the other day:

      Woman 1:  I’ve just finished the laundry, cleaned the bathroom, lunch is on and I’m just about to bath the kids, then I’ll start on those cupcakes.  M’s great though - he took out the garbage and replaced the batteries on the fire alarms.

      Woman 2:  Wow, M “helps” out around the house.  He’s good.  You must have trained him well. 

      Father-in-law:  Yeah, M is a real gem.  And on top of ALL that, he works 9-5, 5 days a week!

    • Daniel says:

      11:07pm | 15/04/10

      Daniela Elser, I can’t believe that anyone’s still trotting out that old ‘unequal pay’ rubbish.  We have laws in Australia to guarantee equal pay for the same job, and anyone who does not comply can expect to hear from the Equal Opportunity Commission.  Yes, full time male workers have a higher average pay than full time female workers, but that is because men use their freedom of choice to choose predominantly well-paying occupations (especially in the mining and construction industries) while women use their equal freedom of choice to select predominantly service and education jobs which pay less because they are not as dirty and dangerous and, on the whole, don’t require as much technical skill.  Women are free to become mining Engineers - in fact the industry is full of extra incentives and support that is only available to women - but in general they choose not to.  Feminism lost the plot when it started trying to dictate to women for the sake of a few ill-founded ideals.

    • Ray says:

      08:12am | 16/04/10

      Kaitlen, A comment on your ‘why do men still hold an awful view of women’
      Simple, because of what women are and getting worse.
      Why do you need to do a university degree on feminism. Why is it in the curriculum? Did the degree give both sides of the story?
      Is it to indoctinate society into warped ideology eg Nazism.

      It’s bloody sad really. And then all the feminists come out with their esoteric quotes on a flawed doctrine. (read gender)

    • Bob says:

      10:17am | 16/04/10

      Its always a good laugh when I read about the equal pay thingy.  It is of course against the law in the federation and all of the states of Australia to discriminate against anybody on the basis of their sex..  Its simply that women choose to work in industries and occupations that dont pay as much as men.  More men work full time, more men work longer hours, men do less of the child rearing and child caring.  Its their choice to have children.  Children cost.  In terms of time its a lifetime investment to some.  In terms of money its certainly a big drag on family finances.  In terms of career, it of course breaks into career and makes promotion and all those other things disjointed.  Why should not men, or women for that matter, who work full time, long hours and put in day after day after day not be rewarded in their field of endeavour.  It could be said that carers investment in terms of time given to their families is an immense reward.  It certainly was for me.  I can say one thing with absolute certainty.  My wife, who like me is nearing the end of her working life, has absolutely no problem gaining employment, whereas many younger women in this area have problems even getting an interview.  Is my wife cleverer or more energetic or better educated?.  No.  She has been told in not so many words that the reason she is in demand is that she is not going to demand maternity leave, and impose those costs in terms of time and money on the business and then demand part time work which may or may not suit the business when the child(ren) are finally here.  Dont forget to thank the feminists for that when you next see one.

    • Michael says:

      11:00am | 16/04/10

      I am an electricain and all the women i work with earn the same as the other males dont expect different jobs to pay the same it is a mater of supply and demand, when child care workers earn $1200 per week you will find lots of guys doing these jobs, and push the women out because men are more career focused, women just dont keep up or is it they are just lazzy, and washing dishes doesnt pay $30 dollars an hour you do it in your spare time so it costs nothing…...

    • Victor says:

      11:04am | 16/04/10

      Well there one thing I know about feminist, is that they are confused male’s dress up in men’s clothing, believe me they make the lesbian look very sexy !

      Need I say more about feminist !

    • bec says:

      12:51pm | 16/04/10

      If there’s one thing I know about feminists, it’s that we know how to derive plurals.

    • TK says:

      03:10am | 20/04/10

      cheap shot bec, I’m laughing but cheap shot,
      Victors comment is also quality

    • Catherine Rose says:

      08:32pm | 06/08/10

      Yes you do need say more about the feminist, because when you use a quote like “Need I say more” it should precede a witty punch-line that ends your argument succintly - and that is something you very much did NOT achieve.

    • Chris says:

      11:21am | 16/04/10

      A man invented the retary engine actually and he made it famous, there were no women involved, get your facts right.

    • Eric says:

      12:38pm | 16/04/10

      I also googled the laser printer - guess what, a man invented that too!

      James is peddling a bogus list of feminist fantasies.

      Funny how feminists can’t use facts - they always have to make up stuff.

    • Rachel says:

      10:31am | 17/04/10

      Eric - it’s not feminists who can’t use facts, it’s one person who may have got a point wrong.  One person who says something does not mean the whole group believes the same thing. Generalising is what causes bigotry.

    • Victor H Pigott says:

      12:48pm | 16/04/10

      One must congratulate the feminists for their efforts to criminalize every living male as perverts and rapists.  For in doing so they have effectively thrown out two hundred years of common law protections for accused persons. Now, a hint of sexual abuse ends up before criminal courts in which accused are viewed as perpetrators and accusers as victims.  Subsequently, it is no longer necessary for victims to attend Committal Hearings or to be questioned in front of juries at trial.  Judges directions to juries have been downgraded and double jeopardy laws either abolished (UK) or diminished ( NSW).  In NSW the Victims Compensation Tribunal does not even notify an alleged perpetrator that an application has been made in which their name appears as nominated defendant.  Anything that person has to say or produce is irrelevant to that Tribunal in which an award of compensation does not depend on a criminal finding of guilt.  The philosophy is that victims always tell the truth, that they must be believed and that there is no such thing as the false allegation.  In such a world what male would be brave or foolish enough to enter any profession in which they must associate with children, male or female?  Even husbands seeking access orders in the Family Court are not exempt from sex allegations.  There is however one light in this dark tunnel - an increase in the number of females now appearing before the Courts on sexual assault allegations of children. How’s that for justice?

    • Open for Discussion says:

      01:07pm | 16/04/10

      Who let this Lady out of the Kitchen???

    • jhm says:

      01:51pm | 16/04/10

      Regardless of what they call it, women will continue to promote women’s issues, and men will continue to promote men’s issues. At the end of the day, each and every one of us will take a stand on the point of view which supports and promotes our selves, and vehemently disregard or dispute that which doesn’t. Humans are self-interested creatures at their core. There are a very few people in this world who are capable of true social justice, for the most part because the facets which make up society don’t encourage that kind of whollistic fence-sitting - we’re required through peer culture, social mores or political assertion to take a stand one way or the other. And people get confused easily.

      So this debate will rage on and on and on, and will never be “resolved” or “won”, because there will always be someone who thinks they have something to fight about.

      The feminist movements take credit for giving women the choices they have today, but really, who cares as long the choices exist?

    • Ray says:

      03:01pm | 16/04/10

      Must be getting towards the end of this tiresome topic which particularly women cannot let go and subsequently men are finally finding the fortitude to react against.

      Feminism is without doubt the greatest HOAX of the 20th/21st centuries. Its formed on the basis of hatred, lies, deceit and misinformation.

      Feminism has successfully put the greatest divide ever between women and men in Australian society. I for one used to love women but now I hold them in utter contempt. They have seized on opportunism to perpetrate irreparable damage to men, namely fathers, sons and society in general. Fathers because of their rejection from the family unit. Sons particularly, because of education imbalances to which all women including mothers are complicet through endorsement.

      My parting comment is ladies, you have a long way to come back to be respected humans. I have never witnessed a more conceited, self centred species, enthralled in their own space at the behest of feminism. Frankly men don’t give a flying fig about you or feminism. Like talking to the fence post..

      The Australian figureheads like G. Greer particularly, projected purile philosophy based on hatred and self inadequacies. Well you followed like sheep and are now reaping the contempt deserved. Your procreative inheritance is all that saves you

      Only men could have survived the collective bias against them. So don’t pop the champers yet as you have underestimated the fortitude of the foes you have created. With the surge against feminism they are coming to get you. And based on the ground rules you have set, don’t expect any mercy.

    • Paul Horn says:

      07:27pm | 16/04/10

      You know Ray the most inspiring or frightening comment to spew forth form Germaine Greers lips was that the greatest gift of feminism was teh ability of woman to destroy their marriage and secondly there has never been more division and hatred between the sexes now than at any other time in history! What an obituary hey!

      You know the thing that really rankles me though Ray is that all the tripe talk about women in the Thirld World suffering from all this imagined oppression is that they live far more harmoniously and happily with their male counterparts than any rights infested self indulged white western woman. The fact is the vast majority of decent thirld world women would not have a bar of degenerate Western feminism , not one bar of this dirty filth! 

      Having travelled extensively throughout Asia, the Middle East and some parts of Africa I have always been struck by the refreshing innocence with which the female gender engages you. Often very flirtatious but refreshingly innocent and respectful.  Contrast that to the pornographic flesh exposing trollopes this country generates all in the name of the dirty lying feminist mantra that “women have the right to wear whatever they want” and it makes you truly disgusted.

      Feminism is a genetic degeneration common only to the white female anglo saxon race requiring all its proponents to be housed in an insane asylum!!!

    • Jamie says:

      08:49pm | 16/04/10

      Now you’re just joking right? What, no mercy because you’re going to kill all women and wipe out humankind? Why do you sound like an extremist?

      Seriously, you need to find better friends to hang out with if you have such a warped, bitter view of life.

    • Rachel says:

      10:47am | 17/04/10

      The idea of ‘men’ as a grouping that you can discuss and attach thoughts, personality traits and behaviours to doesn’t exist.  The only defining characteristic of a man is that he has an XY gene and physical sexual organs to match. Every thing else is just stereotypes. Same goes for women.

      The comments from Ray and Paul Horn are disturbing and sexist.  They just can’t accept that women have equal rights to men.  That is the only reason why Paul Horn glorifies women in third world countries who don’t have equal rights and are submissive to men.  It’s quite ok with these two men for women to be bashed, killed, raped and controlled by men (which happens in third world countries) just so long as the women stay in their rightful submissive roles, oh and, it’s all done behind closed doors.

    • Ray says:

      11:06am | 17/04/10

      Jamie, same mercy extended to men. Zilch. I don’t sound like an extremist just a feminist.

    • Ray says:

      10:05am | 18/04/10

      Rachel, please point out where the content of you last para was uttered. Just the usual quantum leep of a feeble minded feminist

    • Zac says:

      03:00pm | 18/04/10

      Rachel says:11:47am | 17/04/10

      The idea of ‘men’ as a grouping that you can discuss and attach thoughts, personality traits and behaviours to doesn’t exist.  The only defining characteristic of a man is that he has an XY gene and physical sexual organs to match. Every thing else is just stereotypes. Same goes for women.——-

      Keep your twisted feminismAtheistic moral relativism to yourself.  How about you crazy feminists find an island and live happily ever after. Why poison the whole society. Take that Greeeer with you as well.

    • Daniel says:

      03:06pm | 16/04/10

      If women are indeed payed significantly less than men for *identical* work, why aren’t companies all around Australia exclusively employing women? The amount of money they could save would be phenomenal. Why aren’t men finding it near impossible to find work, being the more expensive person to employ?

      I am genuinely curious to hear the reasoning behind this

    • Ben H says:

      03:29pm | 16/04/10

      In the space of a few decades, most women have transformed from the status of respected and appreciated wives and mothers (real success), into money slaves and sexual objects. They seem seldom interested in becoming wives and mothers; their career -and getting ahead of men- is more important. The whole male/female dynamic, along with men’s rights, has been bulldozed. Feminism is a globalist crock designed to double taxation revenue and spread the false, destructive man = oppressor, woman = victim mentality. The manufactured feminism phenomenon (which should be called masculinism, as only the opposite of femininity is evident) is a clever ruse designed to tear families and the social fabric apart. In the new world order, women are worshipped, men are redundant. Mens’ role and entire sense of status has been taken away from us. International Women’s Day is modelled on an old Soviet Communist day for ‘oppressed women looking for equality’. The day is designed to make women feel oppressed and subsequently hate the ‘oppressors’ - men. Motherhood (giving birth, raising and showing feminine love and care for a child) is for women. Fatherhood (loving, providing for and disciplining a child) is for men. Feminist propaganda throughout media and education teaches vulnerable young ‘ladies’ (ladettes) to separate the concepts of giving birth and motherhood. This is like trying to separate the alcohol from the wine; defeats the purpose of the whole. Millions of disenfranchised men are scratching their heads wondering what the hell went wrong, often blaming themselves for being victims in such a hostile environment. Feminism is the enemy of values, family and morality, and feminists are anything but beautiful. Don’t worry though girls, feminism will reward you by leaving you used, dried-up, jaded and alone like your role models from Sex and the City.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      07:48pm | 06/08/10

      Feminism will leave us used, dried up and jaded….not men??

      This is a new one by a man.  Blaming International Womens Day for women hating men, as opposed to the usual feminism.  It couldn’t possibly be the proliferation of men telling women what they should want, have and feel It is, in fact,  International Womens Day. 

      What next, men will claim women hate them because of the Flowers of Holland festival? 

      Ben H claims that women have turned away from pregnancy and motherhood.  Tell that to the thousands of feminists and their partners turning up to Baby Bunting every Sunday, spending up a storm on Bugaboo.

      .

      And Ben reckons that men exist in a hostile environment….

    • Talon says:

      03:39pm | 16/04/10

      Femanism has reached a point where any further equal rites would deprive women of some very comfortable alleged perogatives.  Do not get me wrong, equal pay should still be fought for and also the jobs that are still dominated by the males gender.

      Some young women are sexually promiscuous, drink excessively, lie, cheat, foul mouthed, brutish / violent.  They have lost their femininity in short.  Who are their roll models?  They have become unattractive in the eyes of most men no matter how beutiful and energetic they are on the outside when they want someting.  Yes men have a brain and can tell when you are just after another alcoholic drink.

      Femanist cannnot realy argue that they are less financially secure when they retire because of the stop start nature of employment.  They are provided with paid maternity leave and an OPTION to suspend employment to stay at home with the child.  Other choices are that the return to work after paid maternity and pay for child care or have the hubby stay home unpaid without maternity leave.

      Men are more financially secure upon retirement because we do not stop working.  Males have never had the option of staying at home with the new or young family.  We had to go out and provide (bring home the porceeds of the hunt… Grunt) for our loved ones.  No complaints - this has always been what was expected of us and still is, even by some feminist standards.

      We only need to look to our more gross celebrities to see that pushing too far to become equal in the acceptance of poor personal behavour leaves you disliking what is reflected in the mirror.

      In the legal system the scales are tilting too far in one direction leaveing children to suffer.  Even today a story broke where a judge would consider returning a child to their mother even though she is definitly not a suitable guardian.

    • Outback Gazz says:

      09:28pm | 16/04/10

      Germaine Greer must be proud of all today’s modern women with their attitude problems !!!!!!!!!!

    • Belinda says:

      10:20pm | 16/04/10

      I cannot conceive of a professional realm where pays are equal whilst salaries are contractually confidential and employees can be dismissed (or be threatened with dismissal) for revealing them.  If the legislatures of this fine country are serious about equal pay, they need to make such confidentiality provisions void and they need to advertise that fact.

    • Paul Horn says:

      01:50pm | 17/04/10

      Oh dear Belinda your ignorance astounds me. Even though this country is almost a Socialist dictatorship we still have a semblance of something called market forces and a capitalist system. You see in my own case every time I seek another job I am rewarded with a significant pay rise dependent on what market forces dictate. As a Project Manager I have enjoyed very little competition and hence have commanded renumeration reflecting the market environment. In a depressed economy competition would be greater and that would be reflected in my renumeration.

      There are other employess who have worked in my company for far longer than myself and are not as well renumerated. But that is up to them to gauge their worth and if they are unhappy to negotiate with senior mangement. If they don’t like the result they can always walk and find another employer only to happy to pay them their worth.

      You agree to work for a certain salary when an employer takes you on so be happy with that. If not don’t take the job. You owe it to yourself to manage your career. Wages are a massive component of most companies costs and it is only normal for them to try and reduce such burdens.

      Your argumemt is actually an argument for paying everyone less and therefore stifling productivity and throwing us back to Union dominated agreements leading to massive unemployment and equally large decreases in productivity!!!! Please think before writing.

    • Frustratedwithfeminsm says:

      08:27am | 17/04/10

      This article articulates oh so neatly why I am so frustrated with the whole “feminism” thing.  In the slavish devotion to ensuring that women on average earn as much as men, it is not taken into account that the whole point of the equality of the sexes is not that women become men, with all their stats and characteristics, but that both genders have equality of choice and opportunity.  What the feminist agenda keeps spruiking is the $ earning and economic statistics.  A good part of the disparity is that women have more split in their focus. Many women WANT to spend time away from the obligatory career, to have and raise babies.  Feminists don’t want us to have this choice. No, that might compromise our career progress.  We are expected to be able to put our newborns in universally available 1:5 ratio childcare and head on back with our hammers to continue the attack on the glass ceiling.
      .. and the “feminist” agenda has failed to avoid slipping into and churning out a campaign of hatred against men. Against our husband, our sons.  The feminist movement isn’t selling a product I want to buy.  Rebrand it and make it more inclusive of the men we love. When the movement stops discriminating against men, and starts lobbying for equity through greater choice for men as well as women, then maybe I’ll have a fresh look.

    • Ray says:

      11:00am | 17/04/10

      @Frustrated, Women don’t love men. Try to convince yourselves, with a very peculiar way of showing it. You don’t set on a path to take someone off at the knees and then extend an olive branch hand. Grow up.

    • Sue says:

      08:49am | 18/04/10

      Boy Ray,  I guess you must have been through the mill. Your pain is really showing.

    • Zac says:

      02:41pm | 18/04/10

      Rebrand it and make it more inclusive of the men we love. When the movement stops discriminating against men, and starts lobbying for equity through greater choice for men as well as women, then maybe I’ll have a fresh look.

      Thanks!!! You are a great women!

    • Cooties says:

      09:33am | 17/04/10

      I dont know how everyone got so angry.
      I dont know about the bra burning feminists of the 60’s but the feminism I support is about seeing people as people, rather than a role they are meant to fill as a man/woman.

      I would like to see men stay-at-home just as frequently as women without a stigma attached or a “wow look at that” reaction. I would like to see women not feel obligated to opt out of their careers to care for children or feel selfish for choosing to be working mums.
      The same way the entire media aims household related issues towards women. Not nearly enough single-fathers are promoted as heroes as much as women. And just because we are the ‘nuturing sex’ doesn’t mean they aren’t just as tender as loving as single mums.
      Why are women cast into this makeup wearing, watching the Notebook and sobbing, shallow sex and men the tough, beer drinking, brawls in bars and big cars sex?
      And any man that goes against his roles is either a ‘fag’ or a metro. What about just a person? Who cares if he drinks white wine and I scream at the soccer?

      People are people. Some are nice, some are mean, some are shallow, some are minipulative, yes, some are bitter and jaded, but others are forgiving and open-minded. The way people are should be judged on their attitudes, experiences and culture, not first based on their sex.

      Because if I, and all your daughters, sisters, neices are going to be judged first on our gender and how we fit that stereotype, are we ever going to move past judging men by how “manly” they are?
      We may aswell all be Barbie’s dating beefcakes? And in that world, there aren’t any girls to perve on at the soccer and no men shaking it on the dancefloor.

      There is no anger here. I feel sorry for you men too, as you have your roles to play as much as we do. Its bull for both sexes.

    • Ray says:

      10:56am | 17/04/10

      Cooties, all men’s roles have been taken away. We have to dismantle everything that men identify with. Women have loved it and that’s why men are angry and boys are confused and ashamed to be a man. Congatulations.

    • JOn says:

      10:00am | 17/04/10

      Equal Rites…. riiiiight up until there is somthing heavy to move..

    • Cooties says:

      11:14am | 17/04/10

      Haha, there is always the heavy boxes and the scary spiders (and programming VCR’s and holding out hands in the scary bots of movies). We will always need you boys around, the same way half the boys I know can’t bake a mean cupcake or redecorate the living room half as well as I can.
      It goes both ways.

      smile

    • Rachel says:

      11:14am | 17/04/10

      Gender roles are the biggest problem in society. A person should be judged on who they are, not on their gender.  Gender is just like skin colour, it is a physical trait that does not mean you know what someone’s personality will be like.

      I notice a lot of the people commenting on feminism being a bad thing are bringing up gender roles.  They talk about women going out drinking, being promiscuous and generally acting unladylike.  The word unladylike suggests there is a way that a lady should act.  I don’t see why gender has to come into it at all.  If a man got so drunk he fell over, got in fights, didn’t remember things or went home with women he didn’t know, he should be judged the same as if a woman were to do it.

      The genders are not judged equally on how they behave in society.  It is still considered ok, and even encouraged, for men to sleep with a lot of women, but if a woman were to sleep with a lot of men, she would be called a slut. 

      Until people are judged for their actions instead of their gender, men and women will not be truly equal.

    • BTS says:

      11:15am | 17/04/10

      Or the lawn needs mowing…

    • Wombat says:

      12:34am | 18/04/10

      I’m all for equality - right up until it’s time to change a nappy.

    • Zac says:

      12:26pm | 17/04/10

      Can you tell me when anything to do “ISM’s” was about liberation or in this case women? What is the basis of assumptions like “men and women are equal”? Secularism, Atheism, Darwinism/Social Darwinism, Omnipotent Chance? Tell my friends about “feminism” and they go beserk, they have LOST everything - wife, family, home etc - to feminism. How do you liberate women by hating men? How do you liberate women by burning their braNpanties? How do you liberate women by socially conditoning them to wear breast poping our dresses/outfits? While women in Islamic countries are the possesions of men, women in the western world are “sex objects” of men and abortion acts as insurance and STD is the norm? I am the father of few girls and in NO I want my lovely girls anything to do with men hating ideology - feminism or for that matter secularism. You guys package and sell such repression as - feminism and then you have the audacity to accuse Christians.

      Here is an eye opener from an recovering liberal women, an excerpt (google to read full article) from the article “The Wilding of Sarah Palin”

      What else should have tipped me off? Perhaps the fact that so many men in ultra-left Berkeley are sleazebags. Rarely a week goes by that I don’t hear stories from my young female clients about middle-aged men preying on them. With the rationale of moral relativism, these creeps feel they can do anything they please.

      What finally woke me up were the utterances of “bitch,” “witch,” and “monster” toward Hillary Clinton and her supporters early last year. I was shocked into reality: the trash-talk wasn’t coming from conservatives, but from male and female liberals. 

      I finally beheld what my eyes had refused to see: that leftists are Mr. and Ms. Misogyny. Neither the males nor the females care a whit about women.

      Women are continually sacrificed on the altar of political correctness. If under radical Islam women are enshrouded and stoned and beheaded, so be it.

      My other epiphanies: those ponytailed guys were marching for abortion rights not because they cherished women’s reproductive freedom, but to keep women available for free and easy sex. 

      And the eagerness for women to make good money? If women work hard, leftist men don’t have to.

    • Jessica says:

      12:57pm | 17/04/10

      Wow. I didn’t even read all the comments and the ones I did filled me with a sense of disgust. Does it matter who invented what? Does it matter that it is called ‘feminism’ and not ‘equalityism’ this surely is a joke? It doesn’t matter what it is called, what matters is the idea behind it. Giving women the rights that our male counterparts receive. Giving us choices in life.

      I ever hear people saying that women do have equal rights and sexual discrimination isn’t an issue anymore and . . .well, that is complete bollocks! I’ve been a victim of discrimination in a work-place. Treated like an idiot because I was a woman, yelled at, harassed and even had my boss calling me ‘girly, woman and the dreaded ‘luv’‘. He some time later hired a male who was a son of a friend of his and even though the dolt had no experience or qualifications . . . his salary was higher than mine because ‘men in the marine industry would better relate to a man and thus he would be able to further the name of the company than I would’  When I tried to report him to his bosses I got no interest.

      That is just one example, just my example of how equality in the workplace can be a problem still.

      Oh and Jon . . . I’d rather lift all my own heavy stuff than have a moron like you do it for me.

    • Zac says:

      02:05pm | 18/04/10

      Does it matter that it is called ‘feminism’ and not ‘equalityism’ this surely is a joke?—-

      Jessica, in market place of ideas, feminism lost the plot ages ago. Feminism was never about equality, never is and never will be. May be feminism started off with a good idea but ended up poisoning male-female gender relationship. Why? because the motive was evil, it was all about - bashing men - HATE. It will NOT work, we men will put it in it’s place. It breaks our heart when feminists try to twist and separate our women from us. Instead of working together, we are working against each other. Why would my wife and girls want anything to do with feminism when I am able to respect them, love them and care for them without the most vicious men hating anti-social and leftist ideology - Feminism.

      Jessica, most men are not sexists but you would always find some who
      are sexists like the feminists. If you are looking for healthy male-female relationship and equality it is high time you heed the thoughts of Rev. Martin Luther King. Here is an excerpt from his speech “I have a Dream”...

      I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

      I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

      I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

      I have a dream today!

      I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of “interposition” and “nullification”—one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

      I have a dream today!

    • Anti-feminist says:

      02:41pm | 18/04/10

      Maybe men in the marine industry would better be able to relate to other men. It’s the same as women would be more likely to get a job working in a childcare centre, a women’s gym or somewhere else with a lot of female clients to relate to.

      It’s not an equality issue- it’s a practicality issue. Sometimes there’s just more to being fit for the job than having a paper qualification.

    • sam says:

      03:31pm | 17/04/10

      The only time this will ever be resolved is when men can physically have babies! Sadly it is a general view when employers see a woman - they mentally account for probability of marriage and then kids, days off to look after kids, etc.  Plus women are genetically built to be more sacrificial, so we work hard but don’t demand any more for that work. It is rather like in a relationship we get grumpy because our fellows don’t do things for us unless we demand it (well they should be able to read our minds - come on!), while we do things for them all the time. We are built differently because we’re meant to compliment each other and our roles should be seen as equally important . This isn’t the case now, so women are out there juggling a career, the housework and the family for less pay just to feel ‘equal’, whilst for blokes they can concentrate mostly on their careers for more pay.

    • John says:

      11:58pm | 17/04/10

      I have just tried to sit there are read through many of the replies. So many angry people on both sides of what has turned into an argument.

      My opinion on the word ‘Feminism’ is that, as a male I do not disagree with the basic premise, but I can’t help that feel that it should be, and should have been ‘equality’.

      I totally agree that women should be given every right that is afforded to every male.

      I feel that the word has been tainted by people who use the word to either unduly deprive basic human rights or gain undue advantage using the words of ‘feminism’ as a tool. I think that both men and women are guilty of this, and that this is the biggest hurdle towards ‘equality’ between the sexes.

      I don’t for a second to claim to be a saint by saying that I never judge women unfairly. I’m also guilty of judging men unfairly. We are all guilty of this. However I think it is the true measure of a human being that we can recognize this and work to improve ourselves, and therefore improve our society for others.

      I believe that it is not until we all try harder at this that we will see true equality.

      ‘Feminism’ has obviously been a great start, but it needs to evolve beyond what it has become and try to become a movement for ‘equality’

      And to that end, as has been noted (specifically by Frustratedwithfeminsm) does equality equal money?

      Of course having said all that I could just be totally wrong. But I thought I’d put it out there anyway.

    • Ms. says:

      07:09am | 18/04/10

      Feminism is a dirty word because there has been a significant backlash against it where feminists have been demonised and made into hysterical, hairy legged, ‘man-hating’ caricatures. This has had the effect of making many women feel ashamed and embarrassed to call themselves feminists and demand their human rights. It’s a very clever and effective silencing tactic. Ironically, the women mentioned in the article who see no need for feminism achieved their success and privilege on the backs of feminist women who went before them. Thankfully such women are still active and fighting for change regardless, including Third World women who have even more to fight for than the relatively privileged women in the West.

    • Anton says:

      07:27am | 18/04/10

      Feminism has been achieved in the majority of the western world. Problem with it that in the eyes of the law women are more equal than men. The same old feminist ideals are often trotted out (notably about equal pay) regularly without analysis of what they are actually saying. Of course a woman will earn less if they a. work part time, b. take a lesser paid career, c. take time off for children. The sad reality of feminism is this - you cannot be a high paid part time single mother CEO of a fortune 500 company with a 1 month on your breast whilst your 2 year old plays at your feet. Feminism should have stopped at the opportunity to choose you life’s path - work or family and true equality of gender would be the opportunity of men AND women to have the opportunity to choose the same. I for one would love to stay home with the children but as I work in an industry that pays better (along with a strong female workforce who work mostly part time at THEIR CHOICE) I have to stay working fulltime. And to re-emphasise Eric’s previous link - hate is real modern feminism. http://www.fatherhoodcoalition.org/cpf/newreadings/2001/feminist_hate_speech.htm

    • Kylie says:

      10:19am | 18/04/10

      I have no issue with Feminism persay - I believe all people are equal and should be treated so… my issue is the the only people I have ever met that give themselves the label of “feminist” aren’t true poponants of the movement, they sneer and look down at women who make choices they don’t agree with but isn’t the whole point to have a choice, When the time comes and if financially I am able I will CHOOSE to stay home with my children for as long as possible. It will not be something forced upon me, it will be what I want. What I feel is the best start for my family. I CHOOSE to take my husbands surname as I do not want a different name to my children and am not all that attached to mine anyway, I don’t associate my name with my identity. I know who I am.

      When women out there stop using feminism as a cover up for man-hating and realise that choosing your family over work is not anti the movement, then and only then might I be willing to stand up and be a proud supporter of group in todays world.

    • nic says:

      12:28pm | 18/04/10

      hello people….the bigger issue here is that we are taking the opinions of The Body, Lady Ga Ga and a beauty queen as the new voice of feminism…..

    • Jud says:

      01:13pm | 18/04/10

      Genetically men have much a much higher standard deviation for variation. Men and women average out the same but men have more at the top and the bottom.
      There are more men with higher intellects than woman and more men with lower. They are both the tallest and the shortest. More likely to reach positions of power and more likely to be homeless.
      More likely to be in prison, die in the workplace,  a drug addict, forced into war (“my body my choice”.. not for men its not), lose parental rights and eventually will die younger than women.
      Men have it good and bad, advantages and disadvantages, but in the western world, to suggest that men are responsible for the disadvantages of being female is ludicrous.
      If women really earned less than men for exactly the same job why would companies ever hire men?

    • Anti-feminist says:

      02:38pm | 18/04/10

      Women make less money now because they choose to make less money. They have every opportunity to pursue full-time work and have the father of their child stay at home with it before it is school-aged, but they choose to give up work because they want to be around their baby. Men don’t often get so much of a choice.

      All the battles are won. Women have all the opportunities men have now, and more besides (women only scholarships, anyone?), but they still complain. Feminists today have nothing to struggle against. Rather, they just want to have their cake and eat it too.

      It makes me ashamed of my gender!

    • Catherine Rose says:

      06:02pm | 06/08/10

      As opposed to being ashamed of your gender because of comments made by Elle McPherson (an entrepreneur) or the emerging culture of stripper as the barometer of female sexuality.

      Naturally, you would instead be ashamed of your gender because of feminism.

    • Samantha says:

      09:54pm | 18/04/10

      It is amazing reading all the comments. Women and men both have their roles in life and that is how nature intended. Feminism has had its day and pushed for equality for women but one thing no-one wanted to take into he account is the role of carer of their off-spring.  Basically women are now working two full-time jobs and are basically asking for the assistance from their partners. Domestic, caring work is required to be done by all. If everyone participated without being constantly asked or nagged then life would be great. I really believe that men need to stop expecting their partners to take on the role of their mothers, and, women need to stop thinking can this man afford me - especially when they cannot contribute equally. Men and women need to contribute equally and make the necessary compromises (and that means that someone has to sacrifice something at some stage for the benefit of their relationship and their off-spring. Being selfish and uncompromising just does not work!!

    • KM says:

      10:15pm | 18/04/10

      The thing is daughters generally don’t want to be like their mums. My mum always says to me “why don’t you become a lawyer or scientist instead of a fashion designer, I fought hard for women’s rights ...” etc. The thing is just becasue I CAN do those things doesn’t mean I want to. My mum can’t cook, sew, or iron, but I can do all of these (though is not doing these feminist?).  Every generation is differant and has concerns about differant things.

    • Jason says:

      11:33pm | 18/04/10

      inequality against women? really? last time I was outside walking around in reality, women were pushing into the front of the line at clubs when the men had been waiting for an hour n then getting rejected, clubs had ladies nights where they get drinks free but still they wouldn’t get a drink for a guy, women teachers who sexually abuse students walk free whereas male teachers go to gaol, bisexual women are free to flirt with and touch female colleagues but if a man looked for a second too long or says something she does not like that’s sexual assault.

      I am an Australian, and we are living in a woman’s world, not a man’s world.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      05:57pm | 06/08/10

      Yes because true inequality against women can be measured at clubs and ladies nights.

      Leaving hysteria aside, if sexual assault as a punishable crime was really just looking for a second too long, most men would be in gaol for life. 

      Female teachers abusing male students.  Responses from men to cases such as this have ranged from ‘lucky bastard’ to ‘oh well! if that was a man bla bla bla’  Never a word of compassion or concern for the welfare of the child. 

      But I’m sure men can still find a way to blame feminism for the culture of man or boy as hero when it comes to ‘scoring’

    • Michael says:

      01:41am | 19/04/10

      I do believe that the feminist movement has gone too far.

      As a boy growing up in the 80s, I had lessons in school telling me about how men were sexist.

      I remember one lesson where we were told a story about a husband and wife who swapped roles for the day because the man said her job was easier. What followed was a farce that proved only that the man was an idiot (It included one part where the man put a cow on the roof to graze and tied it to himself to prevent it falling off - as you would expect the cow feel and took the man with him)

      The story finished with the wife coming home from working out in the fields all day saying she had a wonderful time. The story was used as a serious (though exaggerated) example of men and women in society. Men were clearly portrayed as uncaring, greedy and stupid. Women were portrayed as talented and hard working, if only those horrible men would give them a go.

      I traveled around a lot as a child, and so attended many different schools and had similar lessons in just about all of them. This wasn’t an isolated case.

      In the midst of these lessons about male sexism, I heard women whining about men in general (“Men are all the same” was a popular complaint). I have seen similar things at University and as an adult.

      I have seen too many women who claim to be fighting for equality, but will complain about sexist jokes, for example, while quite happy to engage in what they called “male bashing”. I have met women who jump to the conclusion of sexism without considering other possible explanations.

      The hypocrisy of most of the women I have heard from that call themselves feminists is surprising. On the other hand, I don’t see this very much in the women I see these days in the real world, so maybe feminists are a fading (if very vocal) group of people.

      If you believe that there are still battles to be won in the cause of female equality, then your biggest hurdle to overcome is the hypocrisy of those that are sometimes referred to as “feminazis “. It’s very hard to tell the difference between someone who is just looking for a fair go, and someone looking to push their own sexist agenda.

      Incidentally, I do think that the current feeling that there should be a reasonable percentage of both genders in every career is silly. I don’t care if you are talking about male teachers or female engineers, extra training courses, added incentives etc. based on gender are sexist. I have nothing against either male teachers or female engineers, but unequal training or incentives should not be considered acceptable.

    • Mel says:

      06:34am | 19/04/10

      I feel sorry for the 26-yr-old and all the other 18-30 year old women who think feminism is meaningless, passe or are afraid to identify as feminists.

      Don’t think you need feminism? Try getting a job as a construction worker aka ‘builder’ in Australia.

      Don’t think you need feminism? Try wading thru the troll posts on this site to read the legit posts. Trolls=95% white and male

    • Ray says:

      07:15am | 19/04/10

      Mel, you are the white female trash that has turned your Mr 95% against women. Read the preceding female comment by ‘Anti-feminist’.

      Even some women can recognise the other conceited, shallow self centred females, in a position of social ascendency that enables them to behave like social lepers beyonf accountability. As I said earlier with out your procreation inheritance you don’t deserve a place on this earth..

      Feminism may be the new ‘f’ word.  Well I think female is THE ‘f’ word.

    • Zac says:

      10:16am | 19/04/10

      Try wading thru the troll posts on this site to read the legit posts. Trolls=95% white and male—-

      Mel, This is just your opinion NOT a fact. How about countering the posts of the so called trolls?

      Thank God for women like Jessica (read her comment below) who are not socially engineered by feminist ideology

      Quote

      While there are a number of comments here from men supporting the claim that women have no place in front line combat roles, i thought that a supporting womens point of view was needed as well. I agree - women have no place in front line combat roles. I would be devastated if my dad fough in a war and came home in a body bag, but my mum - that would be a different story, that would be enough to make you think about suicide. Women have a very special role within the family and to destroy and undermine it by wanting to be in combat roles is just wrong. On top of that - all this feminist shit needs to be done away with. Im sick of it. Women are not equal to men, they cant do everything that a man can and thats that. Its the simple laws of nature and nurture. People wonder what happened to chivilary - well feminists burned it at the stake!

      Jessica of Sydney Posted at 5:12 PM November 04, 2009, Equality for women in war is lunacy

    • Jason says:

      10:36pm | 20/04/10

      Mel, if a woman is strong enough to work in construction she can get the job. What about a man getting a job as a secretary, receptionist, admin, serving at Donut King, Gloria Jeans, Michele’s, etc.. should men be forced into having to do all the heavy work just because they are male? is not that inequality? since women and men are equally strong women should share the load… come on, leave your admin work for us, grab your shovel and start building

    • Catherine Rose says:

      05:43pm | 06/08/10

      Zac quotes Jessica and feels validated that a token woman thinks that feminism is irrelevant and that ‘women are not equal to men’.

      One would wonder what she is doing on the internet, giving her ‘opinion’ (the natural domain of men) instead of darning socks, washing dishes, and scrubbing the skid marks off her husbands underpants by hand! 

      Those damned feminists, giving these modern women the right to bite the hand that has fed them!

    • Helen says:

      08:54am | 19/04/10

      The level of education and critical thinking on these threads make me despair for Australia in general, let alone the status of women.

    • Eric says:

      10:07am | 19/04/10

      True, Helen, the feminists are pretty bad at critical thinking, and ignorant where gender issues are concerned.

      On the other hand, there is hope, as it is evident that more and more people are waking up to the lies and hatred that make up feminism.

    • Zac says:

      10:30am | 19/04/10

      Then how would you explain the crisis facing intelligent people in Harvard and wall street today (read excerpts below)?

      Can you also explain - how the intelligent Harvardite, critical thinker and messiah - Obama began his political career in the living rooms of weather bomber Ayers? Why Obama spent 20+ years in that Racist “God damn America” Church and his association with Chicago thugs and ACORN?

      Excerpt

      Only a year ago, Harvard had a $36.9 billion endowment, the largest in academia. Now that endowment has imploded, and the university faces the worst financial crisis in its 373-year history. Could the same lethal mix of uncurbed expansion, colossal debt, arrogance, and mismanagement that ravaged Wall Street bring down America’s most famous university? And how much of the turmoil is the fault of former Harvard president Larry Summers, now a top economic adviser to President Obama?

      Ref: Rich Harvard, Poor Harvard, Nina Munk, August 2009

    • Catherine Rose says:

      05:37pm | 06/08/10

      Eric says that feminists are ignorant where gender issues are concerned.

      Eric must be an uber-feminist, then.

    • Paul says:

      10:09am | 19/04/10

      Interesting that so many feminists (e.g. Andrea Dworkin, Marilyn French, Germaine Greer et al), mirror to a large degree the same kind of behaviour and thought of the men they accuse and hate so much.
      So, what does that make these ‘womyn’ who peddle the same kind of hate-based thinking?* Are they any better than the men they hate so much? Do 2 wrongs make a right?
      I think not.

      I have a dream… Refer to Zac’s comment above. (Well said Zac!)

      * Have a look at some prime examples of Feminist Hate-Speech that underpins so much feminist “thinking”: http://www.fatherhoodcoalition.org/cpf/newreadings/2001/feminist_hate_speech.htm

      What do you say to that feminists? Are the comments on that web page – by leading figures in the feminist world – great examples of education and critical thinking?

      This is what I say:
      Peace, equality, respect and love between all men and women.

    • Zac says:

      10:59am | 19/04/10

      Let - I Have a Dream , DEFEAT hateful and divisive feminism! Thanks Paul.

    • Zac says:

      11:14am | 19/04/10

      I recently heard some women have given up on perfumes as they like men’s after shave. I am really curious to know if anyone has come across simillar stories? Are these women victims of feminim?

    • girl says:

      08:11pm | 20/04/10

      i have been wearing mens aftershave for years. it smells much better. not making any statements, just like the smell

    • Ray says:

      11:53am | 19/04/10

      There ARE many hateful blogs on this site (men and women).

      Men because they have been shut out of society and are reacting. Women because that is how they’ve been indoctrinated in to hatered of men.

      The biggest fear women have is trying to ensure men are never brought into the mainstream realm of social inclusion. To give and inch might open the door to consider men in our social framewwork as well as women. So women see a need to maintain the exclusion of men from funding, legislation, structural framework and social inclusion aspects of society.

      Feminism or hatred is the root cause of such a purile mentality.

      Men don’t need action groups spruiking their cause, and are hard wired to look after themselves. They are just collectively detesting women more and more . Men detest women because of the lock out mentality of all women, including those that do not overtly wave the feminist banner.

      I once had great principles directed towards women. But continual derision, dismantling and stereotyping of men has turned me the full 180 degrees. Dismantled those principles .

      Feminism and the sheep following it have led me to have nothing but utter contempt for women. Sad really.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      05:30pm | 06/08/10

      Men have blamed women for everything since Eve ate the apple.  Whats a little more blame? 

      Men are the major decision and policy makers of THIS society.  Government, business, sport, religion, and everything that shapes this society is predominantly run by men.  How are men ‘excluded’ exactly, unless they are excluding themselves and blaming feminism - which isn’t something new.

      Are you also a woman?  Is that how you know what our biggest fear is?  I didn’t realise it might be something like losing a baby! No, in fact it is letting men into the policy making that they are already of in charge of.

      Silly me

    • Mel says:

      09:03am | 20/04/10

      Anyone with a basic understanding of feminism would know that it’s not about gaining power and privilege over men. It’s simply demanding women and girls their human rights and that they are not oppressed because they happen to be female. It’s very simple. Feminism didn’t just appear out of the clear blue sky. It’s a theory firmly rooted in the real, lived experiences of women and girls the world over. It’s a response to the oppression of women, not an arbitrary attack on men. If some men have contempt for women and girls demanding their full human rights, then that is a sign of male privilege, woman-hatred and fear, not a sign that there is something wrong with feminism.

    • Eric says:

      09:45am | 20/04/10

      Feminism is an ideology that claims men are oppressors and women are victims. Consequently, it calls for a struggle to put down men and to favour women. This is a manifestation of female privilege, systematically denying men’s rights.

      Feminism is a hate movement against men. By its very nature, it can be nothing else.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      04:43pm | 06/08/10

      Mel, someone responded to your logical point with a rant that said that feminism is just a hate movement directed at men and that men are denied rights?

      What rights do men actually need to fight for? 

      - The right to be CEO, sexually harrass women and NOT get pulled up for it.

      - The right to have light beer and Holden Barinas eradicated.

      - The right to a 24 hour boob channel, where wives and girlfriends sit and admire said boobs so much they then insist on FFM threesome.

      - The right to child custody so their mum, grandma, can look after the kids.

      No, hold on, must be their right to have women clean the house and cook their meals wearing nothing but a G-string and heels.

      Damn, Id be angry too!

    • Mel says:

      12:24pm | 20/04/10

      Rape, sexual assault, rape as a weapon of war, the denial of women and girl’s education, forced child marriage and childbirth, domestic violence, sexual exploitation, incest, child abuse, homophobic violence, sexual harrassment, oppression of women and girls on religious and cultural grounds etc. These injustices are largely the domain of men. They are instances of oppression by (mostly) men, most often against women, girls and marginalised men and boys. So yes, women are victims of male oppression in many ways and men are largely doing the oppressing. Feminism does not respond by trying to ‘out oppress men’, but simply by striving to correct these injustices. If these injustices did not exist, if there was no such thing as the oppression of women and girls, there would be no need for feminism. Simple. I don’t understand the rage and contempt directed at women for demanding what is rightfully their’s in the first place.

      Also, if you are concerned for the rights of men, then you need look no further than your own sandpit, because men’s health, safety, and lives are at most risk from other men, not women. That is a sad fact. Feminism challenges damaging conceptions of masulinity that drive that destructive behaviour, to the benefit of men as well as women. I’m not sure what ‘men’s rights’ organisations are doing to address the destructive behaviours of men that are causing so much injury and loss of life of young men on our roads and streets every weekend. But if you look at the stats, women are the least of men’s worries.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      03:21pm | 06/08/10

      Feminists voice real grievances of men who have deliberately tried to oppress them.

      Mens rights advocates voice grievances over things they do to themselves, or other men, but then try to blame feminists or women, in general for.

    • Peter says:

      08:59am | 07/11/12

      Feminists voice real grievences that apply to women, then try to imply that only men are responsible. When men bring up the grievences that apply to them they either deny that they exist or attempt to canonise women as being above all this sexism stuff.

    • Catherine Rose says:

      03:53pm | 06/08/10

      A feminist woman at The Age recently brought up the valid topic of sexism against women, in advertisements.

      She received many responses from male bloggers, who said her theory was invalid because she didn’t defend the way men where poorly represented instead.

      For each positive response from a man, there where maybe 20 negative responses.  Yet women are supposed to care about the plight of men, when they show little or no regard for ours.

    • Peter says:

      08:56am | 07/11/12

      They were perfectly justified to do so. Taking a non-gendered issue and then gendering minimises and distracts from the fact that BOTH genders are affected by stereotypes. You, as a human being, are supposed to care about the plight of other human beings regardless of their gender. And not to present your own group as being uniquely oppressed when this isn’t the case.

    • Peter says:

      08:53am | 07/11/12

      The reason feminism has gotten bad press “of late” (over the past 50 years) is because it’s earned it. There’s been a hell of alot of hate and extremism along the way and feminists like the author have terrible difficulty owning up to that. It’s much easier to pretend that it’s just “bad press” or “bad labelling.”

 

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