Houston wee have a problem

St. Michael says:

11:57am | 02/10/11

The four friends felt the need to call the Sunday Mail because, like most anonymous coward whingers, they didn’t have sufficient guts to go and say they felt it was inappropriate to the woman’s face at the time it happened.

Possibly because they would have gotten a response along these lines:

“Look, I have two other kids with me, my husband’s away on FIFO, and they have no nappy changing facilities in the toilets here, although they do have several communicable diseases because people like yourselves don’t wash your hands after using the commode.  I appreciate your discontent, but changing a nappy takes all of roughly fifteen to twenty seconds or so, so if your disgust is so uncontrollable for that period of time, you might consider averting your eyes or stepping out to the ladies’ room while I do this small task that most parents have had to do since they invented the cloth nappy, and which we have to do roughly 6 or 7 times per day, usually while sleep-deprived.  Have a fucking heart, Bridget Jones?”

PW says:

01:16pm | 02/10/11

Toady: “Great clefts of cleavage ARE much more desirable than deep shadows of bumb crack”.

That depends entirely upon who the owners of said cleavage and bum crack happen to be.

Kaz says:

02:16pm | 02/10/11

Hey St Michael,  you sound like one of those parents who equate parenthood with martyrdom and assumes it means that you’re “entitled’ to do whatever you need - “for the children” of course.
Some of us are getting really fed up with the moral superiority you sprout.
Attending to your child’s toiletting needs in the same space where I and others are eating is just not on.  No matter how sleep deprived you may be or how fast you can get the job done. 
If the eating establishment doesn’t have the facilities to satisfy you then take it up with management or get a babysitter.

LJ Dots says:

03:50pm | 02/10/11

@St Michael. I think you may be onto something.

Nappy changes 6-7 times a day can be punishing and you always need that extra stash of snugglers in the car boot. I find parking in the disabled car parks while out dining can shave seconds off my changeover times. Stuff ‘em.

St. Michael says:

06:19pm | 02/10/11

“Hey St Michael,  you sound like one of those parents who equate parenthood with martyrdom and assumes it means that you’re “entitled’ to do whatever you need - “for the children” of course.
Some of us are getting really fed up with the moral superiority you sprout.”

Diddums.

Although I’d like you to show me where I said I was asserting it as a right for parents to do anything they liked.  You’ll come up wanting.  I’m asking for tolerance on this one, not entitlement.

“Attending to your child’s toiletting needs in the same space where I and others are eating is just not on.  No matter how sleep deprived you may be or how fast you can get the job done.”

No?
Perhaps you’ll be fine with me sitting there and happily watching my child stink to high heaven in his soiled nappy.  Or you’ll perhaps mind the screaming other kids while I go and change the one that is soiled.

“If the eating establishment doesn’t have the facilities to satisfy you then take it up with management or get a babysitter.”

(1) Kind of hard to take it up with the establishment when you’re trying to change a dirty nappy.
(2) Seen how much babysitters cost recently?

Like I said, and which most of the Moral Superiority Brigade seem to have missed: have a fucking heart, Bridget Jones.  It’s not like the woman has been in there every night changing her kids.  Where did you clowns miss the fact that some parents simply don’t have much of a choice, or that they don’t necessarily plan their kids’ bowel movements down to the last moment?

And like I also said, and which you omitted: none of this excuses the women taking the cowards’ way out and not having the guts to confront the woman at the time.  Woohoo, you wrote into the Sunday papers to express your discontent.  Rather less effective communication of your disgust than this handy thing called the mouth and verbal communication.

Vicki PS says:

07:52pm | 02/10/11

St. Michael, you really are as full of it as a baby’s nappy.

I’m a parent, and I’ve been a full-time grandparent carer to my baby grandson.  Let me assure you , it is never necessary to change nappies in a dining area.  Similarly, for certain kinds of outings (like a restaurant dinner) if I couldn’t afford a babysitter I didn’t go.  If I was out with the baby, he or she was in a pram (it’s easy to do a nappy change in an old-fashioned pram).

See, St. Michael, you’ve proven Lainie’s point amply.  Everything you’ve said reeks of an up-you-Jack attitude.  If you’ve had a rough day, or a rough week, that’s sad, but it doesn’t give you an open ticket to flip off the rest of the world.  My advice—stop trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

Kheiron says:

10:58pm | 02/10/11

St Micheal - We should be tolerant because you feel entitled to change nappies where-ever you see fit because parenting is hard. Don’t worry, I understand…

My mother had and raised six kids and my sisters are at the stage where they are pumping them out (I’m up to two nieces and two nephews so far, they’re great until they learn to talk) yet despite the double digit toddler count and the, what must be, four digit nappy changes involved I have not witnessed or so much as heard of any said changes occurring within metres of strangers eating.

And trust me when I say that that’s an exceptional example because I wouldn’t exactly use my sisters as an example for exemplary mothering…man, that’s a lot of ‘ex’ words.
I have, however, seen my sister flop out a nork and stuff it in her kids mouth. I didn’t notice any change in smell and as long as she didn’t spray it in my tea I assume it raised no issue of hygiene…

As for the cowardly third party confrontation method employed in the article…what do you expect?
Since day one we’re taught to be as non-confrontational as possible, every hurt feeling is met with a mob of well meaning morons bursting to tell us how special we are and any time someone seems to have the gall to stand up and speak their mind (or indeed say anything) some knob jockey manages to see it as a violation of the law. Codie Stott is just an example.
Hell, judging by your posts alone if you were the mother in question you’d probably jump up and down if someone had the audacity to question your choice in changing location and given the way things are now that’s just not worth the hassle for anyone.

Anne71 says:

08:16am | 03/10/11

St Michael, you sound like a right grub. A restaurant is no place to change a child’s nappy. If you think it’s okay, that says far more about your standards and breeding than it does about the people who complained.

St. Michael says:

11:08am | 03/10/11

@ Vicki:

“I’m a parent, and I’ve been a full-time grandparent carer to my baby grandson.  Let me assure you , it is never necessary to change nappies in a dining area.  Similarly, for certain kinds of outings (like a restaurant dinner) if I couldn’t afford a babysitter I didn’t go.  If I was out with the baby, he or she was in a pram (it’s easy to do a nappy change in an old-fashioned pram).”

All the arguments of logic in the world and you resort to the Four Yorkshiremen sketch?
Really?

@ Kheiron:

“St Micheal - We should be tolerant because you feel entitled to change nappies where-ever you see fit because parenting is hard. Don’t worry, I understand…”

For the third time: this is not about entitlement.  It’s having enough tolerance for another human being who is clearly having a hard time of it and sees it as necessary to deal with an essential need as soon as possible.  I don’t think you do understand.  At all.

I’ll ignore your highly subjective and autobiographical account since it has no relevance whatsoever.

“As for the cowardly third party confrontation method employed in the article…what do you expect?
Since day one we’re taught to be as non-confrontational as possible, every hurt feeling is met with a mob of well meaning morons bursting to tell us how special we are and any time someone seems to have the gall to stand up and speak their mind (or indeed say anything) some knob jockey manages to see it as a violation of the law.”

Rrrright.

So instead these four ladies decided to go to a different (print media) knob jockey and have him/them see it as a violation of the law instead.

And note the river of bile being presently dumped on me because I chose to stand up and speak my mind, which you impliedly seem to be saying is wrong.

Argument fail.

@ Anne71: You don’t get quotation marks, darling.  As it is, I’d rather be a grub than a sad old starched-white biddy who seems to think the only acceptable way possible to live one’s life is their own.  The reason you’re upset is because I’m right, and it bothers you intensely.

MadKat of Melbourne says:

11:26am | 03/10/11

Kheiron “seen my sister flop out a nork and stuff it in her kids mouth” - now that made me giggle -

Anne71 - I agree, there are no standards here. Near strangers eating food is not a nice place to change a nappy.

Jem says:

12:09pm | 03/10/11

@ St Michael

I disagree with your attitude and I’ve been one of those sleep deprived mothers.

I would never change a nappy in an area where people would eat.  I’d not change a nappy on my dining table, that’s a terrible thing to do.  Plus the floor of a restaurant is hardly the sort of surface you’d want your child lying on anyway.  Hopefully she used a change mat at least.

You make a lot of presumptions about the mother’s circumstances, when as far as you know she could have easily taken her child to the very clean and wonderfully arranged baby change facilities.  It’s just as likely as your scenario.  It’s the reverse of that breastfeeding campaign - the one that goes ‘you don’t eat your meals in a toilet so why should a baby?”  Well people don’t go to the toilet in a dining room, so why should a baby?

The onus isn’t on customers to be more tolerant of that sort of thing.  The parents know they will need to change their child while they are out, they should ensure the place they are going has baby changing facilites, you ask when you make the reservation.  If they have extra children, then they should have a plan to deal with that.  Changing the child in your vehicle would be preferable to the floor of a restaurant.  Saying she was sleep deprived and had no help isn’t valid - she knew that before she walked into the restaurant.

Anne71 says:

12:59pm | 03/10/11

Well said, Jem. It’s a bit arrogant of St Michael to just assume that all mothers will agree that there’s nothing wrong with changing a nappy near people who are trying to eat.  Unlike him, it seems, you have standards.
You know, society is far more “baby-friendly” than whiners like St Michael like to believe. In any case, it is far more baby-friendly than our grandmother’s, or even mother’s time. After all,  back then very few, if any, places had special facilities for nappy-changing or feeding.  But you didn’t see women just flopping out the whole boob wherever and whenever they felt like it, without even an attempt at discretion.  If they did have to feed in public, they covered up with a scarf.  And you most definitely didn’t see them changing a dirty nappy in the middle of a restaurant.
Yes, perhaps both of these actions are natural, but so are urination, defecation and copulation, however none of those are acceptable in public. Well, not by decent people, anyway.

Peter says:

01:29pm | 03/10/11

Er, can we all agree that:

(a) St Michael is correct in that the 4 “friends” should have talked to the parent in question rather than call the media - not really that big a deal, was it?

(b) that people don’t change nappies in restaurants very often so it is probably a bit of a one-off so no need get into a hissy fit over it; and

(c) let’s have a little respect of other people.  So try not to change dirty nappies in restaurants and, also, try not to call parents names or call the media if they do something you don’t like once in a while.

Sheesh.

St. Michael says:

01:52pm | 03/10/11

@ Peter:

Well said—but prepare to reap the whirlwind you have just sown from the Diners’ Moral Superiority Brigade.

@ Jem:

“I would never change a nappy in an area where people would eat.  I’d not change a nappy on my dining table, that’s a terrible thing to do.  Plus the floor of a restaurant is hardly the sort of surface you’d want your child lying on anyway.  Hopefully she used a change mat at least.

You make a lot of presumptions about the mother’s circumstances, when as far as you know she could have easily taken her child to the very clean and wonderfully arranged baby change facilities.”

As do you.  Which is why it probably would’ve been nice if the four friends had talked to the mother about it first rather than bleating their Inspector Louis “shocked, shocked” attitudes to a newspaper.

Are any of you getting the point yet?  Your responses don’t seem to bear it out.

Kyzz says:

02:19pm | 03/10/11

St Michael, Yes they should have said something to the mother or to the restaurant staff at least and I understand you are not condoning what the woman did.

It’s still unacceptable and unhygienic regardless of the mother’s reasons.

mah says:

03:10pm | 03/10/11

Jem “should ensure the place they are going has baby changing facilites”

Most of the time the boot of the car is much cleaner than most change facilities. I can be pretty certain a dodgy bugger having a vindalou for dinner hasn’t sprayed it around the boot.

It is still pretty rare to have baby change facilities in the male toilets, but I wouldn’t stoop to changing my kids in the middle of a restaurant. It wouldn’t put me off my food having a baby changed nearby, but that isn’t the point.

St Michael - I can understand your point, but how often do you go to a non-kids restaurant with just you and anklebiters that are not old enough to look after themselves for the 5 min to duck somewhere quiet and change bubs?

Anne71 says:

05:09pm | 03/10/11

St Michael - I don’t get quotation marks, but you sure do. ” As it is, I’d rather be a grub than a sad old starched-white biddy who seems to think the only acceptable way possible to live one’s life is their own.  The reason you’re upset is because I’m right, and it bothers you intensely.”
Well, the fact that you’ve descended to name-calling and petty insults would suggest that it is, in fact, YOU that is upset, not me. 
As for being bothered, I shall revert to a quote from Churchill to answer that charge: “Mind over matter. I don’t mind, and you don’t matter.”

St. Michael says:

06:09pm | 03/10/11

@ Anne71:

“Well, the fact that you’ve descended to name-calling and petty insults would suggest that it is, in fact, YOU that is upset, not me.”

lol.  You called me a grub first, you silly woman.  And I craft my insults, they’re never petty.

“As for being bothered, I shall revert to a quote from Churchill to answer that charge: “Mind over matter. I don’t mind, and you don’t matter.””

Churchill also said “The best argument against democracy is five minutes’ conversation with the average voter”.

You do vote, don’t you?

L. says:

09:39am | 02/10/11

Mikk says:

“Unions, mutual and collective banking and lending, families, community sports, fairs, markets, rural support, the local police, all the services we now cant get, the milko, the breadman etc etc. All lost in an insane drive to replace centuries of civilising and progressive reform with the single worst trait that humanity possesses. GREED!

What utter BS.

Unions….still exist.

Families…still exist

Community sports clubs…still exist

Fairs…stll exist.

Rual support…yep, still there.

As for the milko and bread services…ummm, so..??

Mutual and collective banking… actually, yes, they still exist.

Local Police..?? I have 3, yes 3 police stations, each within 8 Km.

marley says:

12:09pm | 02/10/11

This sort of behaviour is not limited to “bogans.”

Vicki PS says:

07:58pm | 02/10/11

Definitely not bogan behaviour.  Your average bogan may be antisocial in other ways, but usually knows—and uses—reasonable manners.

Truly appalling rudeness seems to be the province of the upper middles, like the well-dressed BMW-driving woman I saw the other day, haggling with the owner of a PYO strawberry farm about paying $5 dollars a kilo for jam berries!

bec says:

06:14pm | 02/10/11

No. My moron neighbours do the same thing, and many others, such as:

1. Revving the engine on their riced-up Civic for up to five minutes whenever they want to head out at 5am in the morning (despite neither of them having jobs);
2. Conducting shouted conversations at 2am right on the boundary line of our property; and
3. Inflicting their shite music on us at all hours of the day and night (parties every night - apparently, there are people who *will* be friends with losers with crap cars, no jobs and terrible taste in music, though I suspect like attracts like).

By all rights you shouldn’t be able to hear anything from the boundary line. We’ve had to call the police every single night for the past three weeks because the volume of the music means they can be heard from seven houses away. They still haven’t learned.

We own our property, they don’t. Our lives are hell.

Danny B says:

09:30am | 03/10/11

Speaking of which, what about those people who drive past with the windows open and stereos thumping?  If they like that ‘music’, good for them, but they don’t have the right to inflict it on everyone else.

marley says:

10:21am | 03/10/11

@DannyB - I’ve always associated that with people trying to attract attention - look at me, and how cool I am - except of course it usually just shows what lousy taste they have in music, and how deaf they’re going to be by the age of 40.

BTK says:

11:07am | 03/10/11

@DannyB - it’s the only way to sing to the music, really for me I can’t sing in tune but doesn’t stop me belting out a few or more than a few songs on my way, as long as it’s before 10pm I can have my music in my car as loud as I want, after 10 I have it at a reasonable level

Danny B says:

11:37am | 03/10/11

BTK,

Just one question - do you wind your windows down or keep them up?

Kika says:

01:01pm | 03/10/11

Bec renters have rights too - even if you own the land doesn’t mean your renting neighbours don’t have rights either. However your neighbours do sound like absolutely knobs.  Try to find their real estate maybe and tell them?

BTK says:

03:44pm | 03/10/11

@DannyB - I have the windows of my car firmly closed

Sickemrex says:

04:54pm | 03/10/11

@ bec you have my sympathy.

We have been at our current address for nearly 2 years and I or my husband have asked particular neighbours to turn their music down about 6 times in those 2 years.  Down, not off.  Considering they are constantly renovating (I think it’s renovating, it involves a lot of banging anyway), revving engines, riding motorbikes up and down the driveway and pumping their stereo, I don’t think 6 times is much.

The shitty thing about loud music is that you have no choice about listening to it.  Sure, same goes for traffic and airport sounds but at least you can do your research before you buy a place.  You just have zero choice if you have neighbours who don’t give a rat’s arse about what you might be doing in the privacy of your own home.

I suppose I should get on topic at some point.  No, I wouldn’t change a nappy on the floor of a restaurant for the same reasons I don’t pump music to the extent my neighbours can hear it in their loungerooms, it’s inconsiderate and unecessary.

Danny B says:

09:00am | 04/10/11

BTK,

Then I’m not complaining about you.  I’m talking about those with the music loud and windows down - who do nothing to stop disturbing other people.

Kika says:

12:58pm | 03/10/11

Not in QLD, thank God. We haven’t gone down that road yet and I hope to never see the day.

meh says:

03:26pm | 03/10/11

Kika - you don’t know what you’re missing. With close firends a nice grope is on the table, just be careful of you mates grandma - she usually doesn’t want to let go.

LJ Dots says:

06:25pm | 03/10/11

@LK - I’m ok with multiculturalism aspect and the double cheek kiss.

However, it’s when one zigs, while the other zags resulting in a full frontal, non-orchestrated, non-marital nor familial total kiss on the lips that can be a little confronting.

Kika says:

04:21pm | 03/10/11

What about when I am standing at the lights first and a smoker comes up and decides that I want to share in smoking with them? Who is at fault in that situation?

BTK says:

07:26am | 04/10/11

It’s still outside Kika, the non smokers don’t own the air and we are allowed to smoke outside, I don’t smoke when I am walking anywhere, I smoke in designated smoking zones and in my car, and before you call me to account for tossing butts out the window I have a bottle of water that I use to put the butts out in so I don’t litter

Peter says:

01:55pm | 03/10/11

Just wondering if your parents are morons and were paid to have you as well?

Kika says:

04:10pm | 03/10/11

Hey Peter - you must be one of those parents. Well done. Well done to you for breeding. Do you want an award?  Are you daft? Did I say the kids were morons? No. Do I sound like I am young enough to have been born in the days of the baby bonus and paid maternity leave? No. Case in point.