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Filed under: Casinos, Ethics, Friday Dilemma, Honesty

68 comments

A 22 year refrigeration mechanic walks into a casino… and what happens next defies belief. (You can read all about it here.)

The legal system did this guy over for pocketing $200 he found at Burswood casino. Pic: Richard Polden.

First, he finds $200 bucks on the floor. This in itself is remarkable. Have you ever been to a casino? There are starving seagulls who swoop on chips slower than gamblers dive for loose cash in one of those hell-holes.

Anyway, the guys picks up the cash and before he knows it he’s in a holding cell for three hours. Next thing he knows, a magistrate slaps him with a $500 fine, plus court costs.

So before we throw this thing over to you, here’s what the three Punchies who bothered to show up at the office today have to say.

Ant says: the legal system is a giant Kyle Sandilands-sized ass
I cannot believe this. In my misguided youth I spent more than my fair share of time in casinos, and to find money on the floor is every gambler’s dream.

These places exist to fleece you. It starts in the car park, continues through the cloak room and bars and keeps going right up the gaming floor.

If someone drops a bit of cash on the floor, well, they were likely going to drop it down the slot on one of the casino tables anyway, so it’s finders keepers, surely.

The bigger issue here is that the ethics, as we know them, do not exist inside the four walls of a casino. Otherwise casinos themselves would surely not exist. Let me illustrate this by way of example.

I once got paid several times by a young Blackjack dealer for bets which I had lost. The trick is, when you bust, you put the stake for the next hand in your box. While the dealer pays out the winning hands, they may absent-mindedly pay your stake. Believe me, this can happen.

Why do I feel so comfortable encouraging naughtiness? Because the house odds are ridiculously stacked against you. You will lose in the long run and short of pick-pocketing, whatever it takes to get ahead is perfectly acceptable.

Money on the floor outside a post office or bank? Take it in and do the honest thing. Money on a casino floor? It’s yours, baby, all yours. Or at least it should be.

Lucy says: stealing is stealing, no ifs, no buts
Look at that cheeky face - of course he’s guilty! And with that in mind he deserves every dollar of that $500 fine. That or 100 hours of community service.

Everyone knows this test - it’s called the integrity test. Like Adam, Eve and the apple. Keeping money that’s not yours is the ultimate in low-level anti-social activity and the best indication of a person’s character.

So pay up Lamonica-Miraglio and wipe that smile off your face.

Our awesome new guy Daniel Piotrowski says: it’s chicken feed, let him go
Give him a break. This guy’s an apprentice fridge mechanic.

Chances are he’s not going to get his hands on $200 for a bloody looooooooong time, especially if he’s pissing away his money at the casino. Just imagine how much dosh the Burswood Casino cleaning staff vacuum off the floor every day.

You say?

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68 comments

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- atthepub says:
  
  01:05pm | 05/08/11
  
  Doesn’t say anywhere that he was actually given a fair chance to find the owner of the money. What if he was just finishing his drink intending to find the owner afterwards. He said “I hadn’t decided to do anything with it.” That’s not an admission of guilt, that’s someone who may take a little while before he does the right thing. Was he given that chance to do the right thing? He may have handed it to reception on his way out. Is waiting a crime? Is there a law that says that the moment you find something it needs to be handed over? He handed it over didn’t he?
  
  Reply
- Malleeringneck says:
  
  01:09pm | 05/08/11
  
  So what was he charged with?
  Robbery!
  
  Reply
iansand says:

01:51pm | 05/08/11

Larceny by finding
Coop says:

05:12pm | 05/08/11

Id like to know if the Casino returned the money to the original owner
Gregg says:

09:49am | 06/08/11

@Coop
You’ll find yes, one way or another if you read the linked article and somewhat surprisingly so.
- Shane* says:
  
  01:09pm | 05/08/11
  
  “Excuse me, I found a pretty significant amount of money on the ground just now. If you’ve lost any money in the last few minutes, and the amounts and note quantities match, I’ll be happy to give you back your money.”
  
  Reply
- Rose says:
  
  01:16pm | 05/08/11
  
  He knew the money wasn’t his and kept it, that’s theft.Just because the theft occurred inside a casino doesn’t make the thief any less guilty.
  
  Reply
julie says:

02:55pm | 05/08/11

who would he give it back to? where would he hand it in?
sometimes life just gives you a reward for being at the right place at the right time.
Austin 3:16 says:

06:27pm | 05/08/11

Hey Julie,

Did you miss the bit about the arrest, prosecution and criminal conviction / fine ? Is that your idea of “reward” ?
MK says:

06:45pm | 05/08/11

It comes down to a reasonable effort to return to it’s rightful owner if practicable. In this case it was highly lickley the owner was still in the room, his effort was Zero. This is below reasonable.
Yes it would be a hassle to see security, spend 15 minutes filling out a form.

If you found $200 on an empty street, where there the person who lost it is nowhere around,
There is no security cameras
and it is unlikely they would know what area they lost it, without a wallet or any distinguishing feature, chance of finding the owner is lower.

If you see someone drop money, then obviously you should give ti back to them, if there was one person in vicinity, didnt see them drop it,
ask if they have lost any (of which they should then know amount, notage)
Kipling says:

12:29pm | 06/08/11

The life time ban would appear to be the best reward and well worth the $500 payout.
- Tim says:
  
  01:21pm | 05/08/11
  
  If he found the money randomly then I’d say keep it.
  But he saw the guy drop the money and then hid it under his foot and pocketed it.
  Definitely dodgy.
  
  Reply
atthepub says:

01:59pm | 05/08/11

News report says “he did not see it fall out of anybody’s pockets”
Jane says:

02:58pm | 05/08/11

This is what i was thinking. With teh amount of camera survellience at the casino they probably saw him see the person who dropped the money, look around cheekily and pocket it. The question is did Crown return it to the rightful owner?
Tim says:

03:01pm | 05/08/11

No,
his defence says he did not see it fall out of anyone’s pocket.
CCTV evidence shows different.
fml says:

04:06pm | 05/08/11

It was at burswood casino, not crown.

Do people read the article anymore?
- Elphaba says:
  
  01:23pm | 05/08/11
  
  He found $200, not $20 000.
  
  If he saw someone drop it and didn’t try to give it back to them, fair enough, I would say that was a bit low. But if he found it left alone on the floor, I say keep it.
  
  Arem’t there more pressing things our courts should be occupied with?
  
  Reply
- JC says:
  
  01:23pm | 05/08/11
  
  Do you really think that if he handed the money in the casino would look for the rightful owner?
  
  I’d like to point out that the guy gave the money back when asked and then was given a life ban, one time at Burswood the casino only gave me half of my winnings in roulette, I asked if they could give me the rest, it took about an hour for them to go through security footage and finally they found I was correct and gave me my money with a half-hearted “sorry”, so in a way Burswood deserves a life ban from itself.
  
  Reply
- Geoff - Brisbane says:
  
  01:24pm | 05/08/11
  
  Wonder if getting dragged before the courts would have happened to a pretty young (hehe i found it, im sooooorreeee) girl?
  
  I doubt it. A win for femquality.
  
  Reply
Rose says:

01:34pm | 05/08/11

What a ridiculous comment, pure speculation based on no evidence at all. The only evidence in this case is that this young guy took $200 that he knew didn’t belong to him and has now, rightfully, been held to account!
MarK says:

01:57pm | 05/08/11

awesome

/popcorn
Shane* says:

02:06pm | 05/08/11

Good point, Geoff. I’d say probably not. After all, if you believe the media, any bloke between 15-30 is either comically stupid, a dangerous thug, a petty criminal or completely sex-crazed.

I’d say if the security guards had found a 20 year old girl with the cash, they’d joke, flirt, and let her walk away.
Kirsty says:

02:24pm | 05/08/11

@ Geoff, I wondered this as well. To be honest I don’t think the cops would have been called if it was a 22 yr old girl they just would have got the money back and given it to the guy who rightfully owned it, if that.
Geoff - Brisbane says:

02:52pm | 05/08/11

Rose, there is no evidence because a young girl has never been (and will never be) dragged before the courts for something this petty.

It was on the ground. How would you react if the next time you found money on the ground, (and didn’t initiate an Interpol style search for the owner) you were arrested and dragged before the court? Do you really think it is fair?
gobsmack says:

03:53pm | 05/08/11

What a dumb comment.
1. A young girl didn’t find the money.
2. What would happen if she did is pure speculation.
A bit silly to get outraged by figments of your imagination.
- ShamWow says:
  
  01:32pm | 05/08/11
  
  If he had handed it to someone who worked at the casino would they have tried to find the owner? hahaha, all good - don’t bother answering.
  
  Reply
- gobsmack says:
  
  01:33pm | 05/08/11
  
  Apparently there was video footage showing that he had observed the owner of the money drop the money, hid the money with his foot and then pocketed the money.
  Something that interested me was that he was placed in a holding cell at the casino for three hours. I had no idea casinos are built with their own dungeons.
  
  Reply
Tim says:

02:06pm | 05/08/11

Haven’t you ever watched a Casino movie?
This is where they take the gamblers who get caught cheating or counting cards for their obligatory phone book beatings
Matt says:

02:15pm | 05/08/11

The entire casino is a dungeon
Mankind says:

03:25pm | 05/08/11

The SCG has holding cells as well. It’s a better solution than having someone who’s broken the law being held on too by bouncers until the police arrive.
tommy says:

05:19pm | 05/08/11

I wonder if there was a pocker machine in the holding cell, take advantage of every opportunity
- js says:
  
  01:35pm | 05/08/11
  
  finders keepers, losers weepers. The law is clear on this.
  
  Reply
Rose says:

02:16pm | 05/08/11

Apparently not,and it seems like a lot of people need to learn this lesson. If you know it’s not yours keeping it is a crime!
js says:

04:29pm | 05/08/11

rose seems to have lost her sense of humour. if anyone finds it, please return it as apparently “keeping it is a crime”
- TheRealDave says:
  
  01:36pm | 05/08/11
  
  The second it hits the floor its fair game. If you see someone drop it, give it back. If its just lying there then bad luck. If he did hand it in to the casino do you honestly think they would have bothered trying to find the owner? Of course bloody not.
  
  Most retarded thing I have heard all week…well…after Turdballs’s ‘Fraudband’ Plan that is….
  
  Reply
MK says:

06:57pm | 05/08/11

Its only fair game while still in the air
then
one hand one bounce rule

If you dont put fair effort in for a specaular diving catch
then you need to put fair effort in returning it to rightul owner
- Al Chunk says:
  
  02:10pm | 05/08/11
  
  He willingly entered the casino to have his hard earned cash taken off him. The judge was merely being kind and made the legal process a bit more enjoyable, for the lad, by having the court take some more money off him.
  
  Reply
- DJ says:
  
  02:25pm | 05/08/11
  
  What the hell does a casino have a “holding cell” for anyway? Do those no necked goons with the curly earpieces actually have the power to imprison people now? Unbelievable…
  
  Reply
Jane2 says:

03:02pm | 05/08/11

I used to work at that casino, trust me on teh over night shifts of a weekend they need it, especially since its ilegal to knock people out while you wait till the police arrive.
- sneakers says:
  
  02:43pm | 05/08/11
  
  From the story : He said he made no attempt to spend the money and handed it over when he was approached by casino security staff.
  
  I’m sure if he walked straight up to a blackjack table and sat down, he’d be fine. Getting free money from a casino is a no-no.
  
  I’ve been followed around a casino after an hour of just walking around and looking ..
  
  Reply
- Louisa says:
  
  03:13pm | 05/08/11
  
  So would the same apply if he had found a 5 cent piece on the floor?
  
  Reply
Austin 3:16 says:

06:43pm | 05/08/11

Sure, like punching a friend on the arm is that same as seriously assaulting them
Louisa says:

07:32pm | 05/08/11

Austin

Money is money - no matter what the amount
Austin 3:16 says:

12:51pm | 06/08/11

Well in that case can I borrow a million and give you back a fiver ? Then we can call it quits.
- Mankind says:
  
  03:27pm | 05/08/11
  
  He knew the money wasn’t his. He saw the person drop it. Therefore he stole so he deserves everything he got.
  
  Also what happens if you drop money on the floor and someone dives on it and say it’s mine tough luck? This is how brawls start. Zero tolerance to thieves is a good policy IMO.
  
  Reply
- lesley laurel says:
  
  03:50pm | 05/08/11
  
  Your comment:the stock exchange is the place to lose money today and not the casino.
  
  Reply
- Phil says:
  
  04:00pm | 05/08/11
  
  He didnt leave the casino building so whats to say he wasnt going to hand it in on his way out or when he had left the bar?
  His first thoughts or reactions might not have been a quest to go find someone to hand it in to.
  At what point does it become theft? especially if you dont know the owner and obviously didnt take it out of his pocket yourself?
  I doubt the security guards would be that honest.
  
  Reply
Gregg says:

10:05am | 06/08/11

@Phil,
At what point does it become theft?
With a name like Lamonica - Miraglio and a mafioso look suit
- Kate says:
  
  04:15pm | 05/08/11
  
  If you see someone drop it and don’t make an effort to give it back then yes, that’s a dick move. If it’s just lying there? Fair game.
  
  Reply
- Knemon says:
  
  04:28pm | 05/08/11
  
  Hey Ant,
  
  “I once got paid several times by a young Blackjack dealer for bets which I had lost”
  
  Thanks for the tip…I’m off to my local casino to give it a run.
  
  Reply
Anthony Sharwood says:

07:19pm | 05/08/11

It works, i swear it does. Find a rookie dealer, and get that money out there every time you bust
Dave says:

10:21pm | 05/08/11

@ Sharwood - I never thought you could sink lower in my estimation of you but you have.

If you knowingly, wrongly accept payment for a wager which didn’t actually win, then you should be charged with theft, because that’s what it is. You might as well reach into a shop’s cash register and take out a $20 bill just because the person working there wasn’t paying enough attention to stop you.

As for your attitude that it’s ok to seek out new employees and exploit their lack of experience to your benefit, I am so offended by your selfishness. Don’t you understand (or care) that these people will be dragged over the coals by their managers for these mistakes, which you brazenly hope for and gleefully accept.

Time to grow up, pal.
malohi says:

11:43am | 06/08/11

Fraud, not theft. Unless you count the chip as a chose in action, even then it was freely given and analogous to money so property would likely have passed.
The real fraud would be cashing in the chip though.
Oh sorry, I forgot, trivial things like the law have nothing to do with this thread…

What I meant to say was the law is an ass, finders keepers hurr durr
- nossy says:
  
  05:31pm | 05/08/11
  
  Good luck to the poor bugger! Its hard enough to win at any Casino - I play Jupiters on the Gold Coast at least once a week and am about minus $50k so far! hahahahaha
  
  Reply
- DougB says:
  
  06:22pm | 05/08/11
  
  The person who lost this money went straight to the Casino staff and reported that he had lost it. (They did, as I understand it, refund the owner). They then looked on their security vision and identified what happened.
  
  This apprentice should have done the same thing. That is, gone straight to the Casino staff and reported he found it. If he pocketed the money and went to get a drink and wait, I would be willing to bet that he was waiting to see if anyone noticed it and if not, then he would keep it, and if they did claim it then he was hoping he could just hand it over untouched and say “yeah I was going to hand it in”.
  He took money that wasn’t lawfully his. That is illegal.
  
  Reply
- Stefano of Manly says:
  
  06:53pm | 05/08/11
  
  Hey there, Ant
  
  Quote : “Because the house odds are ridiculously stacked against you”
  
  Do some fair dinkum research.
  
  If you play a sensible basic strategy at the Blackjack tables, you have about a 2% edge against you, about 2.7% at the roulette tables, less on the craps table. Don’t play the pokies anywhere ever. If you buy a lotto or lottery ticket or scratchie or bet at the TAB, you really are being ripped off, much more than the traditional casino games.
  
  Reply
Tim says:

12:46pm | 06/08/11

Yeah but at least you can do form on horse races.
- andye says:
  
  07:30pm | 05/08/11
  
  I have found a purse with some cash in not long ago. Picked it up, continued on my merry way to work, and found the person on Facebook. Handed it back that afternoon, with all the cash in it.
  
  At the time I probably could have used some extra cash. I don’t think I could live with myself if I wasn’t honest, though. The cash would last a short while, but I would then be a thief forever.
  
  Reply
- stephen says:
  
  10:33pm | 05/08/11
  
  The reason why this chap was able to find 200 bucks on the floor is because anyone else in the casino would have had too much money to bend down and bother to pick it up.
  Good luck to him, and can I do the sentencing Judge’s tax return ?
  
  Reply
- NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:
  
  11:30pm | 05/08/11
  
  Hi Punch Team,
  
  Lucky for this guy that he was not living in one of the Saudi Arabian countries, because of the fact that he might have lost an arm for stealing, only joking! !! Then again gambling is forbidden in such countries, I am only guessing!!
  
  He only found the money on the floor and I believe he was spotted only because of all those surveillance cameras!! How about catching up with real criminals & leave this poor guy alone?? It just seems ridiculous to say the least!! Those people running the casino, I wonder if they do not have any thing better to do with their time??
  
  Taking lessons in morality from the most trust worthy people in the business, right ?? Best regards to your editors.
  
  Reply
stephen says:

05:19pm | 06/08/11

Friday, and the Editors would be drunk, but casinos are very much supervized by gaming authorities and it may have been that on the video survellience the Mananger may have felt it was necessary to detain the chap.
Still and all, the Judge might have been a bit more observant of why anyone would have been in the place in the first place : to make money.
- Gregg says:
  
  10:16am | 06/08/11
  
  Ant,
  It has taken a while for the main feature of this article to be revealed and you have been called on it
  ” I once got paid several times by a young Blackjack dealer for bets which I had lost. The trick is, when you bust, you put the stake for the next hand in your box. While the dealer pays out the winning hands, they may absent-mindedly pay your stake. Believe me, this can happen.
  
  Why do I feel so comfortable encouraging naughtiness? Because the house odds are ridiculously stacked against you. You will lose in the long run and short of pick-pocketing, whatever it takes to get ahead is perfectly acceptable. “
  
  That is admission of a far more serious crime that you should rightly be admonished for and then to even follow up with a ” Do it ” approach I would have thought is somewhat bordering on very bad ethics.
  
  The odds are the odds and it is up to a gambler whether they want to attempt to take them on wherever gambling.
  
  I doubt you have been to confessional on this of late or even layed prostrate but remember that pen and your laptop cracked screen!
  Even a four year old can bring karma if not justice.
  
  We all do things that we may later reflect on and may regret and you have erred twice [ at least ]
  . being a crook and deliberately so
  . urging others to be crooked
  It’ll remain to be seen how your conscience deals with it.
  
  Reply
Anthony Sharwood says:

10:36am | 06/08/11

Gregg, as you’ll see from mt CV I’ve spent a fair bit of time working in the gambling industry. Never been much of a punter myself and when I do I’m small time $10 punter.

I guess there’s a bit of cockiness in that stuff I wrote but I really believe there is a kind of parallel moral universe in gambling venues. I’d like to think that ethos doesn’t prevail in any other aspect of my life, but I guess the question is worth debating
Gregg says:

12:03pm | 06/08/11

Ant,
How well does being a small time $10 punter match with
” I once got paid several times by a young Blackjack dealer for bets which I had lost. The trick is, when you bust, you put the stake for the next hand in your box. “
Like it ain’t exactly going to make for seamless reading of a chapter.

I extend myself a bit further to be an about $50 Melbourne Cup day punter, usually having a look at the form and using a basic well publicised system of boxing up horses of a particular age from lead up races form and sometimes it works.

Worked so well last year I got the trifecta with a box of five horses but that way you only get about 30% of win and instead of a trifecta being its usual several thousand, it was just all of $300 damm it but then $100 was still better than a kick in the teeth.

And then of course there are the roulette systems which will increase the chances of success for the those prepared to put in disciplined hours.
Alternately, it may just be a bigger hole you dig for yourself unless you have a loss limit.
- Blind Freddy says:
  
  11:19am | 06/08/11
  
  By losing the money on the floor its rightful owner was spared losing it on the tables.
  
  Reply
- decko says:
  
  11:54am | 06/08/11
  
  he’s obviously guilty, he’s wearing one of those suits with too many buttons
  
  Reply
- Jeff says:
  
  06:25pm | 06/08/11
  
  It doesn’t sound like any of your Punchies or commenters saw the security footage that was shown to the court - it was shown on Perth TV last week. Although it looks as though the young guy did not see the bloke who dropped the money, however the first note was about 30cm behind a guy at the bar (really close). The young bloke stepped out of the circle he was in and put his foot on the note and slid it towards himself and shuffled back into the circle of mates. He glanced back and saw another bill and did the same,
  The guy left the bar and as he was leaving the young guy quickly glanced over his shoulder at him and then, as though he had been waiting for him to leave, the young guy bent down and picked up the bills he had kept under his foot.
  I think the footage shows he may not have seen who dropped the money but he had a very good idea, or at least suspected it was the guy at the bar.
  Since then at least two stories have emerged of people picking up money in the Burswood casino, handing it in, having their details taken and then receiving a call a few weeks later to say “come and pick up the money, it has not been claimed”.
  this young guy deserved the fine.
  
  Reply
Sceptic says:

01:31am | 07/08/11

@Jeff

This is The Punch, open theft and criminal acitvity are openly encouraged by it’s journalists. I wonder if Rupert would endorse such views?

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Friday dilemma: Is cash on a casino floor fair gaming?

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68 comments

atthepub says:

Malleeringneck says:

iansand says:

Coop says:

Gregg says:

Shane* says:

Rose says:

julie says:

Austin 3:16 says:

MK says: