Enjoy your porterhouse, but consider the slaughterhouse

Emma says:

05:36am | 15/02/12

I am no vegetarian either but saying “just because we always did it like this” is not really an argument.

And the author doesnt really want you to eat sprouts instead but to be aware of how the meat gets on your table. I think that is a fair call.

Tyr says:

05:41am | 15/02/12

What he said.

Also, does alfalfa feel pain when it’s cruelly ripped from its natural habitat for your eating pleasure? No? How do you know? It’s a living thing too, you know.

Bill says:

06:16am | 15/02/12

Emma, don’t talk down to me - I know how meat gets to my table. Pretty much the same way it’s been done for thousands of years.

Kipling says:

06:20am | 15/02/12

Well stated Emma, the point is far too easily missed if it means we may need to seriously consider making changes to what we “like” to do.

Tyr, another silly argument actually. Everything we eat is, or rather was, a living thing, it is how the overall system works, the point, you know that which you eagerly avoided taking on board, is about being ethical in how we procure what we eat. In a sense of course, “:cruelly ripping the alphalpha from its natural habitat” does deserve some ethical consideration. Perhaps gently scooping it out and giving it a tepid bath to wash away remnant dirt particles would be more ethical. Of course, we live in a dollar driven world, so do you really think the time would be taken on alphalpha, when it is clearly evident that most don’t give a toss about the welfare of an animal they are about to eat, as long as they don’t know how it dies that seems ok to not think about….

Clearly (back to Emma) “fair calls” are irrelevant to the ignorant masses who want their personal comforts first and foremost regardless of the implications for any and all other living things….

M says:

06:21am | 15/02/12

Well Tyr, to the best of my knowledge Alfalfa plants lack a nervous system, so it’d be pretty safe to say it can’t feel anything.

I’m not going to give up meat, but I’m all for buying certified free range or organic meat.

Emma says:

06:25am | 15/02/12

Bill

I dont think they had factories thousands of years ago.

Would you support improvement of the conditions in those factories?

Tyr says:

06:58am | 15/02/12

Kipling, my family has a farm near Yass. Was down there two weeks ago to pick up some fresh lamb. Got to help out with the gutting and trimming of the carcasses too. I fully understand where my meat comes from, beef included. I have no issue with it. As others have said, we’re top of the food chain, baby. Enjoy it.

And yes, I’d support more humane methods than mass kill rooms in slaughterhouses. But only cause I think the beef would taste better!

Either way, the animal will be killed and make it into my belly.

Do you have a problem with Aboriginies spearing dugongs multiple times? (it’s delicious FYI)

Gravelly says:

06:58am | 15/02/12

“I’m all for buying certified free range or organic meat”.

As a reasonably large scale beef producer of some 40 years standing, may I humbly suggest/inform that the words “certified free range or organic meat” mean absolutely nothing!

One of the greatest cons of all time! Still, if the mug punters want to pay more for the standard product, I’ll take their money! Pays the leases on the Merc and Sahara quite nicely!

Thirsty says:

07:03am | 15/02/12

@M
If plants dont have nervous systems, hence, arent “really” living in an animal sense, why are people called murderers when trees are felled?
If all animal production was stopped, which is the aim of PETA, how would we live? How on earth would we consume enough protein to survive?

Mike says:

07:11am | 15/02/12

Tyr is right, just because you can’t prove it yet with what may be limited science, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

If meat is so bad, then why do emerging countries like India and China want to be more Western and eat meat, if they’re so damn healthy with their currently, largely vegetable diet ?  If you don’t eat meat, you eat ?...vegetables ! (Correct).

Doesn’t do crocodiles, lions or tigers any harm either, but I guess they don’t eat the ‘unhealthy’ packaged meat, eh ?

M says:

07:13am | 15/02/12

@ kipling, ethical treatment of plants? Are you for real, or did you misjudge the dosage this morning?

Bill says:

07:17am | 15/02/12

Emma - another stupid comment.

I never implied that factories existed thousands of years ago. My point was that animals have ALWAYS been killed for human consumption. We didn’t evolve and have our brain capacity increase from eating plants. We exist to eat meat. FACT. And I will continue to eat meat and feed it to my kids despite some tree hugger having a hissy fit.

M says:

07:31am | 15/02/12

@ Thirsty, where did I say that plants aren’t living? I said they can’t feel pain. You know, cause they lack a nervous system and a brain for detecting and interpreting pain like animals do?

@Mike, can’t prove they don’t feel pain with our limited science? Hello? They lack a nervous system. Score one for limited science.

Geez, where do these greenie hippies come from, universities? Ethical treatment for plants has got to be the funniest thing I’ve heard all week.

@ Gravelly, I know that some producers con the public with their organic/free range thing, but some don’t. I’d be happy to pay more if a product was australian made/grown or if an independant body could guarantee that the ethical sticker on my box of eggs actually meant that the farm where they are produced actually practices what it preaches in reagards to the keeping of chickens.

Emma says:

07:34am | 15/02/12

Bill

Maybe we can do this without insults please.

I dont want you to stop eating meat. I eat meat, too. I just say we should take responsibility and be aware of how it is produced. And as we have the means to make the process better for the animal involved, we should.

Tubesteak says:

07:38am | 15/02/12

Meat is murder!

Delicious murder.

You don’t win friends with salad! You don’t win friends with salad! You don’t win friends with salad!

MarkS says:

07:40am | 15/02/12

I am aware of how the meat gets on my table and I do not care.

Bill says:

07:57am | 15/02/12

Emma - you started the insults with the cheap shot claim that “I dont think they had factories thousands of years ago”.

If you ever start respecting others here, then we’ll start respecting you.

Tyr says:

08:01am | 15/02/12

You’re on fire, Tubesteak!

And I quote:

  Jimmy: I have this crazy friend who says it’s wrong to eat meat. Is he crazy?

  Troy McClure: [laughing] No, Jimmy, just ignorant. You see, your crazy friend hasn’t heard of the food chain. Just ask this scientitian.

  Scientist: Uhhh…

  Troy McClure: He’ll tell you that one creature invariably eats another to survive. Don’t kid yourself, Jimmy. If a cow got the chance he’d eat you and everyone you care about.

  Jimmy: Wow, Mr. McClure, I was a Grade A Moron to ever question eating meat.

  Troy McClure: Yes you were, Jimmy. Yes you were. [playfully rubs Jimmy’s head]

  Jimmy: You’re hurting me…

HappyCynic says:

08:55am | 15/02/12

@Bill

Humans also used to kill their meat before eating it.  Factory farms are a fairly recent addition to human history.  When was the last time you killed your food first before preparing it to be cooked?

For me it’s been a long time, I don’t live on a farm any more, but I still remember running the knife through a chicken’s throat and feeling the warm blood splash out over my hands while the chicken twitched its final death throes his eyes slowly faded and it’s not something you ever forget.  I also remember the strange satisfaction of eating something I’d personally killed.

Until you’ve killed your first chicken or slaughtered your first steak I think you shouldn’t be able to defend a meat-eating diet over a vegetarian one.  You simply don’t have the full experience and certainly don’t deserve to eat meat.

TJ says:

09:16am | 15/02/12

@HappyCynic - stop it you’re making me hungry

Dieter Moeckel says:

09:26am | 15/02/12

Tyr,
“Went down to the farm to pick up some lamb.” Listen! I wouldn’t broadcast that because meat from an animals slaughtered on a property must not leave the property (even the paddock its slaughtered in). It is a criminal offence. Just telling it how it is.

Phil says:

09:40am | 15/02/12

Really this video sums up how the food chain could be altered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5s5qGg01nE

Seriously if meat cost say $ 10 a kilo more for ethical treatment as many have asked for how many of you would pay an extra $ 20 a week for a nice BBQ?

Tyr says:

09:45am | 15/02/12

@ Dieter Moeckel - I’m licensed to remove it by our wonderful Government, to sell it or consume it Also licensed to shoot them.

But thanks for the concern, mate.

Dieter Moeckel says:

09:47am | 15/02/12

M - that doesn’t mean alfalfa doesn’t have stress - a nervous system works for animal life -
I’ve seen plants bleed, I’ve heard them scream.
We mistreat them at our peril.

jgwhite says:

09:54am | 15/02/12

Sounds to me like Bill has a steak… I mean a stick up his arse.

iMitchy says:

10:21am | 15/02/12

Vegos can whinge all they want but nothing will change. If you want something done, do it yourself.

Instead of “raising awareness” or trying to impose laws and standards on others, why not start your own ethically based meat farming industry to your own standards? If the meat is competitively priced it should take off and take over and others will follow. If you’re not meeting your bottom line then ask for some subsidies from animal welfare groups or government and try to hang on.

You see, as consumers we respond to the market, as people we respond to things that make us feel good. That is why we buy tea and coffee with the badge saying that it was not farmed by slaves or child workers. The first to market their products that way did not throw on a 50% “feel good” surcharge, instead they kept the same price, and now pretty much everybody has that badge. Follow their example.

Sitting at a computer whining about the realities of the world and quoting Paul McCartney (who by the way, must never have asked any abattoir workers about their dietry habits) will get you, and us, nowhere.

I, Claudia says:

11:13am | 15/02/12

Actually, Bill, you stated that you believe that your meat gets to your dinner table in the same way that it’s done for thousands of years. This implies the existence of factories thousands of years ago. Mate, I do believe you’ve missed Emma’s point, which was a valid one. And no, I’m not a vegetarian, though I do find it amusing when my fellow meat-eaters start shrieking hysterically whenever the notion of humane slaughtering is raised.

Incidentally, no one’s forcing you to eat vegetables, though you’ll probably live longer (and enjoy a greater quality of life) if you do.

Tubesteak says:

12:31pm | 15/02/12

Tyr
Yay Simpsons! It’s just a little wet, it’s still good, it’s still good. It’s just a little airborne, it’s still good, it’s still good. It’s gone, dad. I know.

Dieter Moeckel
Oops, I’ve broken that law, too. In my case it was a sheep and some chooks on different occasions. I’m not licenced, unlike Tyr.

Pamela says:

02:37pm | 15/02/12

Bill, you’re a idiot!
Watch a film called Earthlings, narrated by Joaquin Phoenix.  Due to the corruption of the world’s meat and diary industries this piece of wonderful truth will probably never be aired in conventional cinema for the ignorant mass to view. The ignorance of the mass is such because corruption has always stopped the truth from being exposed.  You say you know how your meat gets to your plate.  Please tell me what you know and how you know this.

LilyT says:

02:49pm | 15/02/12

Nice attitude Bill.  Do you leave your cave very often?  You have no respect for the animals who suffer and die for your dining pleasure.  No doubt you’re too gutless to do the dirty work yourself though.  Enjoy your bowel cancer, diabetes, strokes, high blood pressure and cholesterol.  You deserve them.

TJ says:

02:57pm | 15/02/12

@Pamela - cow gets born, cow gets killed, cow ends up in my burger or on my BBQ. that’s all I really need to know actually

Snake says:

03:12pm | 15/02/12

Emma, grow up. To eat the meat of an animal you inevitably have to kill it. No doubt slaughtering processes have become more human over the last hundred years and it seems there is still a long way to go. That said, have you seen how nature deals with this? Animals bleed it out with several large cats or wolves hanging from their live body. Very often in documentary clips you see predators begin eating an animal before it has even died. This is not new. Predator will hurt, kill and eat it’s prey, not necessarily in that order, just to survive.

Granted humans have gone beyind a joke, we no longer eat to survive, we eat to get fat and for the taste. A sick existance but obesity is a just reward.

We eat meat because we have to. Proteins and amino acids are the building blocks of muscles. Muscles that were once required to hunt for such meat. Any athlete, or self respecting male could not be a vegetarian and still maintain an impressive physique. Doing so would require grotesque amounts of cottage cheese, beans and tofu. Such amounts would be detrimental to the digestive system. It is far more efficient to eat meat. Not to mention, nothing provides satiety like protein does. It is the reason you can finish your steak but still manage to eat every last potato chip on your plate while saying ‘I’m so full’. Carbs just don’t fill you like meat does.

But hey, you keep eating your greens. I’ll stick to meat.

ando says:

03:59pm | 15/02/12

Snake,
Emma eats meat and didn’t even mention the killing of the animal .

I’m pretty sure an animal in the wild enjoys its life more than one in a cage breed for eating.  Would you rather live a full life and die a horrible death or live in a cage and die quickly and cleanly? As a meat eater myself you and especially Bill are way to defensive.

Trevor says:

04:59pm | 15/02/12

Here is a novel thought for all the ‘think of the poor animals’ crowd:

If we were all vegetarians, the animals that we eat, especially the larger ones, would probably be extinct or on the endangered list by now.

You should think of feed lots as conservation efforts for these noble, tasty animals.

Mike says:

06:58pm | 15/02/12

M, well, your “limited science” is just that, because for you to make such a comment is ignorant.  You are basing the science on YOUR own conclusions and facts as you know things right now.

We didn’t know about asbestos, or cigarettes, or coal tar and the dangers they posed…yet they were not seen as noxious until later.

How do you know that all the science right now is able to detect a plant’s nervous system ?  It might very well be there, you just cannot detect it with today’s (comparatively to the future) primitive science. 

(Oh, but we know everything right now, don’t we ?)

Remember, people also once thought that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth, and that these were absolute truths.  Anyone who said otherwise was clearly a heretic and must be burned at the steak (sic) :D

Just like your science books, they obviously never taught you anything.

Robert Smissen of country SA says:

08:08pm | 15/02/12

First job out of school, 15yo, worked on the slaughter floor. It might be twitching, but it is DEAD, get over it

Kika says:

03:15pm | 16/02/12

PLANTS DO NOT HAVE NERVOUS SYSTEMS THEREFORE THEY CANT FEEL PAIN.

Meat eaters please give me an argument for eating meat other than ‘it tastes good’.

Mike says:

05:57pm | 16/02/12

You need meat because it is a good source of protein, iron and vitamins, without which, you’d be malnourished like some people from poor and emerging countries (who want to move to a more Westernised diet like ours) because they realise the value of eating meat.

Comparably, you’d need to eat lots more vegetables (in terms of mass) to get the same effect.  There’s your reason, meat is healthier and more nutritious, a bit like an espresso versus a latte.

Eva says:

06:20pm | 22/02/12

you’re missing the point here! I also love meat; does this mean I ignore the suffering of those creatures I eat? Her article wasn’t about whether to eat meat or not, it is about our complacency. What stops us from treating those creatures we kill to eat with humility and kindness? I realize killing is not a nice process (yes, I have killed animals and eaten them and not just fish) but why do we accept the cruelty that is added?

Mahhhrat says:

07:06am | 15/02/12

@Emma, I largely agree with this.  I’m reducing my meat consumption and cannot justify the things in the video I won’t watch. 

While I have no problem with an animal dying in order that I might eat it (mmmm….bacon), I do have a problem with how the animal is treated.

I would be happy to further reduce my meat intake and enjoy it from butcheries that operate in fully ethical means (much as I now only buy free-ranged eggs).

The problem is that while I might have the $$ behind me to afford such things, many people don’t.  It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out.

I hate pies says:

08:36am | 15/02/12

It doesn’t really cost any more money to kill animals humanely - our abbatoirs all have the right equipment. The footage is a reflection of the people working at that abbatoir, that’s all.
It’s no big issue, and could be solved in a day - sack those blokes and warn anyone else if they get caught doing it they’re gone too.

BigJohn says:

11:47am | 15/02/12

Exactly, Emma.
You can eat meat and still want it delivered humanely. And what sane person wouldn’t? People who get kicks out of animal cruelty generally have serious psychological disorders.
For the rest of us, we pay a lot for our food in this country—far more than other parts of the world. Why shouldn’t we be entitled to demand world-class standards for meat production?

Kika says:

03:27pm | 16/02/12

Exactly Emma. I am the same. I don’t eat meat yet I realise others will because of the taste.

There’s no need or reason for factory farming nor slaughter other than greed - greed for meat, greed for cash.  And the more consumers know how their meat was raised, lived and slaughtered the better. Even if they don’t care about their quality of life, but for their own health reasons. Nobody wants to eat meat that has only been kept alive from bad breeding, antibiotics, hormones and living in its own filth.

RightOfWay says:

08:51am | 15/02/12

I think I’d go crazy if I couldn’t eat steak…

Snake says:

03:18pm | 15/02/12

Nothing sustains muscle like protein does. That reason alone is enough to continue to eat meat regardless.

No amount of tofu really replaces the feeling of a well cooked and well prepared steak. Cry all you like.

LC says:

08:49am | 17/02/12

You do know that mad cow disease started off in America where a bunch of fruit loops decided it would be a good idea to contaminate cow feed with beef mince, right?

Hope you more now aware of the attitudes a sizeable minority have in company you keep.

TC says:

06:50am | 15/02/12

@Old Fogey,

Well said Fogey. That’s a sensible and rational argument you put forward there.

Surely there are regulators or organisations out there who are supposed to be monitoring these abattoirs and their methods of killing. Where are they in all of this? Shouldn’t some of these questions be directed at them? Clearly abattoir practises aren’t being policed as they should be.

Kebabpete says:

08:16am | 15/02/12

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

I was raised on a cattle farm and have many family members working in abattoirs all over Oz and none of them are run like this.

As per usual, a video produced by a bunch of vego’s with nothing better to do than pick on the meat industry has been picked up by the sensationalized media in this country and now the majority of ethical meat producers are made to suffer.

Where is their other videos which show the length that most abattoirs go to in order to meat ethical Australian standards. (The ones that actually push our retail meat prices through the roof already)

Also, why is an abattoir only called a ‘slaughter house’ when people are trying to degrade the work they do? No one who works their calls it that.

lv says:

10:46am | 15/02/12

@kebabpete
It’s a slaughterhouse, thats what it’s always been called. And the job is called slaughterman. Although thats the nice term, I have been told by customers that work in meat “processing” that their jobs are “sheep killer” & “chicken hanger”.

Emma says:

06:32am | 15/02/12

JaneB

What does that have to do with growing up? You cannot compare humans to lions or tigers when it suits you. Obviously humans have the means and knowledge to make this process as “kind” as possible. What is wrong with that? If we can do better for a small price then why shouldnt we?

Budz says:

08:27am | 15/02/12

@JaneB: You are saying you have the same level of empathy and compassion as lions and tigers? Sucks to be in your life!

dancan says:

09:14am | 15/02/12

Jane, using lions and tigers is a horrible and absurd argument. 

Did you know male lions often kill the babies of a pride when they take them over by force?  Would you be so happy to use the ‘lion’ argument if a man entered into a relationship with a woman, killed her children because he perceived them as a threat to his possibility to father children and then used the defence of “well lions do it”?

At least put the time into a credible defence or argument before posting this absurdity on the internet.  Or don’t do either and just say “I don’t care” and leave it at that, you only embarrass yourself

patsy says:

09:25am | 15/02/12

@JaneB-the major benefit in eating meat is for protien not vitamin B unless you are eating the liver and the other offal bits.

RED says:

10:23am | 15/02/12

That’s surprising how?
Why would someone that was turned off eating meat by seeing what goes on continue working there?

Sharon says:

03:34pm | 15/02/12

Ask Dave Hughes (comedian) ..... ex slaughetrhouse worker, now claims to be vego, although I think he still eats fish!

Al says:

06:46am | 15/02/12

You mean the PETA goals?

Dragon says:

09:31am | 15/02/12

Not worth the effort, Someone will instigate a new hip cause that all the sheep (pardon the pun) will flock to like PETA - People for the Ethical Treatment of Alfalfa.

matt says:

11:56am | 15/02/12

Johnoo, yes, what a realistic response for simply trying to make slaughterhouses less cruel.
Well, we could stop people torturing animals before killing them but NO, LET’S BAN ALL ANIMAL PRODUCTS.
A little hysterical?

Mayday says:

10:43am | 15/02/12

At least Sam would give us a few laughs.

Emma says “My Dad went from hearing pigs scream as a boy to cooking them - and many other types of animals - for a living. Meanwhile, I can’t eat his food anymore.” 

Could this be where the problem lies Emma?

LilyT says:

02:46pm | 15/02/12

What complete and utter bollocks, Hoob.  That video was not staged, nor was this one.  The abattoir works both in Indonesia AND here have admitted that what happened in the videos was not unusual, in a “well what do you expect?” kind of way.  I can point you to an article from the Jakarta Post where a former slaughterhouse worker cheerfully admitted that what was filmed by Animals Australia was fairly standard practice.  And another where one of the Australian workers asked the reporter what he was supposed to do when a pig escaped onto the killing floor.

‘Workers in Jakarta’s slaughterhouses say the way they kill cattle is not inhumane and uses only conventional “manual” measures.

Muhammad Mudhofir, who previously worked at the Pulogadung slaughterhouse in East Jakarta, told The Jakarta Post recently that he and his co-workers typically crippled animals before they were killed.

Cattle in Jakarta’s slaughterhouses have typically their leg muscles cut and their throats slit before they are toppled off of concrete mounds to their deaths.

“When we killed an animal manually, first we’d incapacitate it and tie it down by its head and legs,” he said. “We could also do it with the help of restraining boxes and stun guns but, in practice, we found it was easier to do it manually.”

Mudhofir, a slaughterhouse worker from 1997 to 2002, said some people might fight the process of incapacitating cattle disturbing or abusive.

To cripple cattle, he said, workers had to slash an animal’s legs to make it drop to the ground and then slash its neck to render it unconscious.

“The slaughterhouse workers are accustomed to the traditional methods. We were never trained in modern tools such as restraining boxes or stun guns, he said, adding that such training was non-existent at his slaughterhouse.

“It is true that workers might kick, punch or do anything that necessary to make the animal fall down.”’

As for this sociopath:  “MarkS says: 08:40am | 15/02/12
I am aware of how the meat gets on my table and I do not care.”  People like this are why factory farms and inhumane slaughter practices exist.  Makes me ashamed to belong to the same species.

LC says:

09:17am | 17/02/12

Sorry, Lily but the practices followed by abattoirs here are very different from the ones followed in Indonesia. This makes for both better ethical practice and nicer tasing meat (an animal in distress at the time of death produces tough meat).

And last I checked, we do not source our meat from Indonesia. It’s all done locally. I know how things work in local abattoirs, and just like MarkS, I don’t care.

If it’s not good enough for you, then open an abattoir and some cattle farms that operate the way you like it. If it’s uncompeditive with currently established ones, then try and get an animal rights/animal welfare group to subsidize it for you.

I think the primary issue here is a combination of people living in cities for too long and becoming disconnected from the realities of everyday life, and a generation or three who’ve have never known true evil, and can’t understand what life is like in such circumstances. The attitude comes from a members of a society who’ve had it too good for too long.

Super D says:

07:32am | 15/02/12

I’m not suggesting that the animal cruelty argument needs to be balanced rather the anti meat consumption theme. Vegetarianism is after all a fringe activity.

impossible soul says:

04:16pm | 16/02/12

Of course humans are at the top of the food chain. We’re an apex predator. So are sharks and lions. Yes they eat us, but we also eat them. Animals that eat each other bidirectionally habituate on the same plane in the food chain. Humans are on top of the food chain. Which means, there is no animal that eats humans that we don’t eat ourselves. So yes, JaneB is right, we are at the top of the food chain, and have been for many years.

Turbaconucken says:

08:22am | 15/02/12

So you don’t eat pork or chicken. Big deal, mate. Are you doing anything to help them out, and stop the inhumane treatment? Or just prancing about on your high horse while chook & piggy live another few miserable hours to feed me instead?

David` says:

11:15am | 15/02/12

I did a short stint working in a chicken farm when I was a teenager and chicken is still one of my favourite foods. The conditions were nothing like as bad as the animal liberationalists make out.

matt says:

04:27pm | 15/02/12

Turbaconucken—i read the comment you’re referring to above. Who’s prancing? I can’t see any gloating in Fromage67’s comment. Making an informed decision not to support an industry you don’t agree with, is that ok? Or do all vegetarians have to go breaking into farms and lobbying canberra.
Strange argument, if that’s what you’re suggesting…

Emma says:

07:08am | 15/02/12

Considering what you eat and how it has been produced does not make you a tree hugger.
Same as you look for if your veggies are Australian grown or control you intake of fast food.
A little awareness goes a long way and does not have to be anything extreme.

Shane* says:

04:03pm | 15/02/12

@Emma.

I consider what I eat and how it’s been produced.

As such, I try to minimise my grain/wheat/rice/corn consumption, as it contributes to the massacre and brutal deaths of thousands of field mice for every tonne of foodstuff.

I try to eat more meat, which minimises animal suffering by comparison.

Compare a plate of steak + potato to a plate of salad, legumes and bread. Which plate has caused the death of more animals? Answer: The salad/legume/bread combo… by FAR.

Empathy says:

08:47am | 15/02/12

@thatmosis. It’s true, it has been happening for years, and it’s good that you have your eyes wide open about where your food comes from, but I think you missed the point. My understanding was that this article was more about empathy - and why seeing terrible cruelty (either first hand, or via YouTube) doesn’t distress us enough to stop consuming the product.

The writer is posing the question around empathy and why we aren’t more empathetic to the plight of how these animals spend their last days (or most of their lives..)

You’re right “that’s life”. It’s not perfect, but it can change for the better. It can change for the more humane treatment of animals before they are “butchered and sliced and put in the window of the closest butcher shop”.

I don’t think educating people to be more empathetic to animal welfare is an airy fairy goal.

TJ says:

09:14am | 15/02/12

@Empathy - why should it stop us consuming that product? I am not about to stop eating meat just because an animal was killed, just like I will not stop taking my medication just because it was tested on animals

Justathought says:

09:15am | 15/02/12

@thatmosis - Surely the title “Enjoy your porterhouse, but consider the slaughterhouse”. Gives you a tiny insight into what the point of this article is?!

It’s people continuing to eat meat, but turning a blind eye, not caring about how animals are treated, and the government not caring about the terrible conditions in places like these, and perhaps introducing better ways of ensuring that situations like this don’t occur again

It’s NOT about turning the world into vegetarians or living with your head in the clouds.

Awesome stuff that you don’t stress the animal before you kill them - we clearly need more people like you working at the Hawkesbury Valley Slaughterhouse.

Empathy says:

10:00am | 15/02/12

@ TJ - sorry, you misread my comment.

I think the writer was questioning why we don’t stop or change our attitudes, even after seeing terrible things. (And as @Justathought says below me - maybe I’m wrong.. the writer isn’t saying ‘stop’ she is saying ‘enjoy’ your food and ‘consider’ how it gets there)

I don’t think we should stop consuming (I eat meat.. and love it!) But, I would like to see more empathy towards how we treat these animals before they are killed.

I don’t think being smashed over the head with a metal bar is appropriate. Do you?

I feel there are better ways to do it - and ways that should be enforced by a regulatory body. Wouldn’t you agree?

TJ says:

10:18am | 15/02/12

@Empathy - a thousand apologies, I did indeed misread your comment and I do agree

matt says:

11:52am | 15/02/12

Quite right, Empathy. It’s not about the killing, it’s about the cruelty. For heavens sake people, read the article and stop shrieking BUT WE’VE BEEN EATING MEAT FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!! It’s not the point…

Sally says:

01:13pm | 15/02/12

Actually Tim, the videos have great impact. Enough to make me and other people I know stop eating meat for good. I don’t want ANY part of that brutality.

Tim says:

01:23pm | 15/02/12

Sally,
I’m trying to be nice but if those videos make you want to stop eating meat then you’re a fool.
Do you honestly think that those videos represent the meat industry as a whole?
They are nothing more than propaganda videos from hardcore vego organisations.

TJ says:

01:25pm | 15/02/12

all the more for me then

Danielle says:

07:46am | 15/02/12

Watch this video and you may think a little different;
I’m not saying you need to become a vegetarian as people do have a right to their opinion and choices they decide whether it may be the right or wrong choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNCGkprGW_o

David says:

11:22am | 15/02/12

@Danielle

I don’t need to watch you tube videos to believe that a slaughter house was found to be guilty of animal cruelty. When this kind of thing is discovered, prosecute them, shut them down - end of story. We don’t need the animal liberation movement parading the images around trying to guilt the entire population into thinking that this is how all slaughter houses operate.

Wynston Cruso says:

12:23pm | 15/02/12

Exactly David, I don’t see the point of articles like this. It’s as though some people are only just discovering that meat comes from animals. Juicy, delicious animals.

Danielle says:

05:00pm | 15/02/12

David how did I know you would notice “you tube” in the url hyperlink and think it would be a video of animal cruelty, sorry your wrong, it’s not that. It’s your biological future health situation.
Take a peek at that video, I feel you might find it interesting.
It runs for 57mins.
I would recommend using waterless cookware for cooking all food types,it is a good place to start.
The Benifits of IMCO Waterless Cookware http://imcoaustralia.com.au/benifits.html

David says:

09:07pm | 15/02/12

@Danielle,

I have more pressing health problems to worry about than any ill effects than are going to plague me from my food and cookware choices.

Thirsty says:

07:46am | 15/02/12

and an overcooked, dried out piece of leather at that…
The Punch could of at least pulled a picture off some cooking website that actually shows a nice juicy piece of meat, but that might have distracted the reader from the bullshit that piece is

Gregg says:

08:13am | 15/02/12

I think Porterhouse is used to rhyme with slaughterhouse in the article heading and no word of it being other than a Tbone in the caption.

Dosen’t look too dried out from where I’m salivating and reaching for another drink to freshen my taste buds.

Tyr says:

08:20am | 15/02/12

Porter can have a t bone. Porters just have more tenderloin, if memory serves me correct. Still a Yank term however.

Anyhoo, still bloody delicious!! Might have one for lunch!

Chris says:

08:21am | 15/02/12

actually I was wondering that myself…

Also yes - it looks awful! 
C

Steakysteak says:

08:25am | 15/02/12

Not really a T-bone fan here. Stil could someone pass the bbq sauce.
Or if you’ve got time, whip up some vodka/blue cheese butter for it?

Thirsty says:

09:31am | 15/02/12

@Gregg
If you like your steak to be all dried out mate, go ahead and drool over this picture
As the old saying goes, looks as dry as a nuns #@%^
No juice, no flavour, just like the other great wonder in this world that I love munching on….

thatmosis says:

09:27pm | 15/02/12

Come on Steakysteak, the only way to enjoy a great piece of meat is to lightly sear it on both sides and then serve it with a side salad, no condiments as this takes away from the flavour of the meat. As my dad used to say, wipe its bum, trim its horns put it on a plate and pass it past a warm candle and serve.

MarkF says:

07:44am | 15/02/12

When I pen the cattle up for slaughter next day I’ll quite often lean on the rail and talk to them.  The cows are the best because you can almost get them within touching distance while your talking.  Maybe I work by myself too much?

Danielle says:

08:04am | 15/02/12

Mark I feel that it is not that you work on your own but in reality you must like cows and I have helped a friend who has cattle when I’m visiting.
Cows do come across to me as calm balanced and beautiful creatures but in saying that, it’s a pity the majority of people don’t have them qualities.

jg says:

12:27pm | 15/02/12

If people had to kill their own food then they would seriously think about changing their eating habits.

.

Wynston Cruso says:

12:32pm | 15/02/12

But they can’t, because they’re animals. Animals that we learnt to domesticate over 10 thousand years ago for the specific purpose of providing us food. Why do some people have a problem with this? Should apex predators also stop consuming meat because it’s mean? “If animals could speak”..... I’ve heard some dumb things but shit.

LilyT says:

02:53pm | 15/02/12

There are some really selfish, disrespectful, compassionless knuckle-draggers here, Danielle.  I agree that if animals could speak, it would be a whole different ballgame.

Wynston Cruso says:

06:30pm | 15/02/12

No, it wouldn’t. We’d simply gag them first. Or kill them quicker to shut them the hell up. Giving them human characteristics doesn’t make them any less delicious.

thatmosis says:

10:05am | 16/02/12

If a cow is happy and content then the meat is tenderer whereas a stressed beast makes the meat tough. Its great to pen the cattle to day before and hand feed them to make them settle as this is just what the docror ordered for really tender portions.

Steven says:

08:14am | 15/02/12

Agree! A++

patsy says:

10:15am | 15/02/12

@Nathan Explosion-Agree+++
I come from a long line of butchers. (Not me, knife skills don’t seem to be inherited) If there was a butcher on the first fleet it was probably one of ours.
I have a love affair with crumbed cutlets (I hope Moree pub has survivrd the floods because they make the best cutlets ever) which at Woolies are $1 a mouthful. At our butcher, not only is it cheaper but when I ask for the ones with the most fat he jokes that they were the ones he wanted. If ever you’re having a bad day go to your butcher he’ll tell you a joke and chat you up.
Butchers also cut their chops etc thicker. Don’t have to pound their cutlets to make it worthwhile to crumb. The best part is that his thicker lamb loin chops are always $14 and then I saw Woolies had them on special for $14 which was $10 off.  Point is I’d have to eat two Woolies chops but, only one of my butchers’.
I’ve also banned Woolies for my fruit and vegies as I don’t like my lettuces brown in the middle.

Emma says:

07:57am | 15/02/12

Its totally up to you. But dont be too hard on your parents. Its their job to provide you with a balanced diet and introduce you to all kinds of food. They have done that to the best of their knowledge. I am sure if you had said as a teenager that you dont want to eat meat for certain reasons, they would have respected that.

I actually find vegetarian parents worse as they rarely respect it when the child one day wants to experience a hamburger.

Tolerance should go both ways.

Chris says:

08:19am | 15/02/12

Sharon I guess the question is this:  if all the animals in this country were killed humanly, having lived in decent conditions, would you then choose to eat meat?  Given that you seemed to make your choice as a child, I have a feeling you would not. 

Also - it seems that you have made your choice for your family, just as your parents did for you (which you seem to have had problems with).  Are you providing your children with the ability to choose their own path?

Food for thought, I guess.

Cheerio,
C

I hate pies says:

08:49am | 15/02/12

out of site, out of mind, that’s why. How can you justify wearing clothes, commenting on punch articles on your computer and listening to your ipod without taking a tour of the sweatshops that produce the cheap items you buy?
Or is that different because you like computers and clothes?

M says:

08:56am | 15/02/12

I could make the case that taking 5-6year olds to a slaughter house would be classified as child abuse if it put them off their food.

I do wish you veggie weirdo’s would stop telling us what we should and shouldn’t do in regards to our diet. We don’t get up you for wanting to eat only mung beans and tofu, so keep your noses out of our diet.

TJ says:

08:59am | 15/02/12

why would you want to traumatise young children? hey why not take them to the morgue as well to show them a dead body of a drug user or car crash victim to show them what could happen to them?

Paul says:

10:48am | 15/02/12

@ Sharon: When I was 6 my father took me to an abbatoir a few times, my grandfather was the stock manager. As a city kid Dad thought it important that I appreciate where our food comes from.

I witnessed lamb, beef and pig slaughters and the processing of the carcasses. Dad and Grandfather explained each step and at 6 I thought it was a good few days whilst on school holidays. I also shot rabbits on my Grandmothers farm under the strict guidance of my father.

I think back to that now and appreciate it for it taught me a lot about life and death, the food chain and the environment. I still love eating meat and like to think I have balanced views because of it.

Sharon says:

11:18am | 15/02/12

To respond to several of the above posts:

I have never been hard on my parents about the dietary or religious choices they made for me as a child. I made my own choices in my teens and adult years which they totally respect, as I will do for my children. Interestingly, my parents (like many others) admit that they could not visit a slaughterhouse or even watch footage from one, let alone kill an animal themselves. They are totally uncomfortable even discussing these issues and claim to abhor animal cruelty, but will buy inherently cruel intensively produced animal products.

The important factors for me in the choices I make are honesty, transparency, education, critical thinking and compassion. Not saying my choices do no harm, but I am trying to do less harm.

My family also support organisations like Oxfam and Medicines sans frontiers among others.

My children are now 10 and 8, have never eaten meat, and have always been in excellent health and with high energy levels. I have told them the truth in a gentle non-confrontational way about human choices, ethics, empathy and compassion in all aspects of life. My husband (vego since he was 19) and I have also told them that they may choose to eat meat when they are older - they respond with a horrified “no way, we love animals.”  I believe that our gentle honest approach has a lot to do with this response.

Comparing viewing of animal slaughter for meat that people choose to eat with a viewing dead bodies in a morgue or car crash victims is blatantly incongruous, unless those you are asking to bear witness have actually directly caused the death.

To those who argue that exposing children to the slaughter or factory farming of animals for the meat that they eat would be too traumatic - I rest my case. 

“Very little of the great cruelty shown by men can really be attributed to cruel instinct.  Most of it comes from thoughtlessness or inherited habit.  The roots of cruelty, therefore, are not so much strong as widespread.  But the time must come when inhumanity protected by custom and thoughtlessness will succumb before humanity championed by thought.  Let us work that this time may come.”  ~Albert Schweitzer

Nathan Explosion says:

11:25am | 15/02/12

@M

Went to several farms before I was ten and saw deers, turkeys, trout, chicken and cows slaughted. Also used to do a lot of yabbying.

It gave a healthy respect for where my food comes from.

Paul says:

12:46pm | 15/02/12

@ Sharon: Albert Schweitzer was also quoted as saying, “The African is indeed my brother but my junior brother.”

MarkF says:

01:01pm | 15/02/12

@Paul…Thanks for the memories.  Going out on the back of an ancient truck with a crank handle to start it spot lighting as a kid.  Going out in the afternoons and setting the rabbit traps and up nice and early next morning to see if you had caught anything.  Kids don’t know what they are missing nowadays.

Sharon says:

05:26pm | 15/02/12

@Paul: You might want to check the context of the reporting of that quote and the related subsequent quotes Schweitzer is attributed with, in the interests of completeness and clarity.

A feeble attempt to undermine the premise of the quote on this issue - the thoughtless cruelty that humans inflict on animals.

Emma says:

09:56am | 15/02/12

Some aspects of our global modern overpopulated society is that we have with industrialisation made everything so efficient - without sparing a thought if efficiency should really be the only important goal.

sally p. says:

04:40pm | 15/02/12

You know, Steven, having just come back from a marathon overseas holiday I reckon we pay so much for our meat here anyway.So why shouldn’t we get these kinds of protections as standard? I couldn’t believe how cheap it was to be carnivorous overseas compared with Australia.
If meat was cheaper, i’d be happy to pay a premium for a production process free of torture. But since it’s so damn expensive, we should already be receiving these standards, IMO.

Emma says:

09:41am | 15/02/12

You are asking those questions, dont bother to find the answer and lay back and continue to ignore everything around you as it suits you the way it is.

Brando says:

09:16am | 15/02/12

That’s right Shane.

Everytime I see people going on about saving the animals it appears that it’s only the cute ones they want to save.

Nobody ever seems to worry about an ugly animal

Ness says:

10:43am | 15/02/12

One level of harm doesn’t negate another. just because one person chooses to live their life a curtain way doesn’t mean that you should find any way possible to contradict it….... Vegans and Vegos are trying to the the best of what they think is right. No one way is perfect, but some ways are better and has less impact then others. Im sure you still consume all the things you say contribute to the suffering of those lizards etc, (if not directly, then indirectly through the feed that goes to meat producing animals) well, you still consume meat which is causing suffering to cows and pigs etc…....they are causing half the amount of suffering you are….. reduce your impact or we’re all goners.

Shane* says:

03:18pm | 15/02/12

You’re right in one regard, Ness: Some ways are better and have less impact than others.

But you’ve got it backwards on the numbers.

To get a tonne of wheat we slaughter (indirectly, terribly inhumanely) literally THOUSANDS of mice, other rodents, birds, lizards etc…

To get a tonne of meat we slaughter (directly and in an ideal world humanely) a few dozen grass fed cows.

Some ways ARE better than others. To minimise the number of sentient beings that die for our diets, we’re better off eating more meat, not less.

Think about it. It makes sense.

Shane* says:

03:24pm | 15/02/12

And Ness, 90% + of cows in Australia are grass fed, not grain fed. Therefore no mice were slaughtered to produce their feed.

It’s such an elegant and simple retort to “humanitarian’ vegetarianism/veganism… And it’s 100% accurate:

My diet of meat and grains and salad kills far far FAR fewer animals than any diet of grains and salad.

iMitchy says:

02:15pm | 15/02/12

A bit off topic, but you reminded me…..

I wonder if supermarket chains have a higher margin on free range eggs? Think about it - off course they cost a little more to produce (less eggs laid per square meter of land paid for) so we know that we’ll have to pay a little more at the checkout, and we do, out of guilt and to get that warm fuzzy feeling from “doing the right thing”.

But do the supermarkets play on that expectation and throw on just a percent or two more margin than they do on the evil, blandly packaged cage eggs?

Seriously, look at the packaging difference between cage eggs and free range eggs… The supermarkets are obviously trying to push free range - but why would they if it didn’t affect their bottom line? It’s like taking a shit next to brussel sprout so the sprout looks more appealing by comparison.

Chris says:

09:26am | 15/02/12

Don’t like potatoes then?

Blind Freddy says:

10:16am | 15/02/12

Thats why I added the “and arsehole”

Andrew says:

11:11am | 15/02/12

Havent seem a piece of steak, sausage etc with an eye or an arsehole for a while so all is good.

Chris says:

11:55am | 15/02/12

He Fred,

actually you said “and/or” but anyway was just havin’ a bit of fun…

Blind Freddy says:

03:19pm | 15/02/12

@Chris

Cheers. I did ponder my use of “and/or” and whether it served my intended purpose. Doh!

M says:

09:17am | 15/02/12

I’m going to eat 3 different kinds of meat tonight just to annoy you.

Chicken wrapped in bacon with a side of fish should do the trick.

PsychoHyena says:

09:23am | 15/02/12

@Fish Finga, I will stop eating meat the day that carnivores stop eating meat. Have you seen how members of the feline family kills their prey? That’s not pretty. What about how a crocodile or alligator kills their prey?

It befuddles me as to why, when humans require meat (technically it should be raw meat) along with grains and the like, we have people like yourself telling us to not eat meat.

TChong says:

09:26am | 15/02/12

Fishy Thingers
Depends who caught you .
A kiss and put back in, to swim away , might be good from ET
A kiss and a , ( well, not quite sure what might happen next ) from
Rex Hunt , might be a different story.
A whole different kettle of fish ! perhaps.

Jasmine says:

10:35am | 15/02/12

@ Fish Finga, shouldn’t you be in school?

Fish Finga says:

10:50am | 15/02/12

PsychoHyena, the girls in my family and the guys as well nnevar eat or even KILL animals were all vegatarians and will always be trying to stop meat eating.

TJ says:

11:10am | 15/02/12

and that’s where us carnivores have a problem with you people FF, stop trying to make us do something because you have a problem with it. Freedom of choice means we can choose to eat meat. you and your family don’t fine I am not going to try force feed you hamburgers, but don’t you DARE try to tell me how I must live my life, you do not have the right

PsychoHyena says:

11:37am | 15/02/12

@Fish Finga you totally missed my point, which was your intent I believe.

To be honest I prefer treating animals humanely from start to end. I would also like to ask what the difference is between killing a plant to get your food and killing an animal? And don’t give me the BS about “reducing the level of suffering”. On a 1 to 1 basis what is the difference? Sentience? Given that plant-life (such as fungi) show a level of thought in regards to how they grow, could we therefore say that they are sentient?

Al says:

11:38am | 15/02/12

Flesh is food.
And before the usual comments regarding this stance flow in I will answer their position:
Yes, if it was a choice between starving to death or consuming human flesh I would opt to eat human flesh.

philip says:

11:39am | 15/02/12

question fish finga who made that decision was it your parents or was it you and your brothers/sisters, also why do you consider it murder? and are you attempting to stop sharks,lions,crocs etc. from eating meat if not why not,

Wynston Cruso says:

12:41pm | 15/02/12

Wow fish Fish Finga, maybe you should consider eating meat because it seems your brain is a little under developed. How would you like to be pulled out of the ground and eaten? Or have your leaves ripped off to be consumed by humans? How would you like for all of your habitat to be destroyed so that some humans can grow their vegetables? Idiot.

I’m going to have 2 of what M is having.

Fish Finga says:

02:05pm | 15/02/12

There is nothing wrong with me I was breastfed till i was 8 and theres more nutriants in brestmilk than meat. vegatarianism is my choice and we have heaps of pet chickens and cows on our farm and we know all their names. All animals dezerve a chance at life!!!

TJ says:

02:20pm | 15/02/12

well at least now we know Fish’s problem, breast fed until 8??? parents are nutters

Wynston Cruso says:

02:28pm | 15/02/12

You sir, win the internet.

TJ says:

03:01pm | 15/02/12

and the babies taste the best

Andrew says:

11:15am | 15/02/12

Two of the smartest people in the world agreed witha vege diet, so the rest of the smartest people agreed with a meat diet, I would say the 2 were outnumbered.

M says:

10:01am | 15/02/12

Grow up, we all eat animals.

MarkF says:

10:24am | 15/02/12

And therein lies the problem.  When you talk of the dignity of animals you are trying to apply human thoughts and values to what is after all an animal.  There can only be one real comment there and that is to grow up.  This is the real world not some little Disney fantasy where all the animals speak and act just like us.

Emilia says:

10:40am | 15/02/12

Again with the associations of being a child (“Disney fantasy”) and considering ethics. Strange.

There is nothing there of applying human notions of dignity onto animals. Anybody with reason knows there different levels of dignity for different creatures. You wouldn’t say an animal’s “dignity” has been lost if it isn’t offered clothing to wear, but you would for a human being. It’s clearly. But the “dignity” to live a life without undue pain and suffering enforced without reason? All animals (and we are animals, too, remember) deserve that.

Blind Freddy says:

11:23am | 15/02/12

No shades of grey in the worlds of M and MarkF. According to them, any concern for anything other than the self and you are living in fanatasy world. Liberal voters- for sure.

iMitchy says:

11:26am | 15/02/12

@ Emilia, If you can’t beat em join em.

If you want to get your message across effectively then accept the criticism and adapt. We’re talking about a simple change in vocabulary here.

M says:

11:34am | 15/02/12

I can’t bring myself to vote for abbott, I just can’t.

MarkF says:

12:07pm | 15/02/12

@Emilia I’ve never seen a graduated level of dignities for different animals.  Which Walt Disney movie did that come from?

@Blind Freddy don’t swear mate.  Liberal voter indeed.  Try the Mad Hatter and Shooters Party all the way.  Little aside here I’m also legally colour blind so I don’t see shades of grey.

Have a nice one.

Wynston Cruso says:

12:52pm | 15/02/12

‘But the “dignity” to live a life without undue pain and suffering enforced without reason?’ - Not no reason at all, the reason is to feed us. I still don’t get why people have a problem with the fact that we are superior to arguably every other creature on the planet, and choose to use that superiority to sustain and even enhance ourselves. Every top predator does this. Should lions and sharks also stop eating other animals? After all they’re animals just like us, as you say, so should we not be prohibiting their consumption of meat? But then we would be hurting their feelings, where does it end? I’d like to know what your solution to this great moral dilemma is Emelia, shall we all just starve seeing as it’s mean for us to kill anything? The argument that we shouldn’t eat meat because animals have feelings is definately childish.

Thirsty says:

10:45am | 15/02/12

@Phill
I am a firm believer that if you dont have the stomach for the hard bloody work in preparing seed beds for grains, vegetables etc, harvesting your own seeds from the previous years crops, milling the grain into flour to make bread, taking the financial risk of drought, flood, disease ruining this years crops, as well as shouldering the financial risk of owning the land where you grow the crops to start with, then you shouldnt be a vegetarian either
Idiot

Sharon says:

11:43am | 15/02/12

@Thirsty. Your comparison is incongruous.

Many people prefer deliberate ignorance rather than have to witness, let alone directly participate in animal slaughter, lest it prick their conscience and turn their stomach.

I’m not aware of anyone who can’t bear the sight of a crop paddock, fruit orchard, or vegie patch, or the harvesting of these plant products.

Thirsty says:

12:43pm | 15/02/12

@Sharon
Please dont use big words like incongruous…Im just the son of a simple dairy farmer…I only received a poor country education, not a fancy pancy city one
Dear Phill (or idiot as I described) clearly states that if you dont have the stomach to kill the meat yourself, you shouldnt eat it. All I did was reply that if you dont have the stomach to grow your own grain and veges, encompasing at that that means, then you shouldnt eat them either
You might be a bit smarter than me (not too hard…), so can you please point out where said idiot or myself talked about looking at animals or fields of crops?
Im pretty sure this whole conversation starting with said idiot saying that if you werent capable of killing and butchering meat (I think they are verbs, ie, doing words, not passive sit on my hands and have a looksy out the window type words…), then you shouldnt eat it…all I was saying that the same logic can be applied to non meat eaters
Ahh, another idiot…you two might make a nice pair

Sharon says:

03:25pm | 15/02/12

@Thirsty:  I spent several years in rural Australia attending a country area school too! It was a great life and education. I left school at 15 for a job to earn money as my parents were unable to support me.

If you don’t believe there is any difference between the way we use and treat animals with the capacity to feel pain, fear and joy, and a bus factory or the process of harvesting of vegetables, then I don’t think there is anything else I can say to you. 

You insulting others when they make a very valid polite point, is really not the way to go.

Jasmine says:

10:40am | 15/02/12

Yes, no mention is made by the Animal Libbers of Halal or Kosher methods of slaughter - have they given up on these? See how animals are treated on other continents to see real cruelty.

That of course is no reason to lower our standards.

Emma says:

12:34pm | 15/02/12

I totally agree. In fact, I avoid butchers and restaurants that offer halal meat for that reason. I find it unnecessarily cruel.

I lived in Belgium for a while and there are a lot of muslims and everything was halal. You should have seen their disbelieving faces when I told them, I will not eat this meat, as it is halal.

That in mind, I very rarely consume red meat anyway.

Sharon says:

07:38pm | 15/02/12

@Jay Santos:  all slaughter is inherently cruel, just different levels of cruelty, and I agree that without prestunning is clearly the worst and should be illegal.

No amount of religion, culture, tradition or money can justify any form of deliberate cruel exploitation, abuse or slaughter of innocent voiceless animals.

Andrew says:

11:22am | 15/02/12

Humans also have the right to be free and not live in fear, woman have the right to an education and equal rights, woman have the right not to be circumcised when they are girls. They have the right not to be butchered, tortured or murdered. Yet this happens in many countries and we do nothing. In fact when we try to do something (like in Afganistan) the majority yell, its none of our business, we have no right to be there.

iMitchy says:

12:04pm | 15/02/12

I agree Ness, you have brought some civility with you, along with a rational debate.

I will however, draw your attention to my comment in response to the replies on the very first post of this thread.
It is up to those who are “fighting” for this cause to do something about it. In the comment I have just referred to, I suggested going into competition with current meat producers.

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to create some kind of organisation which could draw up guidelines, processes and standards for ethical meat production. Then employ auditors to investigate practices at farms and abattoirs and see who meets your standards and offer them the option to mark their products with your completely voluntary, highly recognisable symbol to illustrate that their product is produced ethically.
Their decision will ride on the ability of that mark to create sales growth, a la “Heart Foundation Tick”.

We currently have no such thing in Australia, and if we do, the fact that I have never heard of it means that it isn’t fulfilling its purpose. Without such a mechanism how do WE “have the ability to buy cruelty free products”?

So in the name of rational debate Ness, I compel you to answer this question, as you were the one who made the assertion. If you can’t then what is the point of the topic being brought up in the first place?

Sorry, but I just hate when people want to “discuss” problems without offering any thoughts on a possible solution. The article for this thread is a perfect example - the only option it alluded to was to cut out meat altogether.

Ness says:

02:24pm | 15/02/12

@iMitchy - I read your comment about developing some sort of monitoring body. Fantastic idea! One of the things Animals Australia is currently pushing for is, CCTV in abattoirs. I think this is the first step towards making something like that a real possibility.
I must say though just because i’m spending a few minutes of my day off to read articles that interest me and make comment doesn’t mean thats all I do.
I truly believe that a massive part of working towards what I believe in is to spread the word along with real action…... that is what I am doing, along with the others on here who are voicing their opinions.
This is the beauty of the internet, It doesn’t take long to have your voice heard by a lot of people.
I really don’t think the article said that cutting meat is the only option. It is the option I have chosen because I am trying to reduce the harm I cause to this planet and the living creatures on it. I work in the medical field and spend my days reducing the pain and suffering of my patients, I do the same at the dinner table, on my days off and at my computer.

@Andrew, I think there are a lot of people doing great work to reduce the suffering of people, particularly women around the world. Get involved with one of those charities, make it your business.

I don’t know what else to say…... the lack of compassion shown for animals that OBVIOUSLY feel pain and fear is beyond my thought processes. It’ easy enough to fix if people would just demand that what they consume is fair and causes minimal suffering to people and animals. PEACE

iMitchy says:

03:20pm | 15/02/12

I don’t know what CCTV will acheive, unless it is used as an auditing mechanism to the aforementioned branding technique…Without it individuals may be reprimanded for braking any laws but at the end of the day, I will not know if the meat I am putting in my shopping trolley is from that particular abattoir. Chances are, it’s not.

Blanket attacks on “cruelty within the industry” or even reports of a one off event affect the whole industry, but there is no repreive, no “on the plus side”. If the industry is given a mechanism to increase individual producers competitive advantage by eradicating cruelty however, producers will fall over themselves to get on board. Individual workers who break the rules risk the company’s integrity and be seen to accordingly.

matt says:

04:45pm | 15/02/12

Hmmm only certain types of cows Martin. Not all female cows are suitable breeds for dairy farms. In fact a damn lot of them aren’t. So sorry, you’re eating girl cows in your steak sanga not just the fellas.
And I reckon you’ll find the life of a dairy cow is pretty short. Once their yields drop, it’s slaughterhouse time. Go to a dairy sometime (I lived on one for 12 years). You might learn.

Ness says:

11:03am | 15/02/12

humans are a plague

Andrew says:

11:25am | 15/02/12

Why are u still here then if u hate the human race so much.

prosperity says:

12:48pm | 15/02/12

Andrew:  I do not like the human race. The reason that I am still here is because I am on a study tour from Uranus.

You humans regard yourself as top-of-the-food-chain and the most intelligent creatures on this earth. Some of you believe that you may have even been created by some god or other.

Your history has been one of wars and destruction.  Now you are playing around with the atom.

Since the industrial revolution you have given yourselves over to rampant consumerism, clearing land and forests, drilling and mining on land and sea to satisfy your vociferous demand for resources.  Yet 98% of what you produce finishes up as waste.

You have killed thousands of animal and plant species and millions of hectares of land and forests with no knowledge, and even less care of the outcome regarding the biodiversity and environment of your planet.

You cull and kill animals and birds because they are in your way, or a nuisance - often because you introduced them in the wrong place.  Those you want to eat are often raised in harsh conditions and then killed cruelly.

Meanwhile, 925 million of your fellow humans are starving, and 16 thousand children will die this day of starvation.

If you were to grow alternate sources of protein, rather than graze beef cattle, there would be an ample supply of protein to feed the earth.

Fortunately, you humans are so foolish you are destroying the things on your planet that are essential for your own survival and so in time - and less than you may think - you will destroy yourselves. 

However, my report to the Uranian authorities may suggest that we do the job more quickly. Then your beautiful blue and green Planet Earth can recover from humankind and go on to provide for all the other things that do her no harm.

M says:

04:38pm | 15/02/12

You space nerds from another planet can stick that report up uranus.

iMitchy says:

12:50pm | 15/02/12

“We are not saying no one should eat meat, just that animals deserve better treatment”.

And what has “saying it” changed?

At least the people who are openly saying that they aren’t going to do anything about it and will continue to eat meat in spite of it are being honest. To themselves and to others.
It’s not that they enjoy cruelty, it’s just that they aren’t prepared to go out and stop it. They have other stuff going on.

Not eating meat and telling people you don’t like cruelty doesn’t stop cruelty. It does nothing. It’s a little bit hypocritical really because you aren’t prepared to go out and stop it either.

Ness says:

02:30pm | 15/02/12

@iMitchy - you are making assumption about how much people on here do or don’t do. You’re jumping to conclusion to make yourself sound superior, but it just makes you sound bigoted.

Obviously people who are out there “stopping” these terrible things would be talking about it as well. Are you suggesting that if we were actually doing anything we wouldn’t have the time to talk about it?? That makes no sense.

I don’t understand where I have been dishonest?? I don’t want to see animals suffer and have not lied about that once.

A hypocrite is one thing I am not. I understand that everyone has their reality, their own suffering. I have mine, you have yours. This doesn’t take much effort from the broader consuming community and doesn’t require much if any sacrifice on their part, particularly when you compare that with the pig or cow paying the ultimate price for your pleasure.

iMitchy says:

03:01pm | 15/02/12

Well said, it was an assumption, but at least it wasn’t the same arguement or comment.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, how active are you in the battle against animal cruelty in the food industry and what sort of tactics do you employ to tackle it?

And commenting on internet threads doesn’t count… : P

Finn says:

03:03pm | 15/02/12

Humans are also made of meat. Therefore, you’re valid food for any carnivore or omnivore - including humans.

Sharon says:

03:32pm | 15/02/12

And many humans are so cruel, ignorant and selfish.

Ness says:

02:33pm | 15/02/12

there are a hell of a lot of ignorant people out there how believe their pigs is happily splashing around in a mud bath in the sun until one day farmer bob comes along and pops him over the head. There’s a very different reality that most people would disagree with, if they only knew the suffering they were putting on their plate.

Sharon says:

12:39pm | 15/02/12

@JofE:  I’m assuming your comments are in jest.

If not, you have clearly highlighted the “ignorance is bliss” selfish attitude that many have in relation to the killing or suffering of sentient beings, which is is the whole point of this article.

I’m not aware of anyone whose stomach churns at the mere thought of a bus factory or vegie patch.

But of course, you must be joking.

Tim says:

01:02pm | 15/02/12

Exactly,
just because we’ve always put up with vegetarian whinging doesn’t mean we have to anymore.

Disco stu says:

08:43pm | 15/02/12

I’m not veg, I was more being philosophical. Could applied elsewhere, however, we may eat meat but haven’t alwYs on such a scale as now. Factory farming is new in human history, it may not be a good look at a future time .

Emilia says:

01:33pm | 15/02/12

I’m not arguing that it’s OK to eat meat as long you consider what happened to it first. I’m arguing that contemplation of what that meat involves is necessary in order to find our empathy as human beings.

For me, yes, that empathy for a quite a while now has meant I am a vegetarian. For others, it may mean valuing culturally prescribed forms of food (“a big juicy steak”) over an animal’s suffering. I don’t particularly understand that latter resolution, but I have more respect for it than I do for people who don’t ponder.

I also agree with you that we can’t change them all in a day (or maybe ever!) But surely informed consideration takes us one step closer to that ever elusive ideal world we all want, right?

In terms of solutions in the short term: I think we can all agree that there is something tragically wrong with the animal cruelty seen in these videos. I also think we can rationally recognise that the factory farming model isn’t working for animals, human health, or the environment. But that’s a whole other article right there…. !!!

DH says:

03:01pm | 15/02/12

Very true. It’s a great starting point for sure.

However, this all kicked up over the Indonesian footage and we got nowhere fast. I guess I’m just tired of waiting for the empathy to set in? And judging by the usual comments… well, I can’t see it happening anytime soon. I’m ready for the next, or a different, step. Trying something new.

Anyway, totally appreciate your point of view and the fact you’re talking about it. Can’t wait for that next article. ;o)

Sharon says:

10:57pm | 16/02/12

@DH:  agree with your assessment and share your despondency and frustration. BUT the animals need us to continue to make a stand, and they need us to be stronger. When I think about amazing people like Lyn White, and what she has endured for the past decade, I cannot give up. 

Our governments will continue to favour the economy over cruelty and exploitation of animals (human and non for that matter), unless we continue to make a stand, spread the compassionate word, and realise that nothing will ever change for the better if we give in.

Never give up the battle for compassion and peace.

“Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution.  Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ” ~Thomas A. Edison

TJ says:

02:12pm | 15/02/12

I’m sorry do you want me to go meet the cow I am going to have as a steak? go pick out the cow or chicken I want to eat? how will the animals know that we know they’re sufferring? do you want to start support groups for these animals that saw their friends turned into a nice juicy burger and they know they could be next?

Ness says:

03:54pm | 15/02/12

hit the nail on the head Emma! Face it, or you don’t deserve it. If you can look at that treatment and still eat meat then by all means eat it. But understand that you CAN change the quality of these animals lives just by buying cruelty free products.

Emmap says:

08:19pm | 15/02/12

TJ - I was making the point that It is incredibly stupid that those who choose to eat meat (and it is a choice, because the human body thrives on a plant-based diet - I am living proof of that) and cannot watch how the animals are treated and slaughtered (for instance, a doco like earthlings or the CCTV footage that is mentioned in this article) are hypocrites and despicable for not being able to acknowledge and watch the suffering, pain, grief and misery that THEY FUND. The next meat eater that tells me that ‘Well, I didn’t kill the cow’ will regret saying it, because you paid someone else to! If it’s possible, that’s worse! I am a great believer that ‘when you know better, you do better’ and I have come to realise that human beings (for the most part) are not cruel or indifferent to suffering. Which is why articles like this, sparking conversation - are so important. I feel very sad at the state of the world, when it is so easy to fix.

We torture and kill defenseless animals to eat their bodily secretions and flesh - which funds the meat and dairy industries who make contributions to political parties to make sure that their deadly products are able to be sold without restriction, are allowed to not test their meat for various diseases which are rife in factory farms, are able to use the meat from ‘downer animals’ (animals that are too weak and/or sick to walk to slaughter) in our food supply and are able to not label products properly. The Human beings who injest these products then get very, very sick, and then they have to buy from the big pharmaceutical companies because of their sickness brought on by their diet - as well as the medical industry, whose nutritional training in medical school is funded by the meat and dairy industries - meanwhile the planet is sick and there are millions of starving people who could eat the grain that is instead, used to fatten up animals used for food for already fat people. 

People, like myself, who preach about veganism (and animal welfare groups such as PETA and Animals Australia, among others) have nothing to gain by turning people vegan and/or making them more aware - as they are not for profit. There is not a conspiracy where all vegans own shares in soyabeans and we want to make lots of money so we encourage everyone to go Veg - wish the same could be said for the multi-billion dollar meat and dairy industries.

Would you listen to Pepsi or Coca Cola if they tried to tell you about the nutritional value of their food or how it is ‘natural’ and ‘good for the body’? No - because you would realise that they would be spouting this information to raise their profit margin - then why would you accept this information from the meat and dairy companies that are out to make a profit more than anyone else???

TJ says:

02:52pm | 15/02/12

I will buy whatever is cheaper thanks, I can’t afford top end produce

LilyT says:

03:23pm | 15/02/12

Yep, that’s you in a nutshell TJ.  “I want what I want and I don’t give a damn what or who suffers so I can have it.”  Nice attitude. I hope your gene pool is contaminated.

TJ says:

04:18pm | 15/02/12

nice LilyT - you kiss your mother with that mouth? there’s no need to get snippy with me, I cannot afford high end produce, how is that evil and translating to I don’t care who suffers? if you want to buy my food then go ahead and I will eat it gladly but don’t try to make me feel guilty for not having the money to buy ‘organic’

Sharon says:

05:51pm | 15/02/12

@TJ:  if it’s all about money for you, then in my years of experience, a plant-based diet is actually cheaper than a meat-based one.  Nothing to do with organic or non.  The added bonus is that a well-balanced vego diet is better for our health and the environment. It’s all about education and choice.

Nathan Explosion says:

03:31pm | 15/02/12

The US farming and meat industry is incredibly different to Australia.

Shane* says:

03:59pm | 15/02/12

What about the environmental destruction caused by grain farming? Not to mention the slaughtered field mice, thrown without regard into combine harvesters?

Cows in Australia are by-and-large grass fed. The environmental impact is minor compared to grain production.

LilyT says:

11:23am | 16/02/12

Not any more, Nathan Explosion.  Factory farming is rife in this country, and our meat industry heavyweights throw their weight around just like in the the U.S..  Try watching Food Inc. and Forks over Knives.  Interesting stuff.

Shane, perhaps cows and sheep in Australia are by-and-large grass fed, but large tracts of land are cleared for their grazing and “production”, which has led to encroachment on undeveloped lands as well as clear cutting of forests, which in turn has lead to an increased rate of species extinction and a host of other environmental problems. And although it requires less land for the livestock, many millions of factory farmed animals in Australia are fed millions and millions of tonnes of grain.  Factory farming requires large quantities of feed and the growing of cereals for feed in turn requires substantial areas of land. It’s hardly rocket science.

PamelaB says:

05:14pm | 15/02/12

People, let’s try and change something that’s been done for thousands of years!!  Do we not have the capacity as a supposedly intelligent life form to do that?

“The most damaging phrase in our language is: ‘It’s always been done that way.’” Rear Admiral Grace Hopper.

War, genocide, slavery, domestic violence, the rape of women, the sexual and mental abuse of children, the vilification of gay people,  foot binding, the mutilation of female genitals - just to name a few -  have been practiced by humans for a millennium.

The outrage, compassion and the ‘tears’ of minorities have changed and are still changing the above.

The dairy and meat industries are responsible for the majority of our global warming problems. Right this very minute, for this reason alone, the issue of factory farming should be catapulted with godspeed into the public forum and demands made of our governments. Right now our tears are needed to save the very planet we have our bums on.

I compel you all to contemplate the following:
“Animals are more than ever a test of our character, of mankind’s capacity for empathy, and for decent, honourable conduct and faithful stewardship.  We are called to treat them with kindness, not because they have rights or power or some claim to equality, but because they don’t.” - Matthew Scully.

If we can’t show love to these defenseless creatures how are we ever going to show the love to our fellow man that is needed to save our planet?

j burton says:

04:33pm | 15/02/12

Mmm. agreed. it seems the argument that people shouldn’t be allowed to torture animals before they are killed is a no-brainer. Except among the wacky posters above, who reckon because we are humans we should be able to do whatever the heck we like cos humans are supposed to eat meat. the odd thing is no one’s suggesting vegetarianism, just avoiding undue suffering.
why, if you choose to eat meat, should you also think it’s ok to torture an animal? most meat eaters wouldn’t want that, and the small number that do are sickos with serious head issues.

Sharon says:

11:09pm | 16/02/12

@Ridge: I respect your views and choices, but I am really curious about your decision to still consume meat. Is it because you like the taste, or because you believe you need it and your life can’t be sustained without it?Also, are there some animals you just could/would not eat, and why?  I seriously mean these as genuine questions to help me understand the rationale that different people apply, so I am hoping you will respond.

Ridge says:

10:48am | 20/02/12

@Sharon: The main reason I still consume meat is because it’s necessary for optimal health.  I realise I won’t die any time soon if I stop eating it, though.

I enjoy the taste, but that’s just a bonus.

I could eat any animal, mostly for dietary variation (read: health).  And having recently been to China, I’m sure I’ve eaten animals which I’d never even heard of before!

Hope that answers your questions.

marley says:

01:39pm | 16/02/12

Ripping out native plants and destroying the ecology to plant crops is environmental vandalism.  Ploughing fields should be treated as a crime.

Sharon says:

10:16pm | 16/02/12

@Marley:  we in the wealthy western world have a real choice to feed and clothe us ... plant-based wins over sentient animals for me. It may not be a no harm choice, but it certainly does cause less harm. Fact.

Sharon says:

10:23pm | 16/02/12

@Tess Peni:  it is great that you are following your conscience toward more humane choices .. I encourage you to keep your eyes wide open and do more research. Knowledge is power, and empathy and compassionate choices are the ultimate liberating goal, for you personally and the animals. The Animals Australia website is a wonderful starting point resource. Best wishes.

Eva says:

06:27pm | 22/02/12

I agree with consuming only free range dead animals, but the issue is not only how they are reared but how they are slaughtered. Once they’re at the abattoir they may have been raised in animal paradise and still are treated with cruelty during the slaughter. What can we do? Also, in Australia, no proper abattoir laws exist. Vets only check for health of the carcass which does not include the conditions in those places. Different in Europe!

Sharon says:

10:11pm | 16/02/12

@Molly:  all sounds very good except for the bits where you say “Don’t panic meat eaters (I am one too) ..” and then follow that with “I love all animals”. Huh?  You see, it is these kinds of oxymoronic statements that I just don’t understand. Please have the decency to be honest and admit that you “love all animals, except the ones I want to kill and eat (even though I really don’t need to)!”

Weary says:

12:54pm | 17/02/12

Molly.  We are wild animals.
Duh.
Back to the drawing board you go.

LilyT says:

01:07pm | 18/02/12

Molly, we’re all animals.  And I’d like to bet that if you and a lion came face to face and engaged in hand to hand combat, you’d come out second best.  Ditto a crocodile, hippo, wolf, bear, shark, orca whale and the list goes on.  Take away our weapons and we are FAR from the top of the food chain.

LC says:

09:27am | 17/02/12

Troll sense…tingling.

Zach Mc says:

03:10pm | 17/02/12

Averill, you’re retarded in more ways than one. Humanity is omnivorous. Which means that we require a diet consisting of both meat and vegetables.
Your boy requires meat. For the iron and protein that you get from it. It was also red-meat that allowed us to evolve.
And I’m sorry, but living on dietary supplements (Meaning of course, pills.) is not a healthy way to live. I’d like to also tell you that people who eat meat aren’t instantly going to live shorter lives. That’s bullshit, you’re more likely to die from Anaemia than I am from a heart attack. Generally you have to be pre-disposed. Or be over-weight. Or hundreds of other factors.
Fucking retard

Zach Mc says:

03:10pm | 17/02/12

Averill, you’re retarded in more ways than one. Humanity is omnivorous. Which means that we require a diet consisting of both meat and vegetables.
Your boy requires meat. For the iron and protein that you get from it. It was also red-meat that allowed us to evolve.
And I’m sorry, but living on dietary supplements (Meaning of course, pills.) is not a healthy way to live. I’d like to also tell you that people who eat meat aren’t instantly going to live shorter lives. That’s bullshit, you’re more likely to die from Anaemia than I am from a heart attack. Generally you have to be pre-disposed. Or be over-weight. Or hundreds of other factors.
Fucking retard

Sharon says:

04:26pm | 17/02/12

@Zach Mc: You have just highlighted your own ignorance, narrow-mindedness, and preference for abuse over intelligent debate. Perhaps it’s all the blood, flesh and chemicals in the meat?

Hopefully the editors will show that this site has some level of civility and remove your comments.

LilyT says:

01:02pm | 18/02/12

What Sharon said, Zach M.  Clearly you’re another of the ill-informed, ignorant knuckle-draggers who clearly have nothing more intelligent to add to this debate than chest beating of the “me man, me eat meat!” variety.

averill, you’re 100% right.  And I do believe that the situation against which you caution has already occurred and has been documented.

Sharon says:

03:53pm | 18/02/12

Sorry Molly, but I’m sick of reading and hearing the “I love animals” statement from people who continue to choose to eat them. So please choose your words more wisely in future.