It’s the electorate where the Howard era began in triumph and ended in farce.

Reward for effort: Lane and Jade Melrose shopping with their kids in South Penrith.

The electorate where “Trackie Dackie” Jackie Kelly was elected not once but twice in 1996, scoring a thumping by-election victory after being dudded out of office on a constitutional technicality. The electorate where Kelly’s dentist husband was implicated when a group of Liberal Party activists were photographed in the dead of night in 2007 distributing stooged, misspelt pamphlets reading “Alu Akbar” on behalf of a fictitious local Muslim group claiming Labor support for the construction of a mosque.

Lindsay, on the westernmost edge of Sydney at the foot of the Blue Mountains, was named after the artist, writer and bon vivant Norman Lindsay, who these days would probably be regarded as a weirdo in this proudly suburban, no bullshit seat where the biggest source of local entertainment is the Penrith Panthers Leagues Club, a venue so preposterously big that it can be seen from space.

In terms of demographics and income levels the area is comparable to Dandenong in Melbourne, Adelaide’s northern suburbs, a Brisbane satellite city such as Logan, combining sizeable public housing stock and welfare dependency, with proud, hard-working, lower-to-middle income mortgagees who are right on the edge of affording their own slice of the Australian home-ownership dream.

But in political terms, the key difference is that for the past 14 years Lindsay has been the venue for game-changing political upheavals.  John Howard is on the record as saying the Lindsay pamphlet scandal guaranteed him defeat in Bennelong. Julia Gillard is so worried about losing Lindsay that one of her first actions as Prime Minister was to ask the local member, David Bradbury, to join her on a naval exercise off the coast of Darwin, in a media event aimed at reassuring voters in his seat that the Government was not a soft touch on asylum seekers.

Coast is clear: Julia Gillard and David Bradbury all at sea last week. Photo: AAP

Before getting into the political landscape of the seat let’s hear from the couple in the above photograph - Lane Melrose, 28, who works as concreter, and his wife Jade Melrose, 26, who is busy at home raising their two young kids but would like to work if she could afford the childcare. I met them both yesterday at a South Penrith shopping centre where Jade had this to say:

A lot of people don’t really like Gillard. The way she got the job won’t help her. But in my view you should vote for the party not for the person. If you think about the party, and how they’ve gone since they got back in, it’s like they have been trying to stay in power by giving everybody handouts. We don’t need that. We are a young family, with just one of us working, because we can’t afford for me to work and pay childcare. There is no point me going to work because after childcare I would have $50 at the end of the week. Lane works five, six, sometimes seven days a week, it’s rare that we have this sort of time together like today to go shopping as a family, and you think, well, if we were on the dole and living in housing commission we would be getting it handed to us. It’s just backwards. There should be more reward for effort.

Jade says she doesn’t particularly think that asylum-seekers are the issue, more what she sees as the handout culture. But her husband Lane makes it clear that he sees asylum-seekers as being part of that same handout culture, and is offended that the government will come to the aid of people, at public expense, assisting those who he thinks have broken the law by arriving illegally.
 

There’s a lot of handouts being given out to all the people across Australia and a lot of support being given to asylum-seekers and what-not, and I honestly don’t believe that it’s fair. I know the sort of money that I am on, and then you see the sort of handouts that they get for coming to Australia and seeking asylum, and they often just start up their own old shit when they get over here. You know, we’re trying to pay for a house, trying to raise a family on one income, and then there’s people out there who rob the system…I don’t know much about politics, but I know what isn’t fair.

Jade and Lane Melrose were indicative of many of the people I spoke to in the seat yesterday. The recent media attention on the issue of asylum seekers in the seat – which is less affected by large populations of displaced peoples than others in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane – has led to sweeping claims of racism on the part of constituents.

With a couple of exceptions, it’s a bit more complicated than that. As the Melroses showed, it’s a working person’s sense that they are the ones who are doing all of the working, while others around them play the system to earn money through welfare, in amounts which probably isn’t a world away from their after-tax pay, especially once you’ve paid for petrol, groceries, the mortgage, books and toys for a couple of young kids. 

Since the election of the Hawke Government in 1983, Lindsay has been the suburban equivalent of the bellwether seat of Eden-Monaro, only ever won by the party of government. Former teacher Ross Free ran for the seat in 1975 and 1977 and won it in 1980 and held it through the Hawke-Keating era, serving as Science Minister and Schools and Vocational Education Minister, right up to the Howard landslide in 1996.

The seat was won that year by Jackie Kelly, whose candidacy was challenged by the ALP because, as a serving member of the RAAF, she held an office of profit under the Crown and could not legally nominate under the Constitution.

The ploy backfired spectacularly. Free had already been flogged at the general election with an 11.8 per cent swing to the Liberals. At the subsequent by-election, the vote swung another 5 per cent in their direction. “Jackie Kelly, we love you!” John Howard declared on the night of the by-election. The legend of the “Howard Battlers”, his beloved suburban aspirationists, was officially born.
 
Ross Free told The Punch that the decision by Labor head office to challenge Kelly’s candidacy in 1996 was “right in politics and wrong in law” and unwittingly paved the way for Howard to tighten his stranglehold on power.
Now retired in the Blue Mountains, Free feels that Jackie Kelly herself , who traded heavily on her tracksuited stylings to pitch herself as a knockabout local, played a damaging role in dumbing down the perception of his the seat.

My view is that Kelly was essentially a silly person and that she came to be wrongly seen as epitomising the seat. Howard got lucky in 1996. Her victory tended to enhance her position as some kind of talisman for Howard. And the good people of Lindsay tended to suffer for all that because of that sense that people like to imagine that electorates tend to reflect the style of the local member. In the darkest days of the Howard ascendancy there were a good proportion of people in Lindsay who did not share that style. A lot of what has been reported lately about Lindsay has been exaggerated. Journos can always get people to say silly things in vox pops. These are decent people. Battlers is an overworked phrase but in the old sense of the word it’s one I would use. They are working people who want to make the best lives for themselves and their kids and are outpriced of the real estate market closer to town. What the Liberals did out here in 2007 was a reflection on them, not the people of Lindsay. The air was black out here with chickens flocking home to roost. It demonstrated the utter shallowness of the Liberal machine out west. That episode should put those bastards out of business for a generation.

In Lindsay, the Howard ascendancy was also the Kelly ascendancy. It was the now sitting Labor member, former Penrith Mayor David Bradbury, who was derided by John Howard as “the identikit head office candidate” after losing badly to the earthy Kelly at the 2001 and 2004 polls.

Bradbury finally won the seat in 2007 in the heady and now-distant days of Kevin07. He must be worried now that if Kevin was a one-term PM, he might become a one-term MP. A Newspoll survey specifically focussed on Lindsay last month found that, with Rudd’s approval ratings in freefall and Abbott’s surging in his seat, Bradbury was facing a 12 per cent swing against him in the seat he holds by a 4.5 per cent margin. Which is goodnight nurse.

Newspoll, June 22, 2010. Source: The Australian

The replacement of Kevin Rudd with Julia Gillard will have altered that trend. But the other issue which Bradbury has to grapple with is the unpopularity of the NSW Labor Government, which recorded a miserable historic low in last month’s Penrith by-election with a primary vote of 25 per cent, albeit in an election clouded by proven corruption allegations against former state member Karyn Paluzzano.

This was the take of one Penrith resident on those issues yesterday, office worker Carol Collins, whose husband runs a small business:

I don’t think David Bradbury has got a hope just because of the way Labor has gone in NSW. David Bradbury is a really good local member, he’s a lovely man, he was a great mayor but I think they’re going to trounce him. It’s not because of the refugees or what happened to Kevin Rudd it’s just because of what’s been happening at the state level. We know people who work at the Nepean Hospital and we can see that there are just not enough people being employed there, not enough money being put in there. They’ve blown the whole lot.

In our conversation with Bradbury, he is at pains to do two things. He wants to quarantine state issues from the campaign, preferring to talk about successful local initiatives he’s involved with such as the Nepean Hospital redevelopment, the new commuter carpark at Penrith railway station, the construction of two new trades training centres. And he wants to downplay the extent to which the federal election is dominated locally by the asylum question, hoping that Gillard’s attempts to neutralise the population squeeze by declaring herself an opponent of “Big Australia”, and the tougher rhetoric she has taken on illegal boat arrivals, will be noticed in his seat.

Bradbury tells The Punch:

I wouldn’t say it (border protection) is the number one issue. It’s an important issue but there’s many other issues that are important issues to people. This is an area where the cost of living is always an important consideration in people’s minds, on the outskirts of Sydney where’s there’s a high dependence on motor vehicles, people with large mortgages that they have to pay. They are the bread and butter issues. Security of employment, having a job and being able to keep a job, knowing that your rights at work and your conditions at work are not going to be under threat, these are the issues which matter to people. (On state issues) the Liberals would like that to be the case but I think people in Penrith have been given their opportunity to express their view on the state of things in NSW.

For someone whom David Bradbury has labelled a “professional spin doctor” his Liberal opponent Fiona Scott is pretty raw. The 33-year-old former marketing manager has no political experience – but the Liberals are instead trying to bill her as a latter-day Jackie Kelly candidate, and hometown girl made good. Scott’s pedigree in the area is solid - anymore solid and she’d be playing second row for the Panthers. 

Born in Nepean hospital, she went to pre-school, primary school, high school in the areas, and also went to University of Western Sydney. Her grandfather started the automotive business in 1936 which her father now runs.

Last week NSW Opposition leader Barry O’Farrell was caught admitting to a journalist on Twitter that the Liberals were having trouble attracting candidates since “the ranga” became Prime Minister. The delay in process has also upset Tony Abbott. Scott attempts to put down the delays to the process of preselection within the Liberal Party. 

She tells us:

I haven’t spoken to Barry O’Farrell about these issues. What I am focussed on is getting out there and working really, really hard. This is the mortgage belt of Sydney. There are so many good Australian families out here that are really working as hard as they can to pay their mortgage and send their kids to school. To have seven interest rate rises in a row it hurts families, hurts hard working families, and unless the Government can reduce its debt and deficit and get out of swelling up all the money that is in the banking system we will not be able to bring interest rates down. They do care that our borders are safe, absolutely, but they do care also about what is important to them here in Lindsay.

Oddly, despite the fact that her boss Tony Abbott has listed it in the four-point plan which is running on high-rotation campaign advertisements, Fiona Scott tries to downplay the importance of border protection in the campaign. While accepting asylum seekers is an issue with some in the area, when asked whether race and immigration more generally is an issue she tells the Punch:

“I wouldn’t think that it is an issue in the area. As I said, these are good hard working people in Penrith. They are really focussed on the issues that affect them on a day-to-day basis.”

Fiona Scott obviously hasn’t met Kelly Cooper, 28, a cook and mother of three, having coffee at Gloria Jeans with three girlfriends, who also regard the asylum seeker question as not only pivotal, but indicative of the same handout culture the Melroses described at the start of this article.

Put it this way. I have asylum seekers living two streets away from me and when you see them driving around in a $30,000 car and wearing brand-new Versace and you look at them and think, hang on, we are paying through our taxes for them to be here, and you just think no way. Why should we be paying for them to be here? We can’t even afford to buy that sort of crap for ourselves. Mum knows the name of them, what are they called again? Sudanese. I don’t want to sound racist but they’re as rough as guts. There’s more boats now than there were before, definitely. We’re no good at controlling it. You hear about how they might die if we turn the boats around. They could have died anyway when they were coming here, they probably should have thought of that first. Send them home. We can’t even afford to do stuff for ourselves in this country at the moment so why should we do it for them? Simple as that.

We all grew up under the Howard Government and now I don’t know what sort of a choice we’ve got. Basically we’ve got a bloke who is forthcoming in admitting that he lies, versus a back-stabbing moll. What sort of a choice is that? She’s not even a real ranga – you could see it yesterday when she called the election that she had dyed her roots. You can’t trust her. Seriously, if she gets in, are we allowed to do to her what she just did to Kevin Rudd? It was one of the biggest dog acts I’ve ever seen.

I’m a cook and a mum. I’m straight-forward. I make take-away food and my husband works as an asphalter. We’re the normal people of Australia. I want a government that is looking out for us, not for people who think the world owes them a living.

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168 comments

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    • Jason CR says:

      10:23pm | 18/07/10

      Best to lead Labor in 3 Qld marginals (June 22)
      Rudd - 48%
      Red Emporer - 34%

      Queenslanders are waiting with baseball bats Jools - good luck.

    • Scot says:

      03:32pm | 19/07/10

      I am not voting for a caretaker Labor Prime Minister that stabbed in the back the PM that we voted for. The Gang of Four and the faceless men of Labor NSW, Vic and SA. What guarantees do we have that these men will not do the same thing again if they do not like any Labor PM. Just like they have done in NSW over 15 years and destroyed NSW into a third world state. The Nth Coast is a disaster area after 15 years of NSW Labor and Federal Labor have no long term plans for the Nth Coast.  The Greens have destroyed employment and are giving of their votes to Labor.

    • John A Neve says:

      06:56pm | 19/07/10

      Scot,
      What planet are you from?
      Nothing has changed in the actions of either Labor or Liberal in the last 20 years. They have stabbed the leaders in the back over and over again.
      A vote for either Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum is a vote for more of the same. Sad the way history repeats itself isn’t it?
      If you really what to change the way we are governed Scot, try voting Independent or one of the minor parties.

    • Christian Real says:

      08:30am | 20/07/10

      Scott
      Former Liberal Prime Minister John Gorton was rolled by William McMahon who then took over as Prime Minister in a party room spill.
      Scott, take of the blinkers, it happens in both the Liberal and Labor party’s.
      Do you live in Kevin Rudd’s electorate of Griffith in Queensland, Did you personally vote for Kevin Rudd?
      Only the people vote for each candidate in their own electorates that represents that political party.
      The Party, whether it is Liberal or Labor can call a party spill at any given time and replace the Prime Minister, with some else..

    • Rae says:

      07:54pm | 02/08/10

      Scott it is a very confronting scary idea that we may face more of the same.  Julia Gillard was acting Prime Minister for 3-4 months of the time Rudd was Prime Minister so what is the difference?  NONE They are destroying anything that they lay their grubby hands on so what next if JG loses popularity Bill Shorten?????

      Mt Druitt like Penrith looks as though it has been invaded,  someone mentioned this.  Welfare is a big issue,  migrants,  if we comment on this we are RED NECKS!  Please try living here and see all of the handouts!

      The Boat People are Economic Refugees where do they get the money? and how can they fly to Indonesia to get on a boat?

      I saw a programme tonight on Bangladesh how the poor people there are dying from contaminated water!  These people are the genuine refugees.

      Give us all a break,  please do not think we are not capable of deciding what is best for Australia!

    • James Nicolson says:

      03:47am | 19/07/10

      So you can see Penrith panthers league club from space, you can seen my garden shed from space, its called Google Earth. Perhaps you meant you can see it from space with the naked eye.

    • Tim Bennett says:

      02:31pm | 19/07/10

      I did the sums, and you could definitely see Panthers with the naked eye from space. Space officially starts at 100km above ground, and at that altitude anything larger than 29 metres across is visible to someone with 20/20 vision. (For those who are interested, google ‘arcminute’.)

      Of course, a LOT of other things fit that definition, too - including your local bowling club.

    • Alyssa KT says:

      04:22pm | 19/07/10

      Haha, James. I thought that too.
      Obviously Penrith Panthers isn’t actually visible from space (with the naked eye) at all.
      That content was as factual as I imagine the rest of the article may be…

    • Alyssa KT says:

      09:10am | 20/07/10

      You could see it Tim, but it wouldn’t look any different to the rest of the area… Actual definition would be required for it to count…

    • Brad of Bentleigh says:

      06:22am | 19/07/10

      I think the Asylum Seeker issue is overplayed somewhat… it’s certainly a factor out there, but not the deciding factor. One thing that could kill Labor in Lindsay and other such seats, is the fact that people simply don’t beleive them. JG is trying to spin her way out of hers and Kevin’s mess, and people know it. Being fake won’t win you any votes with this lot.

      I used to live near Campbelltown in Sydney’s west, and like Penrith, they have more than their fair share of immigraiton issues, but what will save Labor in these places, is the heavy reliance on social security. The ALP are seens as the hand-out mob, the desire to get their handout, trumps the outrage at watching some immigrant getting their own.

    • acotrel says:

      10:51pm | 19/07/10

      Statistics prove that the asylum seeker thing should really be a non-issue.  The trouble is that Tony Abbott has nothing constructive to offer.  So he’s had S Wcott Morrison full time drumming up business.  The most infamous person to use xenophobia as a political tool, shot himself in 1945.  Australia should look where it is going, Abbott is threat t o both humanity, and democracy!

    • Eric says:

      06:22am | 19/07/10

      The Labor Party has a deep-seated hatred and mistrust of working class Australians. This may well do them in.

      Less than a year ago the election looked unloseable. The latest poll shows a 50-50 split in the two-party preferred vote.

      Nobody believes a word Juila Gillard says. It’s the actions of Labor over the past three years that are coming back to haunt them.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      09:28am | 19/07/10

      You keep running with those Galaxy polls Eric. The same research polls that gave John Howard victory at the 2007 election and saw the demise of the Labor government in Qld just last year!

    • Jacob M says:

      10:25am | 19/07/10

      Lol Eric Labor is the working class, The Unions are the workers!!  The representatives are elected by us and simply state our views. The Liberal Party is for the rich and those wanna be rich and they are the ones with no conception of what we want. I don’t trust Abbott hes a liar and he will if elected bring back work choices. Then sit back Eric and watch this country come to a stand still. If you have any doubts, think back to the protests about Work Choices.

    • Macca says:

      11:18am | 19/07/10

      @Jacob M, the Workchoices protests were run by a bunch of corrupt Union Organisers whose outdated role in the Australian Workplace was finally being removed. It had nothing to do with the employees themselves, and if you don’t believe that, than you need to wake up to the lies of your local organiser

    • Mark N says:

      11:37am | 19/07/10

      Workchoices failed, not because it was not good (proof of its success was the employment levels of the day). Workchoices failed because the Trade Union Movement and its Political wing (the Labor Party), mounted a very successful campaign of scare tactics (my hat off to them here, they did very well), by singularly relying on the fact that most people did not understand what it meant.

      But the real reason was, that Union membership fell to 16% and under Workchoices, people recognised that Trade Union membership was not only irrelevant, but detrimental to their personal aspirations and ability to negotiate fair pay for work and skills.

      Today, we see Labor attempting to trawl it back up again as a “secret agenda” from within the Coalition. Unfortunately its not on there agenda and as TA said on Saturday, its “goneski”. But Labor will do there best to dredge it up and now TA has to shut it down once and for all.

      So the argument that Work Choices being bad is flawed. It was only bad for the Unions and as we all know, you cannot be a member of the Labor party unless you are a member of the Union movement.  The good news is, the Trade Union movement is scared again. We know this because of the BS ads which are surfacing on Workchoices.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      12:14pm | 19/07/10

      Mark N
      The intended scrapping of penalty rates under Workchoices legislation was good for whom? As a worker who relies on weekend penalty rates I can guarantee unequivocally that they were not in my or my family’s interest.
      I also noted on the Today show this morning that Tony Abbott has not completely dispelled returning to aspects of the Workchoices legislation. When pressed over his continuing refusal to answer the question Lisa Wilkinson moved onto another question. In fact Tony pretty well avoided answering any of the questions put to him. He will need to communicate a lot better than that and forget the negative attacks if he wants the electorate to take him seriously. He seemed a little perplexed and preoccupied by the polling that showed his leadership and the coalition falling in voter approval. And after his efforts today he certainly hasn’t helped his stocks.

    • Tails says:

      04:52pm | 19/07/10

      Evan - As a worker who relies on penalty rates, you sure spend a sh**load of time p***ing about on the internet.

    • The King says:

      05:19pm | 19/07/10

      Gold Tails!

    • Evan Findlay says:

      06:08pm | 19/07/10

      Tails,
      Just so you are aware today is Monday, a day that you should probably be at work. But Mondays are my Saturdays, hence it is the start of my weekend. And what I do on my weekends is my business. It’s good to see you wasting your employers time on the net though!

    • Vote lib,and vote often says:

      05:10am | 20/07/10

      @Eric,People have woken up to Labor,the constant barrage against the now assassinated other bloke by libs got rid of him,now for red,Gillard appeals to those who dont think,the systemic hate against against Labor is no more evident than in WA which will regardless of ranting from advertising and salesman will be their end,Penrith is a bonus and it is the tip of the iceberg,the spoiler is the greens,also despised and thanks to recent treatment of said leader of wa greens,whoever she was, shows the electorate has simplified their expectations of pollies and expect some substance, not media bites and photo ops with babies,as an aside my power bill has doubled under labor in under 3 years,I wonder if the Dullard supporters will appreciate it will double again in another 3,all to repay waste
      Labor and Greens are in for a nasty surprise in the west, the wa electorate is not in the mood for their bulls…

    • Front Up says:

      07:45pm | 21/07/10

      Eric,
      If you’re not first to respond, that means the people above you are on the payroll - the mongrels from all sides of politics who would misrepresent themselves in this public forum.
      How’s the late afternoon shift, folks?
      Just think, if Steven Conroy gets his way, you won’t have a job next time. They’ll just shut it down.

    • Badger says:

      02:10pm | 19/07/10

      Are “The Goons” How well I remember them and their humor back in the 50ts every sunday night around the Wireless, as we called it then.

      What about ” He’s Fallen In The Water” statement, and I think Joolyah has also, and is over her head.

      She may have spent too much time with that Pariah of a Litigating Company on Society, a few years ago, before getting into Politics learning all the wrong tricks, and picking up that—S L O W—- D R A W L—  of hers that is so irritating to the ear.

      On Pike Milligan’s Head Stone ( Goon Specialist Writer and Actor)  the epitaph was
              ” I TOLD YOU I WAS SICK “
      And Wonderful ending for the Labor Party also.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:32am | 19/07/10

      The labor government has shown that they don’t care about the average Australian. What does Gillard know about working families? Asylum seeker debacles, insulation deaths of Australian civilians, back stabbing of her boss, union puppet, no strong policies, lots of wastage of tax payer monies, health care that is all about spending and not actually helping people with illness etc. Gillard need to be chucked out for the sake of Australian families who work hard and want a government that governs.

    • Roja says:

      11:13am | 19/07/10

      Tampa Crisis, AWB Cover Up, Work Choices, Failure to Consult, Telstra Failure, Sol Trujillo, Neglected Infrastucture, Selling everything that wasn’t nailed down, Rising Interest rates, Health Care failures, Refusal to spend money, 50’s values and so on. 

      Sorry mate, more than half the people haven’t forgotten the sins of Howard either.  You may remember just the good times, but the important people haven’t.  It’s close, maybe 2013 is a bit more realistic for you.

    • Martin G says:

      12:19pm | 19/07/10

      Roja, you appear to be living well in the past, which is rather strange since your great leader is insistent on her ‘moving forward’ mantra.

      Did you forget Howard has been gone for 3 years???

    • Beagle says:

      01:45pm | 19/07/10

      @Martin G - We won’t forget until the Abbott, Bishop and all the other Howard acolytes have left the room.

    • TC says:

      02:10pm | 19/07/10

      Cigarettes. Booze. Food. Electricity. Water. Gas.

      All double digit increases by your worker friendly Labor Party.

    • Beagle says:

      03:21pm | 19/07/10

      @ TC -West Australia - Liberal government
      Electricity charges, which rose 26.5 per cent last year, will increase by 18.25 per cent this year.
      Water usage charges will increase by nearly 40 per cent this year,
      Gas prices increase 7 percent so far this year.

    • WayneT says:

      04:35pm | 19/07/10

      @ Beagle - That’s because these are the real costs of providing these utilities.  The former state Labor government kept them unrealistically subsidised for 12 years so as not to attract the ire of the voting public.  At least someone has had the guts to pass on the real cost so that our public money can be spent elsewhere.  One of the real benefits has been with people looking at how they have used these utilities in the past.  I’ve personally reduced my water wastage and don’t leave appliances or excess lighting on any longer.  And feedback back from family and friends seems to indicate the same.  If we all had to pay the real cost of providing these services then I think we would all be a lot more respectful and conscientious about them.  So it’s not all bad.

    • Beagle says:

      04:53pm | 19/07/10

      @ WayneT -

      “so that our public money can be spent elsewhere”
      You must be talking about the 2,600,000,000 (billion dollar) down-payment for the Nationals support to get into government.

      “One of the real benefits has been with people looking at how they have used these utilities in the past” Guess you are a lib who is actually for an emissions trading scheme. Good to see.

    • WayneT says:

      07:12pm | 19/07/10

      @ Beagle - And what will it cost the country for Labor to buy the Green vote to get them over the line federally?

    • Beagle says:

      08:30pm | 19/07/10

      @ WayneT - Compared to having a Liberal government , any price would be a fair price.

      Having said that, they will probably have to soften their stance on asylum seekers and put a price on carbon with a reasonable reduction in emission targets. Something that should be done by either party anyway.

    • BK says:

      07:42am | 19/07/10

      It is only journalists who call these people “battlers.” I’ve never heard anyone refer to themself as a battler. Please stop using the phrase. They call themselves “workers” so that is the phrase that others should use. Its just good manners.

    • alison says:

      07:58am | 19/07/10

      what like hard working families ... give us a break Rudd never could define and working family and gillard won’t give you a definition of a ‘hard working family’ either

      with the labor party you are only a working family is you and your partner earn less than $100,000 combined any more than that and you are a rich bastard ...

    • James1 says:

      10:24am | 19/07/10

      A family earning more than $100 000 can hardly be said to be struggling, alison.  I am having some trouble understanding your point.

    • Phil says:

      11:12am | 19/07/10

      James 1. I work very hard as does my wife, and we are able to bring in well in excess of $ 100,000, but still have are not exactly flying financially. Sure I could trim back some extras, but $ 100,000 before tax is hardly rich.

      If you or others think $100,000 is rich, may I suggest deleting your vow of poverty and under achievment and in the words of your great leader, move forward, be that to a better job, harder work perhaps overtime, start your own business then you too could in your words be rich.

      To buy a home anywhere in Sydney requires a $ 3-400,000 mortgage at minimum, repayments at least $6-700 a week after tax, if you are to live on double this amount all up you are on close to or exceeding $100K.

    • Who says:

      12:09pm | 19/07/10

      Phil,
      Like you my wife and I are also on over $100,000.  However, unlike you we are “flying financially” and we have purchased a property well in excess of 3-400k.  Living on that sort of money is exceptionally easy; perhaps you need to manage your money properly!

    • AdamC says:

      12:36pm | 19/07/10

      My partner and I live reasonably comfortably on our combined income (which would be quite a bit over 100k in aggregate). The main determinant of living standards in Australia though, at least as much as one’s income, is one’s age and status as a homeowner. For example, a couple on the same income as ours but who are, say, ten years older than us and bought a place in 1999 or 2000, would have a vastly higher disposable income than we do.

      This is due to the rapid increase, relative to income, in the cost of housing over the last ten years. Housing affordability must be a hot-button issue out there in punter land, as much as it often downplayed or over-simplified in the media.

    • Macca says:

      01:54pm | 19/07/10

      @AdamC, that is a very good point. My partner and I, in our mid 20s, have a combined income of close to $120K before tax. However, regardless of ow much penny pinching we do, we are highly unlikely to ever afford a house above $450K. this is the responsible amount we can borrow when we factor in potential (inevitable?) interest rate rises.
      That sounds like a lot of money, however, the price of an average sydney home is well above $500K.

      I don’t want to have a whinge, we all know Gen-Y do enough of that already

      To Paraphrase, if you are just entering the Melbourne, Sydney or Perth Housing Markets, and you have a household income of $100K, you are not rich

    • James1 says:

      04:31pm | 19/07/10

      My point was, Phil, that I earn considerably less than $100 000 a year, and I support a family, study for my PhD, and we want for nothing.  You seriously do need to do some “trimming” if you struggle on $100,000.  If you read my post, I did not say that you would qualify as rich, but if you are struggling, it is entirely you own fault, so you will excuse me if I have no sympathy for your “plight”.  If I manage not to struggle on a third of what you have, you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

    • Old Clive says:

      08:17am | 19/07/10

      What sane person would believe in Foolya Joolya, a lawyer a profression that follows laws not justice, a politician with no beliefs except power, that is why her own ministers would not serve under her, she must be taking a heap of personal beauticians and fashion experts with her as well as advisors, you must admit she has changed her appearance since she became a backstabber, she must have also bribed all the pollsters as I have not met anyone who is happy with her, I can’t see her visiting Hillsong or giving church door stop interviews, perhaps gay bar or green meetings may be more likely, enough said. Persophone where are you.

    • coxie says:

      09:14am | 19/07/10

      Old Clive, as Sum Won might have said, , “I’m wid due”.

    • James1 says:

      10:26am | 19/07/10

      John Howard was a lawyer.

    • Roja says:

      12:06pm | 19/07/10

      I hope she doesn’t visit Hillsong, thats a very odd inference… as for being a lawyer, are you aware that is a very common profession for most politicians? 

      Did you watch the movie “any which way but loose” and think Clint was talking to you?  It would explain a lot…

    • Bri says:

      08:21am | 19/07/10

      It’s sad, because I am a Labor voter and proud of it and I admit Labor have made alot of mistakes - one of those backstabbing Rudd, which has nearly changed my mind. But the handouts issue - if they didn’t hand out any money (and they handed out a hell of alot to working families too) everyone would have been up in arms that they had all this money there but werent helping people through the tough times and we would most likely be in a recession and be just as screwed as America is at the moment. But honestly, I cannot see myself voting for Tony Abbott & The Liberals. He is a Christian conservative wackjob who will take this country back to the 1950’s, he hates women with a passion, hates gays and believes the bible should be mandatory study in school. And seriously, do any of YOU remember the decade of the Howard Dictatorship?

    • TrueOz says:

      09:08am | 19/07/10

      Ah yes, the Howard dictatorship…

      Wasn’t that the most prolonged period of economic growth and prosperity in Australian history?

      So easy to differentiate from the reign of Chairman Rudd…

      Didn’t he orchestrate the most pointless spend-a-thon in Australian history, achieving – well - nothing?

      But who knows, perhaps Comrade Joolya might be able to outdo the Chairman. Afterall, people like you are allowed to vote.

    • Bearded Spock says:

      09:14am | 19/07/10

      Nope, I don’t remember the “Howard Dictatorship”. Or any of those other things you imagined.

      In my universe, John Howard was democratically elected, and democratically dismissed. Unlike one Julia Gillard ...

    • Dash says:

      09:18am | 19/07/10

      Bri, it’s not a question of handing out money, it’s the way they did it. We’ve not one major capital work to show for the blown surplus and record foreign debt Labor has racked up! And it’s also the way they turned a surplus of $11billion into a defecit of $40.4billion in about a half an hour. Then there is the waste of taxpayers money on the insulation fiasco which is still costing the taxpayer and the rorting of taxpayers money under the school scheme. Then you can add all of the broken promises, fuelwatch, grocery choice, 206 childcare facilities not delivered, the ETS backflip, the profits tax backflip, laptops still not delivered, the green loans shambles, the promise not to touch the private health tax rebate, etc etc. Don’t swallow the Labor rubbish about taking us back to the 50s thats just nonsense. As for hating women, Abbott has a wife and two daughters! That’s a stupid thing to say. That would be like saying Gillard hates men because she’s not married or doesn’t know a thing about working families because she’s chosen not to have one! The bible wont become mandatory in schools Bri, but if you get Labor, your internet will be censored! Yes, I remember the Howard era, we had full employment, surplus budgets, we’d paid off Labor’s foreign debt, and it was arguably the most prosperous era in Australian history. Oh and dictators are not democratically elected Bri, remind me how Gillard came to be PM??

    • Lucius says:

      09:18am | 19/07/10

      Ah yes TrueOz, It’s not like the Howard Government were the highest taxing government in the nation’s history and hoarded billions of taxpayers dollars for the laughable “future fund”, and let’s not forget the massive lack of investing into Australia’s infrastructure, oh and how much did Tony Abbott invest in health again as one of Howard’s minsters, please tell me TrueOz, I do believe it has skipped my mind.. oh and should I dare mention *whispers* ... WorkChoices?

    • Luke4 says:

      10:06am | 19/07/10

      Lucius - yeh I reckon the Howard Government should have spent all the surplas and future fund on infrastructure and then seen how the Rudd/Gillard Government would have faired steering us through the GFC.

    • Dash says:

      10:20am | 19/07/10

      Lucius, Labor turned an $11billion surplus into a $40.4billion defecit. And they have racked up record levels of foreign debt. Tell me, what infrastructure do we have to show for that? None! The NBN cost has continued to blow out and it’s yet to be delivered. The health plan relies on Labor states handing over GST (remember “rollback” where did that go?). As for tax, the “root and branch” overhaul where is it? And while you’re at it, where’s my L.A.W tax cuts?? Oh that’s right, it took the Howard government to deliver those! As for health and education, what have the Labor states done with all of their GST revenue?? As for workchoices, unemployment has gone up since Labor came into office, so much for their IR laws! This Labor government has delivered nothing but failure and rorts. Time for them to go!

    • Nicole says:

      11:33am | 19/07/10

      Those handouts were the biggest waste of money I’ve seen. That money was not a gift, so who do you think is going to be paying it all back?

    • Roja says:

      12:22pm | 19/07/10

      Can people be a little more specific when talking about handouts, I’m getting confused.  I mean there were the labor handouts to compensate for the GFC, which were paid for economic reasons in the first year of their 3 year term.  Then we had the regular liberal party hand outs that occured like clockwork every election year, for political reasons.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      01:16pm | 19/07/10

      @ Dash says: 09:18am | 19/07/10
      The current Govt has set aside $800 million in the current budget ,that is, nearly $1,000,000 (1 billion dollars) to deal with the insulation fiasco and that doesn’t include any money to fight the class action that the legitimate insulators’ will bring against the Govt. 
      I can’t believe that anyone would find this acceptable and vote for a Govt whose deficit is partially as a result of sheer incompetence and sheer waste.

    • KH says:

      01:40pm | 19/07/10

      TrueOz - stop dreaming.  Australia was not responsible for the global economic situation, either then or now, good or bad - it isn’t big enough, and never will be.  We are at the mercy of much larger economies than ourselves, and all we can do is ride the wave and try not to sink.  It is not Howard’s doing that things were going so well globally.  It is hardly Labor’s fault that a bunch of idiots trading in worthless pieces of paper nearly destroyed everyone.  Anyone who has even read the smallest amount about the great depression knows that shutting up shop and not spending was the road to disaster when a similar situation came about in the 1920s - today, the government did what it had to do to prevent a slide into oblivion, learning from history.  That is the way it is, and its the way most countries survived, not just us.  If they had done nothing, I’m sure you would all be complaining about being unemployed and losing your houses.

      As for all the ‘backstabber’ talk - name one leader of either party who got the job because (a) they were a ‘good bloke’ (and lets face it, it is mostly men), (b) applied for the job on seek.com.au and were deemed the best candidate, or (c) got it because they were the best most brilliant member of the party and had ‘earned’ it.  Ha! The answer is none.  They all backstab, they all jockey for position behind the scenes.  They all ‘count numbers’ and make backhand deals for jobs.  They all cultivate friends and screw their enemies.  Politics is a vicious game for vicious people.  Here is a short list off the top of my head of some who have been done royally by politics: John Hewson, Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull, Mark Latham, Kim Beazley, Alexander Downer, Andrew Peacock.  That is just what I remember, without looking it up.  Each and every one got the job by kicking out someone else.  Each was replaced because they weren’t popular or couldn’t/didn’t win.
      I don’t see how this situation is any different than the usual.

    • TrueOz says:

      10:06pm | 19/07/10

      @KH

      Seems like you’ve been reading the same economic garbage as KRudd did, making you just as economically illiterate as him and his (now her) band of air thieves in Canberra.

      By the way, I never gave Howard credit for anything. I simply made an observation about the contrast in the conditions under which we have lived with these two different governments. I personally think that history will judge both Howard and Costello harshly for their actions. Finance fuelled prosperity always comes at a significant cost.

      KRudd was just so ignorant that he forced the nation to take the hair of the dog as a cure to its ills. Joolya helped him. Abbott is just as big an economic illiterate as anyone just mentioned. It doesn’t really matter who gets elected, the scene is already set for what is to follow. It’s now just a matter of who the lead characters in the next (disastrous) scene will be.

    • Mick D says:

      08:58am | 19/07/10

      Funny how the boats are the indicator of immigration.  Tony’s going to stop the boats but who is going to stop the planes?

    • Albert Einstein says:

      09:29am | 19/07/10

      It’s not about immigration. It’s about border control.

      The planes are controlled, the boats are not.

      Suburban people can understand this distinction, but it seems beyond the mental capacity of our intellectual elites.

    • Macca says:

      09:41am | 19/07/10

      @Mick D, I think, for the people of Lindsay, those who arrive in this country by plane are more likely to be able to provide for themselves (i.e. have come for a working / extended holiday) compared to those that have arrived on boats who are reliant on Government assistance. I’m not condoning that belief, I’m just saying that for the people of Lindsay that is there concern.

    • Gregg says:

      09:44am | 19/07/10

      You know what they say Mick?
      Simple thought, simple mind and if you can get your head around immigration being a separate topic to people smuggling of supposed legitimate asylum seekers you may be moving forward.

    • Daryl says:

      09:02am | 19/07/10

      So first poll says more people will vote LNP but we’ll get Labor on preferences! So much for democracy! My advice would be to turn off the telly, don’t read the papers and make your mind up on the performance of this Labor party over the last three years. And if you hear Labor promise anything, remember the 200+ childcare facilities, fuelwatch, grocery choice, more affordable housing, public control of hospitals by July 2009 and “I’ll turn the boats around” promises which they didn’t deliver from the last election. Vote greens you get Labor. Everyone makes mistakes, but to vote Labor in again is making it twice!

    • rhys says:

      01:15pm | 19/07/10

      You dont’ understand preferential voting do you?

      Preferences are just that, those people that vote for a loser get a chance to essentially change their mind and vote for the next person they would prefer.

      You are also free to vote greens and preference Libs, it’s just that in practice a very small percentage actually do that.

    • Daryl says:

      04:58pm | 19/07/10

      Thanks Rhys, but I do understand it. There are two parties that have a realistic chance of running the place and the one with the most primary votes may not win. Just making the point that less people may vote Labor than Liberal but we could get Labor. Perhaps first past the post is a better system?

    • antman says:

      04:50pm | 20/07/10

      Daryl, do you mean like in ‘98 when the Howard-led Coalition won government with less of the primary (39:40) and 2PP (49:51) vote than the ALP?

    • corso cowboy says:

      09:25am | 19/07/10

      Of course Ross Free neglected to tell you along the way he may also have had “an office of profit under the Crown” when he was elected. He was employed by the NSW Education Dept. When it was revealed back in the (second) Jackie Kelly by-election the NSW Labor Party prevented the media from getting confirmation of the information by refusing a Freedom of Information request. I am not surprised he was reluctant to initiate the by election challenge!

    • RM52 says:

      09:30am | 19/07/10

      forward, forward, forward, if this is the ALP version of forward leave me out .I have made this comment before but for what it is worth here it is again , they can win the occasional election but they simply cannot run the joint . If i hear moving forward used, not as an advertising slogan, but a government policy I will vomit. Roll on polling day so I can help this shambolic mob out the door.

    • Zeta says:

      09:30am | 19/07/10

      I read a metric-shit-tonne of politcal commentary each day, and that was the best of the election so far. +1 Internets to you sir.

    • Sarah says:

      09:35am | 19/07/10

      Maybe if Kelly Cooper didn’t go to Gloria Jeans and pay $5.25 for the same coffee she could have elsewhere for $3, she’d have more money and less reason to whinge about how unfair life is.
      Politicians have realised that it’s hard to argue with fools, so that’s why they’re not paid much attention.

    • James1 says:

      10:31am | 19/07/10

      Or she could go to university like so many of the Sudanese refugees I know.

    • Barrie says:

      09:47am | 19/07/10

      Whenever government spokespersons go backwards in bringing forward the subject of Tony Abbott’s dead and buried previous coalition work place relations error, he might do better to remind them and us of the disgraceful incompetence that brought about the hatchet job on Rudd. 

      They are covering their disgraceful record by referring to an out-dated policy issue.  Is he going to spend the entire campaign rebutting their backwards references to workchoices, or is he going to use reply time to tell us how his policies will return border security, fiscal responsibility and save us from shadowy union thugs interfering in our political system.

      The public are easily fooled because we have scandalously short memories.  A picture of a spinster kissing a baby should not be permitted to defocus the issues that put Miss Gillard where she undeservedly is.  Such as her proven incompetence, the four Australian lives lost,  Australians living under electrified ceilings, the Timor nonsense, Gillard’s portfolio education mess, where are the laptops, her unequivocal support for the man she humiliated nationally and globally, her untrustworthy attachment to union heavies, etc.  The list is endless.  Get it out.

    • Boundary Rider says:

      09:58am | 19/07/10

      They only have themselves to blame for their “big mortgages”. They could have easily gotten a 3br fibro house in Penriff but of course they have to go for the McMansion and extend themselves beyond their capacity.

      Then they have the hide to turn around and call themselves “battlers” and workers blah blah and complain about people having it easy. Try living in a war-torn country and you’ll whine about that never again and you’ll appreciate what you have even more.

      I find it funny that she doesn’t work because even with the HAND-OUTS they get with childcare she’d only be $50 better off per week. That’s $50 you never had and some of that was a HAND-OUT!

      It’s depressing that the fate of a nation is in the hands of people like this.

      My seat is Wentworth and while traditionally it has been a Liberal heartland this year it may not be after a redistribution that included areas in it like Woolloomooloo, Potts Point and Darlinghurst. Maybe Malcolm will go down.

      I don’t want to see Phony Rabbit get in and start slashing services like the Libs always do. Not only is that the worst thing you can do in the midst of a fragile economy on the verge of global recession but we need these services. It’s the slashing of these services under the Liberals for 11 years that we find ourselves with broken hospitals, broken roads, broken schools etc

    • Red says:

      10:37am | 19/07/10

      “It’s the slashing of these services under the Liberals for 11 years that we find ourselves with broken hospitals, broken roads, broken schools etc “

      Ummmm… we have had a Labor govt in NSW (you’re in Wentworth) for the last 11 years. No Liberals in power. Have you been awake?
      Maybe you’ll blame the State Govt for the defence budget too?

    • Dash says:

      11:14am | 19/07/10

      What a load of bull! What has NSW Labor done for roads, schools and hospitals since they have been in power? They are the cause of the mess in the state services. Howard introduced the GST and handed it all over to the Labor states. You cannot blame the Federal Liberal party for how the States have chosen to use that increased funding. Now these clowns have given part of it away to Rudd who’s party has wasted and rorted money like it’s going out of style! Federal Labor is running a $40.4b defecit and have not built one road, or one hospital. In fact we have not one major capital work for the record defecit they’ve delivered. In 3 years they’ve done nothing but waste billions and allow taxpayers money to be rorted.

    • Macca says:

      11:30am | 19/07/10

      @Boundary Rider: “I find it funny that she doesn’t work because even with the HAND-OUTS they get with childcare she’d only be $50 better off per week. That’s $50 you never had and some of that was a HAND-OUT!”

      I actually think the $50 is the income she would have remaining after spending the rest of it on ChildCare for her kids. It has nothing to do with Handouts. The high cost of Childcare could also be attributed to the Rudd / Gillard Government’s failed promise to create more childcare centres. Simple supply & demand really, the lack of supply has forced the price up, making it financially unviable for young Jade to return to work after the birth of her children.

      The ironic part of your post is that the Howard Government provided incentives for parents to return to work, and this was in the form of handouts and Fringe Tax Benefits.

      However, if the ultimate question is whether the Rudd / Gillard government have implemented policies that have enabled mothers to return to work after the birth of their children, the answer is no.

    • Nicole says:

      11:42am | 19/07/10

      Boundary Rider, there’s no way known that I’d put my kids in childcare, be separated from them all week, stress myself and my family to the brink and try and juggle work and home all for $50 bucks either. I’m tipping you don’t have kids.

    • Boundary Rider says:

      12:37pm | 19/07/10

      @Red
      Under the Grants Power in the Constitution the States rely heavily on Federal funding. They don’t have the funds to do anything. The States are in a shambles because they simply haven’t had the money.

      @Dash
      The GST unfairly disadvantages NSW. More people and a large physical size but not a greater portion of funding out of the GST pie. NSW has been constrained since the GST carve-up began. That’s why we still have high levels of stamp duty.

      Labor ran a deficit budget to stave off the GFC and did it brilliantly. Deficit is only 6% of total economy. They did build a lot of things but considering it only started the projects in 2008 I would hardly expect them to be completed by now. The metro was to take about 25 years. Expecting results this quickly is absurd.

      @Macca and @Nicole
      It’s ironic that the family in the article complain about handouts when middle-class welfare skyrocketed under Howard and they don’t like welfare (apparently) but will use it when it suits them - then snub their nose at other people receiving welfare (like the last “moll” that was quoted). You can’t have it both ways.

      Rudd had to scrap the childcare centres once the GFC hit and had to use the money to quickly prop up the economy. If this had not occurred then you can guarantee both of them would be unemployed.

    • Macca says:

      02:01pm | 19/07/10

      @Boundary Rider, at no point in the article does it mention they use benefits. Are you personally aware of how they do their tax?

      As for allowing the childcare centres to go out of business… ah, they actually employ people too, and its not as if the Rudd government wasn’t happy to throw an extra few billion around to prop up the economy, as you yourself just mentioned.

      To blame the GFC for any of the governments failed promises at the last election is a pathetic smokescreen

    • Hermoine says:

      03:24pm | 19/07/10

      Boundary Rider, there are very few 3br fibro houses in Penrith.  There are 3 br brick veneer… but few 3 br fibro.  How do you know they’ve gone for a McMansion; many houses in Penrith are typical suburban houses.  Well, mine is as is most of my suburb…and the suburb next to us…and the suburb next to us….

    • Zap Brannigan says:

      10:43am | 18/08/10

      Haven’t seen terribly many ‘reasonably priced’ 3 bedroom fibro houses on the market of late.  Those that are habitable are pretty close to the ‘mcmansion’ price range…  Ah well, maybe as part of our civic duty, those of us looking to buy should overextend ourselves with a ‘renovator’s delight’ just to keep the jobs in the building industry…

    • AdamC says:

      09:59am | 19/07/10

      The comments about hand-outs are interesting. It seems that the number of people who decry the extent of entitlement mentality in this country are counter-balanced by the number of people who are dependent on, or otherwise like, the hand-outs. The end result are successive governments who increase the amount of hand-outs, while trying to convince everyone they are interested in personal responsibility.

    • Gazza says:

      10:47am | 19/07/10

      It will indeed be a tight election.
      Generally elections are won and lost on the popularity of the PM and not the party people voted for Kevin 07 not the ALP. Similar with Gillard people are voting for the first female PM. But to counter Gillard popularity is QLD and NSW. The Penrith by election smashed the ALP with a 24% swing against similar losses will be felt across NSW and QLD area. The ALP are on the nose in both states and the ALP will suffer big loses. But if they can retain thier safe seats, lose the marginals and pick up in TAS, SA and VIC and the Green preferences it should see them through. What you really have to look at is the bookies they rarely get it wrong and have Labor well in front

    • BMJ says:

      10:57am | 19/07/10

      I just can’t understand why people from Penrith are so picky about handouts when Penrith and western Sydney in general is handout central. If they shifted 5% of their focus from asylum seekers to their own dependence on welfare then Penrith would be a better place for it.

    • Lauren says:

      10:59am | 19/07/10

      I see all these polls and become really concerned about our future, but then I read these comments and my spirits are lifted somewhat - it seems those who are paying attention and have educated themselves on the issues and Labor’s record have concluded that Labor is a massive, capital F - Fail. It would be really difficult for anyone who is interested and informed in politics to defend Labor’s performance over the last 3 years (or suggest that things could possibly change with Gillard in charge). Such a shame that a large portion of our society only pay attention when they are cashing a $900 handout or when the PM turns up on FM radio cracking jokes….. It’s so easy to believe Tony Abbott is a woman hating, bible bashing loony…. but even if that was the case (which it’s not - he has three daughters, is arguing for a better paid parental leave than Labor and only ever talks about his religion when hounded by journos) I would rather that, than a government who promises the world, delivers nothing and spends every dollar we have, leaving nothing to show for it.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      11:00am | 19/07/10

      Gotta love that last quote “I don’t want to SEEM racist but….” its even more thinly veiled than “I’m not racist but…” and of course, the fact the prime minister is not a “real ranga” is such an important voting issue..

    • Macca says:

      11:35am | 19/07/10

      Even less of an issue than the fact she is a women… I have friends (I’m in early 20s, most friends working with disposable income whilst living at home, its a hard life) who will vote for Gillard purely on the basis she is a women.

      let us say 1 in 20 women follow this ‘logic’, that means Tony Abbott is already 2.5% behind in the polls. I doubt the Catholics will return to lend him a hand

    • JP says:

      12:40pm | 19/07/10

      That would presuppose the reverse isn’t also true - I’d be surprised if there wasn’t an equal number of men who don’t want a female PM (personally, I can’t see a way out of a protest vote with preferencing at this election - CAN’T vote for a leader because I know they won’t be there in 2013 (Abbott will be deposed by a more moderate if he wins, as will Gillard - I’m expecting Swan and Hockey to face off across the centre table of the lower house by the next election campaign)

      We went from a government who knew what they were doing - but ignored the public - and an opposition that listened to the public - but didn’t know how to govern to a government that couldn’t do either, against an opposition that is essentially not listening as well and has lost enough talent to not really know government well. If anything, that equation looks worse for the newer government - so for now it’s Liberal pref in the lower house, and whoever needs the upper house seats given the seats up for grabs to keep a minority Senate in the upper one.

      I know I’m not giving either side the Senate.

    • Davida says:

      11:01am | 19/07/10

      It’s always interesting to hear opinion from multiple sources, so thankyou David.  I love phrases such as the “normal people of Australia” and the “hard working Australians”.  I have yet to encounter anyone, regardless of profession, location, socio-economic bracket, education etc etc, who loudly and earnestly asserts “I’m a lazy, indolent, bone-idle, waste of space, who is by no means normal and a blight on Australian society.”  I guess we all agree it is others, not ourselves, who have issues with hard work and normality and what is Australian.

    • MARIA says:

      11:04am | 19/07/10

      I’m a worker and a mum. I’m straight-forward. I make take-away food and my husband works as an welder. We’re the normal people of Australia. I want a government that is looking out for us, not for people who think the world owes them a living.like assylum seekers.
      were voting for Abbott this time.labor told us lies

    • Greg says:

      11:22am | 19/07/10

      Good on you Maria! Lets hope there are more people like you out there. Yes there have been many lies from Labor’s last election campaign (grocery choice, fuelwatch, childcare facilities, carbon trading, not to touch the prjivate health rebate, turning the boats around etc). I think people are sick of being promised the world and either nothing delivered or taxpayers money being wasted and or rorted (schools scheme, insulation scheme, green bonds etc). Enough’s enough. Kick them out!

    • Ella says:

      12:32pm | 19/07/10

      @MARIA. So…the fact I work as a freelancer from home and my husband works in an office somehow make us abnormal people of Australia? Or just not real Australians? Is working a blue collar job a prerequisite for being a ‘normal’ Australian?

    • Hermoine says:

      02:10pm | 19/07/10

      I’m a worker and a mum.  I want a government that is looking out for us.  I want a Government who is not afraid to protect jobs in retail and building by spending when a global economic crisis is threatened.  I want a Government that is prepared to tax mining companies on windfall profits and use that taxes to increase superannuation contributions so that my kids don’t have to work until they’re 75 to fund pensions for Gen X and Gen Y.  I want a Government that puts money into the health system and not just blame the States…even if the States do deserve it.  That’s why I’m NOT voting for Abbott this time, or any time.
      And if you think that Labor are the only political party that tells lies, I have a few quotes from John Winston Howard: “Never, ever” and “Non-core promises”... as well as the sentiment from Tony Abbott that you can only trust him when what he’s saying is scripted.

    • Macca says:

      04:00pm | 19/07/10

      @Hermoine, The only interests the Labor party have are for themselves and their cronies (read Unions).

      The Mining Tax was a complete stuff up, it sealed Rudd’s end. To suggest Mining Companies don’t pay tax makes you a pawn for Swan’s propoganda. That includes the mining tax being linked to Superannuation increases. The two have nothing to do with each other. Companies pay super, not the government, to suggest the two are linked is a complete lie.

      As for getting us through the recession, how does that weigh up with all those mining company profits? The residual benifits to the economy from the Chinese demand had a huge insulating effect on the Australian Economy, but Swan and Gillard can keep patting themselves on the back for those million dollar BBQ sheds

      If you wanted a government that put money into the states, that would have been John Howard’s Coalition, who introduced the GST and sent the money back to the states. Labor’s health reform is crap, its simply reiterating where the money will come from (ah, the GST, 30% of it, remember?), thats not a government taking control. Thats delegating to incompetant state officials.

      I’m happy to further refute any other strengths you perceive by the current Government that warrant re-election.

    • Greg says:

      05:21pm | 19/07/10

      Hermoine, the “never ever” was matched by “rollback”! Whatever happened to that? Or is it the fact that the states who benefit from the GST are all Labor?? At least Howard was transparent at the election on the GST, people knew it was coming and voted for it. And I might add, it was the most substantial piece of tax reform since 1936! And where are Keatings L.A.W. tax cuts Hermoine?? Oh that’s right it took Howard to deliver them.

    • Roja says:

      06:51pm | 19/07/10

      @Greg - “At least Howard was transparent at the election on the GST”

      Strange that he did not EVER mention work choices before an election, he simply implemented it.  This is paricularly strange that this policy is something that had long been of “a deep personal interest” to Howard.  For all of that he never once consulted with the people it was going to effect…. now if that was Rudd & it was a mining tax.

    • Greg says:

      08:57am | 20/07/10

      Roja, you may well argue that Howard lost the election because of it and the union scare campaign over work choices. So perhaps we’ll get lucky and Labor will lose this one on the back of the mess they’ve created. Perhaps they’ll lose it over insulation schemes, rortng of the school scheme, grocery choices not delivered, childcare facilities not delivered, fuelwatch failure. The lie about more affordable housing or the lie about no compolsory uni union fees, or turning the boats around. Or perhaps they’ll lose it over the green loans fiasco or the lie about not touching the private health care tax rebate. Or maybe they’ll lose it over the blown surplus and the record foreign debt they have racked up. Or the root abnd branch overhaul of the tax system that was promised and never delivered! Maybe, just maybe despite the biased media coverage, the people of Australia have had enough of the waste and rorting?

    • Roja says:

      12:10pm | 20/07/10

      Actually Greg I was pointing out that he was less than “transparent” about Work Choices, as he never mentioned it at all before his re-election in 2004.  I voted for Howard because of the GST, great idea that it was.  However I became disillusioned when workers at service stations everywhere lost penalty rates when working the midnight to dawn shift. 

      All in all, the other factors you state are true to varying degrees (which were on par for many of Howard’s failures, for me telstra / IT infrastructure was an appalling failing of his) - the one exception I will make is the media coverage, it was all pro-Abbott when Abbott didn’t say anything.  Once he started talking again, they could do little other than report what he said, which is his biggest liability.  Had it been Malcolm Turnbull and not Tony, we may have been on the same side.

    • Holly says:

      11:14am | 19/07/10

      I can’t quite follow the criticism of the handouts.  Many of them originated under the Howard government and were extended to higher income earners under his watch.  Are the stay at home parents saying they don’t get any handouts or that a handful of refugees should not get any?  Many years ago when I was forced to return to work there were no huge parenting benefits, certainly no child care benefits at all but I still needed the miserable thirty odd dollars left from my pay packet to top up our mortgage payments.  I just counted myself fortunate to be able to get a job so that I our family would not lose the house.  I guess you will never be able to have a rational discussion with people who always believe the glass is half empty.

      So far I have not heard much positive from the coalition. He has promised money for youth mental health services but only if money is withdrawn from other health expenditure areas.  I see Tony is now trying to distance himself from Eric Abetz’s comments on Workchoices.  What does “tweaking” mean exactly? He has still only promised not to change the legislation when in fact considerable changes can be made through regulation (no vote in parliament required).  His four point action plan is meaningless.  He has already said he will not turn back many if any boats, he will not pay off the debt any faster, he will be raising his own new taxes to offer up to $75,000 maternity leave to the rich.  He will not support a mining tax which the miners have agreed to pay.

    • Greg says:

      11:46am | 19/07/10

      Holly, I thought the Libs had agreed to go back to the policy that seemed to work on asylum seekers. That was the one before Gillard stopped temporary visas and before she shut down Naru! What about the Timor Solution which is no solution at all?? Also, the LNP has stated that workchoices is dead and wont be coming back, time for you and the Labor spin doctors to move on from that one. Btw, the unemployment rate has gone up since Labor came to power. Also the defecit was racked up by Labor not the LNP, the fact that there’s one that has to be repaid is Labor’s fault! They turned the surplus into defecit in less than no time at all and have set up record levels of foreign debt and what do we have to show for it? They have also failed to deliver numerous election promises and made a mess of the ones they tried to deliver. Also, I thought the maternity leave payment proposed by the LNP was available to all, not just the rich?? That would be something for working families as aposed to nothing but talk we get from Labor! Holly Labor has failed us, time for them to go!

    • TwistedEar says:

      12:06pm | 19/07/10

      Bzzzt, wrong! Inregards to Abetz’s comments, you tend to read only the headlines don’t you? The full quote included the phrase “Without changing the fundamental legaslative framework”. Abbott is not distancing himself from it, he was broadsided by an out of context quote that looks to have fizzled. Rudd, and now Gillard’s ministry is still ‘tweaking’ FWA policy as it goes along - does that mean they themselves are going to be going back to WorkChoices? No, of course not! So why paint the prospect of the Liberal Party gaining government as this (faux) bogeyman of Workchoices mk II?

      Ad for the 4 point action plan - so far its the most detail vision either part has for the future in this campaign. Maybe meaningless, but still of more substance than anything the Labor party has put forward.

      As for your handout comment - you do realise that you decry this criticism of the handouts, then turn around and whinge that you never got any, trying to difuse that hypocrasy with that old chestnut of being an optomist and grateful of having work. Breathtaking

    • Chris says:

      03:33pm | 19/07/10

      The mining tax refusal was probably a lie by Abbott - how else to explain it?

    • Sirro says:

      11:30am | 19/07/10

      Bookies rarely get it wrong? First term governments never get voted out? First term Prime Ministers never get butchered by their own party?

      We are living in a different time ... anything is possible. Who would have thought a government elected in 2007 with such hope would have turned out to be so completely inept at governing and be in this situation.

      Labor are going to lose Lindsay. For a number of reasons including pretty much everything that those interviewed stated. They are a party of handouts and no work. They are not the party of the workers. They are the party of the work dodgers. Those who want a free kick or an easy run at the expense of the general population who have to fund it through their taxes.
      This is why the people of Lindsay and many of the metro-fringe seats are going to elect Tony Abbott.  They simply dont listen to the typical socialist bulldust “madmonk” rubbish that gets spun by the trendy left. They are interested in straight talk and intent. Neither Kevin 07 or the “pretend Ranga” have demonstrated this. They say lots of pretty things yet behind the talk there is pretty much nothing.

      Oppositions dont win elections, Governments lose them. Oppostions simply have to be a credible alternative. Abbott and the Liberals have shown the populace that they are a credible alternative by opposing a bad government and pointing out their failures. The majority can see this and barring some sort of massive change in perception are going to elect Abbott in a tight, close result.

    • macca says:

      11:42am | 19/07/10

      @Sirro, i agree with a lot of the above, but I still think Bookies rarely get it wrong, and First termers never get voted out. This Government does not deserve reelection, but Julia’s honeymoon and the incumbency will be enough to get her over the line.

      The result in Lindsay will be very interesting, as will my seat, Bennelong. I’d like to think they will vote for Abbott, but I just can’t see it occuring.

      @Penbo and Punch Team, Abbott’s satisfaction ratings are somewhat down recently and talking amongst my social / work circles, many people just don’t like him, although they can’t explain why (this includes people of the Catholic Faith). An investigation into this would be a good read (well, I think it would be). Get young Leo onto it, where’s his story today.

    • Tails says:

      12:39pm | 19/07/10

      Let’s take a look at last weekend.

      Geelong was favourite to beat Adelaide.
      Carlton favourite to beat Sydney.
      Richmond favourite to beat North Melbourne
      St Kilda favourite to beat Collingwood.

      Yeah. Bookies never get it wrong.

    • Macca says:

      02:06pm | 19/07/10

      @Tails, I think the bookies reference is related to elections, not sport. but your point is well made. Up the Swannies!!!

    • Rosie says:

      11:35am | 19/07/10

      Gillard is moving forward alright but only for now as the woman is without a successor. What does she care? The woman will lead for today only as if there is no tomorrow. It is now or never for the ambitious Gillard to fulfil her dreams as Australia’s first woman ELECTED PM. If Labour wins it will be moving forward for Julia alone and not a care in the world for Australia’s future generations. She will spend up big and not end the waste or repay the debt. She will not be able to stop the new taxes or stop the boats! Vote Labour now and look forward to “party time.”  3 years of big spending before Australians will take their first step to moving forward for good governance and good management of the ecomony and for future generations. While some of us are working our butts off because we believe in taking responsibilty of our well-being and worried like hell that China doesn’t crash
      Gillard and her mob will be partying! PS We have seen it with KevinO7 so how in the life of me could anyone trust Swann the goose with the country’s purse strings???? OOOOOOOOPS nothing in the purse at the moment. I am hoping that the only moving forward Gillard does is to the back bench!

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:38am | 19/07/10

      Ummm…if anyone here is older than 10 - it was ‘Honest’ John who started handing out money like it was going out of fashion. ‘Giving Back’ to the people, Baby Bonuses, First Home Owners grants, one off payments etc. Krudd and Co kept it going and wisely threw a bit more into the pot with ‘Stimulous’ payments, a move that plenty of financial experts around the world said was a smart move.

      ‘Handouts’ is a manufactured election item. It shouldn’t rate at all - if anyone had half a brain or more.

      As is the ‘Battler’ - we’re all bloody ‘Batlters’ - unless we are Ken Talbot/Packer/Murdoch rich. And if we were we wouldn’t be bloody reading Punch articles during the workday! Just because we live in different suburbs or don’t work in manufacturing, building or transportation industries doesn’t exclude us from being ‘battlers. I’m sick to the eye teeth of the media - including the author of this article, dragging out the stereotypical bogans from Penrith, Dandenong, Logan etc with their concreting/truckie husbands, Commodores and 3 kids as representative of the ‘battler’. Some of us are in IT, Office Workers, Sales,Retail etc and other perceived ‘white collar’ jobs because it doesn’t involve shovelling shit for 12 hours a day. Plenty of these ‘White Collar’ jobs pay less than concreters and truckies. Just because you’ve red a few books, can pronounce correctly the TH sound instead of an F sound and don’t watch TT/ACA everynight with your Chicken Tonight in your lap doesn’t make your life anymore financially better off. How abouts the media do a few interviews with us in other electorates rather than usual ‘Battler’ electorates??

      You might find most of us have plenty of other issues we have on our minds rather than a ‘send the bastards’ back crap you’ve been aiming for to make a headline.

    • Adelaidegirl says:

      01:06pm | 19/07/10

      Spot on Dave!

    • Steve says:

      02:23pm | 19/07/10

      What do you think makes people who grew up in a relatively stable household with a middling income become truckies etc on a permanent fulltime basis as opposed to part-time as a means to finance further education and escape a lifetime of debilitating physical labour? Is it merely accidental - e.g. they knock up some chick and are forced to stay in their current job and work longer hours to care for their family? or is it something else like a misguided idea of ‘the dignity of labour’ or working class values or ‘sticking with your own’ (even if it means entrapment in a crappy job for life)?

      The problem, in my opinion, is that no one from the sensible end of the political spectrum has deigned to address the concerns of suburban working people honestly.

      These people’s llives are under stress - they think they’re doing everything right - they work hard and provide for their families, send their kids to school, they drive, follow sports, drink beer and watch the right shows and eat the right (culturally appropriate) foods and…they’re white. They avoid all of the wrong shows, foods, cars, sports and ideas. But still their lives suck. They’ve been spellbound by hucksters like Abbott and Howard before him into believing that all of their problems are caused by ‘illegals’ and other mythical non-white bludgers.

      Standing back and mocking these people will not solve anything

    • spent says:

      02:57pm | 19/07/10

      Dave,

      Big, Big, BIG difference between handing out money you have and handing out money you don’t.

    • Roja says:

      04:29pm | 19/07/10

      @spent - you are right.  Ever heard of “saving for a rainy day”.

      If the Libs hadn’t continually blown all the boom money on hand outs during the good times, labor wouldn’t have needed to borrow when they took power during the bad times. 

      Thats the problem with the system innit?  The money tends to go the parties best interests, not the intersts of the people.

    • Mum of 5 says:

      10:53pm | 19/07/10

      @Roja How old are you? On this blog Ihave heard so many lines of utter B***shit come from you I have either figured out that a) youre not old enough to vote b) you cant use the internet properly c) youre a labor stooge d) or incredibly stupid!!!! Youre last comment “Labor only had to borrow money because Howardspent it all” is so far from the truth its laughable (or incredibly dumb). I think you better readup on your political history my friend. Point 1) With every labor government we have had in Australia our country we have ended up in debt 2)The people of Oz get sick of the waste and debt and vote in a Conservitive government to clean up the mess! 3) The Conservitives tighten the belts and slowly but surely get the books into the black 4) Because everything fine again, people start feeling safe, employment low,economy booming, gov has money in the bank they get taken by that shiny new toy (Labor) that promises the world and the merry go round starts again!!! We had a surpus of $20BILLION with Billions more in the future funds when Rudd come in, now after just over 2 and half years we are $50+ Billion in deficit and have $200 Billion booked up on the China Bankcard which will have to be paid back in years to come! Thats a whooping $285,000,000.000 gone!!! Seriously people if you believe we had to spend that much money to get out of the GFC you also believe in Santa Claus and Unicorns!

    • antman says:

      05:27pm | 20/07/10

      Hey Mum of 5, how old are you. Clearly not old enough to remember the mess left by the Coalition (courtesy of one JW Howard, Treaurer). A $10 billion defecit would be the equivalent of how much these days? Even though the world economy wasn’t as rosy in the early ‘80s as it could have been (and certainly was when Howard had his next crack at royally stuffing things up - structural deficit (you do understand that concept, don’t you? It guaranteed that the slightest hiccup in world economic conditions would plunge the Commonwealth Government into deficit and the ALP could only wait until it worked its way out of the system and hope that it did so before the inevitable hiccup, which came too soon), middle-class welfare out of control, lagging the world in infrastructure and communications etc.) but it was nowhere near what the Government face on 2008-2009. On that comparison alone, this government has performed far better than the Coalition government of the late ‘70s and early 80s. Comparisons with other developed countries bear this out as well. Who was left to clean up the mess after ‘83? It wasn’t a Coalition government. The debt and defecit left by Keating in ‘96 was no worse than that left by Howard 13 years earlier but the economy had been transformed and was at the beginning of the boom that lasted for another 12 years. Howard and Costello only needed to sit back and wait for the surplusses to start rolling in and for debt to be paid down. Instead, they sold off the nation’s silverware for bargain basement prices and transferred all of the Government debt onto the private sector.

      Sorry for the lack of paragraphs but the mythologising of the Howard/Costello economic management frustrates me no end. Never has a golden opportunity been squandered with so little to show. Hopefully, with time, those whose views are not so tainted by their involvement (whether it be actual, emotional or intellectual) in the times will be able to judge the Howard/Costello era as a massive fail.

    • Roja says:

      08:52pm | 20/07/10

      @mumof5 - My point was that had they saved more of that money (eg left it in the bank like you falsely claimed they had), not spent it in election year bribes then they would not only have gotten the government debt level back to even but would have seen Australia with money in the bank - meaning we would have been far better placed to handle the GFC - regardless of who was in power.

      I could also point out that labor were trying to stimulate the economy when it was needed - in the first year of a three year term, where the liberals were always trying to stimulate voters in an election year.  If you think thats better for Australia, I am quite glad you only get one vote.

      The best time to spend money is when unemployment would be high, as wages are cheaper, to act as a counter balance to the faltering economy.  Rudd could have gone for the ‘in case of economic emegency’ stimulus plan that the liberals had ready for such an occasion but of course no such thing existed. 

      As for the rest of your tirade, I am old enough to know how to discuss a topic with respect, I am not small enough to ever need to call anyone stupid in a poor attempt to win an argument and after 11 years of liberal rule where they left the telecommunications industry in an utter shambles I am lucky to have access to the internet at all.

    • spent says:

      11:42am | 19/07/10

      This will be fought out on affordability and cost of living.
      You don’t need to be a genius to realise that the last 3 years has seen costs blow out by a minimum of 30% on everything (some things almost doubling). I also remember that Labor also promised (with a capital P) that they would reduce the cost to families.
      As you can see evidence points to labor either outright lying or they are incapable of brining the cost of living down.

      I cannot afford Labor, so my choice is easy. This is how the whole campaign will be played out. Forget climate change, boat people etc. If I can’t afford to live my life like I did before 2007, I look for a reason why. Who has forced me to degrade my living conditions and why. I had no such problem from the begining of the last decade until 2007.

      Its that simple for me and lots of others as well.

    • Dash says:

      12:08pm | 19/07/10

      Spent, as in “more affordable housing” - remember that promise (or should I say lie) from Labor during the ‘07 election. Or perhaps grocery choices, remember that lie from Labor last election. Fuelwatch was another good one too remember. Then there are the price hikes already factored into our power prices because of the proposed ETS and because NSW Labor are a pack of morons!

    • hot tub political machine says:

      11:43am | 19/07/10

      I wonder how many of these “anti-handouts” campaigners choose to send back their stimulus cheque on the basis of principle?

    • JK says:

      01:12pm | 19/07/10

      You know what else gets overlooked;  it is all working money.  No matter how the money is spent - it attracts alot and varied tax.  For example.  I receive $225 p/f FTB for my two teenage boys.  So off I toddle to spend the cash at the local supermarket or retailer where the business is paying tax and the employee is paying tax and without my support the business may well be struggling or unable to employ the customer service representive I just dealt with.  My point being the money spins right back around to the government and also keeps business’ going at people employed within my community.  The ‘handout’ also assists in rearing to fine young men into an aging population whom undoubtly will be paying tax to pay the ‘doubters’ pensions.  Good investment all round I would say!

    • hot tub political machine says:

      03:29pm | 19/07/10

      Fair point JK. I hadn’t thought of it that way. I guess the money has more value for the private sector cycling in and out of treasury than it does when its just sitting there earning interest for the Government.

    • G says:

      11:44am | 19/07/10

      We should be intellectually honest - it’s not asylum seekers that are the concern, it’s multiculturalism and the transformation of Anglo-cultural suburbs into majority Asian-cultural. It’s the looming transformation of Penrith and Campbelltown into suburbs that will resemble Auburn and Cabramatta wherein it’s easier to buy a dim sum than a burger with the lot. Why is this so hard for the elites to comprehend. Maybe because the wealthy have yet to be enriched by multiculturalism…

    • L. says:

      12:58pm | 19/07/10

      “We should be intellectually honest - it’s not asylum seekers that are the concern, it’s multiculturalism and the transformation of Anglo-cultural suburbs into majority Asian-cultural.”

      I tend to agree. It’s basic human nature.

    • James1 says:

      04:37pm | 19/07/10

      Burgers are awful anyway.  I would much rather a nice chicken shalimar or a Szechuan hotpot.  You sound boring, G.

    • Halberstram says:

      11:49am | 19/07/10

      “There’s a lot of handouts being given out to all the people across Australia”

      He’s right.

      Lots of handouts like family tax benefits, childcare rebate, baby bonus that he has probably taken advantage of.

      What a hypocrite !

    • jim c says:

      11:59am | 19/07/10

      “...proud, hard-working, lower-to-middle income mortgagees who are right on the edge…”

      Err - I think you mean ‘mortgagors’.

    • Press says:

      01:56pm | 19/07/10

      Love your work, Jim! Nice pick-up.

      As for “knife edge”, well pfft.  After all, *you* choose how much you borrow. The really low rates of the past 2 years was time to keep your payments up and get ahead. Not refinance to the hilt.

    • spent says:

      02:52pm | 19/07/10

      Over population, first home grant, State goverments not releasing land.

      I wish “I” had a choice

    • TheRealDave says:

      12:11pm | 19/07/10

      I wonder if the author can post up exactly how much ‘Jade’ and ‘Kelly’ - who rail about the ‘handouts’ everyone else is getting, are both getting in Family Allowance payments and other supplements, baby bonuses, ‘Stimulous payments’ etc?

      Or would that have been far too much hard work for a ‘Journalist’ ??

    • Spent says:

      12:42pm | 19/07/10

      The issue is that people who have been here all of 2 minutes are entitled to as much and more make me and a lot of people I know angry. Make that distinction. We are paying a bunch of strangers.

      You trying to justify why I should handover MY money to somebody YOU think should get it is a disgrace. These people in Lindsey work and pay taxes. They get some back because they are already over taxed. It is still not enough to make up the shortfall that this Governement has stolen one way or another.

      Can you not see your electricity, water, gas etc bills have skyrocketed to a joke? If not, then somebody else is paying your bills. These thing matter above all else and whoever is presiding over this garbage should be punished and punished well.

    • Davida says:

      12:47pm | 19/07/10

      It’s easy to understand…...if money is received by you, your family members, friends and peers it is an “entitlement.”  If money is received by people you don’t like or people you don’t know it is called a “handout”.  Do you see the very obvious distinction?

    • Spent says:

      01:25pm | 19/07/10

      Money is originally mine from working hard. I don’t have to work hard.

      I understand that if I don’t work hard, they are handouts. If I work hard, they are entitlements. Do you understand this?

      The more you say that what is mine is not, the dumber your argument is.

    • Jack says:

      02:17pm | 19/07/10

      For some reason, only ‘battlas’ have this mythical ‘hard earned’ money/dollars/taxes/etc. Like Dave. The rest of us just have regular money, it seems. Which is not as valuable as ‘hard earned’ bogan money.

    • Spent says:

      02:47pm | 19/07/10

      Jack, the value you place on what you earn is yours.

    • Your name:Shed Logic says:

      11:32am | 20/07/10

      Your comment"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world’s great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage.” - Alexander Tyler, (in his 1770 book, Cycle of Democracy )
      :

    • David C says:

      12:41pm | 19/07/10

      I love the desparte attempt by the Labor party to push this “you dont for the PM just the party” Wasnt the 2007 election all about Kevin 07?????
      Sorry guys you cant have it both ways.
      I will feel very sorry for T Abbott if he doesnt get up on August 21, I mean how bad do you have to be if you cant beat a government like the current one? What could be worse than the GFC panic spendathon fiasco, the pink batt fiasco, the NBN fiasco, the super profit tax fiasco, the green loans fiasco, the boat people fiasco, the ETS fiasco, etc etc etc etc etc ... (I am sure there are more fiascos)

    • Roja says:

      06:37pm | 19/07/10

      Perhaps the liberals should not have banged on about interest rates when they had sweet f**k all to with how they were set.  Also don’t forget that eleven years of power means lots of their own fiascos for people to forget.

    • Lucy says:

      12:45pm | 19/07/10

      Actually, Kelly was forced to a byelection in 1996 because she held dual citizenship with New Zealand - the RAAF job was never ruled on by the gutless High Court, causing ongoing uncertainty in this area.

      Exemptions exist in the Constitution to the ‘office of profit under the Crown’ provisions if you are in the Navy or Army. Of course, the Air Force hadn’t been invented in 1901.

      The provision has never been amended and the High Court could have made a ruling which cleared this up - but didn’t.

      Both justifications for a byelection used by Labor were churlish and this showed in the result when Kelly received an additional swing.

    • The Claw says:

      12:58pm | 19/07/10

      Would love to know if Jade from Penrith complains quite so loudly about the “handout culture” when it is baby bonuses and first home buyer’s grants going HER way.

    • Spent says:

      01:30pm | 19/07/10

      For people who have worked all their lives in Australia, this is not a handout, its a clawback. And its still not enough.

    • The Claw says:

      05:29pm | 19/07/10

      I’ve worked all my life in Australia, but I don’t have kids and I don’t own a house. Where’s my “clawback”? Do I get one? Or does it all go to Jade from Penrith and her fellow handout-haters?

    • james says:

      01:06pm | 19/07/10

      I still cant believe that they got rif of Rudd so quickly. I thought he was the most powerful man in the country.  I voted for Rudd and felt that he still had alot to do and alot wasnt done but I think it would have taken at least 2 terms. I really disgusted that they ( who ever they are) got rid of or PM its like another country assisinated him. I will not be giving my vote to Joola and I will reluctuantly be voting for Abbott. If he has ditched work choices and keep to ALP IR laws he has my vote.

    • Bob says:

      01:54pm | 19/07/10

      Rupert Murdoch is the most powerful man in the country (or out of it) and you’d do well not to forget it, james.

    • kristinm2 says:

      01:31pm | 19/07/10

      Interesting to read this portrayal of the ‘battlers of Lindsay’ and then this article http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/abbott-plays-the-backyard-pitch-20100718-10g38.html in the SMH in which Abbott visits a family which the Libs (and probably Labor too) obviously consider the archetypical working family from Lindsay. What a joke - if this is battler land, then we must be living in topsy turvy world.

      A brand new home (was it built with the first home-buyers HANDOUT? ) cost them about $760,000 (work out the mortgage repayments on that!), five bedrooms (apparently battler’s kids can’t share bedrooms and there has to be a spare), four living areas ( One for each gaming console?), two bathrooms (what no guest bathroom?) and a ‘vast’ backyard - because 4 living spaces just doesn’t get you far enough away from your kids. All this while whinging about the ‘cost of living’. That’s not the cost of living, that’s the cost of living beyond your means. No handouts? $15,000 in baby bonuses for a start - let alone all the other middle class welfare they receive.

      The kids’ cubby cost the equivalent of 2 weeks rent on our small house and garden in the supposedly ‘wealthy silvertail’ electorate of Wentworth, for my hard working family (2 parents working, child at public school, 1 dog). No handouts here - although my landlord gets a lovely tax break & come to think of it, he does a nice line in whinging as well.

      That’s fine by me - at least I don’t worry myself sick about paying a ridiculous mortgage & have time to spend with my child (born before the baby bonus) as I don’t have to work a second job. If the interest rates go up, perhaps the battling Knight family can rent out their 5th bedroom to a refugee family to make up the difference.

    • spent says:

      01:57pm | 19/07/10

      Explain why the goverment insists on pricing us out of what you are saying? Why is it not sustainable? Because you say so?

      Well I say not.

    • AdamC says:

      02:43pm | 19/07/10

      I agree that we live in a society where people are encoraged to feel entitled, bitch and whinge. However, based on your comment, it seems like you think you should be able to whinge, but not Mr and Mrs cashed-up-bogan from Lindsay or Mr Landlord from Wentworth.

      I think we have very good living standards in Australia, unless you want to buy a home, in which case life becomes a little more of a struggle. Arguing about whether Mr big-house ‘battler’ in Penrith or Ms bobo (bohemian bourgeois) yippee (yuppie hippie) in Newtown has more of a right to complain about their lot is not edifying at all.

    • Senate Watcher says:

      01:45pm | 19/07/10

      This is the best article written in the 2010 Election Campaign so far.  Some FACTS for a change.  A pity more journo’s haven’t read it.

    • antman says:

      05:50pm | 20/07/10

      I hope you’re not referring to the views of Lane and Kell, which are uninformed regurgitations of xenophobic misrepresentations spread by shock jocks, and NOT facts.

    • Lauren says:

      02:33pm | 19/07/10

      It’s pretty scary when people like Kelly Cooper are allowed to vote. One of her issues it seems is that the PM isn’t even a real ranga.

    • Hermoine Grainger says:

      03:13pm | 19/07/10

      I’m also a resident of Lindsay. I work, I’m a mum and I’m happy to stick my hand up and say I’ve received a few handouts from both this Govt and the previous one - baby bonus, childcare rebate, first home owners grant, stimulas cheques etc. 

      What I also remember is this: interest rates were higher three years ago than they are now.  I feel more secure in my job than I did when I had absolutely no recourse to unfair dismissal because my employer didn’t employ enough people.  I remember when petrol was $1.40/litre and that fuel watch got killed in the Senate because the Libs wouldn’t vote for it.  It took an age for us to be able to get connected to broadband thanks to Telstra and Optus deciding that they weren’t going to do any more cabling.

      Like many Lindsay residents, I don’t live in a McMansion.  I don’t care if the PM is a natural or bottle red-head; I don’t care if they wear budgie smugglers or boardies, as long as they don’t wear them into a meeting. 

      What I want is for both my husband and I to be able to keep the roof over our family’s head; for my son to have access to well resourced schools, the choice of university or a trade, and the opportunity for a well-paying job when he grows up.  And how is this different from those in other suburbs closer to the city?

      I’m Westie and proud.  Call me redneck, however, and watch me fume.

    • MH says:

      06:55pm | 19/07/10

      I am all in favour of your right to speak up for your views and not be branded redneck.  I also applaud your honesty in acknowledging receipt of some government largesse - and frankly, why should anyone be ashamed at taking advantage of a benefit to which they are entitled?  Two points though:

      (1) Governments don’t set interest rates, the RBA sets interest rates.  Governments have negligible impact on interest rates.  Both parties know this but sadly the level of electoral ignorance is such that this false issue continues to be a key factor influencing voting preferences.  Tony can’t actually guarantee that interest rates will be lower under the Libs, just as you can’t infer that because interest rates are presently lower than they were 3 years ago, Labor is better at managing interest rates. 

      (2) Governments don’t control petrol prices.  Petrol prices are predominantly determined by global macroeconomic factors beyond the influence of our little federal pollies.  Fuelwatch is a pointless exercise in pretending to be able to do something about it.

    • Press says:

      07:57am | 20/07/10

      So Governments have negligible impact on interest rates after all do they.

      Meh.  So Senator “Straight Talk” Joyce *was* telling whoppers, hey.

      I
      Told
      You
      So.

    • Sick says:

      03:30pm | 19/07/10

      You have to hand it to the powers that be, they’ve certainly got everyone on the bottom tier of Australia’s two tier society blaming a handful of boat people for Australia’s woes!  If only the bottom tier would take a good look at the people on the top tier and how they have endorsed this two tier society, e.g. our two tier well funded private / poorly funded public education system, our two tier private & public health systems and so on.  I suppose the african “boat person” in designer jeans around the corner is much more visible than the white anglo-person in the eastern suburbs on $500,000 pa with 3 investment houses being rented by the bottom tier, who easily afford all services while those in the western suburbs struggle to make ends meet…

    • iansand says:

      03:43pm | 19/07/10

      I found this bit strange:

      “Put it this way. I have asylum seekers living two streets away from me and when you see them driving around in a $30,000 car and wearing brand-new Versace and you look at them and think, hang on, we are paying through our taxes for them to be here, and you just think no way. Why should we be paying for them to be here? We can’t even afford to buy that sort of crap for ourselves. Mum knows the name of them, what are they called again? Sudanese.”

      How does she know the family is not working?  In a former life I came into contact with members of the Ukrainian community who were refugees from WW2.  They were despised, and called Balts by dinky di Aussies.  Their typical story was arriving in 1946 with nothing.  Husband and wife worked 2 menial jobs each, and had bought their house by about 1951.  They continued to work their menial jobs and got their first investment property by about 1956 or 1957.  By the time their kids married they were buying each kid a house as a wedding present.  Still working hard.  Their major motivation was fear of losing everything again.  Why would the Sudanese, or any other group of refugees, be different?

    • General Zod says:

      03:55pm | 19/07/10

      >Why would the Sudanese, or any other group of refugees, be different?

      Because they come from a different culture? Because these days welfare is much easier to get than in 1946?

    • iansand says:

      04:11pm | 19/07/10

      General Zod - How do you know that (as opposed to believing it on no evidence)?  Are you aware that Ukrainians and Italians and Greeks and Yugoslavs and Lebanese and Vietnamese have all been the subjects of identical slurs against them in Australia?

    • TheRealDave says:

      04:22pm | 19/07/10

      My grandfather (on my mums side) was one of these Ukranian refugees that settled in Sydernee’s west in 1950. While his family were interned in Cowra he was shovelling shit, literally, on the Sydernee waterboard getting the money together for a deposit on a block of land. He bough the land, built a ‘temporary’ house to put the family in while he built the main house - whilst still working for the Waterboard. They never got any handouts, cash payments, advocacy servces, english language courses, first home owners grants, baby bonuses etc etc His family as I mention were interred, read: imprisoned, until he could afford to re-house them himself. No grants or allowances. No helping hands, no advocacy services, no free lawyers etc.

      There is no reason why modern arrivals can’t do better with all the money and assistance thrown their way. We’ve changed as a society since the 50’s. We do need to be offering our recent arrivals assitance, we need to learn from past mistakes. In the 1950’s a bloke with little English and little education could find work doing the ‘shit’ (literally) jobs and provide for his family. Different story today where even a Sandwich place wants someone with 5 years experience and a degree in Sandwichology. Not all of them can work as Trolley Boys. A lot of these arrivals today are arriving with even less education than our grandparents and with even less cultural compatibility - and that is a wellfounded concern that needs to be addressed.

    • General Zod says:

      04:29pm | 19/07/10

      iansand - How do you know they’re not different, as opposed to believing it on no evidence?

      We’re both just speculating.

    • The Claw says:

      05:34pm | 19/07/10

      It’s funny how the people who whine about immigrants living the high life on welfare always seem to be the same people who whine about taxi drivers, shopkeepers, etc. not being able to speak English, isn’t it?

    • steak steve says:

      04:18pm | 19/07/10

      Labor has approved gay marriage to get the Greens preference vote

    • Steve says:

      04:47pm | 19/07/10

      I bet you a steak steak steve that Labor has done no such thing.

    • The Claw says:

      05:36pm | 19/07/10

      Prime Minister Julia Gillard says she does not support legalising gay marriage in Australia.

      Labor policy on gay marriage will remain the same under her prime ministership, Ms Gillard told Austereo show today.

      “We believe the marriage act is appropriate in its current form, that is recognising that marriage is between a man and a woman”

      SMH, June 30, 2010

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      05:27pm | 19/07/10

      God, five weeks of this election crap and I’ll go postal…...

    • Daniel says:

      05:42pm | 19/07/10

      Penrith people need to wake up ans vote 1 Greens.

    • Greg says:

      09:04am | 20/07/10

      You mean the ALP/Green coalition Daniel!

    • Julie Coker-Godson says:

      06:02pm | 19/07/10

      Reading this article + comments today I have learned two things: 1) There is “bogan money” and 2) there is “sandwichology”.  As for voting, as I’ve said elsewhere I’ll be voting for the Coalition and I shall take full advantage of the disastrous NSW State Labor Government’s dismal failure at State level to inflict punishment at the Federal Level.

    • DD Ball says:

      06:16pm | 19/07/10

      I’d forgotten how the media inflated the stupid Lindsay thing out of all proportion before the ‘07 election. I won’t be participating in any such tricks .. I don’t have the time or the desire. Instead, all I have to do is talk about what my opponent has done in office, delivering record debt from surplus, weakening border protection so that desperate people drowned and were fleeced by pirates only to be denied a secure accommodation. Prices rises and lower pay with fewer in full time work. Or I can refer to various corruption issues and policy failures. I don’t need to lie and obfuscate, as Gillard does, and hammer a slogan about not looking at my mistakes. You see, it doesn’t matter that I am fat and middle aged while my opponent is a young failure. I have stood up for things that matter, and that is what counts.

    • jed says:

      10:53pm | 19/07/10

      scary stuff, considering some of these people would be hoovering up the family tax benefit. there’s some handout’s right there.

    • Ross says:

      08:46am | 25/07/10

      The shopping centre that Penberthy met the Melrose’s at is in Penrith not South Penrith so it appears he may have lost his way. Some of the Media, during her campaign and recently made Jacky Kelly, married to a “Dentist”, out to be a “Battler”,what a load of rubbish. Both major party’s have done a lot of wrong things over the years to the VOTERS. I know David Bradbury is trying to do the right thing by the afore mentioned VOTERS I hope Fiona Scott is as well,but Mr Bradbury is not just visible during an election campaign but has been out in his electorate every weekend that he is able to be,listening to the Voters,we have yet to see what Miss Scott is willing to do to help us,the VOTERS.Illegal arrivals are of concern to us as are the condition of our health system and roads and transport. Handouts are not what will fix our problems,major infrastructure projects will. Forward thinking politicians that think past the next election are what we need . Is there anybody out there to fill these positions? We have not seen any recently. Maybe they’re lost with Pemberthy in South Penrith.

 

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