Christmas takings are more important than giving

TS says:

07:09am | 07/12/11

Absolutely, or “+1” as is the nomenclature these days.

No bad music, irate people or lousy personal customer service to be had online (though you do have to shop carefully to fully avoid bad service)! And yes, I’m aware of what the extended consequences of shopping online are. I don’t care: Tony Montana, “Me, I want what’s coming to me”.

Hopefully it is via UPS express and was 50% cheaper!

BobM says:

08:38am | 07/12/11

Did 95% of my Christmas shopping online this year. No malls for me!

Mattb says:

08:40am | 07/12/11

+1 erick

+1 online shopping

dancan says:

10:24am | 07/12/11

I’m going to do all my shopping online this year.  So much more variety at cheaper prices

Kika says:

10:58am | 07/12/11

I totally agree Erick. While I like Christmas I hate this time of year for the simple reason that I can’t stand people in the city listening to damn christmas carols looking at the Myer displays looking so relaxed and happy on their holidays standing in my way while I am still slaving away at work still….

Me too… I bought all the gifts for my immediate family online. I ordered something on Friday and it was delivered yesterday. BEATS THE SHOPPING CENTRES BY FAR and saved a truckload! I’d love to know how much Myer would charge me for the gift I got Dad… probably 50% more than I paid online.

James1 says:

02:04pm | 07/12/11

The sooner the Muslims take over and ban Christmas, the better.

marley says:

02:44pm | 07/12/11

@James1 - no, no, no - because the trade off would be Eid.  Personally, I think we should all go Hindu and have Dussehra and Diwali.  Much more fun.

Robert Smissen Of rural SA says:

10:32pm | 07/12/11

Mugs! ! ! You know Christmas is coming, it’s the same day every year. Do a bit of forward planning & shop earlier in the year, October is quite.

marley says:

07:35am | 07/12/11

@mick - as a matter of fact, were I a believer, I’d be inclined to go along with those of the Greek and Russian orthodox faiths who regard Easter as far more meaningful in religious terms than Christmas.  They don’t do celebrate Christmas to anything like the same extent that the Catholics and Protestants do.  And yet, they’re every bit as Christian.

Nic says:

07:46am | 07/12/11

You are correct. I will not bee celebrating the birth of Christ this 25th. However, I will make excellent use of the public holiday to have a large family gathering, and for that, I say Merry Christmas.

MarkS says:

08:23am | 07/12/11

Christmas is NOT a christian day. It is the pagan festival for mid winter. The Christians stole it & rebadged it. So I will eat myself silly in memory of my pagan ancestors.

You silly sky fairy believers who follow some middle eastern tribal god should stop stealing my ancestors festivals. By the way you stole Easter as well, it is as pagan spring festival. That is the reason for the eggs, rabbits etc, fertility symbols.

May the Allfather be with you.

Mayday says:

09:35am | 07/12/11

I refuse to be humbled by such rot -
“God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in him shall have everlasting life.” 

The public holiday period between 25th December and 1st of January is a great time to exchange gifts as tokens of appreciation and a lovely time to get together with family.

My family and friends do think about what this time of year is about; its about giving, sharing and spending time with people you love.

amy says:

11:08am | 07/12/11

@mick

“A few words for the unbelievers: God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in him shall have everlasting life.”

hmmm ok then
I have some words for you mick

“On the Ning Nang Nong
Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!
There’s a Nong Nang Ning
Where the trees go Ping!
And the tea pots jibber jabber joo.
On the Nong Ning Nang
All the mice go Clang
And you just can’t catch ‘em when they do!”

means about as much to me as it does to you…makes me wonder why some feel scripture is actually going to change our minds (or mean anything)

Kika says:

11:15am | 07/12/11

Oh gosh not another one!

You do realise that
1) There’s no evidence that Jesus was born on the 25th of December
2) The actual festival we celebrate is an old pagan Germanic and Celtic festival designed to celebrate the winter solstice
3) Hannukah is also smack bang in between this which is suspicious to say the least
4) Easter was also hijacked by Christians. Easter is a Celtic Spring festival. I don’t remember there being anything about rabbits and chickens and celebrating ‘life’ in the bible when Jesus was crucified
5) Easter also suspiciously fits around Passover…

All in all I can only deduce that the Christians wanted to have special days like the Jews and fitted their traditional European festivals around them and gave them a Christian meaning, even though the pomp and celebration has nothing to do with it. I mean hello?  Snow covered pine trees and holly and ‘yule’ in 1st Century Palestine?  For some reason as I look around at my Christmas decorations it doesn’t really scream “middle east” to me… more like “europe”.

OMG Jesus was from the Middle East? NO!

James1 says:

02:06pm | 07/12/11

And a happy and festive Saturnalia to you, mick!

Ras Putin says:

02:13pm | 07/12/11

Not many of you left Mick and a good thing that is…Most young people of today are not brainwashed to the extent you obviously were, and have the brain power to see religion for the mindless twaddle that it is!!

Mattyc says:

04:44pm | 07/12/11

Keep Christmas. It’s a festivus for the rest of us

The pole is going up now and I can’t wait for the feats of strength

Rachel says:

05:23pm | 07/12/11

Christmas is not a pagan festival. Just because it falls on the same day (deliberately I know) does not mean it has any less it’s own identity, and that identity is to celebrate the birth of Christ. My birthday falls on Anzac Day, nobody gives me presents and insists that they’re in memory of our fallen soldiers.

I see in the season of goodwill that we still have no tolerance for each other.

Leah says:

06:25pm | 07/12/11

marley, as a protestant myself, I think you will find most Catholics and Protestants also regard Easter as more ‘meaningful’ than Christmas. We exchange gifts at Christmas as a reflection of the ‘gift’ (Jesus) that God gave mankind.

MarkS, Christmas IS a Christian day. Yes, there is also a pagan celebration on that day. But you can be sure it wasn’t “Christmas”.

Andrew says:

01:20am | 08/12/11

@amy: thanks, you made me laugh, which doesn’t happen too often reading the tripe people post here

@mick: God so loved the world that he gave his son… blah blah blah.  Hang on, the “omnipotent” god, who loves us all so much, couldn’t just SAVE us, he had to sacrifice his son.  Why exactly?!  If he’s god of the universe and all, surely there’s no need for a blood sacrifice?  Actually, you’re right, it all makes perfect sense.  I’m going to go out now and show the world how much I love it - by slaughtering my own son.  Yay for christians!  Yay for death!  Yay for the stupidity and ignorance of people who believe in 3000 year old fairy tales!

(for those with no sense of humour, yes I was joking about killing my own son.  I don’t have one, and if I did I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t do it anyway.)

You know, when I was a kid I believed in god.  And I prayed to him very hard, saying “please god, make me intelligent and smart and allow me to fully use this wonderful brain you’ve given me.”  And lo and behold, my prayer was answered, and I became an atheist.

Grant says:

02:54am | 08/12/11

Look up Jim Jeffries views on Religion on YouTube. He speaks the TRUTH about God & Jesus! What truth is that? Watch it to find out!

Chris says:

08:17am | 08/12/11

It’s actually quite sad the barrage of negative responses to Mick’s post.  Christianity in Australia has traditionally been plagued more by apathy than the outright antagonism that is evident in the replies.

It is irrelevant whether Christ was born on 25 December or at some other time of year, just as the history of a celebration around Christmas time is irrelevant.  Presently (and for quite some time now) Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Christ.

I don’t suggest non-Christians should go to work - that’s like suggesting non-monarchists should work on the Queen’s birthday holiday.

However, for those of you intent on “celebrating” the time off by accumulating more junk that you don’t need, getting repeatedly drunk and eating as much as you can - I feel sorry for you.  If the sum of all your almighty atheistic arguments about God is that your goals are all hedonistic, then your lives simply have no meaningful purpose.

Spending time with family is nice, but ultimately if you don’t believe Christmas has a larger meaning there is no reason why spending time with your family now should be any different to spending time with your family in August.

I for one will be trying to spend some quiet time (hard to come by these days) thinking about how I can serve God in the upcoming year.

Erica says:

08:04pm | 07/12/11

They’re a bloody horrible company to work for though

Markus says:

09:10am | 07/12/11

I’ve never met a religious person of any faith as bigoted, ill-informed and ignorant as half of the ‘atheists’ I have had the misfortune of knowing.

Mayday says:

09:39am | 07/12/11

@ Markus ill-informed and ignorant on what?

If you referring to religious teachings I am simply not interested wasting time on drivel.

What a bigoted statement!

Al says:

10:05am | 07/12/11

The realy funny thing with the Religion v’s Athiest argument is that NEITHER side can be proved right.
To rule in or out a ‘God’ type figure without evidence either way is as bad as each other.
This is why I am more Agnostic than Athiest.
There may or may not be a God, I am waiting for evidence either way. (Of course it SHOULD be easier to prove the existence of a God/s rather than the non-existence as abscence of proof does not equal proof of abscence!)
Get back to me when you have proof either way, otherwise keep your opinions and and unsupported beliefs your own please.

MarkS says:

11:10am | 07/12/11

@Al
I can prove that a benign all powerful all knowing God does not exist. Evil exists there said God cannot exist. All the reasons proposed as to why this is not the case are rubbish.

I cannot prove that supernatural beings with powers unknown & indeed unknowable by people do not exist. In fact I suspect they may.

Al says:

11:37am | 07/12/11

MarkS,
Unfortunately your assumption is that the ‘God’ figure is benign.
While many religions claim this is the case it may not be (or is even likely to not be) true.
It could be that the ‘God’ figure simply doesn’t care or even enjoys conflict. (There have been MANY religions throughout history that include these types of figures).
In my comment I wasn’t speaking about a specific religion or God figure derived from them.
Athiests don’t claim that no religion has the right representation of god, they claim there is no god, big difference.

Al says:

12:14pm | 07/12/11

MarkS,
Another point is this.
A god that requires followers to have faith can’t simply remove ALL evil from the world. To do so would remove peoples ability to make a choice and thereby negate any faith that they have.
Its a simple concept really.
A god that requires faith or a choice to believe also requires that the subject (humans) have the necassary freedom to make that choice.

MarkS says:

02:29pm | 07/12/11

@Al
You miss the point.

Frogs cannot see see a fly that flies away from it. The signal does not get transmitted from the eye to the brain. The concept of a fly flying away simply does not exist for a frog. Chimp’s are much smarter than Frogs, but regardless of that they are incapable of conceiving many things that human beings are capable of conceiving.

Indeed most people are simply incapable of understanding higher order maths & physics. Free will cannot exist in relation to something you cannot understand or conceive. I have no doubt that there are things that no human is capable of understanding or conceiving of, but by definition this cannot be proven, it is the unknowable unknown.

But why would the universe be ordered in such a way that the smartest humans are just able to understand everything about it, sounds unlikely. Indeed given the Flynn effect, that is that the average intelligence of a society increases over time with improved lifestyle, it is almost certain that there was no one whatsoever until recently in the overall history of Homo Sapiens that was capable of understanding modern higher maths & physics. In the future our descendants will be capable of understanding things we cannot.

Would a benign all powerful all knowing God create people that where capable of conceiving evil? It is possible that such a creature had reasons I am incapable of understanding, but I can only stand on my own feet, I can only judge that such a creature cannot be benign. Benign is a human word after all.

I do not deny that there may be powerful supernatural (supernatural in the sense that they are not understandable by humans) beings that some may call Gods. I refuse to worship them, or call them Gods & I would do so even if they appeared & proved their power & existence. 

I suspect that such creatures, that is lifeforms beyond our understanding exist, but doubt they would even notice us, for which we should be very thankful. If you notice vermin you kill them & I do not notice or care if the vermin worship me.

So maybe I do not fit your definition of an Atheist, nevertheless I consider myself an Atheist.

BigAngryRon says:

04:56pm | 07/12/11

I do not understand how atheists think the “if evil exists there can’t be a god” argument disproves anything. I also don’t have any time for those who say god is a solely loving and caring god.

According to the Bible, God is prone to outbursts of anger, often overly affectionate, does some seriously crazy stuff and will mess you up if you get on his bad side. He completely ruins some poor guys life just to win a bet! We either got the insane god, the short-bus god or a god who is in his toddler years. Look at the platypus, and tell me that that was designed by someone completely sane.

PW says:

09:29pm | 07/12/11

Al says:11:05am | 07/12/11

“The realy funny thing with the Religion v’s Athiest argument is that NEITHER side can be proved right…..
There may or may not be a God, I am waiting for evidence either way”

The really funny thing in my opinion is that while I can see the “evidence” pretty much every minute of every day, there are seemingly intelligent people who clearly can’t, don’t or won’t see it. They take things for granted because they are always there and always have been.

Al, have a look around you sometime. Try to imagine it’s all new to you. What do you see? OK probably a lot that was made by Man depending on where you look but try looking for things that weren’t made by man. Even look at your own mortal body if you like. Everything has a reason, everything has a purpose. Everything is meticulously designed to fit in with everything else. If a system gets altered by Man or nature a new system takes its place. All this cannot possibly have just happened by some sort of chance. Something made it happen.

Steve_85 says:

10:03am | 07/12/11

Actually I will be working on that day (xmas), and I will not be buying presents. I also usually work during Easter, and rarely buy chocolate for it. Having said that, it is a public holiday, regardless of who is claiming to ‘own’ it and most people get to spend the time with their families.

I actually practice what I preach and do not celebrate religious holidays. At best they’re an excuse for a BBQ/piss up. My family does the whole presents thing, but only a few go to church… and most of those are not exactly thrilled about it.

I also fail to see how you can call any of those who do celebrate on that day hypocrites, since xmas (and easter for that matter)  was a stolen and re-branded pagan holiday anyway.

Kika says:

11:07am | 07/12/11

Ah, Merry Xmas… you do realise that it’s highly unlikely Jesus was born on Christmas, and the actual festival we celebrate with the trees and the holly and decorations is an old german/celtic festival designed to celebrate the winter solstice. It also so happens to be right smack bang in between Hanukkah… just as Easter is smack bang in the middle of the old Spring celtic festival time and Passover….

Christmas isn’t really about Christ…

Al says:

11:22am | 07/12/11

Merry Xmas,
That sounds like a good idea, however with most workplaces the employees are not actualy given a choice on whether to work those days or not.
The IR system allows for an employer and employee to agree to substitute another day for a public holiday, but many employers don’t want to do this.
Doing work when you have been directed to not attend would generaly be considered to be on a genuinely voulantary basis and be UNPAID, so why would employees do it?

Gomez12 says:

11:39am | 07/12/11

You must know some pretty childist athiests then.

I won’t claim to speak for any but my family, many of whom are in fact dedicated christians. But most aren’t. Like a lot of families these days there’s the usual mix of christians, athiests, agnostics and one or two others (specifically two hindu’s a jew, a muslim (and her mum) and a buddhist - religion is usually not discussed).

But Xmas is special, it’s the one time of year we pretty much all get an extended break from work at the same time (Xmas-New year) and can get together as a family. It’s especially important to us as for the rest of the year our family is spread over most states of Aust and several countries around the world.

If you’re such a dedicated Christian, go right ahead and celebrate the birth of Christ. Several in my family will as well.

But the rest of us will treasure the opportunity to catch up with family and some close friends, enjoy the good times, a feast a laugh and a few drinks, and maybe even a game of backyard cricket.

For me your rant is like saying New-years isn’t a specifically Christian festival so you should be at work while us non-christians take the opportunity to ring in the new year. But I hope you go out and have a good time anyway!

In the end, who owns it, what it’s origins “really” are doesn’t matter - ‘tis the season to be jolly, and for goodwill to all mankind!

Merry Xmas mate, to you and yours, and a happy new years to follow (from one of those disgusting Athiests)

Al says:

02:31pm | 07/12/11

Ah yes, the Sanat presence.
“Mum, how can Sanat be at this (enter retail outlet here) and (enter another retail outlet here) and (enter another retail outlet here) all at the same time and still get all those presents, naughty and nice lists, covert surveilance of millions of people and reindeer ready for Christmas eve?”
Not to mention the “What does Santa need the money for?” questions.

Beth says:

04:17pm | 07/12/11

I don’t know the full details, but I think the photo company who come with Santa hire the space from Myer and they are the ones who decide the charge…

Chris says:

07:54am | 08/12/11

I think the issue people have is paying $20 for a $0.20 photo.  The markup is extraordinary, even for photos.  That said, at least you aren’t charged a “sitting fee”...

Q says:

09:23am | 08/12/11

The cost of the actual photo is irrelevant.  If you were to pay just the cost you would have to provide your own props and costume, dress as Santa, take the photo yourself and you wouldn’t be doing it your local shopping center.  How mean of all those businesses to make a profit and then pay you a wage!  How awful of them to collect tax so that you can drive on nice roads, send your kids to school, go to the hospital, get unemployment benefits or a pension.  Sick of the rip off mentality!  It shows how small minded and lazy we are getting.