When busloads of people descended on Canberra to protest against the carbon tax in March, signs in the crowd said “Juliar” was “Bob Brown’s bitch”. They said they wanted to “ditch the witch” and told Labor they wanted to “shove the tax up your ass”.

.No this wasn't today, this was in March

I was there. The protesters were mad as hell and they weren’t going to take it anymore. And boy, were they loud about it.

The entire crowd would erupt in spontaneous chanting of “Liar! Liar! Liar!” Some protesters got stuck into a few young people for looking like “GetUp spies”. A few extremists handed out pamphlets blaming the Queen and the British Empire for the carbon tax.

The March rally didn’t really help the protesters’ cause. Afterwards, all the media discussed about the rally were whether these people were extremists, if they were some kind of Australian Tea Party and if they were making Australian political discourse an angrier arena than ever.

This morning it sounded like the organisers had learnt their lesson.

They put a gigantic banner behind the stage so no one could place an offensive sign behind Tony Abbott. They said the rally wouldn’t be as inflammatory. It wouldn’t seem as angry.

So who did they get to MC the rally?

ANGRY. ANDERSON. Angry isn’t even his middle name, it’s his FIRST name. Anderson screamed about how democracy was dead. Oversized coffin prop and all. All because the government is introducing a tax on pollution.

Australians are generally a reasonable people. A lot of people don’t like the carbon tax. Plenty don’t like the fact that the Prime Minister was not particularly honest about it before the last election.

That’s fair enough. If they don’t like it, they can and should protest about it.

But if these rallies were really ever going to win over the Australian people, what they should’ve done is, in the words of Theodore Roosevelt, “speak softly and carry a big stick”. Not just rage.

And when you look closely, it’s interesting to see just who is speaking softly behind the scenes of these rallies.

The Tea Party in the United States is known for its links to established political figures. The “no carbon tax” movement is no different.

The SA Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi is behind the organisation “CanDo” (or the Conservative Action Network Do), a sort of Facebook for conservatives that has been involved in organising the protests.

He’s also behind a prominent conservative blog that helped bring together the coalition of small groups that are rallying against the carbon tax. 

Bernardi denies he does much more than support the groups with infrastructure. But in light of the fact he’s the personal parliamentary secretary to Tony Abbott, it sure looks like he’s had a big stake in building up the movement against the Gillard government.

That’s not to say the protests are entirely propped up by politicians. They’re not.

The rallies were largely organised by a couple of ex-builders from Sydney’s western suburbs. Chris Johnson and Jacques Laxale of the so-called “Consumers and Taxpayers Association” lost thousands of dollars to the government’s bungled Green Loans scheme.

They’d been looking to make an extra buck or two. But they found they’d wasted a big chunk of their savings getting accreditation to work as home assessors under the scheme when the government pulled the plug on it.

They’re angry because they lost money and because they don’t think the Labor government is responsible with its finances. That’s fair enough.

But they’re not speaking softly. They’re just smacking the government with their big stick.

And the thing about hitting things with sticks is that they’re a pretty juvenile weapon to use. Generally they break.

173 comments

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    • James says:

      02:21pm | 18/08/11

      I wonder what all those folk being at the carbon tax rally did to poker machine revenues

    • Matt says:

      03:08pm | 17/08/11

      The media always shows the most extreme people in the crowd of protesters and the anti carbon tax protest was a perfect example.
        I was at the pro gay marriage rally in Melbourne and most of the crowd were your average Australian , the guys were masculine and the girls feminine but low and behold the 6pm news showed only the most etreme sterotypical gay men and lesbians etc..
      The news has turned into a well produced reality TV show directed to the majority to induce fear and to dumb everyone down.

    • Mikko says:

      01:50pm | 17/08/11

      So carbon tax protestors are bogans wielding a big stick and some even had nasty signs again saying Ditch the Bitch. Oh, the shame. I guess all the lefty union rallies against various Howard policies with signs calling him Hitler or worse were all progressive political intellectuals, not that the media had anything bad to say at the time. Meanwhile the crowd of 5000 yesterday was nothing compared with the one which will converge on Canberra next week in the 11 Convoys of No Confidence in the Federal Government organised by the National Road Freighters Association, not Cori Bernardi grin

    • Kipling says:

      09:05am | 17/08/11

      Now it will be interesting to see when the Liberal party forms Government again what excuses will be marched out to avoid doing away with another revenue raising tax.
      That will be the true test.
      It is interesting to observe that “hippies” protesting to protect stupid things like trees and wildlife are often filmed being dragged away (passively) by police. Not so much of that going on with this protest though.
      Probably a good thing, probably…

    • Daniel says:

      08:26am | 17/08/11

      If that was what the crowd was like there in Canberra. Why did bother attending? I knew that that was what it was going to be like there. “Rent a crowd”.

    • Dark Horse says:

      07:41am | 17/08/11

      Some Australians are smart enough to see this tax for what it really is; an attempt to redistribute wealth and provide much needed income for a high spending, high debt government. It won’t do Jack Shit for the environment and the amount of carbon Australia contributes to the atmosphere is so small it’s difficult to measure. It’s another con job.

    • paulh says:

      07:23am | 17/08/11

      we have tree hugging loonies climbing trees to stop them being cut down, we have green loonies destroying crops, we have student marches we have pro carbon tax marches, sorry day marches,union marches etc etc but as soon as REAL people decide to complain about something they are ridiculed.This rally regardless of who attended it is NOT a minority group,NOT based on a politically correct minority namby pamby demand or tree hugging wish list,it is because the Carbon Tax is based on NUMEROUS LIES, the Carbon tax is a futile political gesture that will result in Aus having the HIGHEST carbon tax in the world,the ONLY economy wide tax and the modelling is based on $20 a tonne yet the tax is $23 the compensation based on $20 a tonne yet tax is $23 a tonne.The tax will rise the amount of companies paying will rise the amount the public will pay will rise,the compensation will NOT rise.Our economy will shrink and global temps will NOT be effected at all.China’s emissions GROW more in a MONTH than Australias Annual emissions total.This is based on a LIE and people,regardless of how they look are entightled to rally and speak out.Ridiculing people because their opinion differs from yours is poor to say the least.

    • Ryan says:

      12:21am | 17/08/11

      “But if these rallies were really ever going to win over the Australian people, what they should’ve done is, in the words of Theodore Roosevelt, “speak softly and carry a big stick”. Not just rage. “

      But we get arrested for carrying big sticks, Australia is dis-armed nation - it’s pathetic.  We don’t have to be excessively armed like the USA, but when it’s against the law to defend our families…  much less bring any force to bear on a government that needs a good spanking.

    • Samantha says:

      10:24pm | 16/08/11

      “ARGGHHHH!!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!. Quick pay some money so the sky doesn’t fall!!....”

      Can someone please explain who would continously pay for a product that does not work just to keep the said company working just in case and for the sake of the grand children?........why does this not make any sense at all…..??? 

      To the so called younger generation…remember that you will repeat the words of the older generation one you attain their years of experience and knowledge. Right at the moment you think you are invincible and know it all…ha!! are you in for a big surprise…

    • Fed Up says:

      09:21pm | 16/08/11

      Dan, you just don’t get it do you? These people are frustrated and yeah that makes them angry when they see a government that wastes a fortune on so much, has helped to destroy our industries by being so “warm, fuzzy and friendly to the foreign investors” of the world who just want to take everything they can out of us and leave us with nothing. Yeah you bet they are angry and so am I and a heck of a lot of other people I know. The carbon tax is just an example of this Gillard dictator style government that inflicts it’s obsessions on it’s people. I’ve had enough and I want an election too.

    • Mik says:

      07:31pm | 16/08/11

      Voltaire
      “Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too.”
      and
      “Monsieur l’abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.”
      (Summarized by Hall as “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”)

    • Bill says:

      07:14pm | 16/08/11

      I dont understand why Australians would put the electricity bill ahead of our kids future….Australians are really showing how f..selfish they are with this issue-

      If these conservative cretins take over the idiots who are yelling “Ditch the bitch” wont know what hit em-remember, or have you all forgotten workchoices and other vile experiments the Liberals have forced on us? Get a life you morans.

    • Lyn says:

      10:36pm | 17/08/11

      I am worried for my kids future and that is why I was there because this isnot about CO2 abuilding block of life NOT a pollutant but about Making sure there is a country left to leave them. Carbon is needed to continue life ( the cycle is carbon to the plants and oxygen back to us) fact of science no matter what Gillard tells you. Look up the internet and research the subject fully and you will see the ocean will not cover us and all is well in the land if the Gov leaces it alone.

    • Splash the cash says:

      01:46am | 17/08/11

      Bill,
      Your comment disrespects Fellow Australians.

      If you cant understand why then understand this,
      That if you dislike what you see or hear, badluck for you. Whether your opinion is right or wrong it is irrelevent ,but you are entitled to it.

      What you and others seem to forget is that in a DEMOCRACY the MAJORITY RULES whether they be right or wrong and that pal
      is what Matters and is the upmost of importance
      They are starting to flex their Muscle and like it or not YOU I and ALL will accept the outcome.

    • nossy says:

      06:40pm | 16/08/11

      Hang in there Daniel - the old blogging world is a tough world and only the strong survive - you are doing well for someone only 2 weeks in - well done!

    • Johno says:

      06:24pm | 16/08/11

      Ah, Angry Anderson, loved your music in the olden days, but today, maybe you can go back and write a tune in about 3 years time , BROTHERS SISTERS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES, JUST LIKE WITCHES IN BLACK MASSES. Remember that song by BLACK SABBATH on the Vietnam War. Just like the Carbon Tax ,you may be winning the battle at the minute, but in the end YOU WILL LOSE THE WAR

    • Fiona says:

      07:49pm | 16/08/11

      My favourite part of this rally was when angry held up car keys that someone had dropped and asked people to check that they weren’t theirs.

    • Clark says:

      05:07pm | 16/08/11

      Oh joy, in an article titled “Attack of the Clones” we have the most stereotypical display of recycled inner-city-trendy ignorance, dripping with condescension and glowing arrogance. Must be hard to type with your nose so high in the air - careful not to spill your latte across your keypad Daniel. Clichéd douche.
      I’ve read this miss-the-point, off target, nit-picking article a thousand times before by a thousand other [*cough] “independent writers”. Same snobbery, same unwarranted elitism, same carbon-copy script. - pun intended. Who’s the clone? - keep being unique. tool.

    • Clark says:

      08:15pm | 16/08/11

      @ Adam Smith, perhaps you should review your own works ... http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html  feel free to pass this on to Daniel and “his generation” who apparently have skipped that portion of free market economies in their uni courses.
      Amazing how in all the other sciences, progress is built on existing knowledge, however in the social / political sciences each new generation feels like they have to re-invent the socio-economic wheel… so here we go again.

    • Mattb says:

      06:54pm | 16/08/11

      Shit mate, you’ve gotta seriously cut back on the coffee Clark….

    • Adam Smith says:

      05:52pm | 16/08/11

      @ Clark. I’m still trying to find the point of your post, beside the extremist name-calling rant. You’ll find that Daniel is quite representative of his generation. You’re just another Dinosaur mate. Get extinct.

    • Margaret Hamilton says:

      04:58pm | 16/08/11

      Charles in Toorak says: 04:35pm | 16/08/11
      “These protesters should be sticking it to the direct action plan too”

      Interesting isnt it - they ignore Abbotts carbon tax, which has the support of no scientists or economists & treats the free market with contempt

    • CJ says:

      04:54pm | 16/08/11

      I’ve been watching Tony Abbott closely now for a couple of years and I think I know what the guy is all about:
      He hates tax
      He hates greenies
      He hates pink bats
      He hates school halls
      He hates lies
      He loves jobs
      He loves miners
      He loves truckies
      He hates levies
      He loves levies
      He loves tax cuts
      He hates big government
      He loves small government
      He hates carbon
      He loves cycling
      He loves God
      He hates the devil
      He hates gay marriage
      He loves “ordinary mums and dads”
      He loves John Howard
      He hates Paul Keating
      He hates unions
      He loves workers
      He loves babies
      He loves virginity
      He hates the ABC
      He hates “the boats”
      He hates “queue jumpers”
      He loves the teachings of Jesus
      He hates Malaysia
      He loves Naru
      He loves cattle
      He hates animal cruelty
      He loves farmers
      He hates “great big new” stuff
      He hates abortion
      He loves the Catholic Church
      He hates Mark Riley
      He loves Alan Jones
      He loves Surf Life Saving
      He hates people smugglers
      He loves carefully prepared, written responses
      He hates details
      He hates bipartisanship
      He loves sound bites
      He loves disagreeing
      He hates climate change
      He hates “the science”
      He (secretly) loves “the boats”
      He loves his Speedos
      He loves what the Pope says
      He hates Muslims
      He hates the NBN
      He hates Malcolm Turnbul
      He loves “ahh, erm, argh, ehh”
      He loves “Grover”

    • Ron V. says:

      06:33pm | 19/08/11

      Jimmy G you poor soul. Where do you get your information from?. Must be the “HANDBOOK FOR IDIOT LABOR MEMBERS”, which has to be learned and remembered before entering Parliament. Do you and CJ share the same computer?.Do as I suggested to CJ, find yourself a quiet corner and give yourself an uppercut.

    • Ron V. says:

      08:57pm | 18/08/11

      CJ; does that stand for ” CUDDLING our JULIE”. Your a moron. Find yourself a quiet corner and give yourself a good uppercut. By the way,which branch of the Labor Party do you belong to. Bet you had 50 or so mates to help you make up your list and I know that if we turned you around twice you couldn’t remember five of them. Actually I was going to call you a P@@@K instead of a moron, but they’re useful.

    • Splash the cash says:

      12:51pm | 17/08/11

      CJ,
      Interesting, all the effort that you have put in in tracking Abbott for 2 years,
      But it must piss you off Though, that out of all the observations on your list , IT WILL ALWAYS BE TRUMPED by that one sentence,till the next elecion,
       
              That there will be No Carbonn Tax Under the Govt. I Lead.

    • Brad says:

      09:18pm | 16/08/11

      CJ, that is what I love & hate as well. The majority of Australians too. You better get used to it. Tony Abbott will lead the Liberal’s to Government in 2013. In 2023 Labor will have its chance again.

    • stephen says:

      08:17pm | 16/08/11

      T.A. is of two minds : on the one hand he wants to be credible, honest and PM ; on the other is his responsibilities to Catholicism.
      He should decide whether he wants to be a Priest, or Prime Minister.
      Having said that though, if Julia isolates The Greens with respect to illegal immigrants and GE foods, (which I think will be a hot topic soon enough) then the Independants will rally, and Labor will be in office until the next election.

    • Jimmy G says:

      05:19pm | 16/08/11

      But CJ - he is so much more than that. He thought the science was crap but regretted that Howard didnt ratify Kyoto (as we all know, Howard signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1997) - he admitted he never read any of the science - not the IPCC Synthesis report, not Ian Plimers book - and admits he prefers to get his information on the science from the popular press.

      Abbott is the human chameleon - he seems to stand for nothing and everything , whatever the focus groups tell him so goes his soul

    • Jimmy G says:

      04:54pm | 16/08/11

      ” if they were some kind of Australian Tea Party”  Actually Daniel, its interesting to read the website of the Australian Tea Party & groups affiliated with it . A remarkable collection of anti-science, anti-Muslim, anti-tax individuals that seem to share the same paranoid conspiracy theories about how this is all a global socialist plot to bring about a new world order under the UN.
      The bigots who run talk back radio love this movement - lets face it, Alan Jones, Chris Smith & the rest of the conga line make easy money out of an audience that is scared, ill informed & extremely bigoted - the Fox News formula

    • graham says:

      04:53pm | 16/08/11

      Are you the same people who abandoned Howard, (big time!), and Costello and Abbott, and swung to the ALP in droves? And now you are sorry because you say your choice was a bummer? Are you all saying that you can’t read politics? And yet you are also saying that we should all listen to you and benefit from your political expertise?
      Oh, I see. You are all swinging voters, and you yay or nay according to policies. Well that’s sensible of you, but how does that have you swinging back to the Mad Monk? His policy is “Don’t have a policy”.
      Of course you will, as you have done many times in the past, complain about truckies blocking the roads, bringing Australia to a halt, interfering with the rights of uninvolved Australians and on and on ad nauseum, won’t you? No? Golly gosh, what a surprise.
      Everyone has the right to protest in this country, as long as it is done in a non-violent manner. This takeover of the nation’s roads will, according to the threat that 15,000 trucks will take part, cost at least $15,000,000. And it is supposed to be a protest about money-wasting. Give us a break.
      Them truckies sure must have more money than they tell us when they say how often they’ve got to ‘get a little help from their friends’.

    • Shifter says:

      04:44pm | 16/08/11

      I can’t believe there’s an article on protesting which forgoes the notion of burning effigies.

      One might also infer the author is tactfully mentioning rioting as an escalation technique to protests that thus far have not worked.

    • Charles in Toorak says:

      04:35pm | 16/08/11

      These protesters should be sticking it to the direct action plan too, I can’t believe Tony Abbott has also been conned.
      I wish he would come out and tell us what he really believes on this, lots of momentum to be gained.

    • Against the Man says:

      04:44pm | 16/08/11

      Yup, Anubis, I posted a link about that last week maybe. But the ALP zombies don’t want to hear about it. I mean they can’t bear to watch their pseudo-policy successes (Malaysian solution and Health) turn out to be some real time major policy f@#k ups.

      The ALP boys must sure hate the interweb smile

    • Anubis says:

      04:17pm | 16/08/11

      AtM - That is not the only problem with these new Super Clinics. It was recently reported that the Tax Department has decided that the Grants given to develop these clinics are taxable income (at the rate of 38%). One GP who received a million dollar grant to develop a Super Clinic invested it all in to the clinic and then got hit with a $380,000 tax bill.  Not really an incentive for the development of new clinics is it?

    • Johnno says:

      03:49pm | 16/08/11

      Why are these people so vicious? Their comments drip with vitriol and spite, just like the comments of many of the speakers at these rallies.
      I was at the Port Macquarie rally and was shocked at the hatred and the bitterness that pervaded the air. Barnaby ranted and raved till he turned red and the spittle around his mouth started to look like froth.
      As for these comments, Christos calls the elected Govt a Dictatorship (you voted didnt you?) and Anna C has had a bad day ... and is playing the man instead of the ball.
      No wonder they call the internet the cowards castle.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      03:35pm | 16/08/11

      The stupid part about it is that they are protesting about a tax they won’t be paying and they are demanding more pollution.

      Stupid as sheep really.

    • Lyn says:

      10:25pm | 17/08/11

      What electricity will not go up our jobs wont be lost if this stupid tax goes through.I know my company will lose work if this tax goes through and jobs will go. Who said anything about wanting more pollution. I would agree to doing something about pollution but CO2 is not. the planet could do with more because it helps plants and trees grow. Real pollution on the other ahnd is not being decussed. All schools and Tafe’s are teaching false science and not telling the true picture because it suits Gillard> She needs the money coming in to pay for all the mess they got us into.  I have seen the rubbish they are teaching in Tafe because I did a legal course my daughter is doing a Account course and we were both given a unit on the Substainability and your carbon footprint. nothing to do with the subjects we were doing but given to all.  Leftwing propergannda.

    • neil says:

      04:26pm | 16/08/11

      The tax has nothing to do with pollution it’s a tax on carbon dioxide an essential ingredient for life, this is about wealth redistribution.

      The sheep are the ones too stupid to see that.

    • iansand says:

      04:16pm | 16/08/11

      In NSW domestic electricity consumption has fallen be 2% pa over the last couple of years.  The electricity company spokesthing I heard (on the biased ABC, of course - it may not have made it to News Ltd publications) seemed to think it had something to do with price signals.

    • Anubis says:

      04:01pm | 16/08/11

      I am yet to see any one “demanding more pollution.”. You are getting more absurd with every post Marilyn. They are quite rightly protesting a new tax being levied on the country disguised as an environmental action. Both Garnaut and Flannery are on record as stating that this will do nothing to alleviate environmental problems. The Government itself has acknowledged that our Co2 emissions will continue to rise regardless of the tax.

      As for “a tax they won’t be paying” - how deluded are you? As the carbon price will be levied on key economic inputs such as power, gas and transportation there will be a knock on effect on the prices of all goods and services. Power companies will just pass the costs on to consumers. Manufacturers will incorporate their increased prices into their goods when they onsell them. Transportation and distribution costs will increase due to increased fuel charges and these costs will be passed on to retailers. Retailers will have increased costs due to power and gas increases and these will be passed on. By the time goods (food included) reaches the consumer there will be at least 4 maybe 5 applications of increased costs over the price of goods, these are compunded and levied at every stage. Every person in Australia who buys any product, food item or service will be paying this tax. Already places like McDonalds have increased their prices across the board (reported in yesterdays papers) to cover the last round of energy cost increases. Do you really think they will hold back when the Carbon Tax increases come in? Not likely.

      Marilyn, please step away from the keyboard, go back to your world of unicorns, rainbows and fairies at the bottom of the garden and at least engage a few braincells before you post any more of your uninformed drivel on the forum.

    • maus says:

      03:10pm | 16/08/11

      Why don’t all of these protestors go and get a job? - as I was frequently told to do during protests against some of the more outrageous policies of the Howard Government.

    • Chris L says:

      03:43pm | 16/08/11

      Protests by lefties don’t count Maus, they’re just “rent a crowds” or “professional protesters” according to many people here who are defending their own right to protest.

    • christos says:

      03:05pm | 16/08/11

      We are protesting against being forced into something we did not vote for, we are being forced into many things without our consent, this is not democracy.
      We don’t want a Dictator ruling us !
      Call us anything you like it won’t matter because we are waiting with sledgehammers at the next Election.
      You all know it’s true, that’s why you are all making fun of it.

    • B says:

      12:22am | 18/08/11

      @  Steve Putnam

      Millions?  I think you may need to have your head read mate.  Its was NOT millions.  Your looking at around 5000-6000 people.  Around the same amount.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:37pm | 16/08/11

      Did you get out and protest when the Howard Government sent our soldiers over to Iraq to fight in a war based on lies and greed? Over a million people took to the streets across the country to make its views known to Canberra to no avail. Makes the 4-5,000 (official police estimate) that turned out to protest the pricing of carbon last time round seem like a drop in the bucket.

    • Andrew says:

      04:11pm | 16/08/11

      But what if some people did vote for it? What if they voted for the ALP because they thought they would be more likely to take action against this specific issue. Because they are getting their way they tend to be a bit quiet and not complain.

      What if those votes are actually the majority? I know i am in favour of the tax, i have never been asked by newspoll who i support, i would think there would be many who also are in this situation.

      Speak for yourself, you are entitled to do that, but don’t speak for me.

      We don’t have a dictator, we voted for individual people to represent us, one side managed to come up with a majority and the other didn’t. Thats democracy.

      Also, the only problem here is that the party that forms government gets to prove they are dishonest whilst the opposition pretends they are completley truthful. If the liberals formed government i dare say we would be seeing similar things about lies and liars but aimed at Tony instead of Julia. Thats the problem.

      Neither party are honest and only look after themselves politically.

      Tony Abbot may say his role is to oppose but as like all elected officials, i would say his real role is to act in the best interests of the country. neither the ALP/Liberals, Left/Right, progressive/conservative are doing that, but i would say that the ALP has probably been doing it just a little bit more than the liberals.

    • maus says:

      03:34pm | 16/08/11

      I was ‘forced’ into doing many things that I absolutely did not consent to during the Howard years. Sadly, Christos, democracy doesn’t mean you get what you want all the time.

    • TimB says:

      02:59pm | 16/08/11

      “But if these rallies were really ever going to win over the Australian people…,”

      Sorry Daniel, but the majority of people are already won over.  This isn’t about winning people over, it’s about sending a message to the government.

      And lets face it, the louder they are, the more likely it is that they’ll get their message through.

    • Occam's Blunt Razor says:

      02:53pm | 16/08/11

      Dear Daniel,

      You may recall a group called One Nation.  They arose because people had been “speaking softly” and had been ignored so the “big stick” in the form of One Nation.

      I would prefer to see protest rallies where all the kooks get to say their piece than the reignition of One Nation.

      People spoke softly and teh Coalition ended up in Opposition with pissweak leaders who almost sold the farm.  Fortuntely the white hot anger of the silent majority forced the Libs to appoint a leader who reflects the wishes of the Voters (God forbid - how dare he?)

      When people sledge me on the sporting field, it’s always nice to be able to point at the score board.  The Greens/ALP may be reigning Premies but have a look at th score board, son.  less than 30% of people would vote for the ALP right now.

    • Hugo says:

      03:07pm | 16/08/11

      Yes indeed OBZ – a political party did arise choosing to use the loud voice big stick approach. Tell me OBZ how is that political party doing now? Your post seems to back Daniel’s point.

    • Anna C says:

      02:53pm | 16/08/11

      Oh poor Daniel, are the big, bad protestors being mean to your government again? Poor diddums.

    • Alex Wasson says:

      02:49pm | 16/08/11

      Reading these articles on the punch is like reading my old university newspaper. Seriously. Cocky know it alls putting everyone down but with no idea of where to stand and thus relying on criticism of everything as an artform to cover a total lack of knowledge.

    • RyaN says:

      02:45pm | 16/08/11

      Yawn, more left wing dropkicks attempting to discredit the opinion of the MAJORITY with their minority views.

      “But if these rallies were really ever going to win over the Australian people” newsflash sunshine, these people are representative of the Australian people, YOU are NOT!

    • Majority says:

      03:06pm | 16/08/11

      Please dont speak for me.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:43pm | 16/08/11

      You think the carbon tax is a tax on pollution?  You think the carbon tax is going to start solving those problems?

      You poor deluded fool.  You, as a supporter of the tax, should be incensed that the government has ripped you off.  This has nothing to do with reducing emissions.  How can this possibly reduce emissions when people are being compensated not to change?

      Open your eyes.

    • Anichol says:

      08:15pm | 16/08/11

      Open YOUR eyes Elphaba!
      If coal fired electricity cost’s as much as cleaner alternative’s then people will change and with increased interest in these alternatives their prices will drop.
      Very simple isnt it?
      You are the fool for being so short sighted.

    • Against the Man says:

      02:42pm | 16/08/11

      Please promote the Gillard anger and hate. Lovin it!

    • Knemon says:

      04:53pm | 16/08/11

      Good call ATM.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      02:37pm | 16/08/11

      I’d be okay if they were protesting because it is a very badly designed and implemented carbon tax that mutates into a ETS, but most are protesting because of their hip pocket and / or they’re LNP stooges. Forget any high minded ideals in this protest….

    • Fiona says:

      07:39pm | 16/08/11

      Sadly Shane, protests against those big companies tend to be individual ones and as such don’t usually attract much attention.
      Anna c, my kids have said your last sentence to me.

    • fml says:

      05:33pm | 16/08/11

      Thats because you are labelled communist shane if you don’t let big business have their way with you.

      Just close your eyes and think of Abbott.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      03:58pm | 16/08/11

      I don’t see anyone protesting and rallying against Coles / Woolworth duopoly, or the big bad petrol companies or the Banks when they put up interest rates. Oh, it’s only when the government affects our hip pockets? And an ALP government at that. When it is a LNP government we are supposed to bend over and take it from big business…....

    • Anna C says:

      03:18pm | 16/08/11

      Shane From Melbourne, what the hell is wrong with people protesting against government policies which will have a detrimental effect on their hip pockets? Why are people only supposed to rally in support of high minded ideals? Who the hell are you to tell people when they can and cannot protest? Who made you the boss of everything?

    • Notvelty says:

      02:29pm | 16/08/11

      Excellent article, Daniel.  It was almost as good as the one you wrote on GetUp… oh wait.

    • Vossy says:

      03:57pm | 16/08/11

      Yep, amazing how this can get published. Im surprised there’s no Australian Government Disclaimer at the bottom.

    • Notvelty says:

      03:39pm | 16/08/11

      You had plenty of room in the above article to include a swipe at the, very-well-known GetUp and chose not to.  Had you done so, the article would have been balanced.  Heck, I’d probably have agreed with it.
      But you did not.  You took aim at once side.

      There’s a word for that.

    • Chris L says:

      03:37pm | 16/08/11

      Don’t take the criticism personally Daniel. If you don’t agree with everything that comes from the right wing that makes you a latte sipping leftie. Nothing to be done about it.

    • Anna C says:

      03:25pm | 16/08/11

      Well Daniel, next time GetUp or some other leftie organisation organises a protest I will expect an article criticising them for doing so. I won’t be holding my breath though.

    • Daniel Piotrowski

      Daniel Piotrowski says:

      03:08pm | 16/08/11

      Probably because there’s no GetUp rally today. Probably because I’ve been employed here for two weeks and haven’t had a chance to write stuff about everyone under the sun.

    • Anna C says:

      03:00pm | 16/08/11

      Yeah Daniel, I don’t see you writing an article chastising professional protestors like GetUp for organising their protests. How come?  Why the double standard? Why is it legitimate for organisations such as GetUp to organise protests but not for other people or organisations to do the same?

    • N8 says:

      02:27pm | 16/08/11

      “All because the government is introducing a tax on pollution.”

      No they are not. Carbon Dioxide is not pollution. Agree with the tax or don’t, but the termanology is wrong and highly deceptive if used as such.

    • fml says:

      03:04pm | 16/08/11

      Carbon monoxide is.

    • Ella says:

      03:01pm | 16/08/11

      I tend to think pollution is kind of like feral animals. They are just animals, perfectly natural, in the right place and context they are harmless, but if they are put in the wrong environment and are now overrunning the place so much they are stopping natural processes then they become feral animals. Pollution is not pollution because of the nature of the pollutant, pollution is pollution because it is a thing where it shouldn’t be, in amounts that it shouldn’t be in. Hot water can be pollution in some contexts, anything can be pollution in the right context.

    • iansand says:

      02:23pm | 16/08/11

      Just following the money.

    • Anna C says:

      02:12pm | 16/08/11

      I don’t understand the point of this article? Last time I checked we were a democracy and were allowed to stage protests. Daniel are you saying that it is alright to rally for so called trendy issues such as Aboriginal rights, gay rights, support for the Carbon tax but not okay to protest about the Carbon tax and government mismanagement????

      Why are you equating protesting with “just smacking the government with their big stick.” The government isn’t some shrinking violent here. Why shouldn’t demonstrators seek to hold the government to account for its policy failures?

      Daniel, if you don’t like ordinary people protesting in the streets then I suggest you move to Syria or China.

    • Tim says:

      03:44pm | 16/08/11

      “Shrinking violent”?

    • Anna C says:

      03:32pm | 16/08/11

      “China is quite open now”. Yeah sure it is stevenj. Just don’t mention the Tiananmen Square massacre to them cause they can get a bit touchy if you do.

    • stevenj says:

      03:01pm | 16/08/11

      Anna, you don’t know much about China as I do. You can apply and organize peaceful protest and march, its legal smile, China is quite open now, unless you do something too political and again China government.

    • LC says:

      02:11pm | 16/08/11

      You’ll find that the reasons these people are decending on Canberra is not limited to the carbon tax.

    • Sick of this says:

      12:44pm | 18/08/11

      Hear Hear Lyn!

    • Lyn says:

      09:57pm | 17/08/11

      No it is the destruction of our country with everything this unelected Gov does that has people like me going to voice my opinion and that does not make me a bogan. Just middle Australia.

    • Freeman says:

      02:04pm | 16/08/11

      Here we go;

      have they really conducted themselves any worse than the typical anti war, anti conservative, anti capitalist crowd? far from it.

      this is about the only time you’ll see (mostly) conservatives rally against anything and some are looking for reasons to discredit it.  so what if you saw a few idiots with stupid placards and the desperate lefties want to label them extremists? it’s still a strong showing of opposition.

    • Freeman says:

      09:42am | 17/08/11

      Rocket surgeon,

      there was no trashing, no confrontation with police. they were nothing like the usual stupid kids we see disgracing themselves at rallies. But no, it’s not my cause and I’m not looking for any particlular look.

    • Rocket Surgeon says:

      09:18pm | 16/08/11

      @ Freeman. You’re right, they are no different to the anti war etc nut jobs. Is that really the look you’re after?

    • Babe in the Woods says:

      02:38pm | 16/08/11

      @Freeman, you voiced what I was wondering.  How many hysterical, chanting and screaming rallies/marches have we seen from unions, anti-war etc. and this is somehow OK.  Yes, there were idiots with placards.  News flash - - - there will always be idiots in any crowd.  Rather than sneer at the delivery, how about comment on the content.  I do not agree with what many of today’s marches / protests etc seek to portray (the slut walk comes to mind, eww!)  but it is a fundamental right.  Why do people seek the smug high ground, sneer at those with lesser vocabularies (like me) and somehow believe their point is proved?  Beware of the Bogans at the rally!  FFS, how many ‘Bogans’ are in a traditional union rally?  I have no idea, but then again, you commentators never seem to ask that.

    • Sick of This says:

      01:57pm | 16/08/11

      Smug much, Daniel?
      Too cowardly to outwardly admit you’re a left-leaner in your article, but too self-righteous to stop yourself from mocking people for exercising their right to freedom of speech and opinion.

      And Tim, Comment 1.. You say ‘The Bogans’...
      If I were in Canberra today, I would have been marching right along with them, protesting myself against this farce of a tax and I am not a ‘bogan’ as you put it. Your generalization is tiresome and predictable.

      At least the people at this rally, regardless of their socio-economic status, political beliefs, age or whatever else you want to pigeon hole them with, are up there - fighting for what they believe in.

      It used to be the Australian Way. Standing up for yourself, standing up for your mates, ensuring a ‘fair go’.

      These days, its apparently acceptable to sneer at those who are prepared to get off their backsides, get out of their workplaces and their homes, stop their lives for a little while and protest against a piece of legislation that will impact their lives, that they do not agree in.

      The same type of people stood up and fought for ALL OF US in this country years and years ago and the end result? We have some of the best working conditions in the western world. We certainly don’t dare to begrudge protesters who fought for our working rights. Why are we so quick to begrudge protesters who are standing up against a government decision that will impact us all? (No I am NOT an ALP or Green supporter)

      The armchair critics sneering at those who are standing up for what they believe is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’. Maybe one day you will have cause to look back and thank them for this, just like we all look back and thank those that fought for our working rights years ago.

      This country is barely a shade of what once made it great.

    • Martin says:

      03:01pm | 16/08/11

      @James1, that’s your opinion. As you admit, most of the protesters are average people, so hence they are not professional activists that groom their actions to suit the TV cameras.  That’s what gives these protests clout, because they show the Labor party the degree of dissatisfaction that is out there in the suburbs. Time to stop writing spin jobs calling them weirdos and start noticing that many of these people are Labor voters that are walking away from the Labor party probably for the first time.

    • James1 says:

      02:43pm | 16/08/11

      “This country is barely a shade of what once made it great.”

      It is this type of hyperbole that does the conservative cause a diservice, though.  I work in Parliament House, and have been down to check out the rally.  While there is a fair bit of that type of hyperbole - “Democracy is dead”, “Fight the Communists”, “Don’t let Juliar Giltard kill Australia” were some of the signs I saw - there are also a large number of average, reasonable people simply expressing their opposition to this tax.  That portion - which is by far the majority of those attending - is discredited to a degree by the more dramatic protesters.  As such, some of the protesters are actually damaging their own cause through their behaviour.

    • Ian1 says:

      01:57pm | 16/08/11

      I think it’s worth noting that tens of thousands of people are, and will be protesting outside our Capitol this week/month.

      Regardless of the opinion pieces of Labor apologists bent on painting these voters as extreme, or likening them to ‘The Tee Party’ in the US, they are just Aussie battlers. 

      To coordinate these numbers, which dwarf the union-hacktivists of the Labor pamphlet brigade, or the screwball GetUp Greenies, they’ve come from all over the country, from a swag of Aussie industries.

      This is purely a crowd who abject to being conned, and who cannot abide the transition from good governance to bad.

      Give them credit where it is due, the Australian people demand an election so that their voice might be heard.

    • B says:

      11:55pm | 17/08/11

      @Rick

      What a load.  You may aswell say the Labor government pays people to be members of Get Up.  It just as stupid and ignorant.

      Your ignorance is showing through like gaping hole.

    • Lyn says:

      10:08pm | 17/08/11

      I did not get a free trip the bus cost each of us$50 for the seat I bought my own lunch and took the day off work it is left wing protesters who have every thing supplied and paid for. My sign was made by me, as most others made their own.  I do not appreciate you or anyone telling me I was led by 2GB or anyone else. I can think for myself and can see a bad GOV when I see one.

    • TomZ says:

      10:13am | 17/08/11

      @Mattb, “So please ... provide your evidence ...” ... Err no.

      Rick is the one putting out all the theories. It is up to him to put up ,,, or get back in his box.

    • Toady says:

      08:17pm | 16/08/11

      This is just the way the Left operates.  Rick has obviously been to his indoctrination classes - toe the party line or you lose the government benefits.  Nasty name calling, branding everyone as rednecks, racists, shockjocks… you name it. 
      Easier to attack the man, rather than the ball.  It means they’ve got nothing in reply.  They are pathetic tax-wasting, socialist drones.

    • Mattb says:

      07:32pm | 16/08/11

      Gee hellfire, so much anger, how’s about instead of calling Rick a dickhead, wanker etc. you actually provide us all with the proof that ‘these people paid for everything themselves’. I wouldn’t have the slightest clue whether it’s you or Rick that is right from both your rants. So please enlighten us, don’t just write ‘that’s right you can’t!’, provide your evidence that these ‘people paid for everything themselves’ to attend the rally, as that would be these easiest way to show that Rick is the dickhead YOU claim he is. It makes your argument as weak as Rick’s…

    • hellfire says:

      05:12pm | 16/08/11

      Rick,
      Pull your head in you wanker, it started in the blogs actually, so that just shows your ignorance.
      People paid for everything themselves you dropkick, prove otherwise since you are so clever. Many could not afford it but managed to go anyway.
      That’s right you can’t !
      Your mob is finished because you won’t listen, just like Gillard .

    • Rick says:

      03:22pm | 16/08/11

      Sorry Kurisu Sonsaku, but the only thing I posted that was theory was the supposition that the placards had been provided, and the quip that they received a free lunch. The rest is all known fact from the event.

      Rev: exactly as useful as well

    • Rev says:

      02:45pm | 16/08/11

      Agreed Rick - just like when union members decide to take a day off!  I mean, I’d rather be standing around chanting ‘MUA here to stay’ than actually working as well.

    • Anna C says:

      02:35pm | 16/08/11

      I agree with you Ian1. Why are people painting these protestors as a bunch of extremists by likening them to the US’s Tea Party Movement? The Tea Party is a GRASS ROOTS movement made up of ordinary citizens. While I may not agree with a lot of what they have to say they have as much right to be heard as anyone else.

      I think Daniel and his crew are pissed off because these protestors are organising an attention grabbing truck convoy to descend on Canberra (amongst other things) rather than just some boring protest organised by professional protesters like GetUp.

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      02:30pm | 16/08/11

      @Rick ICB on your steaming pile of typing, ease up on the conspiracy theory it makes you look silly.

    • Rick says:

      02:06pm | 16/08/11

      No this is purely a crowd drummed up by Sydney radio shock jocks and shipped to Canberra specifically to make noise in line with the afore-mentioned shock jocks’ agenda. It wouldn’t suprise me if the signs and placards were provided on the trip down the Hume.

      Don’t get it wrong, these people weren’t so offended by the policy that they were prepared to travel to Canberra at their own expense to protest. They got a free trip and probably lunch, as long as they were prepared to chant the right chant.

    • John says:

      01:51pm | 16/08/11

      Funnily enough, none of the people at that rally are going to be alive to see the effects of Climate Change. You’d think they’d care a bit more about the quality of life for their Grandchildren.

    • Lyn says:

      09:51pm | 17/08/11

      Nore will you as Tim Flannery pointed out it will take a 1000 years if everryone on the planet stops useing CO2. Bye the way that is only if it is a reat problem and at least half the croud were 30 -50 not older. Not all young people have been brainwashed with fake science yet.

    • TomZ says:

      04:26pm | 16/08/11

      Thought stopping cliches have been tried before John. “Will somebody please think of the children.” They are a cheap device used by people who know they are bereft of arguments.

      Nice post Anubis. The carbon tax thing is a scam perpetrated by power hungry grubs.

    • Andrew says:

      04:24pm | 16/08/11

      They should be protesting against the Direct action plan.
      I cant believe Tony Abbott has been conned as well.

    • Chris L says:

      03:21pm | 16/08/11

      It’s fair enough Barry. Conservatives complaining about the defecit usually include something about grandchildren paying it.

    • Anubis says:

      02:57pm | 16/08/11

      @ John - you are being simplistic. Using the IPCC’s own figures, if Australia manages to reduce emissions by the planned 160,000 tonnes then the net impact on global temperatures will be one-4000th of a degree. Whether you believe in global warming or not that is a ludicrously small amount for the billions of dollars and the productivity losses that Australia will incur.

      As for your catch cry “Won’t somebody think of the children/grandchildren” What utter emotional claptrap.The earth has been significantly warmer than it is now. During the Medieval Warm period they were growing grapes in Scotland and wheat in Greenland. This period was followed by the mini-ice age which ended in the early 1800’s. We are still warming following that event and have a few more degrees to go before we get on par with the MWP.

      The IPCC and it’s huge coterie of scientists and assorted suck-hole politicians have yet to produce a single piece of evidence that proves Anthropogenic Global Warming (not a single conclusive marker). Real life observations are showing that there are errors in the Computer models as the real life climate events are not going anywhere near the Modelling predictions. No significant warming over the past ten years even though C02 levels have increased, the rate of sea level rises is flattening out, Arctic melt is being counterbalanced by Antarctic freezing, no hot spot in the troposphere has developed (a key feature of the computer modelling). In true scientific research this would require a re-assessment of the scientific protocols being used in order to understand why the models are wrong. In Climate Change science, the way it is now, where thousands of careers are at stake and billions of dollars at risk, there is no re-alignment of the procedures or models being undertaken. The Global Warming/Climate Change megalith has picked up so much momentum that if the brakes were to be applied in order to rationally address the divergences, then so many careers (scientific/political and Economists) would be in tatters that it would take centuries for science to regain credibility on big issue agenda.

      So you can take your plea to “think of the grandchildren” and file it away with the rest of the fantasies generated by this 21st Century Ponzi Scheme. The science needs to be reassessed but there are now too many snouts in the trough for this to credibly occur.

    • Martin says:

      02:54pm | 16/08/11

      Oh, and right on key comes the high moral ground platitude. Well done, John. Laugably this carbon tax will have no effect on the environment, John, it will just make Labor drones “feel good”, in the mean time it’s just all actually about appeasing Bob Brown and desperately hanging on to power.  How ridiculous.

    • Barry says:

      02:38pm | 16/08/11

      I probably will be effected by the more drastic end results, if I live to the age of 80 and up.  Regardless, the mitigation of the threat to Australia’s grandchildren from climate change is not in Australia’s hands, and we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking so.  International pressure for change from the larger countries will be the only thing which can minimize the impact of climate change on Australia.  You’re argument that people who oppose the carbon tax don’t care about the quality of life of their grandchildren is ridiculous, because it’s based upon the false assertion that the carbon tax will effect climate change.  You’re also attempting to take a strawman approach by portraying those who oppose the carbon tax as having the argument of “keeping the pollution flowing” .  I don’t think I’ve ever talked to anyone yet who opposed the carbon tax, but wasn’t aware of the need to curb pollution.  I’m sure these people may exist, but I’m yet to meet one.  This is though just another attempt to distort the situation, similar to people spreading the false information that Australia’s carbon tax will somehow secure the future of Australia’s grandchildren from the threat of climate change.

    • John says:

      02:10pm | 16/08/11

      Ah the old “We’re such a little country, our actions won’t make a difference - I’d rather save the $5 and keeping the pollution flowing argument”

      Again, only ever put forward by those who won’t be affected by the end result.

    • Barry says:

      02:03pm | 16/08/11

      Funnily enough people keep attempting to use grandchildren as some sort of guilt trip justification for the carbon tax, despite the fact anyone with a basic knowledge of climate change understands that Australia’s actions won’t do a thing.

    • Carla says:

      01:51pm | 16/08/11

      “They’re just smacking the government with their big stick.” THAT’S WHAT SHE SAID!

    • Rick says:

      01:45pm | 16/08/11

      Maybe they can get Mary Joe to do the hoky poky on the stage before she nips into the nearest IGA for a bit of five finger discount.

    • Mattb says:

      07:38pm | 16/08/11

      Haha, matt, by the looks of the crowd they’d need to get truckload of Viagra too…

    • Knemon says:

      04:44pm | 16/08/11

      Oh look….Matt & Ed are trying to be like Rick grin

    • Ed says:

      02:47pm | 16/08/11

      Good ole’ Thommo and his hookers…

    • Matt says:

      02:31pm | 16/08/11

      Maybe they can get Craig Thomson to organise some “entertainment” using Union funds.

    • Knemon says:

      02:24pm | 16/08/11

      LOL…Funny one Rick grin

    • Tom Tom says:

      01:43pm | 16/08/11

      Sorry Daniel if our PM Julia Gillard was listening to the very people that she represents, Australians wouldn’t be smacking the government she leads with their big sticks. Don’t forget we have to contain ourselves while Gillard runs amok with our money.

      I felt a great deal of satisfaction and joy to watch the rock star reception that the opposition leader, Barnby Joyce, Sophie Mirabella etc received when they approached the dias to voice what we so want to hear. We will wait in rage for the coming elections to exercise our democratic rights. A rally like the one today every so often until the next elections will keep me sane so I say go for it!

    • B says:

      11:45pm | 17/08/11

      Wow.  I wonder who Scott supports??  Hit a nerve did he Scott???

      “there is an underlying momentum against the Libs, and it is the Mad Monk that is the reason for it”  -  This is pure speculation on your part.  Your the first to mention it and Im sure it will now be forgotten.

    • Scott B says:

      04:16pm | 17/08/11

      Your satisfied by the base lies and approaching-seditious diatribes by these parasitical politicians? Oh dear.

      You approve of the geriatric brigade demonstrably brainwashed by the Alan Jones and Chris Smiths of this world and their own baseless and inflammatory lies? Oh, dear.

      Tom Tom, bet you be crying into your latte in 2013 when Abbott self-destructs and the Libs are wiped out…there is an underlying momentum against the Libs, and it is the Mad Monk that is the reason for it. Just watch, it’s going to get fun!

    • Tim says:

      01:39pm | 16/08/11

      “But they’re not speaking softly. They’re just smacking the government with their big stick.” What are you suggesting they do? Just bend over and cop it sweet?

    • B says:

      11:03pm | 17/08/11

      I think you will find the hard line conservatives still live in the new young generation.

      I personally know 80 or so people who would disagree with you Chris and Michael.

    • Ron V. says:

      10:02pm | 17/08/11

      Tell you what Daniel, I’ll bet you haven’t read most of the comments made. Probably been too busy sipping lattes with your left wing labor mates. You should have had the guts to print some of the better and more numerous banners people were holding. And where were you when the union thugs broke into Parliament House, or when union members beat up their mates at union meetings who didn’t agree with them, when Gillard stabbed Rudd in the back, and so on. If you can’t do better than this article, go and get a real job. I’m sure some councils are looking for street sweepers.

    • Sodapoppy says:

      03:45pm | 17/08/11

      “speak softly and carry a big stick”. Oh Dan, when you were a child the Union thugs, you know, Combet’s mob, spoke bloody loudly AND carried a bloody big stick. Or anything that would smash windows, doors or any other property of those who had upset them. But you were a child then, so I guess that is of no importance.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      08:50am | 17/08/11

      Careful kiddies. A good percentage of those hard core conservatives were once hard core Labor voters. The younger coservative ones were at work paying taxes and wondering how we are going to afford to live when the carbon tax pushes prices through the roof.

    • Chris says:

      07:08pm | 16/08/11

      Nafe… it was way funny.

      Can’t wait for all the hardcore conservatives to die out, only a matter of time.

    • Nafe says:

      03:33pm | 16/08/11

      Michael, Your coment wasn’t funny the first time, not sure why you felt the need to post it twice

    • Michael says:

      02:44pm | 16/08/11

      And after 2-years most of those protesters would have passed-away from old age.

    • Michael says:

      02:43pm | 16/08/11

      And after 2-years most of those protesters would have passed-away from old age.

    • Tim says:

      02:12pm | 16/08/11

      It will obviously dissipate, because 2 years is a long time to maintain the rage. But just because it dissipates isn’t and indication of acceptance.

    • Daniel Piotrowski

      Daniel Piotrowski says:

      02:01pm | 16/08/11

      Thanks for the comment Tim. Was more of a comment on their a) showboat methods and b) I’m wondering whether this movement’s going to last or just dissipate.

    • fairsfair says:

      01:36pm | 16/08/11

      I actually enjoyed reading this, but I don’t really understand the intention Dan? You say it is OK for people to protest, but then you criticise them for doing so.

      What about the recent marches in support of gay marriage rights? They are marching and chanting and select politicians are throwing their support behind it. I don’t think there is any difference.

      That coffin has Australian democracy written on the side of it and it is filled with the carbon tax information mailout - an effective tool probably. Its no more inflammatory than a man wearing a bride’s veil. 

      I am trying to look at this in a moderate sense, but why is it OK for people to march for things on one hand, but not against things on the other?

      It takes a lot to force people on the right to march (they much prefer to discuss matters and wait for elections), so the existence of these gatherings kind of tell me that the rage goes so much deeper than the few people who are actually gathering.

    • fairsfair says:

      11:28am | 17/08/11

      Dan, I don’t at all agree with the personal comments made toward you on this, but I will maintain that it seems a bit odd.

      Whats good for the goose and all that. Toady provides some cracking examples. “Showboating” tactics are the backbone of any protest - attention is the name of the game and I can’t for the life of me work out why anyone would pick on that aspect of yesterday. All the protestors want is their arguments heard and to stimulate debabate on this. It hasn’t worked however, as both this article and Ant’s prove that we will forever seem to be on the merry-go-round of ignorance (from both sides). I am tired of people talking AT each other - and sadly, that is all your article has perpetuated.

    • Toady says:

      08:10pm | 16/08/11

      Well Daniel, why not start having a go at the anti-Israel activists who barricade ligitimate businesses, the idiot greenies who chain themselves to ladders at parliament house, the eco-fascists who vandalise private property, the balaclava-clad morons who wreak havoc at G8 and WEF events.  You know the ones - they’re your halfwit chums from uni, the perpetual degree student, and the unemployed bums who hate successful people.  You are too young and stupid to understand the real world yet, Daniel.  You could try being grown-up by showing balance and attack both sides, instead of pretending to be balanced by writing this one-sided drivel.  These people have a legitimate gripe and are entitled to protest against a Prime Minister who lied before the election, and who is forcing an unpopular and pointless tax on EVERYONE because of the wishes of a minority party called The Greens.

    • Clark says:

      05:22pm | 16/08/11

      Daniel is desperately trying to be “alternative” - which means following a very defined script. Let the baby have its bottle.

    • Horthy says:

      04:14pm | 16/08/11

      “I’m not so much criticising the people participating in the rallies as their showboat methods, fairs.”

      Oh my, that’s rich.

    • Ed says:

      02:44pm | 16/08/11

      It certainly was a confused article that lacked direction… I’m surprised it made it onto the site…

      Definitely “B” material.

    • Hugo says:

      02:44pm | 16/08/11

      Criticism of the protests is legitimate. As anyone who works in communications knows “The medium is the message”. The means of communication influence and frame the message.

      Thoughtful protestor – thoughtful message.

      Angry protester – angry message.

      To quote Martin Lurther King Jr – “The question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be….. The nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists”

      How much better had there been creativity rather than rage at this protest?

      This is even more so when, instead of protesting about the rights of someone else you protest for yourself. If you’re screaming “My rights. My way. My election. My preferred government. When I want it not when the election is held” – well you risk coming across like…..like the protestors have come across. The interests against the carbon price are in desperate need of voices with the right tone.

    • Daniel Piotrowski

      Daniel Piotrowski says:

      01:59pm | 16/08/11

      I’m not so much criticising the people participating in the rallies as their showboat methods, fairs. Cheers for the comment.

    • Lapun says:

      01:57pm | 16/08/11

      Totally agree “fairsfair”.  Everything you say IS fair.  I’m kind of sad about this because generally I like Daniel’s work but this one is a bit astray.  I was surprised to see his references to Corey Bernadi, the prominent conservative blog, etc,  Why wouldn’t Corey be involved in the organisation given it is the position of his Party.  I just couldn’t understand Dan’s point!

    • Matt says:

      01:35pm | 16/08/11

      Far be it for Australian citizens to stage a peaceful protest rally!

    • Hank says:

      03:10pm | 17/08/11

      Oh hahahaha.  You are so witty Acrotel.  Fulfilling your dream of amateur comdedian in your retirement are you?  I guess you adhere to the philosophy of quantity no quality when it comes to your comments matey.  Replying to everybodys post does’nt;
      a/ mean you’re intelligent or informed
      b/ convince people to your line of reasoning
      Instead of childish insults and blatantly biased views, offer something of substance that’s a tad more subtle to bring people around.
      Give up mate and get back to you bowls and gardening.

    • acotrel says:

      04:21pm | 16/08/11

      @Matt
      At least we don’t behave like a mob of rioting Pommies! That’ll probably come a short while after the next elections, if Abbott gets up!

    • Tim says:

      01:33pm | 16/08/11

      The Bogans.
      They are Legion and they are Mad as Hell.

    • Tony says:

      11:00am | 17/08/11

      Message to anti-carbon tax protestors… When protestors are bickering amongst themselves over whether or not they can display “Ditch The Bitch” signs or not, I say yeah theres a huge bogan element amongst them and it makes it bloody hard for anyone with any decent things to say to be taken seriously. Rule 1… Dont follow Alan Jones and Angry Anderson.. Not a good look… And rule 2 show some class and intelligence. The media will only look for the lunatics amongst you…

    • Ken Carr says:

      10:51am | 17/08/11

      How typical to report the latest news with an inflammatory picture of the past, just trying to remind people I assume.
      Reasoned arguement clearly didnt work, not for the government who couldnt get a majority concensus, and who said they wouldnt intoduce a tax until they did, nor for the Australians who demonstrated yesterday beacuse with almost 70% opposed to the tax, its being implemented anyway. We saw it happen in NSW with the Electricity sell off, no debate, no censensus, no choice, and with huge penalties to repeal it. Have we not learnt anything, most Australians are reasonable people, but when you impose an unreasonable proposition they fight back. Get a consensus, one view or another then the reasonable people will support it.
      I was there, I run a company of 300+ employees, I’m on two public company boards, and you think Im a Bogan, Well if business people feel strongly enough to demonstarte outside parliament, then it must be a significant issue. I create jobs and wealth, I pay taxes state and federal, and generally keep the economy moving. You on the other hand are a reporter, so report the news and dont try to create it. If you could create things you’d be in business.

    • leroy says:

      09:47am | 17/08/11

      @JohnB

      The Garaut update of May 2011 with Annex B (“How your dosh is going to be spent): http://www.garnautreview.org.au/update-2011/garnaut-review-2011/summary-20June.pdf

      Not sure if this is out of date, and would love a link to the stuff before the parliament that you mention, since that’s what we’re actually going to be getting smile

      Check out page 19 of the link above for a table of percentages of expenditure. Not sure where the 10% going to developing countries could be hiding. Page 25 says that the int’l commitments will mostly be funded through the foreign aid budget, with expectation that that’s going to be reduced by using the 10% innovation from the table - “To facilitate private investment, some
      of the increased innovation expenditure allocated to Australian firms could be spent by them in
      developing countries.” Maybe that’s where the 10% links up? The WA article you mention (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/latest/8916664/carbon-tax-billions-to-help-poor-nations/ ) ? predates the announcements and the review, so doesn’t have the details. I’m not seeing how int’l obligations that we’re bound by regardless of the cprs/tax make said schemes socialist, but I may be missing something. I’m always wary of economist-speak in these reports.

      In response to your request for a logical reason for the tax - here is one. The 10% allocated to research & development of new technologies. Australia has a proud record of not benefiting from scientific discoveries made here, because there is simply no funding for commercialisation of the discoveries. Thanks to the tax (the 10%, but also because r&d will become a profitable enterprise rather than a cost centre just through the price adjustment - that is the genius of it), this will change. It will mean that Aussie innovators no longer need to sell their soul (and discoveries) to overseas vc’s, and will contribute to the economy. We need to be thinking about what will happen when the mining boom ends, and the hi-tech renewables are part of the solution. With this tax, we’re using our current but temporary competitive advantage (cheap coal) to bootstrap what will hopefully be a future one (innovation). That’s visionary.

    • acotrel says:

      05:56am | 17/08/11

      @JohnB
      ‘It’s socialist in EVERY WAY leroy, it may be a market based system but it throws billions of our dollars to the worst PC, socialist clowns on the planet in the UN. ‘

      I agree with you.  The free market economy is manipulated by the World Trade Organisation to give the poor in third world countries a leg up.  There’s an old saying ‘charity begins at home’ !  Why should we have a conscience about living in a wasteful and destructive way while thousands die of hunger ?  God obviously chose US to have a good time, and produce more of our excellent type of person!

    • JohnB says:

      08:00pm | 16/08/11

      It’s well established in the news Leroy and I believe it’s in the documents in parliament at 10%...

      “In February 2011 Paul Murray from the West Australian reported that:
      Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s new tax will be used to allow Australia to meet its share of a $100 billion-a-year United Nations fund to transfer wealth from rich countries to help undeveloped nations adapt to global warming. The Gillard Government is party to a UN agreement which Climate Change Minister Greg Combet entered into in December at a meeting in Cancun, Mexico, under which about 10 per cent of carbon taxes in developed nations will go into a Green Climate Fund.”


      Yes, as unbelievable as it is leroy. The federal Labor government is looking for even more ways to waste our money.

      Now perhaps you could answer one of my queries. What logical reason, and I mean, please give me LOGICAL reasons Australia would want a carbon tax.

    • Leroy says:

      06:12pm | 16/08/11

      JohnB,

      I’m not going to engage on majority of your points since I don’t think we’ll sway each other, but would you mind elaborating on the UN angle?

    • JohnB says:

      05:30pm | 16/08/11

      @leroy…

      It’s socialist in EVERY WAY leroy, it may be a market based system but it throws billions of our dollars to the worst PC, socialist clowns on the planet in the UN.

      Reallocates money from middle income earners (workers) to low income earners welfare recipients).....That’s socialist as far as I’m concerned.

      Surely you’re not suggesting putting a pittance of a tax on fossil fuels will stop their use? In contrast, the coalition will replant, something that is actually a step in the right direction (all be it very little) and not simply ideology. The carbon tax doesn’t hold up leroy. Not scientifically, not economically, but above all not logically. The sooner Labor drop it, the more chance there’ll be some of them left after the next election.

    • Tim says:

      05:19pm | 16/08/11

      Hergo007,
      no I was there, just as an onlooker and i’ll stick with my opinion.

      Your post pretty much sums up what i’m talking about.
      The analogy is so far off the mark it’s not funny. You are talking about our government, not a tenant in your investment home.
      Sure our government may be horribly bad but you’ll have to wait until the next election before you can vote against them. You can’t “take a baseball bat to them”, that’s not how our democracy works.

    • JohnB says:

      05:08pm | 16/08/11

      So well said TomZ…

      You’d have to question the intellect (and of course the motive) of any supporter of this tax.

      I should have considered this statement before I got upset….“Always process someone’s opinion through the self-interest filter before you consider it seriously.”

    • leroy says:

      05:00pm | 16/08/11

      JohnB,

      Please don’t call supporters of a market-based system socialists, while presumably agreeing with the “let’s throw billions of taxpayers’ money at things that look good to bureaucrats” policy. That’s just silly.

    • Hergo007 says:

      04:59pm | 16/08/11

      Have to say Tim you were obviously not there. I was, wearing the suit and tie which is my uniform as an IT Consultant. There weren’t too many bogans. There were a lot of tradies, there were a lot of families with their kids, there were a lot of middle Australians who are just sick to death of the lies and deceipt being forced on them by this Government.
      Think about it.
      You have an investment property.
      If you became fed up the previous tennant that you invite someone new into your house. Suddenly, they turned around and drain your bank account, remortgage your house and then set up an automatic redirection of part of your income into their coffers based on how much of your house you actually wish to use. Would you not kick them out on their a*** as quick as you can?
      Would you rage at them to get the hell out?
      As Dan suggests you might even try to beat the crap out of them with a baseball bat.

    • Tim says:

      04:45pm | 16/08/11

      Fairsfair,
      I have a severe dislike of extremists of all persuasions.
      Perhaps they don’t have to be presenting policies but at least having a cogent argument that has a defined point would be a start.
      I hate Juliar and we should have a new election does not count.

      As Sharwood’s article says, the mixed messages coming out of the crowd would be funny if they weren’t serious.

      They ruin the more reasonable arguments against the carbon tax because they make opponents to it look like ignorant idiots.

    • acotrel says:

      04:24pm | 16/08/11

      ’ signs in the crowd said “Juliar” was “Bob Brown’s bitch”. ‘

      Could have been worse after last weekend.  The signs could have said ‘Tony is Bob Brown’s bitch’ ? Close shave fellas!

    • acotrel says:

      03:47pm | 16/08/11

      Saw Abbott on TV today.  He didn’t say anything different to his usual stuff.  He even looked tired as he spouted his garbage. It’s a long two years to the election, I wonder if he’ll try to get there without changing his rhetoric?  He’s almost chopped his leg off with his predictable bull, the punters must be getting really tired of him? When he started a s leader of the opposition, his negative sensationalism was a bit of a novelty, but now…......??

    • JohnB says:

      03:35pm | 16/08/11

      Is that supposed to get the people on the fence to think “hang on I’m not a bogan- I therefore support this tax”?

      You’ve got to be kidding.

      It’s perhaps the ridiculous trendy elite socialists that need to realise there are not enough of you wankers to get this rubbish through. You may also realise MOST of us (not you) know a rort when we see one.

    • acotrel says:

      03:32pm | 16/08/11

      I wonder if Tony Abbott believes the Australian voters don’t notice his role in this extremist shit stirring ?

    • LC says:

      03:07pm | 16/08/11

      Doesn’t matter Chris, they are still generalizations.

      Hence my point.

    • Bruce says:

      02:51pm | 16/08/11

      Tim: It takes a lot for the ‘bogans’ of Australia to complain. The very people labor has abandoned. As for ‘get up’, let us not mention the name of the two headed beast who often pretend to be one thing but are very clearly another.

    • Chris L says:

      02:36pm | 16/08/11

      LC, those generalisations you mention have been thrown by conservatives at everyone who disagrees with them for years now.

    • Cam says:

      02:34pm | 16/08/11

      Bogans vote and bogans have a right to protest.

    • fairsfair says:

      02:30pm | 16/08/11

      That might be true to a degree Tim, but since when is it the job of a marching group of protestors to present alternative policy? They are standing up for something they are against.

      And feral hippy is just as bad as bogan. I didn’t agree with “Manfred” (the epitome of feral hippy) who camped in a tree when they were building SkyRail, but at least he had the balls to get up in that tree and sit there for months. The fact the rediverted the rail route around him and then cut down his tree (after he was conned into allowing undercover police up there to interview him as “SBS journalists”) on principle, makes no difference.

    • Tim says:

      02:16pm | 16/08/11

      Fairsfair,
      it’s completely fair.
      I’m actually on their side but they do the cause a disservice with their actions.
      They aren’t arguing points or presenting policy, they are angry, they are mad and they ain’t gonna stand for having a government that doesn’t do exactly what they want.
      They are the right wing version of feral hippies.

    • LC says:

      02:13pm | 16/08/11

      If they’re bogans does that make you a latte sipping inner-city
      quasi-socialist Greens voter?

      Generalizations are fun aren’t they? wink

    • fairsfair says:

      01:45pm | 16/08/11

      Thats not very fair Tim. They are people with an opinion. Disagree with it all you might, you can’t label them bogans because they are standing up for something they believe in. If they were marching against the Malaysian Solution people would probably be calling them “humanitarians”.

    • adam says:

      01:43pm | 16/08/11

      I think we are all someone’s bogan Tim. There will always be a part of any individuals makeup that another can sneer at.

      I embrace my Boganism as the uniform is quite comfy

 

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