Carbon Rally 2: Attack of the Clones

adam says:

02:43pm | 16/08/11

I think we are all someone’s bogan Tim. There will always be a part of any individuals makeup that another can sneer at.

I embrace my Boganism as the uniform is quite comfy

fairsfair says:

02:45pm | 16/08/11

Thats not very fair Tim. They are people with an opinion. Disagree with it all you might, you can’t label them bogans because they are standing up for something they believe in. If they were marching against the Malaysian Solution people would probably be calling them “humanitarians”.

LC says:

03:13pm | 16/08/11

If they’re bogans does that make you a latte sipping inner-city
quasi-socialist Greens voter?

Generalizations are fun aren’t they?

Tim says:

03:16pm | 16/08/11

Fairsfair,
it’s completely fair.
I’m actually on their side but they do the cause a disservice with their actions.
They aren’t arguing points or presenting policy, they are angry, they are mad and they ain’t gonna stand for having a government that doesn’t do exactly what they want.
They are the right wing version of feral hippies.

fairsfair says:

03:30pm | 16/08/11

That might be true to a degree Tim, but since when is it the job of a marching group of protestors to present alternative policy? They are standing up for something they are against.

And feral hippy is just as bad as bogan. I didn’t agree with “Manfred” (the epitome of feral hippy) who camped in a tree when they were building SkyRail, but at least he had the balls to get up in that tree and sit there for months. The fact the rediverted the rail route around him and then cut down his tree (after he was conned into allowing undercover police up there to interview him as “SBS journalists”) on principle, makes no difference.

Cam says:

03:34pm | 16/08/11

Bogans vote and bogans have a right to protest.

Chris L says:

03:36pm | 16/08/11

LC, those generalisations you mention have been thrown by conservatives at everyone who disagrees with them for years now.

Bruce says:

03:51pm | 16/08/11

Tim: It takes a lot for the ‘bogans’ of Australia to complain. The very people labor has abandoned. As for ‘get up’, let us not mention the name of the two headed beast who often pretend to be one thing but are very clearly another.

LC says:

04:07pm | 16/08/11

Doesn’t matter Chris, they are still generalizations.

Hence my point.

acotrel says:

04:32pm | 16/08/11

I wonder if Tony Abbott believes the Australian voters don’t notice his role in this extremist shit stirring ?

JohnB says:

04:35pm | 16/08/11

Is that supposed to get the people on the fence to think “hang on I’m not a bogan- I therefore support this tax”?

You’ve got to be kidding.

It’s perhaps the ridiculous trendy elite socialists that need to realise there are not enough of you wankers to get this rubbish through. You may also realise MOST of us (not you) know a rort when we see one.

acotrel says:

04:47pm | 16/08/11

Saw Abbott on TV today.  He didn’t say anything different to his usual stuff.  He even looked tired as he spouted his garbage. It’s a long two years to the election, I wonder if he’ll try to get there without changing his rhetoric?  He’s almost chopped his leg off with his predictable bull, the punters must be getting really tired of him? When he started a s leader of the opposition, his negative sensationalism was a bit of a novelty, but now…......??

acotrel says:

05:24pm | 16/08/11

’ signs in the crowd said “Juliar” was “Bob Brown’s bitch”. ‘

Could have been worse after last weekend.  The signs could have said ‘Tony is Bob Brown’s bitch’ ? Close shave fellas!

Tim says:

05:45pm | 16/08/11

Fairsfair,
I have a severe dislike of extremists of all persuasions.
Perhaps they don’t have to be presenting policies but at least having a cogent argument that has a defined point would be a start.
I hate Juliar and we should have a new election does not count.

As Sharwood’s article says, the mixed messages coming out of the crowd would be funny if they weren’t serious.

They ruin the more reasonable arguments against the carbon tax because they make opponents to it look like ignorant idiots.

TomZ says:

05:58pm | 16/08/11

Oh Tim, “The problem is that many of the most vocal proponents of left-wing positions are at best stupid and at worst obnoxious.” ...
The real Bogans.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Both-political-extremes-should-be-left-right-out/

Hergo007 says:

05:59pm | 16/08/11

Have to say Tim you were obviously not there. I was, wearing the suit and tie which is my uniform as an IT Consultant. There weren’t too many bogans. There were a lot of tradies, there were a lot of families with their kids, there were a lot of middle Australians who are just sick to death of the lies and deceipt being forced on them by this Government.
Think about it.
You have an investment property.
If you became fed up the previous tennant that you invite someone new into your house. Suddenly, they turned around and drain your bank account, remortgage your house and then set up an automatic redirection of part of your income into their coffers based on how much of your house you actually wish to use. Would you not kick them out on their a*** as quick as you can?
Would you rage at them to get the hell out?
As Dan suggests you might even try to beat the crap out of them with a baseball bat.

leroy says:

06:00pm | 16/08/11

JohnB,

Please don’t call supporters of a market-based system socialists, while presumably agreeing with the “let’s throw billions of taxpayers’ money at things that look good to bureaucrats” policy. That’s just silly.

JohnB says:

06:08pm | 16/08/11

So well said TomZ…

You’d have to question the intellect (and of course the motive) of any supporter of this tax.

I should have considered this statement before I got upset….“Always process someone’s opinion through the self-interest filter before you consider it seriously.”

Tim says:

06:19pm | 16/08/11

Hergo007,
no I was there, just as an onlooker and i’ll stick with my opinion.

Your post pretty much sums up what i’m talking about.
The analogy is so far off the mark it’s not funny. You are talking about our government, not a tenant in your investment home.
Sure our government may be horribly bad but you’ll have to wait until the next election before you can vote against them. You can’t “take a baseball bat to them”, that’s not how our democracy works.

JohnB says:

06:30pm | 16/08/11

@leroy…

It’s socialist in EVERY WAY leroy, it may be a market based system but it throws billions of our dollars to the worst PC, socialist clowns on the planet in the UN.

Reallocates money from middle income earners (workers) to low income earners welfare recipients).....That’s socialist as far as I’m concerned.

Surely you’re not suggesting putting a pittance of a tax on fossil fuels will stop their use? In contrast, the coalition will replant, something that is actually a step in the right direction (all be it very little) and not simply ideology. The carbon tax doesn’t hold up leroy. Not scientifically, not economically, but above all not logically. The sooner Labor drop it, the more chance there’ll be some of them left after the next election.

Leroy says:

07:12pm | 16/08/11

JohnB,

I’m not going to engage on majority of your points since I don’t think we’ll sway each other, but would you mind elaborating on the UN angle?

JohnB says:

09:00pm | 16/08/11

It’s well established in the news Leroy and I believe it’s in the documents in parliament at 10%...

“In February 2011 Paul Murray from the West Australian reported that:
Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s new tax will be used to allow Australia to meet its share of a $100 billion-a-year United Nations fund to transfer wealth from rich countries to help undeveloped nations adapt to global warming. The Gillard Government is party to a UN agreement which Climate Change Minister Greg Combet entered into in December at a meeting in Cancun, Mexico, under which about 10 per cent of carbon taxes in developed nations will go into a Green Climate Fund.”

Yes, as unbelievable as it is leroy. The federal Labor government is looking for even more ways to waste our money.

Now perhaps you could answer one of my queries. What logical reason, and I mean, please give me LOGICAL reasons Australia would want a carbon tax.

acotrel says:

06:56am | 17/08/11

@JohnB
‘It’s socialist in EVERY WAY leroy, it may be a market based system but it throws billions of our dollars to the worst PC, socialist clowns on the planet in the UN. ‘

I agree with you.  The free market economy is manipulated by the World Trade Organisation to give the poor in third world countries a leg up.  There’s an old saying ‘charity begins at home’ !  Why should we have a conscience about living in a wasteful and destructive way while thousands die of hunger ?  God obviously chose US to have a good time, and produce more of our excellent type of person!

leroy says:

10:47am | 17/08/11

@JohnB

The Garaut update of May 2011 with Annex B (“How your dosh is going to be spent): http://www.garnautreview.org.au/update-2011/garnaut-review-2011/summary-20June.pdf

Not sure if this is out of date, and would love a link to the stuff before the parliament that you mention, since that’s what we’re actually going to be getting

Check out page 19 of the link above for a table of percentages of expenditure. Not sure where the 10% going to developing countries could be hiding. Page 25 says that the int’l commitments will mostly be funded through the foreign aid budget, with expectation that that’s going to be reduced by using the 10% innovation from the table - “To facilitate private investment, some
of the increased innovation expenditure allocated to Australian firms could be spent by them in
developing countries.” Maybe that’s where the 10% links up? The WA article you mention (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/latest/8916664/carbon-tax-billions-to-help-poor-nations/ ) ? predates the announcements and the review, so doesn’t have the details. I’m not seeing how int’l obligations that we’re bound by regardless of the cprs/tax make said schemes socialist, but I may be missing something. I’m always wary of economist-speak in these reports.

In response to your request for a logical reason for the tax - here is one. The 10% allocated to research & development of new technologies. Australia has a proud record of not benefiting from scientific discoveries made here, because there is simply no funding for commercialisation of the discoveries. Thanks to the tax (the 10%, but also because r&d will become a profitable enterprise rather than a cost centre just through the price adjustment - that is the genius of it), this will change. It will mean that Aussie innovators no longer need to sell their soul (and discoveries) to overseas vc’s, and will contribute to the economy. We need to be thinking about what will happen when the mining boom ends, and the hi-tech renewables are part of the solution. With this tax, we’re using our current but temporary competitive advantage (cheap coal) to bootstrap what will hopefully be a future one (innovation). That’s visionary.

Ken Carr says:

11:51am | 17/08/11

How typical to report the latest news with an inflammatory picture of the past, just trying to remind people I assume.
Reasoned arguement clearly didnt work, not for the government who couldnt get a majority concensus, and who said they wouldnt intoduce a tax until they did, nor for the Australians who demonstrated yesterday beacuse with almost 70% opposed to the tax, its being implemented anyway. We saw it happen in NSW with the Electricity sell off, no debate, no censensus, no choice, and with huge penalties to repeal it. Have we not learnt anything, most Australians are reasonable people, but when you impose an unreasonable proposition they fight back. Get a consensus, one view or another then the reasonable people will support it.
I was there, I run a company of 300+ employees, I’m on two public company boards, and you think Im a Bogan, Well if business people feel strongly enough to demonstarte outside parliament, then it must be a significant issue. I create jobs and wealth, I pay taxes state and federal, and generally keep the economy moving. You on the other hand are a reporter, so report the news and dont try to create it. If you could create things you’d be in business.

Tony says:

12:00pm | 17/08/11

Message to anti-carbon tax protestors… When protestors are bickering amongst themselves over whether or not they can display “Ditch The Bitch” signs or not, I say yeah theres a huge bogan element amongst them and it makes it bloody hard for anyone with any decent things to say to be taken seriously. Rule 1… Dont follow Alan Jones and Angry Anderson.. Not a good look… And rule 2 show some class and intelligence. The media will only look for the lunatics amongst you…

acotrel says:

05:21pm | 16/08/11

@Matt
At least we don’t behave like a mob of rioting Pommies! That’ll probably come a short while after the next elections, if Abbott gets up!

Hank says:

04:10pm | 17/08/11

Oh hahahaha.  You are so witty Acrotel.  Fulfilling your dream of amateur comdedian in your retirement are you?  I guess you adhere to the philosophy of quantity no quality when it comes to your comments matey.  Replying to everybodys post does’nt;
a/ mean you’re intelligent or informed
b/ convince people to your line of reasoning
Instead of childish insults and blatantly biased views, offer something of substance that’s a tad more subtle to bring people around.
Give up mate and get back to you bowls and gardening.

Lapun says:

02:57pm | 16/08/11

Totally agree “fairsfair”.  Everything you say IS fair.  I’m kind of sad about this because generally I like Daniel’s work but this one is a bit astray.  I was surprised to see his references to Corey Bernadi, the prominent conservative blog, etc,  Why wouldn’t Corey be involved in the organisation given it is the position of his Party.  I just couldn’t understand Dan’s point!

Hugo says:

03:44pm | 16/08/11

Criticism of the protests is legitimate. As anyone who works in communications knows “The medium is the message”. The means of communication influence and frame the message.

Thoughtful protestor – thoughtful message.

Angry protester – angry message.

To quote Martin Lurther King Jr – “The question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be….. The nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists”

How much better had there been creativity rather than rage at this protest?

This is even more so when, instead of protesting about the rights of someone else you protest for yourself. If you’re screaming “My rights. My way. My election. My preferred government. When I want it not when the election is held” – well you risk coming across like…..like the protestors have come across. The interests against the carbon price are in desperate need of voices with the right tone.

Ed says:

03:44pm | 16/08/11

It certainly was a confused article that lacked direction… I’m surprised it made it onto the site…

Definitely “B” material.

Horthy says:

05:14pm | 16/08/11

“I’m not so much criticising the people participating in the rallies as their showboat methods, fairs.”

Oh my, that’s rich.

Clark says:

06:22pm | 16/08/11

Daniel is desperately trying to be “alternative” - which means following a very defined script. Let the baby have its bottle.

Toady says:

09:10pm | 16/08/11

Well Daniel, why not start having a go at the anti-Israel activists who barricade ligitimate businesses, the idiot greenies who chain themselves to ladders at parliament house, the eco-fascists who vandalise private property, the balaclava-clad morons who wreak havoc at G8 and WEF events.  You know the ones - they’re your halfwit chums from uni, the perpetual degree student, and the unemployed bums who hate successful people.  You are too young and stupid to understand the real world yet, Daniel.  You could try being grown-up by showing balance and attack both sides, instead of pretending to be balanced by writing this one-sided drivel.  These people have a legitimate gripe and are entitled to protest against a Prime Minister who lied before the election, and who is forcing an unpopular and pointless tax on EVERYONE because of the wishes of a minority party called The Greens.

fairsfair says:

12:28pm | 17/08/11

Dan, I don’t at all agree with the personal comments made toward you on this, but I will maintain that it seems a bit odd.

Whats good for the goose and all that. Toady provides some cracking examples. “Showboating” tactics are the backbone of any protest - attention is the name of the game and I can’t for the life of me work out why anyone would pick on that aspect of yesterday. All the protestors want is their arguments heard and to stimulate debabate on this. It hasn’t worked however, as both this article and Ant’s prove that we will forever seem to be on the merry-go-round of ignorance (from both sides). I am tired of people talking AT each other - and sadly, that is all your article has perpetuated.

Tim says:

03:12pm | 16/08/11

It will obviously dissipate, because 2 years is a long time to maintain the rage. But just because it dissipates isn’t and indication of acceptance.

Michael says:

03:43pm | 16/08/11

And after 2-years most of those protesters would have passed-away from old age.

Michael says:

03:44pm | 16/08/11

And after 2-years most of those protesters would have passed-away from old age.

Nafe says:

04:33pm | 16/08/11

Michael, Your coment wasn’t funny the first time, not sure why you felt the need to post it twice

Chris says:

08:08pm | 16/08/11

Nafe… it was way funny.

Can’t wait for all the hardcore conservatives to die out, only a matter of time.

Cry in my Gin says:

09:50am | 17/08/11

Careful kiddies. A good percentage of those hard core conservatives were once hard core Labor voters. The younger coservative ones were at work paying taxes and wondering how we are going to afford to live when the carbon tax pushes prices through the roof.

Sodapoppy says:

04:45pm | 17/08/11

“speak softly and carry a big stick”. Oh Dan, when you were a child the Union thugs, you know, Combet’s mob, spoke bloody loudly AND carried a bloody big stick. Or anything that would smash windows, doors or any other property of those who had upset them. But you were a child then, so I guess that is of no importance.

Ron V. says:

11:02pm | 17/08/11

Tell you what Daniel, I’ll bet you haven’t read most of the comments made. Probably been too busy sipping lattes with your left wing labor mates. You should have had the guts to print some of the better and more numerous banners people were holding. And where were you when the union thugs broke into Parliament House, or when union members beat up their mates at union meetings who didn’t agree with them, when Gillard stabbed Rudd in the back, and so on. If you can’t do better than this article, go and get a real job. I’m sure some councils are looking for street sweepers.

B says:

12:03am | 18/08/11

I think you will find the hard line conservatives still live in the new young generation.

I personally know 80 or so people who would disagree with you Chris and Michael.

Scott B says:

05:16pm | 17/08/11

Your satisfied by the base lies and approaching-seditious diatribes by these parasitical politicians? Oh dear.

You approve of the geriatric brigade demonstrably brainwashed by the Alan Jones and Chris Smiths of this world and their own baseless and inflammatory lies? Oh, dear.

Tom Tom, bet you be crying into your latte in 2013 when Abbott self-destructs and the Libs are wiped out…there is an underlying momentum against the Libs, and it is the Mad Monk that is the reason for it. Just watch, it’s going to get fun!

B says:

12:45am | 18/08/11

Wow.  I wonder who Scott supports??  Hit a nerve did he Scott???

“there is an underlying momentum against the Libs, and it is the Mad Monk that is the reason for it”  -  This is pure speculation on your part.  Your the first to mention it and Im sure it will now be forgotten.

Knemon says:

03:24pm | 16/08/11

LOL…Funny one Rick

Matt says:

03:31pm | 16/08/11

Maybe they can get Craig Thomson to organise some “entertainment” using Union funds.

Ed says:

03:47pm | 16/08/11

Good ole’ Thommo and his hookers…

Knemon says:

05:44pm | 16/08/11

Oh look….Matt & Ed are trying to be like Rick

Mattb says:

08:38pm | 16/08/11

Haha, matt, by the looks of the crowd they’d need to get truckload of Viagra too…

Barry says:

03:03pm | 16/08/11

Funnily enough people keep attempting to use grandchildren as some sort of guilt trip justification for the carbon tax, despite the fact anyone with a basic knowledge of climate change understands that Australia’s actions won’t do a thing.

John says:

03:10pm | 16/08/11

Ah the old “We’re such a little country, our actions won’t make a difference - I’d rather save the $5 and keeping the pollution flowing argument”

Again, only ever put forward by those who won’t be affected by the end result.

Barry says:

03:38pm | 16/08/11

I probably will be effected by the more drastic end results, if I live to the age of 80 and up.  Regardless, the mitigation of the threat to Australia’s grandchildren from climate change is not in Australia’s hands, and we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking so.  International pressure for change from the larger countries will be the only thing which can minimize the impact of climate change on Australia.  You’re argument that people who oppose the carbon tax don’t care about the quality of life of their grandchildren is ridiculous, because it’s based upon the false assertion that the carbon tax will effect climate change.  You’re also attempting to take a strawman approach by portraying those who oppose the carbon tax as having the argument of “keeping the pollution flowing” .  I don’t think I’ve ever talked to anyone yet who opposed the carbon tax, but wasn’t aware of the need to curb pollution.  I’m sure these people may exist, but I’m yet to meet one.  This is though just another attempt to distort the situation, similar to people spreading the false information that Australia’s carbon tax will somehow secure the future of Australia’s grandchildren from the threat of climate change.

Martin says:

03:54pm | 16/08/11

Oh, and right on key comes the high moral ground platitude. Well done, John. Laugably this carbon tax will have no effect on the environment, John, it will just make Labor drones “feel good”, in the mean time it’s just all actually about appeasing Bob Brown and desperately hanging on to power.  How ridiculous.

Anubis says:

03:57pm | 16/08/11

@ John - you are being simplistic. Using the IPCC’s own figures, if Australia manages to reduce emissions by the planned 160,000 tonnes then the net impact on global temperatures will be one-4000th of a degree. Whether you believe in global warming or not that is a ludicrously small amount for the billions of dollars and the productivity losses that Australia will incur.

As for your catch cry “Won’t somebody think of the children/grandchildren” What utter emotional claptrap.The earth has been significantly warmer than it is now. During the Medieval Warm period they were growing grapes in Scotland and wheat in Greenland. This period was followed by the mini-ice age which ended in the early 1800’s. We are still warming following that event and have a few more degrees to go before we get on par with the MWP.

The IPCC and it’s huge coterie of scientists and assorted suck-hole politicians have yet to produce a single piece of evidence that proves Anthropogenic Global Warming (not a single conclusive marker). Real life observations are showing that there are errors in the Computer models as the real life climate events are not going anywhere near the Modelling predictions. No significant warming over the past ten years even though C02 levels have increased, the rate of sea level rises is flattening out, Arctic melt is being counterbalanced by Antarctic freezing, no hot spot in the troposphere has developed (a key feature of the computer modelling). In true scientific research this would require a re-assessment of the scientific protocols being used in order to understand why the models are wrong. In Climate Change science, the way it is now, where thousands of careers are at stake and billions of dollars at risk, there is no re-alignment of the procedures or models being undertaken. The Global Warming/Climate Change megalith has picked up so much momentum that if the brakes were to be applied in order to rationally address the divergences, then so many careers (scientific/political and Economists) would be in tatters that it would take centuries for science to regain credibility on big issue agenda.

So you can take your plea to “think of the grandchildren” and file it away with the rest of the fantasies generated by this 21st Century Ponzi Scheme. The science needs to be reassessed but there are now too many snouts in the trough for this to credibly occur.

Chris L says:

04:21pm | 16/08/11

It’s fair enough Barry. Conservatives complaining about the defecit usually include something about grandchildren paying it.

Andrew says:

05:24pm | 16/08/11

They should be protesting against the Direct action plan.
I cant believe Tony Abbott has been conned as well.

TomZ says:

05:26pm | 16/08/11

Thought stopping cliches have been tried before John. “Will somebody please think of the children.” They are a cheap device used by people who know they are bereft of arguments.

Nice post Anubis. The carbon tax thing is a scam perpetrated by power hungry grubs.

Lyn says:

10:51pm | 17/08/11

Nore will you as Tim Flannery pointed out it will take a 1000 years if everryone on the planet stops useing CO2. Bye the way that is only if it is a reat problem and at least half the croud were 30 -50 not older. Not all young people have been brainwashed with fake science yet.

Rick says:

03:06pm | 16/08/11

No this is purely a crowd drummed up by Sydney radio shock jocks and shipped to Canberra specifically to make noise in line with the afore-mentioned shock jocks’ agenda. It wouldn’t suprise me if the signs and placards were provided on the trip down the Hume.

Don’t get it wrong, these people weren’t so offended by the policy that they were prepared to travel to Canberra at their own expense to protest. They got a free trip and probably lunch, as long as they were prepared to chant the right chant.

Kurisu Sonsaku says:

03:30pm | 16/08/11

@Rick ICB on your steaming pile of typing, ease up on the conspiracy theory it makes you look silly.

Anna C says:

03:35pm | 16/08/11

I agree with you Ian1. Why are people painting these protestors as a bunch of extremists by likening them to the US’s Tea Party Movement? The Tea Party is a GRASS ROOTS movement made up of ordinary citizens. While I may not agree with a lot of what they have to say they have as much right to be heard as anyone else.

I think Daniel and his crew are pissed off because these protestors are organising an attention grabbing truck convoy to descend on Canberra (amongst other things) rather than just some boring protest organised by professional protesters like GetUp.

Rev says:

03:45pm | 16/08/11

Agreed Rick - just like when union members decide to take a day off!  I mean, I’d rather be standing around chanting ‘MUA here to stay’ than actually working as well.

Rick says:

04:22pm | 16/08/11

Sorry Kurisu Sonsaku, but the only thing I posted that was theory was the supposition that the placards had been provided, and the quip that they received a free lunch. The rest is all known fact from the event.

Rev: exactly as useful as well

hellfire says:

06:12pm | 16/08/11

Rick,
Pull your head in you wanker, it started in the blogs actually, so that just shows your ignorance.
People paid for everything themselves you dropkick, prove otherwise since you are so clever. Many could not afford it but managed to go anyway.
That’s right you can’t !
Your mob is finished because you won’t listen, just like Gillard .

Mattb says:

08:32pm | 16/08/11

Gee hellfire, so much anger, how’s about instead of calling Rick a dickhead, wanker etc. you actually provide us all with the proof that ‘these people paid for everything themselves’. I wouldn’t have the slightest clue whether it’s you or Rick that is right from both your rants. So please enlighten us, don’t just write ‘that’s right you can’t!’, provide your evidence that these ‘people paid for everything themselves’ to attend the rally, as that would be these easiest way to show that Rick is the dickhead YOU claim he is. It makes your argument as weak as Rick’s…

Toady says:

09:17pm | 16/08/11

This is just the way the Left operates.  Rick has obviously been to his indoctrination classes - toe the party line or you lose the government benefits.  Nasty name calling, branding everyone as rednecks, racists, shockjocks… you name it. 
Easier to attack the man, rather than the ball.  It means they’ve got nothing in reply.  They are pathetic tax-wasting, socialist drones.

TomZ says:

11:13am | 17/08/11

@Mattb, “So please ... provide your evidence ...” ... Err no.

Rick is the one putting out all the theories. It is up to him to put up ,,, or get back in his box.

Lyn says:

11:08pm | 17/08/11

I did not get a free trip the bus cost each of us$50 for the seat I bought my own lunch and took the day off work it is left wing protesters who have every thing supplied and paid for. My sign was made by me, as most others made their own.  I do not appreciate you or anyone telling me I was led by 2GB or anyone else. I can think for myself and can see a bad GOV when I see one.

B says:

12:55am | 18/08/11

@Rick

What a load.  You may aswell say the Labor government pays people to be members of Get Up.  It just as stupid and ignorant.

Your ignorance is showing through like gaping hole.

James1 says:

03:43pm | 16/08/11

“This country is barely a shade of what once made it great.”

It is this type of hyperbole that does the conservative cause a diservice, though.  I work in Parliament House, and have been down to check out the rally.  While there is a fair bit of that type of hyperbole - “Democracy is dead”, “Fight the Communists”, “Don’t let Juliar Giltard kill Australia” were some of the signs I saw - there are also a large number of average, reasonable people simply expressing their opposition to this tax.  That portion - which is by far the majority of those attending - is discredited to a degree by the more dramatic protesters.  As such, some of the protesters are actually damaging their own cause through their behaviour.

Martin says:

04:01pm | 16/08/11

@James1, that’s your opinion. As you admit, most of the protesters are average people, so hence they are not professional activists that groom their actions to suit the TV cameras.  That’s what gives these protests clout, because they show the Labor party the degree of dissatisfaction that is out there in the suburbs. Time to stop writing spin jobs calling them weirdos and start noticing that many of these people are Labor voters that are walking away from the Labor party probably for the first time.

Babe in the Woods says:

03:38pm | 16/08/11

@Freeman, you voiced what I was wondering.  How many hysterical, chanting and screaming rallies/marches have we seen from unions, anti-war etc. and this is somehow OK.  Yes, there were idiots with placards.  News flash - - - there will always be idiots in any crowd.  Rather than sneer at the delivery, how about comment on the content.  I do not agree with what many of today’s marches / protests etc seek to portray (the slut walk comes to mind, eww!)  but it is a fundamental right.  Why do people seek the smug high ground, sneer at those with lesser vocabularies (like me) and somehow believe their point is proved?  Beware of the Bogans at the rally!  FFS, how many ‘Bogans’ are in a traditional union rally?  I have no idea, but then again, you commentators never seem to ask that.

Rocket Surgeon says:

10:18pm | 16/08/11

@ Freeman. You’re right, they are no different to the anti war etc nut jobs. Is that really the look you’re after?

Freeman says:

10:42am | 17/08/11

Rocket surgeon,

there was no trashing, no confrontation with police. they were nothing like the usual stupid kids we see disgracing themselves at rallies. But no, it’s not my cause and I’m not looking for any particlular look.

Lyn says:

10:57pm | 17/08/11

No it is the destruction of our country with everything this unelected Gov does that has people like me going to voice my opinion and that does not make me a bogan. Just middle Australia.

Sick of this says:

01:44pm | 18/08/11

Hear Hear Lyn!

stevenj says:

04:01pm | 16/08/11

Anna, you don’t know much about China as I do. You can apply and organize peaceful protest and march, its legal , China is quite open now, unless you do something too political and again China government.

Anna C says:

04:32pm | 16/08/11

“China is quite open now”. Yeah sure it is stevenj. Just don’t mention the Tiananmen Square massacre to them cause they can get a bit touchy if you do.

Tim says:

04:44pm | 16/08/11

“Shrinking violent”?

Ella says:

04:01pm | 16/08/11

I tend to think pollution is kind of like feral animals. They are just animals, perfectly natural, in the right place and context they are harmless, but if they are put in the wrong environment and are now overrunning the place so much they are stopping natural processes then they become feral animals. Pollution is not pollution because of the nature of the pollutant, pollution is pollution because it is a thing where it shouldn’t be, in amounts that it shouldn’t be in. Hot water can be pollution in some contexts, anything can be pollution in the right context.

fml says:

04:04pm | 16/08/11

Carbon monoxide is.

Anna C says:

04:00pm | 16/08/11

Yeah Daniel, I don’t see you writing an article chastising professional protestors like GetUp for organising their protests. How come?  Why the double standard? Why is it legitimate for organisations such as GetUp to organise protests but not for other people or organisations to do the same?

Anna C says:

04:25pm | 16/08/11

Well Daniel, next time GetUp or some other leftie organisation organises a protest I will expect an article criticising them for doing so. I won’t be holding my breath though.

Chris L says:

04:37pm | 16/08/11

Don’t take the criticism personally Daniel. If you don’t agree with everything that comes from the right wing that makes you a latte sipping leftie. Nothing to be done about it.

Notvelty says:

04:39pm | 16/08/11

You had plenty of room in the above article to include a swipe at the, very-well-known GetUp and chose not to.  Had you done so, the article would have been balanced.  Heck, I’d probably have agreed with it.
But you did not.  You took aim at once side.

There’s a word for that.

Vossy says:

04:57pm | 16/08/11

Yep, amazing how this can get published. Im surprised there’s no Australian Government Disclaimer at the bottom.

Anna C says:

04:18pm | 16/08/11

Shane From Melbourne, what the hell is wrong with people protesting against government policies which will have a detrimental effect on their hip pockets? Why are people only supposed to rally in support of high minded ideals? Who the hell are you to tell people when they can and cannot protest? Who made you the boss of everything?

Shane From Melbourne says:

04:58pm | 16/08/11

I don’t see anyone protesting and rallying against Coles / Woolworth duopoly, or the big bad petrol companies or the Banks when they put up interest rates. Oh, it’s only when the government affects our hip pockets? And an ALP government at that. When it is a LNP government we are supposed to bend over and take it from big business…....

fml says:

06:33pm | 16/08/11

Thats because you are labelled communist shane if you don’t let big business have their way with you.

Just close your eyes and think of Abbott.

Fiona says:

08:39pm | 16/08/11

Sadly Shane, protests against those big companies tend to be individual ones and as such don’t usually attract much attention.
Anna c, my kids have said your last sentence to me.

Knemon says:

05:53pm | 16/08/11

Good call ATM.

Anichol says:

09:15pm | 16/08/11

Open YOUR eyes Elphaba!
If coal fired electricity cost’s as much as cleaner alternative’s then people will change and with increased interest in these alternatives their prices will drop.
Very simple isnt it?
You are the fool for being so short sighted.

Majority says:

04:06pm | 16/08/11

Please dont speak for me.

RyaN says:

04:16pm | 16/08/11

@False Majority: I refer you to exhibit A. http://au.nielsen.com/news/200512.shtml

Are you one of Julias liars or are you the original liar.

Hugo says:

04:07pm | 16/08/11

Yes indeed OBZ – a political party did arise choosing to use the loud voice big stick approach. Tell me OBZ how is that political party doing now? Your post seems to back Daniel’s point.

maus says:

04:34pm | 16/08/11

I was ‘forced’ into doing many things that I absolutely did not consent to during the Howard years. Sadly, Christos, democracy doesn’t mean you get what you want all the time.

Andrew says:

05:11pm | 16/08/11

But what if some people did vote for it? What if they voted for the ALP because they thought they would be more likely to take action against this specific issue. Because they are getting their way they tend to be a bit quiet and not complain.

What if those votes are actually the majority? I know i am in favour of the tax, i have never been asked by newspoll who i support, i would think there would be many who also are in this situation.

Speak for yourself, you are entitled to do that, but don’t speak for me.

We don’t have a dictator, we voted for individual people to represent us, one side managed to come up with a majority and the other didn’t. Thats democracy.

Also, the only problem here is that the party that forms government gets to prove they are dishonest whilst the opposition pretends they are completley truthful. If the liberals formed government i dare say we would be seeing similar things about lies and liars but aimed at Tony instead of Julia. Thats the problem.

Neither party are honest and only look after themselves politically.

Tony Abbot may say his role is to oppose but as like all elected officials, i would say his real role is to act in the best interests of the country. neither the ALP/Liberals, Left/Right, progressive/conservative are doing that, but i would say that the ALP has probably been doing it just a little bit more than the liberals.

Steve Putnam says:

08:37pm | 16/08/11

Did you get out and protest when the Howard Government sent our soldiers over to Iraq to fight in a war based on lies and greed? Over a million people took to the streets across the country to make its views known to Canberra to no avail. Makes the 4-5,000 (official police estimate) that turned out to protest the pricing of carbon last time round seem like a drop in the bucket.

B says:

01:22am | 18/08/11

@  Steve Putnam

Millions?  I think you may need to have your head read mate.  Its was NOT millions.  Your looking at around 5000-6000 people.  Around the same amount.

Chris L says:

04:43pm | 16/08/11

Protests by lefties don’t count Maus, they’re just “rent a crowds” or “professional protesters” according to many people here who are defending their own right to protest.

Anubis says:

05:01pm | 16/08/11

I am yet to see any one “demanding more pollution.”. You are getting more absurd with every post Marilyn. They are quite rightly protesting a new tax being levied on the country disguised as an environmental action. Both Garnaut and Flannery are on record as stating that this will do nothing to alleviate environmental problems. The Government itself has acknowledged that our Co2 emissions will continue to rise regardless of the tax.

As for “a tax they won’t be paying” - how deluded are you? As the carbon price will be levied on key economic inputs such as power, gas and transportation there will be a knock on effect on the prices of all goods and services. Power companies will just pass the costs on to consumers. Manufacturers will incorporate their increased prices into their goods when they onsell them. Transportation and distribution costs will increase due to increased fuel charges and these costs will be passed on to retailers. Retailers will have increased costs due to power and gas increases and these will be passed on. By the time goods (food included) reaches the consumer there will be at least 4 maybe 5 applications of increased costs over the price of goods, these are compunded and levied at every stage. Every person in Australia who buys any product, food item or service will be paying this tax. Already places like McDonalds have increased their prices across the board (reported in yesterdays papers) to cover the last round of energy cost increases. Do you really think they will hold back when the Carbon Tax increases come in? Not likely.

Marilyn, please step away from the keyboard, go back to your world of unicorns, rainbows and fairies at the bottom of the garden and at least engage a few braincells before you post any more of your uninformed drivel on the forum.

iansand says:

05:16pm | 16/08/11

In NSW domestic electricity consumption has fallen be 2% pa over the last couple of years.  The electricity company spokesthing I heard (on the biased ABC, of course - it may not have made it to News Ltd publications) seemed to think it had something to do with price signals.

neil says:

05:26pm | 16/08/11

The tax has nothing to do with pollution it’s a tax on carbon dioxide an essential ingredient for life, this is about wealth redistribution.

The sheep are the ones too stupid to see that.

Lyn says:

11:25pm | 17/08/11

What electricity will not go up our jobs wont be lost if this stupid tax goes through.I know my company will lose work if this tax goes through and jobs will go. Who said anything about wanting more pollution. I would agree to doing something about pollution but CO2 is not. the planet could do with more because it helps plants and trees grow. Real pollution on the other ahnd is not being decussed. All schools and Tafe’s are teaching false science and not telling the true picture because it suits Gillard> She needs the money coming in to pay for all the mess they got us into.  I have seen the rubbish they are teaching in Tafe because I did a legal course my daughter is doing a Account course and we were both given a unit on the Substainability and your carbon footprint. nothing to do with the subjects we were doing but given to all.  Leftwing propergannda.

Anubis says:

05:17pm | 16/08/11

AtM - That is not the only problem with these new Super Clinics. It was recently reported that the Tax Department has decided that the Grants given to develop these clinics are taxable income (at the rate of 38%). One GP who received a million dollar grant to develop a Super Clinic invested it all in to the clinic and then got hit with a $380,000 tax bill.  Not really an incentive for the development of new clinics is it?

Against the Man says:

05:44pm | 16/08/11

Yup, Anubis, I posted a link about that last week maybe. But the ALP zombies don’t want to hear about it. I mean they can’t bear to watch their pseudo-policy successes (Malaysian solution and Health) turn out to be some real time major policy f@#k ups.

The ALP boys must sure hate the interweb

Jimmy G says:

06:19pm | 16/08/11

But CJ - he is so much more than that. He thought the science was crap but regretted that Howard didnt ratify Kyoto (as we all know, Howard signed the Kyoto Protocol in 1997) - he admitted he never read any of the science - not the IPCC Synthesis report, not Ian Plimers book - and admits he prefers to get his information on the science from the popular press.

Abbott is the human chameleon - he seems to stand for nothing and everything , whatever the focus groups tell him so goes his soul

stephen says:

09:17pm | 16/08/11

T.A. is of two minds : on the one hand he wants to be credible, honest and PM ; on the other is his responsibilities to Catholicism.
He should decide whether he wants to be a Priest, or Prime Minister.
Having said that though, if Julia isolates The Greens with respect to illegal immigrants and GE foods, (which I think will be a hot topic soon enough) then the Independants will rally, and Labor will be in office until the next election.

Brad says:

10:18pm | 16/08/11

CJ, that is what I love & hate as well. The majority of Australians too. You better get used to it. Tony Abbott will lead the Liberal’s to Government in 2013. In 2023 Labor will have its chance again.

Splash the cash says:

01:51pm | 17/08/11

CJ,
Interesting, all the effort that you have put in in tracking Abbott for 2 years,
But it must piss you off Though, that out of all the observations on your list , IT WILL ALWAYS BE TRUMPED by that one sentence,till the next elecion,
 
        That there will be No Carbonn Tax Under the Govt. I Lead.

Ron V. says:

09:57pm | 18/08/11

CJ; does that stand for ” CUDDLING our JULIE”. Your a moron. Find yourself a quiet corner and give yourself a good uppercut. By the way,which branch of the Labor Party do you belong to. Bet you had 50 or so mates to help you make up your list and I know that if we turned you around twice you couldn’t remember five of them. Actually I was going to call you a P@@@K instead of a moron, but they’re useful.

Ron V. says:

07:33pm | 19/08/11

Jimmy G you poor soul. Where do you get your information from?. Must be the “HANDBOOK FOR IDIOT LABOR MEMBERS”, which has to be learned and remembered before entering Parliament. Do you and CJ share the same computer?.Do as I suggested to CJ, find yourself a quiet corner and give yourself an uppercut.

Adam Smith says:

06:52pm | 16/08/11

@ Clark. I’m still trying to find the point of your post, beside the extremist name-calling rant. You’ll find that Daniel is quite representative of his generation. You’re just another Dinosaur mate. Get extinct.

Mattb says:

07:54pm | 16/08/11

Shit mate, you’ve gotta seriously cut back on the coffee Clark….

Clark says:

09:15pm | 16/08/11

@ Adam Smith, perhaps you should review your own works ... http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html  feel free to pass this on to Daniel and “his generation” who apparently have skipped that portion of free market economies in their uni courses.
Amazing how in all the other sciences, progress is built on existing knowledge, however in the social / political sciences each new generation feels like they have to re-invent the socio-economic wheel… so here we go again.

Fiona says:

08:49pm | 16/08/11

My favourite part of this rally was when angry held up car keys that someone had dropped and asked people to check that they weren’t theirs.

Splash the cash says:

02:46am | 17/08/11

Bill,
Your comment disrespects Fellow Australians.

If you cant understand why then understand this,
That if you dislike what you see or hear, badluck for you. Whether your opinion is right or wrong it is irrelevent ,but you are entitled to it.

What you and others seem to forget is that in a DEMOCRACY the MAJORITY RULES whether they be right or wrong and that pal
is what Matters and is the upmost of importance
They are starting to flex their Muscle and like it or not YOU I and ALL will accept the outcome.

Lyn says:

11:36pm | 17/08/11

I am worried for my kids future and that is why I was there because this isnot about CO2 abuilding block of life NOT a pollutant but about Making sure there is a country left to leave them. Carbon is needed to continue life ( the cycle is carbon to the plants and oxygen back to us) fact of science no matter what Gillard tells you. Look up the internet and research the subject fully and you will see the ocean will not cover us and all is well in the land if the Gov leaces it alone.