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Australia. It’s really horrible. Don’t come here.

Malcolm Farr

by Malcolm Farr

09 May 12:10pm

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Filed under: Asylum Seekers, Julia Gillard, Malaysia, Pacific Solution, Tony Abbott

158 comments

Clear the waffle and you find the Government and the Opposition now have a bipartisan position on dealing with asylum seekers who arrive by boat.

The implicit message in both the government and the opposition's policies

It’s quite simple: Put them in the closest to squalor we dare endorse, and hope that the nastiness of the accommodation deters other refugee hopefuls.

And it is an unmistakable message: Our Hell hole could be worse than the Hell hole you are now living in. Or at least, it might not be worth the risk and expense of setting out by boat to find out.

That is the basic strategy of the Gillard Government’s plan to take in 4000 refugees from Malaysian camps over four years, and send Malaysia 800 refugee applicants now in Australian detention centres.

The Opposition alternative isn’t as convoluted. Tony Abbott would send boat people to Manus Island in Papua-New Guinea, or Nauru. When stripped of legalistic and diplomatic padding, both schemes are essentially the same.

Nauru has not signed United Nations’ conventions on refugees, and nor has Malaysia.

And what it means is that Prime Minister Julia Gillard has been forced to retreat from high-ish moral ground Labor once had on boat people to land with a thud on the bottom step already occupied by Tony Abbott.

It has been a surrender to the political campaign based on the notion that asylum seekers are a major problem for Australia’s economy, culture, security and immigration program.

They are not a problem in any of those areas. In numbers alone, Australians should look to the 25,000 North African boat people who recently have landed on the Italian island of Lampedusa, the southern-most point of Europe.

Tony Abbott was prepared to substantially increase our refugee intake if that gained him the support of independent Andrew Wilkie, but these days accepting 4000 refugees now waiting in Malaysia is an outrage.

The Government has yet to adopt the demonisation policy of the Opposition, which has seen Liberal immigration spokesman Scott Morrison condemn the fact that a high proportion of refugees accepted by Australia depend on welfare.

But it has come close to accepting the Opposition’s view that the small minority of rioters at the detention centre on Christmas Island and at Villawood have demonstrated the entire asylum seeker system is out of control.

It is indeed a huge political problem for the Government, in large part because the national debate has had no room for the positives of a refugee intake, or the responsibilities a nation such as Australia has towards refugees.

And there are many Australians feeling insecure about their own futures who want the Government to tend to them and not a bunch of foreigners who just turn up on our doorstep and demand entry.

The synchronisation of the Opposition and Government policies doesn’t mean the end of Julia Gillard’s political problems.

She will still be portrayed as having lost control of an issue and of having no concerted policy.

There are so many genuine, major problems being faced by Australia, but a lot of energy will continue to be expended on this relatively minor one.

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158 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Richard says:

      12:14pm | 09/05/11

      Its starting to feel a bit like that movie “Children of Men” if you ask me…

      Reply

    • Macca says:

      12:58pm | 09/05/11

      What, that it promised so much and then ended with a whimper, delivering only disappointment?

      Children of Men could have been a great film. It wasn’t. Like the previous Labor Government, Rudd and Gillard had a real opportunity to deliver reform. But just like Alfonso Cuarón they have failed to live up to the hype of the opening scenes.

    • Rev says:

      01:23pm | 09/05/11

      @Macca - read the book by PD James, it is a good read.
      That said, I reckon the book ends with an even greater whimper than the movie, so maybe don’t!

    • Elphaba says:

      01:31pm | 09/05/11

      @Macca, did you read the book though?  PD James.  Awesome. grin

      At $54 000-odd dollars a pop for Labor’s new scheme, it looks like illegal immigration is going to remain a problem for Australia’s economy…

    • Jim says:

      02:23pm | 09/05/11

      “a lot of energy will continue to be expended on this relatively minor one”

      Well then Malcolm - why don’t you expose the Carbon Tax con as being on a minor issue - adter all it is designed to reduce our 1% of 4% man made CO2 by 5% - that is a grand total world reduction of 0.002% !!! (4% * 1% * 5%) - that is really a non issue that you media fail to expose and allow the con of a tax be put on us.

    • Jill says:

      02:28pm | 09/05/11

      You can’t be critical of Gillard now without including Abbott, even though it has been Gillards failure. Oh no - might not get a seat on the next Julia campaign bus when she strokes your ego.

    • acotrel says:

      05:12am | 10/05/11

      @Elphaba
      ‘, it looks like illegal immigration is going to remain a problem for Australia’s economy… ‘

      WHAT is ‘illegal’ about asylum seekers? AGAIN with the demonising slur?

    • Elphaba says:

      11:24am | 10/05/11

      @alcotrel, how do you know they’re all asylum seekers?

    • mom protecting my family it's an instinct and pres says:

      03:47pm | 17/05/11

      ok it’s DIVERSE enough over here in the USA and I am quite tired of having to explain what tyrany and the Constitution are all about.

      Also in what idiot imagination would it be wise to spread poverty, it simply DOES nothing but impoverish us all. We can help other ways.

    • bikinis on top says:

      12:27pm | 09/05/11

      Your comment:As Lex Luthor said the Superman in Superman
      “I am going to the end of the world
      I am going to Australia”
      As Paul keating once said
      Australia is the Arese end of the Earth”

      Reply

    • Mensur Cehic says:

      12:39pm | 09/05/11

      Dislike.

    • Nigel says:

      12:40pm | 09/05/11

      Arese! I love it. I knew Keating wore Italian suits but had no idea he was a fan of Italian cars.

    • n_dude says:

      03:03pm | 09/05/11

      I think that is pronounced ‘ar’-‘eesai”

    • Barny says:

      03:08pm | 09/05/11

      That’s good, perhaps you would like to advertise that on some media outlet, then we would have people who really want to become Australians, not people like yourself who like to bag the Australia that all these loose cannons want to come to. Let real refugees in, the ones waiting in camps for years, approved by UNHR and can’t get in because they don’t have enough money to buy their way in.  People who want to work and make a life for themselves and their families.

    • CD says:

      04:03pm | 09/05/11

      Glad you have something on top - no brains just bikinis apparently -  coz you have no idea what you’re supposed to have on the bottom. 

      Explain again why you live here?

    • Richo says:

      04:04pm | 09/05/11

      Paul Keating was the dope who introduced the insane luxury car tax which actually caused luxury car sales to drop so much, the Government made less revenue than before they hiked the tax rate. Australia now has the world’s most expensive cars, particularly in the mid luxury and luxury range. Nice cars, which many Australians would be able to afford if the huge taxes weren’t in place.

    • Kath Grant says:

      05:29pm | 09/05/11

      Barny, if you live in Afganistan there is no queue.

    • BK says:

      06:58pm | 09/05/11

      Kath

      You are right in the sense that there is no orderly queue like the one to get to the checkouts at Woolies. However, the fact remains that for every person let in, someone else misses out. Some government department must have a list and should publicise it, so we could compare those that get in to those who don’t and see who is more genuinely needy.

    • acotrel says:

      05:15am | 10/05/11

      get off your arese and tell Abbott he’s not helping by carping from the sidelines.

    • John C says:

      12:32pm | 09/05/11

      I do not normally support the policies of the Gillard government because as a whole they are unsupportable. I must however give some credit to them for the deal made with Malaysia. As far as I can see, Australia will flick 800 economic refugees off to Malaysia and in return we can help 4000 genuine refugees who have lived and are living in appalling conditions and who have not tried to jump the queue.

      That said, there are some caveats. First, the flicked 800 must be fingerprinted or otherwise given permanent identification so that they do not again get on a boat and jump the queue. Secondly, there must be a system put in place to ensure that Malaysia sends us the deserving rather than 4000 that they want most to get rid of.

      And it really is only a band-aid solution but it does have some merit.

      The only real way out is to get out of the Refugee Treaty so that we can get greater flexibility and remove legal loopholes that the do-gooders in the courts use to destroy the system, increase our refugee program substantially (I have no problem with a multiple of 5) but limit it to genuine UN processed refugees only (no economic opportunists), and make it clear that people who come in irregularly and seek refugee status (sea, air or however) will never get permanent residence.

      Reply

    • Anne_N says:

      02:39pm | 09/05/11

      @ John C

      I would agree with a rescinding of the Treaty but it relies somewhat on us having a fairly conservative government to administer an acceptible alternative policy.  We may not like the rules, but at least there are rules.

      I fear that some time in the future we may have a real far left leaning government who, unrestrained of a mere Treaty, will say “Open the borders, let them all in”...

    • christine m. says:

      02:48pm | 09/05/11

      Agree.  The Refugee Treaty - renounce/renege/revoke.  And what is the point of Malcolm Farr mentioning the thousands washing up on the shores of Lampedusa?  They aren’t staying there!

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      03:14pm | 09/05/11

      Could not agree more. We must get out of this stupid Convention. It totally removes our sovereign right to say who can come here. 
       
      I favour sending the refugees somewhere that the refugee advocate industry cannot reach. Who is causing all this trouble, winding up the so-called asylum seekers to burn detention centres? Who is printing those rather natty flags and banners they unfurl on the roof before they torch the building? Who provides them with mobile phones so they can be given directions on when and where to demonstrate?

    • Richo says:

      04:15pm | 09/05/11

      It should be noted however, that Australia’s refugee program of the last 10 years has been nothing short of a dreadful failure, both socially and economically. Not just the ones arriving in boats but the ones from the official channels too.
      http://www.perthnow.com.au/refugees-blunder-costing-us-billions/story-fn6mhct1-1226052078152
      “NOW even the Gillard Government knows the truth about its bungled refugee program. The people it’s bringing in are costing us billions, with 85 per cent of refugees on Centrelink benefits in their first five years here.”

    • CD says:

      04:17pm | 09/05/11

      Tony you have hit the nail on the head.

      There is an industry flourishing and should we shut down the detention centres and the smuggling racket these abusers of the public purse inc lawyers and paid advocates would have nothing to live on.

      I have no doubt some of these refugees are following some ill advised people at times and think there is a lot of trouble brewing and it is not all started by people inside the detention centres.

    • Jonno says:

      05:30pm | 09/05/11

      John C
      you spew the same lousy argument that so many others do in this country.
      What queue? where does it exist in rural Afghanistan, Iraq, the Tamil provinces of Sri Lanka.

      Have you been to any of these places? I have, I can attest to the facts you routinely dismiss out of racism and ignorance.
      They don’t have access to embassy’s, officials, documents or anything that would allow for a line to join in, that you think exists.

      The mast majority are NOT economic refugees, the vast majority are fleeing persecution. Imagine a father if a small remote village on Afghanistan, his family under siege of war, many of his relatives massacred by the Taliban for not joining the fight. He hears of a place with a land of plenty, and kind people “Australia”.
      He gets here however he can in hopes he can bring his family to a place of safety.

      However according to you, because he did not travel to Kabul, fill out official papers in an embassy he cannot enter, he should not be eligible.

      Your ignorance is only superceded by racism. All of you who put a price tag on such a small amount of people who are trying to escape the most deplorable circumstances.

      All of you who agree, should be very truthful, and very direct. If you want a return to the “White Only” days of immigration, then stand up and be counted.

      However also recognize that if Australia does go down that path, then it would face very tough sanctions by the rest of the world, for becoming the new apartied state.

      You all make me ashamed to be Australian, you have no compassion or care for your fellow man.

      These are not the rants of a “Left Leaning” nut job, but an independent business person - who works hard to make a living. But a man that can also see pain and desperation in this world, and would hope we as a society would reach out an help.

    • Macka says:

      06:01pm | 09/05/11

      Jonno, it’s all very good for you to sit back, say you’ve seen these countries (I have too mate) and shout off how unfair it is that we don’t let more people in.

      But who’s going to pay for it Jonno, you? Are you going to get the cheque book out and cover the accomodation, language training, job training, food….need I go on?

      Our economy isn’t a charity, yes we are obliged and should welcome those less fortunate into our country, but it’s not a full time job.

      Most average earning Australian’s are struggling as it is to just live with the ever increasing cost of living in this country, let alone having to pay MORE tax to pay for handouts so that others can eat and live off the system.

      You talk about being ashamed to be Australia…but these policies are the reason we’re not full of assylum seekers who add no value whatsoever to our society. Unlike you’re apparent Utopian view on these people, they’re not all upstanding citizens of the world.

      Life isn’t meant to be champagne and caviar for everyone Jonno.

    • acotrel says:

      05:24am | 10/05/11

      @JohnC
      ‘The only real way out is to get out of the Refugee Treaty so that we can get greater flexibility and remove legal loopholes that the do-gooders in the courts use to destroy the system, increase our refugee program substantially (I have no problem with a multiple of 5) but limit it to genuine UN processed refugees only (no economic opportunists), and make it clear that people who come in irregularly and seek refugee status (sea, air or however) will never get permanent residence.’

      You’re obviously confortable with the way Howard denied asylum seekers access to the courts, when he was dictator ?  Not a problem or concern about basic human rights?  You probably believe it’s also OK to cross borders and kill an unarmed man, and excuse it by claiming it was part of a war? Do we in the west really have the moral high ground?

    • AliceC says:

      12:36pm | 09/05/11

      It does feel like a lot on energy is being used for such a small number of people, who simply need help. No one is outraged by the tens of thousands of people overstaying their work Visas illegally, and taking jobs from Australian citizens.

      Reply

    • Nick says:

      01:31pm | 09/05/11

      If it is true that 95% of boat people are on some form of social security after 5 years of being here then I can understand why so many Australians are outraged..

    • Craig says:

      01:40pm | 09/05/11

      That’s because visa overstayers are by and large, white and Christian.  No cheap political points to be made there!

    • Eskimo says:

      02:00pm | 09/05/11

      People who over stay their visas did not burn their passports before they got here. At least they were subject to the necessary criminal & health checks before they arrived.

    • Ryan says:

      02:29pm | 09/05/11

      @Craig: what a racist you are to bring race into this. How do you know there aren’t any white refugees, are you so racist that you just assume because they are refugees they are not white? Disgusting, hang your head in shame.

    • Snake says:

      02:32pm | 09/05/11

      Taking jobs from Australian citizens? You have nothing to fear of this new lot coming in then… Recent statistics are throwing numbers around in the 80% for unemployed north africans arriving on our shores. Heaven forbid they take our jobs.

      Governments need to focus on infrastructure to support the poor sods they think they can house, not just make deals for the sake of making deals. Then again, you don’t expect that much of Gillard do you? She has done the one thing I never thought any politician in the world could do… She has made Rudd look good.

    • Ben81 says:

      02:34pm | 09/05/11

      Visa overstayers are actively pursued as they should be and aren’t claiming refugee status and all the responsibilities and resources that asks of us.  We also generally know who they are and they’ve met Australia’s character requirements for entry.

      Either way, the argument of “people are overstaying their visas therefore we should hand over part of our refugee intake to people smugglers and reopen detention centres for the thousands that arrive”, and really that’s what the argument comes down to, is plain dumb.

    • Mitch says:

      03:09pm | 09/05/11

      Loving the truthiness and ‘facts’ here.

      “Taking jobs from Australian citizens? You have nothing to fear of this new lot coming in then… Recent statistics are throwing numbers around in the 80% for unemployed north africans arriving on our shores. Heaven forbid they take our jobs.”
      wtf?  The highest unemployment rate is from East Africans at 19%, the vast majority of whom are accepted through humanitarian visa and UN camps i.e. higher than the apparent ‘economic refugees’ who apparently come here and don’t work, apparently.  80% might be the percentage on some sort of welfare payment, this includes things like rent assistance, HECS assistance etc, not necessarily the dole.

      “People who over stay their visas did not burn their passports before they got here. At least they were subject to the necessary criminal & health checks before they arrived. “
      Because it’s so easy for Hazara’s to get passports, or Tamil’s to get passports, from the very government that is persecuting them.  If they went and tried to get a passport, they’d be much more likely to get a bullet in the back of the head, so don’t make up crap thanks.

      “what a racist you are to bring race into this. How do you know there aren’t any white refugees, are you so racist that you just assume because they are refugees they are not white? Disgusting, hang your head in shame. “
      You can’t honestly say this isn’t about race.  It’s a proven vote winner.  Why do you think so many news reports have to point out that an attack was done by Sudanese/Lebanese/Arab youth?  I’ve never seen them talk about an attack and specifically refer to “white youth”.  It builds the perception that race and ethnicity are reasons behind a crime.  The same applies to refugees and asylum seekers.  Australian’s have always had a fear of invasion from funny looking people from the north, hence the Liberals even throwing around the word ‘invasion’.

    • marley says:

      03:18pm | 09/05/11

      @Craig - “visa stayers are by and large, white and Christian.”  As a matter of fact, no, they’re not. While the US and the UK are in the top ten for overstayers, the majority of overstayers are actually from China (our top source), Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Korea, and other Asian countries.

    • christine m. says:

      03:34pm | 09/05/11

      AliceC, it won’t remain a small number of people.  It will become a never-ending stream.  @Ben81 is right - we don’t hear this enough.

    • dovif says:

      05:08pm | 09/05/11

      There is no need to worry about the refugees taking the jobs, since they are all on welfare. However since they are all on welfare, it does partly explain what happened to the ALP budget

    • dovif says:

      05:08pm | 09/05/11

      There is no need to worry about the refugees taking the jobs, since they are all on welfare. However since they are all on welfare, it does partly explain what happened to the ALP budget

    • Kath Grant says:

      05:42pm | 09/05/11

      Totally agree AliceC.  These ‘money grabbing demons’ are actually human beings, as you say, needing help.  There was the same war of words over Vietnamese refugees who are now doctors, lawyers, reporters etc.  I would venture a guess that there are less of them on welfare at the moment than there are Australians.
      I sincerely hope that the idea of karma is incorrect otherwise we could one day find ourselves in the same situation.

    • Mouse says:

      05:53pm | 09/05/11

      Elphaba, rflmao,  you twisted individual you.  Love your work LOL

    • Elphaba says:

      06:34pm | 09/05/11

      @Mouse wink

    • Terry says:

      12:36pm | 09/05/11

      We can’t afford these queue jumpers, or any other Gillard stupidity.  The Govt borrows another $1 Billion everyweek to fund its lunatic programs.
      We have gone from a positive $60 Billion in the Future Fund down to a debt of $150 Billion in just 4 years.
      Tomorrow, Swannee will deliver any debt-laden budget which will drag us down another $50 Billion.
      The Labor Govt has delivered 9 deficits in a row!!!
      Tax and spend other people’s money - that’s the only consistent Labor strategy.

      Reply

    • Balala says:

      02:55pm | 09/05/11

      Er… I’m confused, and not just by your maths. Labor has only been in government for three-and-a-half years, not 9…

    • TimB says:

      03:41pm | 09/05/11

      Balala, I’m sure Terry is only taking Labor delivered budgets into account when he says “in a row”

      Ignore the 11 year period of Coalition budgets in the middle and keep going back through the Keating era. There’s your ‘9-in-a-row’.

    • A different Rosie says:

      05:51pm | 09/05/11

      They aren’t bloody queue jumbers - there is no queue for the poor souls to get onto.

    • Mensur Cehic says:

      12:37pm | 09/05/11

      Probably one of the most accurate articles on the current refugee topic/issue I have read so far.

      Having arrived in Australia on a permanent residency for refugees in 1995, I am saddened to see that those few rioters can spin the process “out of control” for those who actually may have a valid reason to stay in Australia.

      I am also disappointed that we are not dealing with the root cause of these issues in some of the countries used as main human trafficing nodes. Instead we have a political freak show and neither side is a protagonist.

      Reply

    • Adam says:

      07:22pm | 09/05/11

      The process is also hampered by the 80% of boatpeople who destroy their documentation just before entering Australian waters. The do gooders always make excuses for them, such as saying they had to flee in a hurry and didn’t have time to grab their important identify documents (passport, etc). But most Aussies don’t buy this cock and bull story, knowing full well that it clearly conflicts with the fact they left their wife and children behind. Plus, somehow in the mad rush to flee they’ve managed to sell their home and possessions to get the cash to come here.

      Sadly, destroying their documentation allows numerous illegitimate refugees to get through the immigration system (this is why they destroy their documents and why about 99% are accepted). This in turn means Australians are often suspicious of all refugees; given many are illegitimate and just milking the immigration system to get in and then the welfare system once they are here. I fear that for those with valid reasons to stay, such as yourself, you just get tarred with the same brush.

    • Jay Santos says:

      12:40pm | 09/05/11

      Memo to wealthy economic refugees considering a boat trip to Australia: wait your turn, there are others more deserving.

      In an unprecendented and spectacular flip-flop Gillard has hung herself with her own petard.

      As the former Shadow Immigration Minister saying she would only send ‘refugees’ to countries who were UN HR signatories makes a mockery of her ‘new paradigm’. 

      Her “another boat on the way, another policy failure” meme underscores what a pathetic joke this government is.

      Who chooses which 800 go?  Who chooses which 4000 will come?

      The lawyers are going to have a field day.

      Reply

    • Knemon says:

      01:11pm | 09/05/11

      “wealthy economic refugees” - I do get a giggle from comments like this…if they were so wealthy they would have arrived here in comfort…like on a plane and not in a leaky boat - perhaps they couldn’t find the queue?

    • Peter says:

      01:36pm | 09/05/11

      Knemon..you are either ignorant or a fool.Had they arrived by plane they would of needed passports and documentation which would enable authorities to determine whether they were in fact true refugees.It amazes me how these illegal boat people can get her from Afghanistan without a passport or documentation.Its a pretty long walk.

    • John C says:

      01:39pm | 09/05/11

      Knemon

      It is cheaper to fly here from Indonesia, where most of the boats originate, than to pay the thousands of dollars asked by the smugglers. The reason they come by boat is because they do not have the necessary documentation or they cannot get a tourist visa. As to whether they lack papers because they have lost them or cannot get them, or because they have deliberately destroyed them because they will not support refugee status, depends upon your point of view.

    • Jay Santos says:

      01:56pm | 09/05/11

      “...if they were so wealthy they would have arrived here in comfort…like on a plane…”

      Obviously not an economist.

      Why waste money on expensive airfares and risky forged documents?

      Current boat arrivals are predominantly Middle-Eastern in origin.  Under the UN charter they are required to seek asylum in the first country of arrival on fleeing their home country.  They pass through several countries before showing up here so cannot legitimately seek asylum.

      The mainly Afghan, Iraqi, Iranian, Sri Lankan and Pakistani men have chosen to leave their families behind (so how bad is their domestic situation really?) to be smuggled into this country by boat from Indonesia.

      This clearly signals an economic motivation over any humanitarian need and does not immediately confer on them the right to any special treatment.

      But you already knew that.

    • Ando says:

      02:07pm | 09/05/11

      Knemon,
      How much does an airfare cost? $2000?
      I hear people smugglers are paid quite a bit more.

    • l3xm4rk says:

      03:14pm | 09/05/11

      I’d love for someone to tell me how someone who is being persecuted by their government, applies to that government for a passport and a visa. It’s so moronic this idea that they can’t possibly be genuine refugees if they don’t have a passport. How the hell are they supposed to get one? Go down to the local government office and ask for one?

      Madness.

    • CD says:

      03:47pm | 09/05/11

      Knemon the nimrod.  Loves a joke that makes no sense.  Try a little maths sunshine.  $5,000-$20,000 for a boat ride through hell but at most a thousand or two for a plane ride.

      Oh wait you need a visa or passport to prove who you are for that plane ride tho right? An honest queue jumper - coz now Big Julia says there is a queue strangely, funny that - would just overstay a visa right with the family so why go through that hell on a leaky boat leaving the wife and kids behind to deal with the nightmare of the homeland?

      Think about it Knemon.

      Therein lies the rub funnyman

    • buckyboy says:

      05:48pm | 09/05/11

      Unfortunately, Knenom’s ignorance is a prime example of why Australia is quickly becoming a basket case. As long as the Knenoms of the world are able to vote, we will continue to endure pathetic, incompetent governments like the Gillard circus.

    • Ryan says:

      06:10pm | 09/05/11

      @Knemon: how do you think they get to Indonesia, of course they fly there.

    • Joel B1 says:

      12:48pm | 09/05/11

      “Clear the waffle and you find the Government and the Opposition now have a bipartisan position”

      Sure, except one of those groups mentioned lied and lied and lied.

      At least you know what you’re voting for with Tony Abbott. Who knows what Gillard will do next?

      Gillard’s ALP/Green government is a loose cannon on the deck of the good ship Australia.


      PS You just can’t write ANYTHING critical about Gillard can you Farr? It’s always Abbott this, Abbott that. I pity you son.

      Reply

    • Ryan says:

      12:28am | 10/05/11

      “...one of those groups mentioned lied and lied and lied.

      At least you know what you’re voting for with Tony Abbott.”

      Exactly. More lies, lies and lies. That’s why most people didn’t.

    • Gavin says:

      12:47am | 10/05/11

      What suburb do you think farr lives in? Has he ever been to western Sydney?

    • Knemon says:

      12:50pm | 09/05/11

      “Julia Gillard has been forced to retreat from high-ish moral ground Labor once had on boat people to land with a thud on the bottom step already occupied by Tony Abbott”

      Ain’t that the truth…a race to the bottom, at least they can now hold hands as they both jump from the bottom step!

      Reply

    • MarK says:

      12:50pm | 09/05/11

      Awww diddums Mal.

      Clear the waffle and what we see is a desperate attempt from a failed government to keep its head above water.

      It is clear this was a last attempt to do ANYTHING to nullify this issue. The government has bled on it. Lucky for them apologist still abound that will not call them for their hypocritical and cowardly actions but rather, as the author does here, attempts to make Abbott the bad guy.

      It is interesting to note though that EXACTLY like Abbott did to Rudd so he doing to Gillard. Abbott, as Mal has acknowledged and should really just come and say (it’s ok Mal we all know this – so do you so fess up), sets the political agenda in Australia today. He is the de facto PM. He really is in charge. He is the most influential figure in Canberra at the moment.

      Look at todays articles for example on The Punch.

      Briggs is the Puncher from the Liberals. A day out from the budget, which is kind of a pointless exercise now it has all been leaked, we have the governments own first mate of HMAS Welfare as seen in the last election staring for refo’s off the port bow, Bradbury, reduced to counterpunch status.

      Always answering. Never leading. Always playing catch up.

      “And what it means is that Prime Minister Julia Gillard has been forced to retreat from high-ish moral ground Labor once had on boat people to land with a thud on the bottom step already occupied by Tony Abbott.”

      What Mal meant was Gillard had to bow to the inevitable and admit she has no idea. She and her whole, and I will be very gracious here and acknowledge that total befuddlement is an agenda of sorts, agenda is driven by Abbott and what he says. And how about that great bit of negotiation, without the foreign minister (snigger), that saw us in a 5 for 1 deal and paying for the lot. You sure showed those Malaysians what for eh Julia. Another example of Julia’s much vaunted negotiation skills being nothing more than abject capitulation and kowtowing. Mere fawning. Desperation writ large.

      This is so familiar to the downward spiral Rudd was on it is scary.

      Time to go Julia. Labor needs an adult in charge.

      Even Gratten is pondering what would happen if they dump the Carbon Tax. When the sycophants over The Age start to look bemused then the end is truly nigh. Labor have to dump Gillard. They have to dump the current batch of reactionary crap that is passing for policy and get an adult in charge.

      They need to do this soon. Hope Brown is enjoying being in government with a partner that is happy to see people caned and whipped. Real compassionate. Real Labor.

      Reply

    • buckyboy says:

      06:01pm | 09/05/11

      Farr, Oakes, Gratten, Marr and all the Labor apologists are just like the orchestra members who bravely kept playing on the deck of the Titanic as it slowly sank into the icy waters of Atlantic ocean.

      Mal….it’s all over, red rover!

    • Dash says:

      12:56pm | 09/05/11

      What a joke! Every time the ALP gets it wrong, Farr has to tell us, its bipartisan or that they are now on the same step as the opposition. Basically that’s a load of bullshit!

      It was Gillard who stood up and announced to the world that she had an East Timor Solution. When reality was, it never existed. She hadn’t even paid the East Timor government the courtesy of discussing it with them. It was never a policy, it was never in place and it never will be! And that lie, on the eve of the last election had zero to do with the LNP or Tony Abbott!!!

      Now we have a situation where this joke of a government has done a deal with Malaysia, a country which has not signed the very agreement which Gillard held up as being fundamental to her East Timor “policy”. And this great deal will now see 800 go to Malaysia and 4,000 come to Australia WTF!!! So we’ve effectively outsourced our border control to a nation which has a history of Anti-Australian sentiment and as mentioned, is not a signatory to Gillard’s fundamentally required intrernational asylum agreement!!! Want to come too Australia? Get off at Malaysia!

      That is not LNP policy, and never has been Malcom Farr!!!

      This is a large issue for this government because they failed to deliver what they promised the Australian people back in 2007 and again in 2010! They did not provide a workable solution to the problem. They did not put in place the Coast Guard they promised us. And they lied when they said “ALP policy is that intercepted boats should be turned around”(not one has been), “Today I announce an East Timor Solution” (it never existed), and “There will be no on-shore detension centres” (Three have been announced).

      When will ALP sympathisers like Farr, hold this government accountable for what they say and do, rather than continually making excuses for their incompetence. This issue is of the governments making. No one is forcing them to make the decisions or the announcements they have. Nor has anyone encouraged them to lie to the Australian people.

      Add to this, the failure to deliver on a raft of promises (grocery choice, fuelwatch, root and branch tax reform, 260 childcare centres, cheaper better childcare, more affordable housing, cash for clunkers, we wont touch the private health tax rebate, the coastguard etc etc) and this government has not one ounce of credibility left. They are complete fools! They spin and lie to us, and lefty jurnos like Farr fall for it every time and become their mouth piece.

      Reply

    • SG says:

      01:01pm | 09/05/11

      Can someone explain to me why we need to take predominantly muslim refugees from a safe, predominantly muslim country? Is there a war or famine in Malaysia we don’t know about? They can’t claim to be in danger because of their religious beliefs, so why do they need to be re-settled from Malaysia?
      Why are we not criticising Malaysia in the UN for not accepting these refugees as permanent residents? How come Malaysia get to refuse to grant any rights to these people, but we in Australia are the bad guys?
      The whole thing smacks of double standards, but our Government meekly surrenders, while the rest of Asia laugh.

      Reply

    • MarK says:

      01:10pm | 09/05/11

      Sorry I can’t.

    • Adam Diver says:

      02:08pm | 09/05/11

      Whips! A country still using whips probably doesn’t have a large ideological based media contigent and vocal left minority to curtail to at every issue.

      This issue doesn’t exist if Labor don’t completely f*** things up to start with. I worry about the thought patterns of Labor sympathisers, and wait with interest to hear the Punch, left-leaning fan club explain the massive back-flip (again) of the Labor compassion juggernaught.

    • Amused Qld says:

      02:29pm | 09/05/11

      You are soooo right, I hadnt even thought of that.

    • CD says:

      03:40pm | 09/05/11

      Um yeah,,,,sat here for a while but got nothing.  Bloody good post actually SG!  Bloody good post.

    • buckyboy says:

      07:38pm | 09/05/11

      Bravo… what clear and unambiguous questions.  Don’t hold your breath waiting for answers to compliment your excellent questions….please email your comment here to Tony Abbott.

    • Steve says:

      01:15pm | 09/05/11

      I hope the photo joutnalists will be on hand when the first plane load have to be removed from the plane with force.

      Reply

    • Rosie says:

      01:23pm | 09/05/11

      Mal can’t help yourself but equate Abbott to Gillard. There is a difference Mal, Abbott is willing to admit to it where as Gillard is saying these things to get public approval before she actually does anything about it.

      It must be to your dissatisfaction that Gillard and Bowen are not getting the public response they were hoping for, made worse that the Greens are down their throats on the issue.

      Oh how I wish Abbott was in power, he would just do the bloody thing, then we can all have a go at him to concentrate on the genuine refugees who needs us to take care of them.

      Reply

    • Joan says:

      12:36am | 10/05/11

      @ Rosie

      Those would be the refugees this deal will safely deliver, wouldn’t they?

    • Andy says:

      01:23pm | 09/05/11

      Tony Abbott was prepared to substantially increase our refugee intake if that gained him the support of independent Andrew Wilkie, but these days accepting 4000 refugees now waiting in Malaysia is an outrage.
      But in Abbotts case Australia decide what refugees we take,  and in Gillards case Malaysia will decide which refugees we accept.

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      01:55pm | 09/05/11

      Yep Andy Gillard and the ALP has just outsourced our border control to….Malaysia! A country that is not a signatory to the international treaty Gillard keeps harping on about and a country that has a record of Anti-Australian sentiment!

      And who’s holding her accountable for standing up before the last election and announcing the East Timor Solution which never existed?? Yet another lie from the ALP. Surely they have zero credibility left?

    • Bob says:

      01:48pm | 10/05/11

      And Gillard was willing to promise so much more to anyone and everyone.

      Which is why she’s currently head one of the most disastrous and by a wide margin, least competent governments on record while Abbott is waiting for several elections worth of clear Liberal majorities.

      Gillard couldn’t afford not to offer the moon.

    • Bruce says:

      01:24pm | 09/05/11

      800 for 4000 in return ? You could just hear the Malaysian government negotiators saying ‘look out the Australian negotiators are coming’... Ha !.. Ha !... Ha !......we will go for 3000 if they will take 4000, deal done !

      Reply

    • Dash says:

      01:52pm | 09/05/11

      Bruce, why would these idiots in government, outsource our border protection to Malaysia???? And can someone please tell Gillard that Malaysia is not a signatory to the international treaty she is meant to hold so highly!

    • Joan says:

      02:35pm | 09/05/11

      We get 4000 plus the 5200 still left on Christmas Island.. Australia ends up with 9200.  The boats won’t stop, the risk is still worth it, the people smugglers will just discount rate and load up with more people per trip to make up the difference. Of course Malaysia laughing hard at the suckers running Australia

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      01:45pm | 09/05/11

      As we have seen from the problems at the detention centres, there are an element of these supposed “refugees” who are opportunist criminals. I think processing everyone offshore is a very good idea to distinguish the genuine refugee from the opportunist criminal. Don’t you?

      Reply

    • Nonmus says:

      01:46pm | 09/05/11

      I guess it comes down to whether you accept the undocumented boat people are actually ‘asylum seekers’, or simply opportunistic illegal immigrants taking cynical advantage of the soft border policies of an inept minority government, grimly determined to do and say whatever it takes to cling to Green support and power. After watching Bolt’s interview with the GetUp! poster boy boat person on Sunday I’m now more inclined than ever to believe the latter.

      Reply

    • Ben81 says:

      01:58pm | 09/05/11

      What a load of absolute garbage, the fact we now have over 6500 people in immigration detention instead of a few fundred and people smuggling is again rife in our region isn’t a problem?  How many more years does this have to go on and how many more detention centres do we need to open before you wake up, Malcolm?

      Yes, we are well aware other countries have a bigger problem with refugees.  There’s millions of them.  Arguing against taking in our fair share responsibly is just plain stupidity and the comparison is just as bad, are we supposed to open up tent cities ourselves for tens of thousands of them and then think about doing something as if we’ll magically get the resources freed up to settle them as we do now?
      Really, what possible reason is still left to defend the current situation and argue agains doing something about it?  Can’t bring yourself to admit Howard and the Liberal party were right all along and weren’t the evil monsters Labor used to make them out to be even though the party has effectively done that themselves?

      Reply

    • Mike says:

      02:00pm | 09/05/11

      Sounds more humane to be housed in detention on Nauru, Manus or Christmas Island where your fed, you are safe and have health checks and treatment provided, than to be sent somewhere where you could be whipped, tortured and starved.

      Reply

    • Alicia says:

      02:08pm | 09/05/11

      Yep and Gillard is standing on her podium thinking she looks tough, but her solution is far crueler than Abbotts. She should be ashamed.

    • Super D says:

      02:10pm | 09/05/11

      The question that any sensible journalist should be asking is “How much would it cost to send 800 Asylum Seekers to Nauruand how many of their refugees would we have to take in return?”

      Reply

    • Luke says:

      02:18pm | 09/05/11

      So if a boat load of women and young children turn up Gillard is going to send them by force if necessary to be dumped on the streets of Malaysia? Pictures of this will make Tampa look like a picnic. Good luck with that one Julia!

      Reply

    • Kimberley says:

      02:44pm | 09/05/11

      She’s overplayed her hand. She’ll make Abbott look like Mother Theresa when this gets underway. Sick people, pregnant women, small children to be sent to a country where they will be abused tortured and caned. Another ALP mess about to unfold.

    • James says:

      03:58pm | 09/05/11

      She wouldn’t have thought that far ahead, Labor never do.

    • Steve says:

      04:06pm | 09/05/11

      Kimberley I think you are right. It will be the coalition with the most humane approach of the 2 main parties. I look forward to the greens and Tasmanian switching their support to the coalition. I can already see images of local police prising the hands off the arm rests and dragging them off the plane at KL airport. It will not be a good look for Gillard at all.

    • CD says:

      04:38pm | 09/05/11

      I’m just waiting to see what happens when they try and get these people onto the waiting planes.

      They’re not happy with their conditions now and look at the result so I have no idea what Gillard thinks will happen when she decides to move any.

      I don’t believe for a moment this is going to work. Just cannot see it. They seem to know their rights and they have enough advocates pushing them with their legal avenues.

      Should be interesting.

    • poa says:

      02:31pm | 09/05/11

      Pathetic journalism again Malcom. Pretending that Gillards Malaysian 5 to 1 solution is comparable to the Liberals Naruu. You must’ve gone to the Leni Riefenstahl school of journalism mate.
      (Look it up)
      No criticism from you that Gillard won’t go soft on the pregnant women and “children”. No criticism from you about backflips and failures on the Gillard government.
      They promise you a safe seat somewhere buddy? There are no safe ALP seats anymore Mal, and even if there was…you wouldn’t want to live there!

      Reply

    • A different Rosie says:

      06:04pm | 09/05/11

      Actually leni Riefenstah was a cinematographer who produced a lot of propaganda for the Nazis.  What’s your point?

    • poa says:

      12:32pm | 10/05/11

      Propaganda.
      Mal is trying to selling us the ALP lie….“there is only a cigarette papers difference in the policies of the Coalition and Gillard”
      Difference is Leni was a genius in her time…

    • Deeman says:

      02:33pm | 09/05/11

      I live in Fairfield where there are a lot refugees settle. Most came here when the liberals were in power. No matter who is in power they will still come. Dont forget most of your ancestors were boat people or people from other countries.

      Reply

    • Ben81 says:

      02:55pm | 09/05/11

      “II live in Fairfield where there are a lot refugees settle. Most came here when the liberals were in power. No matter who is in power they will still come.”

      Good for them, lots came in while the Liberals were in power.  I don’t remember the Liberals ever setting out to stop our refugee intake though - just people smuggling.  What’s your point?

    • Your name:JC says:

      04:03pm | 09/05/11

      30years ago there wasnt the ability to sit back and collect the welfare cheque that you can live comfortably on without lifting a finger. Back then you had to contribute - there was an expectation. Back then Govt departments didnt issue every document in a 1000 languages. Back then integration wasnt a fantasy.

    • Alice Coleman says:

      06:53am | 21/07/11

      I think Deeman makes a good point. Most of our ancestors had to move to wherever we live at some point. Refugees is a sad and difficult topic, no matter what your stance is or how you look at it. I hope that they can figure out reasonable solutions to this, as moving thousands of refugees is not easy. It’s not easy for them to move either.

    • Debbie says:

      02:39pm | 09/05/11

      The idea is obviously not to send anyone to Malaysia - the idea is that would be “back door sneaks” don’t even bother trying ... why waste your money and risk your life to end up halfway back home.

      Reply

    • aw says:

      02:45pm | 09/05/11

      Whats wrong with having strong boarders. You journos seem to love sticking up for boat people. Boat people are fundamentally different to real refugees.

      You want refugee status and treatment under conventions? Get in the line and follow the process.

      You get on a boat and try to jump the line, you throw away your right to orderly treatment and process. You are no longer a refugee.

      Reply

    • All aboard says:

      03:02pm | 09/05/11

      “What’s wrong with having strong boarders”?

      Nothing at all. When I was a young man, my mother told me about nanna having to take in boarders during the depression. Some of the boarders were quite strong and worked in really manly jobs.  They lifted large stones and carried all manner of heavy things around to try and make a buck. They were indeed very strong boarders.
      The only downside Mum said was that they ate heaps of food at dinnertime in the boarding house.

      PS - what are boat people? Do they come from the land of boat? I know there are hundreds of countries in the world some of which I’m sure I have never heard of.
      Is there a country called boat now?
      What do boarders have to do with boat people anyway. Are boarders in Australia usually from the land of boat?

    • marley says:

      03:20pm | 09/05/11

      You should read the Convention some time.  A boat person is covered by it.

    • Markus says:

      04:51pm | 09/05/11

      By entering Australian waters without a Visa, they also breach Australian Law and can be detained until such time as their application for refugee status has been assessed.

      “Anyone who arrives without a valid travel document, visa or authority to enter Australia, may be refused entry to Australia or delayed until their identity and claims to enter Australia have been confirmed.”

      Not disposing of the identity papers that got them as far as Indonesia would assist greatly in the assessment timeframes.
      Then again, it would also assist greatly in determining that their stories are complete bunk…

    • James1 says:

      04:53pm | 09/05/11

      Also, sometimes when I wear weak boarders, they come straight off if I get hit by a big wave.  I go for strong boarders every time.

    • A different Rosie says:

      06:12pm | 09/05/11

      I wish I believed in god - I’d ask him to forgive you and all the other commentators like you.

    • teresa maynard says:

      03:29pm | 09/05/11

      HOW is this a solution???  Cannot they come up with something better, this is just a trade off to appear to be doing something to alleviate the problem.

      Reply

    • jg says:

      03:35pm | 09/05/11

      This government is funny. I can’t wait for the budget to see what other pearls they have in store.

      Reply

    • al says:

      03:35pm | 09/05/11

      The main question I have, for each of the 4000 we are to accept, that would fund a federal public service position for a full year at the mid-level (not including executives APS 3 or 4).
      What do we get in return for this cost?

      Reply

    • Zaf says:

      03:36pm | 09/05/11

      “Our Hell hole could be worse than the Hell hole you are now living in.”

      Convincing! And effective, because this approach really worked with Reefer Madness.

      Reply

    • Bill of Queensland says:

      03:47pm | 09/05/11

      Pile on the pressure till they crack and depart or perish! Message to all illegal arrivals, you are not needed here, you are not wanted here, you are not welcome here! We are not moved by your attention seeking antics! We are not deceived by the farrago of lies peddled by economic opportunists who have travelled to Indonesia bypassing normal UN and Australian legal channels to come to Australia and destroy their identification documents which extends the time needed to process you at the Christmas Island visa factory.  We want the government to take back the right to govern abdicated to the UN and govern for the Australian voters who elected them! Remove the pull factor! Rescind the UN convention on refugees! The obsolete dysfunctional UN guidelines have been grossly exploited by people smugglers and economic refugees during the Ocean Viking debacle and every boatload since! Illegal arrivals may get a temporary protection visa which bans them from Australian citizenship or bringing in family members left behind and barred from entering Australia again till their debt to the Commonwealth for the costs incurred by Australian Taxpayers for the provision of prompt pickup services, accommodation, education, health, legal and other services has been cleared.

      Reply

    • Muzz says:

      03:56pm | 09/05/11

      There is no conviction in Gillard what so ever. She thinks Abbotts getting votes for being tough on boat people so she joins him. (she doens’t realise it’s HER the voters are turning off to) Only difference is her solutiion is nastier and not permanent. 800 and then what? It’s not a policy it’s a band-aid, and a non stick one at that.

      Reply

    • Against the Man says:

      04:28pm | 09/05/11

      Gilltard is not qualified to be in politics, the woman can’t get anything right. I keep saying if she and her cronies are doing a good job than it shouldn’t be hard to list their achievements. Sadly listing their failures just shows what a waste we had in having them in government…..........

    • CD says:

      04:00pm | 09/05/11

      I have no problems with geniune refugees and hate seeing some honest people trotted out at media time to show us how truly bad some have it compared to what is proposed as bad conditions here.  Some refugees really do have it lousy esp when they are the ones doing the honest thing and waiting their turn in some hellhole.

      BTW Mal who cares about a few who burn buildings and toss bricks at those trying to save them from fires huh? So how many terrorists does it take to blow up a building? One. Funny that.

      But Malaysia is a country known for bribery and corruption so I worry just who they decide are the good ones to send our way. 

      What checks and balances are really done and will the truly worthwhile at the front of the queues come here?  If I was Malaysia I’d be wanting to get rid of the riffraff under any guise first and with Julia at the helm I have major concerns.

      Reply

    • nossy says:

      04:07pm | 09/05/11

      Poor Tony Abbott only has one thing ion his mind - ooops sorry two if you count the word “NO” - the other being “STOP THE BOATS” ! God bless this sad little wretch and thank you Australia for not giving this E grader the keys to the Lodge in 2010 !

      Reply

    • Big Dixon says:

      04:30pm | 09/05/11

      nossy - well no one gave the keys to Gillard either and the majority of Australians don’t want her there now. She got in with the help of independents who like Labor and the Greens, will be little more than rubble come the end of the next election.

    • nihonin says:

      04:51pm | 09/05/11

      True nossy, we were lucky we bypassed and E Grader and shot straight to remedial.

    • christine m. says:

      05:28pm | 09/05/11

      Not real fussed on Tony Abbott - but he’s no “sad little wretch” and he’s sure not an E grader.  Ppl are jealous, of course.  Julia would be -  haven’t seen her surfing yet.

    • Nonmus says:

      05:46am | 10/05/11

      It’s always amusing seeing people who are clearly deficient in education, to the extent that they can barely express themselves, denigrating Tony Abbott, a man with more academic prowess than the entire Labor front bench combined, for being stupid. If I were you guys, I’d stick to slinging off at his Speedos, being an area you’re more likely to be familiar with.

    • ifonly says:

      04:26pm | 09/05/11

      If I were the Malaysian government, I’d put 800 on boats now. After all, once the first quota is used Gillard will come back with the same offer again. We could empty the camps in Malaysia in next to no time.

      Reply

    • Malaysian says:

      05:17pm | 09/05/11

      ifonly, if you have any knowledge of the geography of the SE Asia, Malaysia is too far away to ship people from her ports to Australia direct. If you have more understanding where those ‘refugees’ are coming from instead of being sarcastic and trying to be smart, you will know that those people are boarding their boats from Indonesia. The Malaysian Government does not operate in a way as simple minded like you.

    • loxy says:

      04:30pm | 09/05/11

      Oh gee what a surprise, yet another pro boat people article from the punch. Don’t you guys ever get tired of pushing the same tired and old agenda onto a majority that clearly thinks differently?

      Reply

    • Errol says:

      05:09pm | 09/05/11

      Bring in as many asylum seekers/boat people/illegals as they like as long as they don’t get welfare & housing supplied by my tax dollars I welcome them all.

      Reply

    • Cuppa says:

      06:40pm | 09/05/11

      But they will Errol.They have no intention of working or assimilating.They come from dishonest, failed cultures that see nothing wrong with not contributing.Most of them wont even show Australia the respect of trying to learn our language.The areas they inhabit are now filthy, crime ridden enclaves, eg, Lakemba, Bankstown. What do they offer Australia again…?

    • David LD says:

      05:34pm | 09/05/11

      ~For those who’ve come across the seas
      We’ve boundless plains to share,
      With courage let us all combine
      To advance Australia fair.~

      Shame on all of you who support this inhumane and, as noted above, Un-Australian approach to processing refugees.

      Reply

    • christine m. says:

      06:33pm | 09/05/11

      Uh oh - Here comes the shaming - Well I accept the shame heaped on me.  (Please bury the word unAustralian - it’s too silly)

    • AL says:

      05:44pm | 09/05/11

      It is in fact quite innovative to put boat people back into the queue. As we understand, most refugees are from south Asian subcontinent and their first steps to to reach Malaysia legally. Then they will travel to Indonesia (legally or illegally) and wait for their chances. Malaysia is like a starting point for their dangerous journey of refugeeship. To put queue jumper back to the starting point is a clever move so that they will be back into the line if they have not already done so.

      Another way to solve the boat people problem is use the “Hong Kong Model” after the Vietnam war,  which is basically putting economic refugee (as oppose to political) in camps with basic facilities. A lot of those refugees travelled to Thailand or China and then to Hong Kong by boat. They are encourage to return to the country of origin (at that point in time Vietnam). If they elect to go, they will be provided with all travelling expenses. If they did not volunteer to return, then they can stay in the camp waiting for other country to take them in. Those people were not allowed to leave camp or to work. Given the basic and spartan nature of the facilities, those camps were empty can be closed after a few short years.

      However, Australia may not like the idea in particular the word “camp” and the Australia basic facilities are well above the standard of other refugee handling countries and some pollies in Australia may say there are humanity concerns.

      Reply

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      06:03pm | 09/05/11

      “They are not a problem in any of those areas. In numbers alone, Australians should look to the 25,000 North African boat people who recently have landed on the Italian island of Lampedusa, the southern-most point of Europe.”

      This is true except for “They are not a problem in any of those areas” statement.  Illegal immigration, AKA asylum seeking, is a huge problem in Europe, Canada and the USA.  You only have to read any EU news website and measure the number of lines on the subject to realise what a mammoth issue this is in Europe, and could be a threat to the EU itself.  The importance of the issue in USA should not be underestimated.

      We are going through a period now where western governments are getting voted out (Canada, UK etc) with immigration being an issue.  Last year the French expelled hundreds of Roma, it says, settled in the country illegally in what was said to be a political manoeuvre by Sarkozy to raise his popularity, and it did.  His government was/is currently stopping trains from Italy carrying Tunisian immigrants fleeing political unrest.

      The ALP now, and Libs before, realise that the normal (remember them:  Not right, left or green) Australian people have to be confident that their government is in control of who enters Australia and will respond negatively at the ballot box if they are not, no matter how many UN Resolutions there are or how loud the professional refugee advocates or Bob Brown protests are.

      Reply

    • christine m. says:

      06:58pm | 09/05/11

      “..the normal Australian people have to be confident that their government is in control of who enters Australia..” . Exactly. Case rests.

    • Kate says:

      07:53pm | 09/05/11

      Glad somebody pointed out the fallacy of the “they are not a problem” argument!

    • Gratuitous Adviser says:

      11:26pm | 09/05/11

      The Liberal Party caucus and secretariat must be having nightmares at the moment.  Why is it that the planets can not line up for them?  Here they have a Labor Government that has basically turned the electorate off with no one listening to them, no matter what they do.  What ever happened to the ALP 2010 Federal Election Review, anyway?  A drover’s dog could win an election for the Libs any day, any time, but they are stuck with Tony Abbott.  Ironically, he is the one that is leading the cause of Labor’s defeat but, unfortunately for him, he is “him”. 
      As a backup, the Libs have poor Joe and his smirk (please someone, talk to him about this) as next in the queue, but he has got “buckleys” unless there is a metamorphosis.
      What can they do?  I say, resurrect Malcolm, but that is about as possible as Julia employing John Howard to replace Andrew Metcalfe, as Secretary to the Immigration and Ethnic affairs Dept.  I find it ironic that Tony Abbott is the person that is keeping the Labor Party in with a chance at the next election.

    • RB says:

      06:32pm | 09/05/11

      They say we are taking 14000 a year.I would like to know how many the final figure is after they are re united(at Australias expense) with their twenty wives, kids & relatives?Chances are these extras will jump on the HMAS welfare also.How much is this costing us for these illegal grubs?They contribute absolutly nothing to this country & we owe them nothing.Their are Australian families in QLD who are living in tents(after the floods) & are hardly getting by but this useless government treats illegal welfare shoppers better.Gillard wants to cut 400 million from medical research but still has plenty to pay for the welfare of ungrateful illegal immigrants & their needs.Every dollar wated on these country shoppers is one more dollar that didnt go to an Australian in need.Its sickening.

      Reply

    • sam says:

      06:54pm | 09/05/11

      boat people are not asylum seekers they are cashed up queue jumpers .

      Reply

    • Batta says:

      06:54pm | 09/05/11

      Having been to Christmas Island, Nauru and PNG with these people in the past I can quite confidently state that they ar NOT refugees, they are simply illegal economic immigrants. If you want to see what a refugee is, travel to any number of the camps in Africa, they don’t have the money to pay a smuggler.
      Why does an islamic “refugee” travel past 10 countries, including several islamic, then pay$10 000 to get on a boat to come here from Indonesia. Quite simple really, our welfare system cannot be beaten.

      Reply

    • michael j says:

      09:38pm | 09/05/11

      @Batta-Thank-you a person with common sense,I was saying a similar thing 6 months ago,

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:33am | 10/05/11

      You cannot quite confidently state any such thing, you did not go to any of those places with refugees unless you were a prison guard.

      The fact is that they are all refugees when they leave their homes not when they arrive here.

      The fact that of the 4,300 Afghans those found ‘not to be refugees’ have now come down to about 10 shows how stupid the nonsense being peddled is.

      In Malaysia we claim we are bringing one thousand people here, last year we already brought 360 of the 1059 applicants here.  Most Bumese don’t want to leave because they have family in the region so those that apply are Sri Lankans, Afghan, Iraqis and Iranians and the wait for our process is a year.  that is after the UNHCR take as long as 5-10 years to get around to cases

      We will not accept anyone who is not an enhancement to us or has no family here.

      Now people fly here from all over the world under false pretences and then thousands make bogus claims but we never abuse them.

      Why we accept refugees from Malaysia is because it is not safe so why on god’s earth would we send Afghans who have had a lifetime of war to that sort of hell?

    • Bob says:

      02:04pm | 10/05/11

      >>The fact is that they are all refugees when they leave their homes not when they arrive here.<<

      Yep. They stop being refugees the moment they reach a safe country. Coming from a crappy country isn’t the same as having a blank passport that you can fill in according to your own desires.

      >>The fact that of the 4,300 Afghans those found ‘not to be refugees’ have now come down to about 10 shows how stupid the nonsense being peddled is.<<
      It shows how lax our definition of refugee is.

      >>Iraqis and Iranians and the wait for our process is a year.  that is after the UNHCR take as long as 5-10 years to get around to cases<<
      And each boat person pushes those who have done things properly back. Why should those who are doing things legally be penalised by those who refuse to?

      >>We will not accept anyone who is not an enhancement to us or has no family here.<<
      ‘nor should we. The difference between heaven and hell is the people.

      The only way to ensure that this place remains a comparative heaven is by ensuring that those who would turn it into a hell don’t come here.

      >>Now people fly here from all over the world under false pretences and then thousands make bogus claims but we never abuse them.<<

      We’re quite happy to deport them if they’re not eligible. A highly educated friend of mine is facing this at the moment. If what you said was true, she wouldn’t have a problem.

      >>Why we accept refugees from Malaysia is because it is not safe so why on god’s earth would we send Afghans who have had a lifetime of war to that sort of hell? <<

      Nowhere is completely safe, and Malaysia is well within acceptable.
      If your acceptable definition of safe is “As safe as Australia” then there’s a few billion people living within range of us that would love to come here on that weak pretext.

      Look at the world.
      Look at how many crappy-yet-not-refugee-worthy countries there are.
      Look at the populations of those countries.
      Look at the population of our country.
      Do the math.

    • TCB 24 X 7 says:

      07:34pm | 09/05/11

      Dont bring the libs into this Sham.
      The labor party under gillard should be known as the LABRADOR PARTY as all their policies are surely a DOGS BREAKFEAST.
      Unbelievable they are into Human Trading now.
                          Back to the days of slave trade   ay,
                      Stay tuned for the next Dogs Breakfeast

      Reply

    • Larisa says:

      07:38pm | 09/05/11

      When you think this government can’t get any worth, they manage to do it. Gillard is finished. Al labor voters don’t trust and don’t respect her and all liberal voters just despise her.

      Reply

    • Eddie says:

      07:49pm | 09/05/11

      Once again the media misses the point when it comes to illiegal immigrants.  I think most people understand that the actual numbers are not great.  However the point is the means by which these people wish to enter our country.  We are a country that welcome refugees fleeing war or persecution however economic refugees we do not welcome.  Why not?  Because so many of us are exactly that but we did it the hard way, we paid our dues.  So why should that change now?  The point is it shouldn’t so we oppose it.  Simple as that.  If this issue were as small as you say it is Malcolm then it wouldn’t be an issue now would it?

      Reply

    • Rosie says:

      12:47am | 10/05/11

      Haven’t you read the agreement? The refugees coming here from Malaysia are the very refugees you’re pretending to welcome.

    • JB says:

      11:30pm | 09/05/11

      What value do you put on a human life? Is it the sum of their economic worth? The amount of smiles they put on their friends faces?
      50 people lost their lives 9 days short of Christmas last year.
      1)  If a Pacific Solution policy - which saw only THREE boat arrivals over the four years before it was rescinded - was still adopted by the Australian Government today, then people would not be risking their lives to seek refuge in Australia. These people would not be jumping on leaking boats, stringed together at the lowest expense, to maximise the profits of their boat masters. Deductive reasoning thus dictates that these people would also not face the prospect of dying on these vessels, as those 50 poor people faced nine days short of Christmas last year.
      2)  It is Governments policy to only allow a certain number of refugees into Australia each year. So in fact these illegal asylum seekers are taking the place of those who either cannot afford to join an illegal vessel or would not risk themselves or their children’s lives through such a journey.
      How can this Minority Government stake any claim to a moral high-ground in this reprehensible asylum policy? How many lives does it take for Gillard to say, “We got it wrong, sorry”?

      Reply

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      02:35am | 10/05/11

      Eddie, there is simply no such thing as an economic refugee.  A refugee under the law is a person with a well founded fear of persecution who cannot go home.

      What has that got to do with money?

      Reply

    • Daniel says:

      08:13am | 10/05/11

      Under Howard Australia has certainly become the most un compassionate country on earth hasn’t it? This ridiculous saga just keeps going on and on. Piers would be salivating over this but he has gone sailing to California.

      Reply

    • Erick says:

      10:53am | 10/05/11

      Yes Daniel, I can’t wait for the Howard government to be kicked out, so a compassionate Labor government can take over.

    • Bob says:

      02:08pm | 10/05/11

      Daniel: I’m guessing you’ve never travelled outside of Australia.

      You’ve got no idea, and only make yourself and your beliefs look ridiculous by your ridiculous exaggerations.

      That, and your apparently complete ignorance of Australian politics over the last three and a half years.

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      10:44am | 10/05/11

      Jonno 05:30pm | 09/05/11 Yours is probably the only rational compassionate comment.
      What I can’t understand is why every rational reform in Australia becomes a political issue and brings out the worst in Australians?
      That Howard stopped the boats is logically a non-sequator - Howard’s policy “may” have stopped the boats but it cannot be proven. People taking to boats is as a result of their personal situation not because Australia is a soft or hard touch. We are using the same approach to “boat people” as the war on drugs. Stopping the supply of drugs only raises the price not the demand - to stop drug use stop demand. In the boat people situation increasing the price will not stop the supply. The solution applied to boat people now is the same as the US used for rendition for torture - We can’t torture, so send the people to a place where they can, we don’t want to adhere to the Geneva convention and US law keep them off US soil. Bad policy, inhumane, lacks compassion feeds the rednecks.
      The Boat people are no less legitimate refugees than any other and comprise less than 2% of asylum seekers. And they do not take the place of any one for crying aloud - that is a political Furphy - a 90 second grad reason for an abstract and very complicated complex situation.
      Whenever Australian policy reform become a inane political football it diminishes Australia and Australians.
      “Economic refugees” don’t spend their last few quid on a toredo infested boat with a shonky engine, that no self respecting fisherman would take to sea. Economic refugees come in Riviera 65s or Qantas first class.
      The other is the Furphy of papers - most of them don’t have papers birth certificates, citizenship papers, pass ports - How many Austrlaians have them at hand this very minute - At $200 a pop you only get one to travel not to keep as a keep sake. If a boat person can get a passport and travel documents then they come by ‘plane, its cheaper than the 10 grand touted as for people smugglers. If a refugee has “papers” and the where with all to pay a smuggler he can come by ‘plane.
      Apply a little logic folks.

      Reply

    • marley says:

      01:54pm | 10/05/11

      @Dieter - while I agree with some of your points, I have to disagree with the comment that “‘economic refugees’” don’t spend their last few quid on a toredo infested boat with a shonky engine…”

      Did you know that the boat movement across the Mediterranean is in large part a movement of economic migrants who are doing precisely that?  If you don’t believe me, believe the UNHCR. Go have a look at their papers on “mixed movements.”  You’ll find that one of the most difficult things about large influxes of migrants is sorting out the genuine refugee from the economic migrant because, yes indeed, they all travel the same way.

    • Phil says:

      11:09am | 10/05/11

      I honestly can’t believe how un-educated some people are. Most people that come here are found to be refugees. Even if ONE of the people who has been rejected asylum has since been murdered, I would find it very hard to live with myself for supporting such a disgusting “policy”. Unfortunately we have sent many people to their deaths. We are spending so much money on locking people up and denying BASIC human dignity to people that we could be using for many other areas. Many other countries have community supervision for asylum seekers and asylum seekers contribute to the community. It works.
      Australia is looked down upon for our human rights record. I cannot be proud of this.

      Reply

    • Bob says:

      02:12pm | 10/05/11

      >>Most people that come here are found to be refugees. Even if ONE of the people who has been rejected asylum has since been murdered, I would find it very hard to live with myself for supporting such a disgusting “policy”.<<

      Firstly, that just shows that the selection criteria is BS. Considering how many safe countries they’ve passed.

      Secondly, what would you say about one Australian being murdered by a criminal pretending to be a refugee that wasn’t properly checked out before being let in (y’know, due to the destroyed passport)? Could you live with that?

      >>Australia is looked down upon for our human rights record. I cannot be proud of this. <<

      By either people who have never actually been to a crappy country and have no idea of what the world outside is like, or people from crappy countries trying to deflect attention from their own countries.

      Reply

    • Phil says:

      02:54pm | 10/05/11

      “Considering how many safe countries they’ve passed.”

      How many have signed the UN convention on refugees? If you think that the selection criteria is BS, I’m assuming that you agree that we should let more people in, rather then send them to their death?

      “what would you say about one Australian being murdered by a criminal pretending to be a refugee that wasn’t properly checked out before being let in”

      I would say I wouldn’t like it. But of course, we have not found any criminals yet, have we? In all the checks, not one. Ah, but we don’t KNOW if they are and we should FEAR the unknown. Yes, I get it now.
      And for the record, there have been many cases of those we have sent back being murdered.

      “By either people who have never actually been to a crappy country and have no idea of what the world outside is like, or people from crappy countries trying to deflect attention from their own countries.”

      By the UN. Frequently.

    • Bob says:

      03:10pm | 10/05/11

      >>How many have signed the UN convention on refugees? <<

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Refugeeconvention.PNG

      Please find me a crap spot somewhere in the world that is closer to Australia than any of the green or yellow on that image.

      Also, that isn’t the only criteria for them stopping being refugees.

      >>If you think that the selection criteria is BS, I’m assuming that you agree that we should let more people in, rather then send them to their death? <<

      Ignoring your overdramatisation (Indonesia, for example, sucks but it’s not that bad), you’d be wrong.

      >>I would say I wouldn’t like it. But of course, we have not found any criminals yet, have we? In all the checks, not one. Ah, but we don’t KNOW if they are and we should FEAR the unknown. Yes, I get it now.<<

      You don’t think you should fear someone who goes to effort to make himself unknown? Have you ever travelled to another country? Try doing it with as little information as they’re willing to offer.

      >>And for the record, there have been many cases of those we have sent back being murdered. <<
      Probably are. Murders happen.

      >>By the UN. Frequently. <<

      You’re aware that the UN isn’t a single blameless nation, but is rather a collection of nations, each representing its own interests? Including many very messed up nations. I don’t think you are, otherwise you wouldn’t have made such a silly argument.

      Reply

    • Phil says:

      09:58am | 11/05/11

      “Probably are. Murders happen.”
      After coming up with many points (Australia creates false passports to get rid of asylum seekers; UN is of course not one nation, its a whole bunch of nations and that is the point, its a representation of the world who condemn Australia; we are breaking the law through our actions as they are legally coming to Australia and we are detaining them in conditions worse then prisons, (children in adult detention, you agree with that?); the idea that we should all leave in fear because someone is from somewhere else; that the refugee convention was basically started because the world tuned its collective back on the Jews in Europe and it was agreed that we should never let that happen again; I have realised that this quote from you sums it up. You don’t care if people are murdered for being who they are, where they are. If it was an Aussie, you’d have me up in arms, but to others, well they “happen”. I just cannot fathom people like you, how messed up your view on life is that some people are worth more than others. I believe that every human is equal. Quite obviously, you disagree. Murder is always wrong.

    • Dark Horse says:

      08:08pm | 10/05/11

      While our young men die, we accept young men from Afghanistan as refugees. I can see something wrong with that. Why aren’t we fighting Islam at home?

      Reply

    • kris parent in phoenix love hispanics, despise lib says:

      03:51pm | 17/05/11

      Are U guys getting the same speech too about refugees and immigrants….here in Arizona we here give me your tired and poor speech from crazy people too….they turn it all around and take the entire Constitution to INCLUDE pretty much anything incl the Earth…. seems to be a bigger Eugenics or Marxisism or a fluke, WE ARE DIVERSE ENOUGH and POOR ENOUGH here in the USA….how bout we stop taking this crap!!!!

      Reply
 
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