In one of the songs on his famous Graceland album Paul Simon uses the tongue-in-cheek line “why don’t we get together and call ourselves an institute?”. The anti-alcohol lobby is obviously a big fan because it appears to be using this as the basis for its PR strategy.

Dammit woman, stop drinking yourself to oblivion. Actually, fetch a glass for us. Photo: Thinkstock

Any time members get together to peddle their message they call it a summit or a forum or something similar that will offer the media promise of serious discussion and new ideas. There have been three such events quite recently.

On September 6 they held a “panel discussion” (comprising a group of people who share their views) to add gravitas to a media conference calling for changes to wine tax.

Three weeks later they dramatically held their own “alcohol tax forum” to call for changes to wine tax and protest about not being invited to the Government’s own tax forum.

And just last week a “forum” considered plans to increase the minimum price of alcohol and, as The Age reported it, discussed “ways of building on the momentum of last month’s tax summit”.

They may have held a summit to discuss the implications of a new study by the US Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirming that moderate alcohol consumption is one of four healthy lifestyle behaviours that help people live longer (along with exercise, a healthy diet and never having smoked), but if so I missed the publicity and resulting coverage. But I digress.

The common link is that all three events lacked any new ideas and the interviews again fell back on clichés and claims that, to quote a more-famous song, “ain’t necessarily so”.

We are constantly told, for example, that the social cost of alcohol is $36 billion a year. Says who? Says one report released by the (now) Foundation for Alcohol Research & Education. And who says not? Access Economics for one; the economic consultants dismissed the figure as grossly overstated and based on flawed research that “should have no part in informing health policy”.

Some in the lobby prefer to quote the figure of $15 billion generated by researchers Collins & Lapsley. However, economists subsequently concluded that the economic method used to calculate that figure was “meaningless” and the Henry Review expressed doubts about the methodology.

So neither figure is a fact, but through constant repetition they are becoming accepted (if contradictory) wisdom.

We also constantly hear the emotive claim that wine is cheaper than water. That depends on whether you are interested in valid comparisons. The cheapest wine – four-litre casks sold at discount liquor outlets – is cheaper per litre than some bottled water, depending on where you buy it, and is certainly cheaper than winemakers would like. But it’s not close to the cheapest water – you can get casks in supermarkets that work out at 40c a litre.

Publicity for the most recent “forum” added a new exaggeration to the mix with a claim that it takes “1000 to 1200” litres of irrigated water to produce one litre of wine. No it doesn’t. The reality is barely a third of that.

Such is the nature of this relentless campaign. Figures are bandied about without foundation and often the research quoted is not relevant to the claims in the headline. The Alcohol Policy Coalition recently called for higher alcohol taxes on the basis of a report “challenging the commonly-held belief that red wine is beneficial for preventing cardiovascular disease”. The logic escapes me.

In this case the attempt was doubly flawed as academic reviewers dismissed the research itself as “biased and unscientific”.

One reviewer noted: “It is shocking that an alliance of organizations, some of which are government agencies, would agree to stand behind such a deliberately misleading misrepresentation of the science addressing the effect of alcohol consumption on human health.”

More commonly, the anti-alcohol lobby is guilty of highlighting studies that support its views but dismissing as “industry spin” valid research that doesn’t. There is no better example than its vigour in highlighting acknowledged links between alcohol and the increased risk of some cancers, while denying research that shows potential cardiovascular benefits in moderate consumption. WFA’s response to all this is three-fold:

  • We reject out of hand the implication that alcohol is the new smoking and must be treated as such, and the suggestion that alcohol producers have no role to play in attempting to address problems related to alcohol abuse in Australia.
  • We remain frustrated that millions of dollars of public money are spent on researchers from a variety of disciplines to investigate this social/cultural problem yet the only answers they ever come up with are around price and restrictions. As a society we devote significant resources to addressing obesity through education rather than simply making unhealthy food more expensive, but we seem incapable of taking a similar approach with alcohol.
  • We have seen no evidence that higher prices, by whatever means, are the answer to alcohol abuse, so cannot accept any response that would hurt wine producers and the vast majority of consumers who enjoy wine in moderation without delivering the required social benefits.

There will always be a small minority of people who abuse alcohol no matter what they know, just as there will be some who vehemently oppose its very existence.

The vast majority will continue to make their own choices based on what science tells them and what’s important to them.

As we learn more about alcohol’s health impacts, let’s honestly and openly pass all of those findings on to adult Australians and let them make their decisions.

Most commented

79 comments

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    • Jesse says:

      10:18am | 31/05/12

      Make sure you state that its a cash bar on the invitations. Then make sure the rreaaustnt, its manager and your waitress know that all drinks outside of coffee, tea, water and soda which are standard are purchased away from the table and at a free standing bar, where tabs are not permitted. If the rreaaustnt tries to be difficult, just mention that you don’t want to be held responsible if someone brings an underage guest and they consume alcohol on their premises. They should be more accommodating and won’t realize that your more focused on controlling your bill total than anything else.

    • wayne says:

      08:06pm | 21/11/11

      “the anti-alcohol lobby is guilty of highlighting studies that support its views but dismissing as “industry spin” valid research that doesn’t.”

      Replace “anti-alcohol” with any other topic (for or against), and you could be talking about any public debate.

    • Chris says:

      09:23pm | 03/11/11

      Comparing the cost of water and wine? I mean, Jesus Christ!
      Seriously though, whatever the relative cost, people are supposed to drink 8 glasses of water a day (I read somewhere); plus, we wash ourselves, our clothes and our cars with it, cook with it, and water the garden, and nearly all this is fresh water out of the tap. Tap water is far cheaper than the cheapest goon in the most disgusting, discounted cask.

    • Alf says:

      04:55pm | 03/11/11

      Without alchohol, a whole lot of ugly chicks will never get laid.

    • Mick Litoris says:

      01:50pm | 03/11/11

      Having lived in Norway where the wowsers run the show and alcohol is very highly taxed ($90-$100 for a case of beer) and liquor stores are treated like porn shops (restricted premises, no window advertising etc) - people still drink - often in large qty.  Home brew (including beer, wine and spirits) is common and people go over the top binge drinking and getting totally ripped.  I also lived in France and Italy - cheap alcohol and drinking is part of daily life (beer $10 a case a good red wine $5 btl) and rarely did I see the issue of drinking to excess (walk through Paris at midnight and you will not see crowds of drunken idiots).  Even in the US where a btl of vodka is $15 it is rare to see public drunkeness.  Don’t tax or add extra legislation and restriction - just lock up the idiots who fight and vandalise when they (clearly) can’t handle booze. Crack down on the 2% of wankers and leave the other 98% to make their own adult decisions to drink and live life responsibly as we choose.

    • HappyCynic says:

      03:40pm | 03/11/11

      Ah but you can’t do that, that’s logical, sane, well-thought out and rational!!

      Seriously all these bloody wankers and lobbyists and their whinging are accomplishing is a how-to guide on creating a whingier Australia and we’re whiny enough as it is.

    • Greg says:

      12:42pm | 03/11/11

      How these mercenaries spend their leisure time is not the issue, it’s how theye generate their 6 figure incomes that is the issue. These people have fought the war on tobacco and now it is largely won. They have no job if they don’t find another war.
      The concept that alcohol abuse is restricted to lower socio-economic groups is typical of their elitists views.

    • Garth says:

      02:48pm | 03/11/11

      Someone on Twitter recently spoke about his first hand experience in a prominent cancer charity of viewing the funding driven urgency to find the ‘next’ tobacco.

    • Jimmy O says:

      12:16pm | 03/11/11

      What disappoints me most about this “debate”, is that there is no debate. 

      Yes, I am on “the wine side”, but far too many statements coming out under the auspices of the “Alcohol Policy Coalition”* are pure polemic - as if the goal of public health somehow justifies less rigour when it comes to economic research and consideration of opposing (or even different) views.

      It is fortunate for the wine industry that the APC’s prohibition-like “just one glass of alcohol causes damage” message is so end-of-the-spectrum that the general populace dismiss it.  But it is unfortunate for society that their tunnel vision distracts from what should be the focus of everyone concerned with this issue - addressing our ingrained cultural acceptance (and even promotion, especially in sports-related areas) of excessive alcohol consumption and the problems which flow from that, and developing and implementing educational programs to overcome this.

      * Should probably come out and name themselves “Anti Alcohol Policy Coalition”.

    • Peter says:

      12:09pm | 03/11/11

      Anyone who titles their comment “anti-booze narks are whining themselves to death” has just lost a whole lot of credibility from the get go.  Reading the article, it seems it is you who is doing the whining, by the sounds of it.  And quite ironic that you are yelling “bias” when hey ho you are obviously financially invested in the wine industry up to the hilt.  No conflict/bias there!

    • Average Joe says:

      11:41am | 03/11/11

      Raising alcohol prices for our “own good” is an assault on working class pleasures, pure and simple.

      Sadly, not all of us can afford to regularly holiday in Europe, take a pleasure cruise on our yacht or go for a drive in our new beamer. After slogging for 40 (or more) hours a week at minimum wage, some people enjoy a few beers (or glasses of red, or whatever) with mates to unwind.

      While I cannot deny that some people do drink irresponsibly, causing harm to themselves (or sometimes others), that doesn’t meant you should try to regulate alcohol through prohibition or excessive, punitive taxes. As the article above rightly says, education in responsible use of alcohol is the answer.

      I’d be interested to see the social/economic background of these “expert” panels of wowsers, and how they spend their leisure time. I’m guessing it would be an indicator of just how out of touch with the average Aussie these people are.

    • Steve says:

      02:00pm | 03/11/11

      @Shane from Melbourne

      The government campaigns against drink driving have been very successful.  Rates of DD have dropped hugely since the 70’s and there is a huge cultural shift . 

      Might just have something to do with the advertising and - more importantly - all the enforcement of the law by RBT.

      If individuals don’t care about the consequences of their own behaviour, how can any industry care more or do more?  You are just looking for a scapegoat.

    • Average Joe says:

      01:26pm | 03/11/11

      I think you might be surprised how big a difference the ongoing public awareness campaign about the dangers of abusing alcohol actually has made.

      I’m not advocating a major increase in awareness spending, I am simply against punitive tax hikes as some sort of imagined solution to the drinking “problem”.

      Let people take some personal responsibility, too. If your drinking is harming yourself or others, you can’t simply blame the booze.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      12:53pm | 03/11/11

      Education?? We have had advertising campaigns on drink driving for decades. We have advertising on the effects of alcohol fueled violence for years. The federal and state government spends millions of dollars of advertising and it does not make a damns worth of difference. We have restrictions such as licencing and responsible serving of alcohol certification and it does not make a damns worth of difference. I’d much rather have the WFA come out and admit that the alcohol industry is based on greed and that they don’t give a shit about the consequences. At least they would be honest about it.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:27am | 03/11/11

      I’m in favor of the WFA’s approach to alcohol restrictions- as long as they pick up the tab for the burgeoning numbers of kidney and liver transplants, the lifetime impairment caused by drink driving, the cost of policing intoxicated aggressive behaviour etc. A tax on alcohol doesn’t even begin to cover the financial cost to society picked up by the long suffering taxpayer. But I guess the effects of overconsumption of alcohol can be classed as a externality that the WFA does not have to worry about.

    • Mitch says:

      11:08am | 03/11/11

      Yep. A lot of smokers die and are in hospitals but we don’t get into many fights. Well, except with non smokers, but that’s just verbal and it always them (non smokers) that start it.

    • Susan says:

      10:12am | 03/11/11

      Spoilsports - cannot have a drink any more, cannot smoke anymore, How can these people who believe themselves better than the rest of us ordinary folk look down on us and dictate our lives.  First you read that one drink a day is good for you, now they say it’s not.  I think we should ignore them all and enjoy whatever life you have.

    • Babe in the Woods says:

      10:12am | 03/11/11

      When I was in Japan a few years back, there were vending machines on the street that sold beer or mixed scotch drinks.  Very nice.  This was in a city called Kure.  I didn’t notice too much drunkeness or people throwing up around the macines.  Maybe it is in the way we are brought up?  Whatever.  I am very sick of all the groups and lobbies telling me what I can or can’t do and howling with outrage when people do not agree with them.  I know, not making much sense here.  Probably because my normal calm is replaced by anger at these wowsers and fun police who not only seek to impose their values on me, but blatantly lie and distort the facts to suit.  And all the while they sit there in smug superiority. Grrrrrrr

    • morrgo says:

      08:52am | 03/11/11

      Some sections of society would certainly benefit from drinking smaller amounts of better-quality wine.  This is an elusive target, though.

      Handling alcohol requires a proper cultural milieu.  Jews are given small amounts of wine with a large dose of cultural context from small childhood.  AFAIK alcoholism is not rampant among Jews.  Southern Europeans drink with food (rather than before eating, the traditional Aussie way) from an early age: although there is alcoholism, general population health statistics do not seem to be skewed by foetal alcohol syndrome.

      While increasing the price of cask wine would no doubt reduce its consumption by the down-and-out, it is unlikely to increase demand for broccoli by the same demographic.  Pot, maybe.

    • reddragon says:

      09:23am | 03/11/11

      @morrgo. And failing pot there’s the even easier course of gold tops and blue meanies. Saw some gold tops growing on the nature strip outside my home at Stanmore (that’s in SydneyAustralia Frau Smith). I always associated them with Northern NSW, dairy farms and humid summers, Maybe they are moving south with the cane toads.

    • Markus says:

      08:38am | 03/11/11

      ‘Some in the lobby prefer to quote the figure of $15 billion generated by researchers Collins & Lapsley. However, economists subsequently concluded that the economic method used to calculate that figure was “meaningless” and the Henry Review expressed doubts about the methodology.’
      Anyone who actually read those Collins & Lapsley 2005 reports (trust me, most of the people who throw about those figures of the costs of smoking and drinking on society have never seen it) will tell you that the method used to calculate the figures were meaningless.

      Sadly, actually reading something before reporting it seems to be a lost art in modern day journalism.

    • Shane* says:

      08:26am | 03/11/11

      I was reading this article thinking ‘ho-hum, another lobby… they’re as bad as each other really…’ when I read that whe WFA does not believe that higher prices will have an impact. That struck me as strange, since any other product’s overall consumption and/or abuse rates are affected by pricing. Since internwebz arguing is typically pointless, I thought I would at least engage this point, since it is able to be proven one way or the other:

      3 minutes on Google later:

      “There is a strong link between alcohol price, consumption and resulting harms. When prices increase, alcohol consumption and harms decrease. This effect is seen in overall consumption as well as in measures of heavy or problem drinking, and in harms to the drinker as well as to others. While there are different price effects across societies, in general, a price increase of 10% reduces consumption by an average of 5%.”

      Sources for the above include Oxford University Research, the World Health Organization, the British Food Journal, Addiction, and the Australian Journal of Agricultural and Resource Economics.

    • Anne71 says:

      12:43pm | 03/11/11

      Anna C - count me in. High time someone took on the Anti-Everything Lobby.  If they get their way, it will soon be mandatory for us all to be in our homes by 9pm, clad in regulation flannellete pyjamas and fluffy slippers, and drinking regulation herbal tea while watching regulation television programmes, which are politically correct and suitably educational.  The Neighbourhood Watch will be recruited to grass up anybody spotted with a cigarette, glass of wine, chocolate bar or hamburger, and those caught will be sent to re-education centres until they learn that Nanny Knows Best.
      Okay, perhaps I exaggerate a bit.  All right, a lot. But I’m not sure if taxing everything perceived to be bad for us is the way to go.  After all, look how expensive cigarettes & tobacco are now, thanks to increased taxes, yet people still buy them. It will be the same with alcohol and “junk” food - taxing those won’t stop people with genuine drinking / overeating problems buying them, but it will unfairly punish those who are able to enjoy one or both in moderation.

    • Borderer says:

      10:56am | 03/11/11

      Working in clubs for a number of years I noticed that as the government got tough on public drunkeness with licencing cost and alcohol price increases all that happened was people got loaded up on booze before going out. At home there is no supervision of consumption and because they wanted to look ‘straight’ when entering the club, they’d pop a couple of pills too. Ever heard the quote “a night on the drugs is cheaper than a night on the booze.”? Do you want your kid downing a stubby of beer or consuming unregulated drugs of questionable quality? See you first teenager go into seizures and flatline, then try doing CPR to restart their heart and see what your opinion is. Alcohol is not the problem it’s a symptom, the problem however is neither taxed or regulated and requires them to do more than a levy here or a charge there. It requires them to invest in judicial and emergency services and actually think about the problem.

    • Shane* says:

      10:39am | 03/11/11

      @fml,

      Hmmm, good point about the cheap cask wine. I still think costlier booze will impact on lower SES groups. In this regard, alcohol is no different from anything else (smokes, junk food, attending the footy, driving a V8) - when the cost to do so rises, the consumption drops.

      @AnnaC and fml,

      I reject your notion of a No More Lobbying lobby. I will lobby furiously, using my lobby, the Lobby of Lobbyless Lobbyers,  to denigrate your lobby.

      Lobby.

    • Markus says:

      10:13am | 03/11/11

      Anna, it sounds great. Reminds me of Jon Stewart’s Rally to Restore Sanity.

      http://www.rallytorestoresanity.com/

      For all of us who think it would be nice to see some changes, but don’t think shouting like an idiot is a productive way to accomplish it.

    • fml says:

      09:30am | 03/11/11

      AnnaC,

      If its a two drink minimum to enter, count me in smile

    • Anna C says:

      09:22am | 03/11/11

      “I was reading this article thinking ‘ho-hum, another lobby.”

      I’m thinking of starting up a No More lobbying lobby.  Anyone care to join me?

    • fml says:

      08:55am | 03/11/11

      I think that would work in countries where the standard of living is low, people would have to make a choice about paying the bills or buying drinks. Obviously there will still be the few who would, to their own detriment, buy booze. But i doubt the effectiveness of that in Australia, We would just go out and buy cheaper booze, When you can get a cask of goon for about $15, there isnt much point, i dont expect to see much effect until the price of a goon bag doubles or even triples. Even then, its really not very hard to produce your own, and when you get amateurs going down that road, thats when you will start to get the health problems.

    • centurion48 says:

      08:21am | 03/11/11

      Well thank heavens the social cost is only $15 billion and not an outrageous $36 billion. The audacity of those scaremongers.
      And, it only requires 300 litres of fresh, potable water to produce ONE litre of wine and not 1,000 litres of water that could otherwise be used to produce food for the seven billion humans on this planet.
      Thank you, Stephen Strachan, for pointing out how socially and environmentally friendly the consumption of alcohol is. I will pass your article on to the medical staff at my local hospital in this city who obviously play poker at night because it is so quiet.

    • Anna C says:

      08:18am | 03/11/11

      No one can deny that excessive alcohol consumption leads to anti-social behaviour, violence/assaults, drink driving, health problems etc. However I don’t support the tax changes that the anti-alcohol lobby is advocating for. I heard on the ABC’s ‘The Drum’ that they want to change the tax rules so that it makes booze more expensive. Don’t lower income people also have a right to a drink occasionally too? Not everyone who is on a low income earner will drink to excess; some people enjoy the occasional drink with their meal for example. Why are they being discriminated against?

      I think that the anti-alcohol lobby need to go back to the drawing board and come up with another solution to this problem.

    • Steve says:

      01:51pm | 03/11/11

      @ Shane

      Some wine would get cheaper, cask wine would get more expensive. 
      The Henry Tax review recommendation has all the details.

    • Shane* says:

      11:40am | 03/11/11

      @Anna C

      Actually the tax they’re proposing is by alcohol volume. So wine will get costlier (hence this rant from th WFA) but most beer will get cheaper.

      They should rename it a Cheap Beer Tax. Proven vote-winner.

    • Tell It Like It Is says:

      10:43am | 03/11/11

      No I don’t either believe in the tax. I do believe in an across the board closing time as petitioned by “last drinks”. Which is very (too, in my estimation) generous anyway. It seems that Australians cannot handle the freedom of alcohol for so many hours every day. Another newspaper published hard, cold well-researched facts over two years ago. The reality is crime escalates as the night goes on and into early morning.

    • Tina says:

      08:50am | 03/11/11

      I had that thought too. Being allowed to drink (or able to afford it) shouldnt be limited to a rich few people. Its not like they will do it any more or less responsibly. I dont think pricing is the ideal approach, but its not like I have a better idea.

    • old fart says:

      08:14am | 03/11/11

      Yes it’s strange, in europe where children are introduced to alcohol earlier they develop a far more mature attitude to it’s usage and the only peole you see over imbibing are young tourists. Mind you, across the channel in the UK and Ireland, they have the same issues as us.  Perhaps it’s an anglo celtic thing.  Apart from that, why is this article doing exactly what it is protesting about and that is driving an agenda

    • marley says:

      11:32am | 03/11/11

      Oooh, I don’t know about that.  Ever seen a group of drunken Finns?  Trust me, they do not have a more mature attitude…

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      07:49am | 03/11/11

      Having just returned from a month in Vietnam and seen the relaxed veiws to alcohol in a foreign country it disheartens me to see this country having a lobby group for everything and others trying to force their veiws and morals onto the rest of society.
      Alcohol can be purchased anywhere in the country and is on display on all street corners, it can be purchsed at any dairy, bakery, restaurant, cafe at any time of the day by anyone, but do they drink then, no but they have nobody telling them what they should be doing.
      I talked to several shop keepers about their laws and asked can they sell to kids, she looked at me like I was an idiot and said why would I do that, it is just stupid kids are to young to drink and on top of that they know not to come and ask as they would get told to piss off, with no law telling them they cant. So why can this society be grown up enough to act like this and we need a new, local, state and federal law enacted every 6 months to cover any possible loophole.
      Also saw no violence whilst there and no behaviour because of drunkeness.
      Funny how they are a communist country and we are a democratic society yet they have far less government intrusiveness in there day to day lives than we do and are a lot freer to go about their business than we appear to be.
      Also how is it you can buy a can of tiger or heineken in Veitnal for 0.40cents a can (wholesale) and we have to remortgage the house to buy a 6 pack.
      Tell the nanby pambies that want to tell you how to live your life to piss off.

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      11:50am | 03/11/11

      technically a communist country..although they are some of the hardest working capitalists Ive ever met.
      Ive read Up country, I didnt say Vietnam was a communist state, but you cant deny they are technically still a communist country.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:37am | 03/11/11

      @ sir ronald: I strongly recommend you go read books like Nelson DeMille’s “Up Country” before suggesting that Vietnam is a communist state.

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      11:07am | 03/11/11

      Tell it like it is…right on that is so true.

      Louisiane Bar on the beach in Nha Trang, our pint size handle 35000 Dong about $1.75, true pint 600ml, 45000 dong about $2.50 and a litre glass, 75000 dong about $3.75 by a pool next to the beach, perfect weather, amazing food and waited on hand a foot…goodtimes, love the place. That was all tourist prices to.
      They may be communists but they work harder are more industrious and friendly and a damn site happy than this country without the overall intrusion of a nanny state dictating to them.

    • Tell It Like It Is says:

      10:40am | 03/11/11

      Sounds like the Vietnamese can handle alcohol better and don’t set out to get pissed and cause trouble and great expense to society and perpetrate violence as here.  Maybe when we grow up we won’t need a “nanny state”. I know you didn’t write the word but that’s ‘where we’re going, isn’t it”. Children need nannies.

    • fml says:

      09:58am | 03/11/11

      Morrgo,

      If you are ever in Perth, go to the James Squires pub on Murray St, Sometimes they have specials, not too long ago they were selling Amber Ale for $7 a pint!, good days :D

    • morrgo says:

      08:57am | 03/11/11

      Never mind the price of Heineken. 

      The price of James Squire IPA is the problem.

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      08:25am | 03/11/11

      People have to feel important so they have to look busy and make laws on every aspect of life.

      Watched a good documentary last night actually, not to do with alcohol but with what you are saying in regards to rules everywhere, it was on the prison systems in the old European communist counrties ( russia, serbia, czech, poland etc ) they have pools, kitchens in cells, no death penalty and no assualts on prison guards, no fights, they have knives in their cells with no stabbings, you go to an American jail with rules galore and its crazy, stabbings, murders, guard bashings.

      I was in Thailand start of the year and I think a longneck of Heineken cost me $3 at a nice restaurant, here its like $5 or $6 for a normal sized one.

    • Mayday says:

      07:28am | 03/11/11

      ” As a society we devote significant resources to addressing obesity through education rather than simply making unhealthy food more expensive” true but over eating will not induce a person to drive a car, bash a family member or take risks that affect everyone around them.

      Alcohol is the new smoking and has been getting away with being a benign social lubricant for years.  In moderation this is true but as other posted have pointed out go out into the club/pub strips around out major cities late at night and you will see that moderation was left at home.

    • gobsmack says:

      06:55am | 03/11/11

      Double standards apply when there is any discussion regarding the legalisation of marijuana.  Statistics are trotted out showing that heavy habitual users suffer from mental and physical problems and, on that basis, society adopts a “zero tolerance” approach.  On the other hand, when the discussion turns to alcohol we are offered such excuses as “there will always be a small minority of people who abuse alcohol” and that most people enjoy “moderate consumption”.
      While the concept that there is such a thing as a “responsible drinker” is readily accepted, when it comes to any discussion of marijuana, the “slippery slope” argument prevails.

    • Dave says:

      10:08am | 03/11/11

      @Tim: The problems would be far less from marijuana, however the problem with legalising it (as far as I can see) is that it would be too readily available, that is to say anyone can grow it and grow plenty of it. While many, probably even most users would continue to partake responsibly, there would be people who would get stoned off their face all day everyday (yes I know people who would do that if their welfare check allowed for it), making it impossible for them to find work or function as a regular member of society.

    • Misanthrope says:

      10:02am | 03/11/11

      You miss the reality of the whole absurd situation.

      The sheep people masses just accept that “illegal” drugs are bad because the government says they are by way of making them illegal. Thanks to this people have grown up into a world where these drugs and their users have a negative stigma attached to them. This, along with the fact that “illegal” drugs are of no profit to the powers that be are the reason excuses are made for alcohol abuse and all manner of negativity is spouted about “illegal” drugs.

      Say we lived in a world where marijuana the alcohol of society and alcohol had the status that marijuana does in reality. Every ignorant, self righteous drone would be sitting at their dinner table giving their kid a puff of their joint whilst lecturing them about how alcohol “is bad and will ruin your life” and how they shouldnt smoke dope until they are grown ups.

      Do prescription meds have the same stigma as “illegal” drugs? Of course they dont. Overdose resulting in death on prescription meds, specifically painkillers have tripled over the last ten years in the US. Over this period they account for more deaths than cocaine and herion combined but because they come from a shop with a stamp of approval from a doctor the sheep people dont see an issue.

    • Brett says:

      09:46am | 03/11/11

      Tim, I’ll bet the drunk falls down first. Dopes kinda weird, it has that built in paranoia thing where, you’re still stoned but you can straighten up and think reasonably clearly if needed, even if a bit slower smile Once your drunk it’s pretty hard to just snap to sobriety.

    • gobsmack says:

      09:21am | 03/11/11

      @Tim
      That depends.  If you are talking about “responsible use” in both cases then I would say the problems for both would be minimal.
      Also, I’m not sure how you would determine what are “equal amounts”.  There is the further difficulty that alcohol and marijuana have different effects on different people.  Marijuana can induce psychosis in some people whereas alcohol causes some people to become violent.

    • Tim says:

      07:40am | 03/11/11

      Do you think if alcohol and marijuana were partaken of in equal amounts that the problems would be equal from each?

    • Steve says:

      06:53am | 03/11/11

      Sorry Stephen, any claim by any health-related NGO will always get a run in the media because journalists are terrible with science and numbers - that’s why they are journalists.

      These stories are simply too good and newsy to apply any questioning or critical thinking to, so long as some Dr from an obscure university puts a name to it, it’s good enough for publication.

      And alcohol is the new tobacco - the public health industry needs a new cash cow hate substance now that the funding for tobacco control lobbying and research is fading away.

    • Steve says:

      01:46pm | 03/11/11

      @Tell it like it is

      No one doubts there are costs from alcohol abuse.

      But the article was about the tactics and basic honesty of the anti-alcohol groups.  My point was that these groups have to struggle for media attention and government funding against competing NGOs and diseases, so they create easy to print beat-ups for the uncritcial MSM to run.

      Not sure what you’re objecting to.

    • Tell It Like It Is says:

      10:37am | 03/11/11

      You doubt the health and social services costs and police and all other costs related to alcohol in excess, Steve?

    • Tina says:

      06:38am | 03/11/11

      Thank you. How about those people stop lobbying, get a life and let everyone make their own decisions on how they want to live their lives?

    • Damian says:

      11:46am | 03/11/11

      His background is in his Bio…

    • Nathan says:

      10:17am | 03/11/11

      Tina

      Fair point, I just find it hard to trust people who write a piece like this and don’t disclose their background when theirs a obvious conflict of interest

    • Tina says:

      08:28am | 03/11/11

      I am not fuzzed with where the author comes from. Like with the pokies yesterday I generally support a less restricted approach. Maybe because I have been brought up in a more easy going environment with less governmental intervention in these matters.

    • Nathan says:

      07:09am | 03/11/11

      The author is the Winemakers Federation chief executive and lobbying is what he is doing here and what he regularly does. What is good for the goose

    • Nathan says:

      06:22am | 03/11/11

      Well i wouldn’t only be taking Access Economics word that the models are wrong, although likely that they are access economics does not have the greatest track record despite what they tell you.

      Have a walk down George St at 1am on wards and then tell me its a small problem with a few people. This same website has attacked the pokie problem and are happy to use what ever numbers you are given. Although not agreeing with this lobby group why attack them and not have a dig at the hotel groups that have so much political sway its ridiculous they love throwing crappy numbers around.

      “The vast majority will continue to make their own choices based on what science tells them and what’s important to them” yeah a bunch of pissed up 20 somethings are going to do this give me a break. You give people way to much credit.

    • Tell It Like It Is says:

      10:35am | 03/11/11

      Couldn’t agree more, Nathan, except that sadly they’re not all in their 20’s.  People miss the point about alcohol just as they are focusing on George St., Sydney. Okay, try Darlinghurst Rd, Kings Cross if you really want an eye/nose/ear - all senses in fact! -ful. Or The Rocks. But I am sure Adelaide and Parramatta have ‘George St’. It is a national problem. Why the bias towards gambling which goes hand in hand with smoking by the way. Alcohol causes as much or more social, psychological, work loss, drain on health and emergency services. Is that really where our tax money should go just to keep supporting politicians via the Australian Hotels Association?

    • Nathan says:

      10:14am | 03/11/11

      Gran you had to Look it up or get help about it…....deal with it. It was a comment that I did not think to say what city nothing more and not an arrogant sydneysider.

    • Fran Smith says:

      08:54am | 03/11/11

      Aah, maybe Nathan should have mentioned that rather than assuming that every Punch reader lives in Sydney.

      I actually googled ‘George St’ after my initial post and found that there are George Streets in every capital city.

    • old fart says:

      08:08am | 03/11/11

      Sydney or Parramatta

    • reddragon says:

      07:54am | 03/11/11

      Frau Smith, George Street is the main Street in Australia’s largest City: Smog City AKA Sydney

    • Fran Smith says:

      06:53am | 03/11/11

      What city is George St in cos I’ve never heard of it.

    • onlooker says:

      05:52am | 03/11/11

      Alcohol has been around for thousand of years, they drank wine in biblical times and probably for thousands of years before that. Each generation will have some who abuse alcohol, it seems to be the nature of humanity, but there are millions of others who don’t. I am a non drinker by choice, I don’t like that woozy feeling I get after a few sips, but I have no objection to anyone having a drink or 2. Just drink in moderation and you will be fine. Abuse it and your health will suffer in the long run. Is there any area of our lives that they don’t want to meddle in? Next thing you know Santa and the Easter Bunny will be paying a travelers tax!!

    • Robert says:

      10:07am | 03/11/11

      Onlooker I’m with you. I don’t drink but don’t care if others do.

      I do however object when other people’s drinking impacts on my comfort. Going to a party you might have one drunken tool but they can usually be avoided but go out into the city on any Friday or Saturday night and it’s wall to wall drunken morons, all seemingly past the point of any self control. This just makes a mockery of the RSA laws.

      As for the taxing of alcohol I really don’t see why we have all these different rules for wine, spirits and beers. Just have a flat tax rate on the actual alcohol content, the more alcoholic the more expensive the drink.

    • dancan says:

      09:42am | 03/11/11

      The same could be said for marijuana couldn’t it?

    • fml says:

      08:47am | 03/11/11

      That woozy feeling is the best part!

      People have sung songs and written poetry about alcohol, I would shudder, cringe and curl up into the fetal position if i read a poem about sobriety (poems about reformed alcoholics i respect).

      Alcohol is for those of us that can’t afford therapy, saying that, in the future i can see therapy being cheaper than booze.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      08:33am | 03/11/11

      @onlooker this applies also to the smoking of tobacco and other herbs, but they’re either illegal or quickly becoming so.

    • centurion48 says:

      08:14am | 03/11/11

      The fact that alcohol has been around a long time is irrelevant. So have wars, famine, infant mortality, etc. Doesn’t mean it is good.
      Not quite sure why the reference to biblical times given that the Greeks were into alcohol just a bit before that (before Greece started its never-ending downward spiral). And don’t even suggest that Greeks didn’t abuse alcohol. Alcohol has been enjoyed by many and abused by a few ever since it was made palatable.

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:29am | 03/11/11

      I always wondered whether the person who first found some fermented fruit and drank it wondered what they’d stumbled across.

 

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