Abbott’s policy vacuum bites him on the bum

Douglas says:

09:05am | 15/08/11

All spin, no substance.

Take away the Liberal shock jocks and a general chorus of media support, and he’d have nothing.

Diogenes says:

09:27am | 15/08/11

Malcolm what about the rest of the reply
“If you don’t want something to happen on your land, you ought to have a right to say no. Now, OK, under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.”

iansand says:

10:09am | 15/08/11

But it is not the government resuming the land.  If he really said that it is time he took a short course on how the system works before he says anything else.  I do not agree with the current system, but Abbott seems not to understand it.

The government licenses a third party to exploit resources that the government retained when the first grant of that land to a private individual was made.  That reservation appears on every NSW Certificate of Title I have ever seen, bar one.  “Reservations and conditions in the Crown grant” are not empty words.

mick says:

03:49pm | 15/08/11

Give back the mining tax, kill the carbon tax, more tax breaks for the wealthy and big business.  How much more before average Australians see the writing on the wall.
The truth is that Abbott like his Party is there to do bidding of big business at the expense of average Australians, including small business which drives this nation.
About time everyone saw the carbon tax scare campaign for what it was.  I mean it was clear that Abbott must have been rapped over the knuckles by his political masters.  Why else would he have done a reverse face on now not protecting farmers 24 hours later.
I hope people start to see the Liberal Party for whom it represents and what it is doing.  Maybe vote them in in get yourself a new version of work Choices, coming to a polling booth near you.  Good luck.

acotrel says:

11:08pm | 15/08/11

I wonder how Tony and his new friend Bobbie will run the country?  No wonder Alan Jones is getting bitchie?

LeftRightOut says:

07:08am | 15/08/11

Yep, straight from the ALP speaking notes… another fail, Mal.

I notice that Mal quoted rather selectively, too…

              “If you don’t want something to happen on your land, you ought to have a right to say no. Now, OK, under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.”

What’s wrong, Mal? Why leave off the rest if you’re “reporting accurately”?*

*It’s public knowledge that you’re a stooge, I was be facetious.

Tom says:

08:39am | 15/08/11

The other hypocrisy is that these ALP flunky “journos” pump out the line that Abbott has no policies. However, in this case Mal does not ask the question, “What is Gillard’s position?”. Apparently Labor does not have to put up on the issue.

For that matter Mal, why not put an asterisk next to my post and compare Gillard’s position on the matter in a response? Tell us how Gillard proposes to balance the two competing pressures? (I am no stooge, just a deeply concerned Australian).

Blind Freddy says:

09:33am | 15/08/11

Erick knows that Tony won’t withstand scrutiny. The nightmare for any half-intelligent Liberal is that Tony will be held up to the light and discovered to be as transparent as his political tactics. Ahh . . . the light has such a cleansing and healing effect . . .

Dissident says:

10:42am | 15/08/11

Blind Freddy, I think you will find that the Liberal party is deliberately holding back on the policy front, and for damn good reason.

Remember 2007?

John Howard: “The coalition will undertake policy x”

Kevin Rudd: “Yeah, me too. Oh, but I am FRESH!”

(I loved the irony of a copy cat candidate saying that he was FRESH)

Repeat ad naseum.

And we collectively fell for it. (For the record, I did not fall for the Rudd rhetoric but it is a moot point because my vote isn’t worth 10mil!)

Usually the Government will tell the opposition something along the lines of “take a back seat, sunshine, we are in charge” or “do you mind if I be in charge for a while?” (Gunnery Sargeant Hartman style!). This government is asked “what do you think about abc?” and will respond “well, Tony Abbott thinks abc, so he is a jerk.”

The Labor party is a policy vacuum (unless you count naked tax grabs) and the Coalition is well advised to hold aside their policies. Even Labor’s asylum seeker policies are moving back to the coalition policies, albiet with rank waste of money and worse care for the refugees. At least in Nauru Australians were in charge of their care.

As an aside, where are the rent-a-crowd protesters now? Not bleating about ‘deaths at sea’ and inhumane treatment now, are they?

Strategically, the Coalition absolutely should hold aside the real policies so the Labor Government can’t copy them and pass them off as their own.

Max Redlands says:

11:18am | 15/08/11

@Dissident “Strategically, the Coalition ...should hold aside their policies so the Labor Government can’t copy them and pass them off as their own.”

Agreed and not only that but now is not the time. If I were the LNP I would be keeping my powder as dry as possible until an election is called.

The LNP getting mired in debate over its policies at this stage is of no benefit to it. As opposition it is their role to hold the Governement to account. There is no need to be putting forward alternative policies until they need to convince the electorate of their merit.

Things can change quickly. If a week in politics is a long time two years is an aeon. Why expound a policy now that , at the time of an election, will need to be amended or reconsidered. It’s bad politics and will only benefit Labour by giving them the opportunity to distract the electorate from its incompetent performance and any changes to policy that might be necessary can be attacked as back flipping.

CynicalGoatWA says:

11:20am | 15/08/11

Spot on Erick. We can always rely on Mal for the scoop.
And good point Dissident regarding the “me-tooism” of Rudd in 07. The Canberra press gallery are only after Abbott to release policies now to give Dullard and her merry bunch of incompetents enough time to get Bruce Hawker spinning a line. With the lack of speed that they have shown so far on all important decisions (exactly how long has this Malaysian debacle taken from announcement to now?....oh that’s right. Long enough for almost 900 more queue jumping Centrelink seekers to hop onto their glorified sardine cans), it will take them all of 2 full years to get their slogans in place for the next election.

Mankind says:

11:58am | 15/08/11

Erick thanks for providing an example of the LNP’s line for this (and seemingly every) week….empty negativity.

gobsmack says:

12:24pm | 15/08/11

@Max Redlands
“Why expound a policy now that , at the time of an election, will need to be amended or reconsidered. It’s bad politics..”
Yes.  Good point.
However, Abbott was put on the spot by our de facto opposition leader and, needing to say something pleasing, shot his mouth off.

persephone says:

12:59pm | 15/08/11

Can we have a consistent line from Opposition supporters, please?

Here we have Dissident saying that the Opposition doesn’t have any policies because teh evil Labor party would just steal them if they did.

Further down this thread, we’re given a link to the Coalition’s policies.

So do they have them or don’t they?

(Interestingly, although the policies on their website have been there since 2010, I haven’t seen the government stealing any of them. Perhaps they weren’t good enough?)

Dissident says:

01:16pm | 15/08/11

Persephone, I am saying that the Coalition does have policies, but they aren’t releasing them yet. The ones on the website are relatively static, and as you know, oppositions have the luxury of being able to change their position during their sabatical on the wrong side of the parliament. There are more policies in the Coalition, but they will unlikely release anything when the Government is doing such a sterling job of stuffing things up. Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

It is also silly to expect a consistent line from coalition supporters as a whole. There are something like 10 million of us based on recent polling. You want consistency from 10 million independently thinking people? I think you might have set the bar a little high there!

persephone says:

01:35pm | 15/08/11

Diss

why hasn’t the government stolen any of those policy ideas, though?

Surely that suggests that they’re simply not worth stealing?

Max Redlands says:

01:39pm | 15/08/11

@ persophone
“Can we have a consistent line from Opposition supporters, please?

Here we have Dissident saying that the Opposition doesn’t have any policies ...

Further down this thread, we’re given a link to the Coalition’s policies.”

Well that criticism cuts both ways. So you now agree the LNP does have policies and all this talk that it doesn’t is just so much hot air?

Dissident has basically made my response for me. However, I reiterate my opinion that the LNP’s best tactic, for now,  is to keep the spotlight well and truly on Labour’s inept performance.

DC says:

01:40pm | 15/08/11

@LeftRightOut and other folks who are confused:

Resuming land is what the Government does when it needs the land for some reason.  In other words, they buy the land for a specific and normally permanent use, such as widening roads, building new roads etc etc.

This is completely separate to a State Government allowing someone to mine the resources underneath a property.

stevem says:

02:13pm | 15/08/11

DC says   01:40pm | 15/08/11

“This is completely separate to a State Government allowing someone to mine the resources underneath a property.” No, that has been done for years. Coal mines stretch under many farms a wineries in the Hunter valley, causing very little concern to anybody.

What is very different with Coal Seam Gas is the network of pipes and service roads criss crossing farmland.

Dissident says:

02:43pm | 15/08/11

Perse - they have done a nice job trying to steal the Pacific Solution. Pity they didn’t get the effective bits.

The reason they haven’t stolen any of the coalitions new policies is because they don’t know what they are, because they haven’t released them yet. You can’t steal your neighbour’s car until he brings it home from the dealership!

And my point stands, the Government is getting slaughtered in the polls. Don’t interrupt an enemy while he is making a mistake. Particularly a Government that has the ‘reverse-Midas touch.’

NB - I am trying to think of a term that we could use for the ‘reverse-Midas touch’ that isn’t so clunky. The best I can think of is the ‘Judas touch’ but I am sure that the Punchers will have something more impressive than that.

Greg says:

03:40pm | 15/08/11

Malcolm is just another Labor pimp.

I honestly don’t know how Malcolm Farr and the rest of the leftoid hacks can stomach what they write.  Day after unremitting day they scoot about cleaning up the mess that is Gillard and her disgraceful government, and attempt to distract by creating these sort of distractions.

Farr, you are a disgrace.  You, Cooney, the execrable Grattan, that bloated toad Oakes, Hartcher, poor old Lemonfaced Lenore, Fran Kelly, the much unlamented Tony Jones, are finished.

You are not journalists, and each of you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves in your unremitting cheer-squadding for this pack of disgraceful incompetents.

Your time is clearly past Farr.  The Australian people are speaking, and they are saying quite clearly:

CALL AN ELCTION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

john says:

04:23pm | 15/08/11

@Greg

“CALL AN ERCTION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ” calling for erik or election?

Isn’t that what reporters should be calling for as well, what happened to the days the reporters used to be on the side of the people ?

Don’t journos get what the polls are saying any more?

Noticed my previous post was removed….seems even the punch can’t handle the truth

graham says:

08:51pm | 15/08/11

@ all the of the so-called Abbotteers out there who, like Abbott, pretend that they have policies in the Coalition, but won’t disclose them, blah, blah, blah..  Do you really think that anyone should stand by and watch whilst someone with ‘inferior’ policies takes the nation down the chute?
Shouldn’t they, for the sake of the nation, announce these ‘policies’ and thereby put Australia first. Gillard would love to get hold of policies from Abbott. Even Abbott would like get hold of a policy from Abbott.
And Dissedent, If there are 10ml coalition supporters why are we having this debate. How many people do you think there are in this country?  But that claim is, for your lot, par for the course. So mea culpa. I shouldn’t hold you responsible. No-one else does.

acotrel says:

11:21pm | 15/08/11

The ALP would be idiots not to capitalise on such stupidity !  Abbott has handed them a gift! And after all the cynical bullshit over the mining tax, who could blame them for taking full advantage of it?

David S says:

04:42am | 16/08/11

Abbott really needs to get his facts straight before making policy on the run.  The coal seam gas industry is not particularly intrusive and remediates the land once extraction has taken place.  We are not talking about open cut mines here.  There is also very little evidence that fresh water aquifers are contaminated by fracking fluid.  Fracking takes place at dramatically lower depths.

Malcolm is also indirectly pointing out how having actual policy means creating winners and losers.  Similar to the $70 billion in cuts that are not yet identified, the Liberal party is discovering that the political benefits of just saying ‘no’ might be a short lived mirage when the blowtorch of policy analysis is fired their way.
Will we see anti-Abbott mining ads on TV?  Remains to be seen, but Abbott’s dream run can now officially be called over.

thick says:

08:12am | 16/08/11

the blind faith of the stupid. “they haven’t released the policies cause them labors are gunna steal ‘em”. People, so thick, you happily support an opposition with secret policies hidden from view…....... and you admit to such stupidity. No wonder you think Abbot is such a star.

john says:

08:32am | 16/08/11

@David S

“The coal seam gas industry is not particularly intrusive and remediates the land once extraction has taken place.”

Pigs do fly!

Does the polluted underground water also get cleaned does it? Or does the farmer pump it up for sheep/cattle drinking water, where its contaminants end up on our dinner table?

acotrel says:

04:16pm | 16/08/11

@Dissident
‘Persephone, I am saying that the Coalition does have policies, but they aren’t releasing them yet. ‘

Tony Abbott is right, he should keep his big ideas to himself.  They’ll obviously only benefit a certain section of society anyway . What is going to happen when we get to the next election, and he still cannot be constructive?  Will you still vote for him in the hope that the LNP might regain their birthright? What is the priority?

Joan says:

07:56am | 15/08/11

Yep sounds fair to me. Australians don’t want to sell out prize rural agricutural land to mining , coal-gas fields operators.- turn all of Australia into one great quarry. Gillard ready to turn Australia into nation of potholes- and Australia landscape into one big unreliable wind turbine industrial zone.  - Gillard with her Carbon Tax on everything has set a gloom and doom on Australians, with retail sales plumeting and job downturn as indicators of lack of confidence in Gillard Team of cornballs Brown. Oakeshott, Windsor, Wilke, Swan, Flannery.  No sunshine from this team today, tomorrow or the future.

gobsmack says:

12:26pm | 15/08/11

@Joan
“Gillard ready to turn Australia into nation of potholes”.
According to your lot, Gillard is the enemy of mining in Australia.
Like Abbott, you need to make your mind up.

persephone says:

12:33pm | 15/08/11

Joan

nothing to do with Gillard. This is a state issue.

And make up your mind - do you want investment or don’t you?

You can’t complain about miners wanting to invest in Australia on the one hand whilst complaining that there’s a lack of confidence in the country on the other.

The very fact that miners want to invest here is a vote of confidence in the economy and an indication that the carbon price isn’t deterring investment.

Obviously if someone wants to invest here, they think the economy’s doing OK, and they’ll be able to make money here.

And of course, by investing in Australia, they’ll create jobs.

As for the doom and gloom merchant, his name is Tony Abbott..

Joan says:

01:53pm | 15/08/11

I want food on the table for future generations grown in Australia not pot holes and. wasted top soil Gillard sends jobs off shore and now plans to source food from who knows where. .  A bit of common sense is needed, and food on the tablet wins over miner rights at any time and anywhere policy. We truely are a nation of dimwits it we don’t secure prize land for food production

persephone says:

02:06pm | 15/08/11

No, Joan, it’s State governments who approve mining projects, not Julia Gillard, so you can’t blame her for that.

What jobs has Gillard sent offshore? Please name them.

As for food, we currently export 66% of the food we produce, so we’ve got a long way to go before we’re starving.

Steve Putnam says:

07:30pm | 15/08/11

No Abbott is not doing that at all. Today he refused to answer a direct question about whose rights would prevail when push comes to shove: the miners or the farmers. Nobody’s taking cheap shots at Abbott, its all self-inflicted.

Abottabad says:

10:37am | 15/08/11

They coalition has no hand Max.

Rick says:

01:24pm | 15/08/11

They may have a hand .......Abbott is holding the old maid.

Deepthinker says:

07:21am | 15/08/11

Ubetcha she is a fake just like her red hair , she must bought up all the red dye in Australia, she must get a touch up every morning as the grey never shows, it is no wonder she was a successful lawyer for Slayer and Gordon as there is no heart in this woman, tears at the press club, what a performance, I’ll bet she even cried in court.

TomZ says:

09:04am | 15/08/11

“a lovely smile on her face”? Glad you think so.

jf says:

09:44am | 15/08/11

TomZ says:09:04am | 15/08/11

“a lovely smile on her face”? Glad you think so.”

Why?

TomZ says:

11:16am | 15/08/11

jf, You may be correct. It is no reason to be “glad” that ATM sees it as “lovely”. Would you go along with “concerned”?

Unionist says:

07:50am | 15/08/11

Let them go bro…. it always get me a giggling. Nothing like a sore loser than a Liberal losing poll points. You reckon poor old Mal would get a fair trial if they had the power.

nossy says:

08:52am | 15/08/11

@TChong - spot on Chongy - yes the Liberal Party Members are out in force today defending their “Messiah” from yet another Class A gaff! Ohhhh how sweet it is!

TomZ says:

09:06am | 15/08/11

Unionist, tell us why you hate Australian workers.

jf says:

09:50am | 15/08/11

“If you don’t want something to happen on your land, you ought to have a right to say no. Now, OK, under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.”

Where is the hypocrisy in that statement Chongy.

This is a complex issue with conflicting economic, social, and legal implications. Abbott’s statement doesn’t attempt to simplify a complex issue but instead says that whilst land may have to be resumed, personal rights must also be recognised and, as far as possible and practical, protected.

Abbottabad says:

10:53am | 15/08/11

If he wasn’t being inconsistent, then why is this squirm session so awkward. I’m no fan of the man but this was so uncomfortable and embarrassing that I just wanted them to let him go. The man’s got nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGXKO5qKR8

Abbottabad says:

10:53am | 15/08/11

If he wasn’t being inconsistent, then why is this squirm session so awkward. I’m no fan of the man but this was so uncomfortable and embarrassing that I just wanted them to let him go. The man’s got nothing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGXKO5qKR8

max headroom says:

12:44pm | 15/08/11

nossy you know who owns the biggest coal gas mining mob here in Aus at present, its the Chinese Govt ,stop the spin, all abbott said was we should have more say over who resumes and mines prime agricultural land. nothing more and nothing less. more desperate spin from the zombie party hangers on

graham says:

12:50pm | 15/08/11

@ jf. The inconsistency is wrapped around the opposition to a carbon tax which, the Rabbit says, will result in miners losing their jobs. And the miners not being allowed to mine won’t? Scarcity of coal will drive energy through the roof, you nitwit.
Be a supporter of Abbottism if you must, but be a little bit sensible in your support. Is he for mining or not? Both mining and food production can happily co-exist, so why, apart from blind faith, would any Australian wish to destroy either of them? I’ll tell you. People like you and Abbott who will sacrifice anything and anyone in the cowardly name of political expediency. Including Australia. Bloody traitors.

jf says:

01:33pm | 15/08/11

Graham says:
12:50pm | 15/08/11
“And the miners not being allowed to mine won’t? Scarcity of coal will drive energy through the roof, you nitwit.”

The carbon tax will result in miners losing their jobs for no gain. Respecting land owners rights at the same time as recognising that
“under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price” won’t. Nitwit.

“Is he for mining or not?”

I assume that he is. I certainly haven’t read or heard anything remotely suggesting that he isn’t. Nitwit

“Both mining and food production can happily co-exist, so why, apart from blind faith, would any Australian wish to destroy either of them?”

Agreed. Nitwit.

“People like you and Abbott who will sacrifice anything and anyone in the cowardly name of political expediency.”

The only political expediency being exhibited on this issue is by the ALP who, in response to Abbott’s statement that owner’s rights should be protected but that “under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.” Nitwit.

Anichol says:

09:02pm | 16/08/11

@jf Im a miner and the mob i work for are planning to shutdown the plant in 5 years, then they plan to move on the otherside of the road and dig a new hole.
No miner will lose there job because of the carbon price.

Its interesting to read again and again people qouting Abbott’s comments as it has raised a question for me.
Did he say it is alright for government to resume land? shouldnt that have been miners?
Hmm nicely done Abbott!

The Badger says:

08:06am | 15/08/11

“Abbot does listen to the people and therefore if he makes a mistake in policies the people can make him change.”

Good to see you admit that Abbott’s a weathervane.
At least you have a bit of honesty, Admitting Abbott says whatever the audience of the night wants to hear.

TChong says:

09:01am | 15/08/11

“Doctor “G
Read your comment in fairfax.
You worked for the UN?
But you also codemn any money sent to the UN as getting wasted on overheads, including wages, like you recieved?
The wages paid to you were legit , of course, but not legit, and a waste when the UN pays others for work. ?

Tubesteak says:

09:04am | 15/08/11

You make Abbott sound like a weathervane.

At least with a weathervane you can’t criticise it for being directionless.

True leaders don’t follow opinion polls or popularity contests. They do what is right and what is in the best interests for the future of the nation and measure their success by the economic and cultural outcomes of their actions.

Unfortunately, neither party seems to know this.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

09:46am | 15/08/11

@ TChong says: 09:01am

Thanks for reading what I write.

I worked AT the UN long time ago. I did not work FOR the UN. Hope this clarifies why I can criticize the great waste at UN.

TChong says:

09:52am | 15/08/11

My apologies Dr G
My misread.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

10:01am | 15/08/11

@ TChong says: 09:52am

No problem. Thanks again for reading what I write.

Abbottabad says:

10:44am | 15/08/11

So Dr, who did you work FOR when you were AT the UN?

Mattb says:

11:28am | 15/08/11

“Right now what Abbot thinks is not important to Australia”

WTF??.. Tony is our current alternate PM, he and his supporters are calling for a new election every second day. Why is what Tony thinks ‘not important’ to us Doc?

Do you think it’s wise for Tony and his liberals to be travelling the country talking the economy down in the current global economic environment?. Or does that not matter because “Right now what Abbot thinks is not important to Australia”

Do you think it’s wise for Tony and his liberals to be travelling the country telling everyone the strongest industry we have a present, the mining industry, is doomed?. Or does that not matter because “Right now what Abbot thinks is not important to Australia”

Tell me doc, do you think it’s wise that Tony downplays the role of economists and scientists in helping formulate policy that will restructure our economy, setting us up for the future?. Or does that not matter because “Right now what Abbot thinks is not important to Australia”

Are you seriously that deluded Doc, to think that “Right now what Abbot thinks is not important to Australia”. Please tell me you aren’t….

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

11:54am | 15/08/11

@ Abbottabad says: 10:44am.

If you want to know what I do please read my book, Management and Analysis of Biological Populations, Elsevier Press, NEW YORK., 1980.

One of the fundamental principles I tell my students is that a Govt must always be truthful to the voters in order to maintain the support of the voters in any policy to fight Environmental Problems.

Here we see the PM and the ALP leaders being conned big time by hocus pocus abstract Economics Principles which do not work in practice. My challenge to the ALP leaders is to tell us by how much you must tax a coal power station in Australia for it to change to renewable energy like solar? It is pretty grim,  the tax needed to achieve this outcome.

The PM and the ALP leaders should realize by now that they have been conned by hocus pocus abstract Economics Principles. If they do not realize this fact it worries me even more.

persephone says:

12:20pm | 15/08/11

Doc

you’re falling for one of the common misconceptions on this whole issue - that we have to get rid of all coal fired electricity if we’re to do anything on climate change.

No government document suggests this, and indeed, the forward projections to 2050 quite clearly show that we can achieve dramatic reductions in emissions and continue to use coal fired electricity.

At present, we need coal for baseload, and will probably continue to need it for this purpose for another couple of decades (it would be lovely if we didn’t use it at all, and make mitigation much easier, but the real world is just that).

But if we can minimise the use of coal for power other than baseload, and use other alternatives for future energy growth, then we can make substantial impacts on emissions that way.

Indirectly, of course, the price on carbon will fund the closure of the worst emitting power stations, as it will provide the government with the funds it needs to decomission them.

So the economics of it is clear; by increasing the price of emissions, you encourage both consumers and producers to look at alternative power sources, which would otherwise not be so attractive.

And by charging a price for carbon, the government puts money in the kitty towards the purchase and decommission of some of the coal fired electricity plants.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

12:41pm | 15/08/11

@ persephone says: 12:20pm

I work on projects in the real world. I keep running into problems with abstract hocus pocus Economics Principles. Look at your own statement: So the economics of it is clear; by increasing the price of emissions, you encourage both consumers and producers to look at alternative power sources, which would otherwise not be so attractive.

Who may I ask are the ultimate agents of CO2 emission in Australia? I submit WE ALL ARE !! Study the PM carbon tax. package. She is going to compensate 80% or more of us from the pain of the carbon tax.  So are we gong to change our habits to reduce CO2 emission??

All that the power stations and business do when they are hit by the carbon tax is to pass the increased costs on to the customers. This is because as in the case of a coal power station the business cannot change their mode of operations.

We need a quantum change in new energy sources or go Nuclear to really make significant impact on CO2 emission in Australia if you want business rather than consumers to change in a big way. Otherwise down the road Australia ends up paying many BILLIONS each year to overseas ETS some of which have proven to be scams.

persephone says:

01:28pm | 15/08/11

Doc

I certainly agree that we are all responsible for carbon emissions, and that we shouldn’t go blaming companies for providing us with a product we’ve asked for.

However, it is also a universal truth that when something becomes more expensive we look for cheaper options.

A carbon price artificially raises the price of carbon intensive power sources, which thus makes non carbon intensive power sources more attractive.

Compensating people doesn’t change this very basic drive.

Firstly, you have the 10% of domestic consumers who aren’t compensated. They’ll be looking for ways to reduce their bills.

Secondly, those who get compensation get it indirectly. They’ll still be looking at higher electricity bills, and their reaction will be to look for ways to reduce those.

Thirdly, consumers will see other price rises. Again, although they’re compensated for these, they will still automatically, given a choice of products where price is the only differential, go for the cheaper product.

The carbon price will have the effect of making products produced by companies who use less energy, or use energy from non carbon sources, cheaper compared to their competitors.

This has two effects - the companies which benefit from higher sales turnover have more money to invest and their competitors are given the incentive to reduce their carbon emissions so that they can compete.

You’re right, those companies who solely produce electricity from coal fired sources can’t change immediately. However:

1. many power companies don’t have all their eggs in the coal basket at present; this will encourage them to shift their focus even more onto renewables.

2. companies which rely at present solely on coal will be encouraged to diversify, particularly when it comes to providing non baseload power. Doing so would give them a competitive advantage; and

3. all power plants, including coal ones, have finite lives.  A carbon price will encourage energy companies when they reach the point where the power plant needs a complete upgrade to consider other options, or to upgrade the plant to use coal more efficiently.

We now this can be done; older power plants are far less efficient in their use of coal to generate power than newer ones, and older power plants which have undergone upgrades have become more efficient, producing the same power with less emissions.

Dr B S Goh, Australian in Asia says:

02:08pm | 15/08/11

@ persephone says: 01:28pm

Thanks again for sharing me your ideas.

To me we need to keep pinching ourselves and remind ourselves that global warming is a GLOBAL problem and not an Australian problem per se.

As I said a few times in The Punch and elsewhere there is a really a simple and effective way for Australia to do something serious about global warming. Just lift the embargo on uranium sales to India.

The annual CO2 emission that we can help India reduce would be MANY TIMES the annual TOTAL CO2 emission from Australia.

Instead of spending $10 billion dollars on R&D on failed renewable energy like wind and solar in Australia we should spend this money on Thorium Nuclear Reactor research with India and China. The Thorium Nuclear Reactors can be safe and their products cannot be used for Nuclear Weapons.

The main problem with solar energy in Australia is the high costs of materials and labour.

I like to share with you some good news on solar energy. China buys our coal at great expense relative to their standard of living. Their costs in solar energy, materials and labour are a fraction of ours. For example solar heaters in China costs about 10% of those in Australia.

China is hoping that by 2015, as reported yesterday, the solar energy power stations in China will be competitive to coal power stations.

Damian Parkhill says:

03:21pm | 15/08/11

@Goh

Hey Hey! another believer in Thorium like me

But its not just the pollution that Thorium could solve, with access to cheap clean and nearly unlimited power, we can use distillation to provide people and crops with water allowing water catchments to return to their natural courses - And we can cut our reliance on fossil fuels by using that excess power to run electric cars with remote recharge points like they do in South Korea.

Cutting CO2, Saving the environment -and- maintaining our way of life - win all around!

BobM says:

07:58am | 15/08/11

@Red - Ha ha,  o deluded one. This is all about to change - the $hit is about to hit the fan….....

Chris L says:

03:47pm | 15/08/11

@BobM - According to conservatives the shit has been on the verge of hitting the fan since 2007. It’s been quite a wait.

Will you be happy when it finally happens after all that anticipation?

TomZ says:

03:15pm | 15/08/11

Good try mini-Mal, but Abbott is pointing to competing pressures with honesty and the assurance of a winner while the government sneak. There is no “gaff”.

Fiona says:

07:53am | 15/08/11

Couldn’t agree more. I’d much rather eat home grown meat and veg than foreign.the selling off of our land to other countries for agricultural use is also ridiculous. Wonder how they’d take having their land wrecked by mining when they’ve paid so much for it? We need to stop casting covetous eyes at every plot of open space. I hope something does get done about this finally.

fairsfair says:

09:02am | 15/08/11

I agree. I see his comments within context and for that reason I am struggling to make the connection that the author is making. There is a marked difference between what is going on with Coal Seam gas and remote areas of this country. I would have thought that required no explanation, but clearly it does and Tony giving the media pack outside the WA convention the benefit of the doubt, has clearly been a mistake.

TChong says:

08:36am | 15/08/11

yeah mal
the micheals of Punchland wont accept anything that scrutinises Abbott , or his flip flops.
Mick and pals prefer their Murdoch press to be completely subservient, and to ask no questions about alternative govt policies.
Be very careful Mal, you’ll cause mass foot stamping and hissy fits, and the Abbottophiles will hold their breath until you change your evil commie ways.
We’ll show him, wont we Mick?
BTW Mike - “former treasurer quits “pales into insignificance when even you can remember when Fraser quit the Libs in disgust at its far right hate filled policies.

Michael says:

09:35am | 15/08/11

Wont accept a lack of scrutiny by the compliant few in the media.

Tchong, you are the sum of your contributions on this site, clearly you and i have different ideas about what type of impression we would like to leave with people.

Abbottabad says:

10:58am | 15/08/11

TChong - 1
Michael - 0
Play on.

Michael says:

11:16am | 15/08/11

It’s the long game that counts, i’ll be here to rub your noses in it.

Call you on your BS when the times call for it, see if you keep the positions you staked out and held on matters, when the clean up begins.

Adam Diver says:

12:59pm | 15/08/11

“Fraser quit the Libs in disgust at its far right hate filled policies”

Like the malaysian solution or the arguments against euthanasia, same-sex marriage, attack on welfare dependents and the like.

Actually its scary to see how similar the policies are… only competance seperates them.

Winkler says:

01:01pm | 15/08/11

Be very afraid Chongy an anonymous poster threatens to hold you to account by logging all of your posts and analysing them sometime down the road.
Obsessive compulsive much michael? Have a lot of time on your hands? Perhaps you should try reading something other than right wing tripe.
Is your surname Mouse by chance ....... or
by design?

Michael says:

07:08am | 16/08/11

It’s called a memory winkler, if you don’t talk shit you don’t have to remember what you told to whom, there’s no logging going on you freak

Paranoid much?

PsychoHyena says:

09:41am | 15/08/11

Troy: At least if Gillard showed the same concern it would be inline with current policy. Gillard has hit mining with the MRRT and a policy to allow farmers to block mining companies would go nicely with this.

Abbott however campaigned against the MRRT saying it was going to damage investment in the industry which is the lifeblood of Australia, and bringing in the tax would ruin the Australian economy. Abbott now says that an MRRT is bad (people getting a decent amount of money for the resources) but keeping those resources in the ground and inaccessible is good.

Ahhhh I see the bigger plan here, he allows farmers to block miners, the MRRT kicks in and any mining companies that pull out, etc do so “because of the MRRT” and “Labour ruined the economy” rather than “because we aren’t allowed to mine anywhere”.

Regardless of the stance Abbott takes on this one he will either have to suffer the wrath of the farmers or the wrath of the tens-of-thousands employed by the mining industry. Question is what will cause him the biggest loss of numbers next election?

PsychoHyena says:

09:47am | 15/08/11

Just an addendum: Apparently Abbott has made up his mind and the tens-of-thousands of mining employees are more important than sustaining Australian farmland.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/coalition-wont-back-greens-csg-bill/story-e6frfku0-1226115016411

jf says:

09:59am | 15/08/11

PsychoHyena says:09:41am | 15/08/11

“Regardless of the stance Abbott takes on this one he will either have to suffer the wrath of the farmers or the wrath of the tens-of-thousands employed by the mining industry. Question is what will cause him the biggest loss of numbers next election?”

So PsychoHyena can you point out the policy or statement by anyone in the coalition that says that the coalition’s policy is “about keeping those resources in the ground and inaccessible is good”. Don’t point out the half of the statement that Mal used that on further reading is about protecting rights of landholders and doesn’t at all suggest that mining would stop of even that land resumption would stop.

Tim says:

11:02am | 15/08/11

Good post Super D,
This really comes down to a NIMBY issue, with Farmers trying to claim a right to something they never had.
Perhaps they should read their lease?

iansand says:

11:01am | 15/08/11

The statement overturns about 160 years of mining regulation in Australia.  Should that be the subject of policy or Alan Jones’ opinion?

Charles says:

06:17pm | 15/08/11

iansand as usual misses the point and makes one of his familiar epic fails.

Unrestricted access to farming land for coal seam gas extraction is relatively new and has been available to miners for less than five years.  This privilege was given by NSW and QLD state ALP governments.

For all other mining, even just to get access for exploration, mining companies have to write to the landholder just to seek permission to get on their property. 

So which 160 year old statute are you referring to:  ‘the iansand I just made it up’, one?

iansand says:

07:13pm | 15/08/11

Charles - Oh dear.  Are you serious?

michael says:

08:23am | 15/08/11

This is good news, royalties are killing Aboriginals, made them welfare dependent and dysfunctional.

persephone says:

12:44pm | 15/08/11

Sorry, JohnB, but how is this Labor’s fault?

Mining laws are regulated by the states.

Each state government have their own regulations regarding miners’ access to private land. These laws generally date back to the 1860s.

Some state governments - Victoria and WA, for example - give the private landholder the right to refuse access to miners. Others don’t.

Given that all states have had both Liberal and Labor governments, you can’t blame Labor alone for that situation.

JohnB says:

03:48pm | 15/08/11

These lands should be seen as a national asset and retained as Australian farm land. It is both parties fault. Presently Labor is the federal government. They should be pressuring the states.

“give the private landholder the right to refuse access to miners”...............that’s ridiculous. It’s like giving my ten year old $5 and telling him it’s his choice if he buys lollies or not.

You know way too much about politics persephone….Let’s hear what your role is.

lordy says:

04:40pm | 15/08/11

No they haven’t, Its the likes of you who have it wrong and are destroying our reputations as fair-minded people. Both sides of the politics allow foreign investments, if they didn’t, farmers wouldn’t have no money or the guts to stay farming and would rely more and more on government handouts, which they do anyway.

JohnB says:

09:07am | 16/08/11

If you could look beyond yourself there lordy, you’d see that farm land is incredibly valuable. If we continue to allow BOTH sides of politics to populate us far beyond sustainable, we’ll need that land. We’ll also need to farm the fertile National Parks. What’s the ridiculous Greens think about that, while they dither with all their other rubbish? Like I said. There is no plan. The growth model is broken, kuput, finished. Anyone not recognising that has their head…...

That would be the best way to spend my tax dollars, acquiring farm land. Instead we have the worst government in history sending us broke at the same time as selling everything to overseas…...Your view is very selfish lordy. Do you have kids?

Kipling says:

09:07am | 15/08/11

So would I be wrong assuming that you do not support the state Liberal governments plan sell off of public owned electricity…?

Thirsty says:

09:47am | 15/08/11

@Kipling
Where can you come up with an opinion from me on state elctricty when reading my comments?
I am not saying that Abbott is wrong, I am saying that the miners squealed like cut pigs over the resources rent tax (which they asked for…), I was just saying that I wonder what their response will be of Abbotts plan…are they more against a profits tax, or against an idea that will curtail their mining rights altogether??
Just for you @Kipling, my opinion on state elctricity is the same as all government enterprises…Government should supply services, but should not be in business, ie, I think that electricty generation should be 100% private, but not in a retail sense, private operators should tender to supply government on a wholesale level, then the government supplies the service to retail customers on a pure cost recovery basis. You get the best of both worlds, private enterprise compete to deliver the electricity at the lowest possible price, but the actual supply of electricity is a deemed service delivered by government on cost recovery, ie, customers are buying electricity for wholesale, not retail

jf says:

09:56am | 15/08/11

Thirsty says:08:20am | 15/08/11

“The miners spent $20 Million on a campaign to stop a pure profts tax, one that they championed 2 years ago….how much are they going to spend to stop this plan to halt their exploration and mining activities on freehold land?”

I don’t think that either of the two major parties have said anything that suggests that this is their policy. Although I conceded that with the ALP’s current partnership with the Greens that, just as with the carbon tax, they could very well alter their position.

Thirsty says:

11:21am | 15/08/11

@jf
why is it when a Labor leader mentions something, like, lets say, there will be no carbon tax, this automatically becomes policy gospel (as it should), but when an LNP leader says that land owners should have the right to refuse exploration access to their properties, its not deemed policy, or as Peirs says, it was a private citizen saying it, not the alternative PM? All I am after is consistency in argument, something that is lacking….

Andrew says:

11:30am | 15/08/11

That’s right, it isn’t a policy announcement. Cause that would mean TA actually had a policy wouldn’t it? The article is a simple statement of fact, TA will open his mouth and support whatever he thinks people want to hear.
So what is his position on this matter? One better, what is his position on anything apart from Tax and Refugees? Like everyone else, you have no idea. However, if you want to know, listen to Alan Jones.

CynicalGoatWA says:

11:07am | 15/08/11

....and that’s not even taking into account the 17 seats that she so brilliantly lost off her own back in last year’s election Mark.

Terry says:

03:28pm | 15/08/11

It ceases to amaze me that your comments gets published and mine doesn’t. It doesn’t really matter anyway because I totally agree with you MarK. Mal Farr & David Marr are very similar Farr & Marr have one track minds and that is to discredit Tony Abbott come what may.

Kim says:

09:06am | 15/08/11

Abbott deliberately didn’t feed the pathetic journo’s scrambling to get him to say anything to report on. The best they finished up with (as Farr has done) is say he said nothing to reporters after giving a speech in WA.
As an ex journo I’m sure Abbott knows exactly what he’s doing in the media and the likes of Farr and pro Labor/Gillard journo’s are driven to exhaustion by it.
Well done Abbott! He leaves them with an empty vessel once again to whinge about.

ibast says:

09:40am | 15/08/11

“He leaves them with an empty vessel once again to whinge about. “

PMSL.  Couldn’t have said it better myself.

JohnB says:

09:57am | 15/08/11

Yeah. What he should have said “it’s the right thing to do”...Now that’s prime minister material. Don’t answer questions…Just repeat…. “it’s the right thing to do”...... “it’s the right thing to do”..... “it’s the right thing to do”......nauseating.

Geoff - Brisbane says:

01:37pm | 15/08/11

@ JohnB

Moving forward,  Working Families, Moving forward,  Working Families, Moving forward,  Working Families, Moving forward,  Working Families, Moving forward,  Working Families, Moving forward,  Working Families,

Michael says:

09:39am | 15/08/11

Godwin Greche… your’re dreaming.

gobsmack says:

12:41pm | 15/08/11

Yes but unfortunately the laws you are wanting upheld are made (and can be amended) by the state.

nossy says:

09:19am | 15/08/11

@Dman - brilliant Dman! Yes Abbott speaks with “forked tongue” - thats when his feet arnt jammed in his gob! He wouldnt make a PM’s arsehole Dman!

JT says:

09:55am | 15/08/11

Are you Labor fools really that stupid?

There is no contradiction in supporting both mining and farming, after all mining in the middle of the desert is quite different to mining in our most fertile farming land. Only the most idiotic of people would think in such absolution’s.

jf says:

10:11am | 15/08/11

Dman says:09:11am | 15/08/11
“Is anyone at all surprised that Abbott has managed to take two completely contradictory positions on the same issue - again?”

(a) Point to one issue on which Abbott has taken a contrary position.

(b) How is saying that mining is important to our economy and that miners may need to resume farming land contrary to the quite reasonable view that the rights of the owners of that land should be respected?

Presumably you support one of two all or nothing positions - (i) landowners don’t own what is under the ground therefore anyone with a penchant for geology and a shovel should be able to enter the land at will or (ii) landowners rights are sacrosanct and ahead of the greater good and therefore mining should not occur on farming land at any time ever. Fullstop no returns.

jf says:

11:43am | 15/08/11

Thirsty says:
11:21am | 15/08/11

“when an LNP leader says that land owners should have the right to refuse exploration access to their properties”

Is that what he said? My understanding of this comment “If you don’t want something to happen on your land, you ought to have a right to say no. Now, OK, under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.” Is that he is asserting that landowners have certain rights in respect of their land however, it needs to be recognised that the national good must triumph “under certain circumstances”.

Whilst he appears to have mangled the legal intricacies of land ownership laws, I understood the “vibe” of his comment to be that private citizen’s rights were important and should be protected but the greater good must also be considered.

Had he made a black and white statement in favour or farmers or miners on such a complex issue I would have been very concerned.

fml says:

05:53pm | 15/08/11

The way i read it is, if the government says they want to prospect on your land, you just have to suck it up. Essentially, yes you have rights, until we decide we want your land.

It isnt contradictory, hes basically saying, yes you have rights, but if we want to mine on your land we are going to. What exactly are those special circumstances?

nossy says:

12:03pm | 15/08/11

@Rick - that he is indeed Rick and my isnt he squirming beautifully - like a worm on a hook - just think 2 years to go till an election and who knows what messes the “Messiah” may create for himself!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGGXKO5qKR8

Matt says:

11:03am | 15/08/11

“Now, OK, under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.”

Are you unable to read persephone?

persephone says:

11:25am | 15/08/11

Sorry, Matt, but that statement isn’t in the article.

I can’t read something which isn’t there.

The article quotes Abbott as saying:

‘....the thing is that if you don’t want something to happen on your land, you ought to have a right to say no’’

which is in direct conflict with the British tradiction which places the rights of the Crown above those of private landholders.

If Abbott had wanted this tradition overthrown, he had the opportunity to do this during the convention on the Republic.

Instead, he made it clear he saw both the Constitution and the underlying Westminter traditions as beyond reproach.

Which all demonstrates that he says different things to different audiences.

Matt says:

12:03pm | 15/08/11

Sorry persephone, but that was part of the original quote by Tony Abbott (and has been mentioned earlier by other posters, so it is definitely there to read). Try to read a bit further before blindly launching an attack. Otherwise you end up sounding stupid.

MarK says:

12:54pm | 15/08/11

Stupid tends to be pers default position.

All a beat up.

The real question that Mal and pers conveniently forget to ask is if this is such a goer this Green issue why has not Labor come out Labor come out and supported it? After all they are in coalition government.

What is Labor’s ppsition pers? Where do they stand? Has Gillard been given her orders yet?

What does Labor support here? They with their Green partners control the Senate as we are reminded ad nauseum.

Be nice to actually scrutinise the ruling clique policy here.

Oh and for Mal to comment on the sovereign risk claims made by Labor.

Sovereign risk was a real issue for Mal when Lord Monckton spoke about it. Mal is silent now about the issue.

I love irony and hypocrisy. Makes for fun viewing.

How is the Day After Tomorrow working out science wise pers? I see NZ has closed its snowfields. Too much snow. Too cold. Has any royal marine choppers on rescue missions come down due to flash freezing of the fuel lines lately? All caused by global warming no doubt.

Ahh anyway pers please explain why this is so controversial.

“Concern over the issue has sparked a Senate inquiry and on Friday Mr Abbott told Sydney radio host Alan Jones: “If you don’t want something to happen on your land, you ought to have a right to say no. Now, OK, under certain circumstances the government ought to be able to resume your land, but it’s got to be done at a fair price.”

While “reputable miners” would not intrude without permission, Mr Abbott said, “people are entitled to be concerned about any situation where miners are coming on to land against the wishes of landholders”.

Seems to me that is a very adult and responsible decision to take.

Selective reporting is just that. Farr strikes again.

You hate it when facts get in the way of your fibs don’t ya pers.

Adam Diver says:

01:09pm | 15/08/11

Thanks Matt, made my day. Surprised to see Perse not knowing the context of the situation, actually no i’m not.

This story is a massive beat-up. Farr says it himself;  “He attempted to be noncommittal” replace the word attempted and you get the actual story.

How low can you go Farr?

TimB says:

01:10pm | 15/08/11

Whatt’s this Matt? Persephone blindly relying on Mal’s cherrypicked facts instead of doing her own research?

How disappointing.

Matt says:

01:57pm | 15/08/11

I know @TimB. Shocking, isn’t it? It might be time to get out the extra big crayons for her!

Michael says:

09:51am | 16/08/11

Don’t be too harsh on Pers’ she can only manage a topic she actually believes in, hence her being quiet since the carbon and ACC debate got stiffled.

yesthereare says:

11:11am | 15/08/11

No Polcies?
http://www.liberal.org.au/Policies.aspx

persephone says:

12:54pm | 15/08/11

No, those were their policies at the last election.

Many of them are out of date now.

The broadband policy on the site you link to , for example, is significantly different to what Malcolm Turnbull now says is their broadband policy.

Are you seriously saying that the Liberals are simply going to roll over the policies they took to the 2010 election without change?

If so, they’ll be the first major party ever to do that.

Anubis says:

02:11pm | 15/08/11

No perse - but if the Libs were to release their policies then there is no doubtt that, within months, they would become Labor policies. Rudd, the “me too” campaigner proved time and time again that the way for his Labor to formulate policy was to take the opponents policies, change a word here and there, and make them Labor policies. Julia is just as bad, probably more so, as she seems to be quite desperate to get a policy, any policy, that actually comes to fruition. She has tried but just can’t seem to make it work.

How is she going with the Coast Guard, the child care centres, the GP Super Clinics (problem there is that the grants have now been deemed taxable income at the rate of 38% - sorta off putting to potential grantees), The Timor Solution, Manus Island, the Malaysia solution (sorta working - we a re receiving deserving Burmese refugees but not much sign of boaties being sent to Malaysia and no sign of the arriving boats diminishing either).

So prese - just what are Julia’s policies again??

MarK says:

04:12pm | 15/08/11

Please point me to the policies Labor has for the next election.

Besides a great big new tax on everything that they lied about at the last one.

Martin says:

04:25pm | 15/08/11

This nonsense the Labor gibberers keep parroting about Abbott and “no policies” is laughable given Rudd’s behaviour in 2007. Why would you release policy positions 2 years out from an election? Because the Labor nongs say you should? LMAO

fairsfair says:

10:39am | 15/08/11

Come on Knemon - you are better than this!

Karen from Qld says:

11:02am | 15/08/11

“Abbott is back from holidaying in Europe (stuff Australian tourism) “
So I guess a father should not visit his daughter because it means he leaves the country. You are now getting very desperate indeed. Haven’t you ALP types learnt that these sort of personal attacks get you nowhere.
As for losing support - well this may acutually get him more support as a very large proportion of Australians do not like the idea of overseas mining companies walking onto people’s properties and dictating terms.

Dr PJ Goebbels says:

11:26am | 15/08/11

“Success is the important thing. Propaganda is not a matter for average minds, but rather a matter for practitioners. It is not supposed to be lovely or theoretically correct. I do not care if I give wonderful, aesthetically elegant speeches, or speak so that women cry. The point of a political speech is to persuade people of what we think right. I speak differently in the provinces than I do in Berlin, and when I speak in Bayreuth, I say different things than I say in the Pharus Hall. That is a matter of practice, not of theory. We do not want to be a movement of a few straw brains, but rather a movement that can conquer the broad masses. Propaganda should be popular, not intellectually pleasing. It is not the task of propaganda to discover intellectual truths”

Knemon says:

11:39am | 15/08/11

@ Karen - It is a well known fact that our local tourism industry is currently struggling - just saying. It is Abbott who is running around the country purporting to be the saviour of small business, not me. As for this current issue - give it a few days and his views will change, don’t hang on too tightly to what he says, he will drop you in a flash.

Knemon says:

11:42am | 15/08/11

@ fairsfair - The guys a flip flopping weather vane, why should I lie and say he’s not?

@ Karen - It is a well known fact that our local tourism industry is currently struggling - just saying. It is Abbott who is running around the country purporting to be the saviour of small business, not me. As for this current issue - give it a few days and his views will change, don’t hang on too tightly to what he says, he will drop you in a flash.

fairsfair says:

12:00pm | 15/08/11

Its just your language Knemon - it is immature, which I know that you are not. You are very intelligent and capable of a genuine conversation without now introducing his supposed hatred for Australian Tourism operators and making a nazi connection….

I see on the surface how it can be seen as a contradiction in the simplest of senses. However, I believe there is a marked difference between mining companies entering people’s backyards and destroying their livelihoods on the Darling Downs and state government sanctioned exploration and production in uninhabited areas - like remote WA. I don’t like Tony Abbott. I don’t like Julia Gillard. The only thing that will make me vote for Coalition at the next election is the performance of the ALP in recent years. It has nothing to do with ideology or the people. I try not to be partisan on the back of this - Tony says and does some really cringeworth things - but this is not one of them.

And now… in a week where the Malaysian Solution continues to do down the tubes, the media have to manufacture some sort of scandal to discredit a man who isn’t even leading this country. I just don’t get it. I am all for them sticking the boot into him if he does something rediculous - but I don’t think this is rediculous (nor do I think old made who made the Salvos volunteer cry is newsworthy).

Karen from Qld says:

12:13pm | 15/08/11

@Knemon -  “It is a well known fact that our local tourism industry is currently struggling - just saying.” Keep on saying it - it is a free country after all but don;t be surprised when you are seen as being petty and grasping at straws. I very much doubt that most fair minded people including the struggling tourism industry would begrudge any parent’s decision to visit their children overseas.

Knemon says:

01:32pm | 15/08/11

@ fairsfair -  “And now… in a week where the Malaysian Solution continues to do down the tubes, the media have to manufacture some sort of scandal to discredit a man who isn’t even leading this country. I just don’t get it. I am all for them sticking the boot into him…”

I tend to agree except Abbott is our alternative PM, so he should be held to scrutiny…I will try and take heed of your wise words.

fairsfair says:

02:19pm | 15/08/11

Oh I get that Knemon, but as things slowly go tits up, I couldn’t care less about the ins and outs of opposition policy at the expense of attention being taken away from the failures of actual implemented policy. I don’t understand why the spotlight is not shone on the actual leader of this country. Many people go on and on about Abbott’s negativitiy - especially the PM - but honestly who gives a crap? He is powerless to implement change, so why do they waste their breath? I do not recall this kind of attention being given to Kim Beazley and Mark Latham when they were in opposition to John Howard. 

This Malasian Solution is a farce, there are loose ends surrounding the Carbon Tas, but it seems as though we are not supposed to be talking about that.

Wise words… bahahaha, lol - thanks for that

iansand says:

11:44am | 15/08/11

In a word, no.  In NSW if they have a prospecting licence they don’t even have to let the farmer know they are coming.  If they want to mine, there is a process through which they go but they (generally) cannot stop it and landholders are only entitled to compensation.

persephone says:

01:05pm | 15/08/11

Hate to contradict Ian, and am really only doing so only slightly, but apparently it depends what state you’re in.

In Victoria, for example, you have to have written permission from the landholder to prospect or mine on their land.

I understand the situation is the same in WA.

Because it’s a state issue, the legislation (unsurprisingly) varies according to which state you’re in.

iansand says:

02:40pm | 15/08/11

You may have noticed the words “In NSW” at the beginning of the second sentence.  I wonder why I put that there?

MarK says:

09:10pm | 15/08/11

sanderson why did you put NSW in your second sentence?

Rick says:

03:17pm | 15/08/11

Underground mining has been going on for how many years? 40,000? You think they would have dug clean through to China in that amount of time!

Blind Freddy says:

03:25pm | 15/08/11

Well that’s what he said to the Parrot but he refused to repeat, or even discuss, his comments when within earshot of the mining companies in WA.

Abbott will say anything to get elected. Actions speal louder than words and watching him nervously avoid the legitimate questions spoke volumes.

MarK says:

09:50pm | 15/08/11

“Abbott will say anything to get elected.”

Sort of like making “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”

Or saying that claims to the contrary where “hysterical”

Just trying to put it all in perspective. I get so confused with the “rules”.

Stop the blame game. Reform hospitals. Lower the cost of livng blah blah blah…..

Oh and actions. Like sending people immediately back to Malaysia on the 3245 “solution” and setting up the Pacific solution “again” well sort of…just doing it worse. Admitting to pull factors they created….

I love your style blind Freddy.

I would say watching Labor these last four years has been instructive enough as to why they where out of power for a decade plus before that. Shameful.

Mankind says:

02:29pm | 15/08/11

I like the way you rant about spin whilst changing topic and then making claims that Tony was talking about “balance” when he said nothing about balance what so ever.

Sorry who’s the drip?

Against the Man says:

04:19pm | 15/08/11

Oh my, Seano the ALP idiot and born loser…...........did anyone believe he would last the distance or did the ALP give him the sack?

lordy says:

05:17pm | 15/08/11

Err.. what is the Liberal Party policy on climate change. Will anyone have to pay a price on carbon and who would that be Deena. Are you suggesting Abbott actually knew what he’s saying in regards to farmers/miners?
You do realise on the first day of the election campaign Tony Abbott said he opposed a price on carbon.
However, he changed his mind just 24 hours later.
Also, in his book The battlelines, Abbott said the following: ‘The Howard Government (in 2007) proposed an emissions trading scheme because this seemed the best way to obtain the highest emission reduction at the lowest cost.”
On July 2009 in the Australian Abbott said: ” We must vote for ETS”

Even his own Minister said: “We have an Opposition Leader who has in the space of a few months held every possible position on the issue, each one contradicting the position he expressed earlier.”
Anyone defending Abbott is clearly lacking common-sense and intelligence. Wake up Australia, we don’t need another banjo plying tea-party nutter

Damian Parkhill says:

05:49pm | 15/08/11

Amusing ATM you and your efforts to troll me & Seano via sockpuppets like Deena/ZNrenn/Ryan/TimB are truly worthy of a medal for persistence.

I really wish The Punch would just ban you and be over and done with it!

(As a side note unlike Seano I won’t be leaving anytime soon regardless of what efforts you try or threats you make, I’ve dealt with your kind before and it will take a lot more than that to get to me)

As a side note to those that read this sh*t I hate the ALP with as much as passion as I hate the Liberal’s, both are nothing more than right wing parties running both our great country and its people into the ground and highly support the idea that pollies should be held account to what they say.

Of course if that isn’t enough to convince people, they are more than welcome to punch (pun fully intended) my name and the “the punch” into Google and see for themselves that I’m consistent in my beliefs and if that isn’t enough try “Against the man” and The Punch, she/he has been more than a few times called about her sockpuppeting .

Against the Man says:

06:31pm | 15/08/11

Well Seano Parkhill if the only way you can defeat me is by asking the Punch to ban me for promoting a majority point of view I guess you must be as weak and gutless as your hero Juliar.

The funniest thing is that many of the Punch readers have caught you out. Maybe it is because you repeat verbatim your classic lines. I guess you should calm down before you ‘pretend’ to type as someone else, anger isn’t your friend in the IQ department.

But Deena is right about one thing, the desperation in the ALP camp has never been greater. And I’m lovin watching you guys drown in your owngreed and stupidity.

Have the last word (as usual) on me Seano Parkhill, wouldn’t want to worsen your ......errhh…..cerebral issues…...

Damian Parkhill says:

07:11pm | 15/08/11

@ATM

“But Deena is right about one thing, the desperation in the ALP camp has never been greater. And I’m lovin watching you guys drown in your owngreed and stupidity.”

Really? at what point did I ever post my support of the ALP?, -Do- feel free to point it out?

Btw with that classic rabid fanaticism of yours, its little wonder you come across as bat sh*t crazy

Also redirecting blame is 101 for trolls, so nice try

Damian Parkhill says:

08:03pm | 15/08/11

Oh, just to be a ass because I know how you like to link irrelevant stuff when you get cornered.

http://www.news.com.au/national/liberal-backbencher-john-alexander-has-revealed-coalition-will-bring-back-work-choices/story-e6frfkvr-1226115430045

Nice to see workchoices is still alive and kicking, lots of Liberal failure right there!

Kelly G says:

08:11am | 16/08/11

Come off it Seano, we all know you got cut down to seize and have decide to come back as Mr Parkhill. You think we are fools not to see past your same old tricks?

And as for workchoices, it won’t be an issue as people slowly lose their jobs under a Gillard government. My hubby works for blue scope and he will either lose his job or have his hours cut next year, not bad after 15 years of loyal service and the carbon tax.

And it is hilarious that your alter ego is playing the same ‘I don’t support’ labor card’ while praising every Gillard failure!

And you claim to be a teacher? No wonder our educational system is falling apart with clods like you teaching our kids.

Damian Parkhill says:

09:19am | 16/08/11

Ah I see I have yet another to add to the long list of ATM’s sockpuppets!

And I’m a baker in Perth, don’t know where the hell you got teacher from!

Not to mention you’ve -yet- to show where I’ve ever posted my support for the ALP.

Mankind says:

09:24am | 16/08/11

@Kelly

If you think personal attacks from right wing trolls are cutting people down to size instead of cogent argument then I’m not surprised you’re silly enough to blame the carbon tax for your woes. As the price for Carbon will be passed on to consumers the claim that there will be job losses at Blue Scope because of the tax is bogus and obviously transparent.

PS. Damian isn’t Seano. Your obssession is sad but amusing.

Kelly G says:

10:51am | 16/08/11

Mankind, Seano/Parkhill, keep playing your silly games. The majority of this country is going to blame the carbon tax for many things.

The employment changes are directly linked to the announcement of the carbon tax.

The PM promised no carbon tax and now she and her minority supporters want to change the rules of the game for their own benefit.
You guys can’t win because minority view points won’t get anyway in a democracy.

And if you consider my comments as attacks than Mankind you should join Seano/Damian Parkhill in the ‘grow some balls’ department!

Mankind says:

12:03pm | 16/08/11

“The employment changes are directly linked to the announcement of the carbon tax. “

How? You’re making it up. Don’t be silly.

“You guys can’t win because minority view points won’t get anyway in a democracy.”

We’ll win whilst ever loons think that personally attacking people in order to shut them up is an expression of democratic freedom.

Against the Man says:

01:32pm | 16/08/11

Mankind congratulations! You have tied with Seano Parkhill as the ALP’s greatest loser supporters!

And also well done for being Seano Parkhill’s personal sock-puppet. Does he have a warm hand?

Seano now a baker HaHaHaHaHa priceless, I knew you couldn’t hold down a job as a teacher based on your er….cerebrel problems

Just remember to wash your hands!

RyaN says:

02:03pm | 16/08/11

@Damian Parkhill: Don’t be like that Damian, I have only ever been nice to you mate, in fact I am pretty sure I have nothing but love for you man!

Mankind says:

02:44pm | 16/08/11

@Against - Are you mentally ill?

@RyaN - At least Against the whatever has the excuse of mental illness. Sad.

RyaN says:

03:44pm | 16/08/11

@Mankind: are you Damian Parkhill? I don’t recall directing my comment at you. I have yet to develop feelings for you.

michael says:

10:07am | 17/08/11

Seano you suck at sock puppets mate.

Mankind says:

12:09pm | 15/08/11

Only an LNP stooge would call those motherhood statements policies.

RyaN says:

12:23pm | 15/08/11

@Mankind: only a complete idiot wouldn’t be able to actually read what is called a “POLICY”. If you don’t like the policies then that is a different matter and since you are an ALP stooge it is a given.
To keep perpetuating the myth that there aren’t polices is laughable and just goes to discredit you further.

Bilbo says:

12:23pm | 15/08/11

They don’t like it RyaN when you prove their “Abbott has no policies” mantra is another Labor LIE.

RyaN says:

01:50pm | 15/08/11

@Bilbo: they lie so much they have become almost pathological about it so they start to believe their own lies.

Mankind says:

02:25pm | 15/08/11

I can see how these vague, empty, detail bereft motherhood statements would appeal to you.

RyaN says:

03:22pm | 15/08/11

@Mankind: policies mate, policies, get it straight! I would be surprised if you have actually read even one of them before making baseless claims.

Its ok mate, we know Julia is a liar and a real embarrassment, we know that you are ashamed of your party, its ok, we won’t hold it against you mate.

Against the Man says:

03:25pm | 15/08/11

@ Mankind - Ah wonderful to see one of the ALP blobs at it again. Well as you are part of the minority I suggest you keep up the barking and maybe we will find a nice new owner for you, heard Latham is looking for something of the inbred mutt variety.

Mankind says:

06:12pm | 15/08/11

@RyaN - yopu couldn’t possible frame legislation of these propoganda statements. You can pretend that their still policies if it makes you feel better.

@Against the Man - “Ah wonderful to see one of the ALP blobs at it again”.

You either have an excellent sense of irony or a bad case of self delusion.

RyaN says:

01:54pm | 16/08/11

@Mankind: It is understandable that you lefties wouldn’t possibly be able to understand a policy that isn’t based on blatant lies and billions upon billions of wasted taxpayer dollars.

Mankind says:

08:23pm | 16/08/11

@Ryan and fantasy seems to be the central tenant of your idealogy…the fantasy you can just say crap like “billions” and “waste” and it means something. Here’s a tip, just because you say it doesn’t make it true.

The fantasy that a bunch of vaguely written documents represents policy.

Sad.

Michael says:

12:16pm | 15/08/11

Ironic(al)

* (al) for labor party people, can you spell Albanese?

BannedRightWingNutJob says:

12:24pm | 15/08/11

I agree. Look at Jooliar’s achievments. Houses burning down thru pink batts, electricians killed, school halls that can’t fit in all their students, grocerywatch, fuelwatch, no child in poverty, the homeless housed before illegal economic aliens, the peoples assembly to decide a CO2 tax, there will be no carbon tax under a govt I lead - her promises are sacrosanct. She’d never lie or break a promise to us. She is a national icon. She is the best female PM we have ever had !!!!!

MarK says:

12:40pm | 15/08/11

What is “ment”?

Is it like lent with more meat?

Paddy says:

01:02pm | 15/08/11

I agree Brian
People should realise there is no U in Labor Pardy only factions.

Max Redlands says:

05:50pm | 15/08/11

@ Brian re Labour / Labor.

Well mea culpa on that point.

Old habits die hard. It was Labour for a long time and I resist the Americanization of our langauge/spelling.

When did they change from Labour to Labor? It would be highly symbolic if it was the same time they stopped being the party of the workers and became the party of self-interested Union officals.

iansand says:

06:53pm | 15/08/11

They never changed from Labour to Labor.

MarK says:

09:08pm | 15/08/11

Labour = Britain

Labor = Australia

vis political party naming. Always has been.

Martin says:

11:45am | 16/08/11

Sorry, chaps, these are the facts regarding the Labor party. The party was in fact known as the “Labour” party until 1912 when it was decided to change the name to the Labor party.

BannedRightWingNutJob says:

12:47pm | 15/08/11

Jooliar Gullible aka the liar, is a puppet of Billy-Bob Brown, his very own little miss muppet !!!!! She can’t rule without the support of Oakeshott, Windsor or Wilkie. She is a friggen fraud who should resign for the good of the country. Her election will go down in history as a day of infamy to quote a US president.

billy says:

01:56pm | 15/08/11

BannedRightWingNutJob,

Labor may lose the next election but Abbott will never be PM. The Liberal part will never risk it. Can you imagine before Abbott announces a policy, Alan Jones will first need to appove of it.

Ask Abbott why the need for a “Direct Action Plan” he will never answer that question. He is a fake.

ibast says:

02:46pm | 15/08/11

“Labor may lose the next election but Abbott will never be PM. The Liberal part will never risk it.”

I’d like to think it so, but Howard was Jones’ puppet and look how long he was Prime Minister.  The only development is that Jones has become more rabid with age and has had to up the nutter dial on his puppet to match.

The other difference is that it looks like Jones will have to work the mouth on this one, not just the arms and legs.

majority says:

02:49pm | 15/08/11

MarK,

in the previous article (Monkton) Mal clearly didn’t understand what the term Sovereign Risk meant, or he was deliberately mis-using the phrase. My guess would be didn’t know what it meant.

MarK says:

03:57pm | 15/08/11

Oh he went further than that and had a nice rant fest on twitter.

Our Mal is quite the twitter user thingy….a twit?

Be nice for him to fess up and use the same rule set for judging people but he seems to keep his abuse for Lords of the realm and politicians that dare to take a holiday. Terrible isn’t it.

I do so love all this social media crap. It catches the staff out all the time. Very informative just to keep an eye on the feed on this page.

Why we need to see what these guys ate or with who or juvenile calls for some woman to tweet in 2011 is beyond me but whatever I guess. It is the little gems like Farr re-tweeting Turnbulls irresponsible act of publically putting a phone number of a voter that happened to take umbrage with him that gives me a giggle.

Priceless some of this stuff.

jf says:

04:22pm | 15/08/11

Ho ho ho. So, care to mention one lie that Abbott has told.

James Hunter says:

05:12pm | 15/08/11

I am confused by the plethora of choice

jf says:

05:57pm | 15/08/11

James Hunter says:05:12pm | 15/08/11

“I am confused by the plethora of choice”

No, no I said Abbott not Gillard (carbon tax, budget surplus, refugees etc etc).

Just one James.

MarK says:

06:29pm | 15/08/11

So in other words no eh James.

lordy says:

04:50pm | 15/08/11

Oh dear Ryan, is the Bolt blog finished for the day? Never mind, maybe you can fetch the pitch-forks and shovels from the shed and shout out loud, with your cousins, tony..tony..tony..tony..

RyaN says:

02:33pm | 16/08/11

@lordy: never really thought of it, is that a regular day out for you and yours?

lordy says:

04:44pm | 15/08/11

Don’t worry, it’s only the Australian version of tea-party who are promoting this. As you’ve noticed, inbreeding creates irrational thinking.

Splash the cash says:

06:20pm | 15/08/11

Lordy,
It is called the Convoy of No Confidence, and they are a coming.to Canberra.
You Should be reminded that in a democracy, whether you are right or wrong the Majority Rules
Call them what you like Buddy,
but the Majority are going to start to flex its Muscle.

Splash the cash says:

07:57pm | 15/08/11

Holly.
What about the chances of becoming P.M are like playing Full forward for the Bulldogs, or There will be no carbon tax under the Govt. i will lead.,Or the Malaysian deal will stop the boats
             
                      Now let the Head Nodding begin.

Jim says:

10:02pm | 15/08/11

Good golly Holly…you do watch too much ABC don’t you!

Abbott said last week that farmers should have the right to block mining on their land. Bob Brown jumped on that and said it should be legislated to be so. Abbott said no, we don’t support the greens. He never changed his stance.

Your impression of his weather-vaning on this is a false one…the Labor goons are jumping up and down about it to mask the story about their central coast MP’s antics, as Labor tend to do. You are all just like little kids.

MarK says:

08:45pm | 15/08/11

No thanks.

I am perfectly fine and calm.

You however seem to have some issues. Are you mad sis? Or just a little cranky? I certainly seem to have got to you. You have nothing to actually counter any of my arguments obviously but you are worried about my imaginary heart condition. I find this sort of funny. And by funny I mean pathetic

Telling others to get a life on the interwebz is a bit self defeating.

Still you seem a nice girl so all the best to you honey and thanks for your concern. If I worry you that much don’t read me dear. Self censorship works for a lot of the lefties on this blog. Just peak at me like they do and gnash your teeth privately. It is hilarious actually when they give the game away and reply after “not reading me” again.

Toodles. Off to relax. Don’t want to strain a gasket

PTom says:

09:06pm | 15/08/11

So why won’t abbott support the greens bill on protecting farm land
or is it he does not really care.

Mining royalties belong to the states wasn’t it recently WA increased the royalties.

Cate P says:

10:51am | 16/08/11

... and you’ll still hear the echoes round the empty space when the full caucus is there.